Does he actually like me as a person or is he only interested in sex (29 yr old girl w/no experience)?
March 4, 2010 9:10 AM Subscribe
Does he actually like me as a person or is he only interested in sex (29 yr old woman w/no experience)?
I'm a 29 yr old woman currently in bschool. Due to various circumstances, I have zero relationship experience (have never had a bf, never made out w/a guy, never kissed a guy and never had sex). I'm attractive, but I've never been boy crazy and I'm very focused on my career and before entering bschool, I've been working FT and going to school PT ever since I graduated from college (I switched careers and I also like learning new things). So my work and school schedule leaves little time for relationships. I dated a bit, but have never last more than one date. Sometime it's b/c I didn't feel chemistry with the guy and didn't want to see him anymore and sometimes it's b/c the guy didn't want to see me anymore. But I never really obsessed over any one guy.
Enter grad school, although at this point I would like to have a relationship, I wasn't super focused on it. My main focus was still on my career since that's what I entered bschool for. But I met this guy at school who's a year ahead of me. Turns out he's 27. As a 2nd year, he's only 3 months away from graduation and already has a FT offer in hand. He asked me out the 2nd time he met me at a school function. I was really excited b/c he seems like a genuinely nice guy and really cute.
So we went out for drinks, the conversation flowed naturally and easily. I can't say what it is, but on that date, I felt sth. with this guy that I never felt with any other guy before. At the end of the date, he asked when can he sees me again and we set a date to see each other again 3 days later. Then I was prepared to say good-bye. Suddenly he grabbed my hand and said that he doesn't want me to go. He says that he wants me to stay with him. Then he pulled me close to him and hugged me really close. I was really surprised at this since I expected to say good-night and then leave. Besides, we already set up a time to see each other again. My heart was beating super fast and I really didn't know what to expect or what to do at that point since I have never encountered a situation like this before. Then he started to lean very close to my face and nibble up and down my neck. This went on for a while, when he started to get more aggressive, I got nervous and pulled back. Then he stopped and asked me what's wrong. So I told him that I don't have a lot of experience and I want to take things slow. He then told me that he just got out of a serious relationship and want sth. casual right now. I thought that was understandable given the situation and besides, you can't come out and say this is a L-T relationship on the first date, right?
Anyway, the 2nd date went well. At the end, he asks me if I want to come up to his place. I thought this means he wants sex. Sex on the 2nd date is way too fast, so I said that I didn't want to go up. He asked me why. I told him he won't behave very gentlemanly so I'm not going to go to his place. He promised to behave and said that if I felt uncomfortable just let him know and he'll stop. He said he really wanted to show me the view from his place (His place does have a really nice view). So I went up to his place. We were chili'in, then he asked if he could kiss me. I said yes. I thought the first kiss is going to be sweet and tender, I totally didn't expect he was trying to French kiss me from get-go. I got caught up in the excitement of moment and we started fooling around. We both have our clothes on, but we were seriously making out for hours. Around dinnertime I told him I was hungry and want to get sth. to eat, he doesn't want to stop and said we'll get sth. later. It turns out that we didn't stop until 8pm when he has to go somewhere with his friends and then he said he doesn't have time. He sensed I was unhappy about this, so he kissed me, smiled and said next time we'll grab food first, but that means I'll have to see him again. Earlier when we were fooling around, I was feeling conflicted and confused, on the one hand, this is the first guy that I really really liked and felt we had a connection with, on the other hand, I never thought things would happen so fast. I told him that I've never done anything of the sort with any guy before, he said he could then understand why I was upset at what happened on our first date. All this time, he was complimenting me, saying I have "pretty eyes", how hot I looked and he was really turned on by me. But I was really upset when we somehow ventured into discussing the "casual" thing. I asked him what if I found another guy who's interested in a relationship and I have to stop seeing him. He said to go right ahead and see other guys, maybe I didn't find another guy, I just got bored with him. I was so upset that he can just say stuff like that without blinking his eyes like it's no big deal that I almost stormed out.
So then we scheduled a time to talk. After thinking through, I told him that we need to stop seeing each other b/c I didn't want to get emotionally attached to him if it's a "casual" relationship. I'm already feeling more emotionally attached then I thought I would and I don't want to get hurt. He said he understand. So I thought everything ended on a good note and we'll just be friends from then on.
Turns out I saw him next day in school, which is odd b/c I don't see him around school that much due to our different class schedules. I didn't talk or look at him, but I know that while he was talking to a friend who was sitting next to him, he was stealing glances at me every couple of seconds.
Fast forward to couple of days later. He initiated a chat w/me on Facebook. We never chatted on FB before since we've never been online at the same time. We had a nice chat, I was going to a school party later. He said he's not going to the party, so I ended the chat when I had to go. Turns out he suddenly appeared at the party two hours later. I was very surprised to see him there. He was introducing me to all the 2nd years that I didn't know before. When I asked him why did he come, he said that he was inspired to come see me at the party. We had a nice time, and went to an after-party together. Then he told me he was hungry and if I would accompany him to grab sth. to eat afterwards, I said yes. After we ate, I again thought we'd part our ways, but he grabbed me and kissed me and said that he doesn't want me to leave b/c otherwise it meant to never see me again. I was like, aren't we just friends now? He's like if you got sth., tell me. I was really confused at this point. So I told him about this "casual" thing and I'm not okay with him fooling around multiple girls while he sees me. I can understand that people going to see other people like having dinner and stuff at the beginning of a relationship while it's still undefined, but not physical intimate with multiple people at the same time. He said he doesn't need to fool around w/multiple girls. So we came to an agreement where if either one of us were to get physically intimate with another person, we'll let the other person know first. He keep wanting me to go back to his place, and I keep telling him no. This went on for an hour until I got worn down by his persistence. When we get to his place, he started gently caressing and kissing me. When I tell him to stop b/c I felt too excited, he does stop. That makes me feel safe knowing he'd stop if I ask him to and he's very gentle with me this time, unlike the first two times when it was all hot and heavy. I ended up having sex with him, part of the reason is that I didn't want to become a 30+ virgin, but part of the reason is that I wanted to do it with someone whom I felt strongly about, gentle and skilled. When we were in the act, it hurts so much, he actually stopped and asked me if I was sure that I wanted to continue. Afterwards he was really surprised at my enthusiasm and that I was much better than he expected in bed. lol. He also said he's sorry that it hurt me so much.
He called me to say hi the next day, but it was so late that I didn't return his call. He called me twice the day after that wanting to talk. When we finally had a chance to talk that night, we had a really nice long conversation. I told him that I can't see him for two weeks b/c we have finals coming up and I need to study. He said he wanted to see me again, and I was like I don't want to come to your place. He said he wants to have coffee and just chat with me. He doesn't believe that I can't even spare the time to have coffee with him. So I relented and we arranged to visit a museum close to campus a week later. The date went well, but at the end, he wants me to go to his place again. I was like no. He said you got to hang out in order for relationships to develope, what if I met someone during this two three weeks time when I don't get a chance to see you at all? I was still like I already agreed to see you for coffee, no, I'm not going to your place. Then he's like how can I persuade you to change your mind? He started kissing me and nibble on my neck. I kept saying no for over an hour and I got worn down again by his insistence. But I felt terrible and so angry, he sensed my anger and kept asking me if I was going to come. I txted him an hour later telling him I wouldn't come and I felt he was being disrespectful. He txted back saying he's sorry and he understand and he wanted to talk about it. I didn't reply. He then called me multiple times and left me a voicemail. When I called him back, he apologized and said he understand and wouldn't talk about this during finals time. So we agreed to see each other after finals are over.
So we've been talking on the phone and chatting on FB for couple of days. The thing is, we have really long nice talks everytime. He tells me about his family, his long-term career goals, how his day has been, his previous relationships. He told me that his ex-GF was a 2nd year girl, they dated for over a year and it got super serious at the end. But he realized that she wasn't the right person for him in a forever sense, so he let her know as soon as he realized that. He says they broke up around New Years and are still in the adjustment phase. I know his ex too and she's my FB friend too. I checked and they are not FB friends. He told me on FB that he doesn't chase girls but he has a big crush on me. I told me that I felt his crush is more of the carnal kind. He said it wasn't true. His favorite things about me is that I challenge him intellectually.
This is what I don't get, I've been feeling conflicted about this "relationship" since day one. On the one hand, our conversations flow so naturally, I never felt a stronger chemistry with anyone else before, physically or mentally. And I do feel that he's telling me the truth when he says that I challenge him intellectually. On the other hand, I felt that he doesn't care about me as a person at all, he only wants sex b/c he pushes me to go to his place everytime and fool around with him.
My friends say that we're currently in a fwb relationship, esp. since he told me he's going abroad for two months after graduation and he told me that he doesn't want to get emotionally attached before the trip. But if you want a fwb type relationship, wouldn't it be easier to seek out someone you already know rather than ask out a new girl? and why would he tell me all about his family, long term goals, etc. and keep wanting to talk to me on the phone and on FB if all he wants is sex? But if he's interested in me as a person, then why isn't he even open to the possibility of a relationship later on? Why was he so physically aggressive early on knowing I don't have relationship experience?
I actually ended things with him again b/c I felt the "relationship" is going nowhere and I want to concentrate on my classes and my career. This time I no longer see him on FB anymore and I haven't seen him around campus for days. So I guess it's for real this time. But since I lack dating experience, I really wanted to hear from the readers here their thoughts on this guy. What'd be your answer to my questions?
Thanks!
I'm a 29 yr old woman currently in bschool. Due to various circumstances, I have zero relationship experience (have never had a bf, never made out w/a guy, never kissed a guy and never had sex). I'm attractive, but I've never been boy crazy and I'm very focused on my career and before entering bschool, I've been working FT and going to school PT ever since I graduated from college (I switched careers and I also like learning new things). So my work and school schedule leaves little time for relationships. I dated a bit, but have never last more than one date. Sometime it's b/c I didn't feel chemistry with the guy and didn't want to see him anymore and sometimes it's b/c the guy didn't want to see me anymore. But I never really obsessed over any one guy.
Enter grad school, although at this point I would like to have a relationship, I wasn't super focused on it. My main focus was still on my career since that's what I entered bschool for. But I met this guy at school who's a year ahead of me. Turns out he's 27. As a 2nd year, he's only 3 months away from graduation and already has a FT offer in hand. He asked me out the 2nd time he met me at a school function. I was really excited b/c he seems like a genuinely nice guy and really cute.
So we went out for drinks, the conversation flowed naturally and easily. I can't say what it is, but on that date, I felt sth. with this guy that I never felt with any other guy before. At the end of the date, he asked when can he sees me again and we set a date to see each other again 3 days later. Then I was prepared to say good-bye. Suddenly he grabbed my hand and said that he doesn't want me to go. He says that he wants me to stay with him. Then he pulled me close to him and hugged me really close. I was really surprised at this since I expected to say good-night and then leave. Besides, we already set up a time to see each other again. My heart was beating super fast and I really didn't know what to expect or what to do at that point since I have never encountered a situation like this before. Then he started to lean very close to my face and nibble up and down my neck. This went on for a while, when he started to get more aggressive, I got nervous and pulled back. Then he stopped and asked me what's wrong. So I told him that I don't have a lot of experience and I want to take things slow. He then told me that he just got out of a serious relationship and want sth. casual right now. I thought that was understandable given the situation and besides, you can't come out and say this is a L-T relationship on the first date, right?
Anyway, the 2nd date went well. At the end, he asks me if I want to come up to his place. I thought this means he wants sex. Sex on the 2nd date is way too fast, so I said that I didn't want to go up. He asked me why. I told him he won't behave very gentlemanly so I'm not going to go to his place. He promised to behave and said that if I felt uncomfortable just let him know and he'll stop. He said he really wanted to show me the view from his place (His place does have a really nice view). So I went up to his place. We were chili'in, then he asked if he could kiss me. I said yes. I thought the first kiss is going to be sweet and tender, I totally didn't expect he was trying to French kiss me from get-go. I got caught up in the excitement of moment and we started fooling around. We both have our clothes on, but we were seriously making out for hours. Around dinnertime I told him I was hungry and want to get sth. to eat, he doesn't want to stop and said we'll get sth. later. It turns out that we didn't stop until 8pm when he has to go somewhere with his friends and then he said he doesn't have time. He sensed I was unhappy about this, so he kissed me, smiled and said next time we'll grab food first, but that means I'll have to see him again. Earlier when we were fooling around, I was feeling conflicted and confused, on the one hand, this is the first guy that I really really liked and felt we had a connection with, on the other hand, I never thought things would happen so fast. I told him that I've never done anything of the sort with any guy before, he said he could then understand why I was upset at what happened on our first date. All this time, he was complimenting me, saying I have "pretty eyes", how hot I looked and he was really turned on by me. But I was really upset when we somehow ventured into discussing the "casual" thing. I asked him what if I found another guy who's interested in a relationship and I have to stop seeing him. He said to go right ahead and see other guys, maybe I didn't find another guy, I just got bored with him. I was so upset that he can just say stuff like that without blinking his eyes like it's no big deal that I almost stormed out.
So then we scheduled a time to talk. After thinking through, I told him that we need to stop seeing each other b/c I didn't want to get emotionally attached to him if it's a "casual" relationship. I'm already feeling more emotionally attached then I thought I would and I don't want to get hurt. He said he understand. So I thought everything ended on a good note and we'll just be friends from then on.
Turns out I saw him next day in school, which is odd b/c I don't see him around school that much due to our different class schedules. I didn't talk or look at him, but I know that while he was talking to a friend who was sitting next to him, he was stealing glances at me every couple of seconds.
Fast forward to couple of days later. He initiated a chat w/me on Facebook. We never chatted on FB before since we've never been online at the same time. We had a nice chat, I was going to a school party later. He said he's not going to the party, so I ended the chat when I had to go. Turns out he suddenly appeared at the party two hours later. I was very surprised to see him there. He was introducing me to all the 2nd years that I didn't know before. When I asked him why did he come, he said that he was inspired to come see me at the party. We had a nice time, and went to an after-party together. Then he told me he was hungry and if I would accompany him to grab sth. to eat afterwards, I said yes. After we ate, I again thought we'd part our ways, but he grabbed me and kissed me and said that he doesn't want me to leave b/c otherwise it meant to never see me again. I was like, aren't we just friends now? He's like if you got sth., tell me. I was really confused at this point. So I told him about this "casual" thing and I'm not okay with him fooling around multiple girls while he sees me. I can understand that people going to see other people like having dinner and stuff at the beginning of a relationship while it's still undefined, but not physical intimate with multiple people at the same time. He said he doesn't need to fool around w/multiple girls. So we came to an agreement where if either one of us were to get physically intimate with another person, we'll let the other person know first. He keep wanting me to go back to his place, and I keep telling him no. This went on for an hour until I got worn down by his persistence. When we get to his place, he started gently caressing and kissing me. When I tell him to stop b/c I felt too excited, he does stop. That makes me feel safe knowing he'd stop if I ask him to and he's very gentle with me this time, unlike the first two times when it was all hot and heavy. I ended up having sex with him, part of the reason is that I didn't want to become a 30+ virgin, but part of the reason is that I wanted to do it with someone whom I felt strongly about, gentle and skilled. When we were in the act, it hurts so much, he actually stopped and asked me if I was sure that I wanted to continue. Afterwards he was really surprised at my enthusiasm and that I was much better than he expected in bed. lol. He also said he's sorry that it hurt me so much.
He called me to say hi the next day, but it was so late that I didn't return his call. He called me twice the day after that wanting to talk. When we finally had a chance to talk that night, we had a really nice long conversation. I told him that I can't see him for two weeks b/c we have finals coming up and I need to study. He said he wanted to see me again, and I was like I don't want to come to your place. He said he wants to have coffee and just chat with me. He doesn't believe that I can't even spare the time to have coffee with him. So I relented and we arranged to visit a museum close to campus a week later. The date went well, but at the end, he wants me to go to his place again. I was like no. He said you got to hang out in order for relationships to develope, what if I met someone during this two three weeks time when I don't get a chance to see you at all? I was still like I already agreed to see you for coffee, no, I'm not going to your place. Then he's like how can I persuade you to change your mind? He started kissing me and nibble on my neck. I kept saying no for over an hour and I got worn down again by his insistence. But I felt terrible and so angry, he sensed my anger and kept asking me if I was going to come. I txted him an hour later telling him I wouldn't come and I felt he was being disrespectful. He txted back saying he's sorry and he understand and he wanted to talk about it. I didn't reply. He then called me multiple times and left me a voicemail. When I called him back, he apologized and said he understand and wouldn't talk about this during finals time. So we agreed to see each other after finals are over.
So we've been talking on the phone and chatting on FB for couple of days. The thing is, we have really long nice talks everytime. He tells me about his family, his long-term career goals, how his day has been, his previous relationships. He told me that his ex-GF was a 2nd year girl, they dated for over a year and it got super serious at the end. But he realized that she wasn't the right person for him in a forever sense, so he let her know as soon as he realized that. He says they broke up around New Years and are still in the adjustment phase. I know his ex too and she's my FB friend too. I checked and they are not FB friends. He told me on FB that he doesn't chase girls but he has a big crush on me. I told me that I felt his crush is more of the carnal kind. He said it wasn't true. His favorite things about me is that I challenge him intellectually.
This is what I don't get, I've been feeling conflicted about this "relationship" since day one. On the one hand, our conversations flow so naturally, I never felt a stronger chemistry with anyone else before, physically or mentally. And I do feel that he's telling me the truth when he says that I challenge him intellectually. On the other hand, I felt that he doesn't care about me as a person at all, he only wants sex b/c he pushes me to go to his place everytime and fool around with him.
My friends say that we're currently in a fwb relationship, esp. since he told me he's going abroad for two months after graduation and he told me that he doesn't want to get emotionally attached before the trip. But if you want a fwb type relationship, wouldn't it be easier to seek out someone you already know rather than ask out a new girl? and why would he tell me all about his family, long term goals, etc. and keep wanting to talk to me on the phone and on FB if all he wants is sex? But if he's interested in me as a person, then why isn't he even open to the possibility of a relationship later on? Why was he so physically aggressive early on knowing I don't have relationship experience?
I actually ended things with him again b/c I felt the "relationship" is going nowhere and I want to concentrate on my classes and my career. This time I no longer see him on FB anymore and I haven't seen him around campus for days. So I guess it's for real this time. But since I lack dating experience, I really wanted to hear from the readers here their thoughts on this guy. What'd be your answer to my questions?
Thanks!
To the question in the title, I think the answer is yes.
Yes, he likes you as a person. Yes, he's only interested in sex. He keeps telling you this!
You can like and respect someone as a person, not want to get into a romantic relationship with them, and still want to sleep with them. Hell, that describes my feelings about half of my friends. (I don't actually sleep with my friends as a rule, but I find lots of them quite attractive.)
It does sound like you made the right call - y'all just aren't on the same page about what you want out of your interactions, and he's moving much too fast for you. But that doesn't mean he doesn't care about you or that he's a bad person. You're just in very different places.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:21 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Yes, he likes you as a person. Yes, he's only interested in sex. He keeps telling you this!
You can like and respect someone as a person, not want to get into a romantic relationship with them, and still want to sleep with them. Hell, that describes my feelings about half of my friends. (I don't actually sleep with my friends as a rule, but I find lots of them quite attractive.)
It does sound like you made the right call - y'all just aren't on the same page about what you want out of your interactions, and he's moving much too fast for you. But that doesn't mean he doesn't care about you or that he's a bad person. You're just in very different places.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:21 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
It sounds like both, liking you as a person and wanting to have sex with you are not mutually exclusive.
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 9:22 AM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 9:22 AM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Wow, this was a lot to wade through (particularly with the word abbreviations, which I found confusing). Here are my thoughts: this guy was honest with you from the beginning. He did not/does not want a full-on relationship with you, he just wants to "hang out" and fool around and whatever. You do not want that. That is OK. That said, it seems like you set up your interactions with this guy as very negative from the beginning- he kisses you and you lean away, you describe his wanting to be intimate with you as "un-gentlemanly" and "disrespectful"- and yet, you still go out with him. I sense you're trying to make him earn your love so you can feel OK about the physical side of your relationship, and I don't think it's going to work out well at all. He already said he's not interested in a serious relationship, no amount of back-and-forth is going to change that. I think it's good that you chose to end the relationship with this guy. I think next time you date someone, you should listen to their words and their behavior to figure out what they're looking for. How you feel about someone has nothing to do with what they want or what they can give you.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:24 AM on March 4, 2010 [16 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:24 AM on March 4, 2010 [16 favorites]
Your friends are right. It's FWB. He doesn't feel anything more for you but really enjoys the physical part, and would keep on doing that if you'd let him.
Or, maybe he's just much hornier than you. Either way, it makes you uncomfortable, so you're right to break it off. You don't have much experience but yeah, know that this kind of thing happens all the time between people.
posted by Melismata at 9:25 AM on March 4, 2010
Or, maybe he's just much hornier than you. Either way, it makes you uncomfortable, so you're right to break it off. You don't have much experience but yeah, know that this kind of thing happens all the time between people.
posted by Melismata at 9:25 AM on March 4, 2010
Whatever deep connection two people may have, some guys will never be satisfied with a relationship unless there is sex involved. So his persistent desire for sex does not mean he is not interested in other aspects of you ... Sex early in a relationship is so universal that, for better or worse, a lot of guys feel like there must be something wrong with them if a woman is not agreeing to sex early on.
So, bottom line, don't assume he's not interested in the "whole you" just because he's pushy about sex. But refusal to have sex with him may rule you out as a potential girlfriend for him.
At the same time, if he's pushy about sex and you're not comfortable with how fast things are moving, it seems like he's not a good match for you, either.
posted by jayder at 9:26 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
So, bottom line, don't assume he's not interested in the "whole you" just because he's pushy about sex. But refusal to have sex with him may rule you out as a potential girlfriend for him.
At the same time, if he's pushy about sex and you're not comfortable with how fast things are moving, it seems like he's not a good match for you, either.
posted by jayder at 9:26 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I read the whole thing. I thing the answer is simple. He likes you as a person for sure. He sees you as a challenge and he likes sex. I think in another time or place this could work out well, but you both seem to have hurdles right now. He just go out of a relationship and is going abroad. You are focused on school and finding the right relationship in the proper format. This could work if you would both let it, Otherwise, try to meet someone else.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:28 AM on March 4, 2010
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:28 AM on March 4, 2010
Sorry for jumping the gun with my earlier post. I've read the rest of it now and I see you already had sex with him. So I agree with most of the others here -- go ahead and break it off.
posted by pete_22 at 9:28 AM on March 4, 2010
posted by pete_22 at 9:28 AM on March 4, 2010
Ugh. I respectfully disagree with restless_nomad; to me, a guy who respects you is not a person who would persuade you to go up to his apartment, after you've already said no very clearly, by kissing you and nibbling on your neck. Consent isn't not-saying-no, it's saying (by action or verbally) HELL YES. Put it this way: if you went to a car dealer, checked out a car, was waffling on it, and then saw the salesman give you a wink and slip the car keys in your pocket, does that mean you've consented to buying it? Of course not, and any guy who does that would be charged on a host of charges that law-illiterate-me can enunciate right now. Consenting would mean actively saying YES I WANT IT and going with him to fill out the paperwork and crap.
OP, he clearly likes you on some level. Okay, you stimulate him intellectually. He finds you attractive. All good things. But he's been honest from the start: he's said I DON'T WANT A RELATIONSHIP, I WANT SOMETHING CASUAL. Don't bother trying to read into it with the whole "he tells me things about himself!" Doesn't matter. He's already clearly spelled out what he wants, and it doesn't seem to coincide with what you want.
It's that he keeps 'persuading you' and not understanding that 'no means no' that sets off my alarms. I was on his side until he kept 'persuading' you. He was upfront with what he wants, and you seem to be pretty damn clear on 'I don't want to move so fast' part. But the fact that he keeps pushing doesn't speak well of his character to me at all.
posted by Hakaisha at 9:29 AM on March 4, 2010 [13 favorites]
OP, he clearly likes you on some level. Okay, you stimulate him intellectually. He finds you attractive. All good things. But he's been honest from the start: he's said I DON'T WANT A RELATIONSHIP, I WANT SOMETHING CASUAL. Don't bother trying to read into it with the whole "he tells me things about himself!" Doesn't matter. He's already clearly spelled out what he wants, and it doesn't seem to coincide with what you want.
It's that he keeps 'persuading you' and not understanding that 'no means no' that sets off my alarms. I was on his side until he kept 'persuading' you. He was upfront with what he wants, and you seem to be pretty damn clear on 'I don't want to move so fast' part. But the fact that he keeps pushing doesn't speak well of his character to me at all.
posted by Hakaisha at 9:29 AM on March 4, 2010 [13 favorites]
There is way too much detail here.
You're overanalyzing this because of your inexperience.
All we have to know is:
- You had a few sexually charged encounters, but they don't seem to be leading to anything that you're happy with.
- You repeatedly felt uncomfortable around him. You directly communicated your discomfort to him but you kept feeling uncomfortable around him.
- You talked openly about your relationship goals (or lack thereof) and you didn't feel that the two of you were on the same page.
- Recently the two of you seem to have dropped off contact.
Unless you're exaggerating the negative points as some kind of defense mechanism, it sounds like the two of you just aren't compatible, and that's that. Happens all the time. You can move on with your ilfe.
However, considering how intensely the experience seems to have affected you, I would gently suggest that you're using being "busy" as a defense mechanism against developing relationships. If you don't want to be in a relationship or even do any dating or kissing or anything, I'm not criticizing that. But please admit that it's a choice based on not wanting to do those things. You haven't been so busy with work and school up to age 29 that you've been unable to do any dating. Everyone's always "too busy" for the things they don't want to do. We make time for the things we value the most.
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:30 AM on March 4, 2010 [22 favorites]
You're overanalyzing this because of your inexperience.
All we have to know is:
- You had a few sexually charged encounters, but they don't seem to be leading to anything that you're happy with.
- You repeatedly felt uncomfortable around him. You directly communicated your discomfort to him but you kept feeling uncomfortable around him.
- You talked openly about your relationship goals (or lack thereof) and you didn't feel that the two of you were on the same page.
- Recently the two of you seem to have dropped off contact.
Unless you're exaggerating the negative points as some kind of defense mechanism, it sounds like the two of you just aren't compatible, and that's that. Happens all the time. You can move on with your ilfe.
However, considering how intensely the experience seems to have affected you, I would gently suggest that you're using being "busy" as a defense mechanism against developing relationships. If you don't want to be in a relationship or even do any dating or kissing or anything, I'm not criticizing that. But please admit that it's a choice based on not wanting to do those things. You haven't been so busy with work and school up to age 29 that you've been unable to do any dating. Everyone's always "too busy" for the things they don't want to do. We make time for the things we value the most.
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:30 AM on March 4, 2010 [22 favorites]
He can be interested in her as a person and still be a flaming dickwad - I wasn't trying to address that side of it.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:32 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad at 9:32 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
sex is just not THIS big a deal, and the sooner you get over these hangups, the sooner you'll be able to find a healthy relationship
Sex is this big a deal to some people, and that is not a hangup. That's normal. For someone who doesn't naturally separate emotion from sex, the way to find a healthy relationship is not to just "get over" how they feel and go around having sex with whoever. It's to accept it and find someone who is on the same page.
To the OP: It sounds like he likes you as a person, AND is only interested in sex. Someone can like you as a person and be attracted to you, and still not want to be in a relationship with you. I think the main thing is probably responsibility. I think he doesn't want to have any responsibility to you, probably to anyone.
But if you want a fwb type relationship, wouldn't it be easier to seek out someone you already know rather than ask out a new girl?
Not necessarily. A new girl might be more exciting for him.
and why would he tell me all about his family, long term goals, etc. and keep wanting to talk to me on the phone and on FB if all he wants is sex?
Because he enjoys doing that. He wants to have the parts of interacting with you that he enjoys (talking, sex) and not the parts he doesn't enjoy such as having responsibilities to you.
He then told me that he just got out of a serious relationship and want sth. casual right now. I thought that was understandable given the situation and besides, you can't come out and say this is a L-T relationship on the first date, right?
Sure, most people don't decide to be in a serious relationship on the first date, even if they think that there was potential for it to become one in the future. But plenty of people go into even a first date with the understanding that they're both only going to date one person at a time. More importantly, to come right out and say all you want is a casual relationship right now, means you are not hoping it will become something more in the future. When someone tells you all they want is a casual relationship, take them at their word. It's not a good idea to go into it hoping they will want more eventually. That usually doesn't happen.
Bottom line: you'll feel like this again in the future for a different guy. He's not your last chance. I don't think it's a good idea to allow yourself to become emotionally attached to this one.
posted by Ashley801 at 9:34 AM on March 4, 2010 [6 favorites]
Sex is this big a deal to some people, and that is not a hangup. That's normal. For someone who doesn't naturally separate emotion from sex, the way to find a healthy relationship is not to just "get over" how they feel and go around having sex with whoever. It's to accept it and find someone who is on the same page.
To the OP: It sounds like he likes you as a person, AND is only interested in sex. Someone can like you as a person and be attracted to you, and still not want to be in a relationship with you. I think the main thing is probably responsibility. I think he doesn't want to have any responsibility to you, probably to anyone.
But if you want a fwb type relationship, wouldn't it be easier to seek out someone you already know rather than ask out a new girl?
Not necessarily. A new girl might be more exciting for him.
and why would he tell me all about his family, long term goals, etc. and keep wanting to talk to me on the phone and on FB if all he wants is sex?
Because he enjoys doing that. He wants to have the parts of interacting with you that he enjoys (talking, sex) and not the parts he doesn't enjoy such as having responsibilities to you.
He then told me that he just got out of a serious relationship and want sth. casual right now. I thought that was understandable given the situation and besides, you can't come out and say this is a L-T relationship on the first date, right?
Sure, most people don't decide to be in a serious relationship on the first date, even if they think that there was potential for it to become one in the future. But plenty of people go into even a first date with the understanding that they're both only going to date one person at a time. More importantly, to come right out and say all you want is a casual relationship right now, means you are not hoping it will become something more in the future. When someone tells you all they want is a casual relationship, take them at their word. It's not a good idea to go into it hoping they will want more eventually. That usually doesn't happen.
Bottom line: you'll feel like this again in the future for a different guy. He's not your last chance. I don't think it's a good idea to allow yourself to become emotionally attached to this one.
posted by Ashley801 at 9:34 AM on March 4, 2010 [6 favorites]
Good gravy that was a lot of words.
Does he actually like me as a person or is he only interested in sex
The fact that you don't know these things are not necessarily mutually exclusive tells me you have a lots of catching up to do. It's normal for 29 year-olds of both sexes to initiate sex after a couple dates. Also, he was honest with you from the beginning - he said, specifically and in no uncertain terms, that he was looking for something casual. Keep seeing him if you want, keep sleeping with him if you want, but until he says otherwise I think he's been pretty clear.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:34 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Does he actually like me as a person or is he only interested in sex
The fact that you don't know these things are not necessarily mutually exclusive tells me you have a lots of catching up to do. It's normal for 29 year-olds of both sexes to initiate sex after a couple dates. Also, he was honest with you from the beginning - he said, specifically and in no uncertain terms, that he was looking for something casual. Keep seeing him if you want, keep sleeping with him if you want, but until he says otherwise I think he's been pretty clear.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:34 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
i should probably wait for a female mefite to offer this advice because it may sound crude or chauvinist coming from a male poster, but: yes. sleep with him. or someone else, whatever. sex is just not THIS big a deal
Um, I'm a male mefite. It's not necessary to wait for a mefite of the supposedly correct gender to say that the above advice is wrong. Sex is a big deal. For anyone. Sex is especially a big deal for someone who has reached age 29 without so much as kissing let alone doing anything sexual. Please, wcmf, take things as slowly as YOU are comfortable with -- don't be pushed around by some guy just because he's boldly showing an interest in you.
Random thought to the OP: maybe you just aren't attracted to men and you haven't admitted it to yourself? This isn't based on your reaction to this guy (who sounds pretty sleazy), but based on the fact that you seem very uninterested in anything sexual/romantic with men, and this seems to be a lifelong thing for you. If I'm off-base here, please disregard this paragraph.
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:35 AM on March 4, 2010
Um, I'm a male mefite. It's not necessary to wait for a mefite of the supposedly correct gender to say that the above advice is wrong. Sex is a big deal. For anyone. Sex is especially a big deal for someone who has reached age 29 without so much as kissing let alone doing anything sexual. Please, wcmf, take things as slowly as YOU are comfortable with -- don't be pushed around by some guy just because he's boldly showing an interest in you.
Random thought to the OP: maybe you just aren't attracted to men and you haven't admitted it to yourself? This isn't based on your reaction to this guy (who sounds pretty sleazy), but based on the fact that you seem very uninterested in anything sexual/romantic with men, and this seems to be a lifelong thing for you. If I'm off-base here, please disregard this paragraph.
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:35 AM on March 4, 2010
He may be a nice enough guy, but from what you've said he sounds like a poor candidate for a first relationship. There's clearly a huge gap in your levels of experience, and while he may very well have good intentions he's pushing you awfully hard into a relationship that's both sexual and casual in a way that doesn't seem to be working for you.
You were right to be honest and up front with him about your inexperience -- I've been in the lady-version of his situation more than once, and ended up acting like an ass out of ignorance -- and he seems to respect you enough to be frank about his own intentions. But this doesn't sound like an ideal setup for your first romance.
You understandably want to be with a guy who will take things slow, will appreciate you as an individual as well as a sexual partner, and will be open to the possibility of a long-term commitment if things go well. As I said, this man may be very sweet, but he's told you explicitly that he isn't looking for the same things as you, and putting yourself in that kind of situation is unlikely to end happily.
If YOU want to use this as an opportunity to explore your sexuality and enjoy a gentleman's company with few strings attached, then by all means -- have a fantastic time! But don't expect or hope for him to change his mind about what he wants from you.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:36 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
You were right to be honest and up front with him about your inexperience -- I've been in the lady-version of his situation more than once, and ended up acting like an ass out of ignorance -- and he seems to respect you enough to be frank about his own intentions. But this doesn't sound like an ideal setup for your first romance.
You understandably want to be with a guy who will take things slow, will appreciate you as an individual as well as a sexual partner, and will be open to the possibility of a long-term commitment if things go well. As I said, this man may be very sweet, but he's told you explicitly that he isn't looking for the same things as you, and putting yourself in that kind of situation is unlikely to end happily.
If YOU want to use this as an opportunity to explore your sexuality and enjoy a gentleman's company with few strings attached, then by all means -- have a fantastic time! But don't expect or hope for him to change his mind about what he wants from you.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:36 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
But please admit that it's a choice based on not wanting to do those things. You haven't been so busy with work and school up to age 29 that you've been unable to do any dating. Everyone's always "too busy" for the things they don't want to do. We make time for the things we value the most.
This. Seriously. I've made this excuse forever on a number of things in my life. It took a lot of effort on my part to finally face up to things I didn't want to deal with because they were daunting/intimidating/anxiety-provoking. Very few people are naturals at dating (lord knows I'm not). It takes *work*, learning all the little subtleties about interaction, figuring out what others want, and most importantly, figuring out what *you* want (and how to get that!). It can also be terrifying, opening yourself up to others. But you know what? The work is totally worth it, and you'll be a much better person on the other side.
Go out, have fun, be safe, and learn a few things about those around you. And don't forget to have a sense of humor about it - everyone's got battle scars, you need to be able to laugh about 'em.
posted by swngnmonk at 9:39 AM on March 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
This. Seriously. I've made this excuse forever on a number of things in my life. It took a lot of effort on my part to finally face up to things I didn't want to deal with because they were daunting/intimidating/anxiety-provoking. Very few people are naturals at dating (lord knows I'm not). It takes *work*, learning all the little subtleties about interaction, figuring out what others want, and most importantly, figuring out what *you* want (and how to get that!). It can also be terrifying, opening yourself up to others. But you know what? The work is totally worth it, and you'll be a much better person on the other side.
Go out, have fun, be safe, and learn a few things about those around you. And don't forget to have a sense of humor about it - everyone's got battle scars, you need to be able to laugh about 'em.
posted by swngnmonk at 9:39 AM on March 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
He then told me that he just got out of a serious relationship and want sth. casual right now.
Believe what people tell you. It's a waste of your time to second guess people's motives, and especially to put this much thought into why he does what he does. Also, he sounds like a pushy jerk.
posted by desjardins at 9:48 AM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Believe what people tell you. It's a waste of your time to second guess people's motives, and especially to put this much thought into why he does what he does. Also, he sounds like a pushy jerk.
posted by desjardins at 9:48 AM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Sex is this big a deal to some people, and that is not a hangup. That's normal. For someone who doesn't naturally separate emotion from sex, the way to find a healthy relationship is not to just "get over" how they feel and go around having sex with whoever. It's to accept it and find someone who is on the same page.
Um, I'm a male mefite. It's not necessary to wait for a mefite of the supposedly correct gender to say that the above advice is wrong. Sex is a big deal. For anyone. Sex is especially a big deal for someone who has reached age 29 without so much as kissing let alone doing anything sexual. Please, wcmf, take things as slowly as YOU are comfortable with -- don't be pushed around by some guy just because he's boldly showing an interest in you.
Not to get sidetracked but just to briefly reply: I took back my initial response once I read the whole post, and I agree with both of you that this guy sounds like a jerk and she should probably dump him.
However, I didn't say sex is not a big deal. I said it's not THIS big a deal. My initial reply was off base, but I would still say that for someone in her circumstances to wait this long, there is something more going on than just a normal, healthy level of emotional investment in sex. And Jaltcoh, you are (appropriately) registering the same reaction when you suggest that maybe she's not heterosexual. To the OP: whether it's this or something else, please think seriously about why you waited as long as you did. You haven't really explained it in this post.
posted by pete_22 at 9:55 AM on March 4, 2010
Um, I'm a male mefite. It's not necessary to wait for a mefite of the supposedly correct gender to say that the above advice is wrong. Sex is a big deal. For anyone. Sex is especially a big deal for someone who has reached age 29 without so much as kissing let alone doing anything sexual. Please, wcmf, take things as slowly as YOU are comfortable with -- don't be pushed around by some guy just because he's boldly showing an interest in you.
Not to get sidetracked but just to briefly reply: I took back my initial response once I read the whole post, and I agree with both of you that this guy sounds like a jerk and she should probably dump him.
However, I didn't say sex is not a big deal. I said it's not THIS big a deal. My initial reply was off base, but I would still say that for someone in her circumstances to wait this long, there is something more going on than just a normal, healthy level of emotional investment in sex. And Jaltcoh, you are (appropriately) registering the same reaction when you suggest that maybe she's not heterosexual. To the OP: whether it's this or something else, please think seriously about why you waited as long as you did. You haven't really explained it in this post.
posted by pete_22 at 9:55 AM on March 4, 2010
Whether he likes you as a person or a challenge- I can't tell.
A big issue is that you told him no and he kept pushing it. That was wrong. Maybe it was a power trip because he knew you were inexperienced and yet you were excited by him.
You did the right thing by cutting the relationship off. You open yourself up to lots of hurt when you give yourself to one who is not on the same page and doesn't honestly cherish the gift you gave him.
A honorable man that you can commit to will come into your life one day- and the beauty of the monogamous forever love relationship will be worth the wait.
posted by srbrunson at 9:57 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
A big issue is that you told him no and he kept pushing it. That was wrong. Maybe it was a power trip because he knew you were inexperienced and yet you were excited by him.
You did the right thing by cutting the relationship off. You open yourself up to lots of hurt when you give yourself to one who is not on the same page and doesn't honestly cherish the gift you gave him.
A honorable man that you can commit to will come into your life one day- and the beauty of the monogamous forever love relationship will be worth the wait.
posted by srbrunson at 9:57 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Oh my goodness. Reading this made me sad, for the situations you're in and the very similar situations I've been in. You have a lot to learn -- not your fault at all -- and "just sleeping with someone already" will not help you. The rules that most people are playing by these days in relationships are not set up for people like you to get what you want.
If you're in the US or UK, you should try to catch the TV show Super Nanny. Yes, it's about parenting and relating to children. But children trying to push their parents' boundaries about discipline is a very similar dynamic to men trying to push women's boundaries about sex. It'll teach you a lot about setting rules, setting boundaries, and making clear that what you say is the final word. Also get a copy of The Unfair Sex. From that book, you'll learn to spot a lot of the "tricks" men employ that are not sincere (you have pretty eyes, come see my view), but rather ways to navigate your boundaries in order to have sex with you.
Your job is teach a guy what you will and won't allow in the relationship. Let's review what you are teaching this guy: You tell him "No," you don't want to go up to his apartment, but then you wind up going. You tell him "No," you don't want to have sex, but then you do.
What has this guy learned? That your "no" means absolutely nothing. That if he continues to push the boundaries that you have set, you'll do whatever he wants, no matter how uncomfortable you feel about it.
When you say "no," mean it. And do not allow yourself to get into situations where you know that the strength of your "no" might be compromised. When you're downstairs in the street deciding whether to go up to his apartment is a much better time to stand by your "no" than when you're on his couch and he's kissing your neck.
You are right that he was being ungentlemanly. Yes, many women sleep with men they've just met willy-nilly. But you made clear that you were inexperienced and did not want to behave that way in this relationship. Instead of then taking your "no" at face value, he took advantage of your inexperience and convinced you to go further than he knew you wanted to. He was playing a game with you after you'd told him that you were unfamiliar with the rules.
And for him to continually question your “no” with “why” is also ungentlemanly. Instead of gentlemanly and gracefully accepting defeat, he is creating an opportunity where he can wear down your resistance. You are completely justified in not wanting to do what he asks you to, even if you don’t know why you don’t want to – you just don’t feel like it, a gut feeling, you’re just not comfortable, you’re not sure. But those reasons won’t hold up to his arguments – it’s just to see the view, he’ll behave, he promises! He probably makes you feel silly, immature, inexperienced. A gentleman doesn’t do that.
By the way, ANY EXCUSE he gives you to come up to his apartment -- a drink, coffee, a movie, a book he thinks you'd love, the view, I don't care if he has a fucking Picasso --getting you into his apartment is Step One in Operation Have Sex With You.
I can go on about this endlessly. Please memail if you want more advice, no matter how silly or lengthy you think your questions are.
posted by thebazilist at 9:59 AM on March 4, 2010 [17 favorites]
If you're in the US or UK, you should try to catch the TV show Super Nanny. Yes, it's about parenting and relating to children. But children trying to push their parents' boundaries about discipline is a very similar dynamic to men trying to push women's boundaries about sex. It'll teach you a lot about setting rules, setting boundaries, and making clear that what you say is the final word. Also get a copy of The Unfair Sex. From that book, you'll learn to spot a lot of the "tricks" men employ that are not sincere (you have pretty eyes, come see my view), but rather ways to navigate your boundaries in order to have sex with you.
Your job is teach a guy what you will and won't allow in the relationship. Let's review what you are teaching this guy: You tell him "No," you don't want to go up to his apartment, but then you wind up going. You tell him "No," you don't want to have sex, but then you do.
What has this guy learned? That your "no" means absolutely nothing. That if he continues to push the boundaries that you have set, you'll do whatever he wants, no matter how uncomfortable you feel about it.
When you say "no," mean it. And do not allow yourself to get into situations where you know that the strength of your "no" might be compromised. When you're downstairs in the street deciding whether to go up to his apartment is a much better time to stand by your "no" than when you're on his couch and he's kissing your neck.
You are right that he was being ungentlemanly. Yes, many women sleep with men they've just met willy-nilly. But you made clear that you were inexperienced and did not want to behave that way in this relationship. Instead of then taking your "no" at face value, he took advantage of your inexperience and convinced you to go further than he knew you wanted to. He was playing a game with you after you'd told him that you were unfamiliar with the rules.
And for him to continually question your “no” with “why” is also ungentlemanly. Instead of gentlemanly and gracefully accepting defeat, he is creating an opportunity where he can wear down your resistance. You are completely justified in not wanting to do what he asks you to, even if you don’t know why you don’t want to – you just don’t feel like it, a gut feeling, you’re just not comfortable, you’re not sure. But those reasons won’t hold up to his arguments – it’s just to see the view, he’ll behave, he promises! He probably makes you feel silly, immature, inexperienced. A gentleman doesn’t do that.
By the way, ANY EXCUSE he gives you to come up to his apartment -- a drink, coffee, a movie, a book he thinks you'd love, the view, I don't care if he has a fucking Picasso --getting you into his apartment is Step One in Operation Have Sex With You.
I can go on about this endlessly. Please memail if you want more advice, no matter how silly or lengthy you think your questions are.
posted by thebazilist at 9:59 AM on March 4, 2010 [17 favorites]
what if I met someone during this two three weeks time when I don't get a chance to see you at all?
That's what he said to you? That right there would be a dealbreaker for me - that's super manipulative.
What's "sth."? Something? Use your words.
posted by amro at 10:00 AM on March 4, 2010 [11 favorites]
That's what he said to you? That right there would be a dealbreaker for me - that's super manipulative.
What's "sth."? Something? Use your words.
posted by amro at 10:00 AM on March 4, 2010 [11 favorites]
As others have said: Yes, you are in a FWB relationship.
While it's definitely possible that he likes you as a person, he also definitely -- and I'd say primarily -- wants to have sex. And in answer to your question about "why seek a new girl for fwb instead of someone you know," if you get someone "new" who isn't in your social circle, there's a lot less social pressure to not screw them over, and no backlash (theoretically for either of you) if things go sour. I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt because of BS like this:
Then he's like how can I persuade you to change your mind? He started kissing me and nibble on my neck and [he said] what if I met someone during this two three weeks time when I don't get a chance to see you at all?
That's mind-game-y and crappy behavior if you've already stated that you don't want to engage, especially if he knows you don't have a lot of prior relationship experience that will help you navigate those kinds of exchanges.
However, I also want to point out that there's nothing inherently wrong with just wanting and enjoying sex in a FWB relationship ... as long as you're both up-front and okay with it. I'm glad you say you've ultimately broken it off, because it doesn't sound like you are.
He may try to pick up your connection again in the near future (after all, you'd "broken it off" before and then gotten back together), but if you're not comfortable having sex with someone who isn't ultimately interested in the same kind of relationship you are, the quality of your conversations and chemistry just don't matter. He's not going to suddenly change his mind about something he's been clear on since the beginning.
Don't worry too much about never finding someone with chemistry again, but as Jaltcoh says, acknowledge that you must play a role in making time/valuing a relationship too, if that's what you're looking for.
posted by alleycat01 at 10:00 AM on March 4, 2010
While it's definitely possible that he likes you as a person, he also definitely -- and I'd say primarily -- wants to have sex. And in answer to your question about "why seek a new girl for fwb instead of someone you know," if you get someone "new" who isn't in your social circle, there's a lot less social pressure to not screw them over, and no backlash (theoretically for either of you) if things go sour. I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt because of BS like this:
Then he's like how can I persuade you to change your mind? He started kissing me and nibble on my neck and [he said] what if I met someone during this two three weeks time when I don't get a chance to see you at all?
That's mind-game-y and crappy behavior if you've already stated that you don't want to engage, especially if he knows you don't have a lot of prior relationship experience that will help you navigate those kinds of exchanges.
However, I also want to point out that there's nothing inherently wrong with just wanting and enjoying sex in a FWB relationship ... as long as you're both up-front and okay with it. I'm glad you say you've ultimately broken it off, because it doesn't sound like you are.
He may try to pick up your connection again in the near future (after all, you'd "broken it off" before and then gotten back together), but if you're not comfortable having sex with someone who isn't ultimately interested in the same kind of relationship you are, the quality of your conversations and chemistry just don't matter. He's not going to suddenly change his mind about something he's been clear on since the beginning.
Don't worry too much about never finding someone with chemistry again, but as Jaltcoh says, acknowledge that you must play a role in making time/valuing a relationship too, if that's what you're looking for.
posted by alleycat01 at 10:00 AM on March 4, 2010
(Oh, and whatever you do, whenever you do it -- please, please use protection. Pulling out doesn't always work, and doesn't work at all against STDs.)
posted by alleycat01 at 10:01 AM on March 4, 2010
posted by alleycat01 at 10:01 AM on March 4, 2010
Just to clarify, men are not evil. They want sex and will move heaven and earth to get it -- and I don't want it any other way. But society is no longer set up to protect the inexperienced from "wolves," and there are a lot of mixed messages out there for us about what's normal and desirable and "healthy" and expected in relationships.
posted by thebazilist at 10:04 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by thebazilist at 10:04 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Does he actually like me as a person or is he only interested in sex (29 yr old woman w/no experience)?
I think you will find as you continue to become more experienced that things are not black and white. He can like you as a person AND be really interested in sex AND not want to have a long-term relationship with you.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:14 AM on March 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
I think you will find as you continue to become more experienced that things are not black and white. He can like you as a person AND be really interested in sex AND not want to have a long-term relationship with you.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:14 AM on March 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
Does he actually like me as a person or is he only interested in sex (29 yr old woman w/no experience)?
You cannot read minds. We do not know what he wants. You need to set boundaries with men with a solid discussion. Write your boundaries down and then talk to the potential partner about the boundaries. It isn't first date discussion, but it is something that needs to be discussed before sex takes place.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:33 AM on March 4, 2010
You cannot read minds. We do not know what he wants. You need to set boundaries with men with a solid discussion. Write your boundaries down and then talk to the potential partner about the boundaries. It isn't first date discussion, but it is something that needs to be discussed before sex takes place.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:33 AM on March 4, 2010
However, considering how intensely the experience seems to have affected you, I would gently suggest that you're using being "busy" as a defense mechanism against developing relationships. If you don't want to be in a relationship or even do any dating or kissing or anything, I'm not criticizing that. But please admit that it's a choice based on not wanting to do those things. You haven't been so busy with work and school up to age 29 that you've been unable to do any dating. Everyone's always "too busy" for the things they don't want to do. We make time for the things we value the most.
I agree with the above. It sounds like you are not comfortable with sex, or sex outside of marriage. Metafilter is probably the last place to go for advice on this, assuming that there is some sort of religious background to this. I may be, and probably am, completely wrong about this. Also, reading this narrative it sounds to me like you have blind spots when it comes to interpreting people's emotions and motives.. From a distance, and speaking as a non-expert but someone who has read about it, it sounds like you have Asperger's. I do not mean that as a joke or any type of actual diagnosis. But there is something going on that seems like more than just being busy. Don't do things with members of the opposite that make you uncomfortable.
posted by mecran01 at 10:42 AM on March 4, 2010
I agree with the above. It sounds like you are not comfortable with sex, or sex outside of marriage. Metafilter is probably the last place to go for advice on this, assuming that there is some sort of religious background to this. I may be, and probably am, completely wrong about this. Also, reading this narrative it sounds to me like you have blind spots when it comes to interpreting people's emotions and motives.. From a distance, and speaking as a non-expert but someone who has read about it, it sounds like you have Asperger's. I do not mean that as a joke or any type of actual diagnosis. But there is something going on that seems like more than just being busy. Don't do things with members of the opposite that make you uncomfortable.
posted by mecran01 at 10:42 AM on March 4, 2010
Wow, that was a long question. I could see you re-living everything as you typed it out, making sure you put in all the details. I can understand over-analyzing like that. Relationships are tough, and murky and confusing.
Before I answer some of your specific questions, though, one detail you didn't include was whether you used birth control, and that's *important*. Please be safe from now on, not just about the risk of pregnancy but STDs. Yes, that means condoms. Get some.
So, he likes you. He thinks you're sexy and hot and a challenge. He is WAY too pushy for my taste (seriously, no means no, and you shouldn't say it unless you mean it, and then you need to stick to it), but he has also been honest with you. He was in a long-term relationship, it didn't work out, and he doesn't want anything serious now. That's understandable, and you should take him at his word.
Relationships are not black and white. Remember when I said they were tough and murky and confusing? A guy can be pushy, yet honest, like a girl and want to have sex with her, yet not be in love all at the same time. Doesn't make him a bad guy.
Doesn't make you a bad person that for you, sex is more serious, either. But you know, I think you are a little conflicted about that, too. I think you feel sex SHOULD be more serious--but you have prioritized your school and work above your sex life for all this time. Maybe you need to re-examine why you have chosen to do this. Maybe sex isn't that big a deal to you.
posted by misha at 10:45 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Before I answer some of your specific questions, though, one detail you didn't include was whether you used birth control, and that's *important*. Please be safe from now on, not just about the risk of pregnancy but STDs. Yes, that means condoms. Get some.
So, he likes you. He thinks you're sexy and hot and a challenge. He is WAY too pushy for my taste (seriously, no means no, and you shouldn't say it unless you mean it, and then you need to stick to it), but he has also been honest with you. He was in a long-term relationship, it didn't work out, and he doesn't want anything serious now. That's understandable, and you should take him at his word.
Relationships are not black and white. Remember when I said they were tough and murky and confusing? A guy can be pushy, yet honest, like a girl and want to have sex with her, yet not be in love all at the same time. Doesn't make him a bad guy.
Doesn't make you a bad person that for you, sex is more serious, either. But you know, I think you are a little conflicted about that, too. I think you feel sex SHOULD be more serious--but you have prioritized your school and work above your sex life for all this time. Maybe you need to re-examine why you have chosen to do this. Maybe sex isn't that big a deal to you.
posted by misha at 10:45 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, setting boundaries and discussing them in an adult manner is a good thing to do at a certain point in a relationship -- however, the OP and this guy, and this happens often, has already blasted past her boundaries without having reached that point. And it looks like this guy doesn't even want the type of relationship that would reach a point where they both could sit down and maturely talk about their wishes and feelings and goals and boundaries.
And as for getting an Asperger's diagnosis from this -- asbolutely not!!! Many women go through this with men. Our mothers didn't teach us things like "don't believe him when he says he just wants to show you the view," because they are afraid to talk frankly about sex, or they think we'll learn from Cosmopolitan magazine, or they are and/or want us to be sexually liberated. This was 100% me my sophomore year of college. Some guy asked me out on one of my first real dates, swept me off my feet, I told him I was inexperienced with relationships, we went further than I would have had I been more confident in my judgment and boundaries, he told me he'd just gotten out of a relationship and wasn't looking for something serious, but he was so attentive and flattering that I thought he'd change his mind, etc etc etc. Happens all the time, to many women, and I'm pretty sure we don't all have Asperger's (I know, my brother has it).
The problem is that I thought that I could trust this guy to have my best interests in mind -- he didn't. The lesson I learned is that you can't automatically trust that a guy is going to inherently respect your boundaries. You have to defend them yourself, to the death.
posted by thebazilist at 10:57 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
And as for getting an Asperger's diagnosis from this -- asbolutely not!!! Many women go through this with men. Our mothers didn't teach us things like "don't believe him when he says he just wants to show you the view," because they are afraid to talk frankly about sex, or they think we'll learn from Cosmopolitan magazine, or they are and/or want us to be sexually liberated. This was 100% me my sophomore year of college. Some guy asked me out on one of my first real dates, swept me off my feet, I told him I was inexperienced with relationships, we went further than I would have had I been more confident in my judgment and boundaries, he told me he'd just gotten out of a relationship and wasn't looking for something serious, but he was so attentive and flattering that I thought he'd change his mind, etc etc etc. Happens all the time, to many women, and I'm pretty sure we don't all have Asperger's (I know, my brother has it).
The problem is that I thought that I could trust this guy to have my best interests in mind -- he didn't. The lesson I learned is that you can't automatically trust that a guy is going to inherently respect your boundaries. You have to defend them yourself, to the death.
posted by thebazilist at 10:57 AM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I'm probably off on the Asperger's thing, sorry.
posted by mecran01 at 11:15 AM on March 4, 2010
posted by mecran01 at 11:15 AM on March 4, 2010
My $0.02:
This guy has been in total control of the whole frame of reference the whole time. There are a lot of clues in your narrative as to just how manipulative this guy is. He's VERY good at getting women into bed with him. And, quite a number of the things he did are downright despicable.
I'd say that thebazilist pretty much has this all nailed right on the head. Your best defense can be summed up thusly: 1) Decide exactly what you want and don't want with a guy BEFORE you see him. 2) Don't let anything shake you from that - no matter what the consequences, no matter what he says or doesn't.
Building up that kind of willpower and self-confidence can be challenging. It gets easier with practice.
posted by Citrus at 11:20 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
This guy has been in total control of the whole frame of reference the whole time. There are a lot of clues in your narrative as to just how manipulative this guy is. He's VERY good at getting women into bed with him. And, quite a number of the things he did are downright despicable.
I'd say that thebazilist pretty much has this all nailed right on the head. Your best defense can be summed up thusly: 1) Decide exactly what you want and don't want with a guy BEFORE you see him. 2) Don't let anything shake you from that - no matter what the consequences, no matter what he says or doesn't.
Building up that kind of willpower and self-confidence can be challenging. It gets easier with practice.
posted by Citrus at 11:20 AM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, OP, it sounds like this guy is not offering anything you're interested in having, and he sounds kind of skeevy to boot, all the hinting that if you don't see him and don't have sex with him, he'll just find someone else. You would probably be better off not seeing him at all.
It's difficult to tell exactly what you want from a relationship by reading your post, by the way, which makes me think that maybe you're not sure either. Perhaps you should hold off on dating and do some work on figuring out what your expectations and desires are? It's very difficult to figure out and enforce consent in the heat of the moment if you're not already sure where your boundaries lie.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:36 AM on March 4, 2010
It's difficult to tell exactly what you want from a relationship by reading your post, by the way, which makes me think that maybe you're not sure either. Perhaps you should hold off on dating and do some work on figuring out what your expectations and desires are? It's very difficult to figure out and enforce consent in the heat of the moment if you're not already sure where your boundaries lie.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:36 AM on March 4, 2010
- you need someone who will respect the fact that you are new to all this
- this guy clearly doesn't
posted by CharlesV42 at 11:49 AM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
- this guy clearly doesn't
posted by CharlesV42 at 11:49 AM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Wow, even for someone who writes long questions in the green, that was LONG. And the abbreviations were wonky, maybe if we were all in bschool we'd understand them?
Anyway, in many ways, you come off as seeming very young for your years. In fact, absent your telling us that you're 29, I'd assume you were a young and pretty naive (at life) undergraduate in their late teens/early twenties. So that part doesn't totally stick for me.
But to answer the question posed - ditch him. This guy sounds like a total loser, and there is a lot of borderline inappropriate behavior in here. Your first relationship can be pretty emotionally intense, but do your best to remind yourself that there are (plenty of) other guys out there, and tons that will treat you more respectfully and like you as a person in addition to loving your body.
PS- One more thing- never be ashamed about your lack of sexual inexperience, but try to avoid the guys who are drawn to you because of your sexual inexperience. They're almost uniformly people who you don't want to be with.
posted by arnicae at 12:07 PM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Anyway, in many ways, you come off as seeming very young for your years. In fact, absent your telling us that you're 29, I'd assume you were a young and pretty naive (at life) undergraduate in their late teens/early twenties. So that part doesn't totally stick for me.
But to answer the question posed - ditch him. This guy sounds like a total loser, and there is a lot of borderline inappropriate behavior in here. Your first relationship can be pretty emotionally intense, but do your best to remind yourself that there are (plenty of) other guys out there, and tons that will treat you more respectfully and like you as a person in addition to loving your body.
PS- One more thing- never be ashamed about your lack of sexual inexperience, but try to avoid the guys who are drawn to you because of your sexual inexperience. They're almost uniformly people who you don't want to be with.
posted by arnicae at 12:07 PM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I'm the OP, thanks so much for all the comments so far. For someone so new to all this, it really helps to get the different perspectives. That's why this site is so awesome!
Sorry about the abbreviations. I thought those are pretty obvious, but I guess not. Sth. = something, b/c = because, FT = full time, PT= part time; bschool = business school, FB = facebook.
I just want to answer some of the questions that several commenters have raised. Didn't want to put it in initial post because I didn't want to make the post longer than it already is.
Yes, I'm really really late to the dating game. I'm a late bloomer. I don't have any religious hang-ups, but as an only child, my parents were pretty strict with me. They were always telling me to focus on my school and my career. There were guys asking me out in high school. One guy had a huge crush on me that lasted until we both graduated and went to colleges in different cities. But my parents didn't allow me to date in high school. I went to a women's college and my school isn't really known for the party scene. There was one guy during a summer internship that I liked. I ended up asking him out at the end of the internship, but got rejected quite cruelly. That had a huge effect on my self-esteem. When I started working, I was surrounded by older married men. So no possibilities there. I always thought it's important to establish your career first before thinking about dating and men, and that's what I've been focusing on. My friends from undergraduate all are late bloomers and don't have much dating experience either. So I always thought my lack of experience was normal at my age, it wasn't until I get to business school did I discover that the majority of people my age and younger are either married or living with their significant other already. I'm not saving myself for marriage or anything. Yes, I do get horny, and yes, I enjoyed the kissing and make out sessions and the sex I've had so far. But I want to explore my sexuality with a partner in a loving monogamous relationship. I can't picture myself having sex with someone that I don't love or at least really really like and trusted.
To answer arnicae's comment: even though I'm 29, many people have told me that I look younger than my age. In fact, the guy who asked me out thought I was 25. He was really surprised when he found out I was older than him.
Part of my confusion also stems from the fact that this guy behaves so differently in school versus when he was alone with me. When he's in school, he seems like the consummate nice considerate guy who will go out of his way to help you, but when he's alone with me, he's super talkative and physically aggressive. Totally different personality.
Oh, by the way. It also bugs me a lot that when we are fooling around and having sex. He keeps telling me that he wants to make me happy (as in sexually). He says that he wants to give me an orgasm. But at the same time, he knows that I'm totally stressed out with school and internship search, but he never volunteered to tutor me on schoolwork or read my resume even though he got super high GPAs. What I really want is a guy who will be there for me emotionally, I'm not happy when all he wants is to satisfy me sexually.
posted by wcmf at 12:41 PM on March 4, 2010
Sorry about the abbreviations. I thought those are pretty obvious, but I guess not. Sth. = something, b/c = because, FT = full time, PT= part time; bschool = business school, FB = facebook.
I just want to answer some of the questions that several commenters have raised. Didn't want to put it in initial post because I didn't want to make the post longer than it already is.
Yes, I'm really really late to the dating game. I'm a late bloomer. I don't have any religious hang-ups, but as an only child, my parents were pretty strict with me. They were always telling me to focus on my school and my career. There were guys asking me out in high school. One guy had a huge crush on me that lasted until we both graduated and went to colleges in different cities. But my parents didn't allow me to date in high school. I went to a women's college and my school isn't really known for the party scene. There was one guy during a summer internship that I liked. I ended up asking him out at the end of the internship, but got rejected quite cruelly. That had a huge effect on my self-esteem. When I started working, I was surrounded by older married men. So no possibilities there. I always thought it's important to establish your career first before thinking about dating and men, and that's what I've been focusing on. My friends from undergraduate all are late bloomers and don't have much dating experience either. So I always thought my lack of experience was normal at my age, it wasn't until I get to business school did I discover that the majority of people my age and younger are either married or living with their significant other already. I'm not saving myself for marriage or anything. Yes, I do get horny, and yes, I enjoyed the kissing and make out sessions and the sex I've had so far. But I want to explore my sexuality with a partner in a loving monogamous relationship. I can't picture myself having sex with someone that I don't love or at least really really like and trusted.
To answer arnicae's comment: even though I'm 29, many people have told me that I look younger than my age. In fact, the guy who asked me out thought I was 25. He was really surprised when he found out I was older than him.
Part of my confusion also stems from the fact that this guy behaves so differently in school versus when he was alone with me. When he's in school, he seems like the consummate nice considerate guy who will go out of his way to help you, but when he's alone with me, he's super talkative and physically aggressive. Totally different personality.
Oh, by the way. It also bugs me a lot that when we are fooling around and having sex. He keeps telling me that he wants to make me happy (as in sexually). He says that he wants to give me an orgasm. But at the same time, he knows that I'm totally stressed out with school and internship search, but he never volunteered to tutor me on schoolwork or read my resume even though he got super high GPAs. What I really want is a guy who will be there for me emotionally, I'm not happy when all he wants is to satisfy me sexually.
posted by wcmf at 12:41 PM on March 4, 2010
If you don't want to do something, you DO NOT need an excuse, and in fact you are better off without one.
Some fella: Would you like to come up and look at my etchings?
You: No thanks, I'd rather not.
Him: Why's that?
You: I'd just rather not, thanks.
This (or before this) is the point where any guy worth his salt will shut the hell up, respect your opinions and change the subject. If he doesn't treat you with respect BEFORE you get in his bedroom, he most certainly isn't going to do so afterwards, so get out of the situation while you are still in a public area.
Fella: But why on earth wouldn't you come up? Do you think I'd try and do something you don't want? Don't you trust me?
You: OK, now you're behaving like a real creep. I'm leaving.
No matter how lovely the guy is, how friendly and helpful he is and how much you may like and trust him, if he is behaving like a dick that is not cool and you do not have to put up with it for one minute.
Even if he is NOT behaving like a dick, if he is doing things that you are not personally comfortable with, you do not have to put up with that, and he should respect that. If he can't handle the way you are, he is free to not hang around with you.
I kept saying no for an hour
If someone ignores you when you say no, get OUT of that situation IMMEDIATELY, even if you have to be rude. This kind of situation is exactly the kind of thing that turns into date rape.
If you ever have kids, for goodness sake teach them this stuff before they are 29!
posted by emilyw at 12:58 PM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Some fella: Would you like to come up and look at my etchings?
You: No thanks, I'd rather not.
Him: Why's that?
You: I'd just rather not, thanks.
This (or before this) is the point where any guy worth his salt will shut the hell up, respect your opinions and change the subject. If he doesn't treat you with respect BEFORE you get in his bedroom, he most certainly isn't going to do so afterwards, so get out of the situation while you are still in a public area.
Fella: But why on earth wouldn't you come up? Do you think I'd try and do something you don't want? Don't you trust me?
You: OK, now you're behaving like a real creep. I'm leaving.
No matter how lovely the guy is, how friendly and helpful he is and how much you may like and trust him, if he is behaving like a dick that is not cool and you do not have to put up with it for one minute.
Even if he is NOT behaving like a dick, if he is doing things that you are not personally comfortable with, you do not have to put up with that, and he should respect that. If he can't handle the way you are, he is free to not hang around with you.
I kept saying no for an hour
If someone ignores you when you say no, get OUT of that situation IMMEDIATELY, even if you have to be rude. This kind of situation is exactly the kind of thing that turns into date rape.
If you ever have kids, for goodness sake teach them this stuff before they are 29!
posted by emilyw at 12:58 PM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
The guy sounds like a manipulative jerkoff, and you sound like an easy target. If you're happy with that, proceed. But the fact that you're asking the question at all implies that you're not.
Also, the shrink in me wants to ask what your father did to make you so easily manipulated and socially immature.
posted by coolguymichael at 1:12 PM on March 4, 2010
Also, the shrink in me wants to ask what your father did to make you so easily manipulated and socially immature.
posted by coolguymichael at 1:12 PM on March 4, 2010
What I really want is a guy who will be there for me emotionally
This guy is not a guy who will be there for you emotionally. If that's what you want, you need to break up with this guy so that you're available to pursue and date people who want that too, when they come along. You can't hang on to a guy who has told you that he doesn't want a serious romantic relationship with you and then be upset when he demonstrates that he doesn't want a serious romantic relationship with you. It's not fair to either of you for you to assume that he's not telling the truth about what he wants just because you think he should want something else.
posted by decathecting at 1:12 PM on March 4, 2010
This guy is not a guy who will be there for you emotionally. If that's what you want, you need to break up with this guy so that you're available to pursue and date people who want that too, when they come along. You can't hang on to a guy who has told you that he doesn't want a serious romantic relationship with you and then be upset when he demonstrates that he doesn't want a serious romantic relationship with you. It's not fair to either of you for you to assume that he's not telling the truth about what he wants just because you think he should want something else.
posted by decathecting at 1:12 PM on March 4, 2010
I am not going to defend the guy . . . but . . . the way the story is told leads me to believe that a significant portion of the details were seriously painted with her perspective. Without knowing how the exact situation went down, it is hard to say if he was being skeezy and manipulative or if he perceived her reactions as playful. I am inclined to agree with you guys that it seems more skeezy than not, but the type of overanalysis that took place in the moment probably made it into this story.
At this point, you should definitely say something about "hey, I think we took it a little faster than I was comfortable with. I know I went along with it, but I think it would be best if we took it down a notch." Then he knows that going that path again is a bad idea. You need to be assertive about what you want and how you are being communicated with. If you are trying to explain how you don't want to do something that he wants you to do, and he starts kissing your neck, then "whoa there cowboy, take it easy, I have to *blah blah blah*". When he tries to juice the throttle when you guys are spending time together, you can say "slow down hot shot, I am enjoying *this* part". (this allows you to keep some of the heat without just saying "no" and leaving) If you are assertive about what you want, and how you want to handle it, then he will have little choice but to go along or get out of your hair.
You are in a tough spot. You are 10ish years behind most of the pack when it comes to this sort of thing. Overanalyzing is not really going to help you here. Try to see everything for what it is not for what you think it could sort of be if looked at a certain way. Be assertive, and try to stick to things you are comfortable with. Be consistent! Mixed signals are the enemy!
At some point, you are going to have to balance your comfort level with your desire to get in the game. The only one that can perform that balancing act is you. Eventually, your comfort level may complement your willingness to get in the game, until then, they are 12 years apart.
Most of all, enjoy the ride. You will probably experience a lot of really cool and interesting things on this little journey, there is no sense in giving up on that one-of-a-kind journey just because you want to get there in a hurry, or because some skeeze-bag wants to get his rocks off.
Lastly, don't use "sth." . . . like EVER. I had no fucking clue what you were talking about.
posted by milqman at 1:18 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
At this point, you should definitely say something about "hey, I think we took it a little faster than I was comfortable with. I know I went along with it, but I think it would be best if we took it down a notch." Then he knows that going that path again is a bad idea. You need to be assertive about what you want and how you are being communicated with. If you are trying to explain how you don't want to do something that he wants you to do, and he starts kissing your neck, then "whoa there cowboy, take it easy, I have to *blah blah blah*". When he tries to juice the throttle when you guys are spending time together, you can say "slow down hot shot, I am enjoying *this* part". (this allows you to keep some of the heat without just saying "no" and leaving) If you are assertive about what you want, and how you want to handle it, then he will have little choice but to go along or get out of your hair.
You are in a tough spot. You are 10ish years behind most of the pack when it comes to this sort of thing. Overanalyzing is not really going to help you here. Try to see everything for what it is not for what you think it could sort of be if looked at a certain way. Be assertive, and try to stick to things you are comfortable with. Be consistent! Mixed signals are the enemy!
At some point, you are going to have to balance your comfort level with your desire to get in the game. The only one that can perform that balancing act is you. Eventually, your comfort level may complement your willingness to get in the game, until then, they are 12 years apart.
Most of all, enjoy the ride. You will probably experience a lot of really cool and interesting things on this little journey, there is no sense in giving up on that one-of-a-kind journey just because you want to get there in a hurry, or because some skeeze-bag wants to get his rocks off.
Lastly, don't use "sth." . . . like EVER. I had no fucking clue what you were talking about.
posted by milqman at 1:18 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
In your very long original question, I was kind of on the fence. On the one hand, he seemed overly persistent and kind of manipulative. On the other hand, you sounded inexperienced enough that maybe it was all just a matter of misunderstandings and poor communication. Then you posted this:
He keeps telling me that he wants to make me happy (as in sexually). He says that he wants to give me an orgasm. But at the same time, he knows that I'm totally stressed out with school and internship search, but he never volunteered to tutor me on schoolwork or read my resume even though he got super high GPAs.
That's a very good insight you have there, that someone who was really interested in you, as a person, would be interested in you beyond your sexuality. Life isn't just about sex, and neither should romantic relationships. Even friends-with-benefits are still, you know, supposed to be friends.
posted by Ms. Saint at 1:20 PM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
He keeps telling me that he wants to make me happy (as in sexually). He says that he wants to give me an orgasm. But at the same time, he knows that I'm totally stressed out with school and internship search, but he never volunteered to tutor me on schoolwork or read my resume even though he got super high GPAs.
That's a very good insight you have there, that someone who was really interested in you, as a person, would be interested in you beyond your sexuality. Life isn't just about sex, and neither should romantic relationships. Even friends-with-benefits are still, you know, supposed to be friends.
posted by Ms. Saint at 1:20 PM on March 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Oh, by the way. It also bugs me a lot that when we are fooling around and having sex. He keeps telling me that he wants to make me happy (as in sexually). He says that he wants to give me an orgasm. But at the same time, he knows that I'm totally stressed out with school and internship search, but he never volunteered to tutor me on schoolwork or read my resume even though he got super high GPAs. What I really want is a guy who will be there for me emotionally, I'm not happy when all he wants is to satisfy me sexually.
I definitely think this isn't the right guy for you, but I would also caution you that if you're literally unable to provide a prospective guy more than a cup of coffee every couple of weeks that your priorities aren't going to allow you the partner you want.
Think about it; you are unable to spend any time over a two week period with a prospective guy? What exactly are you offering to get the kind of relationship you want? If you're looking for a relationship that's all-fulfilling, you've got to be prepared to re-prioritize for it to happen. You can't give the absolute minimum and expect a relationship to blossom.
Best of luck!
posted by Hiker at 1:23 PM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
I definitely think this isn't the right guy for you, but I would also caution you that if you're literally unable to provide a prospective guy more than a cup of coffee every couple of weeks that your priorities aren't going to allow you the partner you want.
Think about it; you are unable to spend any time over a two week period with a prospective guy? What exactly are you offering to get the kind of relationship you want? If you're looking for a relationship that's all-fulfilling, you've got to be prepared to re-prioritize for it to happen. You can't give the absolute minimum and expect a relationship to blossom.
Best of luck!
posted by Hiker at 1:23 PM on March 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Aspergers???
Anyway, welcome to your first FWB relationship. Sorry it had to be your first relationship. This isn't exclusive to this guy either. It happens and we've allllll been through it, especially in early relationships.
But if you want a fwb type relationship, wouldn't it be easier to seek out someone you already know rather than ask out a new girl? and why would he tell me all about his family, long term goals, etc. and keep wanting to talk to me on the phone and on FB if all he wants is sex?
1. no because finding and inexperienced girl is way easier to entice. He felt the 'vibe' that you don't know any better (not being mean about it; just stating it as fact). And he liked you as a person and I'm sure you're attractive. But the combination is too easy to pass up if all he wanted was to get in and get out.
2. He tells you about family, long term goals, etc. becasue you're easy to talk to and you have a good head. He wasn't blatent with his sexual intentions but he wanted to live for the moment.
Probably the best thing to do in the future is be open, be honest, and put rules up--for him and for yourself. And take things slow. If it's too much of an emotional mind-fuck to get this involved sexually and emotionally with someone then keep it at the surface of just having a good friend--no sex, petting, etc. Otherwise, live for today and go for it and let it go as soon as the other person can. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
But seeing that this upset you so much, I'm sorry you had to go through this. Live and learn.
posted by stormpooper at 1:32 PM on March 4, 2010
Anyway, welcome to your first FWB relationship. Sorry it had to be your first relationship. This isn't exclusive to this guy either. It happens and we've allllll been through it, especially in early relationships.
But if you want a fwb type relationship, wouldn't it be easier to seek out someone you already know rather than ask out a new girl? and why would he tell me all about his family, long term goals, etc. and keep wanting to talk to me on the phone and on FB if all he wants is sex?
1. no because finding and inexperienced girl is way easier to entice. He felt the 'vibe' that you don't know any better (not being mean about it; just stating it as fact). And he liked you as a person and I'm sure you're attractive. But the combination is too easy to pass up if all he wanted was to get in and get out.
2. He tells you about family, long term goals, etc. becasue you're easy to talk to and you have a good head. He wasn't blatent with his sexual intentions but he wanted to live for the moment.
Probably the best thing to do in the future is be open, be honest, and put rules up--for him and for yourself. And take things slow. If it's too much of an emotional mind-fuck to get this involved sexually and emotionally with someone then keep it at the surface of just having a good friend--no sex, petting, etc. Otherwise, live for today and go for it and let it go as soon as the other person can. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
But seeing that this upset you so much, I'm sorry you had to go through this. Live and learn.
posted by stormpooper at 1:32 PM on March 4, 2010
He keeps telling me that he wants to make me happy (as in sexually). He says that he wants to give me an orgasm. But at the same time, he knows that I'm totally stressed out with school and internship search, but he never volunteered to tutor me on schoolwork or read my resume even though he got super high GPAs.
Well yeah. That's because he's not really doing it "for you" as a purely altruistic thing. He's doing it for himself. It turns him on.
Tutoring you on your schoolwork doesn't turn him on. Doesn't do much of anything for him. So he's not going to do that.
What I really want is a guy who will be there for me emotionally, I'm not happy when all he wants is to satisfy me sexually.
Sounds good. The less time you waste on this guy who doesn't want the same thing as you, the sooner you'll find the guy who will be there for you emotionally.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:55 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well yeah. That's because he's not really doing it "for you" as a purely altruistic thing. He's doing it for himself. It turns him on.
Tutoring you on your schoolwork doesn't turn him on. Doesn't do much of anything for him. So he's not going to do that.
What I really want is a guy who will be there for me emotionally, I'm not happy when all he wants is to satisfy me sexually.
Sounds good. The less time you waste on this guy who doesn't want the same thing as you, the sooner you'll find the guy who will be there for you emotionally.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:55 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
My thoughts on your guy is that he thought you were a cool person then quickly learned he could take advantage of your stunted maturity to convince you to let him pop your cherry.
It's ok to take sexual steps slowly in a relationship, but from the way you write and severly over analyze every little physical interaction with this person, and the way you can't sustain any other relationship with another man past one date by the age of 30 is just not usual. Also, you should not feel as dirty as you seem to feel for making out. You may want to start seeing a therapist to work out ways to interact with potential partners more like an adult and be able to stick to your guns with regards to having sex later in a relationsip, while still being able to enjoy your sexuality through things like kissing, making out, and heavy petting.
What Ashley801 said about him wanting you to orgasm for his own pleasure and not just yours is also true in all likelyhood.
posted by WeekendJen at 2:31 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's ok to take sexual steps slowly in a relationship, but from the way you write and severly over analyze every little physical interaction with this person, and the way you can't sustain any other relationship with another man past one date by the age of 30 is just not usual. Also, you should not feel as dirty as you seem to feel for making out. You may want to start seeing a therapist to work out ways to interact with potential partners more like an adult and be able to stick to your guns with regards to having sex later in a relationsip, while still being able to enjoy your sexuality through things like kissing, making out, and heavy petting.
What Ashley801 said about him wanting you to orgasm for his own pleasure and not just yours is also true in all likelyhood.
posted by WeekendJen at 2:31 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I get the sense that you actually don't like him as a person. As in, you like some aspects about him, but you definitely don't like other aspects. It sounds like you would be better off not having any sexual relations with him. He probably will start hooking up with someone else if the opportunity presents itself, so you might want to just avoid him altogether if you think you'd be hurt by this.
posted by anniecat at 3:48 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by anniecat at 3:48 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the response. Even though things didn't work out, I view this short lived relationship as a good learning experience. I guess I'm not a casual relationship person. I just don't understand the point of that. If I realize someone doesn't have the potential to turn the relationship into something long-term, I just politely turns them down. Otherwise I'd feel it's a waste of time and energy. I'm the kind of person who's very cautious in opening up emotionally but once I do, I'm committed to it 100%.
Several posters have pointed out how much I've been affected by this experience. yes, it's affected me more than I thought, even though I don't show that to anyone. I felt rejected and depressed when I realized that despite all the sweet words he'd whisper in my ear, telling me how great I am or how much he's into me, he's not that into me. Because otherwise why would he think that I'd be good enough to fool around and have sex with, but not good enough to have a relationship with.
posted by wcmf at 6:44 PM on March 4, 2010
Several posters have pointed out how much I've been affected by this experience. yes, it's affected me more than I thought, even though I don't show that to anyone. I felt rejected and depressed when I realized that despite all the sweet words he'd whisper in my ear, telling me how great I am or how much he's into me, he's not that into me. Because otherwise why would he think that I'd be good enough to fool around and have sex with, but not good enough to have a relationship with.
posted by wcmf at 6:44 PM on March 4, 2010
I felt rejected and depressed when I realized that despite all the sweet words he'd whisper in my ear, telling me how great I am or how much he's into me, he's not that into me. Because otherwise why would he think that I'd be good enough to fool around and have sex with, but not good enough to have a relationship with.
I know that this is hard but you should really try to not take this personally and feel that you've been rejected because you've not come up to scratch or not "good enough". He told you when you first went out that he was just out of a serious relationship and wanted something casual. Take him at his word -- it's not you, it's him.
posted by peacheater at 7:01 PM on March 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
I know that this is hard but you should really try to not take this personally and feel that you've been rejected because you've not come up to scratch or not "good enough". He told you when you first went out that he was just out of a serious relationship and wanted something casual. Take him at his word -- it's not you, it's him.
posted by peacheater at 7:01 PM on March 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Because otherwise why would he think that I'd be good enough to fool around and have sex with, but not good enough to have a relationship with.
Wow, I swear, I was just about to write these exact words: "it's not you, it's him." Then I saw the last sentence of peacheater's comment.
You're experiencing things as if they were earth-shatteringly momentous when they're just the same old ridiculous nonsense that decent people have to deal with all the time. In the world of dating, lots of people are just flakes, and there's nothing more to it. Unfortunately, you've recently realized you've been dealing with one of those people. You can find someone who's so much better for you.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:08 PM on March 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Wow, I swear, I was just about to write these exact words: "it's not you, it's him." Then I saw the last sentence of peacheater's comment.
You're experiencing things as if they were earth-shatteringly momentous when they're just the same old ridiculous nonsense that decent people have to deal with all the time. In the world of dating, lots of people are just flakes, and there's nothing more to it. Unfortunately, you've recently realized you've been dealing with one of those people. You can find someone who's so much better for you.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:08 PM on March 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
In my experience, letting someone get you to do what you don't want to do just means that they've learned they can have their way [with you] if they're obnoxiously persistent. You say no, he says yes, and he keeps pushing 'til you stop saying no. Ever seen kids who's parents never enforce a "no"? Same pattern.
Glad to hear you broke it off. I would have predicted that a relationship with him would have been exceedingly frustrating.
As for feeling depressed & rejected: Normal, normal, normal. Try to come back a little wiser. One of the things you now know that you might not have fully understood before is how powerfully Dame Nature can affect our willpower/judgement. Be ready the next time this comes up. I promise it will: You opened Pandora's Box when you slept with him.
As for him not being 'THAT' into you: Who can say? I wouldn't take his failure to respect your stated emotional needs as proof positive in a judgement against you. He may just be a self-centered jerk. Or even a fairly decent guy who just can't hear over the roar of testosterone flooding his system every time you walked into the room. But flag one was him telling you he'd recently broken up, and flag 2 was him telling you straight up he wasn't looking for exclusive. It's a non-starter & you're going to feel like crap for a while. Especially since you Did the Deed; that tends to be a big emotional amplifier.
>why would he think that I'd be good enough to fool around and have sex with, but not good enough to have a relationship with
Not to be harsh, but you told him no and then stayed for more. As you're mulling over this whole episode and putting it into perspective, please give careful thought to the value of actions over words. Yours and his. Because it sounds like both of you failed to support your words with actions. --At least until you cut him off.
posted by Ys at 7:47 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Glad to hear you broke it off. I would have predicted that a relationship with him would have been exceedingly frustrating.
As for feeling depressed & rejected: Normal, normal, normal. Try to come back a little wiser. One of the things you now know that you might not have fully understood before is how powerfully Dame Nature can affect our willpower/judgement. Be ready the next time this comes up. I promise it will: You opened Pandora's Box when you slept with him.
As for him not being 'THAT' into you: Who can say? I wouldn't take his failure to respect your stated emotional needs as proof positive in a judgement against you. He may just be a self-centered jerk. Or even a fairly decent guy who just can't hear over the roar of testosterone flooding his system every time you walked into the room. But flag one was him telling you he'd recently broken up, and flag 2 was him telling you straight up he wasn't looking for exclusive. It's a non-starter & you're going to feel like crap for a while. Especially since you Did the Deed; that tends to be a big emotional amplifier.
>why would he think that I'd be good enough to fool around and have sex with, but not good enough to have a relationship with
Not to be harsh, but you told him no and then stayed for more. As you're mulling over this whole episode and putting it into perspective, please give careful thought to the value of actions over words. Yours and his. Because it sounds like both of you failed to support your words with actions. --At least until you cut him off.
posted by Ys at 7:47 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
He's a jerk.
Anyone who applies that much pressure on you for sex, with complete disregard for what you want, is a jerk.
If you say 'no,' make it stick.
Otherwise you encourage the jerk.
posted by SLC Mom at 7:55 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Anyone who applies that much pressure on you for sex, with complete disregard for what you want, is a jerk.
If you say 'no,' make it stick.
Otherwise you encourage the jerk.
posted by SLC Mom at 7:55 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: from the way you write and severly over analyze every little physical interaction with this person, and the way you can't sustain any other relationship with another man past one date by the age of 30 is just not usual.
Wow, what a way to tell someone that there's something really wrong with them. Geez!
OP: it's ok to be inexperienced. It takes time to figure these things out, and you do that by having experiences, screwing up, and learning from them, which is exactly what you've done. We really don't have good models for how to have healthy relationships growing up. And it's not easy either, given the messages that society tells women about being nice and not saying no and all that crap.
Because otherwise why would he think that I'd be good enough to fool around and have sex with, but not good enough to have a relationship with.
Keep in mind that he did say that he wanted a casual relationship. I think that was your first mistake in not really listening to that, and still continuing to see him, which is why you ended up conflicted and confused. But, you know, that's ok. You made a mistake. Part of the learning process. You're still alive, if a little wounded. So for the future: listen to what people say. He said he wanted a casual relationship. That was obviously not what you wanted to hear, so you kept seeing him and hoping (unconsciously) for something that you wanted: a Real Relationship. So it's not that you're not "good enough" to have a relationship with - don't blame yourself! It's just that he didn't want that and was not in a place to do it.
posted by foxjacket at 9:28 AM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Wow, what a way to tell someone that there's something really wrong with them. Geez!
OP: it's ok to be inexperienced. It takes time to figure these things out, and you do that by having experiences, screwing up, and learning from them, which is exactly what you've done. We really don't have good models for how to have healthy relationships growing up. And it's not easy either, given the messages that society tells women about being nice and not saying no and all that crap.
Because otherwise why would he think that I'd be good enough to fool around and have sex with, but not good enough to have a relationship with.
Keep in mind that he did say that he wanted a casual relationship. I think that was your first mistake in not really listening to that, and still continuing to see him, which is why you ended up conflicted and confused. But, you know, that's ok. You made a mistake. Part of the learning process. You're still alive, if a little wounded. So for the future: listen to what people say. He said he wanted a casual relationship. That was obviously not what you wanted to hear, so you kept seeing him and hoping (unconsciously) for something that you wanted: a Real Relationship. So it's not that you're not "good enough" to have a relationship with - don't blame yourself! It's just that he didn't want that and was not in a place to do it.
posted by foxjacket at 9:28 AM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
He may not be that much of a jerk, depending on how explicit you were. Out of context I would guess that for late twenties, "not that experienced" means "sex with less than ~10 guys". Not "virgin". And by caving quickly on things (going up to his place, etc.) you're telling him that you're playing hard to get, which to be fair to him some women do on purpose.
If most of your dates to this point (with people you found attractive) were hands off, then you may be inadvertently selecting for pushy guys; most of the less aggressive guys you're looking for will treat lack of flirting as non-interest and respect your boundaries by leaving you alone.
posted by anaelith at 7:43 PM on March 5, 2010
If most of your dates to this point (with people you found attractive) were hands off, then you may be inadvertently selecting for pushy guys; most of the less aggressive guys you're looking for will treat lack of flirting as non-interest and respect your boundaries by leaving you alone.
posted by anaelith at 7:43 PM on March 5, 2010
Response by poster: I want to thank everyone for taking the time out to read my super long posting and comment on it. foxjacket nailed it when he/she said that I wasn't listening. Well, I'm so inexperienced that I wasn't even sure what "casual" means because in my definition, casual would be how every relationship start out, before bf/gf are defined, but in my world, casual would have the potential to move into something more if things go well.
I kept seeing him partly because I was attracted to him and I so wanted this relationship, especially my first relationship, would evolved into a real relationship where we can be bf/gf. I wanted the physical intimacy, but I don't want to do it with him under the fwb context and especially if he's primarily with me for sex. I'm still working out my emotions at the moment. The past two weeks has been rough, but reading the comments here gave me a fresh perspective on things and I appreciate all the insights that the Ask.Metafilter community has shared with me. Thank you.
posted by wcmf at 1:27 PM on March 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I kept seeing him partly because I was attracted to him and I so wanted this relationship, especially my first relationship, would evolved into a real relationship where we can be bf/gf. I wanted the physical intimacy, but I don't want to do it with him under the fwb context and especially if he's primarily with me for sex. I'm still working out my emotions at the moment. The past two weeks has been rough, but reading the comments here gave me a fresh perspective on things and I appreciate all the insights that the Ask.Metafilter community has shared with me. Thank you.
posted by wcmf at 1:27 PM on March 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Some posters defining her sexuality was, in my opinion, another no no. There are many women in her shoes. We should not make assumptions for her. Unless you've been that type of girl growing up, you'll never understand where she's coming from. I'm like you in some ways. I'm caught between wanting to have sex with a male friend but I feel more valued if it's in a relationship. But 'cause of the way I grew up, where I worked all the time and my parents made it extremely hard for me to date, I grew with the virgin mentality of saving it, not for marriage but a great relationship. I'm taking my own path to kind of undo that programming because I want to live my life without making sex too much of a big deal but it's emotional connection is ingrained in me. I try to make relationships work after I have sex with men. Not the best approach but trust you're doing the right thing for. I would agree what others have been saying as far as being busy. For me, I'm busy with a whole ton of stuff in my respective field but I get out and date as much as I can. I'll use the "I'm busy" thing with guys I'm not all that into. So, if you would like to have another great connection with a person ready for a relationship... play the field a bit and get experience.
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 8:51 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 8:51 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by rhizome at 9:18 AM on March 4, 2010