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October 28, 2009 12:27 PM Subscribe
Is gasoline vegan?
This post was deleted for the following reason: make an effort please, thank you. -- jessamyn
To most vegans, it applies to things like leather shoes and tallow or beeswax candles. That said, the dinosaurs experienced no human caused suffering in order to become oil.
posted by idiopath at 12:32 PM on October 28, 2009
posted by idiopath at 12:32 PM on October 28, 2009
Vegan applies to food and drink.
Not necessarily. It is a term also used to market man-made shoes, clothes, mattresses and all kinds of health and cosmetics products.
posted by halogen at 12:33 PM on October 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
Not necessarily. It is a term also used to market man-made shoes, clothes, mattresses and all kinds of health and cosmetics products.
posted by halogen at 12:33 PM on October 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
That's like asking, "Are nails kosher?"
Not food. Doesn't matter.
But, if you're wondering about it being vegan in a vegan shoes/clothes kind of way, I think it is. There's nothing to say that your oil is made strictly from dinosaurs.
posted by Jon-o at 12:35 PM on October 28, 2009
Not food. Doesn't matter.
But, if you're wondering about it being vegan in a vegan shoes/clothes kind of way, I think it is. There's nothing to say that your oil is made strictly from dinosaurs.
posted by Jon-o at 12:35 PM on October 28, 2009
I'm pretty sure there are no animal by-products used in gasoline.
posted by GuyZero at 12:36 PM on October 28, 2009
posted by GuyZero at 12:36 PM on October 28, 2009
The vast majority of organic matter that contributed to the biogenesis of petroleum was algae and zooplankton. There really aren't many (any?) dinosaurs in there. So is zooplankton vegan? I don't know...
posted by mr_roboto at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by mr_roboto at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
Jesus Christ on stilts. Look - 1) vegan pertains to food and drink - and to a lesser extent clothing, etc. 2) veganism is really more about intention that all of this nit-picky nonsense, and 3) these sorts of delimiting denotations of this is and this is not vegan are not that interesting.
Every vegan takes the extent of their veganism to different extremes. For example, it could be argued that walking isn't vegan since technically you are probably stepping on thousands and millions of micro-organisms. Or that this certain artichoke isn't vegan because it came from a farm that is owned by a guy who won the farm during a steak eating contest and therefore an animal was harmed in the production of the artichoke and therefore it isn't vegan. Any freshman in a philosophy class can do the whole ad absurdum thing w/r/t veganism. Who cares?
Now, if I knew that a certain oil company was slaughtering cattle and throwing them into the oil vats to, I dunno, make the oil better, I would probably not purchase gas made from that oil. Then again, my veganism stems from energy conservation, so I don't generally buy much gasoline at all.
IN GENERAL - vegans drive cars, give blowjobs, etc...
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2009 [6 favorites]
Every vegan takes the extent of their veganism to different extremes. For example, it could be argued that walking isn't vegan since technically you are probably stepping on thousands and millions of micro-organisms. Or that this certain artichoke isn't vegan because it came from a farm that is owned by a guy who won the farm during a steak eating contest and therefore an animal was harmed in the production of the artichoke and therefore it isn't vegan. Any freshman in a philosophy class can do the whole ad absurdum thing w/r/t veganism. Who cares?
Now, if I knew that a certain oil company was slaughtering cattle and throwing them into the oil vats to, I dunno, make the oil better, I would probably not purchase gas made from that oil. Then again, my veganism stems from energy conservation, so I don't generally buy much gasoline at all.
IN GENERAL - vegans drive cars, give blowjobs, etc...
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2009 [6 favorites]
Yes, gasoline is vegan, because it comes from ancient plants, not ancient animals.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2009
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2009
The hydrocarbons used in making gasoline are originally sourced from shale layers. The organic molecules here are largely plankton, algae, or terrestrial plant material.
If you wanna stretch the definition, my money's on vegan.
posted by cr_joe at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2009
If you wanna stretch the definition, my money's on vegan.
posted by cr_joe at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2009
From Wikipedia: "Veganism is a diet and lifestyle that seeks to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose."
Anyway, "Today's oil formed from the preserved remains of prehistoric zooplankton and algae, which had settled to a sea or lake bottom in large quantities under anoxic conditions (the remains of prehistoric terrestrial plants, on the other hand, tended to form coal)."
Zooplankton includes both protozoans (not really animals) but also metazoans like jellyfish, krill, etc, which are pretty undeniably animals, albeit not very complex ones. At the highest end of zooplankton are small juvenile fish.
On the other hand, the animals that became oil were not raised or killed for the purpose, they became oil without human intervention, and they are no longer recognizably animal, so one couldn't even argue that it's a desecration of their body or somesuch thing. This last point is contrast to, for example, using the skin of a naturally deceased animal to make leather.
On the third hand, the use of gasoline and the associated extraction and refining industries causes substantial harm to the environment and the animals therein, which generally runs against vegan principles.
posted by jedicus at 12:38 PM on October 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
Anyway, "Today's oil formed from the preserved remains of prehistoric zooplankton and algae, which had settled to a sea or lake bottom in large quantities under anoxic conditions (the remains of prehistoric terrestrial plants, on the other hand, tended to form coal)."
Zooplankton includes both protozoans (not really animals) but also metazoans like jellyfish, krill, etc, which are pretty undeniably animals, albeit not very complex ones. At the highest end of zooplankton are small juvenile fish.
On the other hand, the animals that became oil were not raised or killed for the purpose, they became oil without human intervention, and they are no longer recognizably animal, so one couldn't even argue that it's a desecration of their body or somesuch thing. This last point is contrast to, for example, using the skin of a naturally deceased animal to make leather.
On the third hand, the use of gasoline and the associated extraction and refining industries causes substantial harm to the environment and the animals therein, which generally runs against vegan principles.
posted by jedicus at 12:38 PM on October 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
Also, I would think, in terms of the proportions of biomass ingredients that eventually became oil, dinosaurs constituted a tiny fraction, compared to the much greater mass of vegetation, so that it's like worrying about eating broccoli because a couple insects died during harvesting. No vegan I know goes to that Jain-like extreme.
posted by aught at 12:39 PM on October 28, 2009
posted by aught at 12:39 PM on October 28, 2009
Hrm. In some sense, it would not be, as it is derived from petroleum, which is in turn verty slightly derived from animal products.
The difficulty here is in the scope of the derivation. We're talking about a product made a little bit from dead animal matter, sourced from animals who perished some millions of years ago. Should you stick to your guns with that definition, then much of the plant matter on earth was also derived from dead animal matter. That carbon doesn't just magically disappear.
I would therefore classify gasoline as being just as vegan as plant material which had, anywhere in the history of the atoms composing it, any dead animal material as nutrients.
Real vegans eat only plants which can be obtained by visiting the parallel universe animal-free Earth we call PlantWorld. Now, ask me if I am part Jesus. There's a lot of molecules which have been transubstantiated over time!
posted by adipocere at 12:39 PM on October 28, 2009 [4 favorites]
The difficulty here is in the scope of the derivation. We're talking about a product made a little bit from dead animal matter, sourced from animals who perished some millions of years ago. Should you stick to your guns with that definition, then much of the plant matter on earth was also derived from dead animal matter. That carbon doesn't just magically disappear.
I would therefore classify gasoline as being just as vegan as plant material which had, anywhere in the history of the atoms composing it, any dead animal material as nutrients.
Real vegans eat only plants which can be obtained by visiting the parallel universe animal-free Earth we call PlantWorld. Now, ask me if I am part Jesus. There's a lot of molecules which have been transubstantiated over time!
posted by adipocere at 12:39 PM on October 28, 2009 [4 favorites]
Real vegans eat only plants which can be obtained by visiting the parallel universe animal-free Earth we call PlantWorld. Now, ask me if I am part Jesus. There's a lot of molecules which have been transubstantiated over time!
You snark, but this is precisely what I mean. If I met a vegan who was going on about gasoline and ancient phytoplankton I would bitch slap them (well, at least in my mind). I mean, I have bazillions of atoms in my body right now that very likely came from cattle living in antediluvian Yemen (or something, IANAPP). Beliefs and convictions, like explanations, must come to an end somewhere. In this case that usually means flesh, dairy, eggs and skin.
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
You snark, but this is precisely what I mean. If I met a vegan who was going on about gasoline and ancient phytoplankton I would bitch slap them (well, at least in my mind). I mean, I have bazillions of atoms in my body right now that very likely came from cattle living in antediluvian Yemen (or something, IANAPP). Beliefs and convictions, like explanations, must come to an end somewhere. In this case that usually means flesh, dairy, eggs and skin.
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
Vegan applies to food and drink.
You shouldn't drink gasoline. Ever.
You shouldn't eat a fur coat either, but is that vegan? Nope.
I mean, you're free to use "vegan" in the narrow sense of just food and drink if you want. But I think it's pretty clear the OP isn't using it in that sense.
posted by Jaltcoh at 12:48 PM on October 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
You shouldn't drink gasoline. Ever.
You shouldn't eat a fur coat either, but is that vegan? Nope.
I mean, you're free to use "vegan" in the narrow sense of just food and drink if you want. But I think it's pretty clear the OP isn't using it in that sense.
posted by Jaltcoh at 12:48 PM on October 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
While this is undoubtedly flamebait, it's as vegan as breast milk. While there are vegans concerned with health detriment of ingesting animal flesh, the chief "animal rights" aspect of it is the taking of a life and treatment of animals in farming and hunting situations. These animals died of natural causes (or a meteorite, or a fight or whatever), and are now oil. They weren't killed by an oil tycoon and put in the ground to rot for a million years.
posted by CharlesV42 at 12:50 PM on October 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by CharlesV42 at 12:50 PM on October 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
My Logic flow for this.
Are the assorted plankton types which eventually become fossil fuels plants or animals? If they are considered plants then gasoline is vegan
If Animal Does an animal that has been dead for several thousand years and converted to a totally different type of material still count as animal matter? If yes then its not vegan if no then it is vegan.
posted by bitdamaged at 12:51 PM on October 28, 2009
Are the assorted plankton types which eventually become fossil fuels plants or animals? If they are considered plants then gasoline is vegan
If Animal Does an animal that has been dead for several thousand years and converted to a totally different type of material still count as animal matter? If yes then its not vegan if no then it is vegan.
posted by bitdamaged at 12:51 PM on October 28, 2009
Jaltcoh: "Vegan applies to food and drink.
You shouldn't drink gasoline. Ever.
You shouldn't eat a fur coat either, but is that vegan? Nope.
I mean, you're free to use "vegan" in the narrow sense of just food and drink if you want. But I think it's pretty clear the OP isn't using it in that sense."
I was just being a bit smarmy. Of course I recognize the fuller definition of veganism. I honestly thought the original question was a joke at first.
posted by sharkfu at 1:23 PM on October 28, 2009
You shouldn't drink gasoline. Ever.
You shouldn't eat a fur coat either, but is that vegan? Nope.
I mean, you're free to use "vegan" in the narrow sense of just food and drink if you want. But I think it's pretty clear the OP isn't using it in that sense."
I was just being a bit smarmy. Of course I recognize the fuller definition of veganism. I honestly thought the original question was a joke at first.
posted by sharkfu at 1:23 PM on October 28, 2009
If the question you're asking is "Are any animal byproducts used in the production of gasoline?" the answer is "not from animals that have been alive for millions of years."
I know vegans who don't use glue made with animal byproducts, and I admire their consistency. I know vegans who don't drink wine fined with either eggshells or isinglass, and I admire their consistency. I know vegans who go to some lengths to ensure that they don't buy things made with casein plastics, and I kind of admire their consistency and kind of think "Holy crap, who has the time for this?"
But all y'all vegans are pikers compared to orthodox Jain religious of the Digambara sect, because they eschew agriculture (farming kills insects) and they sweep the ground gently with a broom as they walk to avoid stepping on insects.
In other vegan news, Bronson Alcott made his daughters (including Little Women author Louisa May Alcott) pull the plow on their communal farm, because it was cruel to the oxen to make them pull. You can see why her ideal father was someone who was away in the war!
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:40 PM on October 28, 2009
I know vegans who don't use glue made with animal byproducts, and I admire their consistency. I know vegans who don't drink wine fined with either eggshells or isinglass, and I admire their consistency. I know vegans who go to some lengths to ensure that they don't buy things made with casein plastics, and I kind of admire their consistency and kind of think "Holy crap, who has the time for this?"
But all y'all vegans are pikers compared to orthodox Jain religious of the Digambara sect, because they eschew agriculture (farming kills insects) and they sweep the ground gently with a broom as they walk to avoid stepping on insects.
In other vegan news, Bronson Alcott made his daughters (including Little Women author Louisa May Alcott) pull the plow on their communal farm, because it was cruel to the oxen to make them pull. You can see why her ideal father was someone who was away in the war!
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:40 PM on October 28, 2009
Correct me if I'm wrong, but while gasoline may be "vegan", some of the infrastructure involved in delivering it would likely not be. I guess Vegans would have to be OK with that though, or they'd have to start insisting that the people that grow their fruits and vegetables not wear leather or use animal byproducts too.
posted by JaredSeth at 1:45 PM on October 28, 2009
posted by JaredSeth at 1:45 PM on October 28, 2009
I would also think that any zooplankton that may have been part of what became petroleum would be about equivalent in size to the mites that are on the vegetable food we eat every day.
posted by condour75 at 1:54 PM on October 28, 2009
posted by condour75 at 1:54 PM on October 28, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
You shouldn't drink gasoline. Ever.
posted by sharkfu at 12:29 PM on October 28, 2009 [6 favorites]