Questions about Alan Moore's Watchman

January 3, 2005 5:33 PM

Just finished reading Watchmen for about the fiftieth time... what an amazing book. {questions inside}

what most struck you about the book, what did you like the best / think was the coolest?

what do you guys make of the ending, is the journal to be published, undoing the peace?

what is up with Nixon??

and most importantly, does anyone know of any books, shows, comics, etc even remotely similar or nearly as good, i.e. if you liked Watchmen you would like this?

Thanks

posted by ac to writing & language (58 comments total)

I love this book myself.
Have you seen The Annotated Watchmen site? Pretty f'n amazing.

As for stuff that is "as good" - I like some of Alan Moore's other works - From Hell is amazing, but nothing is really "as good" as The Watchmen. A classic in every sense.
posted by Quartermass at 5:51 PM on January 3, 2005

Nobody writes superheroes quite like Alan Moore. Go right now and pick up Top Ten and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:58 PM on January 3, 2005

...and From Hell!
posted by interrobang at 5:59 PM on January 3, 2005

I really enjoyed Preacher, but there are tons of volumes of it. See if your library has it.
posted by interrobang at 6:01 PM on January 3, 2005

I'd write about what struck me most, but I can't think of what I can say that won't be a spoiler for the lucky ones who have yet to read it. Except maybe that issue #6 is amazing. ac, I think you might have said a little too much.

I know of nothing remotely as good. On preview, Top Ten is indeed very good, as is Astro City. But they're not at all in the same vein. Someone once told me that if I liked Watchmen I would like Kingdom Come. That was a lie. I look forward to other people's suggestions.
posted by escabeche at 6:06 PM on January 3, 2005

...also, Nixon's there because Watchmen takes place in an alternate reality where Nixon won the Vietnam War with the help of Doctor Manhattan and essentially got himself elected President for Life.
posted by interrobang at 6:06 PM on January 3, 2005

For the sake of context, you might want to look into back issues of Captain Atom, Blue Beetle and The Question. All three were among the characters acquired by DC Comics when they bought out Carlton Comics' Action Hero line. While all three were given their own DC series, they were also used by Alan Moore as story fodder. Atom inspired Dr Manhattan, Beetle became Niteowl and The Question was remade as Rorschach.
posted by grabbingsand at 6:20 PM on January 3, 2005

Or, if you look at it another way, Superman inspired Dr. Manhattan, and Batman's duality (scientist and vigilante) became Niteowl and Rorschach.

I've always wanted to read "The Question". Is it good?
posted by interrobang at 6:24 PM on January 3, 2005

I'd take Ennis' run on Hellblazer, which comes roaring out of the gate with the excellent "Dangerous Habits" story arc, over any of his Preacher storylines. (John Constantine, coincidentally, also a Moore character from Swamp Thing).

Any of Gaiman's Sandman, the "Season of Mists" arc in particular, is as good as Watchmen.

If you're looking for stories like Watchmen, you're probably not going to find many. Watchmen was one of a few noteworthy titles that tried to change the man in tights/woman with big tits image of the medium. I'd suggest Grant Morrison's two titles about teams of heroes: Doom Patrol and The Invisibles if you're looking for something comparable to Watchmen. They are creepy and queer and take the X-Men template to an entirely differenly level. Neither of them garnered the explosive reaction most people had to Watchmen when it was released. Watchmen had a time and a place and definitely made a mark.
posted by eyeballkid at 6:40 PM on January 3, 2005

...and From Hell!

I'd never neglect From Hell, but I was trying to focus on Moore's superhero comics. So yes, read From Hell also. Suffice it to say that anything written by Alan Moore is, even at his least, worth the time you spend reading it.

Someone once told me that if I liked Watchmen I would like Kingdom Come. That was a lie.

Now, now, don't be hatin' on Kingdom Come. Yes, it pales in direct comparison to Watchmen (doesn't almost everything?), but as an examination of the iconic qualities of DC's principal characters, it's hard to beat. I recommend it. In a similar vein, I hate to speak ill of the dead, but I was very disappointed by the late Mark Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme.

I'd suggest Grant Morrison's two titles about teams of heroes:

His Animal Man run is also very good. You can detect a major influence from Moore's Swamp Thing.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:48 PM on January 3, 2005

I recently read "How To Read Superhero Comics and Why" by Geoff Klock and would recommend it for anyone looking for some meatier commentary on the development of the superhero comic book. He focuses on the Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns and does a reallly good job of sketching out why and how these books are revolutionary within the genre and he also works with some of the more recent developments in superheroes, including Planetary and the Authority.

It's filled with a good bit of literary theory mumbo-jumbo, but those parts are easily skipped.
posted by rks404 at 6:53 PM on January 3, 2005

You'll probably like V for Vendetta as well (more info here)
posted by jazon at 6:54 PM on January 3, 2005

What struck me most? I no longer recall what struck me most at the time I read it (spring break of '88), but it really stuck with me. It was on my mind all the time. It led to, coincidentally or not, what Nietzsche would have called a transvaluation of values for me. I guess it helped me become idealogically aware. Besides that, the night I re-read *just* the Tales of the Black Freighter passages and noticed just how thoroughly the sequences resonated with everything that happens just before and/or after them, which just completely blew my mind. Then comic artist Craig Hamilton pointed out to me how "Fearful Symmetry" is itself symmetrical. Damn; this is literally the most impressive and life changing book I've ever read.

The ending? I think it's that way for a reason. Remember, "nothing ever ends."

Nixon? If Dr. Manhattan had shown up as an American tool under Jimmy Carter's presidency, he'd still be in office. (Or whichever president you can imagine.)

Other works? Nothing's ever had that sort of effect on me. Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth" came close, though, in terms of insights and allusions for me to go research. Another 'mind expander' was the encyclopedia "Man, Myth & Magic." And "Foucault's Pendulum." Finally, I hope you haven't already read Warren Ellis' "Planetary," since that would mean you still get to have the pleasure of reading it for the first time!
posted by kimota at 7:00 PM on January 3, 2005

I liked batman the dark knight returns at about the same time, for something more recent you might try Fray.
posted by milovoo at 7:26 PM on January 3, 2005

maybe have a look at sam kieth's work on the maxx.
a very different type of thing from watchmen, but still poking around at the boundaries of genre expectations.
posted by juv3nal at 7:43 PM on January 3, 2005

V for Vendeta is probably the closest experience that you'll find.

The Sandman is a completely different experience altogether, but (in my opinion) is the finest comic book writing ever produced.

By the way, you do know that they're making a movie adaptation, right? Current rumors are that John Cusack will be Nite-Owl, Sigourney Weaver as the Silk Spectre (older), and Daniel Craig will play Rorschach.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:53 PM on January 3, 2005

What struck me most was the multiple levels of interweaving - and how they were using every bit of power at hand to further the story - visual iconography repeated at different levels, multiple storylines weaved together, Powerful characters you could identify with, a troubling world they have to deal with, a plausible storyline (within their world). Calling deeply on historical, poetic and pop-culture themes, without showing their hand. Just really well-done. And I agree that there's really nothing else in the same league. I think I'll have to re-read it now.
posted by kokogiak at 7:58 PM on January 3, 2005

A few months ago, I found the entire mid-80s run of The Question on eBay for under $20. This was a no-brainer, the quickest bid I've ever made. The writing is consistently excellent, though the art goes through phases. The Question was created for Charlton by Steve Ditko and Denny O'Neil took care of the scripting for DC, so the characters and plots were pretty choice. I wish that DC would publish the run as a series of trades.

Now, if you're asking about the new series, then I will have to reserve judgement. To me, it lacks the good grit of the 80s run, replacing moral dilemmas and deep noir with pseudo-philosophizing, but we're still early and it might pick up speed.
posted by grabbingsand at 8:28 PM on January 3, 2005

I'll second Morrison's Animal Man run for being somewhat similar.

For another series that deals with the psychology of superheroes with several story arcs, James Robinson's Starman was really good.

If you want incredibly in depth story telling without superheroes, try Locas. It's a bit expensive right now but it's worth it.
posted by drezdn at 8:49 PM on January 3, 2005

That movie has been in pre-production for about ten years. I'll believe it when I see it.
posted by bingo at 8:58 PM on January 3, 2005

If it's anything like "From Hell" or "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", it'll suck anyway.

One of the great things about "Watchmen"--and most of Moore's work--is that it cannot be anything but comics. The art and writing are inextricably intertwined, and neither can succeed without the other.

Movies just aren't Moore's medium, and he's never had anything to do with a movie made out of one of his books.
posted by interrobang at 9:21 PM on January 3, 2005

I humbly offer my disagreement in quicktime format. While not Moore, it's one of those comics everyone said "couldn't be done in movie format". It looks kick-punch-bite-smack-ass.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:46 PM on January 3, 2005

I should mention here that the guy who wrote the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen script (James Robinson) is also a talented comic book writer. I'd like to think he wasn't responsible for LXG.
posted by drezdn at 9:49 PM on January 3, 2005

LXG makes me burn with shame. I had a bunch of friends in literature graduate programs who I thought would love all the Victorian allusions in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, but who I knew would not read the comics (and would probably be put off by the violence anyway). When I found out the movie was being made, I heartily encouraged them all to see it. I wanted to be associated with Moore's genius. Instead, I became associated with... that.
posted by painquale at 10:10 PM on January 3, 2005

I'll second The Maxx. Possibly one of the best comics I've ever read, and I *loved* Watchmen.
posted by bshort at 10:26 PM on January 3, 2005

1. I used to teach high school debate students about the difference between deontological ethics and utilitarianism by contrasting Rorshach with Adrian Veidt. This theme is my favorite.

2. Like kimota said, nothing ever ends. It's intentionally ambiguous.

3. The question isn't clear enough.

4. Nope.
posted by jeffmshaw at 10:42 PM on January 3, 2005

For shows, I'd say Lost would be up there, they both seem to have that incredibly tight scripting.

The thing that probably frustrates me the most about Watchmen (to answer your first question) is that the colors are absolutely terrible. Yes, there is the advantage that this makes it look more like other comic books, but, considering that Watchmen is one of the best stories told in the comic book medium, it's hard to give to people, because many are turned off by how the art looks.

Also, for another suggestion... Grant Morrison's run on Doom Patrol. Not necessarily his best work, and weirder than Watchmen, but definitely touching on similar issues.

(one caveat, I haven't read Watchmen in several years, though I intend to buy a new copy. I am, however, an avid reader of Graphic Novels).
posted by drezdn at 10:51 PM on January 3, 2005

1 - I loved the cinematography. The colors being drawn from Lichtenstein were perhaps not the best choice, but the camerawork was masterful, moving from the social to the personal to the emotive to the narrative with nary a sour note. [on preview: what drezdn said]

2 - i suspect the journals are to be published, and ignored, as the ravings of a madman -- taken about as seriously as some pirate comic book.

3 - Nixon had Dr. Manhattan to win the war (but the Comedian to make it worse), but after Watergate, he had to stay in office. With superheroes fighting for the US, Russia and China stay allied (textual evidence? hell, I forget if it's there) and the nuclear standoff gets worse, not better (wasn't there a nuke set off in Hanoi or something utterly crazy like that? my copy is in storage). Of course, he was already half-mad, and that only got worse, too.

4 - Cerebus, phonebooks 1 through (oh) 6, but especially "High Society" and "Church & State". Sim kept the series going for 300 but I'm one of the many who gave up on his abstruse approach (not to mention incipient fascism and sexism) long before that. In the heyday of the title, though, he was simply brilliant (and does a lot of comics scene in-jokes). The reference genre here is "funny animal" crossed with "fantasy swordplay", though, not superheroes.
posted by dhartung at 11:15 PM on January 3, 2005

For similar experiences, I also recommend The Invisibles (just plain ruling) and V For Vendetta (a little close to home these days...).

Once, I accidentally started reading The Watchmen backwards, and kept going. That was an interesting thing.
posted by majcher at 11:24 PM on January 3, 2005

more re: the maxx
forgot to mention. the video/movie version is good in its own right even if only for barry stigler's voice work as mr. gone: so deliciously evil.
posted by juv3nal at 11:25 PM on January 3, 2005

grabbingsand reminded me of another rarish book that might be worth checking out. I loved "eddy currant" by Ted McKeever. It was a great twisted superhero tale, but it's pretty tough to track down these days.

You also might try "mage" by Matt Wagner.

Also, maybe I'm way off here, but I found the classic "crisis on infinite Earths" to be a decent yarn.
posted by milovoo at 1:09 AM on January 4, 2005

You might also want to give Nexus a try, if you can find old issues of it (it can be somewhat hard to find, and they're not printing new issues, as far as I can tell.

I think "From Hell" is Moore's finest work, and "Watchmen" a close second. If the "tormented superhero" angle works for you, I strongly recommend Nexus. It's about the son of a mass murderer who kills mass murderers. Except more complex than that, and with jive-talking robots.
posted by rocketman at 4:36 AM on January 4, 2005

I have to add that I love the colors in "Watchmen" and don't know why everybody's gotta hate on that.

If you can believe it, the art in Nexus is better.
posted by rocketman at 4:38 AM on January 4, 2005

Or, if you look at it another way, Superman inspired Dr. Manhattan, and Batman's duality (scientist and vigilante) became Niteowl and Rorschach.

interrobang: Do you mean that they were the inspiration for the other characters which were then transformed into the Watchmen characters. Otherwise, the characters grabbingsand mentions can be definitively linked to their alteregos in Watchmen as noted here.

ac: you might try out the early Alan Moore penned 'Ballad of Halo Jones'
posted by biffa at 5:24 AM on January 4, 2005

Superman inspired Dr. Manhattan, and Batman's duality (scientist and vigilante) became Niteowl and Rorschach.

Actually, Moore had specific characters in mind when he wrote Watchmen -- namely, the DC's Charlton superheroes. Because DC balked at letting Moore have free reign over the characters' fate, Moore ended up inventing characters that were remarkably similar to the Charlton superhereos.

The Question -> Rorschach
The Peacemaker -> The Comedian
The Blue Beetle (and the later remake) -> Nite Owl
Thunderbolt -> Ozymandias
Captain Atom -> Dr. Manhattan
Nightshade -> Silk Spectre

Whoops, missed that link, biffa.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:46 AM on January 4, 2005

I loved Starman, though the LXG film made me cringe as well. Oh, I see he's doing Hot Wheels now. Oh, dear.

The Millar and Ellis runs on The Authority, while VERY different in tone from Watchmen, are extremely entertaining and tackle the whole "how would superheroes actually operate in the real world?" idea well.

And yeah, read anything by Grant Morrison. ANYTHING.
posted by mkultra at 6:51 AM on January 4, 2005

The first 20 or so issues of Warren Ellise's "The Authority" got to me the same way. I also enjoyed the "Wildcards" series of mosaic novels edited by George R. R. Martin. There is something about superheroes who get divorces, have to watch their weight, and wonder if what they are doing is right or wrong, that makes it all so real and compelling to me!
posted by Megafly at 7:09 AM on January 4, 2005

You also might try "mage" by Matt Wagner.

Definitely. Also his original run of Grendel for Comico (everything up to Warchild basically) is utterly phenomenal.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:36 AM on January 4, 2005

I enjoyed Neil Gaiman's Marvel 1602. Definitely a different take on superheroes, with familiar Marvel characters incarnated in Elizabethan England. It's no Watchmen, but has the multi-layered plotting and sociopolitical take on supers of that book. Only elemental knowledge of Marvel characters is needed to enjoy it.
posted by barjo at 8:18 AM on January 4, 2005

I remember Cmdr Rick doing a whole episode of Prisoners of Gravity about Watchmen. I wish I could get my hands on that.
...blew up the ozone layer today...
posted by Capn at 8:20 AM on January 4, 2005

How could you have overlooked the chance to say, {Moore inside}?!
posted by SPrintF at 8:24 AM on January 4, 2005

Interrobang, let me second the notion that the 80s run on the Question was seriously good. The art tended to be weak, but the stories overall were decent. Plus there was a recommended reading list in the letter columns! There was an issue where a single comment, "I'm not in a position to do anything," literally changed my life! This new series isn't anything to write home about.

I forgot to recommend Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing, which is as good as pretty much anything else he's done. His Miracleman (aka Marvelman) was also an eye-opener for me in its treatment of big ideas and 'widescreen' action.

If anyone's going to mention the TV series "Lost," then I feel obliged to mention "Desperate Housewives," only insofar as I think the writing/pacing/plotting for individual episodes and the series as a whole is quite impressive. Disclaimer: I have the hots for both Teri Hatcher and Marcia Cross, so that could be warping my thinking.

Finally, I just saw the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen on DVD this weekend. One of the special features makes it sound as though the movie was developed from the original treatment that Moore pitched the series with. If that was the case (that the point of departure between series and movie started that far back and wasn't an attempt by Robinson or the studios to dumb it down, make it more exciting, etc.), then I'm inclined to cut the movie some slack. That said, it *still* isn't much of a movie.
posted by kimota at 8:26 AM on January 4, 2005

Civil_Disobedient, Daniel Craig would be a relief after some of the suggestions I've heard for Rorschach. It really should be someone without a lot of exposure, and Craig seems to have the chops to do well with it. And Greengrass replacing Aronofsky is probably a good thing: I'm not convinced Aronofsky had the large-scale vision for Watchmen. But there are so many unsubstantiated rumors circulating around that production that I'll believe it when I see it.

As for comic to screen adaptation, I think the failure is more likely to be one of the "Hollywood" system than anything else. Brilliant anime (and even live-action) have been made from manga for decades.

Now, as for something to match Watchmen in comic form.... Well, I can't think of anything. The aforementioned run of Hellraiser is good, yeh, the original run of Grendel was good but unsatisfying.

I would suggest two things:

First, find english translation reprints of Lone Wolf and Cub.

Second, find the reprint collections for the first few years of Love and Rockets, and especially the "Maggie the Mechanic" stories. It's still some of the most engaging retro-futurism I can think of. ("Retro-futurism" may not even be the right term, but I don't know what would be. Calling it a "chicano science-fiction wrestling soap-opera comic" doesn't have the same weirdness-factor it did in 1984.)
posted by lodurr at 8:38 AM on January 4, 2005

kimota: I find the very idea of having the hots for Marcia Cross to be quite disturbing. Which is why I'm seriously considering therapy.... Marcia Marcia Marcia .....
posted by lodurr at 8:41 AM on January 4, 2005

A hearty third (fourth?) here for V for Vendetta. My dad lives in Somerset and every few months I drive past Larkhill and think "resettlement camp" with a wry smile.

What continues to strike me most is the extraordinary impression that Watchmen makes even on those who'd otherwise be strangers to the genre. I travelled through Asia with my uber-sensible, biochemist, then-girlfriend who'd rather die than even consider reading a comic book. She'd consumed Watchmen within a couple of days of arriving. I'd be astonished if she's read a graphic novel since.
posted by dmt at 8:43 AM on January 4, 2005

The superhero as fascist theme kind of hit me like a slap in the face when I first read the book.

I think Rorschach's journal would make for a nice little stain on Veidt's brave new world, once published. I like to think that Veidt and Rorschach were two sides of the same coin. Both succeeded through an indomitable will, but one decided to see the world as it was, which drove him mad, while the other saw it as an ideal and lived in a comfortable world of megalomania.

Did anyone else think that Rorschach unmasked kind of ressembled an Archie (of Riverdale) who had fallen on hard times?
posted by picea at 9:14 AM on January 4, 2005

My favorite of the recent Alan Moore series is Promethea, which has a heavy occult bent and some fantastically trippy art.
posted by muckster at 9:42 AM on January 4, 2005

I loved Starman, though the LXG film made me cringe as well.

"Have a nice day!"
"Uuup yurrs, aaahsshole!"

That movie cracks me up.

But there are so many unsubstantiated rumors circulating around that production that I'll believe it when I see it.

Same here. Like Gaiman's stuff, it needs more than 1.5 hours. Maybe if it were handled episodically, like LOTR? I dunno. There'd have to have a hell of a lot of confidence in the director.

Did anyone else think that Rorschach unmasked kind of ressembled an Archie (of Riverdale) who had fallen on hard times?

Yes, very much.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:23 AM on January 4, 2005

Watchmen is pretty good, as long as you skip 90% of the stuff about pirate comics. (The first 10% is fine to remind you once again that this isn't our world, but it just goes on and on.) If you're like me, every time you re-read the book you've forgotten about the pirates, simply because they're the most forgettable part, and are annoyed to run into them again.
posted by kindall at 10:29 AM on January 4, 2005

Same here. Like Gaiman's stuff, it needs more than 1.5 hours. Maybe if it were handled episodically, like LOTR?

The ideal format for Watchmen would be a commercial free 12 part TV mini-series. I've always visualized something akin to The Singing Detective (kinda similar works in some ways). It needs those episodic chapters to work right.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:57 AM on January 4, 2005

Speaking of famous comic-authors-whose-work-was-turned-into-a-miniseries, has anyone seen the BBC production of Neverwhere? I would like to know if they pulled it off or not.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:28 PM on January 4, 2005

Speaking of famous comic-authors-whose-work-was-turned-into-a-miniseries, has anyone seen the BBC production of Neverwhere? I would like to know if they pulled it off or not.

Seen it. It's not half bad, although Neil has rightly compared the BBC to a sausage machine: It doesn't matter what you put in one end; you get Doctor Who out the other. Keep in mind, though, that the miniseries was produced before Neil adapted his own screenplay into a novel.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:43 PM on January 4, 2005

[BBC Adaptation of Neverwhere]

I'd have to disagree with the Butt and say that it was most-ways completely bad. The casting was great actually, but the pacing was horrible (there wasn't any). The effects, well, were a rather large step down from the Dr. Who standard. The terrible Beast was a small, muddy, rather confused cow that would have looked far more at home on the Darling Buds May set (a pig would have been a much better choice---it's not much of a stretch for sows to be evil incarnate). I really felt for the actors, whom I thought did a great job, but was left with a strong desire to beat the director and especially the editors senseless with a cast-iron frying pan.
posted by bonehead at 1:47 PM on January 4, 2005

There were a _lot_ of things that impressed me about Watchmen, most of which it has in any common with any other awesome book--great story, sharp characterizations, crisp narrative, etc.

The one thing that has _always_ stuck with me as unique to that book, though (I read it in the single compiled volume) was the depth of complexity and consistency between the levels of what was written and what was drawn.

In a lot of ways, this is just seconding kokogiak's comment, but it wasn't until the fourth or fifth time I read through the book that it really struck me how many times--in a single frame--the visual scene would echo, expand or somehow comment on what was being said. Sometimes it was really "meaningful", and other times you'd realize that there it was just some visual pun, but you could clearly tell that Gibbons was constantly looking at what Moore had written, and thought of ways to amplify or respond to it in the art. I've never read another book that struck me with so close a marriage of the visual and the textual like that.
posted by LairBob at 4:55 PM on January 4, 2005

but you could clearly tell that Gibbons was constantly looking at what Moore had written, and thought of ways to amplify or respond to it in the art.

Not to downplay Gibbons' contribution, but Alan Moore provided a very detailed script for Watchmen, right down to very precise panel layouts and descriptions (as he does for most of his series). Most of those brilliant layers came from him. A lot of them can be found in embryonic form in his Swamp Thing run that Dave Gibbons had no part of.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 5:20 PM on January 4, 2005

You may well be right, PST--I thought his Swamp Thing series was amazing, too, and while it didn't have quite the same almost baroque level of visual/textual consonance, I wouldn't be surprised if it was primarily Moore's doing.
posted by LairBob at 5:29 PM on January 4, 2005

I've never read another book that struck me with so close a marriage of the visual and the textual like that.

you might want to take a look at dave mack's painted kabuki stuff for another take on a synergistic marriage of text/art. not as subtle as watchmen but still interesting.
posted by juv3nal at 7:44 PM on January 4, 2005

Not to downplay Gibbons' contribution, but Alan Moore provided a very detailed script for Watchmen, right down to very precise panel layouts and descriptions (as he does for most of his series).

Alan Moore is notorious for writing insanely detailed panel descriptions that can go on for pages. Some artists have resented it, thinking that he's trying to dictate to them what to draw, but the ones who have collaborated best with Moore (such as Gibbons and Eddie Campbell) take Moore's writing as a suggestion of mood and tone, and appreciate Moore's specificity so they know how best to approach any given scene.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:37 PM on January 4, 2005