The storm before the calm
September 24, 2009 1:31 PM Subscribe
I need some legal advice. A lot of legal advice, actually. My mother-in-law passed away on Tuesday, leaving 3 houses, 3 vehicles, multiple insurance policies, and no will. To make matters worse, the two surviving daughters (one of which is obviously my wife) openly hate each other and her death has brought out only the worst. Help.
This is a long, long story but it needs to be told in order to understand the whole situation, I suppose. In January of this year, my father-in-law Gilbert died in a car accident in the Salt River Canyon (Arizona). Last Tuesday, my mother-in-law Johnnie died ten miles from the same spot Gil died in another car accident. She leaves behind three daughters, Trisha (16), Dorina (24), and my wife Tara (26). She owns two properties outright, one in Snowflake, AZ and one in Globe, AZ. She has another house in Phoenix but there's a mortgage for $140k on it still and we are unclear whether there is any kind of rider attached to it to pay it off in the case of accident. There are a few cars, all in Johnnie or Gil's name as well. We've also found 3 insurance policies so far, but there is probably more we just haven't found yet. Johnnie, wonderful as she was, wasn't the most organized lady around.
None of this means dick to me. I don't care if we ever receive a single penny. However, the house in Snowflake is my wife's childhood home. We live in Phoenix, 3 hours away, but we desperately want to keep the house as a place where any family who might need a place to crash could go. Here comes the problems.
Dorina, Tara's younger sister and only real blood relative (Trish is adopted) hates my wife with a burning passion and, me being her husband, she hates me as well. She's making every single step of this process a thousand times more difficult than it needs to be. The funeral isn't until tomorrow and here I am posting a fucking question on Askme about money and houses because Dorina has made is clear that she intends on moving into the Snowflake house and exiling us from ever being able to come back to visit there. The insurance policies we've found are somewhat bleak, leading us to believe that Dor will get the lion's share of any money that comes in and, again, since she hates my wife, there's little chance that we'll receive anything. I could go more into why they hate each other, but from what I understand, sisters all hate each other and this is the norm. I know that's generalizing and I'm half-way kidding, but I'm so tired, shell-shocked, and fucked up from all of this that I don't even know how to express what I'm thinking or how I feel. I was actually friends with Dorina until Tuesday, or at least I thought I was. Since Johnnie passed, the world as I know it has slipped into chaos.
My question is; what do we do? We are mostly broke - what money we did have we spent on the funeral. I can't really afford to hire an attorney, but it sounds more and more like we're going to have to. No will, no executor, no clear directions on what Johnnie would have wanted. I've heard that what will happen next is either all collateral will slip into probate. I've also heard that since Tara is oldest, everything falls to her because of some 'Next of Kin' law. I realizing that this situation is much more serious than a favorite answer on Askme could probably provide, but I also know that there's good advice to be had from this place and that's what I'm looking for. How do we make sure that all the insurance money is split equally amongst the sisters (after, of course, mortgages, secured loans, and taxes are paid)? What do we do with the houses and cars that no longer have any living person attached to them? Has anyone been in a similar situation that can give me some good advice on how to proceed? I've done everything I can to be nice and diplomatic and a friend to Dorina, but she is so filled with hate and anger that nothing I do or my wife does is good or right. Meanwhile, we're taking care of almost every aspect of this funeral on our own while Dorina is nowhere to be seen.
I'm sorry if this is rambling and longer than it should be. Hopefully you can find the meat of what I'm asking and give me sound advice from that. Thank you.
This is a long, long story but it needs to be told in order to understand the whole situation, I suppose. In January of this year, my father-in-law Gilbert died in a car accident in the Salt River Canyon (Arizona). Last Tuesday, my mother-in-law Johnnie died ten miles from the same spot Gil died in another car accident. She leaves behind three daughters, Trisha (16), Dorina (24), and my wife Tara (26). She owns two properties outright, one in Snowflake, AZ and one in Globe, AZ. She has another house in Phoenix but there's a mortgage for $140k on it still and we are unclear whether there is any kind of rider attached to it to pay it off in the case of accident. There are a few cars, all in Johnnie or Gil's name as well. We've also found 3 insurance policies so far, but there is probably more we just haven't found yet. Johnnie, wonderful as she was, wasn't the most organized lady around.
None of this means dick to me. I don't care if we ever receive a single penny. However, the house in Snowflake is my wife's childhood home. We live in Phoenix, 3 hours away, but we desperately want to keep the house as a place where any family who might need a place to crash could go. Here comes the problems.
Dorina, Tara's younger sister and only real blood relative (Trish is adopted) hates my wife with a burning passion and, me being her husband, she hates me as well. She's making every single step of this process a thousand times more difficult than it needs to be. The funeral isn't until tomorrow and here I am posting a fucking question on Askme about money and houses because Dorina has made is clear that she intends on moving into the Snowflake house and exiling us from ever being able to come back to visit there. The insurance policies we've found are somewhat bleak, leading us to believe that Dor will get the lion's share of any money that comes in and, again, since she hates my wife, there's little chance that we'll receive anything. I could go more into why they hate each other, but from what I understand, sisters all hate each other and this is the norm. I know that's generalizing and I'm half-way kidding, but I'm so tired, shell-shocked, and fucked up from all of this that I don't even know how to express what I'm thinking or how I feel. I was actually friends with Dorina until Tuesday, or at least I thought I was. Since Johnnie passed, the world as I know it has slipped into chaos.
My question is; what do we do? We are mostly broke - what money we did have we spent on the funeral. I can't really afford to hire an attorney, but it sounds more and more like we're going to have to. No will, no executor, no clear directions on what Johnnie would have wanted. I've heard that what will happen next is either all collateral will slip into probate. I've also heard that since Tara is oldest, everything falls to her because of some 'Next of Kin' law. I realizing that this situation is much more serious than a favorite answer on Askme could probably provide, but I also know that there's good advice to be had from this place and that's what I'm looking for. How do we make sure that all the insurance money is split equally amongst the sisters (after, of course, mortgages, secured loans, and taxes are paid)? What do we do with the houses and cars that no longer have any living person attached to them? Has anyone been in a similar situation that can give me some good advice on how to proceed? I've done everything I can to be nice and diplomatic and a friend to Dorina, but she is so filled with hate and anger that nothing I do or my wife does is good or right. Meanwhile, we're taking care of almost every aspect of this funeral on our own while Dorina is nowhere to be seen.
I'm sorry if this is rambling and longer than it should be. Hopefully you can find the meat of what I'm asking and give me sound advice from that. Thank you.
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- jessamyn
Don't even try to sort this out on your own. Lawyer. Lawyer lawyer lawyer.
(I'm sorry for your loss.)
posted by ook at 1:39 PM on September 24, 2009
(I'm sorry for your loss.)
posted by ook at 1:39 PM on September 24, 2009
I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult time, and my thoughts go out to you and your wife. Giving the delicate situation and the amount of sensitive information here, I might suggest 1) asking the mods to delete this question and 2) seeking help from a lawyer ASAP. Since you're in Arizona, you can try checking out AZ Law Help for information on legal aid programs in the state, which might help if you need legal advice and don't have a lot of money to spend. Good luck.
(Obvious disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.)
posted by teamparka at 1:41 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
(Obvious disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.)
posted by teamparka at 1:41 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
Appraise all assets. Divide by three. Allow each to 'bid' on tangible property against each-other. Sell un-purchased assets. Reconcile the balance due/owed by each sister. Done.
posted by mmdei at 1:42 PM on September 24, 2009
posted by mmdei at 1:42 PM on September 24, 2009
Yes. Lawyer. Property/estate lawyer - your local bar association should have a list of folks who are qualified in those fields.
And it wouldn't hurt to look into professional mediation - this could be a clergyperson, if that's how the family runs, or a secular mediator (who may also be a lawyer). Google mediator + your city and see what comes up. Good luck, and I'm sorry for your loss.
posted by rtha at 1:43 PM on September 24, 2009
And it wouldn't hurt to look into professional mediation - this could be a clergyperson, if that's how the family runs, or a secular mediator (who may also be a lawyer). Google mediator + your city and see what comes up. Good luck, and I'm sorry for your loss.
posted by rtha at 1:43 PM on September 24, 2009
Did MIL or FIL have a lawyer? How long have they owned the houses? Whoever sold them the real estate might have an idea of who the lawyer was. Is there a safety deposit box? The will might be in there, but getting to it will be a problem without a lawyer. Does anyone have Power of Attorney? Given that possession is 9/10ths and all, I'd change the locks on the houses and give the keys to your lawyer, but that's just me. We had a similar but not nearly so complicated business years ago and ended up selling everything just to shut up my nasty uncle. It was ugly, but it got rid of him. And, btw, why isn't the 24year old sister sharing the funeral expenses? Is the 16 year old still considered a minor where you live? Who is going to look after her? Is that written down anywhere? How big is the place where MIL lived? Could you call all the lawyers in town without breaking the bank on long distance? Usually the lawyer has a relationship with his/her clients and holds a copy of the will and, sometimes, the mortgage papers. I wish you luck. Do you have a sane relative on your side or close friend to help out? You might need someone who can be sort of neutral to get you through this mess.
posted by x46 at 1:44 PM on September 24, 2009
posted by x46 at 1:44 PM on September 24, 2009
Some concrete advice. Your mother-in-law's estate should have a lawyer and executor who represent the estate's interests, and who work with a probate court judge/clerk who ensures that the estate has first paid off all its debts before giving out any inheritance. In other words, where the kids disagree on something, an independent party calls the shots.
Note that the estate's lawyer is not your lawyer, so you may want someone to represent your interests as well.
posted by zippy at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2009
Note that the estate's lawyer is not your lawyer, so you may want someone to represent your interests as well.
posted by zippy at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2009
As far as insurance policies go, there may be stated beneficiaries in the policy paperwork. Other than that, since there's no will and some animosity, it really sounds like a job for lawyers; sorry. And, for what it's worth, not all sisters hate each other (not that you didn't really know that).
I do wonder, however, that since one of the sisters (doesn't matter if adopted, if she was a legal dependent of your deceased in-laws) is a minor, any final judgment might (should?) be inclined to provide for her well-being before that of the adult sisters.
Good luck.
(On preview: mmdei, if only things were so simple.)
posted by aught at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2009
I do wonder, however, that since one of the sisters (doesn't matter if adopted, if she was a legal dependent of your deceased in-laws) is a minor, any final judgment might (should?) be inclined to provide for her well-being before that of the adult sisters.
Good luck.
(On preview: mmdei, if only things were so simple.)
posted by aught at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2009
With no will the estate will indeed go into probate and be divided up according to the laws of intestate succession. An estate administrator will be appointed by the court to manage things until the assets are distributed. It appears that Arizona law is for equal distribution (1/3 each), so the sister's threats are virtually meaningless. Document them, however, as you don't want her to be appointed the administrator. Also, amro's suggestion to have the question modified/anonymized is a good one.
Somebody's going to have to have custody over the person and the estate of the minor child. She has an equal right to the estate, as adopted children are "children for all purposes", including inheritance.
Protracted fights over estates can drain assets like nobody's business; however, this should actually be relatively straightforward as long as nobody contests whether there was a will or not. Do talk to a lawyer -- at least get a free consultation with someone who knows how Arizona probate laws work.
posted by katemonster at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2009
Somebody's going to have to have custody over the person and the estate of the minor child. She has an equal right to the estate, as adopted children are "children for all purposes", including inheritance.
Protracted fights over estates can drain assets like nobody's business; however, this should actually be relatively straightforward as long as nobody contests whether there was a will or not. Do talk to a lawyer -- at least get a free consultation with someone who knows how Arizona probate laws work.
posted by katemonster at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2009
This lawyer says get a lawyer. If you know a lawyer who does not practice in the area of trust and estates ask for his or her advice on a good lawyer for trust and estates work in your area.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:47 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 1:47 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
Don't even try to sort this out on your own. Lawyer. Lawyer lawyer lawyer.
(I'm sorry for your loss.)
posted by ook at 1:39 PM on September 24 [+] [!]
THIS.
Seriously. Lawyer lawyer lawyer.
And because you're theoretically inheriting something some lawyers will take a bigger precentage for delayed payment if you can't necessarily pay before seeing the money. Well, some will. Ask around with friends. Find someone who knows a lawyer who can help you or probably knows a laywer suited better to help you.
Express to the lawyer that you don't want to fight tooth and nail, you just want it resolved fairly and quickly, rather than a long war.
And try and hire this lawyer for just you and your wife. Yes it's drawing a line in the sand. but it sounds like if this person even tries to help out everyone it will be a mess. And when it starts going down don't even try to talk outside the lawyer. Always defer.
posted by Lacking Subtlety at 1:48 PM on September 24, 2009
(I'm sorry for your loss.)
posted by ook at 1:39 PM on September 24 [+] [!]
THIS.
Seriously. Lawyer lawyer lawyer.
And because you're theoretically inheriting something some lawyers will take a bigger precentage for delayed payment if you can't necessarily pay before seeing the money. Well, some will. Ask around with friends. Find someone who knows a lawyer who can help you or probably knows a laywer suited better to help you.
Express to the lawyer that you don't want to fight tooth and nail, you just want it resolved fairly and quickly, rather than a long war.
And try and hire this lawyer for just you and your wife. Yes it's drawing a line in the sand. but it sounds like if this person even tries to help out everyone it will be a mess. And when it starts going down don't even try to talk outside the lawyer. Always defer.
posted by Lacking Subtlety at 1:48 PM on September 24, 2009
n'thing lawyer. ESTATE LAWYER. ESTATE LAWYER.
With that much property, and various other assets (investments, insurance policies, etc), there's a very realistic chance that estate taxes will come into play (either state or federal).
Before anything can be divvied up, a full appraisal of everything must be done, and the government must get its' share.
Your sister-in-law can claim she wants to do whatever she wants to do, but that doesn't mean she can. If there's no will, and the various immediate family members don't agree as to what happens, then it's going to get VERY messy.
For the sake of all of you, your sister-in-law included, you guys need to get a lawyer to just handle the initial stages of the estate. They can get paid out of the estate assets. They will also advise you as to what AZ law is with regards to dividing the estate up when no will exists.
Realize that if your other sister-in-law is legally adopted, and she's a minor, that's going to complicate things as well. And just because she's not blood doesn't mean she's not entitled to some kind of share as well.
This will be a long, drawn out process, and expect things to go pear-shaped - deaths of parents make everyone go a little nuts, and your wife & her family are going to have quite an ordeal, even if they all like eachother.
YOU NEED A LAWYER.
posted by swngnmonk at 1:51 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
With that much property, and various other assets (investments, insurance policies, etc), there's a very realistic chance that estate taxes will come into play (either state or federal).
Before anything can be divvied up, a full appraisal of everything must be done, and the government must get its' share.
Your sister-in-law can claim she wants to do whatever she wants to do, but that doesn't mean she can. If there's no will, and the various immediate family members don't agree as to what happens, then it's going to get VERY messy.
For the sake of all of you, your sister-in-law included, you guys need to get a lawyer to just handle the initial stages of the estate. They can get paid out of the estate assets. They will also advise you as to what AZ law is with regards to dividing the estate up when no will exists.
Realize that if your other sister-in-law is legally adopted, and she's a minor, that's going to complicate things as well. And just because she's not blood doesn't mean she's not entitled to some kind of share as well.
This will be a long, drawn out process, and expect things to go pear-shaped - deaths of parents make everyone go a little nuts, and your wife & her family are going to have quite an ordeal, even if they all like eachother.
YOU NEED A LAWYER.
posted by swngnmonk at 1:51 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also - certain expenses (such as funeral expenses) are reimbursable by the estate. This is why you get a lawyer. Keep all your receipts for expenses related to everything going on.
posted by swngnmonk at 1:53 PM on September 24, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by swngnmonk at 1:53 PM on September 24, 2009 [3 favorites]
Appraise all assets. Divide by three. Allow each to 'bid' on tangible property against each-other. Sell un-purchased assets. Reconcile the balance due/owed by each sister. Done.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD YOU DO THIS. You mother-in-law died intestate. There are very specific laws that must be followed. Furthermore, there is a minor child who will need to have a guardian appointed. The estate will pay for the lawyer, get one now.
posted by nestor_makhno at 1:56 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD YOU DO THIS. You mother-in-law died intestate. There are very specific laws that must be followed. Furthermore, there is a minor child who will need to have a guardian appointed. The estate will pay for the lawyer, get one now.
posted by nestor_makhno at 1:56 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
Just to reiterate -- definitely get a lawyer. But here's a website (from an Arizona estate lawyer) that outlines some of the process of probate, so you know what will be happening.
posted by katemonster at 2:04 PM on September 24, 2009
posted by katemonster at 2:04 PM on September 24, 2009
Nthing "lawyer." Also, who's looking out for the 16-year-old? Does she have a guardian, a place to stay? She needs her own lawyer and possibly a guardian ad litem if her care and custody is unresolved (or likely to become a point of contention).
posted by Cricket at 2:07 PM on September 24, 2009
posted by Cricket at 2:07 PM on September 24, 2009
You're going to have to have a lawyer, since there's no executor for the estate anyway. Do it NOW. Let the sister pick the lawyer if she's being a really big pain about the whole thing. Make sure you talk to the lawyer a lot.
posted by timoni at 2:17 PM on September 24, 2009
posted by timoni at 2:17 PM on September 24, 2009
Appraise all assets. Divide by three. Allow each to 'bid' on tangible property against each-other. Sell un-purchased assets. Reconcile the balance due/owed by each sister. Done.
This is legal advice by a non-lawyer. Please ignore this and any other legal advice given on this thread.
What you need from us is reassurance that things will be ok. If you get an attorney, they will be able to take a lot of this off your shoulders. That is what we do. Relax and find someone who can really help.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:21 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is legal advice by a non-lawyer. Please ignore this and any other legal advice given on this thread.
What you need from us is reassurance that things will be ok. If you get an attorney, they will be able to take a lot of this off your shoulders. That is what we do. Relax and find someone who can really help.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:21 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
get a lawyer
Agreed.
The Get a lawyer page on the Metafilter wiki contains a lot of good tips on how to go about doing that.
posted by av123 at 2:28 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
Agreed.
The Get a lawyer page on the Metafilter wiki contains a lot of good tips on how to go about doing that.
posted by av123 at 2:28 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
You don't consider the sixteen year old a "real" sister and are hellbent on keeping the hated sister from a house you want three hours away from your own. I'm sorry for your loss but that is not a healthy way to approach this mess. The minor sister's needs, adopted or not, matter a lot, the hated one's wants, not so much, before the law.
Stop talking to the hated sister, write down every word of every conversation you have had with her since the mother's passing, and get a lawyer now.
If blood dictated family loyalties, the "blood" sisters would band against the adopted one. If you harbor any ill will or feeling that the adopted sister isn't a "real" sister, that's a problem in your head only and you'd better start thinking in terms of three sisters instead of two. Get a lawyer for you and your wife and figure out who is looking after the likely devastated sixteen year old in the interim. Screw the house in Snowflake; a child's welfare is at stake.
posted by vincele at 2:35 PM on September 24, 2009 [7 favorites]
Stop talking to the hated sister, write down every word of every conversation you have had with her since the mother's passing, and get a lawyer now.
If blood dictated family loyalties, the "blood" sisters would band against the adopted one. If you harbor any ill will or feeling that the adopted sister isn't a "real" sister, that's a problem in your head only and you'd better start thinking in terms of three sisters instead of two. Get a lawyer for you and your wife and figure out who is looking after the likely devastated sixteen year old in the interim. Screw the house in Snowflake; a child's welfare is at stake.
posted by vincele at 2:35 PM on September 24, 2009 [7 favorites]
Legal advice needs an Arizona lawyer. The following is information in generalities regarding intestate (no will or trust) succession.
In most states, each adult daughter has an equal right to serve as executor. The middle sister cannot just shoulder your wife out of the way. And the executor has to keep all beneficiaries informed about what she is doing.
>since Tara is oldest, everything falls to her because of some 'Next of Kin' law
Not likely. In most states, everything is divided three ways among the three daughters - all are next of kin in equal measure. That includes the Snowflake house. That means that the middle sister cannot just grab it and prevent the others from using it.
>How do we make sure that all the insurance money is split equally amongst the sisters
Whoever is listed as beneficiary on a given policy gets all the money and has no legal obligation to do anything for the others. It does not go into the estate. But if the husband was named as beneficiary, and if that had not been updated, the three daughters may succeed to his interest equally, through his estate, assuming that he had no will either.
posted by megatherium at 2:36 PM on September 24, 2009
In most states, each adult daughter has an equal right to serve as executor. The middle sister cannot just shoulder your wife out of the way. And the executor has to keep all beneficiaries informed about what she is doing.
>since Tara is oldest, everything falls to her because of some 'Next of Kin' law
Not likely. In most states, everything is divided three ways among the three daughters - all are next of kin in equal measure. That includes the Snowflake house. That means that the middle sister cannot just grab it and prevent the others from using it.
>How do we make sure that all the insurance money is split equally amongst the sisters
Whoever is listed as beneficiary on a given policy gets all the money and has no legal obligation to do anything for the others. It does not go into the estate. But if the husband was named as beneficiary, and if that had not been updated, the three daughters may succeed to his interest equally, through his estate, assuming that he had no will either.
posted by megatherium at 2:36 PM on September 24, 2009
I am so sorry this is happening.
I don't know you, I'll never meet you, but I am worried for you because of the identifying information in this post!!!
Not only should you lawyer up, you should mod up!
posted by jgirl at 2:37 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
I don't know you, I'll never meet you, but I am worried for you because of the identifying information in this post!!!
Not only should you lawyer up, you should mod up!
posted by jgirl at 2:37 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
I am not a lawyer, so I'm not touching this with a 10-foot pole.
However, I strongly encourage that, while you're lawyering up and Dorina is lawyering up and the Snowflake house is lawyering up, please stop and think of Trish.
Others have said it but she is 16 years old - please make sure someone is looking out for her and is there for her during this very difficult time. The only thing more devastating than losing a (remaining) parent is losing your siblings to a legal squabble and being left alone, if only emotionally. She may be adopted, but that was still her mother and your wife is still her sister.
posted by caveat at 2:43 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
However, I strongly encourage that, while you're lawyering up and Dorina is lawyering up and the Snowflake house is lawyering up, please stop and think of Trish.
Others have said it but she is 16 years old - please make sure someone is looking out for her and is there for her during this very difficult time. The only thing more devastating than losing a (remaining) parent is losing your siblings to a legal squabble and being left alone, if only emotionally. She may be adopted, but that was still her mother and your wife is still her sister.
posted by caveat at 2:43 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
You and your wife need your own lawyer to handle your interests in this process.
I just wanted to make that super duper clear.
Also, the sixteen year old should be represented in some fashion, and separate from the other sisters.
LASTLY, PLEASE CONTACT A MOD AND GET THIS ASK REMOVED FROM THIS WEBSITE.
Entirely too much information. If I was a thief, a con artist, any other type of criminal, or just a friend of the disliked sister... I could find you in a heartbeat.
You're not thinking clearly. Ask trusted friends to help you find a trustworthy attorney.
posted by jbenben at 2:43 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
I just wanted to make that super duper clear.
Also, the sixteen year old should be represented in some fashion, and separate from the other sisters.
LASTLY, PLEASE CONTACT A MOD AND GET THIS ASK REMOVED FROM THIS WEBSITE.
Entirely too much information. If I was a thief, a con artist, any other type of criminal, or just a friend of the disliked sister... I could find you in a heartbeat.
You're not thinking clearly. Ask trusted friends to help you find a trustworthy attorney.
posted by jbenben at 2:43 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
Appraise all assets. Divide by three. Allow each to 'bid' on tangible property against each-other. Sell un-purchased assets. Reconcile the balance due/owed by each sister. Done.
Several people have pointed out that this advice is, uh, misguided (and I'm being generous). I would only add that at this point none of the three sisters have any legal right to the property. You'd soon find out that it's impossible to "sell" any significant assets (like property), and those that you did sell could land you in legal trouble.
posted by pardonyou? at 2:50 PM on September 24, 2009
Several people have pointed out that this advice is, uh, misguided (and I'm being generous). I would only add that at this point none of the three sisters have any legal right to the property. You'd soon find out that it's impossible to "sell" any significant assets (like property), and those that you did sell could land you in legal trouble.
posted by pardonyou? at 2:50 PM on September 24, 2009
Appreciate that you're going through a rough patch but you really need to get this question removed, and while that's happening you need to lawyer up. Best of luck.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:16 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:16 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
You now you need to lawyer up - don't try anything without one, I've seen messes created when family does that after someone dies, and that was with a clear will stating what needed to be done.
Nthing the think of the 16year old. She has lost her parents is a minor and needs the most help in this situation. You are not thinking clearly.
posted by dabitch at 3:21 PM on September 24, 2009
Nthing the think of the 16year old. She has lost her parents is a minor and needs the most help in this situation. You are not thinking clearly.
posted by dabitch at 3:21 PM on September 24, 2009
My mom had some estate issues and had a fantastic lawyer (Phoenix). Email me if you would like more info (email in profile).
posted by forforf at 3:22 PM on September 24, 2009
posted by forforf at 3:22 PM on September 24, 2009
The insurance policies name a beneficiary, so they should be straightforward. When someone dies with no will, each state specifies how their belongings will be divided. There must be an executor, and the estate must go through Probate court. So the estate needs a probate lawyer. The minor needs whatever representation is required/recommended in Az. Your wife may choose to have a probate lawyer of her own to look out for her assets.
The amount of money left to any child is not an indication of the parents' love.
This is not an emergency. Even if that sister moves into the house, it can still work out. The law is well-prepared to deal with property issues after a death.
I have sisters. We hardly ever hate each other.
The mods should anonymize the details on your post.
Help your wife deal with her grief 1st, then the property issues. Good luck.
posted by theora55 at 3:35 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
The amount of money left to any child is not an indication of the parents' love.
This is not an emergency. Even if that sister moves into the house, it can still work out. The law is well-prepared to deal with property issues after a death.
I have sisters. We hardly ever hate each other.
The mods should anonymize the details on your post.
Help your wife deal with her grief 1st, then the property issues. Good luck.
posted by theora55 at 3:35 PM on September 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also... I'm so sorry for this. I reckon lack of sleep from fretting has really done your head in. Get some sleep. And make your wife get some sleep too.
The 16 year old is still a sister and needs to be taken care of... nthing what everyone else has said.
I"m sure you didn't mean it.. but it's quite telling...you said "I don't care if we ever receive a single penny. " I'm sure that's true. But it wouldn't be YOU getting anything. It would be your wife. Try to remember that. Sometimes spouses get involved and make things a lot worse.
When my mum died three years ago, both our real estate agent and lawyer both told me that it was usually spouses that ended up making things worse as they had a bit of "än eye on the prize" but no history to temper it.
You don't sound like that kind of person. You sound fraught and over tired. As does your sister in law, cut her a bit of slack if you can.
We all went a bit loopy and nasty in the weeks and months when mum died too. Much like your situation.... except nobody was adopted and we were a bit older. Three years later some relationships have been somewhat salvaged... and some never will be.
Get some sleep, see a lawyer and YOU step back from the money. Support your wife and be level headed. Losing a parent can be very traumatic for adult kids as well as young kids... more so when they were a tad dysfunctional on top of that.
And if I ever hear you talking about blood or none blood sisters ever again, I"ll bloody put you over my knee and spank you. That's out of line and nothing to do with anything. Ever. Ever Ever.
Now go sleep. And eat a little too.
posted by taff at 3:55 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
The 16 year old is still a sister and needs to be taken care of... nthing what everyone else has said.
I"m sure you didn't mean it.. but it's quite telling...you said "I don't care if we ever receive a single penny. " I'm sure that's true. But it wouldn't be YOU getting anything. It would be your wife. Try to remember that. Sometimes spouses get involved and make things a lot worse.
When my mum died three years ago, both our real estate agent and lawyer both told me that it was usually spouses that ended up making things worse as they had a bit of "än eye on the prize" but no history to temper it.
You don't sound like that kind of person. You sound fraught and over tired. As does your sister in law, cut her a bit of slack if you can.
We all went a bit loopy and nasty in the weeks and months when mum died too. Much like your situation.... except nobody was adopted and we were a bit older. Three years later some relationships have been somewhat salvaged... and some never will be.
Get some sleep, see a lawyer and YOU step back from the money. Support your wife and be level headed. Losing a parent can be very traumatic for adult kids as well as young kids... more so when they were a tad dysfunctional on top of that.
And if I ever hear you talking about blood or none blood sisters ever again, I"ll bloody put you over my knee and spank you. That's out of line and nothing to do with anything. Ever. Ever Ever.
Now go sleep. And eat a little too.
posted by taff at 3:55 PM on September 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
I keep checking in here, hoping your post will be modified or removed altogether.
A few moments ago while waiting on hold for a customer service representative, I fussed around on the internet. Here is what I found out about you...
1. Your FIL's full name and obituary.
2. Your MIL's full name, employment history, obituary, time and place for her funeral.
3. You and your wife's current and past addresses. I believe the the home phone is in your wife's name, correct?
By posting so much personal data in this post, you have made your entire family vulnerable to all sorts of fraud and theft.
I'm so sorry for your loss. You'll be in my prayers.
Please contact the mods and have all distiguishing details removed from this post immediately.
posted by jbenben at 4:15 PM on September 24, 2009
A few moments ago while waiting on hold for a customer service representative, I fussed around on the internet. Here is what I found out about you...
1. Your FIL's full name and obituary.
2. Your MIL's full name, employment history, obituary, time and place for her funeral.
3. You and your wife's current and past addresses. I believe the the home phone is in your wife's name, correct?
By posting so much personal data in this post, you have made your entire family vulnerable to all sorts of fraud and theft.
I'm so sorry for your loss. You'll be in my prayers.
Please contact the mods and have all distiguishing details removed from this post immediately.
posted by jbenben at 4:15 PM on September 24, 2009
Response by poster: I'll ask the mods to remove this question - I think I understand the route to take now. For the record though, I didn't mention anything about Trish's interests because they're already covered - she's moving in with another family member, an older brother from FIL's first marriage. She should be getting whatever SS benefits or retirement benefits that MIL was getting before she passed. Either way, she's going to be well taken care of and I do consider her as a sister and a party to all of this as well - that part of the drama was taken care of immediately as she was everyone's major concern.
Thank you again Mefi. You come through once again.
posted by Bageena at 4:20 PM on September 24, 2009
Thank you again Mefi. You come through once again.
posted by Bageena at 4:20 PM on September 24, 2009
« Older Shameless music that'll grab our son and your... | How do I create an anonymous blog that I can... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Bageena at 1:33 PM on September 24, 2009