Is it still possible to be a renaissance man (or woman)?
August 16, 2009 5:51 PM Subscribe
I have always greatly admired people who have many careers and jobs in their lifetime. I think I want the same thing myself - so how do I go about it?
I might just be getting ahead of myself, as I'm only two years out of college, but as the people around me start to choose their career paths, I find myself with a very different vision of the life I want for myself.
I have been in the same scientific field for several years now, and while I love it and am doing quite well, I don't know if I can see myself sticking with it in the long haul (long haul meaning grad school and becoming a professor). So I find myself at a bit of a crossroads. My boss is encouraging me to apply to PhD programs, and it seems likely that I could get in to a great one. But that is a commitment of 5+ years, as well as a pay cut (my daily life would not change too much - right now my boss treats me like a grad student and I can take classes through the university I work at).
I don't want to stay in this field forever. I have a number of other goals and dreams, including:
~ teaching (especially using alternative educational models)
~ becoming a fiction author (I have friends in the publishing industry who say I write well enough to publish, and I know I have plenty of ideas and the determination to follow through, if only I had the time!)
~ opening up a coffee shop with friends (this one is the most unrealistic)
~ intensive historical research (I'm especially interested in writing an alternative history textbook, and doing research about the rise of investigative journalism in the context of internet journalism)
And I know that there are many other dreams I will want to follow as I grow older and experience more things.
I know I could go ahead and get the PhD and then decide to do something else, but I wonder if that would put me in the best position for changing fields. Or is it a bad idea in this economy to hope for a life of little job stability?
At the risk of bragging, I have a number of things going for me:
- raw intelligence: I've been in the 99th percentile of most standardized tests, including IQ, and am very creative.
- I pick things up quickly: for instance, two years ago I didn't know how to program at all, now I can do basic web page design and write code in several languages. I have very strong verbal and social skills as well.
- Solid middle class background. I am saving away money now, and I have family and good friends I could live with indefinitely and borrow money from in a pinch, although I would hope to never come to that.
- No desire to own a house, or a car, or have children - at least for the next 5-10 years.
My questions:
~ Is this a bad idea, especially given the economy?
~ Should I just continue on in this field as though I intend to spend the next 10-20 years in it, or is there a better way to approach it?
~ What are some practical steps I should take? Right now, the only practical step I can come up with is saving as much of my income as possible.
~ Have any of you ended up having multiple (3+) careers? Or, if you're younger, and think you might be headed down that road - how did you do it? Could you have predicted it at 24? What advice would you give?
Sorry for the length!
I might just be getting ahead of myself, as I'm only two years out of college, but as the people around me start to choose their career paths, I find myself with a very different vision of the life I want for myself.
I have been in the same scientific field for several years now, and while I love it and am doing quite well, I don't know if I can see myself sticking with it in the long haul (long haul meaning grad school and becoming a professor). So I find myself at a bit of a crossroads. My boss is encouraging me to apply to PhD programs, and it seems likely that I could get in to a great one. But that is a commitment of 5+ years, as well as a pay cut (my daily life would not change too much - right now my boss treats me like a grad student and I can take classes through the university I work at).
I don't want to stay in this field forever. I have a number of other goals and dreams, including:
~ teaching (especially using alternative educational models)
~ becoming a fiction author (I have friends in the publishing industry who say I write well enough to publish, and I know I have plenty of ideas and the determination to follow through, if only I had the time!)
~ opening up a coffee shop with friends (this one is the most unrealistic)
~ intensive historical research (I'm especially interested in writing an alternative history textbook, and doing research about the rise of investigative journalism in the context of internet journalism)
And I know that there are many other dreams I will want to follow as I grow older and experience more things.
I know I could go ahead and get the PhD and then decide to do something else, but I wonder if that would put me in the best position for changing fields. Or is it a bad idea in this economy to hope for a life of little job stability?
At the risk of bragging, I have a number of things going for me:
- raw intelligence: I've been in the 99th percentile of most standardized tests, including IQ, and am very creative.
- I pick things up quickly: for instance, two years ago I didn't know how to program at all, now I can do basic web page design and write code in several languages. I have very strong verbal and social skills as well.
- Solid middle class background. I am saving away money now, and I have family and good friends I could live with indefinitely and borrow money from in a pinch, although I would hope to never come to that.
- No desire to own a house, or a car, or have children - at least for the next 5-10 years.
My questions:
~ Is this a bad idea, especially given the economy?
~ Should I just continue on in this field as though I intend to spend the next 10-20 years in it, or is there a better way to approach it?
~ What are some practical steps I should take? Right now, the only practical step I can come up with is saving as much of my income as possible.
~ Have any of you ended up having multiple (3+) careers? Or, if you're younger, and think you might be headed down that road - how did you do it? Could you have predicted it at 24? What advice would you give?
Sorry for the length!
Serial careers are getting to be more the norm than the exception. There are still some barriers in terms of being hired for a field significantly different from your training/experience, but since the alternatives that intrigue you are more of the entrepreneurial variety I don't see that as much of a problem for you.
Beyond that, there's really no way anyone can give you specific advice about whether you should pursue your PhD or not. If your question is simply "will having a PhD stand in my way of moving into different fields?" the answer is "no, of course not." And it might even help: for example, some of the more interesting fiction books I read are suffused with the author's "other" field of expertise.
It's good to have in mind various "Plan Bs" that you can turn to if you are thwarted in your current career or it ceases to be interesting. But to devote less than your full attention to your current career because there are other things you think you might like to do....well, that seems to indicate that your current field isn't really all that captivating for you. If that's the case, then it would probably be torturous to devote the time and attention necessary to pursue a PhD in the field. Getting a PhD requires intense time and attention; doing that in a field you don't love could make for some v-e-r-y l-o-n-g y-e-a-r-s.
posted by DrGail at 6:18 PM on August 16, 2009
Beyond that, there's really no way anyone can give you specific advice about whether you should pursue your PhD or not. If your question is simply "will having a PhD stand in my way of moving into different fields?" the answer is "no, of course not." And it might even help: for example, some of the more interesting fiction books I read are suffused with the author's "other" field of expertise.
It's good to have in mind various "Plan Bs" that you can turn to if you are thwarted in your current career or it ceases to be interesting. But to devote less than your full attention to your current career because there are other things you think you might like to do....well, that seems to indicate that your current field isn't really all that captivating for you. If that's the case, then it would probably be torturous to devote the time and attention necessary to pursue a PhD in the field. Getting a PhD requires intense time and attention; doing that in a field you don't love could make for some v-e-r-y l-o-n-g y-e-a-r-s.
posted by DrGail at 6:18 PM on August 16, 2009
You might find reading Refuse to Choose and The Renaissance Soul helpful. I did.
Links are to Amazon.
posted by not that girl at 6:32 PM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
Links are to Amazon.
posted by not that girl at 6:32 PM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
Hi. This is me. Many careers, many jobs, incredible work and life experiences. I could have made a life long single career out of many of my jobs - nurse, fishing boat cook (becoming boat owner), TV director, small business owner, environmental activist - just to name a very few. I'm nearing my fifties now and am juggling a number of income streams. I will probably have two or three more (freelance) careers before retiring to write the novels that bumble around in my head.
I grew up in uncertain economic times when unemployment and interest rates were high. Rather than make me yearn for economic security, those uncertain times let me decide that life experience was more important than career. Heck, I didn't even go to university till I was in my mid-thirties and that was just to see what uni had to teach me (a lot as it turned out - exposure to various learning systems and intellectual modes of thought).
I would say that the following five points have helped me live the life I wanted.
Confidence
- that I could always earn income when I needed it. I am a quick but humble learner with a big smile and warm personality. Employers of customer service jobs love me.
- that my instincts and intuition where there to guide me in the right direction for my deeply held wish to have a life rich in experience.
- that I could always live within my means and could control my material wants to suit my budget.
Curiosity
- many of my jobs/experiences have come about through reading for fun the classifieds in newspapers or asking others "how did you get into that?"
Independence
- I listen to and evaluate others' arguments for a more stable life, but then make decisions based on the fact that I am the only one who can live my life.
Trust
- in myself, in my goals, in the future.
- that there are millions of opportunities to live the life we want in the world, it's a matter of keeping ones eyes open to them.
Imagination
- I keep imagining the life I want, and thus I seem to achieve it.
I have been in the same scientific field for several years now, and while I love it and am doing quite well, I don't know if I can see myself sticking with it in the long haul (long haul meaning grad school and becoming a professor).
Why does 'long haul' automatically mean PhD? There are a thousand things you could do with a science background that do not lead to a PhD. Your boss is inside the 'career' box and is providing only a limited viewpoint.
You are young enough to go do something completely off-the-wall like get a work visa to another country, join a non-profit doing good works, become a woofer. And each one of these could lead you in directions you can't even imagine now. Many fascinating life/work experiences come about through being out there in the world, in the right place at the right time.
posted by Kerasia at 6:43 PM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
I grew up in uncertain economic times when unemployment and interest rates were high. Rather than make me yearn for economic security, those uncertain times let me decide that life experience was more important than career. Heck, I didn't even go to university till I was in my mid-thirties and that was just to see what uni had to teach me (a lot as it turned out - exposure to various learning systems and intellectual modes of thought).
I would say that the following five points have helped me live the life I wanted.
Confidence
- that I could always earn income when I needed it. I am a quick but humble learner with a big smile and warm personality. Employers of customer service jobs love me.
- that my instincts and intuition where there to guide me in the right direction for my deeply held wish to have a life rich in experience.
- that I could always live within my means and could control my material wants to suit my budget.
Curiosity
- many of my jobs/experiences have come about through reading for fun the classifieds in newspapers or asking others "how did you get into that?"
Independence
- I listen to and evaluate others' arguments for a more stable life, but then make decisions based on the fact that I am the only one who can live my life.
Trust
- in myself, in my goals, in the future.
- that there are millions of opportunities to live the life we want in the world, it's a matter of keeping ones eyes open to them.
Imagination
- I keep imagining the life I want, and thus I seem to achieve it.
I have been in the same scientific field for several years now, and while I love it and am doing quite well, I don't know if I can see myself sticking with it in the long haul (long haul meaning grad school and becoming a professor).
Why does 'long haul' automatically mean PhD? There are a thousand things you could do with a science background that do not lead to a PhD. Your boss is inside the 'career' box and is providing only a limited viewpoint.
You are young enough to go do something completely off-the-wall like get a work visa to another country, join a non-profit doing good works, become a woofer. And each one of these could lead you in directions you can't even imagine now. Many fascinating life/work experiences come about through being out there in the world, in the right place at the right time.
posted by Kerasia at 6:43 PM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
I'll toss in the idea of grad or postdoc in another country.
I did a grad prog in Sweden and randomly an interesting thing is that in Uppsala and Lund, students run special bars/restaurants/coffee shops and I got involved in this. It gave me an experience I believe is really only open to those in hospitality school in the US of managing such an enterprise without risking loan defaults or other major consequences. You pay not tuition in Sweden either.
I guess the main problem is you don't seem to want a pay cut and going this route would definitely mean a huge pay cut. Also Americorps, a great way to relocate and get a good experience, but that's a huge huge huge pay cut....teach for america pays much better though.
My own strategy has always been to be good at one field and branch out through it. I went to agriculture school and I've been involved in forestry, urban gardening, organic farming, non-profit administrative work, web development for a sustainable agriculture website, catering, and grocery store supplying. I did some of this while in school and since then have kept branching out. I think my major advantage is that I own almost nothing and know how to live in poverty well, so I can accept jobs that pay very little, but are awesome! I guess I'm also pretty good at networking too, both online and off I make sure to get to know people who I hope will lead me to my next job. I try to go to lots of events in my field such as conferences and trade shows. I'm thinking my next stop will be international development work or the beer industry.
I'm not as smart as you (95th percentile here), so imagine what you could do!
posted by melissam at 6:59 PM on August 16, 2009
I did a grad prog in Sweden and randomly an interesting thing is that in Uppsala and Lund, students run special bars/restaurants/coffee shops and I got involved in this. It gave me an experience I believe is really only open to those in hospitality school in the US of managing such an enterprise without risking loan defaults or other major consequences. You pay not tuition in Sweden either.
I guess the main problem is you don't seem to want a pay cut and going this route would definitely mean a huge pay cut. Also Americorps, a great way to relocate and get a good experience, but that's a huge huge huge pay cut....teach for america pays much better though.
My own strategy has always been to be good at one field and branch out through it. I went to agriculture school and I've been involved in forestry, urban gardening, organic farming, non-profit administrative work, web development for a sustainable agriculture website, catering, and grocery store supplying. I did some of this while in school and since then have kept branching out. I think my major advantage is that I own almost nothing and know how to live in poverty well, so I can accept jobs that pay very little, but are awesome! I guess I'm also pretty good at networking too, both online and off I make sure to get to know people who I hope will lead me to my next job. I try to go to lots of events in my field such as conferences and trade shows. I'm thinking my next stop will be international development work or the beer industry.
I'm not as smart as you (95th percentile here), so imagine what you could do!
posted by melissam at 6:59 PM on August 16, 2009
Here's something you might want to think about. Do you envision yourself in any highly demanding careers that require a long apprenticeship before you get to a level of high competence? If so, how does that reconcile with your goal of multiple careers? You might be ready to move on to the next career right when you are getting good (and thus, when you are finally seeing the biggest rewards for your competence). There are certain jobs that generally are not one of a person's multiple careers (i.e., I can't recall an example of a highly accomplished surgeon who had also had other significant careers). So the deliberate choice, this early in your life, to pursue multiple careers could necessarily mean planning for several jobs in which you do not develop a very high level of competence (the kind of competence that comes with 25 or 30 years of practice).
When you are thirty-five or forty, and embarking on your second career, you may find yourself uncomfortable to be competing with people just out of college for the entry-level positions. You may find yourself viewed warily by people who wonder if you couldn't "make it" in your previous career.
I think multiple careers can be done, with great success, given the right kinds of jobs and the right kind of personality. I think it would work best if you are confident and sure of what you want to do, and have thought carefully about how you are going to deal with the particular problems that come along with multiple careers as opposed to spending your whole working life developing high competence in one field.
posted by jayder at 7:09 PM on August 16, 2009
When you are thirty-five or forty, and embarking on your second career, you may find yourself uncomfortable to be competing with people just out of college for the entry-level positions. You may find yourself viewed warily by people who wonder if you couldn't "make it" in your previous career.
I think multiple careers can be done, with great success, given the right kinds of jobs and the right kind of personality. I think it would work best if you are confident and sure of what you want to do, and have thought carefully about how you are going to deal with the particular problems that come along with multiple careers as opposed to spending your whole working life developing high competence in one field.
posted by jayder at 7:09 PM on August 16, 2009
The main difficulty with having multiple careers is if they require extensive training. It's hard starting over and going back to school when you're already successful at something else. The ones you list are not the kind where that will be a problem, so you're good to go!
posted by Obscure Reference at 7:09 PM on August 16, 2009
posted by Obscure Reference at 7:09 PM on August 16, 2009
When you think big it's easy to knee-jerk and try to grow out a not-very well-thought idea only to see it blow up in your face. It is worse when you have already brought in enthusiastic allies who are warm to your sense of creation.
I won't make any particular recommendation other than to say that it's good to have one constant project propeling you forward as you take stock of what the rest of the world has to offer. Anyone can rent a storefront, lease a big espresso machine, and train a couple of baristas. Finish your doctorate. My experience has always been that dreams find me. Maybe it will be the same for you.
posted by parmanparman at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2009
I won't make any particular recommendation other than to say that it's good to have one constant project propeling you forward as you take stock of what the rest of the world has to offer. Anyone can rent a storefront, lease a big espresso machine, and train a couple of baristas. Finish your doctorate. My experience has always been that dreams find me. Maybe it will be the same for you.
posted by parmanparman at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2009
1. I know the fiction part of this is doable, because I did it -- get admitted to a 1- or at most 2-year MFA program after college which will fund you, and write your novel. Don't go to a program that won't fund you -- for someone who wants to be a novelist and nothing else will do, I guess it might make sense, but not for you.
2. The scientific career is a tougher one, just because, no matter how advanced you are as an undergrad, you have no realistic sense of what it would be like to be a researcher in that field. I say start the Ph.D. program, after you do your MFA. Your skills and qualities as you describe them (quick study, willing to live on a pittance, no geographic ties) basically make you a perfect graduate student! After a couple of years, you might feel that life's not for you, in which case you walk off with a master's degree and go off to your next career armed with the substantial intellectual capital 2 years of graduate study in the sciences gives you.
Or, you do a few years of Ph.D. and realize that, as much as you like the idea of being a renaissance person in the abstract, the science you're doing is the most fun thing in the world and there's nothing you'd rather do than devote your life to it. It happened to me!
posted by escabeche at 8:15 PM on August 16, 2009
2. The scientific career is a tougher one, just because, no matter how advanced you are as an undergrad, you have no realistic sense of what it would be like to be a researcher in that field. I say start the Ph.D. program, after you do your MFA. Your skills and qualities as you describe them (quick study, willing to live on a pittance, no geographic ties) basically make you a perfect graduate student! After a couple of years, you might feel that life's not for you, in which case you walk off with a master's degree and go off to your next career armed with the substantial intellectual capital 2 years of graduate study in the sciences gives you.
Or, you do a few years of Ph.D. and realize that, as much as you like the idea of being a renaissance person in the abstract, the science you're doing is the most fun thing in the world and there's nothing you'd rather do than devote your life to it. It happened to me!
posted by escabeche at 8:15 PM on August 16, 2009
One secret to gaining a lot of work experience in a short time, is to have more than one full time job, at once. I've had periods of several years, where I had 2 full time jobs, and neither knew about the other one. You work, generally, 7 days a week for months at a time, but if you arrange things correctly, travelwise and with your working hours, your actual daily double shift day "away from home" time is only around 18 hours. Some days, you will only work at one job, or the other, and it will seem like you had a day off.
Pros:
I don't know that you could call me a "Renaissance man," but I believe a life of varied experiences in many locales and situations keeps your outlook fresh. If you want to write fiction, it's a great way to stock your internal cupboard of place and sense memory, too.
However, if you want to pursue the Ph.D. program, that kind of active involvement in the world is pretty much not going to happen. The mental stress and time committments of most Ph.D. programs simply won't allow it, to say nothing of departmental politics, regardless of your energy or stamina. However, outside academia, you can go as hard as you like, as long as you like, and mostly, people are just happy to pay you for what you get done.
posted by paulsc at 10:13 PM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Pros:
- You build a lot of experience, quickly, particularly if the jobs are in aligned fields. In one multi-job multi-year life arc, I worked days as a control electrician servicing electrically and electronically controlled steel sheet rolling and welding equipment, in a consumer goods factory. At night, I was a licensed broadcast engineer, running TV, FM, and AM transmitters, and doing studio camera maintenance and control room duty. Both jobs called for working with high voltage, high power vacuum tube technology, and I got to know a good deal about giant vacuum tubes that control hundreds of amperes of electrical current, at both low and radio frequencies.
- Night jobs often pay better than their equivalent day jobs, and turnover is often such a problem, that if you are a stable night employee, you get a lot of leeway. I read and did class work for a business degree, while working at one of the TV stations, in the life arc above. Yep, I was a part time college student (only 3 to 6 semester hours at a time), too!
- The money rolls in like a January blizzard in Wyoming, and you have little or no time to spend it.
- Not feasible to do if you need more than 5 or 6 hours of sleep, routinely.
- Overtime is hard to do, if either job suddenly requires it, without burning personal days or vacation time at the other job.
- You have little time for social life.
- You'll build so much work experience in the time you are doing this, that you'll have trouble using a chronological form of a resume. You'll need to adopt new strategies for interviewing at subsequent jobs, if you want to avoid looking like you're massively inflating your experience.
I don't know that you could call me a "Renaissance man," but I believe a life of varied experiences in many locales and situations keeps your outlook fresh. If you want to write fiction, it's a great way to stock your internal cupboard of place and sense memory, too.
However, if you want to pursue the Ph.D. program, that kind of active involvement in the world is pretty much not going to happen. The mental stress and time committments of most Ph.D. programs simply won't allow it, to say nothing of departmental politics, regardless of your energy or stamina. However, outside academia, you can go as hard as you like, as long as you like, and mostly, people are just happy to pay you for what you get done.
posted by paulsc at 10:13 PM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
another multi careeer person here. lots of good advice in this thread. one thing that i noted is that your 'alternate' careers listed above are actually pretty related. if you want to have true multiple careers, you need to look for the opportunities of something you have not yet considered--as opposed to saying 'great, i've been a scientist, now i'll be a fiction writer.' it might not seem to be related at the moment, but historians, for example, are social scientists, and use many of the scientific methods you may currently use, albeit in a different form.
you need to go considerably further afield. try craigslist.
posted by lester at 7:24 AM on August 17, 2009
you need to go considerably further afield. try craigslist.
posted by lester at 7:24 AM on August 17, 2009
Jamming on paulsc's comment that "One secret to gaining a lot of work experience in a short time, is to have more than one full time job, at once", I forgot to mention in my previous post, that having a wide variety of work experience in many fields, especially semi-skilled, (eg: waiter, hospital laundry person, fruit picker, labourer, etc) is another way to create a wide variety of life opportunities. Experienced semi-skilled workers can mostly always find income so they can pursue their other goals where speciality trained folk can't.
My advice to any young lads and lassies reading this: start your working life young - babysitting, mowing lawns, delivering papers, etc - to build your 'working' muscles. Oh, and a renaissance person probably does not view work as an external source for validation - ie: social status etc - but as a means to an end, that end being to have a rich, varied, informed, and experiential life. Thus any work that keeps you on that trajectory is good, worthwhile work.
posted by Kerasia at 3:31 AM on August 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
My advice to any young lads and lassies reading this: start your working life young - babysitting, mowing lawns, delivering papers, etc - to build your 'working' muscles. Oh, and a renaissance person probably does not view work as an external source for validation - ie: social status etc - but as a means to an end, that end being to have a rich, varied, informed, and experiential life. Thus any work that keeps you on that trajectory is good, worthwhile work.
posted by Kerasia at 3:31 AM on August 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
« Older Is the H1N1 vaccine inherently more dangerous? | boyfriend is hiding medication- should I worry? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
I would personally say, don't worry about the economy. That's just me. If you have money saved up, do what you think is best, not what the times say is best.
I too am actually trying to think of ways not to get myself stuck in one career my whole life...everyone tells me it's easy; just let things happen as they will.
But I came up with a plan that sounds so simple; but it took me forever to come up with. Why not become a teacher? I know, what a revolutionary question. But after I read that college professors have to "do their own research" to "get tenure", the world opened up to me. Not only are you allowed to pursue your own interests (which could lead to a second career, and if not, a career doesn't define you. What you're doing defines you.)....but you are encouraged to pursue things outside mere teaching.
If you can do web design, that sounds like a major plus to me, as you could do that and be mobile while you were going to school and/or training for a second career/interest.
Why would you need a PhD? I don't know anything about the science field. I wouldn't do it, unless I was absolutely sure that's what I would want to be doing forever & ever.
Just keep planning and pursuing! And don't give up!
I absolutely know how you feel...I never believed the "you have to pick one thing and stick to it forever" spiel.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 6:18 PM on August 16, 2009