Why the hipster hate?
August 13, 2009 11:07 PM Subscribe
Why do so many MeFites use the word hipster with such disdain?
I don't really want to start a debate about lifestyle benefits, but I'm just curious what has built up this seething undercurrent of unpleasantness anytime something comes up in a post that could be somewhat related to something "hipster" - which in itself is being used as a really broad catch-all for, I dunno, models in Urban Outfitters catalogs? It seems kinda high-school in a way that doesn't really tend to come up in the context of other social groups.
I don't really want to start a debate about lifestyle benefits, but I'm just curious what has built up this seething undercurrent of unpleasantness anytime something comes up in a post that could be somewhat related to something "hipster" - which in itself is being used as a really broad catch-all for, I dunno, models in Urban Outfitters catalogs? It seems kinda high-school in a way that doesn't really tend to come up in the context of other social groups.
This post was deleted for the following reason: This doesn't really belong on Ask Metafilter. -- vacapinta
Response by poster: I can see that, but I feel like the culture is so extensive it makes no sense. What are they, posing at being a real hipster?
posted by setanor at 11:11 PM on August 13, 2009
posted by setanor at 11:11 PM on August 13, 2009
It's not just a MeFi thing. What you're seeing is the perennial culture-war between the mainstream, the alternative, and the mainstreaming of the alternative. Hipsters embody everything about that "third" group, who are accused of adopting all the trappings of the alternative for vanity's sake only. And I see the term "hipster" used everywhere, not just on MeFi.
posted by randomstriker at 11:13 PM on August 13, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by randomstriker at 11:13 PM on August 13, 2009 [6 favorites]
The word itself is cringeworthy. I still can't believe anyone can actually refer to themselves as a hipster without even a trace of embarrassment or irony.
posted by iconomy at 11:17 PM on August 13, 2009
posted by iconomy at 11:17 PM on August 13, 2009
Maybe it's some envy for someone who is rocking a style that the hater secretly wishes he could pull off?
Also, it's a pretty race neutral term, so it's one that's easier to hate on without much push back. There's not exactly a hipster lobby that's going to stand up for itself if you slight em.
posted by No New Diamonds Please at 11:18 PM on August 13, 2009
Also, it's a pretty race neutral term, so it's one that's easier to hate on without much push back. There's not exactly a hipster lobby that's going to stand up for itself if you slight em.
posted by No New Diamonds Please at 11:18 PM on August 13, 2009
I still can't believe anyone can actually refer to themselves as a hipster without even a trace of embarrassment or irony.
Do you have any evidence that anyone does? I, for one, have never heard nor seen anyone do this. It's more of an epithet than something people call themselves, AFAICT.
posted by jeb at 11:21 PM on August 13, 2009
Do you have any evidence that anyone does? I, for one, have never heard nor seen anyone do this. It's more of an epithet than something people call themselves, AFAICT.
posted by jeb at 11:21 PM on August 13, 2009
What are they, posing at being a real hipster?
"Poseur" means "a person who is pretentious, somebody who behaves or dresses to impress others". I think the disdain is about the pretension that by wearing the right clothes and adopting the right mannerisms they somehow become "hip", and others will admire them for it.
Americans (who are the majority of MeFites) have always been contemptuous of the pretentious.
(Me, I've never been hip and have always known it and have never tried to pretend otherwise.)
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:28 PM on August 13, 2009
"Poseur" means "a person who is pretentious, somebody who behaves or dresses to impress others". I think the disdain is about the pretension that by wearing the right clothes and adopting the right mannerisms they somehow become "hip", and others will admire them for it.
Americans (who are the majority of MeFites) have always been contemptuous of the pretentious.
(Me, I've never been hip and have always known it and have never tried to pretend otherwise.)
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:28 PM on August 13, 2009
at some point you will start to wonder: what was it that I was protecting so dearly?
Why is my life so much more important than yours or theirs?
You will ask yourself.
and when you find the answer, you will go
(to yourself): Oh, Yeah.
I used to be sooooooooo dumb.
posted by at the crossroads at 11:29 PM on August 13, 2009
Why is my life so much more important than yours or theirs?
You will ask yourself.
and when you find the answer, you will go
(to yourself): Oh, Yeah.
I used to be sooooooooo dumb.
posted by at the crossroads at 11:29 PM on August 13, 2009
It usually means a young person that's different than them. Very few people agree on what a hipster acually is.
posted by apetpsychic at 11:41 PM on August 13, 2009
posted by apetpsychic at 11:41 PM on August 13, 2009
To answer this question means going back to the roots of hipsterness. It's called Brooklyn. More specifically Williamsburg in Brooklyn.
The young, non washed, skinny jean wearing masses moved with a Pabst Blue ribbon in each hand and daddy's check in their pocket to Williamsburg. It would have been cool and interesting for a while, but like many other groups that feel special, one day you wake up and realise everyone looks and acts the same.
But the real hatred for hipster is the vapidness and irony. Many have noted that hipsters are truly the first generation without a culture of their own, everything has been done already, so they recycle from others. The recycling is annoying, as the hipster claims ownership and coolness for something they never were or can be. The irony relates to cash. Mom and dad usually pay for the whole thing.
The icons of the hipster are so not endearing. The Pretentiousness. Pabst Blue Ribbon, Single Speed Bikes, the skinny jeans, the bands, etc..
And then the fucking Americans had to export that culture to my country! The fuckers are everywhere, even right here in Oslo, Norway. Bastards.
posted by Funmonkey1 at 11:52 PM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
The young, non washed, skinny jean wearing masses moved with a Pabst Blue ribbon in each hand and daddy's check in their pocket to Williamsburg. It would have been cool and interesting for a while, but like many other groups that feel special, one day you wake up and realise everyone looks and acts the same.
But the real hatred for hipster is the vapidness and irony. Many have noted that hipsters are truly the first generation without a culture of their own, everything has been done already, so they recycle from others. The recycling is annoying, as the hipster claims ownership and coolness for something they never were or can be. The irony relates to cash. Mom and dad usually pay for the whole thing.
The icons of the hipster are so not endearing. The Pretentiousness. Pabst Blue Ribbon, Single Speed Bikes, the skinny jeans, the bands, etc..
And then the fucking Americans had to export that culture to my country! The fuckers are everywhere, even right here in Oslo, Norway. Bastards.
posted by Funmonkey1 at 11:52 PM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: This pretty much covers it.
I'm sorry, but how is that different than a terrified story in the Sun about sexting ruining the world or the kids with their loud music will spell the end of us all, etc...?
I think the disdain is about the pretension that by wearing the right clothes and adopting the right mannerisms they somehow become "hip", and others will admire them for it.
It seems, though, that people just assume pretension when they see a particular style of clothing or manner that they associate with "hipster" to the point where it is impossible for anyone to enjoy such things legitimately without being cast aside as being fraudulent without so much as opening your mouth.
Cut your hair, or we won't let you graduate!
posted by setanor at 11:54 PM on August 13, 2009
I'm sorry, but how is that different than a terrified story in the Sun about sexting ruining the world or the kids with their loud music will spell the end of us all, etc...?
I think the disdain is about the pretension that by wearing the right clothes and adopting the right mannerisms they somehow become "hip", and others will admire them for it.
It seems, though, that people just assume pretension when they see a particular style of clothing or manner that they associate with "hipster" to the point where it is impossible for anyone to enjoy such things legitimately without being cast aside as being fraudulent without so much as opening your mouth.
Cut your hair, or we won't let you graduate!
posted by setanor at 11:54 PM on August 13, 2009
Who cares?
/not snark -- it's just you have your view where you probably aren't hating, prejudice, insert other buzzword here against "hipsters" or people that look like they could be hipsters --whatever that might mean.
Then there are the other people who think that hipsters are these lost souls wandering the earth like ghouls.
Then there are the people like me who don't give a rats ass. I mean I would seriously contemplate what angle I should apple butter an English muffin at then to ever think about any of this lard again.
posted by zephyr_words at 12:13 AM on August 14, 2009
/not snark -- it's just you have your view where you probably aren't hating, prejudice, insert other buzzword here against "hipsters" or people that look like they could be hipsters --whatever that might mean.
Then there are the other people who think that hipsters are these lost souls wandering the earth like ghouls.
Then there are the people like me who don't give a rats ass. I mean I would seriously contemplate what angle I should apple butter an English muffin at then to ever think about any of this lard again.
posted by zephyr_words at 12:13 AM on August 14, 2009
Response by poster: Yeah...thats not what the green is about. Take it to the grey.
Eh, not really. It just seemed like nobody was really trying to answer the question. Particularly something like Funmonkey1's response, I really do want to know where that sort of thing comes from.
Probably not worth a post on the grey, though, but thanks anyway.
posted by setanor at 12:17 AM on August 14, 2009
Eh, not really. It just seemed like nobody was really trying to answer the question. Particularly something like Funmonkey1's response, I really do want to know where that sort of thing comes from.
Probably not worth a post on the grey, though, but thanks anyway.
posted by setanor at 12:17 AM on August 14, 2009
Hipster hate has no discernible purpose or meaning. Comments like Funmonkey1's (as well as the Adbusters article referenced by phrontist) actually mean nothing--they are simply idle regurgitations of conventional wisdom recited mindlessly by tedious and thoughtless people who have nothing more interesting to say.
The best way to look at them is as waste products of other processes going on in the poster's head: out-group resentment, anxiety over growing old, reflexive rejection of threatening cultural trends, pathological desire for authenticity, ageism combined with a severe lack of perspective, homophobia, machismo, self-loathing, jealousy, inflated sense of self-righteousness, provincialism, anti-intellectualism, cultural conservatism, cultural elitism, cultural pseudo-populism, fixation on class issues to the exclusion of any other consideration, simple arrogance, nostalgia for moral and cultural certainties, desire for peer bonding, desire for acceptance, desire to be perceived as both sophisticated and down-to-earth, fear of the new, boredom, undifferentiated anger, projection, lack of desire or ability to view others as integral human beings, simple imitation, displacement of other fears and anxieties onto a readily-scapegoated target, need for a persecuted Other, need for a negative referent for identity-construction, general bitterness and cynicism, sour grapes, gnawing sense of sexual inadequacy, rigid notions of gender roles, "reverse" racism, and so on.
posted by nasreddin at 12:20 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
The best way to look at them is as waste products of other processes going on in the poster's head: out-group resentment, anxiety over growing old, reflexive rejection of threatening cultural trends, pathological desire for authenticity, ageism combined with a severe lack of perspective, homophobia, machismo, self-loathing, jealousy, inflated sense of self-righteousness, provincialism, anti-intellectualism, cultural conservatism, cultural elitism, cultural pseudo-populism, fixation on class issues to the exclusion of any other consideration, simple arrogance, nostalgia for moral and cultural certainties, desire for peer bonding, desire for acceptance, desire to be perceived as both sophisticated and down-to-earth, fear of the new, boredom, undifferentiated anger, projection, lack of desire or ability to view others as integral human beings, simple imitation, displacement of other fears and anxieties onto a readily-scapegoated target, need for a persecuted Other, need for a negative referent for identity-construction, general bitterness and cynicism, sour grapes, gnawing sense of sexual inadequacy, rigid notions of gender roles, "reverse" racism, and so on.
posted by nasreddin at 12:20 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Good points nasreddin, but for me it's mostly all the shitty bands.
posted by yesno at 12:25 AM on August 14, 2009
posted by yesno at 12:25 AM on August 14, 2009
It's funny when I hear people say that "hipsters have no culture" since the majority of the people I know who could be described as hipsters are some sort of working artist who spend all day creating things.
posted by bradbane at 12:26 AM on August 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by bradbane at 12:26 AM on August 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
Also, Momus has a pretty good reaction to the above-linked article.
posted by yesno at 12:27 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by yesno at 12:27 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Do you have any evidence that anyone does? I, for one, have never heard nor seen anyone do this. It's more of an epithet than something people call themselves, AFAICT.
posted by jeb at 11:21 PM on August 13
Probably an outlier, but I knew a guy a while ago who referred to himself as a "hipster doofus". He was in his mid/late 30's, so a bit long in the tooth for the stereotype of the hipster subculture, but stuck to some of the mainstays of the hipster: the bike, the eternally rolled-up pant leg, the ever-present hat, drinking microbrews, talking endlessly about Modest Mouse and Chin Up Chin Up, etc. On the one hand, that shouldn't matter ... if it makes him happy, who cares, right? Except that he would use the phrase self-deprecatingly, as though he were fully aware that he was trying to glom into something that he was not really right for. With the right tone, it might not have been a big thing, but his apparent effort at pointing out that he was, in fact, a "hipster doofus" seemed to indicate that he was trying to deflect criticism or sarcasm by getting there first. Annoying, but memorable--I can't think of him any other way now.
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 12:36 AM on August 14, 2009
posted by jeb at 11:21 PM on August 13
Probably an outlier, but I knew a guy a while ago who referred to himself as a "hipster doofus". He was in his mid/late 30's, so a bit long in the tooth for the stereotype of the hipster subculture, but stuck to some of the mainstays of the hipster: the bike, the eternally rolled-up pant leg, the ever-present hat, drinking microbrews, talking endlessly about Modest Mouse and Chin Up Chin Up, etc. On the one hand, that shouldn't matter ... if it makes him happy, who cares, right? Except that he would use the phrase self-deprecatingly, as though he were fully aware that he was trying to glom into something that he was not really right for. With the right tone, it might not have been a big thing, but his apparent effort at pointing out that he was, in fact, a "hipster doofus" seemed to indicate that he was trying to deflect criticism or sarcasm by getting there first. Annoying, but memorable--I can't think of him any other way now.
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 12:36 AM on August 14, 2009
Good points nasreddin, but for me it's mostly all the shitty bands.
Shitty bands are neither exclusive to nor disproportionately predominant in hipster culture. See: Sturgeon's Law. Sounds like an excuse for indulging one of the aforementioned dysfunctions.
posted by nasreddin at 12:38 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Shitty bands are neither exclusive to nor disproportionately predominant in hipster culture. See: Sturgeon's Law. Sounds like an excuse for indulging one of the aforementioned dysfunctions.
posted by nasreddin at 12:38 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't personally hate anyone, but I have always thought that 'the Stranger' in Portland was a marketed for hipsters and I always found the writing to be based a little bit on intentional insulting people. That is the attitude I always assumed was at the bottom of the hipster hate I see around.
But I could be wrong.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 12:52 AM on August 14, 2009
But I could be wrong.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 12:52 AM on August 14, 2009
Why do so many MeFites use the word hipster with such disdain?
because they're fucking1 clowns. Next question.
1 Adj not verb TYVM
posted by @troy at 12:59 AM on August 14, 2009
because they're fucking1 clowns. Next question.
1 Adj not verb TYVM
posted by @troy at 12:59 AM on August 14, 2009
Best answer: Seconding bradbane. Many of my friends who do live in Brooklyn and can't afford to live in Williamsburg anymore are working artists, dancers, photographers, etc. etc. etc. They dance in their live-work studios or make music while working at sound engineering gigs in the meanwhile or make hats while waitressing, and so on and so forth. I wouldn't call any of these hipsters, just very passionate and involved people.
And then there are the people who seem to idealize this sort of lifestyle and wear the clothes that they do and attend the bars that they do out of this haphazard desire to be like that, without sincerity. Maybe that's what a hipster is? I don't know.
I think a good analogy is: think of the time you first started drinking coffee ever. Maybe it was high school and you had your first cup and for a while after then a lot of the action of drinking was tinged with self-awareness and not without irony --- and now, you drink coffee because, hey, you drink coffee and you like the taste and you wake up in the morning and it's this thing that is little more than a passing afterthought and is done without any self-consciousness about the fact that you are actually drinking coffee.
Both incarnations of you are drinking coffee. You're doing the same things, drinking the same liquid, wearing the same clothes, but it's the intention and the expectations behind your actions that sort of bleed out and seem to define whether you're a hipster or not.
posted by suedehead at 1:00 AM on August 14, 2009
And then there are the people who seem to idealize this sort of lifestyle and wear the clothes that they do and attend the bars that they do out of this haphazard desire to be like that, without sincerity. Maybe that's what a hipster is? I don't know.
I think a good analogy is: think of the time you first started drinking coffee ever. Maybe it was high school and you had your first cup and for a while after then a lot of the action of drinking was tinged with self-awareness and not without irony --- and now, you drink coffee because, hey, you drink coffee and you like the taste and you wake up in the morning and it's this thing that is little more than a passing afterthought and is done without any self-consciousness about the fact that you are actually drinking coffee.
Both incarnations of you are drinking coffee. You're doing the same things, drinking the same liquid, wearing the same clothes, but it's the intention and the expectations behind your actions that sort of bleed out and seem to define whether you're a hipster or not.
posted by suedehead at 1:00 AM on August 14, 2009
Because so many nerds post on Metafilter, and nerds are jealous of people who have lots of fun.
posted by dydecker at 1:19 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by dydecker at 1:19 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I know guys who wear skinny jeans but hate indie rock, wear fedoras and exclusively drink mikes hard lemonade. Ironic assholes who rock huge nature beards, yankees hats and champion sweat pants. Rich kids in $3000 custom suits with $500 loafers. All have been called hipsters while at bars with me.
Normally the people talking shit are polo/sweater wearing frat boys, thug gangstas, or people who don't want to get in a fight for calling someone a fag so they stick to the socially acceptable hipster.
My vote goes to insecurity.
posted by laptolain at 1:23 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Normally the people talking shit are polo/sweater wearing frat boys, thug gangstas, or people who don't want to get in a fight for calling someone a fag so they stick to the socially acceptable hipster.
My vote goes to insecurity.
posted by laptolain at 1:23 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, ironically appropriating certain things traditionally associated with the working class - PBR, tacky thrift store clothes, coke-bottle glasses (and, a few years back, trucker hats) - is mean-spirited at best. It comes off as outright mockery, and people react viscerally to that, especially since hipsters are generally thought of as "living off of daddy's money." (I don't know if that reputation is justified, but I've heard it oft-repeated.)
And, yes, anyone who is clearly working very hard to maintain a particular image - sneering, hipper-than-thou attitude, ironically cultivated outfit, clutching the next LP you've never heard of - is going to become a target of disdain. I don't see a desire to maintain authenticity as something "pathological," but rather a necessary pre-requisite for interacting with others in good-faith.
posted by mellifluous at 1:24 AM on August 14, 2009
And, yes, anyone who is clearly working very hard to maintain a particular image - sneering, hipper-than-thou attitude, ironically cultivated outfit, clutching the next LP you've never heard of - is going to become a target of disdain. I don't see a desire to maintain authenticity as something "pathological," but rather a necessary pre-requisite for interacting with others in good-faith.
posted by mellifluous at 1:24 AM on August 14, 2009
And the people who call themselves hipsters...well there's just no hope for them.
posted by laptolain at 1:24 AM on August 14, 2009
posted by laptolain at 1:24 AM on August 14, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:08 PM on August 13, 2009