What do I need to do to get a date?
July 7, 2009 9:35 PM Subscribe
I'm a straight male, just shy of 28, and I can't get a date to save my life. What am I doing wrong?
When I say that I can't get a date, I mean that literally: I have never been on a date (nor kissed or had sex or anything). I've only been approached by one woman (who was looking to cheat on her marriage) and have accumulated a substantial collection of rejections from women I have asked.
Neither I nor any of my friends (male or female) have an explanation for my stunning lack of romantic success. I'm enjoyable company socially; my friends love our conversations, they enjoy my humor, and they appreciate my sensitivity towards others. Although I used to have anxiety issues, they have been treated and my friends tell me that you can't tell I ever had that problem anymore.
I'm very smart--I'm finishing my doctorate in a humanities discipline--but do a decent job of avoiding "shop talk" when out socially, according to my non-academic friends. I don't play dumb, but I do avoid getting fixated on technical academic issues and try to keep my conversations engaging and relevant.
I really love social dancing and have gotten relatively good at it over the last few years.
I'm probably slightly above average in the looks department, and I take decent care of myself. I go to the gym regularly; while I won't be flaunting any six-packs on the beach, I don't have any body issues that worry me.
Yet I can't manage to get a date. My female friends assure me that I would be a good catch, but they're not in the market (and don't have other single friends with which to set me up). I've tried asking women I've just met, asking women I've grown to know over months of seeing each other at dances or around campus, etc., and invariably, she's not interested. It doesn't seem to matter where I try to meet people or how I approach them, whether I try to be friends first or directly ask her out: she's not interested in me romantically. I've been actively trying to date for over ten years, have asked out well over 50 women, and have not gotten as far as a first date with anyone.
So, hive mind, what am I doing wrong? And what do I need to do differently? I'm totally at a loss, and my friends haven't been able to help me out. If you can, I'll be extremely grateful!
When I say that I can't get a date, I mean that literally: I have never been on a date (nor kissed or had sex or anything). I've only been approached by one woman (who was looking to cheat on her marriage) and have accumulated a substantial collection of rejections from women I have asked.
Neither I nor any of my friends (male or female) have an explanation for my stunning lack of romantic success. I'm enjoyable company socially; my friends love our conversations, they enjoy my humor, and they appreciate my sensitivity towards others. Although I used to have anxiety issues, they have been treated and my friends tell me that you can't tell I ever had that problem anymore.
I'm very smart--I'm finishing my doctorate in a humanities discipline--but do a decent job of avoiding "shop talk" when out socially, according to my non-academic friends. I don't play dumb, but I do avoid getting fixated on technical academic issues and try to keep my conversations engaging and relevant.
I really love social dancing and have gotten relatively good at it over the last few years.
I'm probably slightly above average in the looks department, and I take decent care of myself. I go to the gym regularly; while I won't be flaunting any six-packs on the beach, I don't have any body issues that worry me.
Yet I can't manage to get a date. My female friends assure me that I would be a good catch, but they're not in the market (and don't have other single friends with which to set me up). I've tried asking women I've just met, asking women I've grown to know over months of seeing each other at dances or around campus, etc., and invariably, she's not interested. It doesn't seem to matter where I try to meet people or how I approach them, whether I try to be friends first or directly ask her out: she's not interested in me romantically. I've been actively trying to date for over ten years, have asked out well over 50 women, and have not gotten as far as a first date with anyone.
So, hive mind, what am I doing wrong? And what do I need to do differently? I'm totally at a loss, and my friends haven't been able to help me out. If you can, I'll be extremely grateful!
I've been actively trying to date for over ten years, have asked out well over 50 women
If you're counting accurately, that's 5 women a year. That's not very many. Is it possibly you are setting yourself up for failure by incorrectly identifying women who might be attracted to you? I've seen that- people who refuse to pursue those who might be attracted to them because it's easier to deal with "rejection". Have you tried online dating? That could be a good way to wash away your "never had a date" shame. The dates might be boring or even horrible, but that's how a good number of dates end up.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:49 PM on July 7, 2009 [6 favorites]
If you're counting accurately, that's 5 women a year. That's not very many. Is it possibly you are setting yourself up for failure by incorrectly identifying women who might be attracted to you? I've seen that- people who refuse to pursue those who might be attracted to them because it's easier to deal with "rejection". Have you tried online dating? That could be a good way to wash away your "never had a date" shame. The dates might be boring or even horrible, but that's how a good number of dates end up.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:49 PM on July 7, 2009 [6 favorites]
Try the online dating sites, perhaps?
I met my wife at OKcupid.com. We found that it helped enormously in doing two things: a) filtering based on interests and attitudes; b) putting things in a sexual/romantic context from the get-go.
posted by Netzapper at 9:50 PM on July 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
I met my wife at OKcupid.com. We found that it helped enormously in doing two things: a) filtering based on interests and attitudes; b) putting things in a sexual/romantic context from the get-go.
posted by Netzapper at 9:50 PM on July 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
There is no shame in online personals.
In fact, they're a great way to get dating practice. It's much nicer to get rejected by a stranger than it is to be rejected by that girl you've been working up the courage to ask out. Go in with low expectations and don't let yourself be crushed by rejection. Try, try again, and it will eventually work.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:52 PM on July 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
In fact, they're a great way to get dating practice. It's much nicer to get rejected by a stranger than it is to be rejected by that girl you've been working up the courage to ask out. Go in with low expectations and don't let yourself be crushed by rejection. Try, try again, and it will eventually work.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:52 PM on July 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
Being attractive as a man is so about having the right behavior that it's impossible to diagnose your problem over the internet. I'd have to hang out with you and watch you interact with women.
So, I think the best I can do for you is recommend a resource.
This I actually found here on mefi. It's a very solid, comprehensive guide on flirting. Facial gestures, tonality, body language, the whole nine yards: http://www.sirc.org/publik/flirt.html
Good luck.
posted by dualityofmind at 9:54 PM on July 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
So, I think the best I can do for you is recommend a resource.
This I actually found here on mefi. It's a very solid, comprehensive guide on flirting. Facial gestures, tonality, body language, the whole nine yards: http://www.sirc.org/publik/flirt.html
Good luck.
posted by dualityofmind at 9:54 PM on July 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
I agree with turgid dahlia.
You know how sometimes you can't think of a name or a word, and the moment you stop trying to think about it suddenly you get it? Dating can be like that.
Basically, people can smell desperation for a date. It's not really an easy solution, but you need to find something else to occupy your thoughts. You can eventually get to the point where you don't really care if you're single or not, and as long as you have a nice social life and are going out with friends and not staying in at home, that's when someone shows up.
Continuing to look for a match is okay... but don't just ask anyone, like it seems you're doing now.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 9:56 PM on July 7, 2009
You know how sometimes you can't think of a name or a word, and the moment you stop trying to think about it suddenly you get it? Dating can be like that.
Basically, people can smell desperation for a date. It's not really an easy solution, but you need to find something else to occupy your thoughts. You can eventually get to the point where you don't really care if you're single or not, and as long as you have a nice social life and are going out with friends and not staying in at home, that's when someone shows up.
Continuing to look for a match is okay... but don't just ask anyone, like it seems you're doing now.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 9:56 PM on July 7, 2009
I am a fairly outgoing woman in your potential age demographic, and as a data point, I have said no to almost every man who has ever asked me out face-to-face. Why? Sometimes they are too forward, sometimes they are too awkward, sometimes the timing is bad, sometimes I am not looking, sometimes I'm in a hurry, sometimes I don't even really know why but I just don't want to say yes. But I've gone on dates with people I met online. Perhaps I like dates more when I feel like the date is at least halfway happening due to my own initiative....? I'm not sure, but I think you should maybe go there. To the Internets!
posted by pseudostrabismus at 10:08 PM on July 7, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by pseudostrabismus at 10:08 PM on July 7, 2009 [5 favorites]
It doesn't seem to matter where I try to meet people or how I approach them, whether I try to be friends first or directly ask her out: she's not interested in me romantically.
Something doesn't add up here, because what you're describing is literally impossible, unless you are the unluckiest person in the world (you're not). No one gets to 28 without so much as a kiss unless something is way off on their game. Are you asking total strangers out? What happens when you're at a party or a barbecue or the bookstore or work or whatever and you're flirting with a woman? Do you just jump right into "heymaybedoyouwannagooutsometime" five seconds in? Do you have weird standards? Do you only try to date 20 year-olds? Do you live in a small town? There's so many things that you can be doing wrong, especially if you're one of those people who's blind to certain social cues. I don't think I - or anyone else - can help much without any details. Any chance you could reg another account to fill us in?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:13 PM on July 7, 2009 [5 favorites]
Something doesn't add up here, because what you're describing is literally impossible, unless you are the unluckiest person in the world (you're not). No one gets to 28 without so much as a kiss unless something is way off on their game. Are you asking total strangers out? What happens when you're at a party or a barbecue or the bookstore or work or whatever and you're flirting with a woman? Do you just jump right into "heymaybedoyouwannagooutsometime" five seconds in? Do you have weird standards? Do you only try to date 20 year-olds? Do you live in a small town? There's so many things that you can be doing wrong, especially if you're one of those people who's blind to certain social cues. I don't think I - or anyone else - can help much without any details. Any chance you could reg another account to fill us in?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:13 PM on July 7, 2009 [5 favorites]
Good advice above. I have a couple of twists to add...
My female friends assure me that I would be a good catch, but they're not in the market (and don't have other single friends with which to set me up).
In ten years, your friends have NEVER had anyone to set you up with? Not once?
Something smells fishy here, and I wonder if these friends are not being a little too polite with you. I think you need to start asking for a little more help and guidance. Maybe they could take you along on their group outings to other places where you might accidentally meet someone.
Second, to riff on dahlia for a moment: people can sense desperation. Even though you care, and you really really want a date... you can't let that show. You can't actually learn to not care, but you can practice appearing nonchalant.
Also, fifty rejections in ten years is not so bad. If you were really trying, you could probably get rejection fifty times in a week. And then you'd probably be great at shrugging off rejection, too!
posted by rokusan at 10:18 PM on July 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
My female friends assure me that I would be a good catch, but they're not in the market (and don't have other single friends with which to set me up).
In ten years, your friends have NEVER had anyone to set you up with? Not once?
Something smells fishy here, and I wonder if these friends are not being a little too polite with you. I think you need to start asking for a little more help and guidance. Maybe they could take you along on their group outings to other places where you might accidentally meet someone.
Second, to riff on dahlia for a moment: people can sense desperation. Even though you care, and you really really want a date... you can't let that show. You can't actually learn to not care, but you can practice appearing nonchalant.
Also, fifty rejections in ten years is not so bad. If you were really trying, you could probably get rejection fifty times in a week. And then you'd probably be great at shrugging off rejection, too!
posted by rokusan at 10:18 PM on July 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
I've very close to your age and I think your issue may really boil down to people our age don't really date, per se. I mean they do, but the vast, vast amount of people I have "dated" or anyone I know has dated started like this: 1) one, most likely both parties, somewhere between slightly tipsy to ridiculously drunk; 2) 3 am rolls around; 3) someone finally makes a move --> make out ensues. The dating generally occurs after the initial hook up. The only time I really even hear of people going on an actual date first, before anything else, is if they have met on the internet or been set up on a blind date.
So let me just put a disclaimer here before I get attacked, I am not advocating you go around taking advantage of drunk girls. I will also admit the current status quo for dating in our age group is hardly awesome or ideal. It kind of sucks, but this is pretty much how I see things play out easily 90-95% of the time. So maybe if you are at a party and you click with a girl, see if she hangs out with you until 3 am and instead of asking her out just go in for the kiss. Then ask her for her number, go home, and call her in the next day or two.
posted by whoaali at 10:42 PM on July 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
So let me just put a disclaimer here before I get attacked, I am not advocating you go around taking advantage of drunk girls. I will also admit the current status quo for dating in our age group is hardly awesome or ideal. It kind of sucks, but this is pretty much how I see things play out easily 90-95% of the time. So maybe if you are at a party and you click with a girl, see if she hangs out with you until 3 am and instead of asking her out just go in for the kiss. Then ask her for her number, go home, and call her in the next day or two.
posted by whoaali at 10:42 PM on July 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm going to agree with everyone else and say that something seems a little wrong here.
I briefly dated a man who was 25 and had never been kissed and who had never had a romantic relationship of any kind. I was 19 years old at the time. He was very intelligent and attractive enough, and he seemed okay during casual conversation. However, as I got to know him better and better, I began to realize there was something very off-putting about him that I couldn't exactly put my finger on. He was just giving off a weird vibe. When we began to date, he was excited simply "to have a girlfriend". Like there was nothing special that he liked about me in particular. He would talk a lot about how great it was to have a girlfriend in a really general sense, like, "It's so great going to the movies now that I have a girlfriend," or "family functions are so fun to attend now that I have a girlfriend," but never anything along the lines of, "SkylitDrawl, I like going to the movies with you." He made me feel like he would be okay with me being any female at all. He managed to get both a short relationship and his first kiss out of me, but then I became uneasy about how needy and desperate he seemed and how unspecial he made me feel. He was a great guy, but I had to break up with him and it sucked.
I don't know if any of that was helpful to you at all, but I guess what I'm saying is to stop trying so hard already. You may be giving off weird vibes. And when a girl comes along who likes you and wants to date you and kiss you, concentrate on what is cool about HER specifically. I know that you'll be so excited that you'll be all, "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD A GIRL A REAL GIRL KISSING ME SHE'S A GIRL OH GOD OH WOW!" but just remember that she isn't just A Girl stupid enough to go out with you, she's Melissa or Susan or whoever.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 10:43 PM on July 7, 2009 [40 favorites]
I briefly dated a man who was 25 and had never been kissed and who had never had a romantic relationship of any kind. I was 19 years old at the time. He was very intelligent and attractive enough, and he seemed okay during casual conversation. However, as I got to know him better and better, I began to realize there was something very off-putting about him that I couldn't exactly put my finger on. He was just giving off a weird vibe. When we began to date, he was excited simply "to have a girlfriend". Like there was nothing special that he liked about me in particular. He would talk a lot about how great it was to have a girlfriend in a really general sense, like, "It's so great going to the movies now that I have a girlfriend," or "family functions are so fun to attend now that I have a girlfriend," but never anything along the lines of, "SkylitDrawl, I like going to the movies with you." He made me feel like he would be okay with me being any female at all. He managed to get both a short relationship and his first kiss out of me, but then I became uneasy about how needy and desperate he seemed and how unspecial he made me feel. He was a great guy, but I had to break up with him and it sucked.
I don't know if any of that was helpful to you at all, but I guess what I'm saying is to stop trying so hard already. You may be giving off weird vibes. And when a girl comes along who likes you and wants to date you and kiss you, concentrate on what is cool about HER specifically. I know that you'll be so excited that you'll be all, "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD A GIRL A REAL GIRL KISSING ME SHE'S A GIRL OH GOD OH WOW!" but just remember that she isn't just A Girl stupid enough to go out with you, she's Melissa or Susan or whoever.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 10:43 PM on July 7, 2009 [40 favorites]
First, skip the advice you find in most bookstores, or through most media, which boils down to "Be very, very patient and maybe one day the Wheel will land on your number".
Also, ignore the advice given you thus far by your friends, as it hasn't helped you yet.
Instead, just use Google, and you'll find a ton of very precise, granular, and often sharply counterintuitive info that can probably be of great benefit to you... so long as you apply it repeatedly and often. Google well enough, and you can get all the information you need, without spending any money at all.
posted by darth_tedious at 10:55 PM on July 7, 2009
Also, ignore the advice given you thus far by your friends, as it hasn't helped you yet.
Instead, just use Google, and you'll find a ton of very precise, granular, and often sharply counterintuitive info that can probably be of great benefit to you... so long as you apply it repeatedly and often. Google well enough, and you can get all the information you need, without spending any money at all.
posted by darth_tedious at 10:55 PM on July 7, 2009
Oh. N.B., I'm biased, professional stake in the industry, yadda yadda, so take that into account.
posted by darth_tedious at 10:57 PM on July 7, 2009
posted by darth_tedious at 10:57 PM on July 7, 2009
Optimus Chyme:"No one gets to 28 without so much as a kiss
unless something is way off on their game."
I'm 29 and have not been kissed. There are two words I'd like to say but I don't want my post to be deleted.
posted by IndigoRain at 11:02 PM on July 7, 2009 [25 favorites]
unless something is way off on their game."
I'm 29 and have not been kissed. There are two words I'd like to say but I don't want my post to be deleted.
posted by IndigoRain at 11:02 PM on July 7, 2009 [25 favorites]
Do what my (shy, introverted) husband did, at exactly your age: if you meet someone who you seem to click with, ask her out for a goofy/fun/VERY casual 'after-work drink'. Keep it light, even if your heart is racing. To clarify: "keep it light" does NOT mean playing hard to get or being flippant. It means just that - keep things light and low (actually, no) pressure, but sincere.
My husband intended his casual drink invitation to be a Real Date, but his delivery was so casual and friendly (as in "hey, cool, I've met a new friend" vibe) that I didn't feel weird or anxious about expectations--in fact, I didn't even realize it was a date! (He told me later.) Perhaps the women you are asking out are simply feeling the nervousness of a potential First Date.
Of course, the casual drink (a.k.a. date) went extremely well, and I think it helped that there were no expectations--and during the course of the evening I realized I really liked him, in more than just a pal-friendly way. A year-and-a-half later, we were married.
Keep it super-casual and no-pressure (even more casual than you think is necessary), and I bet you will find that your prospects change. You sound like a good person with a great deal to offer to the right lady. Best of luck to you!
posted by parkerama at 11:13 PM on July 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
My husband intended his casual drink invitation to be a Real Date, but his delivery was so casual and friendly (as in "hey, cool, I've met a new friend" vibe) that I didn't feel weird or anxious about expectations--in fact, I didn't even realize it was a date! (He told me later.) Perhaps the women you are asking out are simply feeling the nervousness of a potential First Date.
Of course, the casual drink (a.k.a. date) went extremely well, and I think it helped that there were no expectations--and during the course of the evening I realized I really liked him, in more than just a pal-friendly way. A year-and-a-half later, we were married.
Keep it super-casual and no-pressure (even more casual than you think is necessary), and I bet you will find that your prospects change. You sound like a good person with a great deal to offer to the right lady. Best of luck to you!
posted by parkerama at 11:13 PM on July 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm a woman in the same boat. Welcome aboard. The key is not caring. I disagree with conventional wisdom that 'not caring' means you'll suddenly become desirable.
By not caring you realize life can be fulfilling on your own. Having dated a lot prior to grad school, I then hit an "oh my god no man will even talk to me " wall in grad school. But then something clicked. Now I am quite satisfied living life single. Maybe that day will come for you too.
But for you dating is uncharted territory, and I can understand why you want to date. Why on earth don't you devote more to the hobby guaranteed to make you a commodity of sorts among women: social dancing!! That is where you start because so few men show up stag at those events.
I've seen this happen with a very close Dutch friend of mine. He competed professionally in Europe before he came to the US for grad school. When he took up ballroom dancing as a hobby again, he had really stunning success meeting, dating, and flirting with women.
There might also something somewhat unusual about how you approach women. It's hard to know without having seen you 'in action.' Worry about that some other time. Find a dancing event in your area and go to one or more this weekend. Good luck!
If you choose to do that, let us know how it goes. Or memail me if you don't want to post in the thread.
posted by vincele at 12:00 AM on July 8, 2009
By not caring you realize life can be fulfilling on your own. Having dated a lot prior to grad school, I then hit an "oh my god no man will even talk to me " wall in grad school. But then something clicked. Now I am quite satisfied living life single. Maybe that day will come for you too.
But for you dating is uncharted territory, and I can understand why you want to date. Why on earth don't you devote more to the hobby guaranteed to make you a commodity of sorts among women: social dancing!! That is where you start because so few men show up stag at those events.
I've seen this happen with a very close Dutch friend of mine. He competed professionally in Europe before he came to the US for grad school. When he took up ballroom dancing as a hobby again, he had really stunning success meeting, dating, and flirting with women.
There might also something somewhat unusual about how you approach women. It's hard to know without having seen you 'in action.' Worry about that some other time. Find a dancing event in your area and go to one or more this weekend. Good luck!
If you choose to do that, let us know how it goes. Or memail me if you don't want to post in the thread.
posted by vincele at 12:00 AM on July 8, 2009
Lower your standards.
Or, learn to exude confidence. Confidence - not smug, not cocky, not know-it-all. Being aloof is a good place to start. turgid's "not caring" is an essential factor. Coolness counts.
There's something off about your self-profile: "they appreciate my sensitivity towards others." If your friends are telling you this, it's code for something, and it's not flattering, but I can't think of what it is right now.
posted by jabberjaw at 12:35 AM on July 8, 2009
Or, learn to exude confidence. Confidence - not smug, not cocky, not know-it-all. Being aloof is a good place to start. turgid's "not caring" is an essential factor. Coolness counts.
There's something off about your self-profile: "they appreciate my sensitivity towards others." If your friends are telling you this, it's code for something, and it's not flattering, but I can't think of what it is right now.
posted by jabberjaw at 12:35 AM on July 8, 2009
Online dating was my first thought. Your post kind of sounds as though you haven't tried that, so I presume there's some reason for it? Also assuming that you are in the US based on the tone of the post... i.e. not from a cultural background that might affect how you meet prospective mates, in a way we can't see. Also assuming no unusual cultural factors such as you are Amish.
Is it possible that you are being too picky? If you are only asking out five women a year, which means one person every ten weeks... and you also happen to only be asking out the drop-dead gorgeous, Nobel-winning, marathon runners... you might be setting yourself up for failure. The odds just aren't with you in that case.
I too am slightly puzzled that none of your friends have ever tried to set you up. Networking is networking and what works in the professional realm works in the personal too: when you connect people, sometimes the connection sticks. Sometime it doesn't... but you make 0% of the connections you never attempt.
My single friends and acquaintances who are interested in finding a mate, I am always willing to try to casually connect, hoping they find a spark. This is pretty standard among the people I know; it's what friends do. Again, this seems to be a numbers game... what are the odds that none of your friends have ever met a person they thought you might like to meet for coffee?
If your friends aren't doing that, then I agree with rokusan's theory that something is wrong that we aren't aware of. Either your friends are self-absorbed, or there is something un-set-uppable about you that they won't tell you*.
Can you engineer an "informational interview" with a girl whose opinion matters to you? I'm not sure how you find her... maybe friend of a friend, that you've not met in person yet. Maybe even an attached friend who would be willing to help you on this. Tell her beforehand that you need a "mystery shopper", someone to speak frankly and plainly to you about what it is that is turning girls off before you can even get to acceptance for a date.
And then go on a fake date with her. Chat her up. Bring your A game. At the end of the evening, ask her for her unvarnished opinion. It might seem an odd idea but it certainly can't hurt any worse than not knowing what's really going on.
*Something that occurs to me... at 28, some people will look askance at a person who has never had any physical romance or relationship. "Something must be wrong with him... he might look and act fine... but there's got to be some reason that he's never had a date," goes the thinking.
And assuming you are approaching women around your age, it stands to reason that a lot of the women you are asking out are likely more experienced than you too; the idea of "breaking newbies in" might be intimidating, or maybe seems like a hassle.
So, is it possible that your friends are actually unwittingly sandbagging you? Witness:
Your friend Jane meets a cute new hire at her office who seems funny, nice and single. Jane instantly thinks of you. Jane waits a couple of weeks while getting to know the new girl, and then over lunch one day, mentions her single guy friend. Jane jokingly mentions off-hand, "be warned, he's a virgin though!"
Cue immediate internal reaction of "Something must be wrong with that dude... he might look and act fine... but there's got to be some reason that he's never had a date or a girlfriend or any kind of sex."
Lots of people meet their mates through their social circle. If you've really been actively trying to meet women for multiple years with no luck, then something is wrong with you, or something is wrong with your social circle. Maybe you could set up a new, separate social circle (dance class friends? work friends? university club? hobby group? singles activity club? church group? toastmasters?) -- only, keep your romantic history (or lack thereof) private with this new group, so that in efforts to introduce you around, they don't inadvertently poison the well.
Failing any of this, I think you have to put your best friendship to the test. I think that whoever is the person that you identify as your closest friend, you have to ask them to be brutally honest with you and help you analyze this problem.
posted by pineapple at 12:50 AM on July 8, 2009 [5 favorites]
Is it possible that you are being too picky? If you are only asking out five women a year, which means one person every ten weeks... and you also happen to only be asking out the drop-dead gorgeous, Nobel-winning, marathon runners... you might be setting yourself up for failure. The odds just aren't with you in that case.
I too am slightly puzzled that none of your friends have ever tried to set you up. Networking is networking and what works in the professional realm works in the personal too: when you connect people, sometimes the connection sticks. Sometime it doesn't... but you make 0% of the connections you never attempt.
My single friends and acquaintances who are interested in finding a mate, I am always willing to try to casually connect, hoping they find a spark. This is pretty standard among the people I know; it's what friends do. Again, this seems to be a numbers game... what are the odds that none of your friends have ever met a person they thought you might like to meet for coffee?
If your friends aren't doing that, then I agree with rokusan's theory that something is wrong that we aren't aware of. Either your friends are self-absorbed, or there is something un-set-uppable about you that they won't tell you*.
Can you engineer an "informational interview" with a girl whose opinion matters to you? I'm not sure how you find her... maybe friend of a friend, that you've not met in person yet. Maybe even an attached friend who would be willing to help you on this. Tell her beforehand that you need a "mystery shopper", someone to speak frankly and plainly to you about what it is that is turning girls off before you can even get to acceptance for a date.
And then go on a fake date with her. Chat her up. Bring your A game. At the end of the evening, ask her for her unvarnished opinion. It might seem an odd idea but it certainly can't hurt any worse than not knowing what's really going on.
*Something that occurs to me... at 28, some people will look askance at a person who has never had any physical romance or relationship. "Something must be wrong with him... he might look and act fine... but there's got to be some reason that he's never had a date," goes the thinking.
And assuming you are approaching women around your age, it stands to reason that a lot of the women you are asking out are likely more experienced than you too; the idea of "breaking newbies in" might be intimidating, or maybe seems like a hassle.
So, is it possible that your friends are actually unwittingly sandbagging you? Witness:
Your friend Jane meets a cute new hire at her office who seems funny, nice and single. Jane instantly thinks of you. Jane waits a couple of weeks while getting to know the new girl, and then over lunch one day, mentions her single guy friend. Jane jokingly mentions off-hand, "be warned, he's a virgin though!"
Cue immediate internal reaction of "Something must be wrong with that dude... he might look and act fine... but there's got to be some reason that he's never had a date or a girlfriend or any kind of sex."
Lots of people meet their mates through their social circle. If you've really been actively trying to meet women for multiple years with no luck, then something is wrong with you, or something is wrong with your social circle. Maybe you could set up a new, separate social circle (dance class friends? work friends? university club? hobby group? singles activity club? church group? toastmasters?) -- only, keep your romantic history (or lack thereof) private with this new group, so that in efforts to introduce you around, they don't inadvertently poison the well.
Failing any of this, I think you have to put your best friendship to the test. I think that whoever is the person that you identify as your closest friend, you have to ask them to be brutally honest with you and help you analyze this problem.
posted by pineapple at 12:50 AM on July 8, 2009 [5 favorites]
You're in to social dancing and you still can't get a date? Seriously? I don't know what's wrong, but it's something your friends should be able to tell you, if they cared enough about you and a little less about your feelings. Here's what I would do if I were you: Find a mentor. Pick a guy that you think is successful with women (either at maintaining long-term relationships or at serial dating, whichever one you're after), and ask him to evaluate what you're doing right or wrong. Go out to a bar, or a social dance, and have him as your wingman. Then ask for the critique. And if you don't have any guy friends that are successful with women, then make some.
posted by Happydaz at 1:04 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Happydaz at 1:04 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
http://roissy.wordpress.com
(To get started, search for his post summarizing his best posts from the first year.)
The Game
After getting the basic idea, watch e.g. My Best Friend's Girl (2008) (exaggerated but quite accurate; ignore the ending).
posted by renovatio1 at 1:22 AM on July 8, 2009
(To get started, search for his post summarizing his best posts from the first year.)
The Game
After getting the basic idea, watch e.g. My Best Friend's Girl (2008) (exaggerated but quite accurate; ignore the ending).
posted by renovatio1 at 1:22 AM on July 8, 2009
There's some good advice in this thread. One part of your question stood out to me:
"I'm very smart..."
Yeah, this rings alarm bells for me. I'm sure you are smart, but the fact that you list it as one of your defining characteristics makes me wonder if perhaps you consider yourself smarter than most people you meet.
I know a bunch of 'very smart' people. People with PhDs from top universities and careers I can only dream of. Some of them are brilliant, well-liked and utterly dateable. Others are brilliant, but lonely. People don't warm to them, because there's something in their manner that says "I'm being nice to you now, but deep down I know that I'm your intellectual superior". Their attitude repels everyone, including those who are just as smart as they are. Conversely, the people who are both brilliant and dateable would never, never describe themselves as 'very smart'. It wouldn't even cross their minds.
You seem to be handling your perceived intellectual superiority with grace. It doesn't sound as though you're intentionally talking down to people you meet. But you might want to re-think how high your intelligence sits in your list of important personal qualities. I hope you end up with someone who's an intellectual match for you, but remember that it willl be your social skills, not your intellect, which will get you that first date. Try changing your focus: make it your mission to learn something from everyone you meet.
posted by embrangled at 1:44 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
"I'm very smart..."
Yeah, this rings alarm bells for me. I'm sure you are smart, but the fact that you list it as one of your defining characteristics makes me wonder if perhaps you consider yourself smarter than most people you meet.
I know a bunch of 'very smart' people. People with PhDs from top universities and careers I can only dream of. Some of them are brilliant, well-liked and utterly dateable. Others are brilliant, but lonely. People don't warm to them, because there's something in their manner that says "I'm being nice to you now, but deep down I know that I'm your intellectual superior". Their attitude repels everyone, including those who are just as smart as they are. Conversely, the people who are both brilliant and dateable would never, never describe themselves as 'very smart'. It wouldn't even cross their minds.
You seem to be handling your perceived intellectual superiority with grace. It doesn't sound as though you're intentionally talking down to people you meet. But you might want to re-think how high your intelligence sits in your list of important personal qualities. I hope you end up with someone who's an intellectual match for you, but remember that it willl be your social skills, not your intellect, which will get you that first date. Try changing your focus: make it your mission to learn something from everyone you meet.
posted by embrangled at 1:44 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Firstly a note about "28 and never been kissed". Yours is an unusual condition but one that merely puts you in, say, 0.5 to 1% of the population. If you were to randomly find yourself in a room with 100 others like you I suspect you would be surprised by how many were not hideous, psychopathic or very smelly. There would probably be a few others with PhDs or other backgrounds which have allowed them to submerge themselves in work at the expense of relationships.
A few years ago the BBC brought out a series called "Would Like to Meet" (example clip, website). Each episode would feature somebody who was having dating problems. They would be coached by a "Seduction squad" of people who knew about clothes, body language, self-confidence, etc. The program took the standard "makeover" format starting by showing the featured person with all their flaws, taking them through various lessons, having them try out those lessons and finally going for a proper date.
OK - it was only a TV program - but you might want to take an approach a little like that. I'd echo the recommendations above for those who have said you should seek out two or three mentors amongst your friends to confide all of the above to and to ask for their help. I would look for both male and female mentors (but not a female mentor you aim to date). Ask them to look at the way you look, dress, behave in a social environment and offer their suggestions for what you could do to improve. Get them to help you put together a profile for an online dating site (this can be a great exercise in helping you state what your selling points are and what sort of person you are looking for). Together set some sub-goals and then see how you get on. Expect the experience to be scary but exhilarating. Good luck!
posted by rongorongo at 3:00 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
A few years ago the BBC brought out a series called "Would Like to Meet" (example clip, website). Each episode would feature somebody who was having dating problems. They would be coached by a "Seduction squad" of people who knew about clothes, body language, self-confidence, etc. The program took the standard "makeover" format starting by showing the featured person with all their flaws, taking them through various lessons, having them try out those lessons and finally going for a proper date.
OK - it was only a TV program - but you might want to take an approach a little like that. I'd echo the recommendations above for those who have said you should seek out two or three mentors amongst your friends to confide all of the above to and to ask for their help. I would look for both male and female mentors (but not a female mentor you aim to date). Ask them to look at the way you look, dress, behave in a social environment and offer their suggestions for what you could do to improve. Get them to help you put together a profile for an online dating site (this can be a great exercise in helping you state what your selling points are and what sort of person you are looking for). Together set some sub-goals and then see how you get on. Expect the experience to be scary but exhilarating. Good luck!
posted by rongorongo at 3:00 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
You are not flirting with women. Spend 3 months just flirting. No asking out on dates during that time. How to flirt? Eye contact.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:43 AM on July 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 3:43 AM on July 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
A few thoughts:
Social dancing is great, but in at least one area I've been in (SF Bay area) the odds are actually not in your favor, so it's not a guarantee. Also, please tell me you are dancing to dance. If you're dancing To Meet Women (capitalization intentional) then that comes across and is probably pretty irritating.
Next, yeah, you really need some in-person help here. Maybe the problem is simple to fix, but your friends are trying to be kind and haven't told you-- you smell funny, you dress like a slob, you drool incessantly. We can't guess these things over the interwebs.
Of course we can't guess more subtle problems which are harder to fix, or might be harder for your friends to describe for you; people have mentioned a few possibilities here above, others include: maybe you're a crazy egotist who thinks of every interaction only in terms of himself; maybe your standards are too high; maybe your standards are too *low* and even though you rarely ask out women you might be making it clear that you're interested in anything female that walks through the door; maybe you're too nervous and that comes across; maybe you're too un-nervous and women can't fathom that you're into them. Maybe women think you're not into them because you come across as gay. Maybe every time a girl does get interested you freak out and push her away. We just can't tell.
So yes, you simply must get feedback from an honest friend, hopefully from a few of them, hopefully from more than one gender.
If that doesn't help, on the bright side, what we can't tell over the internet, people looking at your online dating profile can't tell either. Post a profile, use it actively, and see what happens. (Caveat: there are some people, like myself, who just can't manage to do the internet dating thing. But if you haven't tried it, do so- I've got plenty of friends who swear by it).
posted by nat at 3:47 AM on July 8, 2009 [4 favorites]
Social dancing is great, but in at least one area I've been in (SF Bay area) the odds are actually not in your favor, so it's not a guarantee. Also, please tell me you are dancing to dance. If you're dancing To Meet Women (capitalization intentional) then that comes across and is probably pretty irritating.
Next, yeah, you really need some in-person help here. Maybe the problem is simple to fix, but your friends are trying to be kind and haven't told you-- you smell funny, you dress like a slob, you drool incessantly. We can't guess these things over the interwebs.
Of course we can't guess more subtle problems which are harder to fix, or might be harder for your friends to describe for you; people have mentioned a few possibilities here above, others include: maybe you're a crazy egotist who thinks of every interaction only in terms of himself; maybe your standards are too high; maybe your standards are too *low* and even though you rarely ask out women you might be making it clear that you're interested in anything female that walks through the door; maybe you're too nervous and that comes across; maybe you're too un-nervous and women can't fathom that you're into them. Maybe women think you're not into them because you come across as gay. Maybe every time a girl does get interested you freak out and push her away. We just can't tell.
So yes, you simply must get feedback from an honest friend, hopefully from a few of them, hopefully from more than one gender.
If that doesn't help, on the bright side, what we can't tell over the internet, people looking at your online dating profile can't tell either. Post a profile, use it actively, and see what happens. (Caveat: there are some people, like myself, who just can't manage to do the internet dating thing. But if you haven't tried it, do so- I've got plenty of friends who swear by it).
posted by nat at 3:47 AM on July 8, 2009 [4 favorites]
Ask women out. If they say no, ask them why. Don't make a big deal of it, just say, "Look, I've been getting lots of rejections lately, and I was wondering why you said no. Please be honest. Don't spare my feelings. I just need some honest feedback."
Also, try online dating.
posted by smorange at 3:52 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, try online dating.
posted by smorange at 3:52 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
SkylitDrawl gave some VERY good advice. Read it very carefully.
Your approach to dating seems to be, "Lemme ask a good number of women whom I think has qualities I would like on paper, hopefully one of them accepts me. Then, yippey!" This is called desperation -- desperate to get a girlfriend, any girl would do, as long as she looks decent, doesn't smell, and is kinda normal. As other posters have mentioned, women can smell desperation a mile away. Among ourselves, we'll be like, "omg, there's that guy who only wants a girlfriend for the sake of having a girlfriend. let's go somewhere else." And if you do manage to get a girlfriend by this method, she's going to be somewhat insecure and needy, because she has settled for someone who doesn't really like her for her, but only likes her for her companionship and her girlfriendship.
Instead of asking an average of 5 women a year, try making friends with women for the sake of making friends (and with no ulterior motives, not even to date). If you find yourself really enjoying one particular person's company (you like talking to her a lot, and you look forward to times you spend alone, you feel sparkly when you're around her), THEN and ONLY then, you can ask her out. This special person comes once in a blue moon (maybe once a year if you're lucky), so stop asking every girl whom you had a conversation with out. Quantity does not mean quality.
posted by moiraine at 4:32 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Your approach to dating seems to be, "Lemme ask a good number of women whom I think has qualities I would like on paper, hopefully one of them accepts me. Then, yippey!" This is called desperation -- desperate to get a girlfriend, any girl would do, as long as she looks decent, doesn't smell, and is kinda normal. As other posters have mentioned, women can smell desperation a mile away. Among ourselves, we'll be like, "omg, there's that guy who only wants a girlfriend for the sake of having a girlfriend. let's go somewhere else." And if you do manage to get a girlfriend by this method, she's going to be somewhat insecure and needy, because she has settled for someone who doesn't really like her for her, but only likes her for her companionship and her girlfriendship.
Instead of asking an average of 5 women a year, try making friends with women for the sake of making friends (and with no ulterior motives, not even to date). If you find yourself really enjoying one particular person's company (you like talking to her a lot, and you look forward to times you spend alone, you feel sparkly when you're around her), THEN and ONLY then, you can ask her out. This special person comes once in a blue moon (maybe once a year if you're lucky), so stop asking every girl whom you had a conversation with out. Quantity does not mean quality.
posted by moiraine at 4:32 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm kind of with whoaali. Try shooting to have "a beer" rather than "a date."
posted by kmennie at 4:42 AM on July 8, 2009
posted by kmennie at 4:42 AM on July 8, 2009
Rejecting people is not super pleasant. Making yourself easy to reject also makes you easier to date.
Unless it's someone I already know pretty well (or someone devastatingly attractive), it's hard to have a sense, from a first meeting, about whether or not I'll want to 'date' (ie, more than once) that person. If it seems like it'll just be more trouble to reject him later than it would be to reject him now (because he'll be mopey, or keep calling, or want explanations and then call me a bitch if I give them) then I'll probably just do that.
If I get the sense that he's not disproportionately invested in me (or in 'dating'), and that he has good social skills and will get a hint and not require an explicit, painful rejection, and that he won't expect me to smooch him on the first date, then I'm more likely to meet him up with him later, even if I'm not *sure* that I'm interested. That gets to one date.
Same thing for the next. If I get the sense he's way more into me than I am into him, then even if I think that maybe, with more time together, my interest and attraction could grow and lead to something, I'll not go on a second date because I don't want to feel pressured into (what feels to me) like premature romance or physical intimacy.
From my perspective, I feel more comfortable doing the whole dating thing (which as someone above said, is NOT the only way to meet someone, or even a great way or a common way for our generation) if I feel like he doesn't have expectations of me beyond getting to know each other a little bit over drinks/dinner, whatever.
Also, unless I have a really good feeling about a first date, I don't like to let they guy pay for me, so I feel better going to some place that I can easily afford!
posted by Salamandrous at 5:15 AM on July 8, 2009
Unless it's someone I already know pretty well (or someone devastatingly attractive), it's hard to have a sense, from a first meeting, about whether or not I'll want to 'date' (ie, more than once) that person. If it seems like it'll just be more trouble to reject him later than it would be to reject him now (because he'll be mopey, or keep calling, or want explanations and then call me a bitch if I give them) then I'll probably just do that.
If I get the sense that he's not disproportionately invested in me (or in 'dating'), and that he has good social skills and will get a hint and not require an explicit, painful rejection, and that he won't expect me to smooch him on the first date, then I'm more likely to meet him up with him later, even if I'm not *sure* that I'm interested. That gets to one date.
Same thing for the next. If I get the sense he's way more into me than I am into him, then even if I think that maybe, with more time together, my interest and attraction could grow and lead to something, I'll not go on a second date because I don't want to feel pressured into (what feels to me) like premature romance or physical intimacy.
From my perspective, I feel more comfortable doing the whole dating thing (which as someone above said, is NOT the only way to meet someone, or even a great way or a common way for our generation) if I feel like he doesn't have expectations of me beyond getting to know each other a little bit over drinks/dinner, whatever.
Also, unless I have a really good feeling about a first date, I don't like to let they guy pay for me, so I feel better going to some place that I can easily afford!
posted by Salamandrous at 5:15 AM on July 8, 2009
Five per year is way too low, first of all. If you were serious about this, you'd be flirting with (and perhaps asking out, or just casually hanging out with) a lot more women.
But that said, until you can figure out what is "off" in your self-presentation, don't just jump into asking out a magnitude more women. I really like the suggestion of finding honest, in-person advice about how people see you, and how you can perhaps make some changes in order to have things work out better. Your friends are not helping you, and I'd suggest looking elsewhere.
Normally, I'm absolutely not a fan of the "pick up artist" approach. But reading your story, I'd honestly say you sound like a perfect candidate for one of the sort of workshops and coaching described in this article (which later became a book, I believe, and there have been tv shows and documentaries, as well). There are creepy underlying attitudes towards women and sexuality in the PUA approach that rub me the wrong way -- but I think the basic confidence building of being coached through successfully flirting and so on could be amazing for you.
posted by Forktine at 5:28 AM on July 8, 2009
But that said, until you can figure out what is "off" in your self-presentation, don't just jump into asking out a magnitude more women. I really like the suggestion of finding honest, in-person advice about how people see you, and how you can perhaps make some changes in order to have things work out better. Your friends are not helping you, and I'd suggest looking elsewhere.
Normally, I'm absolutely not a fan of the "pick up artist" approach. But reading your story, I'd honestly say you sound like a perfect candidate for one of the sort of workshops and coaching described in this article (which later became a book, I believe, and there have been tv shows and documentaries, as well). There are creepy underlying attitudes towards women and sexuality in the PUA approach that rub me the wrong way -- but I think the basic confidence building of being coached through successfully flirting and so on could be amazing for you.
posted by Forktine at 5:28 AM on July 8, 2009
Definitely learn how to flirt to show someone you like that you are interested. Your friends that say you are a great catch don't really help unless they tell you what you need to improve to do the catching. The big thing you have to watch out for is showing too much sensitivity. Sometimes that can be a turn off. Most women like guys because they are masculine and as such, mysterious. Be a man. That's not saying you have to treat women like shit. So, find a model or mentor that exudes the masculinity you can relate to and try to follow some of those cues. Is it the clothes he wears, the cologne, the stubble of his face, the way he walks, the way he looks at a woman, etc???
posted by JJ86 at 5:56 AM on July 8, 2009
posted by JJ86 at 5:56 AM on July 8, 2009
I wish I was there to say, "Let's go out." But, I'm not. The best advice I can give you is to be yourself. A woman will notice you and you should be subtle. Try it on the bus. If a woman looks at you, write a note with your name and Coffee? followed by your number. Don't say anything and get off the bus. The worst she can do is laugh and put it in her bag, lest she let someone think she's going to let you get away with such a bold piece of character drama.
Good luck!
posted by parmanparman at 6:13 AM on July 8, 2009
Good luck!
posted by parmanparman at 6:13 AM on July 8, 2009
SkylitDrawl's advice reminded me a bit of this comment (and most of that thread is worth a read, too). Presumably your goal is to be in a romantic relationship with someone who likes you for who you are, and not because you're The Only Guy Who Said Yes. Same with everyone you ask out.
How often do you socialize or try new activities with the thought, "I wonder if I can meet anyone to date here?" For at least a while, stop that. Don't think it, don't use it as your motivation to go out. Frame it more in terms of meeting new people, of mixed gender/sexual orientation/availability.
Unfortunately, as others have said, we don't really know what you're like in person, so we can't tell you if anything needs adjusting there. Someone who knows you well and whose opinion you trust should be able to help.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:21 AM on July 8, 2009
How often do you socialize or try new activities with the thought, "I wonder if I can meet anyone to date here?" For at least a while, stop that. Don't think it, don't use it as your motivation to go out. Frame it more in terms of meeting new people, of mixed gender/sexual orientation/availability.
Unfortunately, as others have said, we don't really know what you're like in person, so we can't tell you if anything needs adjusting there. Someone who knows you well and whose opinion you trust should be able to help.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:21 AM on July 8, 2009
Let me add that I think you should focus on dating within your program and within other communities of doctoral graduates. You probably find one of the greater limitations with your graduate work is that you cannot altogether divorce it when you are dating - although you are skilled in more social settings - I think all scholars have this problem. With marriage there arrives a compromise and often children to mellow out the conversations, but within the dating realm the conversation of 'work' often becomes a beast and burden.
There is so much about dating that seems impractical. Firstly, because dating poses the implicit risk of never going anywhere. A date, after a long semi-romance, feels like a deal breaker at the end of the evening. Take relationships that spring up over facebook or Craigslist. The reason they work there is that one person (or both, in some cases) becomes infatuated with the ease of communication when they cannot see the other person. When human contact occurs it can often be less than positive circumstances as the conversational tactics have abruptly changed for no good reason.
The problem with dates is that it is very difficult to vent real frustrations. You essentially have to work those in while leaving plenty of room for the romantic individual although the two are inextricably linked. Perhaps if you offered a date with no holds barred in conversation it may proceed better. I will give it a try this weekend and update as to whether this works at all.
posted by parmanparman at 6:29 AM on July 8, 2009
There is so much about dating that seems impractical. Firstly, because dating poses the implicit risk of never going anywhere. A date, after a long semi-romance, feels like a deal breaker at the end of the evening. Take relationships that spring up over facebook or Craigslist. The reason they work there is that one person (or both, in some cases) becomes infatuated with the ease of communication when they cannot see the other person. When human contact occurs it can often be less than positive circumstances as the conversational tactics have abruptly changed for no good reason.
The problem with dates is that it is very difficult to vent real frustrations. You essentially have to work those in while leaving plenty of room for the romantic individual although the two are inextricably linked. Perhaps if you offered a date with no holds barred in conversation it may proceed better. I will give it a try this weekend and update as to whether this works at all.
posted by parmanparman at 6:29 AM on July 8, 2009
Ask women out. If they say no, ask them why. Don't make a big deal of it, just say, "Look, I've been getting lots of rejections lately, and I was wondering why you said no. Please be honest. Don't spare my feelings. I just need some honest feedback."
No, no no no! Do NOT do this. I can't even begin to describe how uncomfortable this would make me - I think equally uncomfortable if we were strangers or had been friends before. I would be weirded out and probably warn my friends not to date you. By all means, ask the advice of female friends (and maybe even male friends) that you are not romantically interested in, but pick ones you know can be brutally honest. Otherwise, I don't see why you haven't tried online dating, just don't make a big deal about never having been in a relationship.
posted by fermezporte at 6:53 AM on July 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm a little dismayed at the answers telling you "not to care", and would actually encourage the opposite. Do care, as it's not just about finding someone willing to go out with you, but finding someone who you will be ecstatic to be with. Don't lower your standards, increase them: make yourself more interesting, learn what makes social situations click, and constantly strive to improve your self-esteem.
I come from a scientific, academic background as well, and believe there is value in spending time trying to figure out how these things work. You already spend hours upon hours on every detail regarding your doctorate subject, why wouldn't it be worth it to do the same with finding a life partner, with IMHO is much more important. Read literature in social sciences, psychology, self-improvement, etc., ask your friends for suggestions, be proactive (and somewhat persistent) in asking women out. Don't be a creep that treats women like statistics, but do try to understand what you are lacking or doing wrong, and how to improve yourself.
Good luck!
posted by gushn at 6:55 AM on July 8, 2009
I come from a scientific, academic background as well, and believe there is value in spending time trying to figure out how these things work. You already spend hours upon hours on every detail regarding your doctorate subject, why wouldn't it be worth it to do the same with finding a life partner, with IMHO is much more important. Read literature in social sciences, psychology, self-improvement, etc., ask your friends for suggestions, be proactive (and somewhat persistent) in asking women out. Don't be a creep that treats women like statistics, but do try to understand what you are lacking or doing wrong, and how to improve yourself.
Good luck!
posted by gushn at 6:55 AM on July 8, 2009
Ok, I have read most of the post above and there is some good advice. However it is from people who do not have your perspective. I am a shy person around women that I do not know as well. I work out but do not have the ultimate beach body. For the longest time I was like you. How to break you shell is be happy with who you are right now. You need to be 100% with yourself as a solo individual before you can invite someone else into your life. Love is not about taking and taking; it is about giving and giving. If you have nothing to give to a relationship then why would someone want to be in one with you?
As for getting a date... you just don't get a date. It is not something you can just find, it finds you.
As for your female friends not hooking you up, they never do. So it does not surprise me in the least bit that they have never tried.
Do not listen to can't miss or master pimp advice type things. These don't work. They try to change who you really are. There is nothing that you can say to a woman that will make her automatically jump into bed with you. And if you do get a girlfriend this way, do you really want to keep pretending? Be yourself.
As for finding someone, I hate to say it but most of the time you hook up with a girl these days. Long have passed are the days of "Hey I think you are swell. Lets go out to the ice cream social! I promise to have you home by 10." Now it is out somewhere, see someone giving you a look and you go talk to them. Nothing is structured it just happens by chance. If alcohol is involved people normally sample the goods first. My problem and this might be yours as well is that I am 90% oblivious to noticing when a woman in interested in me or I will not be interested in the woman at all.
Lastly it sounds like you have a personal moral code of Never Cheating with anyone. Good stick to this. This world needs more good people like yourself. It seems that I as well have a flock of girls with BFs or husbands interested in me. It can seem like months go by and that is the only type of women attracted to me. Stick with your guns here. You are doing the right thing.
In short:
1 - Be happy with who you are, single or otherwise
2 - See a relationship as an addition to who you are.
3 - Do not actively look for a date, just let it happen.
4 - Never depend on female friends for any relationships. The odds are very low that they will come through for you.
5 - Methods and surefired get laid quick schemes do not work. Be yourself.
6 - Lose the old fashion "Let's date!!!" idea. It is almost 2010... not 1950. If you meet a girl and you hook up once or twice you are on your way to being in a relationship.
7 - Try to find a way to be less than 90% oblivious and you will be doing better than me.
Good luck sir.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 6:56 AM on July 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
As for getting a date... you just don't get a date. It is not something you can just find, it finds you.
As for your female friends not hooking you up, they never do. So it does not surprise me in the least bit that they have never tried.
Do not listen to can't miss or master pimp advice type things. These don't work. They try to change who you really are. There is nothing that you can say to a woman that will make her automatically jump into bed with you. And if you do get a girlfriend this way, do you really want to keep pretending? Be yourself.
As for finding someone, I hate to say it but most of the time you hook up with a girl these days. Long have passed are the days of "Hey I think you are swell. Lets go out to the ice cream social! I promise to have you home by 10." Now it is out somewhere, see someone giving you a look and you go talk to them. Nothing is structured it just happens by chance. If alcohol is involved people normally sample the goods first. My problem and this might be yours as well is that I am 90% oblivious to noticing when a woman in interested in me or I will not be interested in the woman at all.
Lastly it sounds like you have a personal moral code of Never Cheating with anyone. Good stick to this. This world needs more good people like yourself. It seems that I as well have a flock of girls with BFs or husbands interested in me. It can seem like months go by and that is the only type of women attracted to me. Stick with your guns here. You are doing the right thing.
In short:
1 - Be happy with who you are, single or otherwise
2 - See a relationship as an addition to who you are.
3 - Do not actively look for a date, just let it happen.
4 - Never depend on female friends for any relationships. The odds are very low that they will come through for you.
5 - Methods and surefired get laid quick schemes do not work. Be yourself.
6 - Lose the old fashion "Let's date!!!" idea. It is almost 2010... not 1950. If you meet a girl and you hook up once or twice you are on your way to being in a relationship.
7 - Try to find a way to be less than 90% oblivious and you will be doing better than me.
Good luck sir.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 6:56 AM on July 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm probably the worst person to give advice on this (my dating stats are even less frequent than yours) however:
1.) The advice thats always been given to me is: "You need to be asking out more women." You say "have asked out well over 50 women in the past 10 years".... thats way Way WAY to low. The advice I've always heard is you should be asking out 5 to 10 women A WEEK. (Hell, 5 to 10 a month would be a huge improvement over your stats) ...
But here's the subtle lesson. The goal is NOT to simply increase your asking frequency. (That will just end up making you look desperate as you quickly run from one girl to the next trying to eventually find anybody who will say "yes") The actual end-result from asking more often is "practice makes perfect". The more you do it, the better you should get at it. The other subtle effect it has is that setting a goal to ask out more women forces you to directly address the issue of widening your social exploration. You may THINK you are active and have cast a wide net across the sea of singles, but it never hurts to turn over new rocks. As others have mentioned, you might be unintentionally sabotaging yourself by focusing your date-invitations on a subset of females that simply aren't your type. Widening your social circle helps expose you to new potential pools of fish ;P
2.) The most gregarious and fun times I've had interacting with other singles have been person-to-person internet meetups (Fark parties, Metafilter meetups, etc). You're surrounded by a healthy variety of like minded people who you'll have a minimum of stuff in common with (all from the same website,etc) to make good conversation, but its also freeform enough to let the social dynamic wander (and to some degree most participants also have the unspoken understanding that meetups have the potential of being "hookups" as well as a great way to spark chemistry if thats what you are looking for.
3.) i also agree with various advice above that your best bet is just to stop looking for it so hard. ("stop caring") . Almost without exception, all of the relationships I've had were sparked during a time when I wasnt looking. I honestly dont believe that "not caring" is what attracts people. I think the side effects are what attract people. When you stop worrying about dating (stop caring), you become more independent, carefree, and are radiating a vibe that tells people "I dont have dependency issues". (as opposed to the constant dating-search, which while part of being human, if its done wrong, can give off the wrong impression that you are desperate to be in a relationship. Desperation kills potential faster than anything)
posted by jmnugent at 7:01 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
1.) The advice thats always been given to me is: "You need to be asking out more women." You say "have asked out well over 50 women in the past 10 years".... thats way Way WAY to low. The advice I've always heard is you should be asking out 5 to 10 women A WEEK. (Hell, 5 to 10 a month would be a huge improvement over your stats) ...
But here's the subtle lesson. The goal is NOT to simply increase your asking frequency. (That will just end up making you look desperate as you quickly run from one girl to the next trying to eventually find anybody who will say "yes") The actual end-result from asking more often is "practice makes perfect". The more you do it, the better you should get at it. The other subtle effect it has is that setting a goal to ask out more women forces you to directly address the issue of widening your social exploration. You may THINK you are active and have cast a wide net across the sea of singles, but it never hurts to turn over new rocks. As others have mentioned, you might be unintentionally sabotaging yourself by focusing your date-invitations on a subset of females that simply aren't your type. Widening your social circle helps expose you to new potential pools of fish ;P
2.) The most gregarious and fun times I've had interacting with other singles have been person-to-person internet meetups (Fark parties, Metafilter meetups, etc). You're surrounded by a healthy variety of like minded people who you'll have a minimum of stuff in common with (all from the same website,etc) to make good conversation, but its also freeform enough to let the social dynamic wander (and to some degree most participants also have the unspoken understanding that meetups have the potential of being "hookups" as well as a great way to spark chemistry if thats what you are looking for.
3.) i also agree with various advice above that your best bet is just to stop looking for it so hard. ("stop caring") . Almost without exception, all of the relationships I've had were sparked during a time when I wasnt looking. I honestly dont believe that "not caring" is what attracts people. I think the side effects are what attract people. When you stop worrying about dating (stop caring), you become more independent, carefree, and are radiating a vibe that tells people "I dont have dependency issues". (as opposed to the constant dating-search, which while part of being human, if its done wrong, can give off the wrong impression that you are desperate to be in a relationship. Desperation kills potential faster than anything)
posted by jmnugent at 7:01 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm probably slightly above average in the looks department, and I take decent care of myself.
What do you female friends say about your looks? That's the question that really needs to be asked, because it all starts with looks. If they say you're good looking or cute or anything positive, then you're giving off some sort of vibe. One of them has to know what that vibe is.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:03 AM on July 8, 2009
What do you female friends say about your looks? That's the question that really needs to be asked, because it all starts with looks. If they say you're good looking or cute or anything positive, then you're giving off some sort of vibe. One of them has to know what that vibe is.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:03 AM on July 8, 2009
Anonymous? I'm not going to lie: it's pretty ridiculous that in order to get a date, some people are telling you to not want the date, which follows no system of logic or reason I'm aware of.
But the weird thing is that it's true, and if you can divorce your sense of self from your success in women, I think you'll be a lot happier.
And being happier, more successful with women.
posted by trotter at 7:17 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
But the weird thing is that it's true, and if you can divorce your sense of self from your success in women, I think you'll be a lot happier.
And being happier, more successful with women.
posted by trotter at 7:17 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
I noticed that most of the posters that suggest you should ask out more women, and 5 a year is too low (?!!), are male.
And most of the posters that suggest you should increase your standards, be more picky, and be overall less desperate, are female. Who presumably know what tactics/ methods work on them.
(Note I said "most", not "all")
Anyway, one last thing: You are 28 and you haven't even gotten a first date? That seems really weird to me. As a female, I know that I *generally* try to give guys a first date (a pity date, if you will) even if I am not romantically attracted, except if he's really sketch or weird. I might not kiss him, or hold hands, but I will go for coffee or a meal or something. I know that most of my friends do too -- it's hard to turn someone down if they're asking you out in person! Plus, it's rather insulting not to even give the guy a chance after he made an effort to ask you out.
Obviously, I don't know you, but I suspect you might be giving off a weird/ sketch vibe. Ask your female friends to be honest with you.
posted by moiraine at 7:18 AM on July 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
And most of the posters that suggest you should increase your standards, be more picky, and be overall less desperate, are female. Who presumably know what tactics/ methods work on them.
(Note I said "most", not "all")
Anyway, one last thing: You are 28 and you haven't even gotten a first date? That seems really weird to me. As a female, I know that I *generally* try to give guys a first date (a pity date, if you will) even if I am not romantically attracted, except if he's really sketch or weird. I might not kiss him, or hold hands, but I will go for coffee or a meal or something. I know that most of my friends do too -- it's hard to turn someone down if they're asking you out in person! Plus, it's rather insulting not to even give the guy a chance after he made an effort to ask you out.
Obviously, I don't know you, but I suspect you might be giving off a weird/ sketch vibe. Ask your female friends to be honest with you.
posted by moiraine at 7:18 AM on July 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
Lots of great advice here. Looking at the people I know who don't date, haven't dated in years, and don't know what they're doing wrong, I can only echo others who say that what you're probably not doing is flirting.
If you can flirt successfully, then so much of the rest is already taken care of. Flirting, which can be done whenever you meet an available woman (more than 5x/year, one assumes), incorporates so many signals, so many elements mentioned in these comments already. Flirting signals that:
* you're enjoying the other person's company specifically,
*you're light-hearted, other-focused and not desperate -- the focus is on the other person and who they are, not on yourself and what you need,
*you're interested in the pleasure of the moment and not on a future outcome, so it feels casual, not earnest, like a pick-up game of football and not the Super Bowl
* you're appreciating and engaging with the mysterious power of sensuality, sexuality, and romantic attraction
* you're having fun and wanting the other person to have fun, too
hmmm ... This will also be of help later when sex does enter the picture. Same 'rules' apply.
Good luck! (*wink*)
posted by mmw at 7:44 AM on July 8, 2009
If you can flirt successfully, then so much of the rest is already taken care of. Flirting, which can be done whenever you meet an available woman (more than 5x/year, one assumes), incorporates so many signals, so many elements mentioned in these comments already. Flirting signals that:
* you're enjoying the other person's company specifically,
*you're light-hearted, other-focused and not desperate -- the focus is on the other person and who they are, not on yourself and what you need,
*you're interested in the pleasure of the moment and not on a future outcome, so it feels casual, not earnest, like a pick-up game of football and not the Super Bowl
* you're appreciating and engaging with the mysterious power of sensuality, sexuality, and romantic attraction
* you're having fun and wanting the other person to have fun, too
hmmm ... This will also be of help later when sex does enter the picture. Same 'rules' apply.
Good luck! (*wink*)
posted by mmw at 7:44 AM on July 8, 2009
Ok...while I think there’s lots of good and relevant advice in the posts above, there’s another possibility that no one seems to have mentioned: body odour. If you’ve asked out tons of women in many different situations and none of them will even give you a chance, I wonder if something physical is turning them off from the get-go. I’ve known plenty of people who have chronic bad breath – sometimes extremely bad – that no one tells them about. It’s a very awkward thing to bring up with people, and often they are oblivious to their problem or don’t solve it to the level necessary. There are people like this guy and plenty more examples in this post. Perhaps you need a thorough, honest evaluation of your...aroma.
It's not the most likely possibility, but it is a possibility.
posted by yawper at 7:47 AM on July 8, 2009
It's not the most likely possibility, but it is a possibility.
posted by yawper at 7:47 AM on July 8, 2009
My advice would be to have a good look at who you're asking out, or who your interested in. I was in the same situation - and in a moment of clarity I looked at the guys I had pursued, they were inevitably unavailable to me, because they were already in a relationship, they were dedicated to something else (ie work, athletics) or they were just emotional idiots. The conclusion: they were safe - I got to feel like I was looking for something without ever having to deal with the horribly scary (to me) world of love and hurt. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that I was the one blocking this. The point was driven home by a male friend who noted that everytime he moved closer for an effort at more intimate conversation, I literally moved away a bit (I hadn't noticed). Even when I did start dating, the first few men I went out with were still relatively unavailable for anything serious. It was a couple more years before I took the risk and actually got involved with someone who was available. And I did get hurt. But I tried again.
I'm not saying this is necessarily what's going on with you, but it's worth a critical look. Some of us, due to our baggage, just take longer to be ready to be in a relationship. Looking at my brother, some people never are ready to be in a relationship. There's a lot of risk in it, and it's easy to pretend you're playing the game when you're not. You can even pretend to yourself.
For the record, I was '29 and never been kissed'. Now I'm 35 and married. Happily.
posted by scrute at 8:31 AM on July 8, 2009
I'm not saying this is necessarily what's going on with you, but it's worth a critical look. Some of us, due to our baggage, just take longer to be ready to be in a relationship. Looking at my brother, some people never are ready to be in a relationship. There's a lot of risk in it, and it's easy to pretend you're playing the game when you're not. You can even pretend to yourself.
For the record, I was '29 and never been kissed'. Now I'm 35 and married. Happily.
posted by scrute at 8:31 AM on July 8, 2009
okcupid.com
Without going into a lot of details, my brother has used this site for a couple years and has met some really interesting women this way. One has a science PhD who dropped out to become an organic farmer. Another was a literature professor. These are just a couple examples, not all were like that. But he really has liked using it. I'm pretty sure it's free too, and I think it's less high pressure ohmygodineedtogetmarried.
I have two other couple friends who are happily married and found each other through online dating.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 8:39 AM on July 8, 2009
Without going into a lot of details, my brother has used this site for a couple years and has met some really interesting women this way. One has a science PhD who dropped out to become an organic farmer. Another was a literature professor. These are just a couple examples, not all were like that. But he really has liked using it. I'm pretty sure it's free too, and I think it's less high pressure ohmygodineedtogetmarried.
I have two other couple friends who are happily married and found each other through online dating.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 8:39 AM on July 8, 2009
Chat rooms. Find a chat room that focuses on the area where you live. Yes, even on AOL or Yahoo. Just hang out and talk. You'll find interesting people to talk to and some of them will be women. Some of them will be men and you may meet women through them. Just let things evolve naturally and eventually you'll find yourself hanging out with people and going on dates with women.
posted by kindall at 8:47 AM on July 8, 2009
posted by kindall at 8:47 AM on July 8, 2009
Your friends think you're in the closet, and that's why they don't set you up with women. Maybe other women read you as gay, too - sensitive, good looking, good dancer, isn't overbearing?
I don't have a solution to this, since I certainly don't think you should change the above qualities, but it was my first thought upon reading the question.
posted by desjardins at 8:52 AM on July 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
I don't have a solution to this, since I certainly don't think you should change the above qualities, but it was my first thought upon reading the question.
posted by desjardins at 8:52 AM on July 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
I agree with online dating. You seem to have some traction issues getting things of the ground, but if you are who you say you are (intelligent, caring, smart) once you get setup it should take off from there.
posted by stratastar at 8:57 AM on July 8, 2009
posted by stratastar at 8:57 AM on July 8, 2009
There is great advice in this thread. I hope it's helpful - maybe you could add your thoughts by emailing to a mod.
This is a weird suggestion, but what would you think about outting your location as a comment through a mod if you're uncomfortable with posting from your username. Whereever you are, if there are local mefites, let's put the power of metafilter to work on getting you a date and a kiss! Maybe a mini-meetup where people can get to know you and connect you with their single friends or give you straightforward feedback?
posted by jasper411 at 9:43 AM on July 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
This is a weird suggestion, but what would you think about outting your location as a comment through a mod if you're uncomfortable with posting from your username. Whereever you are, if there are local mefites, let's put the power of metafilter to work on getting you a date and a kiss! Maybe a mini-meetup where people can get to know you and connect you with their single friends or give you straightforward feedback?
posted by jasper411 at 9:43 AM on July 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
I know moiraine said you should go for quality over quantity in dating but I'd have to disagree (yes I am a guy). Dating is not all about the search for a LTR and isn't always about sex. Dating more, even if it is just for one date, starts to get you a better idea of what works and what doesn't. You will get a better idea of who you are looking for and what aspect of your persona is marketable.(You probably like WOW but it won't help you get a second date if you talk about it excitedly) The only way to be a good date is by practicing dating. The biggest hurdle for you is to get over the thinking that you should only date people you want to have an LTR with. I can honestly say I passed up lots of opportunities because they didn't fit this idealized version of a woman that I would never be able to obtain.
posted by JJ86 at 9:44 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by JJ86 at 9:44 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you think to yourself "I'm almost 28 and I've never even been on a date... There must be something Wrong with me!" then that attitude is going to come across when you talk to women. Not only will it come across when you talk to women, but it will invade every aspect of your life.
The first step is to completely dismiss the idea that there might be something inherently Wrong with you. There's not. You aren't that special. You are exactly the same as everyone else: you were born, you will die, and in between you'll do a lot of stupid and often regrettable things. Did I mention you'll die after that? Keep that part in mind, because it'll help you get over the irrational "Oh poor me, I'm un-datable" nonsense.
If you're as smart as you say you are (and I do believe that you are), then use that rational mind of yours to refute your irrational thoughts. When you hear yourself thinking self deprecating thoughts, counter them with an objective look at the situation: "It's true that I don't have any experience with dating, but that doesn't mean I'm not capable. In fact, I actually have a lot to offer a woman... etc."
There is a lot of great advice in this thread about how you can go about getting dates, but those things will only work if you have the right attitude about yourself. Perhaps I'm wrong and you have perfect self-esteem and a confident demeanor, but you simply don't wear deodorant or something. But I know that if I were in your position (and I was until very recently) I would believe I was somehow defective. Start fixing that first, then go join OKCupid.
I know this sounds like it's easier said than done, but it really is as simple as changing your thought patterns. Read The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem, A Guide to Rational Living, and/or Learned Optimism, and do the exercises they suggest.
posted by tipthepizzaguy at 10:06 AM on July 8, 2009
The first step is to completely dismiss the idea that there might be something inherently Wrong with you. There's not. You aren't that special. You are exactly the same as everyone else: you were born, you will die, and in between you'll do a lot of stupid and often regrettable things. Did I mention you'll die after that? Keep that part in mind, because it'll help you get over the irrational "Oh poor me, I'm un-datable" nonsense.
If you're as smart as you say you are (and I do believe that you are), then use that rational mind of yours to refute your irrational thoughts. When you hear yourself thinking self deprecating thoughts, counter them with an objective look at the situation: "It's true that I don't have any experience with dating, but that doesn't mean I'm not capable. In fact, I actually have a lot to offer a woman... etc."
There is a lot of great advice in this thread about how you can go about getting dates, but those things will only work if you have the right attitude about yourself. Perhaps I'm wrong and you have perfect self-esteem and a confident demeanor, but you simply don't wear deodorant or something. But I know that if I were in your position (and I was until very recently) I would believe I was somehow defective. Start fixing that first, then go join OKCupid.
I know this sounds like it's easier said than done, but it really is as simple as changing your thought patterns. Read The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem, A Guide to Rational Living, and/or Learned Optimism, and do the exercises they suggest.
posted by tipthepizzaguy at 10:06 AM on July 8, 2009
In my experience, it doesn't matter so much whether you "Try more" or "Try less"; it's all about being in the right frame of mind. Whatever being in the right frame of mind means, some people have it. Fortunately for the rest of us, it's possible to fake it. One way to do that is to think of something funny when you're talking to her. Don't say it out loud, of course. Just have a little happy thought that you keep to yourself. It'll come through. You'll automatically smile more, etc. For example, ironically make the most bloody obvious comment possible. "I see you're reading a book there, eh?" I hear some people groaning. But I think this is actually a really good tip. If you do it ironically, it'll go over well. There was a comment recently in another thread about that. (searches favorites) Ok here it is:
How to talk like a Canadian: (or the mystery of eh?)
Stop what you are doing and make a comment about the obvious, so - "Hot enough for ya? (eh?) or "Laundry day eh?" or "I'm reading Infinite Jest too- I love Hal's character (Iz a big book eh?)
That's it. Soliciting peoples comments is strait forward - you are inviting them in with simple questions.
posted to Ask Metafilter by zenon at 9:28 AM on June 25, 2009
Try it out on the next girl you meet. She won't know what you're smiling at. She'll just assume you're confident and fun to be around. Faking it is the first step, of course. Eventually the "right frame of mind" will become natural!
posted by metastability at 10:25 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
How to talk like a Canadian: (or the mystery of eh?)
Stop what you are doing and make a comment about the obvious, so - "Hot enough for ya? (eh?) or "Laundry day eh?" or "I'm reading Infinite Jest too- I love Hal's character (Iz a big book eh?)
That's it. Soliciting peoples comments is strait forward - you are inviting them in with simple questions.
posted to Ask Metafilter by zenon at 9:28 AM on June 25, 2009
Try it out on the next girl you meet. She won't know what you're smiling at. She'll just assume you're confident and fun to be around. Faking it is the first step, of course. Eventually the "right frame of mind" will become natural!
posted by metastability at 10:25 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Forget giving up and *gag* hoping the butterfly lands on your shoulder. Not caring is not a solution; not trying only works if you're the overeager sort who reeks of desperation. You don't know why this is happening, and that's the first thing you have to address.
Why? Well, unless you're obviously obnoxious in an AskMe, nobody here can answer that for you. Your friends won't tell you, maybe because you're not asking them out on dates, maybe because they don't want to hurt your feelings. Maybe your introspection is busted entirely or you have a blind spot in this area, but you have admitted you cannot supply the answer. People online can give you dating tips, but only someone who knows you in the flesh and has rejected you knows precisely why they have done so.
How do you find out? Before you ask someone who is single out on a date, put a hundred dollar bill in your pocket. This was going to be your base budget for the date. If she says no, you pull out the cash.
This is hard, and it can be humiliating. That's okay. Humiliation is a great way to reduce some bad personality flaw to rubble and build anew; humiliation is painful but often revelatory. Do not turn away from this opportunity, even if it hurts. Good luck, and keep your courage up.
posted by adipocere at 10:49 AM on July 8, 2009
Why? Well, unless you're obviously obnoxious in an AskMe, nobody here can answer that for you. Your friends won't tell you, maybe because you're not asking them out on dates, maybe because they don't want to hurt your feelings. Maybe your introspection is busted entirely or you have a blind spot in this area, but you have admitted you cannot supply the answer. People online can give you dating tips, but only someone who knows you in the flesh and has rejected you knows precisely why they have done so.
How do you find out? Before you ask someone who is single out on a date, put a hundred dollar bill in your pocket. This was going to be your base budget for the date. If she says no, you pull out the cash.
"I will give you this hundred dollar bill if you tell me why. It was my date budget but now it's my 'What's Wrong With Me?' budget. I haven't had a date in N number of years, I cannot figure out for the life of me what I'm doing wrong. Be honest. No, be cruel. I'm a twenty-seven year old virgin and I do not know what it is about me or what I'm doing that is keeping me this way."Obviously, the dollar amount will vary depending on your circumstances. People will lie, but a trend ought to emerge. Maximize your outcomes by asking out the known-single and learning to read people for truth versus lies. It could be your clothes, your nose, practically anything. You might be dating "out of your league," it might be your approach — you don't know, but this is how you can find out. Yes, some will be taken aback, some will stammer or be reluctant to answer. At this point, you have nothing to lose, if you're of the Local H ("I don't need another 'friend' / I've got too many 'friends'") mindset.
This is hard, and it can be humiliating. That's okay. Humiliation is a great way to reduce some bad personality flaw to rubble and build anew; humiliation is painful but often revelatory. Do not turn away from this opportunity, even if it hurts. Good luck, and keep your courage up.
posted by adipocere at 10:49 AM on July 8, 2009
I'm just going to say here that what you don't say is as important as what you do say; and I can hear you saying, what does THAT mean?
I have a few single guy friends who are nice, great, have good jobs, cute, the total package.
What are they doing wrong?
They constantly say negative things about themselves and lament the fact that they don't have a girlfriend.
As in, they get drunk at parties, become maudlin, and say derogatory comments about themselves. Then they beg every friend within earshot to "find me a girlfriend, please."
They don't probably even realize they are doing it.
Have an honest conversation with your female friends. At worst, ask one of them to tail you on a night out where you approach women and critique what you're doing.
Yes, it will be hard. It will be sort of odd. If you have a close female friend (or male, but make sure it's someone WHO ABOVE ALL WILL BE HONEST WITH YOU--honest, not cruel).
Find out what you are unconsciously doing or saying that's putting girls off. Make sure the person can see you when you do it and read both you and your intended girl's body language, etc.
You may be doing something off-putting without realizing it, like denigrating yourself, constantly scratching, stuttering, staring at the girl in a weird way, or trying too hard.
Everyone above me pegged the desperation vibe you may be putting out, but you need to figure out HOW you appear desperate or weird to girls and what you can do to stop that.
Online dating is definitely a good option; it's easier to email someone and face silent rejection than having someone literally say no to your face. That said, you also need to NOT ask girls out on dates, but ask them to do group things with friends so that you can gauge whether or not they're actually suited to dating you and show any interest as friends first sometimes.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:57 AM on July 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
I have a few single guy friends who are nice, great, have good jobs, cute, the total package.
What are they doing wrong?
They constantly say negative things about themselves and lament the fact that they don't have a girlfriend.
As in, they get drunk at parties, become maudlin, and say derogatory comments about themselves. Then they beg every friend within earshot to "find me a girlfriend, please."
They don't probably even realize they are doing it.
Have an honest conversation with your female friends. At worst, ask one of them to tail you on a night out where you approach women and critique what you're doing.
Yes, it will be hard. It will be sort of odd. If you have a close female friend (or male, but make sure it's someone WHO ABOVE ALL WILL BE HONEST WITH YOU--honest, not cruel).
Find out what you are unconsciously doing or saying that's putting girls off. Make sure the person can see you when you do it and read both you and your intended girl's body language, etc.
You may be doing something off-putting without realizing it, like denigrating yourself, constantly scratching, stuttering, staring at the girl in a weird way, or trying too hard.
Everyone above me pegged the desperation vibe you may be putting out, but you need to figure out HOW you appear desperate or weird to girls and what you can do to stop that.
Online dating is definitely a good option; it's easier to email someone and face silent rejection than having someone literally say no to your face. That said, you also need to NOT ask girls out on dates, but ask them to do group things with friends so that you can gauge whether or not they're actually suited to dating you and show any interest as friends first sometimes.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:57 AM on July 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm nthing the "online dating" thing. If you ask out women whom you don't know are looking for dates, you're going to get lots of rejections because lots of them won't be looking for dates. Women on online dating sites are looking for dates. Some of them will be interested in a date with you.
Once you get the first olive out of the bottle, the rest is easier. My husband didn't go on a date until he was 25. After that, he had several very nice girlfriends, both long-term and short-term, over the next ten years and eventually met a wife whom he seems to like just fine.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:08 AM on July 8, 2009
Once you get the first olive out of the bottle, the rest is easier. My husband didn't go on a date until he was 25. After that, he had several very nice girlfriends, both long-term and short-term, over the next ten years and eventually met a wife whom he seems to like just fine.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:08 AM on July 8, 2009
When you want something so, so badly that you care about so, so much- the thing is almost always elusive. I never see any reason to strain my brain with overthinking.
On a different note- where on earth are you? Do you want to eat out sometime?
posted by xm at 11:46 AM on July 8, 2009
On a different note- where on earth are you? Do you want to eat out sometime?
posted by xm at 11:46 AM on July 8, 2009
I am wondering if your asking for the date to early or asking in a very awkward manner.
Make sure you are getting some type of positive signal before you pop the question. And when you pop the question, turn it into a statement and not a question. "I'd like to call you sometime", or "I think we should have a coffee sometime soon" is alot easier to deliver and receive than "Um, can we go on a date???".
In my younger years, I always wanted to chat up the hottest girl in the room, regardless if they were smart, interesting, or showed interest. It led me to approaching super-hot girls as opposed to girls that were cool. I most likely missed out of some awesome relationships because I was being superficial. Good looking women can be intimidating and it will come off weird if you are nervous. They may also be boring as hell which will make the situation even more strange. Needless to say, I got shot down quite a bit. I am not saying to stay away from attractive girls, but sometimes guys acts like idiots when trying to flirt with someone they think is good looking. Your success rate will be higher if you look around and find girls who make you feel comfortable and not intimidated. If you can find a gorgeous girl who makes you feel great, thats a bonus. Just to cover my butt here, intelligent women are also intimidating but it sounds like you can hold your own in that department.
Finally, I would stop looking for dates and start trying to have coffee. Having a coffee is the least committed form of date you can have. It can last 5 minutes or as long as you like. If you need to get the hell out of dodge because it isn't going well, you can politely excuse yourself and not have to wait for your main course to arrive.
posted by jasondigitized at 12:23 PM on July 8, 2009
Make sure you are getting some type of positive signal before you pop the question. And when you pop the question, turn it into a statement and not a question. "I'd like to call you sometime", or "I think we should have a coffee sometime soon" is alot easier to deliver and receive than "Um, can we go on a date???".
In my younger years, I always wanted to chat up the hottest girl in the room, regardless if they were smart, interesting, or showed interest. It led me to approaching super-hot girls as opposed to girls that were cool. I most likely missed out of some awesome relationships because I was being superficial. Good looking women can be intimidating and it will come off weird if you are nervous. They may also be boring as hell which will make the situation even more strange. Needless to say, I got shot down quite a bit. I am not saying to stay away from attractive girls, but sometimes guys acts like idiots when trying to flirt with someone they think is good looking. Your success rate will be higher if you look around and find girls who make you feel comfortable and not intimidated. If you can find a gorgeous girl who makes you feel great, thats a bonus. Just to cover my butt here, intelligent women are also intimidating but it sounds like you can hold your own in that department.
Finally, I would stop looking for dates and start trying to have coffee. Having a coffee is the least committed form of date you can have. It can last 5 minutes or as long as you like. If you need to get the hell out of dodge because it isn't going well, you can politely excuse yourself and not have to wait for your main course to arrive.
posted by jasondigitized at 12:23 PM on July 8, 2009
I don't have anything to add, but I just wanted to say that threads like these are like therapy to me, a 23 year old woman who's in the same boat as anonymous. Sometimes I beat myself up about that-- what is wrong with me, why don't guys like me, am I destined to be an old maid forever?-- and reading about people who were 29 or 25 and never been kissed but ended up hapily married, or people who have been single forever and have full, happy lives makes me feel better. It gives me another chance to tell myself "there is nothing wrong with you." So thank you everyone who has posted.
Anonymous, if you were anywhere near me we have coffee together and evaluate what we need to do differently.
posted by jschu at 12:29 PM on July 8, 2009
Anonymous, if you were anywhere near me we have coffee together and evaluate what we need to do differently.
posted by jschu at 12:29 PM on July 8, 2009
I'm an ugly, usually quiet guy who has had shocking success with beautiful women. Looking back, I realize that almost everyone I've dated / slept with since college I met at one of my various jobs. I hardly ever asked anyone out -- just socialized a lot and one thing led to another. Alcohol was often involved.
Interestingly, now that I work in academia, I know several grad students who are in the same boat as you. They don't work and spend a lot of time studying, so they rarely meet women. My advice: Go to parties and clubs with friends and work to expand your social circle beyond other students. The more you socialize and meet new people, the more success you'll have. And if all else fails, get a part-time job where you'll constantly meet new people -- even a seasonal job at Borders or something -- and enjoy.
posted by coolguymichael at 12:56 PM on July 8, 2009
Interestingly, now that I work in academia, I know several grad students who are in the same boat as you. They don't work and spend a lot of time studying, so they rarely meet women. My advice: Go to parties and clubs with friends and work to expand your social circle beyond other students. The more you socialize and meet new people, the more success you'll have. And if all else fails, get a part-time job where you'll constantly meet new people -- even a seasonal job at Borders or something -- and enjoy.
posted by coolguymichael at 12:56 PM on July 8, 2009
Your friends think you're in the closet, and that's why they don't set you up with women. Maybe other women read you as gay, too - sensitive, good looking, good dancer, isn't overbearing?
I gotta say, I came in here to say pretty much exactly this. COULD people be reading you like this?
posted by tristeza at 1:23 PM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
I gotta say, I came in here to say pretty much exactly this. COULD people be reading you like this?
posted by tristeza at 1:23 PM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
I disagree with the people who say that no one dates anymore. I'm 30 and I go on dates frequently. To me a date consists of two people who are interested in each other doing something they consider fun - going out to dinner, going to a play, going bowling, etc.
On the other hand, I have never had someone come up to me and ask, "Would you like go on a date?" It goes more along the lines of, "Would you like to see a movie?" When you ask women out, are you serious/formal? I would recommend being casual about it. Showing too much intensity at first can scare women away.
There are lots of different people in the world and I don't think there is something "wrong" with you for never having kissed someone.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:29 PM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, I have never had someone come up to me and ask, "Would you like go on a date?" It goes more along the lines of, "Would you like to see a movie?" When you ask women out, are you serious/formal? I would recommend being casual about it. Showing too much intensity at first can scare women away.
There are lots of different people in the world and I don't think there is something "wrong" with you for never having kissed someone.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:29 PM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Now that I've had a good night's sleep, I've something to add.
Unlike the OP, I've been on a few single dates, and I've been in a long-term relationship (13 months)... it's just he didn't tell me until 6 months into it that he was the type of Christian that took "True Love Waits" a little too far and wanted his first kiss on the lips to be on his wedding day. I kissed him on the cheek one day and he nearly flew backwards across the room... nice reaction.
But Optimus Chyme's post made me feel like a freak.
Firstly a note about "28 and never been kissed". Yours is an unusual condition but one that merely puts you in, say, 0.5 to 1% of the population. If you were to randomly find yourself in a room with 100 others like you I suspect you would be surprised by how many were not hideous, psychopathic or very smelly. There would probably be a few others with PhDs or other backgrounds which have allowed them to submerge themselves in work at the expense of relationships.
Thank you Rongorongo.
Anonymous, I wish you lots of luck in the future.
posted by IndigoRain at 5:51 PM on July 8, 2009
Unlike the OP, I've been on a few single dates, and I've been in a long-term relationship (13 months)... it's just he didn't tell me until 6 months into it that he was the type of Christian that took "True Love Waits" a little too far and wanted his first kiss on the lips to be on his wedding day. I kissed him on the cheek one day and he nearly flew backwards across the room... nice reaction.
But Optimus Chyme's post made me feel like a freak.
Firstly a note about "28 and never been kissed". Yours is an unusual condition but one that merely puts you in, say, 0.5 to 1% of the population. If you were to randomly find yourself in a room with 100 others like you I suspect you would be surprised by how many were not hideous, psychopathic or very smelly. There would probably be a few others with PhDs or other backgrounds which have allowed them to submerge themselves in work at the expense of relationships.
Thank you Rongorongo.
Anonymous, I wish you lots of luck in the future.
posted by IndigoRain at 5:51 PM on July 8, 2009
No, no no no! Do NOT do this. I can't even begin to describe how uncomfortable this would make me - I think equally uncomfortable if we were strangers or had been friends before. I would be weirded out and probably warn my friends not to date you.
Which is worse than the current situation of not getting those dates anyway? Asking people what's wrong is uncomfortable and awkward, but it might work to correct the long-term problem, which is that no one's friends are going on dates with him.
posted by smorange at 10:15 PM on July 8, 2009
Which is worse than the current situation of not getting those dates anyway? Asking people what's wrong is uncomfortable and awkward, but it might work to correct the long-term problem, which is that no one's friends are going on dates with him.
posted by smorange at 10:15 PM on July 8, 2009
I met my wife at OKcupid.com.
Ooh! Me too! Okay, so we're not married just yet. A little under 6 weeks to go, wow.
The awesome thing about OkCupid is that as you fill out the questions you get paired with people who are increasingly compatible with you. I would recommend going onto the site, filling out your information totally honestly, go to "Find Matches" and do a reverse sort by match percentage.
Look for women with a percentage over 80%, whether they match your perceived notion of your "ideal woman" or not. Once you've found a potential date, use the following text, word for word:
posted by Deathalicious at 10:43 PM on July 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
Ooh! Me too! Okay, so we're not married just yet. A little under 6 weeks to go, wow.
The awesome thing about OkCupid is that as you fill out the questions you get paired with people who are increasingly compatible with you. I would recommend going onto the site, filling out your information totally honestly, go to "Find Matches" and do a reverse sort by match percentage.
Look for women with a percentage over 80%, whether they match your perceived notion of your "ideal woman" or not. Once you've found a potential date, use the following text, word for word:
So, apparently according OkCupid you and I have a good chance of getting along.Worked for me!
Care to test their algorithm?
posted by Deathalicious at 10:43 PM on July 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
And most of the posters that suggest you should increase your standards, be more picky, and be overall less desperate, are female. Who presumably know what tactics/ methods work on them.
Fiddlesticks and hogwash, I say. People are notoriously bad self-observers.
In any case, when a guy tells another guy to be less "picky" he is saying something different than when a woman tells a woman the same thing. Basically, "be less picky" to a guy means abandon your conception of the ideal woman. Note that the message isn't "give up on dating someone who is attractive." Instead, it's an invitation to broaden your definition of a woman you'd date. Maybe in your mind you always picture dating a tall, slender redhead. But here is a short brunette who is pretty cute and actually a better personality match. Date her. It's very easy to get set in your mind who you ask out and who you don't. If I were the type of guy who asked people out in a bar (I'm not), at the time I probably wouldn't have approached my current fiancee in a bar simply because, and this is really stupid, she didn't match the image I had in my mind of the woman I wanted to date. So thank goodness we met online, where I was able to gather a lot more factors ... including the fact that we were extremely compatible.
Women are going to be shocked at the "5 is a low number" because even though it is the 21st century, men are still the ones who ask out. A woman is a lot less likely to remember a simple "No" than the guy is going to remember the agony of gathering up the courage to approach her only to be brushed away. 5 is really low. Even guys who aren't desperate might routinely ask out 2-3 women in a bar in a single night.
I'd recommend combining "more" with "smarter". Online dating is great because you can recreate the opening scene -- approaching the girl, finding out a little bit about her -- without actually having to do so in real life. You can't tell just by looking whether or not you're going to like someone, so an online profile is far better for this purpose.
A good goal would be to contact somewhere between 15-20 of your matches on OkCupid (because why would you use any other dating site?!?). Actually, it might be good to try to seek out partners who are similarly inexperienced, so that they might relate or understand your perspective. Keep the messages light. Sometimes you can start out by simply asking them more about themselves: if one of the photos they're in is interesting, ask them about it. If they've traveled to a far off country, ask them about their experiences. And so on.
Finally, it's not so much about desperation or not caring as it is finding fulflilment and wholeness in yourself. I know that sounds like crap right now, but you have to find something that makes you feel...full. Hunger is a huge turn-off in men.
posted by Deathalicious at 11:18 PM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Fiddlesticks and hogwash, I say. People are notoriously bad self-observers.
In any case, when a guy tells another guy to be less "picky" he is saying something different than when a woman tells a woman the same thing. Basically, "be less picky" to a guy means abandon your conception of the ideal woman. Note that the message isn't "give up on dating someone who is attractive." Instead, it's an invitation to broaden your definition of a woman you'd date. Maybe in your mind you always picture dating a tall, slender redhead. But here is a short brunette who is pretty cute and actually a better personality match. Date her. It's very easy to get set in your mind who you ask out and who you don't. If I were the type of guy who asked people out in a bar (I'm not), at the time I probably wouldn't have approached my current fiancee in a bar simply because, and this is really stupid, she didn't match the image I had in my mind of the woman I wanted to date. So thank goodness we met online, where I was able to gather a lot more factors ... including the fact that we were extremely compatible.
Women are going to be shocked at the "5 is a low number" because even though it is the 21st century, men are still the ones who ask out. A woman is a lot less likely to remember a simple "No" than the guy is going to remember the agony of gathering up the courage to approach her only to be brushed away. 5 is really low. Even guys who aren't desperate might routinely ask out 2-3 women in a bar in a single night.
I'd recommend combining "more" with "smarter". Online dating is great because you can recreate the opening scene -- approaching the girl, finding out a little bit about her -- without actually having to do so in real life. You can't tell just by looking whether or not you're going to like someone, so an online profile is far better for this purpose.
A good goal would be to contact somewhere between 15-20 of your matches on OkCupid (because why would you use any other dating site?!?). Actually, it might be good to try to seek out partners who are similarly inexperienced, so that they might relate or understand your perspective. Keep the messages light. Sometimes you can start out by simply asking them more about themselves: if one of the photos they're in is interesting, ask them about it. If they've traveled to a far off country, ask them about their experiences. And so on.
Finally, it's not so much about desperation or not caring as it is finding fulflilment and wholeness in yourself. I know that sounds like crap right now, but you have to find something that makes you feel...full. Hunger is a huge turn-off in men.
posted by Deathalicious at 11:18 PM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
I will give you this hundred dollar bill if you tell me why. It was my date budget but now it's my 'What's Wrong With Me?' budget.
Okay, no.
It's hard enough nailing down the current problems. I can't imagine how hard it would be to overcome the role of "that creepy guy who gives you $100 to not date him."
posted by rokusan at 3:15 AM on July 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
Okay, no.
It's hard enough nailing down the current problems. I can't imagine how hard it would be to overcome the role of "that creepy guy who gives you $100 to not date him."
posted by rokusan at 3:15 AM on July 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
I will give you this hundred dollar bill if you tell me why. It was my date budget but now it's my 'What's Wrong With Me?' budget.
This is only a marginally acceptable idea if the OP lives in a HUGE city where no one ever talks to each other, and if he moves to another huge city every few months. Otherwise this is a very speedy way to become a social pariah.
If my last answer has any truth to it, to overcome the gay vibe I'd ask your friends about specific women. "Karen seems really interesting - I'd really love to take her out sometime." Don't throw out general lines like "Do you know anyone you could set me up with?" If you meet new friends, frankly I'd lie and refer vaguely to past dates with women (but don't lie about a relationship that didn't exist). Don't advertise your virginity. Don't overcompensate and comment on every attractive woman you see (i.e. don't try to PROVE your heterosexuality, it's very annoying and will cement the idea that you're actually gay). On the other hand, if you've got a metrosexual look* to you, tone it down a bit. Cool it with the hair products, wear scruffier clothes once in awhile, don't shave on the weekends.
*Yes I know this is not specifically a "gay look" - some of my best friends blah blah blah. I'm talking about other people's perceptions here.
posted by desjardins at 7:07 AM on July 9, 2009
This is only a marginally acceptable idea if the OP lives in a HUGE city where no one ever talks to each other, and if he moves to another huge city every few months. Otherwise this is a very speedy way to become a social pariah.
If my last answer has any truth to it, to overcome the gay vibe I'd ask your friends about specific women. "Karen seems really interesting - I'd really love to take her out sometime." Don't throw out general lines like "Do you know anyone you could set me up with?" If you meet new friends, frankly I'd lie and refer vaguely to past dates with women (but don't lie about a relationship that didn't exist). Don't advertise your virginity. Don't overcompensate and comment on every attractive woman you see (i.e. don't try to PROVE your heterosexuality, it's very annoying and will cement the idea that you're actually gay). On the other hand, if you've got a metrosexual look* to you, tone it down a bit. Cool it with the hair products, wear scruffier clothes once in awhile, don't shave on the weekends.
*Yes I know this is not specifically a "gay look" - some of my best friends blah blah blah. I'm talking about other people's perceptions here.
posted by desjardins at 7:07 AM on July 9, 2009
A good goal would be to contact somewhere between 15-20 of your matches on OkCupid. This is good advice, but if you're new to online dating, I'd warn you not to expect a high success rate: I think I got 2 dates from emailing roughly 20 people. I don't say this to discourage you---in fact I'd very much encourage this---but I'm saying that you shouldn't get discouraged by online dating if you don't get a date at first.
posted by sesquipedalian at 12:24 PM on July 9, 2009
posted by sesquipedalian at 12:24 PM on July 9, 2009
Really, your friends can think of NOTHING that you might improve?
This makes me think it's one of two things: either you're intimidating, and they're afraid to tell you, or you don't have any close friends. If it's the first thing, well, there's your answer.
posted by desjardins at 1:50 PM on July 9, 2009
This makes me think it's one of two things: either you're intimidating, and they're afraid to tell you, or you don't have any close friends. If it's the first thing, well, there's your answer.
posted by desjardins at 1:50 PM on July 9, 2009
I think it's that he's TOO sensitive. Too sensitive can be off-putting.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 9:00 PM on July 9, 2009
posted by SkylitDrawl at 9:00 PM on July 9, 2009
Sorry if this was asked, I haven't read all the responses, but: Have you tried asking one of your friends to set you up? Getting fixed up rarely works out, but in the short term it would at least get you some dating experience.
posted by crickets at 6:01 AM on July 10, 2009
posted by crickets at 6:01 AM on July 10, 2009
The Game - Neil Strauss (as stated above)
Get a bit silly and story is all over the place - but the premise stands true:
-Make yourself look as good as possible (good clothes/shoes/haircut, exercise, hygiene)
-Feel good about yourself (todo with making yourself look good)
-act confident (comes from the 2 points above)
-start talking to girls (the book is all about 'tricks' to get girls talking to you - the trick is that it is actually a 'trick' in that it makes YOU go up and start a conversation with a girl)
-don't care (or don't take it personally) if she does not go out with you - the world is full of girls who will!
Most of all - have FUN while trying
posted by lamby at 9:07 AM on July 10, 2009
Get a bit silly and story is all over the place - but the premise stands true:
-Make yourself look as good as possible (good clothes/shoes/haircut, exercise, hygiene)
-Feel good about yourself (todo with making yourself look good)
-act confident (comes from the 2 points above)
-start talking to girls (the book is all about 'tricks' to get girls talking to you - the trick is that it is actually a 'trick' in that it makes YOU go up and start a conversation with a girl)
-don't care (or don't take it personally) if she does not go out with you - the world is full of girls who will!
Most of all - have FUN while trying
posted by lamby at 9:07 AM on July 10, 2009
I think SkyLitDrawl and others re: desperation and "a girl oh god just any girl please A GIRL" vibes are spot on, but I'm commenting to chime in mostly about some of the "something is seriously wrong if you're that old with no experience" remarks. I don't agree. Relationships are kind of weird, and in my limited experience one's attractiveness versus actual experience/ease in finding the right person is a cruel, random crapshoot. Some of the biggest trainwrecks I've ever met--with drug and money issues, bad hygiene, self-absorbed crappy personality flaws, serious social drama, and severe emotional and mental afflictions and neuroses--have dated hundreds of people. I wish I was exaggerating. The guy I'm marrying this year had terrible luck similar to yours all through his youth into nearly his 30s, and from the moment I met him and was just his friend and roommate I was confused by this because he was always handsome, dependable, emotionally mature, funny, interesting, independent/financially secure, and kind. He didn't even have that desperate aura clinging to him or anything; he'd long since stopped caring and was quite the master of living a full, enriching life without dwelling or waiting for a girl to come fulfill it. He even joked about identifying with the term "quirkyalone." He was comfortable in his skin. I spent years wondering why the hell noone had snatched him up, yet all of his friends--who in my humble opinion were way less catches in every way imaginable--had always had girlfriends as if given (and not because they were more assertive about it either; partners just fell in their laps). I never figured it out, and to this day I don't have any explanation except timing and social stuff is a bitch and a luck of the draw partly.
Sure there's things you can do to make yourself ready for when the chance does arrive, but that chance is completely freaking random, almost Run Lola Run-level comically, cruelly so. When I was newly single I snatched him up and that was that. We're both lucky now.
That was a long-winded way of saying some of the advice here is pretty helpful and great, but if you're really asking "what's wrong with me?" keep in mind there's a pretty high chance the answer is "nothing." It sucks in its arbitrariness, but there you go. When you do stumble upon someone though, don't worry about your past. I love being the one who saw all the great in my guy; I'm irrationally proud of myself for having a good eye for someone wonderful. You'll see.
posted by ifjuly at 1:49 PM on July 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sure there's things you can do to make yourself ready for when the chance does arrive, but that chance is completely freaking random, almost Run Lola Run-level comically, cruelly so. When I was newly single I snatched him up and that was that. We're both lucky now.
That was a long-winded way of saying some of the advice here is pretty helpful and great, but if you're really asking "what's wrong with me?" keep in mind there's a pretty high chance the answer is "nothing." It sucks in its arbitrariness, but there you go. When you do stumble upon someone though, don't worry about your past. I love being the one who saw all the great in my guy; I'm irrationally proud of myself for having a good eye for someone wonderful. You'll see.
posted by ifjuly at 1:49 PM on July 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by turgid dahlia at 9:40 PM on July 7, 2009 [13 favorites]