I think I don’t like or trust my partner sexually any more.
May 18, 2009 1:05 PM Subscribe
I think I don’t like or trust my partner sexually any more. Has anyone ever been in a similar situation? How did you manage? Long account under cut.
Mid 20s, female in heterosexual relationship for five years. First couple of years, things were going great. Lots of things in common, similar thinking, intellectually compatible, even same sort of taste in food, and we were both physically attracted to each other. Lots of fun doing activities together.
We became intimate a year after we started dating. A bit of awkward fumbling initially -- I am his first, too -- but we managed, and things were pretty rosy initially. About a year later, I started to feel dissatisfied. He’d be really enthusiastic, whereas I would feel bored. Things also started to happen, such as in the middle of things he’d switch to another position, but it was really uncomfortable for me. I’d stop him, but he’d say it feels really good for him, and he’d keep trying it again subsequently, even though I repeatedly told him that I didn’t enjoy it, he said he forgot because he was too excited. Those incidents left me feeling used.
To overcome my boredom, I tried initiating things that I was interested in, but he’d try that for a few minutes and say that he didn’t feel good, or it was more physically demanding and he got tired, and we always ended up going back to the routine he prefers. I am completely insistent on safe sex, and a couple of times he tried to penetrate me without a condom, and that upset me, I put a halt on things. Our relationship was also cooling down from the initial head-over-heels part, we were both busy, so we didn’t have sex that often.
One evening he came over, we spent time together as usual, then I wanted to go to bed as I was tired. He wanted to cuddle so I let him; what I didn’t expect was for him to initiate sex even though I made it clear I just wanted to sleep. I stopped him, he sort of clung on, I felt coerced, he didn’t go all the way and left shortly after. The incident left me feeling violated and used, I just felt like a line had been crossed, and I broke down afterwards, alone. I didn’t know how to articulate why or how I felt, and didn’t confront him or talk to him about it.
That was last year; we were also both very busy, and when we weren’t I found myself planning activities, and avoiding being in situations where we might end up in bed alone together. I stopped having sex with him almost completely, although I did not have a diminished sex drive. I did consider breaking up, however, he’d always been caring, supportive, gentle and stable in other aspects of the relationship, we still enjoyed each other’s company, so I stayed with him.
Recently, a friend asked me if I would consider marrying my current BF, and I realized that I no longer felt sure about a long term relationship or future with him. I think I’ve lost interest in him sexually -- sex is important to me, but I don’t want to do it with him. I like him, but now I’m not sure if I think of him as a romantic partner or a very very close best friend.
I should mention that all the while in the background of these five years I’ve also been having identity upheavals and changes; recently, I decided to come out as bisexual, after having repressed it since my early teens. I found myself yearning to be able to discuss this coming out with him, but I realized that I no longer feel emotionally close enough to have such a conversation.
I don’t know what to do now. I like him, but I think because of past behavior I don’t trust him as a sexual partner any more, and that diminished my feelings of attraction to him. I don’t want to break up, but at the same time I find myself wanting out, just so that I could go back to dating other people again.
He’s completely not into open relationships at all or taking time-outs, so that is out of the question. It’s either monogamy or nothing. The logical solution is to talk to him about it, but I don’t know how to even start -- “I’ve been avoiding sleeping with you for a whole year because I felt violated?” I’m planning to see a therapist. But I also want to hear the hive mind’s thoughts.
Mid 20s, female in heterosexual relationship for five years. First couple of years, things were going great. Lots of things in common, similar thinking, intellectually compatible, even same sort of taste in food, and we were both physically attracted to each other. Lots of fun doing activities together.
We became intimate a year after we started dating. A bit of awkward fumbling initially -- I am his first, too -- but we managed, and things were pretty rosy initially. About a year later, I started to feel dissatisfied. He’d be really enthusiastic, whereas I would feel bored. Things also started to happen, such as in the middle of things he’d switch to another position, but it was really uncomfortable for me. I’d stop him, but he’d say it feels really good for him, and he’d keep trying it again subsequently, even though I repeatedly told him that I didn’t enjoy it, he said he forgot because he was too excited. Those incidents left me feeling used.
To overcome my boredom, I tried initiating things that I was interested in, but he’d try that for a few minutes and say that he didn’t feel good, or it was more physically demanding and he got tired, and we always ended up going back to the routine he prefers. I am completely insistent on safe sex, and a couple of times he tried to penetrate me without a condom, and that upset me, I put a halt on things. Our relationship was also cooling down from the initial head-over-heels part, we were both busy, so we didn’t have sex that often.
One evening he came over, we spent time together as usual, then I wanted to go to bed as I was tired. He wanted to cuddle so I let him; what I didn’t expect was for him to initiate sex even though I made it clear I just wanted to sleep. I stopped him, he sort of clung on, I felt coerced, he didn’t go all the way and left shortly after. The incident left me feeling violated and used, I just felt like a line had been crossed, and I broke down afterwards, alone. I didn’t know how to articulate why or how I felt, and didn’t confront him or talk to him about it.
That was last year; we were also both very busy, and when we weren’t I found myself planning activities, and avoiding being in situations where we might end up in bed alone together. I stopped having sex with him almost completely, although I did not have a diminished sex drive. I did consider breaking up, however, he’d always been caring, supportive, gentle and stable in other aspects of the relationship, we still enjoyed each other’s company, so I stayed with him.
Recently, a friend asked me if I would consider marrying my current BF, and I realized that I no longer felt sure about a long term relationship or future with him. I think I’ve lost interest in him sexually -- sex is important to me, but I don’t want to do it with him. I like him, but now I’m not sure if I think of him as a romantic partner or a very very close best friend.
I should mention that all the while in the background of these five years I’ve also been having identity upheavals and changes; recently, I decided to come out as bisexual, after having repressed it since my early teens. I found myself yearning to be able to discuss this coming out with him, but I realized that I no longer feel emotionally close enough to have such a conversation.
I don’t know what to do now. I like him, but I think because of past behavior I don’t trust him as a sexual partner any more, and that diminished my feelings of attraction to him. I don’t want to break up, but at the same time I find myself wanting out, just so that I could go back to dating other people again.
He’s completely not into open relationships at all or taking time-outs, so that is out of the question. It’s either monogamy or nothing. The logical solution is to talk to him about it, but I don’t know how to even start -- “I’ve been avoiding sleeping with you for a whole year because I felt violated?” I’m planning to see a therapist. But I also want to hear the hive mind’s thoughts.
You know the answer. It's time to move on. DTMFA.
posted by gnutron at 1:10 PM on May 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by gnutron at 1:10 PM on May 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
It sounds like the two of you are sexually incompatible. Actually, he might be sexually incompatible with everyone, given his selfish disinterest in his partner's feelings. Whether or not you're bisexual, regardless of how nice he is outside of the bedroom, you're not enjoying the intimacy that makes your relationship more than a friendship. I think it's time to move on.
posted by katillathehun at 1:10 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by katillathehun at 1:10 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is an account of a relationship dynamic that sounds similar to yours. You may be interested in reading it: A different kind of rape
posted by wyzewoman at 1:11 PM on May 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by wyzewoman at 1:11 PM on May 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
I think because of past behavior I don’t trust him as a sexual partner any more
Don't count on this changing any time soon. Bail.
posted by Skot at 1:12 PM on May 18, 2009
Don't count on this changing any time soon. Bail.
posted by Skot at 1:12 PM on May 18, 2009
He's caring, supportive, gentle, and stable, except for the fact that on multiple occasions he's acted in ways that indicate a disrespect for your choices and preferences, and have left you feeling violated and used. This is not a healthy thing that needs to be preserved and nurtured. He's been, on multiple instances, a selfish jackass. DTMFA.
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:13 PM on May 18, 2009
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:13 PM on May 18, 2009
This is a rare case where I think the OP doesn't actually need a therapist. OP, you're just over him, and that's ok.
He sounds selfish and aside from that you two sound incompatible sexually.
Go experiment with other people who attract you and are nice to you and don't pressure you.
posted by rmless at 1:19 PM on May 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
He sounds selfish and aside from that you two sound incompatible sexually.
Go experiment with other people who attract you and are nice to you and don't pressure you.
posted by rmless at 1:19 PM on May 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
Sometimes when you're in a relationship for so long, it's possible to become invested in the sheer length of time you've spent together and not in the person themselves. It's hard to admit that you have been with someone for 5 years whom you no longer trust/like but it would be even harder to admit it another 5 years from now.
You're unhappy. Chances are, he's unhappy. It doesn't sound like you belong together, from your description.
posted by cranberrymonger at 1:20 PM on May 18, 2009 [8 favorites]
You're unhappy. Chances are, he's unhappy. It doesn't sound like you belong together, from your description.
posted by cranberrymonger at 1:20 PM on May 18, 2009 [8 favorites]
I don't think your bisexuality has any relation to the present issue. Most likely, you want a partner who is interested in having sex on your schedule, which won't happen, but perhaps you can find a partner with a more chilled libido who understands there is more to life than sex in a relationship.
posted by parmanparman at 1:31 PM on May 18, 2009
posted by parmanparman at 1:31 PM on May 18, 2009
Sounds to me like this relationship is over - and it sounds like you know it is over, you just can't admit it. The trust is gone, the intimacy is gone - the relationship is just a shell. Don't over think it.
Just hop on the bus, Gus. Make a new plan, Stan. No need to be coy, Roy.
posted by Flood at 1:33 PM on May 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
Just hop on the bus, Gus. Make a new plan, Stan. No need to be coy, Roy.
posted by Flood at 1:33 PM on May 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
It's often the case with relationship questions in Ask, but I have never more clearly gotten the feeling that the person asking knows EXACTLY what the answer is.
If you need permission, here it is: end the relationship.
I think the actions you describe him having taken sound crappy, but it doesn't matter. Your sexuality doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that it's not working for you, you aren't attracted to him, and you don't see a committed future in the relationship. That's the only reason you need.
Move on.
posted by phearlez at 1:34 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you need permission, here it is: end the relationship.
I think the actions you describe him having taken sound crappy, but it doesn't matter. Your sexuality doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that it's not working for you, you aren't attracted to him, and you don't see a committed future in the relationship. That's the only reason you need.
Move on.
posted by phearlez at 1:34 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am completely insistent on safe sex, and a couple of times he tried to penetrate me without a condom, and that upset me, I put a halt on things.I stopped him, he sort of clung on, I felt coerced, he didn’t go all the way and left shortly after.r. The incident left me feeling violated and used, I just felt like a line had been crossed, and I broke down afterwards, alone.
Reread, and act accordingly. (this kind of thing is NO FUN)
He’s completely not into open relationships at all or taking time-outs, so that is out of the question. It’s either monogamy or nothing. //// Sometimes when you're in a relationship for so long, it's possible to become invested in the sheer length of time you've spent together and not in the person themselves.
Seconding this. Sounds like you need to get out and date other people.
It's fun! You'll feel a lot better after you do it for a bit, I promise.
"Time outs" are a bad idea. If you break up, and then want to get back together (and work out your sexual issues in a more mutually productive way) - awesome! And if not -- well, you both KNEW you weren't taking a time out anyway.
But yeah - dating is fun, and not nearly as scary as it (probably) sounds.
after five years -- yeah man, it's time.
posted by puckish at 1:43 PM on May 18, 2009
Reread, and act accordingly. (this kind of thing is NO FUN)
He’s completely not into open relationships at all or taking time-outs, so that is out of the question. It’s either monogamy or nothing. //// Sometimes when you're in a relationship for so long, it's possible to become invested in the sheer length of time you've spent together and not in the person themselves.
Seconding this. Sounds like you need to get out and date other people.
It's fun! You'll feel a lot better after you do it for a bit, I promise.
"Time outs" are a bad idea. If you break up, and then want to get back together (and work out your sexual issues in a more mutually productive way) - awesome! And if not -- well, you both KNEW you weren't taking a time out anyway.
But yeah - dating is fun, and not nearly as scary as it (probably) sounds.
after five years -- yeah man, it's time.
posted by puckish at 1:43 PM on May 18, 2009
I don't know why you would consider staying with this person. If you plan on seeking therapy, this is the issue I would discuss - why you feel that it's wrong to break up with someone that
a) You no longer feel safe around, and thus are deprived of physical companionship, and
b) You no longer feel emotionally connected to, and thus are deprived of emotional companionship.
posted by muddgirl at 1:44 PM on May 18, 2009
a) You no longer feel safe around, and thus are deprived of physical companionship, and
b) You no longer feel emotionally connected to, and thus are deprived of emotional companionship.
posted by muddgirl at 1:44 PM on May 18, 2009
In addition to what others are saying: these situations where you feel coerced, objectified, and uncared for- can cause lasting damage to your psyche and interfere with future intimate relationships.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 1:52 PM on May 18, 2009
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 1:52 PM on May 18, 2009
anonymous: I think I’ve lost interest in him sexually -- sex is important to me, but I don’t want to do it with him. I like him, but now I’m not sure if I think of him as a romantic partner or a very very close best friend.
There's an important distinction here that I believe you're missing; I've seen people do this before. You're turning this into an issue about your attraction to him; I believe we do this often because we are today somewhat obsessed with attraction and with the fetishization of the "sex drive." You are an intelligent person with some clarity about your situation; I only want to note that I think that you haven't "lost interest in him sexually," precisely--for several reasons.
First of all, this is not centrally a sexual issue. People have sex because it is enjoyable; it is part of the bond lovers share, but it's essential to understand that the core of it, our very beings and their interaction, shouldn't be confused with the sexual act. Putting it plainly: there are women (and men) who can have sex, even enjoyable sex, with people they don't trust or even don't like; you can't, but maybe you could learn to... but removing your inability to have sex with him wouldn't remove the feelings you're feeling. The sexual dimension, as is often the case, is less the problem itself than a symptom of the problem. I mention this chiefly because when you explain yourself to him this will be the first thing he'll misunderstand, so you have to be clear: this isn't a situation where your sex drive has played the silly trick of slipping away when it comes to him; to be honest, the human libido is a strange and shifting thing, and it's tempting for the partner in his position to believe that this is something chemical that will pass. It's not. It has to do with the bond you share with him--which, be it as it may the core of your sexuality, is not inherently related to the sexual act itself. In other words, you can tell him: it's not about the sex. It's about us.
Second, this is about your inability to trust him after what happened. It's about how that event made you feel, and about the fact that that's never really been confronted. You see clearly the situation: you want to be with someone you can trust; and you don't want to be with, you don't even really want to be close friends with, someone you can't trust. You feel as though someone who would do what he did, even just one time, is not someone you can trust.
And you haven't talked with him about this because you know it; because you know he'll promise that you can trust him, he'll tell you that he'll never do it again, he'll tell you that he'll be very, very good to you and that you can both work on your relationship and that you'll both be okay if you just stick together. You know that it will be nice to hear this from him, and you know that you'll be sorely tempted to assent and stay with him. But you also know that, no matter what he says, you don't want to be with someone who does that to you even just once; so you'll have to tell him no.
I know it's difficult, but you have to tell him. Know well that it doesn't matter that this was "just a single, isolated incident;" it doesn't matter if he "will never do it again." You feel deeply that you can't be with him; and nothing he says can really change that.
Good luck.
posted by koeselitz at 1:56 PM on May 18, 2009 [7 favorites]
There's an important distinction here that I believe you're missing; I've seen people do this before. You're turning this into an issue about your attraction to him; I believe we do this often because we are today somewhat obsessed with attraction and with the fetishization of the "sex drive." You are an intelligent person with some clarity about your situation; I only want to note that I think that you haven't "lost interest in him sexually," precisely--for several reasons.
First of all, this is not centrally a sexual issue. People have sex because it is enjoyable; it is part of the bond lovers share, but it's essential to understand that the core of it, our very beings and their interaction, shouldn't be confused with the sexual act. Putting it plainly: there are women (and men) who can have sex, even enjoyable sex, with people they don't trust or even don't like; you can't, but maybe you could learn to... but removing your inability to have sex with him wouldn't remove the feelings you're feeling. The sexual dimension, as is often the case, is less the problem itself than a symptom of the problem. I mention this chiefly because when you explain yourself to him this will be the first thing he'll misunderstand, so you have to be clear: this isn't a situation where your sex drive has played the silly trick of slipping away when it comes to him; to be honest, the human libido is a strange and shifting thing, and it's tempting for the partner in his position to believe that this is something chemical that will pass. It's not. It has to do with the bond you share with him--which, be it as it may the core of your sexuality, is not inherently related to the sexual act itself. In other words, you can tell him: it's not about the sex. It's about us.
Second, this is about your inability to trust him after what happened. It's about how that event made you feel, and about the fact that that's never really been confronted. You see clearly the situation: you want to be with someone you can trust; and you don't want to be with, you don't even really want to be close friends with, someone you can't trust. You feel as though someone who would do what he did, even just one time, is not someone you can trust.
And you haven't talked with him about this because you know it; because you know he'll promise that you can trust him, he'll tell you that he'll never do it again, he'll tell you that he'll be very, very good to you and that you can both work on your relationship and that you'll both be okay if you just stick together. You know that it will be nice to hear this from him, and you know that you'll be sorely tempted to assent and stay with him. But you also know that, no matter what he says, you don't want to be with someone who does that to you even just once; so you'll have to tell him no.
I know it's difficult, but you have to tell him. Know well that it doesn't matter that this was "just a single, isolated incident;" it doesn't matter if he "will never do it again." You feel deeply that you can't be with him; and nothing he says can really change that.
Good luck.
posted by koeselitz at 1:56 PM on May 18, 2009 [7 favorites]
I decided to come out as bisexual, after having repressed it since my early teens.
Time to move on for both your sakes.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:09 PM on May 18, 2009
Time to move on for both your sakes.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:09 PM on May 18, 2009
Broken things can be fixed. Dead things do not come back to life. I'm pretty confident this relationship is in the latter category. Sorry.
posted by jon1270 at 2:13 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jon1270 at 2:13 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
1. You don't see a future with this guy.
2. He's creeped you out with his sexual behavior and you don't trust him.
3. You have some issues with your sexuality that you'd like to explore.
4. You're in your mid-twenties.
I have a feeling there's some subtext to this in that you may have some issues to work out on your own. You need to be able to confront your issues and resolve them. You need to really be able to identify your boundaries and speak up for them, forcefully and with conviction. And you need to trust that you deserve a partner who is open, honest, respectful and who wants to make you very happy. But, this guy doesn't sound like the guy. And you don't sound like you want to go down this path with the guy. Which is totally fine.
So, I echo the others: Move on.
You know what's so awesome? The day after you break up with this guy you are going to be much smarter and much freer to explore the kind of romantic and sexual life that YOU want to have. Enjoy that freedom and don't stay tied down to this guy.
posted by amanda at 2:15 PM on May 18, 2009
2. He's creeped you out with his sexual behavior and you don't trust him.
3. You have some issues with your sexuality that you'd like to explore.
4. You're in your mid-twenties.
I have a feeling there's some subtext to this in that you may have some issues to work out on your own. You need to be able to confront your issues and resolve them. You need to really be able to identify your boundaries and speak up for them, forcefully and with conviction. And you need to trust that you deserve a partner who is open, honest, respectful and who wants to make you very happy. But, this guy doesn't sound like the guy. And you don't sound like you want to go down this path with the guy. Which is totally fine.
So, I echo the others: Move on.
You know what's so awesome? The day after you break up with this guy you are going to be much smarter and much freer to explore the kind of romantic and sexual life that YOU want to have. Enjoy that freedom and don't stay tied down to this guy.
posted by amanda at 2:15 PM on May 18, 2009
Oh, and by "issues" I don't mean bisexuality. I sense a deeper uncomfortableness with sex. Everyone moves at their own pace with this stuff so I think it would be good for you to step out of this relationship so that you can assess it on your own time in your own space.
posted by amanda at 2:19 PM on May 18, 2009
posted by amanda at 2:19 PM on May 18, 2009
I'll just join the chorus here.
Break it off. Don't let him guilt trip you into keeping him around. If he says you can't ever have him back, or reminds you that it's all or nothing during the process, then say "great, then it's easy - you get nothing". Ignore any other manipulative bull he might throw at you. You deserve someone you can trust and for whom you can have an enduring desire.
posted by lorrer at 2:25 PM on May 18, 2009
Break it off. Don't let him guilt trip you into keeping him around. If he says you can't ever have him back, or reminds you that it's all or nothing during the process, then say "great, then it's easy - you get nothing". Ignore any other manipulative bull he might throw at you. You deserve someone you can trust and for whom you can have an enduring desire.
posted by lorrer at 2:25 PM on May 18, 2009
Mid 20s, female in heterosexual relationship for five years.
We became intimate a year after we started dating.
I’ve been avoiding sleeping with you for a whole year...
I'm sure he knows it's over.
It sounds like there is little communication between you two about sex:
- Waited one year for sex.
- Sex for next 3 years, but without good communication: Him excited/you bored; or you excited/him bored.
- No sex for the past year, but no communication about it, either.
Regardless of who is right or wrong in this relationship, and regardless of what you choose to do about the relationship, I recommend that you start communicating with your sexual partners and insist they do the same.
posted by Houstonian at 2:26 PM on May 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
We became intimate a year after we started dating.
I’ve been avoiding sleeping with you for a whole year...
I'm sure he knows it's over.
It sounds like there is little communication between you two about sex:
- Waited one year for sex.
- Sex for next 3 years, but without good communication: Him excited/you bored; or you excited/him bored.
- No sex for the past year, but no communication about it, either.
Regardless of who is right or wrong in this relationship, and regardless of what you choose to do about the relationship, I recommend that you start communicating with your sexual partners and insist they do the same.
posted by Houstonian at 2:26 PM on May 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
It sounds like you're trying to understand the meaning of this incident (in which you were coerced) within the context of your overall relationship.
It certainly may be that the relationship is over, but I wouldn't jump to that without the two of you *trying* to communicate about this traumatic incident. This clearly had a major effect on your feelings about him (as well it should) -- I can imagine it being really hard to trust someone who did that to me.
Relationships are about trust and communication. This incident and your feelings about it are a huge elephant in the middle of the room, and I think you need to find a safe way to talk about it and let him know what he did and how it affected you.
I also notice how it sounds like the relationship is either his way or no way at all. This is a significant power differential. Communicating about the feeling of being violated is hard under any circumstances - it would be much more difficult when his voice has so much power.
You might want to consider having a few sessions with a couple's therapist to help you feel safe when you talk about this. You also might well benefit from an individual therapist to help you understand more your history and how it interacts with this particular relationship.
posted by jasper411 at 3:15 PM on May 18, 2009
It certainly may be that the relationship is over, but I wouldn't jump to that without the two of you *trying* to communicate about this traumatic incident. This clearly had a major effect on your feelings about him (as well it should) -- I can imagine it being really hard to trust someone who did that to me.
Relationships are about trust and communication. This incident and your feelings about it are a huge elephant in the middle of the room, and I think you need to find a safe way to talk about it and let him know what he did and how it affected you.
I also notice how it sounds like the relationship is either his way or no way at all. This is a significant power differential. Communicating about the feeling of being violated is hard under any circumstances - it would be much more difficult when his voice has so much power.
You might want to consider having a few sessions with a couple's therapist to help you feel safe when you talk about this. You also might well benefit from an individual therapist to help you understand more your history and how it interacts with this particular relationship.
posted by jasper411 at 3:15 PM on May 18, 2009
Like wyzewoman, it sounds to me like you've been raped. Gee, no bloody wonder you don't trust him and don't want to have sex with him! Any guy who KEEPS GOING after you've told him no is a colossal asshole.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:21 PM on May 18, 2009
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:21 PM on May 18, 2009
Sure, dump him, but recognize that you had a part in all this, too:
I didn’t know how to articulate why or how I felt, and didn’t confront him or talk to him about it.
There is generally some kind of implied consent after a time in relationships. Saying "I just want to cuddle" does not mean "don't touch me" and it's unfair to him that he crossed a boundary he didn't know about because he was feeling horny, and then you withheld sex without telling him where that boundary was. Yes, he sounds like a jerk anyway because he doesn't sound very interested in pleasing you and he wasn't careful about condoms, but honestly, you sound hard to please.
posted by slow graffiti at 3:33 PM on May 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
I didn’t know how to articulate why or how I felt, and didn’t confront him or talk to him about it.
There is generally some kind of implied consent after a time in relationships. Saying "I just want to cuddle" does not mean "don't touch me" and it's unfair to him that he crossed a boundary he didn't know about because he was feeling horny, and then you withheld sex without telling him where that boundary was. Yes, he sounds like a jerk anyway because he doesn't sound very interested in pleasing you and he wasn't careful about condoms, but honestly, you sound hard to please.
posted by slow graffiti at 3:33 PM on May 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
Your age is irrelevant, as is the bisexuality issue. This is not a situation where you should consider "settling," no matter how long you've been together. There are good people out there. Trust yourself and get out.
posted by Morrigan at 3:36 PM on May 18, 2009
posted by Morrigan at 3:36 PM on May 18, 2009
I think your lack of sexual interest is your mind and body letting you know that the relationship should end. As described, it doesn't sound like much fun.
posted by theora55 at 3:47 PM on May 18, 2009
posted by theora55 at 3:47 PM on May 18, 2009
slow graffiti: There is generally some kind of implied consent after a time in relationships. Saying "I just want to cuddle" does not mean "don't touch me" and it's unfair to him that he crossed a boundary he didn't know about because he was feeling horny, and then you withheld sex without telling him where that boundary was. Yes, he sounds like a jerk anyway because he doesn't sound very interested in pleasing you and he wasn't careful about condoms, but honestly, you sound hard to please.
Geez! Wanting your partner to care as much about your own pleasure as his or her own, does not make one hard to please. It makes one human, in a relationship, as equals. Seriously.
If someone says they want to cuddle, it means they want to cuddle. Sure that doesn't mean "don't touch me" but it also doesn't mean "try to fuck me."
There is never implied consent. EVER. EVER. Not even if you've been married 50 years. No one is ever under any obligation to "put out." And this is coming from someone who loves a roll in the hay. I love it, cause I don't ever do it out of obligation or duty. I do it cause I want to. And if I don't, then I don't do it.
Sex is ALWAYS ten times more fun, and ten times less psychologically damaging when it is between TWO consenting (or more, hell, whatevs) partners.
Anonymous: I second everyone who said DTFMA. No one who loves and respects you would ever use you like that.
Besides, you have a kick-ass sex life waiting for you, out in the world, with a partner (somewhere! somewhere!) who listens to what you do enjoy and what you want.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 4:43 PM on May 18, 2009 [6 favorites]
Geez! Wanting your partner to care as much about your own pleasure as his or her own, does not make one hard to please. It makes one human, in a relationship, as equals. Seriously.
If someone says they want to cuddle, it means they want to cuddle. Sure that doesn't mean "don't touch me" but it also doesn't mean "try to fuck me."
There is never implied consent. EVER. EVER. Not even if you've been married 50 years. No one is ever under any obligation to "put out." And this is coming from someone who loves a roll in the hay. I love it, cause I don't ever do it out of obligation or duty. I do it cause I want to. And if I don't, then I don't do it.
Sex is ALWAYS ten times more fun, and ten times less psychologically damaging when it is between TWO consenting (or more, hell, whatevs) partners.
Anonymous: I second everyone who said DTFMA. No one who loves and respects you would ever use you like that.
Besides, you have a kick-ass sex life waiting for you, out in the world, with a partner (somewhere! somewhere!) who listens to what you do enjoy and what you want.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 4:43 PM on May 18, 2009 [6 favorites]
There is never implied consent. EVER. EVER.
Please. Like you sign a release or even say "yes, let's have sex now" every time? That's just not the way it works in established relationships.
I did not say there is an obligation to have sex all the time. What I said is that consent is implied after a time, meaning each partner is allowed to approach the other for sex without asking verbal permission, and assume that making such advances is otherwise fine until they are explicitly turned down (baring situations where the other partner can't say no, obviously).
It wasn't the boyfriend's job to guess that "let's cuddle and go to sleep" meant "I will get angry if you try to initiate sex."
posted by slow graffiti at 5:17 PM on May 18, 2009 [5 favorites]
Please. Like you sign a release or even say "yes, let's have sex now" every time? That's just not the way it works in established relationships.
I did not say there is an obligation to have sex all the time. What I said is that consent is implied after a time, meaning each partner is allowed to approach the other for sex without asking verbal permission, and assume that making such advances is otherwise fine until they are explicitly turned down (baring situations where the other partner can't say no, obviously).
It wasn't the boyfriend's job to guess that "let's cuddle and go to sleep" meant "I will get angry if you try to initiate sex."
posted by slow graffiti at 5:17 PM on May 18, 2009 [5 favorites]
If you can't come out to him and be your honest sexual self with him after five years, OP, it's not a relationship. It's an awkward, painful, asexual friendship with someone who doesn't actually know you, share your interests, or care about knowing you or sharing your interests.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 5:34 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 5:34 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think you know you deserve better than him-- and the sex is always better if you truly love a person.
posted by faintly macabre at 5:49 PM on May 18, 2009
posted by faintly macabre at 5:49 PM on May 18, 2009
I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds really hard. I think a lot of your instincts sound right. You might try to think about what you would say to a friend if she came and told you that she doesn't want to have sex with her boyfriend and she doesn't really like him anymore and she doesn't want to tell him about the huge (exciting!) changes in her life... how would you react to her insistence that they stay together? Would you be happy for her if she told you she was finally breaking it off and exploring a new world? Be that friend to yourself. You deserve that friend.
The logical solution is to talk to him about it, but I don’t know how to even start -- “I’ve been avoiding sleeping with you for a whole year because I felt violated?” I’m planning to see a therapist. But I also want to hear the hive mind’s thoughts.
Yeah, the logical solution is to talk about him, and it is a hard discussion to start. There's a book that gets recommended on AskMe all the time called Difficult Conversations: How to discuss what matters most (read a bit online here) which you may find useful as you plan to broach the topic with him.
Other than that, I just want to say a few things:
1. It's normal to have changed a LOT over 5 years in your early 20s. Lots of couples find that they're not a great fit after that.
2. I'm really sorry about all the coercion and power grabs you've had to put up with around sex. Sex doesn't have to be that way. And good for you for not having sex with him for so long! I know that sounds kind of weird, but if you weren't yet able to break up with him but you didn't trust him to be a respectful sex partner, then good for you for putting up that boundary. Feel proud of protecting yourself!
3. Talking about these things is hard, but it's a skill you need to learn if you're going to have relationships built on trust. Part of trusting people is opening up to them and allowing them to be open and caring when you're vulnerable. And it's scary! Good god, it's scary. But when you find someone trustworthy, it's worth it.
4. DTMFA. Really. I mean, he believes in monogamy; you're not having sex with him. Let him find someone else. You feel uncomfortable and turned off and scared. Cut it off! Be single for a while! Find someone you can crush on girls with, someone you can relax in the bedroom with, someone you can talk to without feeling the need to limit what you tell him/her, without feeling disrespected or dismissed. Someone who respects you and is head over heels with you so much that they wouldn't even THINK of trying to skip condoms or continue doing something that hurts you.
Someone you can trust. Someone you can share yourself with. He's not that person. You know this. Courage! Take all that stubbornness you've been using to dodge sex for the last year, and funnel it towards improving both of your lives by finishing this thing.
posted by heatherann at 7:10 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
The logical solution is to talk to him about it, but I don’t know how to even start -- “I’ve been avoiding sleeping with you for a whole year because I felt violated?” I’m planning to see a therapist. But I also want to hear the hive mind’s thoughts.
Yeah, the logical solution is to talk about him, and it is a hard discussion to start. There's a book that gets recommended on AskMe all the time called Difficult Conversations: How to discuss what matters most (read a bit online here) which you may find useful as you plan to broach the topic with him.
Other than that, I just want to say a few things:
1. It's normal to have changed a LOT over 5 years in your early 20s. Lots of couples find that they're not a great fit after that.
2. I'm really sorry about all the coercion and power grabs you've had to put up with around sex. Sex doesn't have to be that way. And good for you for not having sex with him for so long! I know that sounds kind of weird, but if you weren't yet able to break up with him but you didn't trust him to be a respectful sex partner, then good for you for putting up that boundary. Feel proud of protecting yourself!
3. Talking about these things is hard, but it's a skill you need to learn if you're going to have relationships built on trust. Part of trusting people is opening up to them and allowing them to be open and caring when you're vulnerable. And it's scary! Good god, it's scary. But when you find someone trustworthy, it's worth it.
4. DTMFA. Really. I mean, he believes in monogamy; you're not having sex with him. Let him find someone else. You feel uncomfortable and turned off and scared. Cut it off! Be single for a while! Find someone you can crush on girls with, someone you can relax in the bedroom with, someone you can talk to without feeling the need to limit what you tell him/her, without feeling disrespected or dismissed. Someone who respects you and is head over heels with you so much that they wouldn't even THINK of trying to skip condoms or continue doing something that hurts you.
Someone you can trust. Someone you can share yourself with. He's not that person. You know this. Courage! Take all that stubbornness you've been using to dodge sex for the last year, and funnel it towards improving both of your lives by finishing this thing.
posted by heatherann at 7:10 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don’t know how to even start -- “I’ve been avoiding sleeping with you for a whole year because I felt violated?”
This would be a marvelous way to start. It expresses the problem very clearly, and how you feel about it.
As many others have said, if all you want is permission to DTMFA, please go ahead. But if you do want to talk with him, you've articulated the issues very well here. You're prepared to talk with him.
The conversation will most likely suck despite your preparation. It will be awkward and uncomfortable and filled with a lot of anger, most likely, but that's not necessarily a reason not to have it. Having it in front of a couples counselor might not be a bad idea if you're worried about keeping it productive.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:14 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
This would be a marvelous way to start. It expresses the problem very clearly, and how you feel about it.
As many others have said, if all you want is permission to DTMFA, please go ahead. But if you do want to talk with him, you've articulated the issues very well here. You're prepared to talk with him.
The conversation will most likely suck despite your preparation. It will be awkward and uncomfortable and filled with a lot of anger, most likely, but that's not necessarily a reason not to have it. Having it in front of a couples counselor might not be a bad idea if you're worried about keeping it productive.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:14 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yeah yeah yeah. What everyone else said. AND it sounds to me like you might have a few hang-ups about sex. Could it be that portraying his as a complete douche is your way of trying to mask this a bit? (Just asking . . .)
posted by Crotalus at 7:32 PM on May 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Crotalus at 7:32 PM on May 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Slow graffit: Please. Like you sign a release or even say "yes, let's have sex now" every time? That's just not the way it works in established relationships.
I did not say there is an obligation to have sex all the time. What I said is that consent is implied after a time, meaning each partner is allowed to approach the other for sex without asking verbal permission, and assume that making such advances is otherwise fine until they are explicitly turned down (baring situations where the other partner can't say no, obviously).
I am in an established relationship (quite married). And before I was married, I was in a 4.5 year long relationship. I seem to be defining consent differently than you, thinking that consent is the "yes-go-ahead-let's-do-this-part" (verbal or non-verbal) versus how you have defined it as the precursor (the approach) to the "yay-sexy-time."
Of course I don't sign a release (nor does anyone? do they? yikes!), but there is a "yes, let's go ahead", be it a certain look that my husband knows or an enthusiastic verbal response or an enthusiastic non-verbal grab here or there. If not, like if I say I'm too tired for whatever reason or I've had a really bad day and just want to cuddle for whatever reason, it wouldn't be kosher for him to try persistently for the sex. Most guys I have dated understood this too. In fact, I can't say I have ever dated a guy who didn't understand this (and once upon a time, before these long, established relationships, I dated quite a few guys).
It seems (at least according to Anonymous) that she made it clear to her boyfriend that she just wanted to sleep, and he kept trying for sex anyway. It sounds to me like Anonymous has explicitly turned him down, multiple times, or made it clear something didn't feel right, multiple times:
"I’d stop him, but he’d say it feels really good for him, and he’d keep trying it again subsequently, even though I repeatedly told him that I didn’t enjoy it..."
"...I made it clear I just wanted to sleep."
In my opinion, this makes boyfriend X sound like the difficult one, not Anonymous.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 8:32 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I did not say there is an obligation to have sex all the time. What I said is that consent is implied after a time, meaning each partner is allowed to approach the other for sex without asking verbal permission, and assume that making such advances is otherwise fine until they are explicitly turned down (baring situations where the other partner can't say no, obviously).
I am in an established relationship (quite married). And before I was married, I was in a 4.5 year long relationship. I seem to be defining consent differently than you, thinking that consent is the "yes-go-ahead-let's-do-this-part" (verbal or non-verbal) versus how you have defined it as the precursor (the approach) to the "yay-sexy-time."
Of course I don't sign a release (nor does anyone? do they? yikes!), but there is a "yes, let's go ahead", be it a certain look that my husband knows or an enthusiastic verbal response or an enthusiastic non-verbal grab here or there. If not, like if I say I'm too tired for whatever reason or I've had a really bad day and just want to cuddle for whatever reason, it wouldn't be kosher for him to try persistently for the sex. Most guys I have dated understood this too. In fact, I can't say I have ever dated a guy who didn't understand this (and once upon a time, before these long, established relationships, I dated quite a few guys).
It seems (at least according to Anonymous) that she made it clear to her boyfriend that she just wanted to sleep, and he kept trying for sex anyway. It sounds to me like Anonymous has explicitly turned him down, multiple times, or made it clear something didn't feel right, multiple times:
"I’d stop him, but he’d say it feels really good for him, and he’d keep trying it again subsequently, even though I repeatedly told him that I didn’t enjoy it..."
"...I made it clear I just wanted to sleep."
In my opinion, this makes boyfriend X sound like the difficult one, not Anonymous.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 8:32 PM on May 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Both the OP and the boyfriend need to get out of this relationship. I also think they each need to get laid... a lot... because both sound cold and/or repressed to me.
Sex in one position... after a year... and not when I am sleepy... ick.
Live a little.
posted by rokusan at 9:35 PM on May 18, 2009
Sex in one position... after a year... and not when I am sleepy... ick.
Live a little.
posted by rokusan at 9:35 PM on May 18, 2009
I absolutely disagree with the people saying this is "sexual incompatibility" or that the OP is "repressed" or that she has "hangups". It is sexual assault. It is a very subtle method of coercion, and it's no wonder you do not trust this person anymore. He has violated you and tried to make you feel like it's your fault.
But OP, this is not your fault. This is not because of anything you did. It is his fault, he tried repeatedly to force you to do things you repeatedly made clear you did not want. This is not a person who will help you grow or become the amazing, strong person you deserve to be. He is a person who misused your trust to sexually violate you.
posted by so_gracefully at 9:53 PM on May 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
But OP, this is not your fault. This is not because of anything you did. It is his fault, he tried repeatedly to force you to do things you repeatedly made clear you did not want. This is not a person who will help you grow or become the amazing, strong person you deserve to be. He is a person who misused your trust to sexually violate you.
posted by so_gracefully at 9:53 PM on May 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
He sounds kind of sexually selfish actually. He should be sufficiently interested in what pleases you, and to explore what gets you off, and to do it pretty much as often as you are doing the same for him.
Hopefully one day he will learn about boundaries, and sex being something you do *with* your partner, rather than just *to* them. But that's him. As for you, why not go find someone you think will enjoy being being a sexually fun partner in crime with you, rather than settling for someone who - through ignorance or lack of consideration - is possibly committing one against you? S/he's out there.....
posted by anitanita at 12:25 AM on May 19, 2009
Hopefully one day he will learn about boundaries, and sex being something you do *with* your partner, rather than just *to* them. But that's him. As for you, why not go find someone you think will enjoy being being a sexually fun partner in crime with you, rather than settling for someone who - through ignorance or lack of consideration - is possibly committing one against you? S/he's out there.....
posted by anitanita at 12:25 AM on May 19, 2009
you guys don't see eye to eye sexually. i'm more on the you guys don't communicate well (if at all) and you're tied to the length of the relationship more than you are to him.
he could have blatantly ignored your requests to stop moving cuddle time to sexy time or he could have misread you. only you and he know for sure - and you might disagree about that. getting into a he said she said helps no one.
what you know, and we know, and he probably knows - you're not happy (and i'd guess he isn't either) - you both deserve people you're happy with and excited to be around.
for those trying to paint him as a selfish lover that only cares for his pleasure - it seems like that shoe is on both of their feet.
compare these two statements, realize we only have one side of the story, and see how similar they sound to you:
"He’d be really enthusiastic, whereas I would feel bored. Things also started to happen, such as in the middle of things he’d switch to another position, but it was really uncomfortable for me. I’d stop him, but he’d say it feels really good for him, and he’d keep trying it again subsequently"
and
"To overcome my boredom, I tried initiating things that I was interested in, but he’d try that for a few minutes and say that he didn’t feel good, or it was more physically demanding and he got tired"
to my ears it seems like they both enjoy things the other one can't or won't provide.
time to move on, poster - and find your voice. either he's a colossal douchebag or you're not letting yourself be heard (or some combination of both). before you get involved with someone else learn to speak your mind clearly and without reservation. you deserve to find someone that makes you happy.
posted by nadawi at 2:03 AM on May 19, 2009
he could have blatantly ignored your requests to stop moving cuddle time to sexy time or he could have misread you. only you and he know for sure - and you might disagree about that. getting into a he said she said helps no one.
what you know, and we know, and he probably knows - you're not happy (and i'd guess he isn't either) - you both deserve people you're happy with and excited to be around.
for those trying to paint him as a selfish lover that only cares for his pleasure - it seems like that shoe is on both of their feet.
compare these two statements, realize we only have one side of the story, and see how similar they sound to you:
"He’d be really enthusiastic, whereas I would feel bored. Things also started to happen, such as in the middle of things he’d switch to another position, but it was really uncomfortable for me. I’d stop him, but he’d say it feels really good for him, and he’d keep trying it again subsequently"
and
"To overcome my boredom, I tried initiating things that I was interested in, but he’d try that for a few minutes and say that he didn’t feel good, or it was more physically demanding and he got tired"
to my ears it seems like they both enjoy things the other one can't or won't provide.
time to move on, poster - and find your voice. either he's a colossal douchebag or you're not letting yourself be heard (or some combination of both). before you get involved with someone else learn to speak your mind clearly and without reservation. you deserve to find someone that makes you happy.
posted by nadawi at 2:03 AM on May 19, 2009
The part of this story that jumps out to me is that you were his first sexual partner (I assume you mean intercourse). And I'll bet a foot-long from Subway that the only thing he knew about sex he learned from porn. Switching positions, uncomfortable positions, complete lack of interest in what a female wants/requests, etc... sounds like he's taking his cues from you know where. Now, that's not to say that most young people nowadays aren't in the same boat prior to their first sexual encounter...
As far as the implied consent issue is concerned...that is to say, one of the main issues you lack trust...how was your sex life when it was good? Did you ever initiate sex or was that his job? If it was the latter, as it is in some relationships, the initiator will likely miss a signal and just assume that it's their job to warm up the other party; otherwise, it becomes as slow graffiti said, a situation where explicit permission is the only way sex occurs.
Lastly, it has been repeated over an over in other threads, but men derive emotional comfort from sex, so in some ways, his persistence physically may have been his way to connect with you, albeit at the wrong time.
With all that said, your age, the overall situation (particularly the fact fact you are not married and have no kids) does not require you to labor through all of this. I just don't see the upside. I'm sure there are sexual things you'd like to experience/explore with both genders. Like Dennis Miller said (re: terrorists and the reward of 72 virgins in the afterllife), "Six or seven would be great, but after a while you'd want a pro."
posted by teg4rvn at 9:08 AM on May 19, 2009
As far as the implied consent issue is concerned...that is to say, one of the main issues you lack trust...how was your sex life when it was good? Did you ever initiate sex or was that his job? If it was the latter, as it is in some relationships, the initiator will likely miss a signal and just assume that it's their job to warm up the other party; otherwise, it becomes as slow graffiti said, a situation where explicit permission is the only way sex occurs.
Lastly, it has been repeated over an over in other threads, but men derive emotional comfort from sex, so in some ways, his persistence physically may have been his way to connect with you, albeit at the wrong time.
With all that said, your age, the overall situation (particularly the fact fact you are not married and have no kids) does not require you to labor through all of this. I just don't see the upside. I'm sure there are sexual things you'd like to experience/explore with both genders. Like Dennis Miller said (re: terrorists and the reward of 72 virgins in the afterllife), "Six or seven would be great, but after a while you'd want a pro."
posted by teg4rvn at 9:08 AM on May 19, 2009
It sounds like you aren't interested in dating your boyfriend at all. So maybe it's time to move on.
posted by chunking express at 11:20 AM on May 19, 2009
posted by chunking express at 11:20 AM on May 19, 2009
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posted by headspace at 1:09 PM on May 18, 2009 [5 favorites]