Neigh Bores

February 6, 2009 6:54 PM

Recently we received an email from our downstairs neighbours complaining about our kids' noise. I went all Ghandi on their arses, which kind of gave me the higher moral ground, but ...

... I really want to indulge the alternatives (in my mind). So, given the following parameters, what would you have done if you received this letter after your son's second birthday (2pm - 5pm on a Sunday):

The names have been changed to protect the innocent

"Strawberryviagra

I’m sorry I have to write this email, but I have tried to approach you previously Strawberryviagra and you walked away before I could finish (and I’m not the one to suffer in silence).

I have to say yesterday the noise was absolutely unbearable it was like living underneath a train station. It’s bad enough at the best of times (as I’m sure we have made that quite obvious) but when there are a number of kids (it sure can spoil your day).

Arsehole and I have asked on a few occasions if you could stop the kids from running/jumping/slamming doors in the house and discipline them accordingly so they are aware – I know I used to get stuck into SonArsehole as I was so concerned about other people in the unit. Yesterday YoungStrawberryviagra was spitting water at SonArsehole and then on my back door – it’s just not on. SonArsehole tells me it was YoungerStrawberryviagra's birthday so the kids were obviously very excited (was there a jumping castle in the lounge room?) – They were just out of control for a “unit environment” – fair enough if it’s a property/house where they can run wild.

We all have to live together and if there is anything that we are doing which is grating on your nerves, just let me know as I will try and accommodate you. I just want to be able to live a peaceful life and get on. If you could please let me know how you plan to tackle this critical situation?

I know I had a noisy party last weekend (and apologise if it caused you any grief) but I did show you the courtesy of an email warning you, the difference with that however is that it’s not on-going noise, nor were you underneath it."

Some other stuff:

- Neighbours chose the morning of Daylight Savings kicking in (when the clock gets turned back an hour) to complain about our kids getting up too early - and demanded that we put them in the attic in front of the TV each morning (that's what they're referring to when I walked away)
- Neighbour's partner smokes constantly outside our dining room window (we asked him not to when we eat, but he does anyway)
- Neighbour's partner boasted about beating up a previous tenant because they had a noise issue (we were on talking terms once).
- Neighbours voted for John Howard and admit to it. Sigh.
- Neighbours are climate change skeptics (they have their tumble dryer on right now and it's 40 C outside); xenophobes and homophobes.
- Our kids aren't perfect, but they're kids - we stop them as much as we can from running in the house, we never have parties (gotta love being parents) and we don't wear shoes and have carpet.

For the sake of the thread (and lest I bore you with more details), let's just assume they're utter arseholes and they actually eat orphaned babies.

Indulge me...

posted by strawberryviagra to Human Relations (30 answers total)

Is it possible that you really are noisy and need to pipe down?
posted by DieHipsterDie at 7:03 PM on February 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

What exactly is the question here? This seems more like you hate your neighbors and just want to vent.
posted by theroadahead at 7:06 PM on February 6, 2009 [3 favorites]

I'm not sure what points (4) and (5) have to do with being neighbors...
posted by sbutler at 7:08 PM on February 6, 2009

That other stuff doesn't seem relevant to the problem of trying to negotiate a peaceful coexistence for your family and your neighbors. Is that what the problem to be solved is? I might be a little unclear on that part.
posted by box at 7:09 PM on February 6, 2009

Personally I would have apologized for the loud party and promised to inform them in advance before the next one (with a note stuck to their door), nothing more. While it *is* your duty to make sure your kids aren't out of control (jumping off the bed once is acceptable, four times is not. Or running down the hall vs. running back and forth), they need to understand that they're in an apartment and there *will* be a fair amount of noise.


I know I had a noisy party last weekend (and apologise if it caused you any grief) but I did show you the courtesy of an email warning you, the difference with that however is that it’s not on-going noise, nor were you underneath it."

It's not your fault that you got the upper floor. You're both entitled to the same activities in your unit.
posted by Sufi at 7:09 PM on February 6, 2009

And enlighten me, what does going "all Ghandi on their arses" mean?
posted by sbutler at 7:10 PM on February 6, 2009

Possibly relevant: can you be more specific on the Gandhi bits?
posted by Morrigan at 7:13 PM on February 6, 2009

Response by poster: Ghandi on their arses, explained: "Gandhi preached passive resistance, believing that acts of violence against the British only provoked a negative reaction..."
posted by strawberryviagra at 7:14 PM on February 6, 2009

Response by poster: The question: So, given the following (above) parameters, what would you have done if you received this letter after your son's second birthday (2pm - 5pm on a Sunday)
posted by strawberryviagra at 7:16 PM on February 6, 2009

Unless the building is specifically constructed to prevent it, one will always hear noise from overhead, children and no children. It sounds like a herd of elephants to the first floor folks. They imagine that this noise is coming from wild behavior when it really isn't. Most people who live in this sort of building figure it out pretty quickly if there are more than two brain cells firing. I'm not sure your neighbors are in this category. Can you move? (Remember that if you move to the first floor of this structure, the herd of elephants will be overhead). Perhaps someone with great diplomatic skills could figure out a way to have the neighbors discover on their own that it is an acoustics problem.
posted by Yimji at 7:16 PM on February 6, 2009

Gandhi preached passive resistance . . . .

I think you're confusing passive resistance with passive-aggression. Walking away when a neighbor is trying to talk to you doesn't really strike me as Gandhiesque.

And just so I'm sure I'm understanding this, your kid was spitting on their kid and on their door?
posted by theroadahead at 7:19 PM on February 6, 2009 [4 favorites]

Um, move.

Seriously. Life's too short to spend all your time worrying about this stuff with neighbors.

Move into a unit that's on the bottom of noisy people if you want to see how the other half lives, but better you move into a building actually built for cohabitation, where you either don't share floors/ceilings or the soundproofing is adequate.

In the meantime, go talk with her and explain carefully that it is up to both households to deal with the fact that the building is not well soundproofed, and that even in a soundproof building cohabitation is always a matter of compromise. That means you'll do what you can to keep the noise within waking hours, and they should do what they can to not blow smoke into your windows and threaten you with physical violence if you don't quiet down.

But really, just move. Life's too short.
posted by davejay at 7:24 PM on February 6, 2009

and lest I bore you with more details

Too late.

I don't get why this is in AskMeFi. What would I have done? Maybe take a moment to consider whether my kids actually do sound like a herd of elephants to the folks in the downstairs apartment which they probably do? And then see if maybe I could do something to help solve the problem instead of venting my frustrations on an internet site? I guess that's just me though.
posted by 543DoublePlay at 7:25 PM on February 6, 2009

Seriously consider moving. You're miserable, they're miserable, you clearly don't like them much, they're right about your kids might be happier running around in someplace other than an apartment building, etc, etc, etc. I'm sure you have all kinds of reasons why you can't move or won't move or would rather they move and you dig in your heels and what possible difference does it make to your day if they're using their dryer.

Really, move.
posted by sageleaf at 7:25 PM on February 6, 2009

Well, as long as we're playing HypotheticalFilter:

First I'd pull my son aside and sternly ask him if he was spitting water at people/things. Whatever the answer, I'd explain that in my house it is never acceptable to do that, and tell him that (in the US) it's considered assault/battery and the police will arrest you.

Second, I'd probably ignore most of the letter. If I caught my kid jumping up or down or making excessive noise I'd deal with it on an instance by instance basis. But I wouldn't make a big deal out of it, unless they're treating the furniture as a jungle gym.

Finally, I'd probably still treat the neighbor like any other daily acquaintance. That is, be nice and friendly (read: fake) no matter what my opinion of them is, and try to minimize exposure. Whenever they bring up another complaint give some understanding yet meaningless answer. "Ohh, I'll look into that" or "Thanks for letting me know." Blah blah blah.
posted by sbutler at 7:27 PM on February 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

I would have apologized and assured them it would not happen again.
posted by meerkatty at 7:29 PM on February 6, 2009

Response by poster: That's point by point exactly what I've done, sbutler - it only seems to have worsened the situation, however. I'm obviously not very good at disguising my true feelings when attempting diplomacy.

The spitting water was dealt with (although a little differently - my 5 year old doesn't have much knowledge of US law or the prospect of life behind bars).
posted by strawberryviagra at 7:38 PM on February 6, 2009

I'm with davejay. I was in a similar situation and couldn't figure out a way to keep it from spiraling down and down and down. Healthy kids make noise. This is a fact. Noise bothers neighbors. This is also a fact. I found a tiny house to rent on Craigslist for not much more than we were spending on our apartment. So we got the hell out. Now life is great.
posted by originalname37 at 7:41 PM on February 6, 2009

Whats on your floor, carpet or noisy hardwood? My neighbor had an issue with spring loaded self closing cabinet doors on our shared wall, felt and foam pads as bumpers took care of it.
Or just move.
posted by blink_left at 7:45 PM on February 6, 2009

Response by poster: Yeah - we're in the worst rental crisis in Sydney at present (house rental prices are insane - $800+ a week) we had a place to move to but it fell through just after this happened.

I really don't want to be intimidated into making a hasty decision - even though we've resolved that moving is the best thing to do.
posted by strawberryviagra at 7:47 PM on February 6, 2009

If I received that letter I would have apologized. --It’s what adults do. I would have alerted the neighbors in advance the next time my children were going to have a party/get together with other kids in the apartment, and I would also be damn careful that my kids did not make excessive and/or continuous unnecessary indoor noise the rest of the time. ...And if living that way was too much of a hardship for my family, I would buy a single family home or move to a ground floor flat.

Your neighbors may have shitty politics (which is totally irrelevant) but based on your depiction you're not smelling exactly like a rose here.
posted by applemeat at 7:51 PM on February 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

Hang in there. Keep looking. People don't know what they're asking when they ask you not to let your kids act like kids in their own home.
posted by originalname37 at 7:53 PM on February 6, 2009

Maybe, I don't know, try to get them to make less noise? I certainly wish some neighbors I've had would have done so. Not everyone thinks the interminable sound of children screeching and flailing around and generally being needlessly loud is OMG ADORABLE. In fact, many of us have made conscious life decisions in order to hear it as little as possible, because it's fucking annoying. The little darling jumping up and down on the bed for an hour or screaming at the top of his or her lungs for half an hour straight outside my window may be just the sweetest thing to you, but it may be detracting from someone else's peace and quality of life.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:59 PM on February 6, 2009

I also don't get why this is on ask.mefi.

You say Sydney is in a rental crisis, so what do you choose to do? Improve your situation or exacerbate it? I'm not talking about your kids, I'm talking about you. By simply reading what you've written, it's clear that you neither like nor respect your neighbors. Imagine how much easier that is for THEM to figure out when they can see your actions as well.
posted by 2oh1 at 8:07 PM on February 6, 2009

So, given the following (above) parameters, what would you have done if you received this letter after your son's second birthday (2pm - 5pm on a Sunday)

The politics, climate change, and homophobia don't really matter to this situation.

Personally, I'd be very offended if someone did to me what you did to your neighbor, walking away mid-conversation. You should apologize, regardless of how stupid their suggestion to send your kids to the attic in the morning was. I don't care how much you dislike or disagree with these people, you should still be polite when talking to them.

I'd talk to them in person having prepared a list of changes/agreements I was willing to make (such as: will let neighbors know about birthday parties in advance, will not let kids run around the house at dawn, will discipline kids for slamming doors or spitting water at people, will put down rugs in kids' areas to minimize noise from stomping/running/being kids, etc.) and a list of things that were unreasonable or beyond my control (cannot make kids at a birthday party sit still the whole time, cannot stop all overhead noise in a multi-story building, etc.), plus a list of requests for the neighbors (don't smoke outside our dining room, etc.). I don't mean set out the lists like a contract (although I suppose that could work, depending on the people involved), I mean think about where you're willing to compromise or admit you could have handled something differently and think about where you're not willing or able to make the changes the neighbors want, then have a long, civil conversation in the spirit of "We all have to live here together."
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:11 PM on February 6, 2009

Response by poster: Everyone living in this block has children and one are more or less noisier than others.
posted by strawberryviagra at 8:11 PM on February 6, 2009

It's a tough situation for everyone involved: the parents, the kids and the neighbors. That's why the sooner you find a place (even if it's not the ideal place) the better.
posted by originalname37 at 8:13 PM on February 6, 2009

Best answer: Don't apologize, it'll just make them more arrogant. You are entitled ot live your lives in your own place and they are also free to move.

If they are that sensitive to noise and other people they need to move to a house. In the middle of a big field.
posted by fshgrl at 8:14 PM on February 6, 2009

It sounds to me like your neighbor is trying as hard as possible to be kind and conciliatory in that e-mail. And you call them "Arsehole." That kind of makes it hard for me to see you as the innocent victim here. You also don't tell us anything about how wild the party actually got... Except for that stunning little fact that your child spit on another person and their home. Again, you're not looking like an innocent victim here.

Try to see this from your neighbor's point of view. Try to understand how much an unexpected child's birthday party that may have gotten pretty wild could have affected them. You go out of your way so much to paint this neighbor as a villain, but you don't accept for a minute that maybe you should just try to get your kids to be a little quieter. When your neighbors tried to speak about this problem, instead of trying to come to a mutual accord, you simply walked away. How much do you think that exasperated your neighbor? How much do you think it probably insulted them to have you just dismiss the way your family's behavior is negatively affecting their life? Yeah, you hate them and you think they have horrible political ideas, but they're still people. And, furthermore, they appear to be people who are trying very hard to be polite to you.

What I would have done is apologize. And then I would have used this as an opportunity to help my children figure out how one deals with difficult situations that require compromise and mutual understanding. That's what I would've done.

Yeah, it's frustrating for you. Yeah, children make noise naturally. But you can at least try to talk to this person. Seeing another person, not just as a asshole you have to deal with, but as another living being with emotions, with as much of a struggle getting through the day as you, and goals and hobbies as important as yours, can do wonders to help a situation. If you find yourself getting too enraged to talk calmly, peaceably, and with understanding to this person, just keep repeating to yourself that they are human too, they get frustrated too, they are flawed just like you, and they deserve respect just like you.
posted by Ms. Saint at 8:15 PM on February 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

Best answer: Yeesh, you people. Can we give SV a smidge of the benefit of the doubt? She's mentioned a bunch of reasons, both directly related to her relationship to these folks as a neighbor, and also related to their suckiness as human beings to believe they're being unreasonable jerks and then asked for responses based on an acceptance of that point.

If we're talking about realistic responses I'd suggest something along the lines of what you're already doing. Ignore your annoying neighbor. Throw away the letter. Don't acknowledge them. Interact with them socially to the smallest degree possible. If they corner you to complain about your kids, listen to their complaints if they're brief, or interrupt them if they're determined to go on a long harangue, and let your response simply be "I'm sorry you feel that way. I'll take your thoughts into consideration." and leave it there.

If we're indulging in fantasy, let them know you have a large baseball bat and if they're considering using violence against you to further their petty agenda then they better know the number of a good dentist and surgeon. Tell them that you've got your own complaints against them (you might mention an example or two, like the smoking thing, but don't be too specific) and do they really want to get into airing a long list of grievances? What is this? Festivus? Tell them they're twits for getting all wound up over a two year old's birthday party early on a Sunday afternoon. Tell them that if they keep being jerks, YOU'LL come over and PISS on their door and SonAsshole. Basically, be the bigger asshole.
posted by Reverend John at 8:30 PM on February 6, 2009