What do I do with a querulous neighbor?
December 25, 2008 2:50 PM Subscribe
My downstairs neighbor seems hypersensitive to noise, and repeatedly complains and threatens to "tell" on me to our building supervisor. Advice?
I am very quiet, and rarely have guests over. I rarely play music, but this neighbor, who lives directly downstairs from me, has repeatedly complained about even the noise of me walking across the floor, even barefoot. Ordinary conversation in normal tones of voice is offensive to her, at 8 a.m. in the morning.
I'm hardly a large person, and although the floor is hard wood, I walk quietly and rarely have company over. None of my other neighbors in any direction have ever complained. Nonetheless, this neighbor below has repeatedly come up, rung my doorbell at all hours of day and night, complained about the noise, and then threatened to report me to the manager.
Based on the fact that she has been in the building "15 years" and that I've only been here one, she claims that the management would surely be on her side, should she complain. Of course, I'd rather not take the chance, but I don't see how I could be much quieter than I am already!
I feel extremely harassed by this woman, and limited in my abilities to function in the apartment. I've already laid down a number of rugs to reduce what little noise I do make. Short of moving out and going apartment-hunting (not fun in this city), are there any other things I can do?
This building is relatively old, but has a mix of residents, some with children and some without. There are *clearly* really loud people, including some who party at all hours, and I honestly think I'm quieter than most.
This woman does seem a bit kooky, to put it kindly, and I'm not sure that management would take her complaints seriously, but I'd rather not take the risk. I just want to be able to live in my apartment without being harassed at the door on a frequent basis. Any advice for how to get this woman to stop?
Suggestions, both legal and otherwise, are welcome!
I am very quiet, and rarely have guests over. I rarely play music, but this neighbor, who lives directly downstairs from me, has repeatedly complained about even the noise of me walking across the floor, even barefoot. Ordinary conversation in normal tones of voice is offensive to her, at 8 a.m. in the morning.
I'm hardly a large person, and although the floor is hard wood, I walk quietly and rarely have company over. None of my other neighbors in any direction have ever complained. Nonetheless, this neighbor below has repeatedly come up, rung my doorbell at all hours of day and night, complained about the noise, and then threatened to report me to the manager.
Based on the fact that she has been in the building "15 years" and that I've only been here one, she claims that the management would surely be on her side, should she complain. Of course, I'd rather not take the chance, but I don't see how I could be much quieter than I am already!
I feel extremely harassed by this woman, and limited in my abilities to function in the apartment. I've already laid down a number of rugs to reduce what little noise I do make. Short of moving out and going apartment-hunting (not fun in this city), are there any other things I can do?
This building is relatively old, but has a mix of residents, some with children and some without. There are *clearly* really loud people, including some who party at all hours, and I honestly think I'm quieter than most.
This woman does seem a bit kooky, to put it kindly, and I'm not sure that management would take her complaints seriously, but I'd rather not take the risk. I just want to be able to live in my apartment without being harassed at the door on a frequent basis. Any advice for how to get this woman to stop?
Suggestions, both legal and otherwise, are welcome!
I might approach the managment before she does, they probably have quiet a history with her. Approach the situation by explaining what you have told us but mostly make this about how you are feeling quiet harassased and it is she who is infringing on your enjoyment of the apartment, not the other way around.
I would then ask the managment to ask her not to speak directly to you anymore. It is not her place at all to harass a resident to no end. If she hates it that much she can speak with the management or move.
Some people live in a communal space, but what they really want is a single family house, they just have to get over it. Everyone will on occasion hear their neighbors, smell their food, etc.
As far as practical solutions fluffy rugs go a long way in dampening foot traffic. I would suggest though that she invest in some white noise machines or something because her weirdness is not really your problem if you are being as reasonable as you portray here.
posted by stormygrey at 2:59 PM on December 25, 2008 [5 favorites]
I would then ask the managment to ask her not to speak directly to you anymore. It is not her place at all to harass a resident to no end. If she hates it that much she can speak with the management or move.
Some people live in a communal space, but what they really want is a single family house, they just have to get over it. Everyone will on occasion hear their neighbors, smell their food, etc.
As far as practical solutions fluffy rugs go a long way in dampening foot traffic. I would suggest though that she invest in some white noise machines or something because her weirdness is not really your problem if you are being as reasonable as you portray here.
posted by stormygrey at 2:59 PM on December 25, 2008 [5 favorites]
Some people really are clompers when they walk, but if she complains about talking then she's going to just have to learn to live with something. Click the "noise" tag and see lots of other cases of hypersensitive or noisy neighbors.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 3:17 PM on December 25, 2008
posted by a robot made out of meat at 3:17 PM on December 25, 2008
Yup, "tell" first. Do it in the most nice friendly way possible that, you know, are kind of having a little problem with the person downstairs over noise. Mention the situation jsut as you have here and how exasperated that you can't even have a conversation without her getting upset and other steps you've taken to mitigate noise. Do it on your terms when you're not ambushed by a complaint and you're in a much better situation.
Now when the woman complains at your door you can tell them whatever your manager said, which should shut her up. And when she goes to the manager all pissed off, you'll look like a calm cooperative person while he looks like a crank.
She's lived there 14 years. If she was on good terms with the management she would have talked to them already. Therefore she's probably not so much.
I've been in this situation twice, and both times doing a re-emptive manager talk dealt with it completely.
posted by Ookseer at 3:37 PM on December 25, 2008 [8 favorites]
Now when the woman complains at your door you can tell them whatever your manager said, which should shut her up. And when she goes to the manager all pissed off, you'll look like a calm cooperative person while he looks like a crank.
She's lived there 14 years. If she was on good terms with the management she would have talked to them already. Therefore she's probably not so much.
I've been in this situation twice, and both times doing a re-emptive manager talk dealt with it completely.
posted by Ookseer at 3:37 PM on December 25, 2008 [8 favorites]
I used to live above a person like this. It escalated to the stage that I was even being blamed for traffic noise for the main road we lived near and people walking past the apartment talking. At first the real estate management passed the complaints on to us - but it soon became clear that the problem was that she was slowly going crazier being cooped up in a small apartment all day and night and nothing to do with us at all.
The thing to watch is how it begins to affect you mentally. I caught myself tip toeing around my apartment in socks in the middle of the afternoon while there was construction going on across the road.
Basically the problem stopped when I moved.
You might want to go to management yourself first and complain about her ringing your doorbell all the time though.
posted by gomichild at 3:44 PM on December 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
The thing to watch is how it begins to affect you mentally. I caught myself tip toeing around my apartment in socks in the middle of the afternoon while there was construction going on across the road.
Basically the problem stopped when I moved.
You might want to go to management yourself first and complain about her ringing your doorbell all the time though.
posted by gomichild at 3:44 PM on December 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
I might approach the managment before she does
100% agree with this. I would approach it not as a complaint, but as a diplomatic mission. Something like: "I'm a very quiet person, and I'm sensitive to not disturbing others. But Miss 1A continually complains that I am being too loud. I've done everything I can, including buying rugs specifically because of her complaints. I don't know what else to do. Is this something I should worry about? Do you have any suggestions? Is it possible that you can install some thicker rugs with padding?"
If management is at all reasonable, they will probably chalk it up "apartment life." This is the reality of living under someone else. There will be noise. As long as you are not making noise during "quiet hours" then I don't see how you could be in any trouble from the management.
I would probably conclude by telling the manager that you don't want to deal with Miss 1A any more, and will ask her to contact them if she has any complaints. Then, they will have to explain to her that this is the reality of apartment life. Home owners in the city have traffic, sirens, airplanes and helicopters. Suburban homeowners have barking dogs, and noisy barbecues. Apartment dwellers have footsteps and noise leaking through the walls.
Approaching the management first will show that you have tried to work it out, and they will be more likely to believe your explanation than if you do it in response to her complaint, where it will just seem defensive.
Good luck!
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 3:47 PM on December 25, 2008 [2 favorites]
100% agree with this. I would approach it not as a complaint, but as a diplomatic mission. Something like: "I'm a very quiet person, and I'm sensitive to not disturbing others. But Miss 1A continually complains that I am being too loud. I've done everything I can, including buying rugs specifically because of her complaints. I don't know what else to do. Is this something I should worry about? Do you have any suggestions? Is it possible that you can install some thicker rugs with padding?"
If management is at all reasonable, they will probably chalk it up "apartment life." This is the reality of living under someone else. There will be noise. As long as you are not making noise during "quiet hours" then I don't see how you could be in any trouble from the management.
I would probably conclude by telling the manager that you don't want to deal with Miss 1A any more, and will ask her to contact them if she has any complaints. Then, they will have to explain to her that this is the reality of apartment life. Home owners in the city have traffic, sirens, airplanes and helicopters. Suburban homeowners have barking dogs, and noisy barbecues. Apartment dwellers have footsteps and noise leaking through the walls.
Approaching the management first will show that you have tried to work it out, and they will be more likely to believe your explanation than if you do it in response to her complaint, where it will just seem defensive.
Good luck!
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 3:47 PM on December 25, 2008 [2 favorites]
I lived above one of these people. It makes enjoying life very difficult. It was eventually solved after my landlord got sick of getting calls about it. It also helped when I mentioned to her that I could hear their (physical, violent) fights, and that they frequently woke me up well before my alarm.
Go to your management before she does. You are not in the wrong here... nobody in an apartment building has the right to silence. I sorely wish they did (like when the aforementioned bitch and her whelp beat on each other; or the whelp played basketball in the living room; or hooked his computer up to his sound system so that the "bloop" of an incoming AIM message sounded like--hey, maybe that's what the bloop was); but, you don't. It's not physically possible. It's an unreasonable expectation.
If she can't deal with a reasonable level of noise during regular hours, and she's harassing you about it, she is impacting your expected enjoyment of the apartment. Ergo, she is the problem; you should complain about her. There is no reason that you should accept a lowered quality of life on her crazy account.
As for whether or not you'll "get in trouble". I can't imagine that a complaint about noise from a single neighbor is going to have much effect (if you have other neighbors). If you were really being noisy, there would be complaints from all directions.
posted by Netzapper at 4:16 PM on December 25, 2008
Go to your management before she does. You are not in the wrong here... nobody in an apartment building has the right to silence. I sorely wish they did (like when the aforementioned bitch and her whelp beat on each other; or the whelp played basketball in the living room; or hooked his computer up to his sound system so that the "bloop" of an incoming AIM message sounded like--hey, maybe that's what the bloop was); but, you don't. It's not physically possible. It's an unreasonable expectation.
If she can't deal with a reasonable level of noise during regular hours, and she's harassing you about it, she is impacting your expected enjoyment of the apartment. Ergo, she is the problem; you should complain about her. There is no reason that you should accept a lowered quality of life on her crazy account.
As for whether or not you'll "get in trouble". I can't imagine that a complaint about noise from a single neighbor is going to have much effect (if you have other neighbors). If you were really being noisy, there would be complaints from all directions.
posted by Netzapper at 4:16 PM on December 25, 2008
I lived on the first floor of a three floor place and the woman on the third floor was complaining about my music a lot. It was mildly loud but really, there were two floors between us, and it wasn't really that loud. I went as far as following her up to her place to listen to the music. Where I could almost sort of hear it, just barely.
Oh yeah this was at 6pm on a Friday night.
Anyway, she had this whole thing about how the landlord told her that there would never, ever be any noise in this apartment. She called and complained. The landlord, who was kind of an asshole, but anyway, in this situation backed me up. She basically told her that if she had that much of a problem she should move out.
One detail...this was in 2002 when tenants were a dime a dozen (in Somerville, MA). Might be a little different now. But anyway, I'd definitely call the management company. And have them tell the tenant that she should direct her complaints to them instead of you.
And also, eff her. Start living your life and ignore her. I really hate that walking on eggshells thing in my own house. It's a horrible way to live.
posted by sully75 at 5:24 PM on December 25, 2008
Oh yeah this was at 6pm on a Friday night.
Anyway, she had this whole thing about how the landlord told her that there would never, ever be any noise in this apartment. She called and complained. The landlord, who was kind of an asshole, but anyway, in this situation backed me up. She basically told her that if she had that much of a problem she should move out.
One detail...this was in 2002 when tenants were a dime a dozen (in Somerville, MA). Might be a little different now. But anyway, I'd definitely call the management company. And have them tell the tenant that she should direct her complaints to them instead of you.
And also, eff her. Start living your life and ignore her. I really hate that walking on eggshells thing in my own house. It's a horrible way to live.
posted by sully75 at 5:24 PM on December 25, 2008
Call her bluff.
Arrange a meeting with her and the super. Let her explain to the super in you presence her issues with noise. Every time she complains, do the same thing and the super will get sick of it. I'm sure you will find that she would have an history.
Be nice about it. Knock on her door, apologise for disturbing her, but let her know that you have arranged a meeting with the super to discuss her concerns. I bet she backs off- but make sure you do go through with the meeting. You want her to log the times when she feels you are being too noisy, what type of noise and the duration. Looking at the situation from her perspective in the presence of the "authorities" can be very disarming.
posted by mattoxic at 5:55 PM on December 25, 2008
Arrange a meeting with her and the super. Let her explain to the super in you presence her issues with noise. Every time she complains, do the same thing and the super will get sick of it. I'm sure you will find that she would have an history.
Be nice about it. Knock on her door, apologise for disturbing her, but let her know that you have arranged a meeting with the super to discuss her concerns. I bet she backs off- but make sure you do go through with the meeting. You want her to log the times when she feels you are being too noisy, what type of noise and the duration. Looking at the situation from her perspective in the presence of the "authorities" can be very disarming.
posted by mattoxic at 5:55 PM on December 25, 2008
Talk to the manager / super. While looking for an apartment is a gigantic-sized pain in the ass, it's also incrementally soul-crushing to live in a situation in which you're constantly afraid that you're going to get in trouble when you're doing nothing wrong.
Find out how management feels about the situation, and you'll sleep a lot better at night, regardless of what position they take.
posted by the bricabrac man at 6:22 PM on December 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Find out how management feels about the situation, and you'll sleep a lot better at night, regardless of what position they take.
posted by the bricabrac man at 6:22 PM on December 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
If she's been there for 15 years, I'm sure they've been hearing her complain for 15 years. She may have gotten crazier/more bored as the years wore on, but you can be sure you're not the first upstairs neighbor she's harassed. You're being a really good neighbor. She's being a rotten one. They're right upthread: talk to management right away. You've done everything you can, now let them handle it.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:51 PM on December 25, 2008
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:51 PM on December 25, 2008
Nonetheless, this neighbor below has repeatedly come up, rung my doorbell at all hours of day and night, complained about the noise, and then threatened to report me to the manager.
Your response: "Call the manager? Please do. I'll get the phone."
Then she'll slink away. Bullies always do.
posted by 26.2 at 9:57 PM on December 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Your response: "Call the manager? Please do. I'll get the phone."
Then she'll slink away. Bullies always do.
posted by 26.2 at 9:57 PM on December 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Go and buy a pair of earplugs. Next time she calls round, put in the earplugs so you won't be able to hear her whiney complaints.
posted by mr. strange at 2:48 AM on December 26, 2008
posted by mr. strange at 2:48 AM on December 26, 2008
Oh man, I had this woman as my downstairs neighbor on East 7th Street. Complaining about the slightest creak in the floorboards from shoe-less, stereo-less, TV-free, bedtime at 10 PM me. Demands for wall-to-wall carpeting. Nasty notes and out-of-nowhere in-person visits to express her rage at the mere fact of my physical presence in the apartment. Threats that I was violating the law by not placing rugs on every square inch of my floor.
The litmus test for crazy is if they complain about the sound of bare feet walking around the apartment. And if it's the same woman, nothing less than complete silence without any trace of human habitation is going to be acceptable to her. And if she's the same woman, the threats are most likely empty. Take the sound recommendations from other people to approach the landlord first.
Just to reframe this a little: you've dealt with her very courteously and been very accommodating, which is commendable. However, the steps you have taken are based on the assumption that you're dealing with someone who is reasonable, and it's becoming clear that this woman is not. Walking in bare feet around the apartment is an unavoidable part of living in an apartment, and if she objects to that she should find a place on the top floor or stop living in an apartment building. Remember, you're already making as little noise as possible- it's not as if you're clomping around in platform boots or pumping the heavy bass. You are also under no obligation to redecorate to suit her preferences. The first logical step would be for her to take steps on her end to limit the impact of the noise on her life, such as installing soundproofing materials in her place -- not demanding you make expensive purchases and make unwanted changes to yours.
Her behavior seems- at least based on what you've written here- to have escalated to the point of harassment. After you contact the landlord, I'd recommend telling her that all future complaints should be directed to the management and no longer answer the doorbell when she comes to air her grievances.
Contact the landlord first, and make it clear that you're the reasonable one here.
PS I finally resolved my problems with my neighbor after consulting a lifetime New Yorker, who said, "Foxy_hedgehog, this isn't California. You don't have to be nice to everyone." My version of "not nice" was simply ignoring her. Worked like a charm.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 7:20 AM on December 26, 2008
The litmus test for crazy is if they complain about the sound of bare feet walking around the apartment. And if it's the same woman, nothing less than complete silence without any trace of human habitation is going to be acceptable to her. And if she's the same woman, the threats are most likely empty. Take the sound recommendations from other people to approach the landlord first.
Just to reframe this a little: you've dealt with her very courteously and been very accommodating, which is commendable. However, the steps you have taken are based on the assumption that you're dealing with someone who is reasonable, and it's becoming clear that this woman is not. Walking in bare feet around the apartment is an unavoidable part of living in an apartment, and if she objects to that she should find a place on the top floor or stop living in an apartment building. Remember, you're already making as little noise as possible- it's not as if you're clomping around in platform boots or pumping the heavy bass. You are also under no obligation to redecorate to suit her preferences. The first logical step would be for her to take steps on her end to limit the impact of the noise on her life, such as installing soundproofing materials in her place -- not demanding you make expensive purchases and make unwanted changes to yours.
Her behavior seems- at least based on what you've written here- to have escalated to the point of harassment. After you contact the landlord, I'd recommend telling her that all future complaints should be directed to the management and no longer answer the doorbell when she comes to air her grievances.
Contact the landlord first, and make it clear that you're the reasonable one here.
PS I finally resolved my problems with my neighbor after consulting a lifetime New Yorker, who said, "Foxy_hedgehog, this isn't California. You don't have to be nice to everyone." My version of "not nice" was simply ignoring her. Worked like a charm.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 7:20 AM on December 26, 2008
nthing that you need to call her bluff, but also to write to the management. Do not call, do not go visit them, write a letter, because a written document is what you will need if it ever comes to a formal dispute. Explain what you laid out here, including the fact that you already purchased rugs.
And then ignore her. If she confronts you, tell her that you already talked to the management and that she should definitely call them. That should be your only response.
posted by micawber at 7:55 AM on December 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
And then ignore her. If she confronts you, tell her that you already talked to the management and that she should definitely call them. That should be your only response.
posted by micawber at 7:55 AM on December 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
i'm afraid my mother might be one of these people. she wants her own space but can't afford a house so she stays in apartments. she is hyper sensitive to noise and has been known to bang against ceilings and floors with brooms and insist that the woman upstairs wore high heels at all hours. it has gotten worse as she gets older, and i feel personally a bit guilty for all the hostility she expressed to our neighbors when i was in highschool.
if she's been there for 15 years and she's crazy enough to contact you instead of contacting the management first then she should become management's problem, not yours. i'd bet she's ousted numerous previous tenants for being "loud" simply by being nasty, so you should be fine.
posted by big open mouth at 2:09 PM on December 26, 2008
if she's been there for 15 years and she's crazy enough to contact you instead of contacting the management first then she should become management's problem, not yours. i'd bet she's ousted numerous previous tenants for being "loud" simply by being nasty, so you should be fine.
posted by big open mouth at 2:09 PM on December 26, 2008
Nth-nthing talking to the management first. Maybe she's a notorious crank, or maybe you'll prevent yourself from getting dinged by the management for a record of noise by being proactive, depending upon how aware management is of her.
Also, old apartment buildings can be notorious for sounds traveling strangely through plumbing, etc. We had repeated complaints about noise during times that we were not even in the state from a downstairs neighbor. We had an angry late-night visit by her banging on our door and screaming about the stereo -- while we were asleep -- when we foggily answered the door in our quiet, dark, apartment, she claimed that we were pulling tricks on her. We were furious with this woman.
The super finally convinced her that the noises she was hearing were not coming from us -- sometimes sounds that seem to be from directly above are not really directly above. She sent us a basket of flowers and an apology. At that point, we softened considerably and could empathize that she must have felt that she was going insane, hearing things that were ostensibly directly overhead which were not.
posted by desuetude at 3:08 PM on December 26, 2008
Also, old apartment buildings can be notorious for sounds traveling strangely through plumbing, etc. We had repeated complaints about noise during times that we were not even in the state from a downstairs neighbor. We had an angry late-night visit by her banging on our door and screaming about the stereo -- while we were asleep -- when we foggily answered the door in our quiet, dark, apartment, she claimed that we were pulling tricks on her. We were furious with this woman.
The super finally convinced her that the noises she was hearing were not coming from us -- sometimes sounds that seem to be from directly above are not really directly above. She sent us a basket of flowers and an apology. At that point, we softened considerably and could empathize that she must have felt that she was going insane, hearing things that were ostensibly directly overhead which were not.
posted by desuetude at 3:08 PM on December 26, 2008
Your neighbor is being unreasonable. I'm sure your supervisor is used to her ridiculous complaints, as she has been living in the building for fifteen years.
I'm thinking your supervisor will be on your side. Your neighbor has been there for fifteen years, and you've been there one. You're more likely to leave than your annoying neighbor, and I'm sure they want to keep your rent money coming in.
posted by Modus Pwnens at 4:46 PM on December 26, 2008
I'm thinking your supervisor will be on your side. Your neighbor has been there for fifteen years, and you've been there one. You're more likely to leave than your annoying neighbor, and I'm sure they want to keep your rent money coming in.
posted by Modus Pwnens at 4:46 PM on December 26, 2008
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As long as you are taking reasonable measures to be less quiet, it is likely the management's problem/responsibility to carpet or pad the floors. Let her tell on you. What is going to happen?
Don't answer the door when she comes over.
posted by k8t at 2:57 PM on December 25, 2008