stampede protection

October 1, 2008 10:05 AM

What's the best way to protect yourself if you're caught in a stampede?

If I'm stuck in a throng of people and no exit in sight, what steps can I take to ensure that I'll get out of the stampede alive?

posted by dhruva to grab bag (23 comments total)

Move with the crowd and keep your knees up.
posted by sanka at 10:20 AM on October 1, 2008

Don't stop moving. Walk/run with a wide stance to help keep your balance. Try to move with the flow.

(I've never been in a stampede, and these are things that make sense to me..I HOPE this would help)
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 10:20 AM on October 1, 2008

Could you clarify if you mean a moving stampede or a crushing (non-moving) stampede? For a moving stampede, I would try to sprint forward and to the side, then find any nook or doorway to stand in while the stampede moved past. For a crushing stampede, I would try to climb on top of people to avoid the crush.
posted by jedicus at 10:20 AM on October 1, 2008

definitely don't fall down and try to get the periphery.
posted by mmascolino at 10:24 AM on October 1, 2008

I would try to sprint forward

But then you have the risk of falling, and then it would be very hard to stand up again, no?
posted by dhruva at 10:29 AM on October 1, 2008

In the aftermath of the RI club fire, I remember a list of survival tips that was published (imagine the ghoulish editor looking for a fresh angle on that tragedy). I can't find it online but paraphrasing from memory:

pre-stampede:

upon entering a crowded location, especially one that is poorly lit, gather your bearings and look for the exits or things which could be used as exits, such as windows. Plot a path to them all, noting any landmarks.

mid-stampede:

Don't stop. Try to move in a diagonal with the flow toward the edges of the stampede.

Don't fall (obvious) but if you do, crawl up someone's leg to get to a standing position.
posted by jamaro at 10:30 AM on October 1, 2008

Add to jamaro's advice:

Look down occasionally. Tripping on someone else who has fallen is one of the main ways an initial stampede is compounded with injuries and fatalities.

Don't wear clothes that are overly flowy or difficult to maneuver in. If you happen to be garbed otherwise, take off anything that is hampering your movement or could get caught up in the stampede as soon as possible (but don't stop moving).
posted by batmonkey at 10:34 AM on October 1, 2008

dhruva, is this in the context of the stampede that was recently in india that killed 150 people?

It's amazing to me that it's 2008, and these things still happen. What struck me about the article I read is that it seemed that a lot of children lost their parents in the stampede.

When trying to think about how this could happen, I could only surmise that the kids had fallen down, and the parents fell on top of them to protect them.

So, from that, I guess I can draw that if you with a child and in a stampede, pick up your kid and carry them, using them to balance.

I still can't believe the stampede happened. There was no disaster, no fire, no earthquake. People just started stampeding!
posted by unexpected at 10:45 AM on October 1, 2008

You mentioned with no exits in sight, and I just want to mention that if you're in a panicking crowd, the exits are not necessarily where you want to go to. When a large group of people try to squeeze through an opening meant for far fewer people the crushing forces can be deadly.
posted by bjrn at 10:52 AM on October 1, 2008

is this in the context of the stampede that was recently in india that killed 150 people?
Partly. Also I was in a Mexico Independence day celebration with people packed in a small plaza, and later learned that a similar celebration in another town had been attacked by criminals throwing grenades, which could have set off a stampede. In India, I would never go to such large gatherings, since lamentably, stampedes occur pretty frequently, especially at religious gatherings.
posted by dhruva at 11:00 AM on October 1, 2008

I still can't believe the stampede happened. There was no disaster, no fire, no earthquake. People just started stampeding!

I don't know where you're getting that from. Every report I've seen has cited some reason, though they conflict. Wikipedia notes:

According to The Times of India, local reports suggest that a bomb blast in nearby Mehrangarh created panic among the pilgrims resulting in the stampede.[3] However, the BBC News reported that a collapsing wall may have also caused the stampede.[10] Some eyewitnesses told CNN-IBN that a rumor about a bomb being planted in the temple caused panic among pilgrims.[6]

I've been in a stampede, and let me just say that people who haven't are imputing a lot more agency here than is generally possible once it's underway. A pressing crowd won't let you do much more than go with the flow. By all means, look for obstructions that you can get to, but be aware that obstacles are also often where people end up crushed. If you can angle in any direction, avoid moving toward the bottlenecks, if you're convinced that the crowd presents a larger danger than whatever they're trying to get away from.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:35 AM on October 1, 2008

I have been in one and it is truly scary. The rush of the crowd is more powerful than you can imagine no matter how powerful you may be personally. Go with the flow, don't fight it. The idea of moving somewhat diagonally sounds good in theory, but you wouldn't want to do anything that increases your risk of falling. The crowd I was in was confined to a long narrow hallway so there were no edges to escape to and it was tightly packed. You did not need to actually have your feet on the ground; you just were propelled forward (not that I am recommending pulling your feet off of the ground). Holding my arms out, kind of like the position of protecting a basketball after a rebound, seemed to help open a tiny bit of space around me. The most important thing is to keep riding the wave and not lose your balance.
posted by caddis at 11:36 AM on October 1, 2008

Though I have not been in a stampede, I was in Jackson Square in New Orleans one New Years. Don't laugh, it was one of the more frightening things that have happened to me. The square was so crowded that there were several times that my feet left the ground for several steps and I was just carried along. I had trouble expanding my chest to breathe from being pressed so close to others. I immediately was forced to drop the hand of the person I was with and sort of just got battered about until I was ejected at the crowd's edge. And this was with no sort of alarm going through the crowd. I am short, and not being able to see anything but other people's chests and backs made it far scarier. It was worse than any concert I have ever attended.

I was pretty much helpless. Even now, I cannot think of any technique other than avoidance I could have used to escape should people have panicked. The bright spot was it would have been difficult to fall, being packed in so close. But had I fallen? I would have definitely gotten tramped and quite injured. I guess my best bet at that point would have been to roll into a ball and try to protect my head. I will never go to Jackson Square for New Years again, I'll tell you that.
posted by thebrokedown at 11:50 AM on October 1, 2008

I was in a stampede many years ago and am convinced some people died in the process. It was probably the most horrifying experience in my entire life.

The thing that got me out of it safely was moving diagonally with and against the crowd instead of getting swept up in it. The people at the front of a crowd that becomes a stampede are (in my opinion) most likely to get hurt. They'll get trampled if they fall, or crushed if the crowd finds itself blocked by an obstacle.

The best advice is universal safety advice, really. Know your surroundings. In my case, I was in a back yard turned into a discotheque in South America. It was jammed beyond capacity when a fight broke out. Glass was flying everywhere, but that became a secondary problem when a panic swept through the crowd and people flooded away from the scene. I recalled there being a brick wall at the end of the yard in the direction the crowd was running towards... maybe 10 feet high? I could hear screaming in that direction, and it was an entirely different kind of screaming than the shrieks of fear where the glass was flying. I feared the brick wall more than the flying glass and oncoming crowd. The entire space was walled off, actually, but with the crowd running in one direction, it seemed wise for me to do anything but follow them since the entire space was enclosed... but you can't run against a stampede... so, the trick was to move diagonally through it - against it when I could and with it when I couldn't - but always diagonally.

...then again, if everybody did that, the situation would probably have been far worse. Chaos breeds chaos.

In the end, I was probably just lucky.

Jesus, that was almost 20 years ago and I can still picture the scene so clearly.
posted by 2oh1 at 12:05 PM on October 1, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Seconding caddis and thebrokedown's experiences: there's really nothing you can do except let your instincts for remaining upright take over. It's quite eerie when the crowd crosses that line into stampede; I was at a very, very large outdoor concert and this happened. It's like a rip current; don't fight it, just work toward the sides as it carries you along.

My stampede tips? Avoid them by staying peripheral to the crowd where possible. Where impossible, arms/elbows out to keep people off of you and to keep you anchored to the "mass" of people; and don't "commit" with a step until you're sure of your footing, always keeping your feet low to the ground, and your legs sort of in that "half flexed" position, like you're ready for a fall at any second, or how you'd walk in a dark room where you know there's stuff on the floor but you can't see it.

And if you're a man, for God's sake help people up who've fallen--once people see you helping, they come to their senses and they'll give a tug as well and you can help people from getting hurt or killed.
posted by resurrexit at 12:12 PM on October 1, 2008

I haven't been in an actual stampede, but I have been in some crowds rough enough to pick me up off my feet. All you can really do is concentrate on not falling and keeping the person in front of you from falling - if they go down, you probably will too.

If crushing or suffocation is a worry, make a box with your arms in front of you - each hand in the inner elbow of the opposite arm. Hold this out perpendicular to your chest, and you'll keep some breathing space for yourself.
posted by echo target at 1:00 PM on October 1, 2008

My closest experience was being at a NIN concert on the edge of an impromptu mosh pit. These human waves started up and while my friend and I were able to withstand most of them, in protecting her (I'm twice as heavy) I was the one who got knocked over. I wasn't injured but in the general melee at least one person ended up with smashed glasses and blood on his face. Getting trampled to death wasn't a concern here -- people actually gave people room to get up -- but I imagine some folks were injured when others fell on top of them. So you definitely want to say upright as your first priority. You're not designed as a tripod, though, and a surge can come from any direction with no warning.

My friend was in a crush at (I think) Tiger Stadium when she was in her teens. She was literally saved by someone who thought as a smallish and light person she was in immediate danger and grabbed her from behind to lift her up. With the help of a couple of other people she was raised to the roof of a booth of some kind and wasn't hurt.

So, stay up if you can, and make your way toward any periphery where you think you can get up and get out. But beware corners and walls where you could get trapped.

There was no disaster, no fire, no earthquake. People just started stampeding!

This is really not surprising if you study group behavior. If you prefer, think of the butterfly's wings causing a tornado on the other side of the world. The incident I think of was the Brooklyn Bridge crush, shortly after it opened. A long pedestrian stairway was full of people who couldn't see much in front or behind. Either a pickpocket was spotted (one story) or more likely someone just tripped and fell, and the crowd ended up trampling several people. The folks doing the trampling, of course, were just as helpless as those getting trampled. The folks at the top, who had the most option to not enter the stairs, had no idea there were people dying below. Almost everyone was simply trapped between immovable objects in front of them and irresistible forces behind them.
posted by dhartung at 2:47 PM on October 1, 2008

The recent book The Unthinkable, by Amanda Ripley, has a section dealing with this.

The advice for what to do if you're actually caught in a stampede is meager and not very reassuring: Once you are in a crowd crush, there is little you can do to save yourself. If possible, [researcher] Still recommends gradually working your way to the outside of the crowd by stepping sideways as the crowd moves backward (p148).

It is, however, a fascinating discussion of the physics of crowds and how to design spaces that reduce the risk of stampedes--on preview, similar to the last bit of dhartung's comment.
posted by hippugeek at 3:17 PM on October 1, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

A tip I have heard that sounds like it would be very helpful is to fold your arms and stick your elbows straight out in opposite directions and pick up your legs. Theoretically, if there are enough people, you would be carried along by the crowd so there's no chance of being crushed underfoot.
posted by alitorbati at 5:42 PM on October 1, 2008

fold your arms and stick your elbows straight out in opposite directions and pick up your legs. Theoretically, if there are enough people, you would be carried along by the crowd so there's no chance of being crushed underfoot.

been there, done that, but really, keep your feet on the ground where you maintain some measure of control rather than totally floating on the wave of the crowd, although the difference really is not that large as even with your feet on the ground you have very, very little control. The only control that matters is staying upright and not falling and that is where I think having your feet on the ground is a benefit.
posted by caddis at 6:28 PM on October 1, 2008

When you're caught in a stampede, just go with the flow. That's how water molecules avoid getting crushed by other water molecules.

--- Jack Handey
posted by jayder at 9:48 PM on October 1, 2008

One of the security guards from the Donington disaster has written a paper on crowd safety, correcting some misconceptions about what happened and talking about how the deaths could have been prevented.

It's online here.

In fact learning from the case studies here and here is probably a great starting point.
posted by the latin mouse at 8:05 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I was at a legalization rally Washington Square Park. I was toward the outer edges of the scene and never found out what set off the panic but something happened closer to the center and I turned to the thunder to see thousands of people running at top speed -AT ME- toward the edge of the park. I was dumbfounded, slowly realizing that there was no way to start running and get anywhere close to speed....but a quickthinking friend grabbed me and threw us both against the street-side of a tree. We watched people fly by. Thank god for the immovable object.
posted by Jezebella at 4:36 PM on October 5, 2008