Open relationships after 50?
December 31, 2020 8:14 AM Subscribe
Married 50 cis hetero male here. I've lost the thread on open relationships in the last 30 years... help? Snowflakes, etc.
My wife and I have been happily together for almost 27 years, and plan on staying together. Totally normal suburban couple... who met as a part of a poly group of 6. The group fell apart after a couple of years due to one member's actions, and the wife and I were monogamous as we raised the kids (who are now adults and out in the world and I couldn't be more proud of them).
My wife is now involved in some male-centric sports, is outgoing and quite attractive, and has a number of offers for monogamish (ugh, why do I hate that word?) or friend-with-benefit relationships. I've been in therapy and wasn't ready for anything, but saw no reason to keep her from having a fun and fulfilling time. After discussion and boundary setting, gently turning down men less than half her age, and a few missteps, she has just that.
I'm now feeling more ready to be monogamish or have a FWB, but not, say, out and out "the lifestyle" swinging. So, the world has changed a bit since the last time I've done this, yes? Back in the day, we were part of what was then more alternative groups in our community: cosplay, sci-fi and comic conventions, role playing games. Open relationships and poly groups weren't quite the norm, but people wouldn't be particularly surprised or offended if they found out. Now... let's just say, I've had to talk quickly with some of my social circle about why I'm getting a vasectomy. And I can only stare in wonder at the ongoing train-wreck that online-dating appears to be.
To be specific, I'm not interested in advice about attractiveness and attraction. I'm odd-looking, and not particularly neurotypical, and, eh, that's life, and I'll find partners or I won't. But, I'm terrible at reading social cues in the moment (y'all, the number of opportunities I've missed that were obvious in retrospect... sigh), and very sensitive to causing discomfort in others. (See also: therapy).
I'm in a mid-sized city in the US... Are there typical social groups in my age range where poly and open relationships are more the norm? Are there online groups where I can learn more about guidelines for navigating this without stomping all over friendships and being a fool? Is there a middle-aged middle ground out there between key party and committed relationship that exists in more than self-help books?
My wife and I have been happily together for almost 27 years, and plan on staying together. Totally normal suburban couple... who met as a part of a poly group of 6. The group fell apart after a couple of years due to one member's actions, and the wife and I were monogamous as we raised the kids (who are now adults and out in the world and I couldn't be more proud of them).
My wife is now involved in some male-centric sports, is outgoing and quite attractive, and has a number of offers for monogamish (ugh, why do I hate that word?) or friend-with-benefit relationships. I've been in therapy and wasn't ready for anything, but saw no reason to keep her from having a fun and fulfilling time. After discussion and boundary setting, gently turning down men less than half her age, and a few missteps, she has just that.
I'm now feeling more ready to be monogamish or have a FWB, but not, say, out and out "the lifestyle" swinging. So, the world has changed a bit since the last time I've done this, yes? Back in the day, we were part of what was then more alternative groups in our community: cosplay, sci-fi and comic conventions, role playing games. Open relationships and poly groups weren't quite the norm, but people wouldn't be particularly surprised or offended if they found out. Now... let's just say, I've had to talk quickly with some of my social circle about why I'm getting a vasectomy. And I can only stare in wonder at the ongoing train-wreck that online-dating appears to be.
To be specific, I'm not interested in advice about attractiveness and attraction. I'm odd-looking, and not particularly neurotypical, and, eh, that's life, and I'll find partners or I won't. But, I'm terrible at reading social cues in the moment (y'all, the number of opportunities I've missed that were obvious in retrospect... sigh), and very sensitive to causing discomfort in others. (See also: therapy).
I'm in a mid-sized city in the US... Are there typical social groups in my age range where poly and open relationships are more the norm? Are there online groups where I can learn more about guidelines for navigating this without stomping all over friendships and being a fool? Is there a middle-aged middle ground out there between key party and committed relationship that exists in more than self-help books?
As a cis straight woman in my mid-40s actively dating the past few years, I can assure you that there are many married straight cis men in open relationships of some kind. I disagree that that online dating is a train-wreck (it sounds like you haven't actually done it, so I'd be careful not to judge it so harshly), and I'd encourage you to avoid that language as you may end up with partners who have found other partners there and they may feel shamed by a comment like that. It's like many things: it's what you make of it. Are you open at all to trying it? There are some dating apps that are better suited to non-monogamy, including OK Cupid. Bumble has an option to identify yourself as monogamous or non-monogamous. And in my area, plenty of folks say they are non-monogamous in their profiles on Tinder.
So you'll want to find the norms in your city and non-monogamous community. There are certainly meet-ups and gatherings of non-monogamous folks. Do a search on meetup.com or Facebook for non-monogamous or poly groups in your city, and you'll see what's happening (likely virtually these days?). You could also go the way you mentioned before, of finding non-monogamous-friendly groups, but non-monogamy is popular enough that I bet there are groups specifically for that in your town. Once you find those folks, you can ask them about what they're using for dating. Perhaps they are using an app or the group or something else.
If you want to get up to speed on non-monogamy in current times, there are a few subreddits thatmight be helpful, one on non-monogamy and one on polyamory (and folks might be using different vocabulary in your community).
As a heads up: many married straight men find it more difficult to find partners than their wives do. But it sounds like you have a great attitude about this with your wife and yourself, and I suspect that attitude will help you a lot on this journey.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:07 AM on December 31, 2020 [8 favorites]
So you'll want to find the norms in your city and non-monogamous community. There are certainly meet-ups and gatherings of non-monogamous folks. Do a search on meetup.com or Facebook for non-monogamous or poly groups in your city, and you'll see what's happening (likely virtually these days?). You could also go the way you mentioned before, of finding non-monogamous-friendly groups, but non-monogamy is popular enough that I bet there are groups specifically for that in your town. Once you find those folks, you can ask them about what they're using for dating. Perhaps they are using an app or the group or something else.
If you want to get up to speed on non-monogamy in current times, there are a few subreddits thatmight be helpful, one on non-monogamy and one on polyamory (and folks might be using different vocabulary in your community).
As a heads up: many married straight men find it more difficult to find partners than their wives do. But it sounds like you have a great attitude about this with your wife and yourself, and I suspect that attitude will help you a lot on this journey.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:07 AM on December 31, 2020 [8 favorites]
I've been doing online dating for 24 years. It is a train wreck, so bluedaisy, some people who have done a ton of it would strongly disagree with you.
I was also polyamorous for a good chunk of adulthood and after that maintained friendships and housemates who were polyamorous, even when I no longer was. Polyamorous dating hasn't gotten better, it's gotten worse. More people have discovered it, and with that influx the community has become less good at ejecting the arseholes. It's also become less stigmatizing in society as a whole, so it's attracting more people who are in it for easy sex with no responsibilities, or ethics, rather than people who believe in it. And people have gotten better at mouthing woke platitudes, which seems way more important than actually being a decent human being. Drama (God how I hate that word) hasn't gotten any better, it's magnified tenfold, and the problems that always existed are still there: mismatched desires/expectations even with good communication, cult-of-personality, the people who insist any bad feelings are bad and entirely the fault of the feeling-haver, people who catch feelings, increased STD risk with more people involved, even with safer sex, etc. To actually answer your question:
There is no built-in commity where you can be assured everyone wants exactly what you say you want, which is the middle ground between swinging and relationships. It sounds like you're looking for friends with benefits, but even I can't be 100% sure what that means to you from your post. You define it as a middle ground between "key parties" and "relationships", but that covers a lot of ground and you and your wife both need to be explicit about what that means. Any way you slice it, you're going to have to have that discussion _every_ time you consider going on a date, or put it in your profile. There is no automatic dating pool where you can be sure everyone has the same goals.
Also expect that lonely people may take you up on what you offer thinking they can handle it, when they can't.
Basically, good luck. In spite of the twin dumpster fires of polyamorous dating and online dating I still strongly believe that it's possible for both to work. However, I think that 99 percent of people get into it because they're bored, and think they're owed sexual variety or constant stimulation, they have a dim grasp of possible hurtful consequences, and for married couples especially, that they're a little bored with each other and expect other people to amuse them or fulfill them while not getting back the things they ARE getting from their marriage. As long as these people are all only fucking each other, that's fantastic for them. Everyone is a grown-ass adult and gets to do whatever floats their boat.
But think goddamn carefully about what you want, communicate your expectations clearly, and if there's a possibility your wife could change the rules midstreammake sure the other party knows that. Then, if you can tell someone is doing something they don't want to out of desperation do the decent thing and don't let it carry on long enough to get ugly.
Your comment about your looks and personality make me think you've been trapped in suburbia too long, fwiw. I've been in nerd/geek communities of many particular stripes my whole adult life, and I can tell you that pretty much everyone who wants to get laid will get laid. Very few people go for "traditional" good looks, and almost everyone in these communities is odd and/or awkward. It *is* harder for older women, and men, and it can be harder specifically for men who are married. So I think you may have to work at it a bit, but for different reasons than you think. Even with all that said, if you've got a large enough local community, even that isn't going to slow you down. Smaller cities can be a lot more difficult, and the answer to that is conventions (sci fi/blogging/yoga/polyamorous/whatever you're into that will be attended by a liberal group with high numbers of your preferred genders/sexualities). Meet, communicate, take risks (and by that I mean express interest and ask people out) and you'll find what you want.
posted by liminal_shadows at 3:47 PM on December 31, 2020 [6 favorites]
I was also polyamorous for a good chunk of adulthood and after that maintained friendships and housemates who were polyamorous, even when I no longer was. Polyamorous dating hasn't gotten better, it's gotten worse. More people have discovered it, and with that influx the community has become less good at ejecting the arseholes. It's also become less stigmatizing in society as a whole, so it's attracting more people who are in it for easy sex with no responsibilities, or ethics, rather than people who believe in it. And people have gotten better at mouthing woke platitudes, which seems way more important than actually being a decent human being. Drama (God how I hate that word) hasn't gotten any better, it's magnified tenfold, and the problems that always existed are still there: mismatched desires/expectations even with good communication, cult-of-personality, the people who insist any bad feelings are bad and entirely the fault of the feeling-haver, people who catch feelings, increased STD risk with more people involved, even with safer sex, etc. To actually answer your question:
There is no built-in commity where you can be assured everyone wants exactly what you say you want, which is the middle ground between swinging and relationships. It sounds like you're looking for friends with benefits, but even I can't be 100% sure what that means to you from your post. You define it as a middle ground between "key parties" and "relationships", but that covers a lot of ground and you and your wife both need to be explicit about what that means. Any way you slice it, you're going to have to have that discussion _every_ time you consider going on a date, or put it in your profile. There is no automatic dating pool where you can be sure everyone has the same goals.
Also expect that lonely people may take you up on what you offer thinking they can handle it, when they can't.
Basically, good luck. In spite of the twin dumpster fires of polyamorous dating and online dating I still strongly believe that it's possible for both to work. However, I think that 99 percent of people get into it because they're bored, and think they're owed sexual variety or constant stimulation, they have a dim grasp of possible hurtful consequences, and for married couples especially, that they're a little bored with each other and expect other people to amuse them or fulfill them while not getting back the things they ARE getting from their marriage. As long as these people are all only fucking each other, that's fantastic for them. Everyone is a grown-ass adult and gets to do whatever floats their boat.
But think goddamn carefully about what you want, communicate your expectations clearly, and if there's a possibility your wife could change the rules midstreammake sure the other party knows that. Then, if you can tell someone is doing something they don't want to out of desperation do the decent thing and don't let it carry on long enough to get ugly.
Your comment about your looks and personality make me think you've been trapped in suburbia too long, fwiw. I've been in nerd/geek communities of many particular stripes my whole adult life, and I can tell you that pretty much everyone who wants to get laid will get laid. Very few people go for "traditional" good looks, and almost everyone in these communities is odd and/or awkward. It *is* harder for older women, and men, and it can be harder specifically for men who are married. So I think you may have to work at it a bit, but for different reasons than you think. Even with all that said, if you've got a large enough local community, even that isn't going to slow you down. Smaller cities can be a lot more difficult, and the answer to that is conventions (sci fi/blogging/yoga/polyamorous/whatever you're into that will be attended by a liberal group with high numbers of your preferred genders/sexualities). Meet, communicate, take risks (and by that I mean express interest and ask people out) and you'll find what you want.
posted by liminal_shadows at 3:47 PM on December 31, 2020 [6 favorites]
You may find it rewarding to listen to Dan Savage’s delightful Savage Lovecast podcast. Poly issues come up a lot, and Dan is always humane and reasonable and conveys his beautiful open minded world view in a wonderfully entertaining way.
posted by sumiami at 7:57 PM on December 31, 2020
posted by sumiami at 7:57 PM on December 31, 2020
Dan is always humane and reasonable
I, and many other women, would disagree with this statement. I used to read a lot of Dan Savage but his misogyny and aggressively anti-monogomy, sex-above-all-things stance really put me off. Don't get me wrong he did good things bringing poly to the mainstream but he does not have a beautiful open mind.
posted by stillnocturnal at 7:20 AM on January 1, 2021 [15 favorites]
I, and many other women, would disagree with this statement. I used to read a lot of Dan Savage but his misogyny and aggressively anti-monogomy, sex-above-all-things stance really put me off. Don't get me wrong he did good things bringing poly to the mainstream but he does not have a beautiful open mind.
posted by stillnocturnal at 7:20 AM on January 1, 2021 [15 favorites]
If you do decide to pursue online dating, please ensure you include the fact that you are married. I am on OkCupid and there are tons of poly people on there. You can search for other poly people. On Bumble perhaps it is tougher to disclose? (I’m not sure. Perhaps I am just interacting with people who chose not to.)
In the written part of your profile, please make it very clear what you are looking for and what you can offer a partner. I’m hoping it will save you and others time and hassle in the long run.
I have a feeling you’ll connect with somebody great. Good luck!
posted by Juniper Toast at 8:47 AM on January 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
In the written part of your profile, please make it very clear what you are looking for and what you can offer a partner. I’m hoping it will save you and others time and hassle in the long run.
I have a feeling you’ll connect with somebody great. Good luck!
posted by Juniper Toast at 8:47 AM on January 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I, and many other women, would disagree with this statement. I used to read a lot of Dan Savage but his misogyny and aggressively anti-monogomy, sex-above-all-things stance really put me off. Don't get me wrong he did good things bringing poly to the mainstream but he does not have a beautiful open mind.
Seconded. He's also been frequently nasty or dismissive towards fat people.
I agree that online dating is generally awful at our age (I'm 47). Especially if you look a bit odd, as you say you do. People online suffer from the feeling that there is an unlimited selection, so they just move on the the next profile or message if there's something they see that's less than perfect. Looking a bit odd means you probably won't have the success your wife is having. You need to meet people in a situation where you can get to know each other over time, since presumably your positive attributes are less immediately obvious than your attractive and outgoing wife's.
Also, people lie constantly online, even about stuff that is then VERY obvious in person (height, weight, age). It's a huge waste of time. When you meet someone through a Meetup or volunteering or what have you, there is less lying possible. And when people aren't under pressure to present themselves as a shiny consumer product, but rather they are just there to participate in an activity, they tend to be more honestly themselves.
So, my best suggestion is to meet people by participating in low-pressure fun activities, outdoor and distanced for now (hiking?). You can bring up the topic of poly when it seems appropriate, and explain what flavor of it you are looking for.
Make sure you are ultra clear about what the rules would be. I'm somewhat unsure what you're looking for based on your description. I don't know what a key party is. One big question to address is whether your wife gets veto power about any other relationships you might have. Be ULTRA honest, please, about that, and realize that if the answer is yes, it adds an element of one-sided powerlessness in any relationship you might have.
I'm someone who is open to poly but I've passed on offers for that type of thing. The idea that someone's SO or wife can call the whole thing off whenever they feel slightly uncomfortable is just not acceptable to me. if I'm going to make myself vulnerable and invest in a relationship with someone, I don't want the rug yanked out from under me and not even based on anything I've done or the actual interactions between me and the guy. I've spoken with several other women who feel this way. I think FWB/fuck buddies are actually easier, because people can steel themselves from the beginning against getting too attached. And true poly, rather than primary/secondary, also better and more fulfilling for most people.
Good luck.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 10:37 AM on January 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
Seconded. He's also been frequently nasty or dismissive towards fat people.
I agree that online dating is generally awful at our age (I'm 47). Especially if you look a bit odd, as you say you do. People online suffer from the feeling that there is an unlimited selection, so they just move on the the next profile or message if there's something they see that's less than perfect. Looking a bit odd means you probably won't have the success your wife is having. You need to meet people in a situation where you can get to know each other over time, since presumably your positive attributes are less immediately obvious than your attractive and outgoing wife's.
Also, people lie constantly online, even about stuff that is then VERY obvious in person (height, weight, age). It's a huge waste of time. When you meet someone through a Meetup or volunteering or what have you, there is less lying possible. And when people aren't under pressure to present themselves as a shiny consumer product, but rather they are just there to participate in an activity, they tend to be more honestly themselves.
So, my best suggestion is to meet people by participating in low-pressure fun activities, outdoor and distanced for now (hiking?). You can bring up the topic of poly when it seems appropriate, and explain what flavor of it you are looking for.
Make sure you are ultra clear about what the rules would be. I'm somewhat unsure what you're looking for based on your description. I don't know what a key party is. One big question to address is whether your wife gets veto power about any other relationships you might have. Be ULTRA honest, please, about that, and realize that if the answer is yes, it adds an element of one-sided powerlessness in any relationship you might have.
I'm someone who is open to poly but I've passed on offers for that type of thing. The idea that someone's SO or wife can call the whole thing off whenever they feel slightly uncomfortable is just not acceptable to me. if I'm going to make myself vulnerable and invest in a relationship with someone, I don't want the rug yanked out from under me and not even based on anything I've done or the actual interactions between me and the guy. I've spoken with several other women who feel this way. I think FWB/fuck buddies are actually easier, because people can steel themselves from the beginning against getting too attached. And true poly, rather than primary/secondary, also better and more fulfilling for most people.
Good luck.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 10:37 AM on January 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
In my area, in addition to groups explicitly focused on polyamory, larger than average percentages of nonmonogamous people tend to be found in the kink, Goth, gamer, roller derby, and sci-fi communities.
I used to find online dating effective but I no longer do, both because its mechanisms have changed (swiping instead of searching) and because I'm older. It still makes sense to have a profile out there though just in case.
posted by metasarah at 1:54 PM on January 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
I used to find online dating effective but I no longer do, both because its mechanisms have changed (swiping instead of searching) and because I'm older. It still makes sense to have a profile out there though just in case.
posted by metasarah at 1:54 PM on January 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by yarntheory at 8:50 AM on December 31, 2020 [6 favorites]