It's a slightly uncomfortable day in the neighbourhood
December 13, 2015 3:30 PM Subscribe
There's a guy in my area who isn't fully connected with consensus reality, for whom it seems my presence is a bother in ways that are upsetting for both of us, I think. What's the best way for me to a) not set him off and b) go about my business more comfortably?
The content of the ranting is around race relations; God, auras, and other supernatural forces; and gender. E.g., I am alternately an "angel" or a "white devil" he believes is set on "tempting" him or "destroying the order of the universe". He doesn't like my red scarf, either, that's for sure, or the colour red in general - it's unclear whether the scarf is the main devil signifier to him, or if it's my race or gender or both combined - considering replacing the scarf with something else, maybe that will make a difference.
He basically rants at me directly in a hostile manner, and has followed me closely down the street and into shops to do this (both seeking me out and shielding his eyes from me when facing me, coming up right behind me otherwise).
I run into him 4-5 x a week, some weeks, and not at all in others. This week it's been more frequent, for some reason. I don't know if he even remembers that it's me every time, but this is how he's consistently behaved in my presence - basically every time we're both on the street, he clocks in on me and starts.
I usually sort of walk a bit faster or cross the street, and that's usually been fine. At the moment I can't walk very fast at all, though, and it's augmented in frequency a bit lately (his following me into the shops). I live right across the street from a particular corner shop, and go there on a daily basis (cheapest for some routine buys), and I guess I'm wondering whether he might start making the connection between our interactions at different times (if he hasn't) and where I live, and I'd probably not like to have this be a more regular issue.
I'm sympathetic, and I don't think he's actually physically dangerous, but it is unsettling and doesn't feel great to have a stranger focus hostility directly at you when you're walking around. I get that he's worked up by these encounters, too.
I'll try switching my scarf. If that doesn't work, what might be some good ways to deal with it?
(I don't think he's likely to be physically violent, and I'm not keen on getting police involved, because he's sort of just being himself, they don't have a great track record with people with mental health issues [or people of his race], and also more selfishly, because if I got him into a bad scenario, I'd worry things might be even more upsetting for me in the future.)
The content of the ranting is around race relations; God, auras, and other supernatural forces; and gender. E.g., I am alternately an "angel" or a "white devil" he believes is set on "tempting" him or "destroying the order of the universe". He doesn't like my red scarf, either, that's for sure, or the colour red in general - it's unclear whether the scarf is the main devil signifier to him, or if it's my race or gender or both combined - considering replacing the scarf with something else, maybe that will make a difference.
He basically rants at me directly in a hostile manner, and has followed me closely down the street and into shops to do this (both seeking me out and shielding his eyes from me when facing me, coming up right behind me otherwise).
I run into him 4-5 x a week, some weeks, and not at all in others. This week it's been more frequent, for some reason. I don't know if he even remembers that it's me every time, but this is how he's consistently behaved in my presence - basically every time we're both on the street, he clocks in on me and starts.
I usually sort of walk a bit faster or cross the street, and that's usually been fine. At the moment I can't walk very fast at all, though, and it's augmented in frequency a bit lately (his following me into the shops). I live right across the street from a particular corner shop, and go there on a daily basis (cheapest for some routine buys), and I guess I'm wondering whether he might start making the connection between our interactions at different times (if he hasn't) and where I live, and I'd probably not like to have this be a more regular issue.
I'm sympathetic, and I don't think he's actually physically dangerous, but it is unsettling and doesn't feel great to have a stranger focus hostility directly at you when you're walking around. I get that he's worked up by these encounters, too.
I'll try switching my scarf. If that doesn't work, what might be some good ways to deal with it?
(I don't think he's likely to be physically violent, and I'm not keen on getting police involved, because he's sort of just being himself, they don't have a great track record with people with mental health issues [or people of his race], and also more selfishly, because if I got him into a bad scenario, I'd worry things might be even more upsetting for me in the future.)
Best answer: sometimes the shop owners / workers will handle people like this. is there any way you can get them involved, if you're a regular customer? they might be able to stop him from following you inside (although i'm wondering why they haven't already).
posted by andrewcooke at 3:47 PM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by andrewcooke at 3:47 PM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: How do your neighbors or the shop keepers react to all this? I can't imagine any business being happy about this guy accosting a customer such as yourself.
Does anyone know the man? Have you even discussed this with your neighbors or the shopkeepers? Is this a case of "Old Bob does this all the time" or is it more like "Old Bob's never acted like this before"?
IMHO, I think the authorities should visit the guy and evaluate the situation. He obviously needs help.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:50 PM on December 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Does anyone know the man? Have you even discussed this with your neighbors or the shopkeepers? Is this a case of "Old Bob does this all the time" or is it more like "Old Bob's never acted like this before"?
IMHO, I think the authorities should visit the guy and evaluate the situation. He obviously needs help.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:50 PM on December 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
If you don't want to call the police, take self defense classes and carry pepper spray. Take his picture too. Have you not told any of the shops that he's following you?
I think you need to concentrate more on your own safety than on his triggers and/or well-being. I have a neighbor who was stabbed with a ball-point pen by a local street person who decided he didn't like her standing at the same stop light.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:51 PM on December 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think you need to concentrate more on your own safety than on his triggers and/or well-being. I have a neighbor who was stabbed with a ball-point pen by a local street person who decided he didn't like her standing at the same stop light.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:51 PM on December 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this. You may have a local group that works directly with people who for whatever reason are on the streets; it's very possible he's a known quantity and they will want to know that he's acting out right now. Every time I've let them know about someone who's causing concern, they've known exactly who I meant. Sometimes a social worker comes around, other times the police (which makes me think they are making an informed choice.)
posted by SMPA at 3:53 PM on December 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by SMPA at 3:53 PM on December 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
[i respect your attitude here and hope i would do the same, and not give in to fear. but, not a woman, so what do i know?]
posted by andrewcooke at 3:53 PM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by andrewcooke at 3:53 PM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I usually sort of walk a bit faster or cross the street, and that's usually been fine.
I wouldn't do that. It signals that you feel threatened. One way to get killed by a predator is to run away. It incites a chase instinct.
When I was in downtown San Diego, we had really good results from feeding some of the crazier, more problematic people on the street. I have written a college psych paper on this as well where I used the example in the paper of feeding the friends of my husband in Germany. Every last one of those guys come to our apartment to see me personally and to say a tearful goodbye to me when they got orders sending them elsewhere. (They were not there to see the husband as he had already attended their going away party in the barracks, someplace a woman could not go at that time and I wasn't their friend anyway so I doubt I would have been invited). Food is a powerful human bonding agent. In World War 1, supposedly some guy that crawled across the fields to take a guy live for questioning or whatever turned around and left when the intended victim gave him food.
In downtown San Diego, we often ate in a public park frequented by other homeless people and we would give away our hot or cold leftovers that weren't going to keep anyway. One woman that my oldest son still refers to as "the crazy lady" used to rant loudly, apparently reliving some kind of trauma. It was disturbing to be around her. After we fed her a few times, her loud rantings tapered off substantially. My son found her deranged rantings really upsetting, so he was happy to hear her coping better and screaming and cussing less around the downtown area.
Another incident involved a homeless drug pusher. He had been clearly trying to size us up and scope us out prior to this incident. He showed up and was trying to talk about the joys of marijuana. I told him I was allergic. He was clearly and obviously high already. He dismissed my remarks with some comment about me "just being closed-minded" and continued on with his goal of talking to us about the positives of drug use. My oldest son decided we were done eating, shoved the rest of our pizza at him and we hurriedly left. The guy never bothered us again.
If you try this, you do not want to be chatty. Just shove food at him and keep walking. Make it very clear that you aren't interested in engaging him socially.
It is a way to make someone feel powerfully cared for/about. It is life sustaining. It is psychologically powerful. But make sure you do not give him any reason whatsoever to think you want to socialize or he may latch onto like his New Best Friend, and harangue you worse with an expectation that you are supposed to be endlessly giving while he does nothing for you.
If he follows you into a store and rants, maybe grab some food item off a shelf and say "Would you like a candy bar?" as normally as you can humanly manage (to interrupt his rantings -- this worked well with "the crazy lady" when she was talking to herself and my son would walk up to her and say very normally "Would you like some potato wedges and milk?" completely ignoring the deranged behavior), buy him the candy bar, hand it to him and LEAVE. Do not engage him socially. Ignore him and walk away after handing him a food item.
The drug pusher didn't bother us again in part because we shoved food at him and hurried off in a clear "here doggie -- have some steak!" kind of manner. It made it clear we weren't trouble for this man, we cared enough about his welfare to feed him, but we were also NOT his friends and didn't want to bond socially. He stopped hassling us. He stopped scoping us out like intended victims. He also did not latch onto us like we were his new best friends, which would have been incredibly problematic.
In other cases, we did have a few people try to latch onto us like their new best friend and act like we were now supposed to feed them routinely because we gave them some leftovers. A few times, we had to work at making that stop.
So if you try giving him food to diffuse the situation, hand it to him and walk away. Do not engage him socially. Do not hurry away. Do not signal in any way that you are scared. But make it very clear you aren't talking with him either.
posted by Michele in California at 3:55 PM on December 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
I wouldn't do that. It signals that you feel threatened. One way to get killed by a predator is to run away. It incites a chase instinct.
When I was in downtown San Diego, we had really good results from feeding some of the crazier, more problematic people on the street. I have written a college psych paper on this as well where I used the example in the paper of feeding the friends of my husband in Germany. Every last one of those guys come to our apartment to see me personally and to say a tearful goodbye to me when they got orders sending them elsewhere. (They were not there to see the husband as he had already attended their going away party in the barracks, someplace a woman could not go at that time and I wasn't their friend anyway so I doubt I would have been invited). Food is a powerful human bonding agent. In World War 1, supposedly some guy that crawled across the fields to take a guy live for questioning or whatever turned around and left when the intended victim gave him food.
In downtown San Diego, we often ate in a public park frequented by other homeless people and we would give away our hot or cold leftovers that weren't going to keep anyway. One woman that my oldest son still refers to as "the crazy lady" used to rant loudly, apparently reliving some kind of trauma. It was disturbing to be around her. After we fed her a few times, her loud rantings tapered off substantially. My son found her deranged rantings really upsetting, so he was happy to hear her coping better and screaming and cussing less around the downtown area.
Another incident involved a homeless drug pusher. He had been clearly trying to size us up and scope us out prior to this incident. He showed up and was trying to talk about the joys of marijuana. I told him I was allergic. He was clearly and obviously high already. He dismissed my remarks with some comment about me "just being closed-minded" and continued on with his goal of talking to us about the positives of drug use. My oldest son decided we were done eating, shoved the rest of our pizza at him and we hurriedly left. The guy never bothered us again.
If you try this, you do not want to be chatty. Just shove food at him and keep walking. Make it very clear that you aren't interested in engaging him socially.
It is a way to make someone feel powerfully cared for/about. It is life sustaining. It is psychologically powerful. But make sure you do not give him any reason whatsoever to think you want to socialize or he may latch onto like his New Best Friend, and harangue you worse with an expectation that you are supposed to be endlessly giving while he does nothing for you.
If he follows you into a store and rants, maybe grab some food item off a shelf and say "Would you like a candy bar?" as normally as you can humanly manage (to interrupt his rantings -- this worked well with "the crazy lady" when she was talking to herself and my son would walk up to her and say very normally "Would you like some potato wedges and milk?" completely ignoring the deranged behavior), buy him the candy bar, hand it to him and LEAVE. Do not engage him socially. Ignore him and walk away after handing him a food item.
The drug pusher didn't bother us again in part because we shoved food at him and hurried off in a clear "here doggie -- have some steak!" kind of manner. It made it clear we weren't trouble for this man, we cared enough about his welfare to feed him, but we were also NOT his friends and didn't want to bond socially. He stopped hassling us. He stopped scoping us out like intended victims. He also did not latch onto us like we were his new best friends, which would have been incredibly problematic.
In other cases, we did have a few people try to latch onto us like their new best friend and act like we were now supposed to feed them routinely because we gave them some leftovers. A few times, we had to work at making that stop.
So if you try giving him food to diffuse the situation, hand it to him and walk away. Do not engage him socially. Do not hurry away. Do not signal in any way that you are scared. But make it very clear you aren't talking with him either.
posted by Michele in California at 3:55 PM on December 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
[the police] don't have a great track record with people with mental health issues
That's probably true, and you might think about the reason why. It's not because police officers are inherently callous jerks. It is because they aren't properly trained. Dealing with mentally unstable people—or people whom, as you say, aren't fully connected with consensus reality (which isn't a bad way to phrase it)—is something that professionals train to be able to do safely and constructively. You are absolutely correct that we, as a society, mostly fail to provide this training to patrol officers.
However, in your context, this raises the next question: Are you properly trained? Because if not, there's an unavoidable degree of irony and hubris to saying, "The police won't deal with him properly. I got this!"
You repeated that you don't think this person is physically violent. Having raised the question of whether you're competent to make that analysis, I'd separately say this: that is a very common sentiment among acquaintances of people who have been charged with violent crimes. Among friends and family, less so. But casual acquaintances, yes. "He never seemed capable of that." Et cetera. When professionals look for predictors, we look at behaviors—for example, "rants at me directly in a hostile manner," "has followed me closely down the street and into shops," "coming up right behind me," "it's been more frequent"—more reliably than the unrefined instincts of acquaintances.
Food for thought. You asked for some good ways to deal with it: I would spend more time thinking about your safety and less time on his side of the street, so to speak. Good luck.
posted by cribcage at 4:00 PM on December 13, 2015 [26 favorites]
That's probably true, and you might think about the reason why. It's not because police officers are inherently callous jerks. It is because they aren't properly trained. Dealing with mentally unstable people—or people whom, as you say, aren't fully connected with consensus reality (which isn't a bad way to phrase it)—is something that professionals train to be able to do safely and constructively. You are absolutely correct that we, as a society, mostly fail to provide this training to patrol officers.
However, in your context, this raises the next question: Are you properly trained? Because if not, there's an unavoidable degree of irony and hubris to saying, "The police won't deal with him properly. I got this!"
You repeated that you don't think this person is physically violent. Having raised the question of whether you're competent to make that analysis, I'd separately say this: that is a very common sentiment among acquaintances of people who have been charged with violent crimes. Among friends and family, less so. But casual acquaintances, yes. "He never seemed capable of that." Et cetera. When professionals look for predictors, we look at behaviors—for example, "rants at me directly in a hostile manner," "has followed me closely down the street and into shops," "coming up right behind me," "it's been more frequent"—more reliably than the unrefined instincts of acquaintances.
Food for thought. You asked for some good ways to deal with it: I would spend more time thinking about your safety and less time on his side of the street, so to speak. Good luck.
posted by cribcage at 4:00 PM on December 13, 2015 [26 favorites]
Response by poster: andrewcooke & Thorzdad: English isn't the first language of the workers at the places this has happened in (or of most of the store owners and clerks in my area), and I don't think they fully understand what he's talking about (or necessarily what is going on); once he's in the shop, he stands near the person at the counter and talks to them about me while facing me - as if he's talking to them about the distress I've caused him. I, meanwhile, go to the other end of the shop and wait. The owners/workers do know him, they basically let him talk himself out, which he eventually does. On the actual street, he stays closer to me.
I don't know why I haven't mentioned anything to the shopkeepers… I feel a little embarrassed for feeling unsettled, for one. Also because I don't disagree with some of the things he's more generally angry about :/ But I will mention it to them next time it happens.
I don't know about talking to him, MiC, he gets agitated as soon as he sees me.
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:14 PM on December 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't know why I haven't mentioned anything to the shopkeepers… I feel a little embarrassed for feeling unsettled, for one. Also because I don't disagree with some of the things he's more generally angry about :/ But I will mention it to them next time it happens.
I don't know about talking to him, MiC, he gets agitated as soon as he sees me.
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:14 PM on December 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I.e. what happens is: he sees me on the street, follows me; if I go into a store, he follows me in and stops at the counter, rants to the shopkeepers, I sort of hide, he goes away. If on the street, he follows me until I lose him by walking fast (which I can't do right now). That's also why I don't think he's dangerous.
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:18 PM on December 13, 2015
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:18 PM on December 13, 2015
Best answer: I don't know where you live, but if you're in a place with any sort of mental-health services, you might Google for agencies or hotline numbers ("[area/town name] mental health" or "[area/town name] behavioral health"), and those places may be able to direct you to someone who can help.
posted by jaguar at 4:20 PM on December 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 4:20 PM on December 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Which is to say, if he's following people and ranting, someone's likely going to get the police involved at some point. If you're worried about that happening, getting social workers or other mental-health professionals involved first might help with a better outcome.
posted by jaguar at 4:22 PM on December 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 4:22 PM on December 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Best answer: How long has he been around? Do you think if you make yourself scarce for a week or two he might forget about you, move on? His internal story might change by then. I have been friends with homeless and mentally ill people, so I absolutely get where you are coming from. But, still, the fixating on you might intensify, and because of that, I think you need to take some sort of action, and not really take that risk. Are there any mental health or homeless services that you could contact to help him? (I'm not sure why I am assuming he's homeless, if not, he may have family you could contact.)
posted by Vaike at 4:24 PM on December 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Vaike at 4:24 PM on December 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: (I mean I don't disagree that he should be angry about some of the things he's angry about. I'll contact social services in my area, I think, thanks guys.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:29 PM on December 13, 2015
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:29 PM on December 13, 2015
I would not buy this person to food to encourage the notion on anyone's part that you have an established relationship.
Is any part of this influenced by an impression that you ought not to be afraid of him or embarrassed by your fear? Please don't be, this sounds legit scary. I would definitely let the shopkeepers know what's going on, and definitely make clear that you don't know the man. I've been in this situation several times before, and one of the biggest hurdles is that bystanders think it's some sort of domestic thing. I'm a minority, so your mileage may vary if you're white on that, though in my experience even an obvious difference in class/mental health status/sobriety/age doesn't affect the "oh this is some 'domestic' problem" issue with bystanders.
posted by sweetkid at 4:46 PM on December 13, 2015 [18 favorites]
Is any part of this influenced by an impression that you ought not to be afraid of him or embarrassed by your fear? Please don't be, this sounds legit scary. I would definitely let the shopkeepers know what's going on, and definitely make clear that you don't know the man. I've been in this situation several times before, and one of the biggest hurdles is that bystanders think it's some sort of domestic thing. I'm a minority, so your mileage may vary if you're white on that, though in my experience even an obvious difference in class/mental health status/sobriety/age doesn't affect the "oh this is some 'domestic' problem" issue with bystanders.
posted by sweetkid at 4:46 PM on December 13, 2015 [18 favorites]
I'm sorry, this sounds really uncomfortable! I've been in a similar situation before although it was someone who would pass by my house when I was on the porch or working in the garden: at first it started out friendly, when I said hi and we had a little chit-chat. Then it started getting weird with sexual harassment. I was often alone; he was sometimes with a friend who didn't say anything but was clearly uncomfortable about it all. It sucks because I knew I had wanted to be friendly with him like everyone else who walks by. I knew he had it hard in life and surely dealt with a lot of racism on an ongoing basis. However, my concerns were not motivated by race but rather respect: sexual harassment is not OK, and not something anyone should have to put up with for any reason.
The next time it started happening, I politely-but-firmly told him that I really respected him and also expected to be treated with respect; that I'd be happy to have friendly conversations but I would not talk to him if things got inappropriate from then on. He acted like he understood but a few days later was making inappropriate comments after I said a friendly hello. So I started ignoring him and walked into my front door, and I've been ignoring him ever since. Whenever I saw him coming, I'd walk inside. My male partner moved in with me a few years ago and that may have helped, too, although I really don't know. (FWIW, he's a person of color himself: he's never tried talking to the man nor has the man ever tried talking to him.)
I don't know if any of this will help you with your situation but I can say that ignoring can be the most powerful tool if a person is looking for a reaction. You don't owe this man anything, not a reason or even acknowledgement: if you want to help others in a similar situation, you can volunteer elsewhere with people who will respect you just like you respect them. I think reaching out to shop owners, local resources and more is great; however, if all else fails, ignoring him may help. Plus, if he gets loud and intrusive, bystanders will be more likely to notice (and hopefully intervene.) If you feel really threatened at some point, you can call the police; I understand your hesitation but, again, his inappropriate behavior is not your responsibility, it's his. I wish you the best of luck.
posted by smorgasbord at 5:48 PM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
The next time it started happening, I politely-but-firmly told him that I really respected him and also expected to be treated with respect; that I'd be happy to have friendly conversations but I would not talk to him if things got inappropriate from then on. He acted like he understood but a few days later was making inappropriate comments after I said a friendly hello. So I started ignoring him and walked into my front door, and I've been ignoring him ever since. Whenever I saw him coming, I'd walk inside. My male partner moved in with me a few years ago and that may have helped, too, although I really don't know. (FWIW, he's a person of color himself: he's never tried talking to the man nor has the man ever tried talking to him.)
I don't know if any of this will help you with your situation but I can say that ignoring can be the most powerful tool if a person is looking for a reaction. You don't owe this man anything, not a reason or even acknowledgement: if you want to help others in a similar situation, you can volunteer elsewhere with people who will respect you just like you respect them. I think reaching out to shop owners, local resources and more is great; however, if all else fails, ignoring him may help. Plus, if he gets loud and intrusive, bystanders will be more likely to notice (and hopefully intervene.) If you feel really threatened at some point, you can call the police; I understand your hesitation but, again, his inappropriate behavior is not your responsibility, it's his. I wish you the best of luck.
posted by smorgasbord at 5:48 PM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'd get a restraining order and read The Gift of Fear.
posted by Slinga at 6:05 PM on December 13, 2015
posted by Slinga at 6:05 PM on December 13, 2015
Agree with odinsdream. I think you're allowing some idea of niceness to cause you to come into harm's way. You should call the police the next time (and every time) he harasses you.
If this bothers your conscience, think about all of the other people you are sparing from harassment and fear.
posted by 3491again at 6:19 PM on December 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
If this bothers your conscience, think about all of the other people you are sparing from harassment and fear.
posted by 3491again at 6:19 PM on December 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Is any part of this influenced by an impression that you ought not to be afraid of him or embarrassed by your fear?
I guess, yeah. I'm not mentally ill (or not in the way he is; I've experienced anxiety and depression, but not delusion) and I've been pretty lucky in a lot of ways he probably hasn't been. It's a little scary, yes. But (although it's true I'm not trained), I really don't think he'd do anything, it's just that he's been focusing his delusions and anger on me, and it's uncomfortable. He's not a young guy or anything, maybe 50s, 60s.
one of the biggest hurdles is that bystanders think it's some sort of domestic thing.
That's happened to me with other people (white or not, depending on other factors I think, too, though I do think race is a MMV thing in this sort of thing :/) but not with him. I think between race, class, and age differences, and probably most critically the fact that his behaviour is obviously out there (like very clearly so), this isn't a mistake a bystander might make, in this case.
Sorry this is something you've also dealt with a lot.
How long has he been around?
I first noticed him last spring.
Actually, re frequency/level of concern: I'm staying close to home because of an injury, and have been only going to places within a very short walking distance (2-3 minutes, max), at times I normally wouldn't, a little more often than usual. (Because I'm bored and those short walks every now and then help break things up.)
I can't out-walk him atm, which is what I'd typically do, so I'm ducking into shops, and so he's going in. So it may be that this is happening more often because of increased opportunity and contact, rather than an increase in intensity, for him, or some narrative he's building... (I'm thinking he may be in and out of the area for his own reasons, at other times.)
Do you think if you make yourself scarce for a week or two he might forget about you, move on? His internal story might change by then.
Maybe?? If the real reason this is happening more often is that I'm just in his face all the time, lately? I could change my patterns for a bit or stay with family until this disconnects for him. (And will talk to shopkeepers, and social services if necessary.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:52 PM on December 13, 2015
I guess, yeah. I'm not mentally ill (or not in the way he is; I've experienced anxiety and depression, but not delusion) and I've been pretty lucky in a lot of ways he probably hasn't been. It's a little scary, yes. But (although it's true I'm not trained), I really don't think he'd do anything, it's just that he's been focusing his delusions and anger on me, and it's uncomfortable. He's not a young guy or anything, maybe 50s, 60s.
one of the biggest hurdles is that bystanders think it's some sort of domestic thing.
That's happened to me with other people (white or not, depending on other factors I think, too, though I do think race is a MMV thing in this sort of thing :/) but not with him. I think between race, class, and age differences, and probably most critically the fact that his behaviour is obviously out there (like very clearly so), this isn't a mistake a bystander might make, in this case.
Sorry this is something you've also dealt with a lot.
How long has he been around?
I first noticed him last spring.
Actually, re frequency/level of concern: I'm staying close to home because of an injury, and have been only going to places within a very short walking distance (2-3 minutes, max), at times I normally wouldn't, a little more often than usual. (Because I'm bored and those short walks every now and then help break things up.)
I can't out-walk him atm, which is what I'd typically do, so I'm ducking into shops, and so he's going in. So it may be that this is happening more often because of increased opportunity and contact, rather than an increase in intensity, for him, or some narrative he's building... (I'm thinking he may be in and out of the area for his own reasons, at other times.)
Do you think if you make yourself scarce for a week or two he might forget about you, move on? His internal story might change by then.
Maybe?? If the real reason this is happening more often is that I'm just in his face all the time, lately? I could change my patterns for a bit or stay with family until this disconnects for him. (And will talk to shopkeepers, and social services if necessary.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:52 PM on December 13, 2015
Ugh. I'm dealing with a VERY similar situation myself right now. The only reason i haven't called the police is because i've dealt with them in similar situations in the past and they don't do anything(at least in my city).
Do not do anything that it makes it seem like you have an established relationship. Do not do anything "compassionate" or give him anything, it will only reinforce that he can get a response/rise out of you or get you to respond to him.
Ok, so i worked for YEARS at a fast food place next to a few motels and we constantly had customers and harassing hangers on that were homeless, travelers, transients, etc. I've been assaulted by homeless people over food. I've also lived in a couple areas of town that at the time, had large homeless populations. I live in an area like that now.
I strongly believe that any direct engagement with this person will escalate the situation. Anything you say, anything you give to him. And sadly, although i bristled at it at first, i think reacting in any way(like crossing the street after he notices you or moving away more quickly, even though that is what you SHOULD do to keep yourself safe and get the hell away from him) will also be noticed and escalate it.
As soon as he starts following you, call the fucking police. Call them EVERY TIME it happens.
Please do not feel bad about them not being "compassionate" and martyr yourself to feel good about taking care of someone with mental health issues. This stuff can get dangerous in a split second. One second i was handing a loud yelling corner guy like this a burger, the next second i had a fucking black eye because he didn't like what was on the burger and my boss was trying to fight him off.
Your safety matters more than making some point about not letting someone get ground up by the system. And if he's acting like this, he's going to be in the system sooner or later anyways. Please don't let people on here make you feel bad for protecting yourself. I've heard a lot of that stuff in real life, and wasn't surprised to see it on here.
Following you, and especially following you in to places is where it crosses the line from "stressful and scary yelling street person" to "active threat" on my defcon chart. If he follows you into a store, stay in the store and call the cops. Go behind the counter while you wait for the cops if they'll let you(I've had to do this for more than one person, as the behind the counter person, sigh)
An aside, but i've BEEN homeless. For an extended period of time, even. I'm not just some jaded callous asshole. Protect yourself and don't feel bad about it.
posted by emptythought at 8:06 PM on December 13, 2015 [24 favorites]
Do not do anything that it makes it seem like you have an established relationship. Do not do anything "compassionate" or give him anything, it will only reinforce that he can get a response/rise out of you or get you to respond to him.
Ok, so i worked for YEARS at a fast food place next to a few motels and we constantly had customers and harassing hangers on that were homeless, travelers, transients, etc. I've been assaulted by homeless people over food. I've also lived in a couple areas of town that at the time, had large homeless populations. I live in an area like that now.
I strongly believe that any direct engagement with this person will escalate the situation. Anything you say, anything you give to him. And sadly, although i bristled at it at first, i think reacting in any way(like crossing the street after he notices you or moving away more quickly, even though that is what you SHOULD do to keep yourself safe and get the hell away from him) will also be noticed and escalate it.
As soon as he starts following you, call the fucking police. Call them EVERY TIME it happens.
Please do not feel bad about them not being "compassionate" and martyr yourself to feel good about taking care of someone with mental health issues. This stuff can get dangerous in a split second. One second i was handing a loud yelling corner guy like this a burger, the next second i had a fucking black eye because he didn't like what was on the burger and my boss was trying to fight him off.
Your safety matters more than making some point about not letting someone get ground up by the system. And if he's acting like this, he's going to be in the system sooner or later anyways. Please don't let people on here make you feel bad for protecting yourself. I've heard a lot of that stuff in real life, and wasn't surprised to see it on here.
Following you, and especially following you in to places is where it crosses the line from "stressful and scary yelling street person" to "active threat" on my defcon chart. If he follows you into a store, stay in the store and call the cops. Go behind the counter while you wait for the cops if they'll let you(I've had to do this for more than one person, as the behind the counter person, sigh)
An aside, but i've BEEN homeless. For an extended period of time, even. I'm not just some jaded callous asshole. Protect yourself and don't feel bad about it.
posted by emptythought at 8:06 PM on December 13, 2015 [24 favorites]
Response by poster: Just to explain why I haven't called the police (apart from not feeling I'm in real danger) - mental health services and shelters don't meet demand, unfortunately, so there are lots of people in the area who talk to themselves etc., that's not unusual, and it's not usually *hugely* problematic. I've just never been the consistent focus of this particular kind of behaviour. Also have never had any seriously worrying problem with anyone - so no personal experience in dealing with police. It's not so much about niceness, although I do think criminalization of people with mental illness is wrong; there have been a few incidents in recent years in which people with mental illnesses, who were perceived as aggressive, were actually killed by police (who escalated things, instead of chilling them out).
I asked in case someone might have a clue about the kind of thing this man's dealing with and have thoughts on how to behave around him - not sure why it didn't occur to me to get in touch with social services (!) - but! answers and kind thoughts received, and question resolved, thanks!
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:35 AM on December 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I asked in case someone might have a clue about the kind of thing this man's dealing with and have thoughts on how to behave around him - not sure why it didn't occur to me to get in touch with social services (!) - but! answers and kind thoughts received, and question resolved, thanks!
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:35 AM on December 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
You need to call the non-emergency police line and tell them about what you've been dealing with. The person at the other end may be able to give you direction for what to do in the future. I life to think I am very sympathetic when it comes to mental illness, but this guy isn't just talking to himself on the street. He's following you places, over and over again and based on what you've described here, you're not mobile enough to outpace him at the moment. That's dangerous. All it takes is one moment of violence and you could end up seriously hurt.
You need to report this behavior and find out how you report future behavior. I'm sad there isn't more resources for him and many others who are like him. He likely needs help far beyond what is available for him and prison isn't a solution, but at the same time, you don't know if this situation will escalate and you should put your safety as number one.
posted by GilvearSt at 6:52 AM on December 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
You need to report this behavior and find out how you report future behavior. I'm sad there isn't more resources for him and many others who are like him. He likely needs help far beyond what is available for him and prison isn't a solution, but at the same time, you don't know if this situation will escalate and you should put your safety as number one.
posted by GilvearSt at 6:52 AM on December 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I asked in case someone might have a clue about the kind of thing this man's dealing with and have thoughts on how to behave around him - not sure why it didn't occur to me to get in touch with social services (!)
I work with people with schizophrenia, which is likely at least part (quite possibly exacerbated by substance use) of what this man is dealing with (though of course I cannot diagnose people online), and I am appalled at how stigmatized schizophrenia is, and this behavior would frighten me. There is no magic response you can make or behavior you can change that will guarantee he'll stop reacting to you, because he's likely not reacting to you as much as he's reacting to the voices he's hearing in his head, and no one but he can hear those so it's impossible to know what they're saying. I absolutely do not encourage anyone to stigmatize others based on a (not even official) diagnosis, but I would be worried for my safety based solely on his behaviors -- targeting you, having seemingly elaborate delusions about you, seemingly responding to auditory hallucinations about you, following you, expressing anger at you. That certainly doesn't mean he's going to hurt you, but it does mean that he's unpredictable and focused on you. You said you didn't want to call the police, and I do think that social services will be more helpful long-term, but if it were me, calling the police would be very high on my list of possible responses, and I would make sure I was always at least two-arm's lengths away from him at all times and that I didn't allow him to block me into rooms or stores (and it sounds like he's already doing that, if he's standing at the entrance and you're having to back into places).
posted by jaguar at 7:38 AM on December 14, 2015 [21 favorites]
I work with people with schizophrenia, which is likely at least part (quite possibly exacerbated by substance use) of what this man is dealing with (though of course I cannot diagnose people online), and I am appalled at how stigmatized schizophrenia is, and this behavior would frighten me. There is no magic response you can make or behavior you can change that will guarantee he'll stop reacting to you, because he's likely not reacting to you as much as he's reacting to the voices he's hearing in his head, and no one but he can hear those so it's impossible to know what they're saying. I absolutely do not encourage anyone to stigmatize others based on a (not even official) diagnosis, but I would be worried for my safety based solely on his behaviors -- targeting you, having seemingly elaborate delusions about you, seemingly responding to auditory hallucinations about you, following you, expressing anger at you. That certainly doesn't mean he's going to hurt you, but it does mean that he's unpredictable and focused on you. You said you didn't want to call the police, and I do think that social services will be more helpful long-term, but if it were me, calling the police would be very high on my list of possible responses, and I would make sure I was always at least two-arm's lengths away from him at all times and that I didn't allow him to block me into rooms or stores (and it sounds like he's already doing that, if he's standing at the entrance and you're having to back into places).
posted by jaguar at 7:38 AM on December 14, 2015 [21 favorites]
> I would spend more time thinking about your safety and less time on his side of the street, so to speak.
I want to heartily second this. You seem very focused on thinking of him in the best possible light and understanding where he's coming from, which is admirable in the abstract but is not (in my opinion) a sensible reaction to his behavior. He is clearly delusional, and although the odds are against his being dangerous, that's not going to be much comfort to you if he attacks you. One of the reasons I left New York is that my wife was being harassed in a very similar way by a schizophrenic guy who lived in our building (and whom she therefore couldn't avoid). Please take care of yourself and let those whose job it is take care of this guy.
posted by languagehat at 8:18 AM on December 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
I want to heartily second this. You seem very focused on thinking of him in the best possible light and understanding where he's coming from, which is admirable in the abstract but is not (in my opinion) a sensible reaction to his behavior. He is clearly delusional, and although the odds are against his being dangerous, that's not going to be much comfort to you if he attacks you. One of the reasons I left New York is that my wife was being harassed in a very similar way by a schizophrenic guy who lived in our building (and whom she therefore couldn't avoid). Please take care of yourself and let those whose job it is take care of this guy.
posted by languagehat at 8:18 AM on December 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yes, this is past the point at which you should be worried about being compassionate, and should instead advocate for your own safety. It's true that the cops often don't know how to deal with the mentally ill, but I am more concerned that you yourself are safe. Call the police when this happens next. Take care of yourself.
posted by fiercecupcake at 3:11 PM on December 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by fiercecupcake at 3:11 PM on December 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Forget your scarf color. He's following you into enclosed locations. Take steps to distance yourself. This is not the time to live and let live.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:38 PM on December 13, 2015 [30 favorites]