Should I buy a Harley?
May 25, 2007 7:58 PM Subscribe
Should I, at 58 years old, with a somewhat complicated history, purchase a new Harley?
The rest of the story.
From the age of about 15, until the age of 40, I rode motorcycles. Starting with a Whizzer motor bike, moving through a number of scooters, off-road bikes, small road bikes, eventually falling in love with an old Honda 360 Scrambler that I owned for a lot of years.
As I grew older I kept around a few small bikes for my sons... they learned to like tooling around the yard, the fields, and eventually the roads.
In 1990 my oldest son was killed in a bike accident, he wasn't at fault (not that it really matters). I sold every bike I owned and hadn't ridden since then. I've always felt responsible for introducing him to bikes....
Flash forward to today... a divorce, a lot of therapy, some realizations that I've spent a lot of time denying my own personhood, and a desire to experience those things that I always enjoyed and denied myself and those things that I never had the nerve to experience.
After a sort of break-through therapy session this past week, and some encouragement from my wife, I gave myself permission to stop by the local Harley dealer....after a lot of talk with a pretty intuitive salesperson and walking around the dealership looking at a hundred bikes or so... the salesperson suggested a test ride and, to my surprise, I took him up on it.
I found myself on a Sportster (a bigger bike than I had ever ridden), heading off down the road.
20 minutes later I was ready to sign on the dotted line..... but had the sense to give myself a day or so to consider this.
Questions... how will this impact on my other son (now successful and living far away), who had a difficult time dealing with his brother's death. Is he going to worry about Dad, or isn't this my problem?
How will I deal with my step sons who might want to ride the bike? Am I going to be responsible for that?
My inclination is to go to the dealer tomorrow and close the deal... I respect the folks here... what do you think?
The rest of the story.
From the age of about 15, until the age of 40, I rode motorcycles. Starting with a Whizzer motor bike, moving through a number of scooters, off-road bikes, small road bikes, eventually falling in love with an old Honda 360 Scrambler that I owned for a lot of years.
As I grew older I kept around a few small bikes for my sons... they learned to like tooling around the yard, the fields, and eventually the roads.
In 1990 my oldest son was killed in a bike accident, he wasn't at fault (not that it really matters). I sold every bike I owned and hadn't ridden since then. I've always felt responsible for introducing him to bikes....
Flash forward to today... a divorce, a lot of therapy, some realizations that I've spent a lot of time denying my own personhood, and a desire to experience those things that I always enjoyed and denied myself and those things that I never had the nerve to experience.
After a sort of break-through therapy session this past week, and some encouragement from my wife, I gave myself permission to stop by the local Harley dealer....after a lot of talk with a pretty intuitive salesperson and walking around the dealership looking at a hundred bikes or so... the salesperson suggested a test ride and, to my surprise, I took him up on it.
I found myself on a Sportster (a bigger bike than I had ever ridden), heading off down the road.
20 minutes later I was ready to sign on the dotted line..... but had the sense to give myself a day or so to consider this.
Questions... how will this impact on my other son (now successful and living far away), who had a difficult time dealing with his brother's death. Is he going to worry about Dad, or isn't this my problem?
How will I deal with my step sons who might want to ride the bike? Am I going to be responsible for that?
My inclination is to go to the dealer tomorrow and close the deal... I respect the folks here... what do you think?
talk to your other son about it....
bikes are dangerous, plain and simple, or at least more dangerous than cars....and please wear a helmet
but it's your decision, it may be a healthy way to finally get over your guilt and all the trauma from losing your son...
you won't be around for ever either, at 58, you might as well enjoy living your life, wouldn't your late son have wanted that?
posted by Salvatorparadise at 8:21 PM on May 25, 2007
bikes are dangerous, plain and simple, or at least more dangerous than cars....and please wear a helmet
but it's your decision, it may be a healthy way to finally get over your guilt and all the trauma from losing your son...
you won't be around for ever either, at 58, you might as well enjoy living your life, wouldn't your late son have wanted that?
posted by Salvatorparadise at 8:21 PM on May 25, 2007
YES! Enough said.
posted by BeaverTerror at 8:36 PM on May 25, 2007
posted by BeaverTerror at 8:36 PM on May 25, 2007
You've had an epiphany, and now it has become Hog Fever, and it's Memorial Day weekend, and there is nice riding weather. I'm thinkin', frankly, nobody is going to talk you out of this. And that's what makes Harley-Davidson dealership franchises bankable.
But in these situations, I've learned to put my wallet up on the mantle for 30 days. Unfed fevers tend to burn away before then, but epiphanies are still epiphanies on the 31st day.
posted by paulsc at 8:50 PM on May 25, 2007 [2 favorites]
But in these situations, I've learned to put my wallet up on the mantle for 30 days. Unfed fevers tend to burn away before then, but epiphanies are still epiphanies on the 31st day.
posted by paulsc at 8:50 PM on May 25, 2007 [2 favorites]
Yes, you should get the bike. You might ask your therapist just to be sure. I think it will be good therapy in a number of ways. Not only will it give you a release, I believe it will help you cope with all that you have been through over the years. The accident was an accident- you should try to move past it. Get on the bike, smile and dedicate your first ride to the good memories of son.
posted by bkeene12 at 8:51 PM on May 25, 2007
posted by bkeene12 at 8:51 PM on May 25, 2007
Best answer: After a sort of break-through therapy session this past week, and some encouragement from my wife, I gave myself permission ...
... and you lived happily ever after.
Go for it. Your family wants you to be happy.
At the risk of misquoting your son's favorite movie:
It is not a question of what a Spartan citizen SHOULD do, nor a husband, nor a king, instead ask yourself, my dearest love, what should a free man do.
posted by frogan at 8:58 PM on May 25, 2007
... and you lived happily ever after.
Go for it. Your family wants you to be happy.
At the risk of misquoting your son's favorite movie:
It is not a question of what a Spartan citizen SHOULD do, nor a husband, nor a king, instead ask yourself, my dearest love, what should a free man do.
posted by frogan at 8:58 PM on May 25, 2007
Other people talked about the emotional side, but there's practicalities too:
I think you should take an Experienced RiderCourse before you hit the road, and wear All The Gear All The Time, and get the bike. A Sportster isn't a big bike -- it's heavy and thus not so fast. It's the "little Harley", after all. Perfect to get riding again on, so you don't need to worry about that "big bike".
And as for your stepsons? If they take a Basic RiderCourse and promise ATGATT too, then they can ride their bikes. After the trouble and expense of course and gear they're not going to want to borrow, and you're not going to want to lend to riders who haven't taken the course and who don't have the gear.
posted by mendel at 9:10 PM on May 25, 2007
I think you should take an Experienced RiderCourse before you hit the road, and wear All The Gear All The Time, and get the bike. A Sportster isn't a big bike -- it's heavy and thus not so fast. It's the "little Harley", after all. Perfect to get riding again on, so you don't need to worry about that "big bike".
And as for your stepsons? If they take a Basic RiderCourse and promise ATGATT too, then they can ride their bikes. After the trouble and expense of course and gear they're not going to want to borrow, and you're not going to want to lend to riders who haven't taken the course and who don't have the gear.
posted by mendel at 9:10 PM on May 25, 2007
I'd question buying the first bike you rode after almost 20 years of self-imposed moratorium. If a new Harley is the kind of price ticket you can advance without the need to shop around, well, what the hell, and why not buy me a pony while you're at it? But seriously, why not do some research and test drive a bunch more motorcycles?
It seems worthwhile to me to talk to your son about the decision prior to making it. His feelings are going to matter to you though they shouldn't dictate your decision.
You don't have to let your step sons ride the bike. Drawing the sharing line at some particular special vehicle is a fatherly tradition.
And browse the many other motorcycle threads - don't miss the "are Harleys for poseurs only" question. Also many iterations of the perennial "are motorcycles too dangerous to be worth it" debate. Food for thought.
posted by nanojath at 9:31 PM on May 25, 2007
It seems worthwhile to me to talk to your son about the decision prior to making it. His feelings are going to matter to you though they shouldn't dictate your decision.
You don't have to let your step sons ride the bike. Drawing the sharing line at some particular special vehicle is a fatherly tradition.
And browse the many other motorcycle threads - don't miss the "are Harleys for poseurs only" question. Also many iterations of the perennial "are motorcycles too dangerous to be worth it" debate. Food for thought.
posted by nanojath at 9:31 PM on May 25, 2007
There are worse things than dieing. Like getting brain damage. I know two people who crashed their bikes who had serious brain injury: one was in a vegetative comma for 5 years before he died, it destroyed his family, but worse, it destroyed his employees and business partners because his status didn't allow for legal division or management of his business. The other, one a brilliant man with the energy of two people is now functionally retarded. His newlywed second wife now has to feed him and wipe him. Truly a horror story.
If you have people who depend on you, and you want to take this risk, get medical coverage that can handle the worst case scenario: not for you, but for them.
posted by Osmanthus at 10:37 PM on May 25, 2007
If you have people who depend on you, and you want to take this risk, get medical coverage that can handle the worst case scenario: not for you, but for them.
posted by Osmanthus at 10:37 PM on May 25, 2007
I'd say no, but not because of personal issues or the danger of riding. It sounds to me like you haven't shopped around at all and are going with a purely emotional buying decision. It's great to get excited and do what you love (danger be damned) but at least go hit a few other dealerships. Go ride some Japanese bikes. Talk to your friends who ride and see what they think is a good value. Don't let your deep emotional issues force you into an impulse buy.
posted by chairface at 11:27 PM on May 25, 2007
posted by chairface at 11:27 PM on May 25, 2007
Get back on! Maybe not the Harley (I'm not a fan of HD in general, but sportsters are pretty sweet) but if you want to ride, get back on something. If you have had multiple bikes, and even introduced your children to them, then it was obviously a big part of your life and something you enjoyed.
Take an MSF class. Get brushed up on the basics. Take the MSF advanced course. Get more brushed up.
Motorcycles are dangerous; fault in an accident is rarely an issue in my book. If you're going to ride you know the risks.
posted by gally99 at 1:29 AM on May 26, 2007
Take an MSF class. Get brushed up on the basics. Take the MSF advanced course. Get more brushed up.
Motorcycles are dangerous; fault in an accident is rarely an issue in my book. If you're going to ride you know the risks.
posted by gally99 at 1:29 AM on May 26, 2007
My feeling is that riding a motorcycle is far and away the most dangerous thing you are legally permitted to do in the United States. The danger is to your own life and health.
My friends who ride say they are in less danger than the average motorcycle rider, because they are young, or they pay more attention, or they don't ride recklessly, or they don't ride in the rain, or they only ride in the daytime, or they don't ride in winter, or they don't ride on the highway, or they don't ride in heavy traffic. I still worry about them, because I don't think the principal danger to the average motorcyclist comes from pilot error. But that's a bunch of handwaving.
I do not ride myself, but I have sat behind folks on motorcycles a number of times. I found it to be one of the most exhilarating and enjoyable experiences I've ever had. I do not ride a motorcycle for the same reasons I do not habitually take cocaine: I like to think that I can realize when something is pleasurable and still potentially harmful to myself.
That said, it's your life. I agree with the idea of waiting a month on a high-ticket purchase like this.
During that time talk to your therapist some more. I imagine losing your son must have been very hard on you. If you spent a lot of time "denying your own personhood" perhaps you need to get in touch with what Karl Menninger and Freud called the "death wish." If your desire to ride is about validating your personal freedom and sense of personhood, that makes it much more positive than if there is some subconscious desire kicking around to punish yourself for your son's death by murdering yourself in the same way that you blame yourself for murdering him.
As the psychoanalysts say, there are no accidents. What they mean is that often when human beings do something that is later termed an accident, what they are really doing is acting out their subconscious desires. If you have a subconscious desire to die on a motorcycle your subconscious will have plenty of opportunity to make it come true.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:56 AM on May 26, 2007
My friends who ride say they are in less danger than the average motorcycle rider, because they are young, or they pay more attention, or they don't ride recklessly, or they don't ride in the rain, or they only ride in the daytime, or they don't ride in winter, or they don't ride on the highway, or they don't ride in heavy traffic. I still worry about them, because I don't think the principal danger to the average motorcyclist comes from pilot error. But that's a bunch of handwaving.
I do not ride myself, but I have sat behind folks on motorcycles a number of times. I found it to be one of the most exhilarating and enjoyable experiences I've ever had. I do not ride a motorcycle for the same reasons I do not habitually take cocaine: I like to think that I can realize when something is pleasurable and still potentially harmful to myself.
That said, it's your life. I agree with the idea of waiting a month on a high-ticket purchase like this.
During that time talk to your therapist some more. I imagine losing your son must have been very hard on you. If you spent a lot of time "denying your own personhood" perhaps you need to get in touch with what Karl Menninger and Freud called the "death wish." If your desire to ride is about validating your personal freedom and sense of personhood, that makes it much more positive than if there is some subconscious desire kicking around to punish yourself for your son's death by murdering yourself in the same way that you blame yourself for murdering him.
As the psychoanalysts say, there are no accidents. What they mean is that often when human beings do something that is later termed an accident, what they are really doing is acting out their subconscious desires. If you have a subconscious desire to die on a motorcycle your subconscious will have plenty of opportunity to make it come true.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:56 AM on May 26, 2007
gally99 writes 'Get back on! Maybe not the Harley...'
Maybe another woman? Forget the Harley. Buy a sports car and get yourself an inappropriately young woman to go with it.
At least as much fun and the major threats are to your emotions and your bank balance rather than your life and your major organs.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:20 AM on May 26, 2007
Maybe another woman? Forget the Harley. Buy a sports car and get yourself an inappropriately young woman to go with it.
At least as much fun and the major threats are to your emotions and your bank balance rather than your life and your major organs.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:20 AM on May 26, 2007
Best answer: I think the OP is pretty well aware and does not need to be reminded of the dangers of riding motorcycles. The proselytizing here to that effect is kind of distasteful. I think the OP is asking more about how to handle everyone else's reaction to his getting back into riding again, rather than to be reminded of the risks.
I think the only way to allay the concerns of his family, his son and his step sons is to speak to each of them directly about it hear out all of their concerns, weigh them with his own drive and ultimately come to his own decision about it.
I think people that don't ride don't have much of an appreciation for how much riding gets in your blood. How much like a meditation it is. From my own experience, I understand how much I am taking my life into my own hands every time I go out, but I do know that when I'm not riding, my mental seems to suffer. Every ride I go on is a tremendous aid to me in helping me clear out some of the mental clutter that accumulates throughout the week. I arrive home fresh, exhilirated, focused and peaceful. I do not know if it's the act of riding the bike and being out there, in the moment, that helps with this, or if the dangerousness of it is part of the overall experience, but it is very much part of who I am. I have tried meditation, I've tried tai chi, martial arts, yoga, etc... and the only thing that works for me is riding.
posted by psmealey at 4:51 AM on May 26, 2007 [5 favorites]
I think the only way to allay the concerns of his family, his son and his step sons is to speak to each of them directly about it hear out all of their concerns, weigh them with his own drive and ultimately come to his own decision about it.
I think people that don't ride don't have much of an appreciation for how much riding gets in your blood. How much like a meditation it is. From my own experience, I understand how much I am taking my life into my own hands every time I go out, but I do know that when I'm not riding, my mental seems to suffer. Every ride I go on is a tremendous aid to me in helping me clear out some of the mental clutter that accumulates throughout the week. I arrive home fresh, exhilirated, focused and peaceful. I do not know if it's the act of riding the bike and being out there, in the moment, that helps with this, or if the dangerousness of it is part of the overall experience, but it is very much part of who I am. I have tried meditation, I've tried tai chi, martial arts, yoga, etc... and the only thing that works for me is riding.
posted by psmealey at 4:51 AM on May 26, 2007 [5 favorites]
Some people question the reliability of Harleys. But, really, the fact is that 80% of ALL Harleys ever manufactured are still on the road.
The rest made it home OK.
But, seriously, get what you want. I personally would no more own a Harley than I would a set of Bose speakers or an iPod, because I see them all as nothing but marketing success stories, selling a "feeling". (With Harleys, it's that whole Brotherhood thing.) For whatever kind of riding you want to do, I guarantee there's a non-Harley that will do it better, and more reliably.
posted by Bradley at 3:52 PM on May 26, 2007
The rest made it home OK.
But, seriously, get what you want. I personally would no more own a Harley than I would a set of Bose speakers or an iPod, because I see them all as nothing but marketing success stories, selling a "feeling". (With Harleys, it's that whole Brotherhood thing.) For whatever kind of riding you want to do, I guarantee there's a non-Harley that will do it better, and more reliably.
posted by Bradley at 3:52 PM on May 26, 2007
I am going to jump on the bandwagon of the MSF Basic or Experienced rider course. Not only will it get you back into the motions and help your head practice thinking at the speed of instantaneous, but if you take it before you buy a bike you will have that much more confidence in your decision, whichever way it goes.
Is it about buying and owning a bike, or riding? I'd say start with riding and then you can move to owning.
posted by iurodivii at 6:45 AM on May 29, 2007
Is it about buying and owning a bike, or riding? I'd say start with riding and then you can move to owning.
posted by iurodivii at 6:45 AM on May 29, 2007
Response by poster: thanks, to everyone that responded. All of the answers were useful as I pondered this decision...
final result
posted by HuronBob at 7:12 PM on June 2, 2007
final result
posted by HuronBob at 7:12 PM on June 2, 2007
Awesome! You did it! MSF = yes. Take the advanced course, you've enough experience to skip the beginner's course. Gear up and don't feel embarrassed when some squid rides by with no helmet, wearing flip-flops and gives you the eye. A great place to get new, but discontinued gear is newenough.com Great gear at excellent prices with reasonable shipping charges.
After what you've been through this purchase will be worth every penny and may be as much of a personal investment in your mental health as any therapy visit. I'm giving you the "bike wave" right now. Ride on!
posted by HyperBlue at 7:49 PM on August 6, 2007
After what you've been through this purchase will be worth every penny and may be as much of a personal investment in your mental health as any therapy visit. I'm giving you the "bike wave" right now. Ride on!
posted by HyperBlue at 7:49 PM on August 6, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Frasermoo at 8:18 PM on May 25, 2007