How many languages should my kid have to learn?
May 6, 2006 11:24 PM Subscribe
Polylingualkidsfilter: (Hypothetical) I'm a Fluent English/French speaker and my wife is a fluent English/Mandarin speaker. Living in an English-speaking country (Australia), in what language should we speak to our kids?
We're both of the opinion that knowledge of a second language is a wonderful skill that no one should be without. In this environment, we curious as to whether our kid(s) would benefit from speaking a LOTE (Language Other Than English) at home and English at school.
Unfortunately, I don't speak a word of Mandarin, nor does she speak a word of French. Could we realistically speak to our kids in our respective foreign languages and would it be beneficial for them, or quite the opposite? Would speaking to your father in French, your mother in Mandarin and your friends in English give you an incredible advantage over your peers, or would it only serve to confuse you and would you end up with less-than-stellar literacy in all three languages?
Thank you for all your input, Mefites. :-)
We're both of the opinion that knowledge of a second language is a wonderful skill that no one should be without. In this environment, we curious as to whether our kid(s) would benefit from speaking a LOTE (Language Other Than English) at home and English at school.
Unfortunately, I don't speak a word of Mandarin, nor does she speak a word of French. Could we realistically speak to our kids in our respective foreign languages and would it be beneficial for them, or quite the opposite? Would speaking to your father in French, your mother in Mandarin and your friends in English give you an incredible advantage over your peers, or would it only serve to confuse you and would you end up with less-than-stellar literacy in all three languages?
Thank you for all your input, Mefites. :-)
I have a friend whose mother was Russian and father Belgian. He grew up speaking English, Russian and French and was no worse off for it. He's a pilot now.
posted by maxreax at 11:32 PM on May 6, 2006
posted by maxreax at 11:32 PM on May 6, 2006
The answer is, it depends. Some kids can pick up as many languages as you can throw at them, and some can't.
My brother wasn't speaking at four, and we took him to a speech therapist to find out what the deal was. He said that we were speaking to him in too many languages (three: english, spanish, and farsi) and he couldn't keep track. Others, he said, can speak all three fluently. It all just depends on the child.
So, to answer your question: Speak in all three. If you notice a problem, switch to just one. We did, and my brother was speaking fine in a year. He's an honor student, so I don't think he suffered any longterm effects.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 11:40 PM on May 6, 2006
My brother wasn't speaking at four, and we took him to a speech therapist to find out what the deal was. He said that we were speaking to him in too many languages (three: english, spanish, and farsi) and he couldn't keep track. Others, he said, can speak all three fluently. It all just depends on the child.
So, to answer your question: Speak in all three. If you notice a problem, switch to just one. We did, and my brother was speaking fine in a year. He's an honor student, so I don't think he suffered any longterm effects.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 11:40 PM on May 6, 2006
all three, but if only two, chinese and english. the chinese will be more useful in the future :-x
posted by Tryptophan-5ht at 11:43 PM on May 6, 2006
posted by Tryptophan-5ht at 11:43 PM on May 6, 2006
If you had to focus on one(other than English), I'd go with Mandarin for obvious reasons.
However, I think this is a great opportunity for you to learn Mandarin, your wife to learn French, and your kids to learn both.
posted by madajb at 11:46 PM on May 6, 2006
However, I think this is a great opportunity for you to learn Mandarin, your wife to learn French, and your kids to learn both.
posted by madajb at 11:46 PM on May 6, 2006
In my experience it seems that kids do better learning more languages if all parents understand the languages.
But I certainly have friends that are doing it while the other spouse doesn't know the language.
One of you only do French, with some English. One of you only do Manderin with some English. Try to learn the other spouse's language yourself.
Good luck!
posted by k8t at 12:15 AM on May 7, 2006
But I certainly have friends that are doing it while the other spouse doesn't know the language.
One of you only do French, with some English. One of you only do Manderin with some English. Try to learn the other spouse's language yourself.
Good luck!
posted by k8t at 12:15 AM on May 7, 2006
I read some advice on this a while ago, but I can't remember where. For what's it's worth, it was "speak as many languages as you like, but don't mix them together". So, two, three languages, not a problem, but don't speak a sentence of English, then a sentence of Mandarin, then back to English again, or mix the words from different languages.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 1:19 AM on May 7, 2006
posted by AmbroseChapel at 1:19 AM on May 7, 2006
Especially in Australia — which, due to its location, will only get more diverse in future years — it's an excellent idea to expose your brood to as many languages as they can absorb. And all the research I've seen indicates that this stimulates their learning abilities and early development. Initially, there might be some confusion and mixing, but I'd concentrate at home on whatever non-English language(s) you use. TV, friends, and community will ensure that their English ability is covered. Here's a resource to get you started.
And AC is certainly correct: speak with forked tongue (i.e., keep 'em separate.)
posted by rob511 at 1:33 AM on May 7, 2006
And AC is certainly correct: speak with forked tongue (i.e., keep 'em separate.)
posted by rob511 at 1:33 AM on May 7, 2006
I would encourage you both to also try to learn each other's extra languages. It may sound silly, but the fact that one parent can later talk to the child in the presence of the other without that one understanding may lead to resentment or awkwardness. These situations will arise.
posted by ClarissaWAM at 3:53 AM on May 7, 2006
posted by ClarissaWAM at 3:53 AM on May 7, 2006
Choose Mandarin to speak at home. Your child can learn Franch at school, and with you helping it should be easy. Mandarin, however, is more likely to "take" - there is more mandarin spoken on the streets than French in Australia, making the child feel like it is a useful tool to know another language.
posted by zaelic at 4:05 AM on May 7, 2006
posted by zaelic at 4:05 AM on May 7, 2006
Another vote for teaching your kids all three! I moved to Germany at 10 years of age and was fluent within a year. It has helped quite a bit in the subsequent 19 odd years, and would love to have learned more languages as a child... it is much more difficult to learn them as an adult. Best of luck!
posted by cactus at 4:08 AM on May 7, 2006
posted by cactus at 4:08 AM on May 7, 2006
Speak in French to your kids. Exclusively, even in front of your wife.
Your wife should speak Mandarin to your kids; same deal.
Speak English with your wife (and presumably with visitors).
They will pick up all three languages.
posted by aroberge at 4:30 AM on May 7, 2006
Your wife should speak Mandarin to your kids; same deal.
Speak English with your wife (and presumably with visitors).
They will pick up all three languages.
posted by aroberge at 4:30 AM on May 7, 2006
It absolutely couldn't hurt. My husband's US-born cousins live in Switzerland, near the Italian border; the mother speaks German and English, the father does likewise (learned in college and practiced ever since), and their kids speak German, English, and Italian (local language). They function marvelously.
You'll be giving them skills they can't buy when they're older. Speak to them, and often, in all of your languages. My husband and I (he's Caucasian and speaks English and has taken intro Mandarin classes; I grew up bilingual in English and Mandarin) plan to speak and learn Mandarin together with our child.
posted by cajo at 4:46 AM on May 7, 2006
You'll be giving them skills they can't buy when they're older. Speak to them, and often, in all of your languages. My husband and I (he's Caucasian and speaks English and has taken intro Mandarin classes; I grew up bilingual in English and Mandarin) plan to speak and learn Mandarin together with our child.
posted by cajo at 4:46 AM on May 7, 2006
We're doing this right now (in Australia). My wife speaks French to my son, and I speak English to him. He understands both languages very clearly, but has been struggling with speaking either. He turns three next Sunday.
It's important to undertake a bit of reading* - I believe - to consider the implications and establish the approach and there are a few books on the matter. I've read a reasonable amount, and the consistent theme seems to be to establish consistency with how you communicate with your child - that is to say, you should always talk with them consistently in the chosen language (you French and her Mandarin) to minimise confusion. They are able to establish the differences when presented this way, but when language is mixed it becomes difficult.
Now - do I recommend it? Well, I'll agree with kingjoeshmoe - it depends on the child - but you have to exercise patience and stick with it once you begin. Learning 2 (or more) languages from birth does wonderful things for the neurological development of the child and despite my son's seeming lack of progress I believe we've done the right thing.
Kingjoeshmoe - what happened with your brother - how long did it take for him to catch up, and what effect did it have on his later development?
*I'll post the ISBN and title of the book we use, and any links I can dig up when I get a moment
posted by strawberryviagra at 4:58 AM on May 7, 2006
It's important to undertake a bit of reading* - I believe - to consider the implications and establish the approach and there are a few books on the matter. I've read a reasonable amount, and the consistent theme seems to be to establish consistency with how you communicate with your child - that is to say, you should always talk with them consistently in the chosen language (you French and her Mandarin) to minimise confusion. They are able to establish the differences when presented this way, but when language is mixed it becomes difficult.
Now - do I recommend it? Well, I'll agree with kingjoeshmoe - it depends on the child - but you have to exercise patience and stick with it once you begin. Learning 2 (or more) languages from birth does wonderful things for the neurological development of the child and despite my son's seeming lack of progress I believe we've done the right thing.
Kingjoeshmoe - what happened with your brother - how long did it take for him to catch up, and what effect did it have on his later development?
*I'll post the ISBN and title of the book we use, and any links I can dig up when I get a moment
posted by strawberryviagra at 4:58 AM on May 7, 2006
Speaking as a graduate student in cognitive neuroscience who spends many hours a day around linguists (and who's about to marry one) -- there is absolutely zero evidence that multilingual children are disadvantaged in their language acquisition in any way.
Some studies have shown that multilingual children start speaking slightly later (where "slightly" was a few weeks, and was barely statistically significant at that), but the rate of word learning and structure learning then accelerated faster than their monolingual peers, thus closing the gap.
posted by dmd at 6:26 AM on May 7, 2006
Some studies have shown that multilingual children start speaking slightly later (where "slightly" was a few weeks, and was barely statistically significant at that), but the rate of word learning and structure learning then accelerated faster than their monolingual peers, thus closing the gap.
posted by dmd at 6:26 AM on May 7, 2006
I live in Canada where a lot children are raised speaking more than one language. This is a great thing, provided that everyone has realistic expectations. Most second language acq. experts agree: children will generally not speak a language unless they have heard it in conversation. They will, however, understand a language they have heard. Multilingualism is great, but like so many aspects of childhood, it isn't as easy for the child as we would like to think. Please do it, but please think about the child's needs.
If the child is to be really fluent, she or he will need exposure to other speakers and ideally, basic lessons in reading and writing. Is this possible? Think about how much you learned in elementary school about your native language. I'm not talking about sentence diagrams, just basic things like careful pronunciation, vocabulary, how to speak to an adult who is not your parent, how to distinguish nice and naughty words, how to handle social interactions. This does not happen in the home, but rather from interacting with others. These are harder to learn as an adult. You kid should be prepared for this.
My nightmare scenario is a friend who is raising her child trilingually. She is half Serb, half Czech, and raised here. She speaks English well, but is not very articulate. Her Czech and Serbian are freakishly atrocious. The sounds are authentic, but the languages themselves are not. It goes beyong grammar. She speaks to everyone in child-like voice, addressing everyone in familar, familial diction. She understands both languages, and feels completely fluent, but is having a hell of a time learning to read and write Czech, and there is just something insensitive about her when she speaks Czech. I only like her when she speaks English.
And worse, people laugh behind her back. I think her exposure could have been more positive if her parents had prepared her realistically, sending her to classes or to camp with other heritage speakers, or at least not building her identity on being multilingual. And yet, she refuses to let her daughter speak English. The child is brilliant, but withdrawn outside of the family circle.
Lastly, think about the dynamics in your family. You want to have some natural, fun time in a family setting where everyone feels comfortable. Languaging learning can be a part of this, but it should be fun and secondary to family relationships.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:35 AM on May 7, 2006
If the child is to be really fluent, she or he will need exposure to other speakers and ideally, basic lessons in reading and writing. Is this possible? Think about how much you learned in elementary school about your native language. I'm not talking about sentence diagrams, just basic things like careful pronunciation, vocabulary, how to speak to an adult who is not your parent, how to distinguish nice and naughty words, how to handle social interactions. This does not happen in the home, but rather from interacting with others. These are harder to learn as an adult. You kid should be prepared for this.
My nightmare scenario is a friend who is raising her child trilingually. She is half Serb, half Czech, and raised here. She speaks English well, but is not very articulate. Her Czech and Serbian are freakishly atrocious. The sounds are authentic, but the languages themselves are not. It goes beyong grammar. She speaks to everyone in child-like voice, addressing everyone in familar, familial diction. She understands both languages, and feels completely fluent, but is having a hell of a time learning to read and write Czech, and there is just something insensitive about her when she speaks Czech. I only like her when she speaks English.
And worse, people laugh behind her back. I think her exposure could have been more positive if her parents had prepared her realistically, sending her to classes or to camp with other heritage speakers, or at least not building her identity on being multilingual. And yet, she refuses to let her daughter speak English. The child is brilliant, but withdrawn outside of the family circle.
Lastly, think about the dynamics in your family. You want to have some natural, fun time in a family setting where everyone feels comfortable. Languaging learning can be a part of this, but it should be fun and secondary to family relationships.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:35 AM on May 7, 2006
i don't see that anyone's linked to it yet, but the ask a linguist resource has tons and tons of information about this, from people in similar situations.
posted by whatzit at 6:37 AM on May 7, 2006
posted by whatzit at 6:37 AM on May 7, 2006
This is something I still wonder if I made the wrong decision when I chose to speak Japanese to my son instead of English. I was raised bilingual in Japanese and English (I went to school in the US), and Japanese was the language I spoke at home. My husband speaks no English, and we live in Tokyo. When our son was born, I really, really thought hard about which language I would speak to my son, but I decided not to go with English because it just didn't feel right to me and I didn't think I could be consistent about it, which is something that others have pointed out above as being important. I think if I had married an English speaker, I would have gone ahead with English in our household, but because my husband doesn't understand it, it just really seemed weird and awkward. And I wanted him to have a firm grip on his "mother tongue" before he learned a second language. But now my boy is eight and understands no English, and I'm still wondering if I made the wrong decision... I do try to expose him to English as much as possible, so we'll see how he turns out.
FWIW, I'm completely bilingual now, meaning I can function in both languages equally well, reading, writing, and speaking. But I still remember being *really* stressed out when I was in elementary school because I had to work so hard to maintain both languages (I had to do my schoolwork in two languages, so double the work!). So my ability wasn't something that just materialized out of the thin air of my upbringing. Also, my younger brother, who was raised under similar circumstances except he was two years younger than me, always seemed to have difficulty managing both languages and seems to still find communicating in one easier than the other. So yes, like others have said, I would advise to keep an eye on your children and see how they adapt, and be brave enough to drop one or even two languages if they seem to have trouble digesting them all.
One last thing. I know plenty of people who are multi-lingual who weren't raised that way. Sure, it might get your kids a big head start, but in the end it's your kids who'll make the effort to learn those languages. Good luck!
posted by misozaki at 6:44 AM on May 7, 2006
FWIW, I'm completely bilingual now, meaning I can function in both languages equally well, reading, writing, and speaking. But I still remember being *really* stressed out when I was in elementary school because I had to work so hard to maintain both languages (I had to do my schoolwork in two languages, so double the work!). So my ability wasn't something that just materialized out of the thin air of my upbringing. Also, my younger brother, who was raised under similar circumstances except he was two years younger than me, always seemed to have difficulty managing both languages and seems to still find communicating in one easier than the other. So yes, like others have said, I would advise to keep an eye on your children and see how they adapt, and be brave enough to drop one or even two languages if they seem to have trouble digesting them all.
One last thing. I know plenty of people who are multi-lingual who weren't raised that way. Sure, it might get your kids a big head start, but in the end it's your kids who'll make the effort to learn those languages. Good luck!
posted by misozaki at 6:44 AM on May 7, 2006
I've been looking into this myself, though I haven't actually been through it yet. I've read that, in addition to what everyone else has said, it's important for the child to not only speak all the languages, but to have songs and storybooks and so on in all the languages.
posted by leapingsheep at 6:49 AM on May 7, 2006
posted by leapingsheep at 6:49 AM on May 7, 2006
Yes. My parents are bilingual, but only taught me English. I still hound them every day about that blunder!
I would suggest something like a "french day" and a "mandarin day," where everyone learns/speaks that particular language, including you/your SO. I envy...
posted by clord at 7:46 AM on May 7, 2006
I would suggest something like a "french day" and a "mandarin day," where everyone learns/speaks that particular language, including you/your SO. I envy...
posted by clord at 7:46 AM on May 7, 2006
kingjoeshmoe: My brother wasn't speaking at four, and we took him to a speech therapist to find out what the deal was. He said that we were speaking to him in too many languages (three: english, spanish, and farsi) and he couldn't keep track.
Your speech therapist sucked. If a four-year-old is not talking it has nothing to do with exposure to multiple languages.
posted by kmel at 7:47 AM on May 7, 2006
Your speech therapist sucked. If a four-year-old is not talking it has nothing to do with exposure to multiple languages.
posted by kmel at 7:47 AM on May 7, 2006
I knew a couple once who were trying to raise their child to speak three languages. If the child was with dad, they would speak French. If the child was with mom, they would speak Norwegian. If the child was with both, they would speak English. Sounds workable to me, but I didn't know them long enough to find out if it worked.
posted by owen at 8:34 AM on May 7, 2006
posted by owen at 8:34 AM on May 7, 2006
Teach your kids Chinese. The more fundamentally dissimilar the languages that children learn early, the easier it will be for them to pick up other languages at a later age. When I have children, I would like to have them learn Chinese and a romance language fluently, and I'd like them to dabble in a germanic language, and a sanskrit- or arabic-based language.
posted by randomstriker at 8:37 AM on May 7, 2006
posted by randomstriker at 8:37 AM on May 7, 2006
I know a family where the father speaks French and German, the month speaks English and Tagalog (how they hooked up, I have no idea) anyways, the father speaks german to the boy, and the mother speaks Tagalog. Now this 8yr old speaks four languages without studying any of them.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:20 AM on May 7, 2006
posted by blue_beetle at 9:20 AM on May 7, 2006
On foreign exchange in France I met a guy who was Swiss, he spoke English and German fluently; his mother spoke German in addition to English. He told us he learned both languages at once:
(pointing) "Mama zug! Papa train!"
posted by Skorgu at 10:14 AM on May 7, 2006
(pointing) "Mama zug! Papa train!"
posted by Skorgu at 10:14 AM on May 7, 2006
Most second language acq. experts agree: children will generally not speak a language unless they have heard it in conversation.
Well, you probably shouldn't listen to them -- what children are doing up until the age of 12 or so is not second language acquisition, it's 1st language acquisition, and a completely different bag. 2nd language acquisition happens only after the critical period is over -- it is what adults do.
Speaking as a graduate student in cognitive neuroscience who spends many hours a day around linguists (and who's about to marry one) -- there is absolutely zero evidence that multilingual children are disadvantaged in their language acquisition in any way.
Yes, as a linguist, I second this claim.
posted by advil at 12:23 PM on May 7, 2006
Well, you probably shouldn't listen to them -- what children are doing up until the age of 12 or so is not second language acquisition, it's 1st language acquisition, and a completely different bag. 2nd language acquisition happens only after the critical period is over -- it is what adults do.
Speaking as a graduate student in cognitive neuroscience who spends many hours a day around linguists (and who's about to marry one) -- there is absolutely zero evidence that multilingual children are disadvantaged in their language acquisition in any way.
Yes, as a linguist, I second this claim.
posted by advil at 12:23 PM on May 7, 2006
I think delays in speaking are fairly normal for bilingual kids, but they do catch up and normally surpass their peers. It's not a race. It's just one of those areas where you need to pay attention to the kid's needs.
Regardless, one of my monolingual friends had a child who really didn't talk much at four. She took him to a specialist who tested him. He was just slow. Not stupid, just slow. Ten years later, he is very bright and verbal, and is doing very well in all of his classes, French in particular.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:55 PM on May 7, 2006
Regardless, one of my monolingual friends had a child who really didn't talk much at four. She took him to a specialist who tested him. He was just slow. Not stupid, just slow. Ten years later, he is very bright and verbal, and is doing very well in all of his classes, French in particular.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:55 PM on May 7, 2006
Some good advice in this thread. The autodidactic reading I've done in linguistics supports the idea that much good and no harm can come from thoughtful multilingualism in a child's upbringing.
Your speech therapist sucked. If a four-year-old is not talking it has nothing to do with exposure to multiple languages.
I was also a little shocked that a 'speech therapist' would make such a claim. I'd be interested to see what if any research he or she based their claim upon.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:04 PM on May 7, 2006
Your speech therapist sucked. If a four-year-old is not talking it has nothing to do with exposure to multiple languages.
I was also a little shocked that a 'speech therapist' would make such a claim. I'd be interested to see what if any research he or she based their claim upon.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:04 PM on May 7, 2006
Here are the details for the book we have been using (by no means the only or most authoritative reference, but filled with info on the subject):
Growing up with two languages - A practical guide
Una Cunningham-Andersson and Staffan Andersson
ISBN 0 415 21256 1 (hbk)
ISBN 0 415 21257 X (pbk)
Available from the:
Language Book Centre
ph +61 2 9267 1397
Price: $36.00 AUD (inc GST)
Good luck!
posted by strawberryviagra at 9:53 PM on May 7, 2006
Growing up with two languages - A practical guide
Una Cunningham-Andersson and Staffan Andersson
ISBN 0 415 21256 1 (hbk)
ISBN 0 415 21257 X (pbk)
Available from the:
Language Book Centre
ph +61 2 9267 1397
Price: $36.00 AUD (inc GST)
Good luck!
posted by strawberryviagra at 9:53 PM on May 7, 2006
I'm glad that people are calling bullshit on the speech therapist thing. I though so too but didn't have the courage to say so.
What was his theory, that hearing milk called "foo", "bar" or "baz" in three different languages, when he was thirsty he'd sit there pondering over which word to use?
Anyway, it's normal for the youngest child in a family to learn to talk later, right?
posted by AmbroseChapel at 9:16 PM on May 8, 2006
What was his theory, that hearing milk called "foo", "bar" or "baz" in three different languages, when he was thirsty he'd sit there pondering over which word to use?
Anyway, it's normal for the youngest child in a family to learn to talk later, right?
posted by AmbroseChapel at 9:16 PM on May 8, 2006
People I know who were raised with Mom speaking French and Dad speaking English went through a period when they thought that all women spoke French and all men spoke English, but that was quickly straightened out and mostly just provided an amusing anecdote.
I am monolingual and really wish I had learned another language as a child since my second language acquisition skills are really terrible.
posted by joannemerriam at 1:35 PM on May 10, 2006
I am monolingual and really wish I had learned another language as a child since my second language acquisition skills are really terrible.
posted by joannemerriam at 1:35 PM on May 10, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by phrontist at 11:31 PM on May 6, 2006