Chinese writers and Western physicists
July 8, 2023 12:18 PM Subscribe
I’ve been following the Chinese TV series based on The Three Body Problem and have been very surprised how many historical Western physicists appear in it. In fact there do not appear to be any historical Chinese scientists presented from the era of Newton through Einstein.
I’m surprised because usually when I delve into Chinese culture I find an entire different history of science and technology, often leading the West by a hundred years or more. The book was written by a Chinese author in a Chinese language, but perhaps it was meant for Western audiences anyway? And if not are there really no historical Chinese scientists that are considered to be the equals Newton or Einstein?
I’m surprised because usually when I delve into Chinese culture I find an entire different history of science and technology, often leading the West by a hundred years or more. The book was written by a Chinese author in a Chinese language, but perhaps it was meant for Western audiences anyway? And if not are there really no historical Chinese scientists that are considered to be the equals Newton or Einstein?
Response by poster: Also, the title of the book and comes from Principia Mathematica
The English translation does. Chinese mathematicians and physicists could easily have encountered the problem at some point and have their own name for it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:32 PM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
The English translation does. Chinese mathematicians and physicists could easily have encountered the problem at some point and have their own name for it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:32 PM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Some of the more recent advances in numerical simulations of the three body problem are in fact by Chinese physicists. In their own paper, they credit Newton.
posted by vacapinta at 1:52 PM on July 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by vacapinta at 1:52 PM on July 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Chinese mathematicians and physicists could easily have encountered the problem at some point and have their own name for it.Not really 'at some point.' You can't meaningfully consider the three-body problem without knowledge of a) calculus, and b) Newtonian classical mechanics/gravitation.
posted by kickingtheground at 2:03 PM on July 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: The book was written by a Chinese author in a Chinese language, but perhaps it was meant for Western audiences anyway?
That's kind of a weird guess, to be honest. Liu Cixin is a very popular science fiction author in China, writing for Chinese audiences and winning Chinese awards. The Three-Body Problem was originally published in a Chinese science fiction anthology and wasn't translated into English until eight years later.
I think there's a misconception underlying this question: That since Chinese intellectual and technological development was historically independent (and sometimes ahead) of the Western world, that this independence must have persisted into the modern day. But while there are always things like language barriers, the modern scientific world is much more interconnected and global - and has been since the scientific revolution. No one has "their own" Newton and Einstein. Everyone cites the same guys.
The question of why the scientific revolution originated in Europe and why it continued to be dominated by Western countries until very recently is a massive one that I'm not going to attempt to answer. But that's essentially what you're asking here.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:49 PM on July 8, 2023 [24 favorites]
That's kind of a weird guess, to be honest. Liu Cixin is a very popular science fiction author in China, writing for Chinese audiences and winning Chinese awards. The Three-Body Problem was originally published in a Chinese science fiction anthology and wasn't translated into English until eight years later.
I think there's a misconception underlying this question: That since Chinese intellectual and technological development was historically independent (and sometimes ahead) of the Western world, that this independence must have persisted into the modern day. But while there are always things like language barriers, the modern scientific world is much more interconnected and global - and has been since the scientific revolution. No one has "their own" Newton and Einstein. Everyone cites the same guys.
The question of why the scientific revolution originated in Europe and why it continued to be dominated by Western countries until very recently is a massive one that I'm not going to attempt to answer. But that's essentially what you're asking here.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:49 PM on July 8, 2023 [24 favorites]
Response by poster: I think there's a misconception underlying this question
I have many misconceptions about world history, the inevitable outcome of a Western education. When I was in school moveable type was first invented by Gutenberg, Pascal’s triangle was first discovered by Pascal, and the system of binary numbers was first discovered by Leibniz despite the fact that Leibniz specifically wrote that it was a rediscovery of an ancient Chinese system.
No one has "their own" Newton and Einstein. Everyone cites the same guys.
That’s good to know. Nobody is immune to ethnocentrism and world history is very different depending on who is writing it, but it sounds like at least the worlds of math and science have their act together.
Thank you everyone for your responses.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:59 PM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have many misconceptions about world history, the inevitable outcome of a Western education. When I was in school moveable type was first invented by Gutenberg, Pascal’s triangle was first discovered by Pascal, and the system of binary numbers was first discovered by Leibniz despite the fact that Leibniz specifically wrote that it was a rediscovery of an ancient Chinese system.
No one has "their own" Newton and Einstein. Everyone cites the same guys.
That’s good to know. Nobody is immune to ethnocentrism and world history is very different depending on who is writing it, but it sounds like at least the worlds of math and science have their act together.
Thank you everyone for your responses.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:59 PM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Also, the title of the book and comes from Principia Mathematica
The English translation does.
I believe the original Chinese title is 三体, literally "three body."
posted by pullayup at 7:49 PM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
The English translation does.
I believe the original Chinese title is 三体, literally "three body."
posted by pullayup at 7:49 PM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I wrote: "The book was written by a Chinese author in a Chinese language, but perhaps it was meant for Western audiences anyway?"
Having read the book and more about the author I'm starting to think this guess actually has some truth to it -- not that it was written specifically for the West, but that it was written for the entire world. It's an odd mix -- the author is a bit surprised that it has found success outside of China, but at the same time holds the view that sci-fi by its nature is universal. And given that he cut his teeth reading forbidden Western science fiction at a time when the entire topic was verboten you can see how he got there.
Still, the particular situation with physicists is very interesting. Thank you all for your answers.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:41 AM on July 17, 2023
Having read the book and more about the author I'm starting to think this guess actually has some truth to it -- not that it was written specifically for the West, but that it was written for the entire world. It's an odd mix -- the author is a bit surprised that it has found success outside of China, but at the same time holds the view that sci-fi by its nature is universal. And given that he cut his teeth reading forbidden Western science fiction at a time when the entire topic was verboten you can see how he got there.
Still, the particular situation with physicists is very interesting. Thank you all for your answers.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:41 AM on July 17, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also, the title of the book and comes from Principia Mathematica, in which Newton attempted to figure out if three celestial bodies (The Sun, The Moon, The Earth) could be stable long-term according to his laws of motion.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 12:58 PM on July 8, 2023 [2 favorites]