Recommendation for an Epic Adventure/Fantasy novel or series to read.
November 18, 2005 10:51 PM Subscribe
I'm searching for an Epic Adventure/Fantasy novel or series to read. I loved Lord of the Rings and feel that is a great example of what I am looking for and what I mean when I say "epic."
It's been a long time since I read it, and I only read the first five or six books, but Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is excellent.
posted by mattwatson at 11:13 PM on November 18, 2005
posted by mattwatson at 11:13 PM on November 18, 2005
How old are you? How well-read are you? How varied are your tastes? By this I mean: are you just as happy with Michael Crichton as you are with Charles Dickens, or do you prefer one to the other? What is it about Tolkien that appeals to you?
These questions may seem odd, but I think they're necessary to make any sort of meaningful recommendation. For example, many people enjoy the above-mentioned Robert Jordan novels; I can't stand them. Why? I don't know, but I suspect it's related to the fact that I'm middle-aged and well-read and don't like lingering over poorly written stuff. (Note that I'm not saying it's wrong of people to enjoy Jordan, just that I do not and don't consider him anywhere near the same league as Tolkien.)
If, on the other hand, you're comfortable in the realm of pop fiction — and there's nothing wrong with that — but cannot stand Dickens, say, then Jonathan Strange probably won't be your thing: it's well-written, but in a sort a nearly archaic style (and at a nearly archaic pace). I like it. Many people do not.
Of course, there's always Harry Potter!
posted by jdroth at 11:24 PM on November 18, 2005
These questions may seem odd, but I think they're necessary to make any sort of meaningful recommendation. For example, many people enjoy the above-mentioned Robert Jordan novels; I can't stand them. Why? I don't know, but I suspect it's related to the fact that I'm middle-aged and well-read and don't like lingering over poorly written stuff. (Note that I'm not saying it's wrong of people to enjoy Jordan, just that I do not and don't consider him anywhere near the same league as Tolkien.)
If, on the other hand, you're comfortable in the realm of pop fiction — and there's nothing wrong with that — but cannot stand Dickens, say, then Jonathan Strange probably won't be your thing: it's well-written, but in a sort a nearly archaic style (and at a nearly archaic pace). I like it. Many people do not.
Of course, there's always Harry Potter!
posted by jdroth at 11:24 PM on November 18, 2005
Check out George R. R. Martin's Fire and Ice Saga, starting with A Game of Thrones. It's big, epic fantasy (the third novel in the series is longer than the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy), it's extremely well-written, the characters are multi-dimensional and change (often radically) over time. Said third novel is, frankly, on a level with Dune in terms of quality of plot, writing, and characters, and that's saying a whole hell of a lot.
Some other things that may be good or bad depending on your tastes:
There is very little in the way of 'magic' in this series. Portents, omens, and the like are strewn all about the place. To give you an early example, in the first chapter of the first book some northmen - whose coat of arms is a direwolf - come upon a dead direwolf with five newborn pups and one albino pup nearby. The lord of the northmen in question has five children and one bastard child. The direwolf was found killed by a piece of antler lodged in its throat - the king of the realm's coat of arms is a stag. So as not to bore you, Martin has a habit of making these sorts of portents come true in a manner completely different than the reader is lead to believe.
The other big thing that has to be mentioned is the staggering number of characters and plot threads ongoing at all points in the series - you'll frequently find Martin juggling twenty or thirty simultaneous threads. That this actually works and works well is part of why so many people love his books. The only problem is that you have to keep track of a lot of characters, and you really won't start feeling comfortable with knowing who everyone is and what they're doing until the end of the second novel.
The final thing that has to be mentioned is the joy Martin takes in killing off major plot characters completely out of the blue. Characters that happen to possess the point of view that a chapter is written from (each book consists of 5-6 character's point of view being rotated in cycle a few times) aren't safe either. I can nearly guarantee that compared to nearly any other fantasy series you have read Martin will shock at the way in which he cuts a bloody swath through his field of characters.
None of the books makes any sort of sense at all without having read the others - this is true of a lot of large fantasy series, though.
In any case, if you're looking for a series with a double-helping of political intrigue, blood, guts, sex (even incest), and all the other things the lack of which makes Tolkein so dry, this should be the first place you look. Martin is everything Jordan wishes he was, and is far more fun than Tolkein ever could be. Check it.
posted by Ryvar at 11:29 PM on November 18, 2005
Some other things that may be good or bad depending on your tastes:
There is very little in the way of 'magic' in this series. Portents, omens, and the like are strewn all about the place. To give you an early example, in the first chapter of the first book some northmen - whose coat of arms is a direwolf - come upon a dead direwolf with five newborn pups and one albino pup nearby. The lord of the northmen in question has five children and one bastard child. The direwolf was found killed by a piece of antler lodged in its throat - the king of the realm's coat of arms is a stag. So as not to bore you, Martin has a habit of making these sorts of portents come true in a manner completely different than the reader is lead to believe.
The other big thing that has to be mentioned is the staggering number of characters and plot threads ongoing at all points in the series - you'll frequently find Martin juggling twenty or thirty simultaneous threads. That this actually works and works well is part of why so many people love his books. The only problem is that you have to keep track of a lot of characters, and you really won't start feeling comfortable with knowing who everyone is and what they're doing until the end of the second novel.
The final thing that has to be mentioned is the joy Martin takes in killing off major plot characters completely out of the blue. Characters that happen to possess the point of view that a chapter is written from (each book consists of 5-6 character's point of view being rotated in cycle a few times) aren't safe either. I can nearly guarantee that compared to nearly any other fantasy series you have read Martin will shock at the way in which he cuts a bloody swath through his field of characters.
None of the books makes any sort of sense at all without having read the others - this is true of a lot of large fantasy series, though.
In any case, if you're looking for a series with a double-helping of political intrigue, blood, guts, sex (even incest), and all the other things the lack of which makes Tolkein so dry, this should be the first place you look. Martin is everything Jordan wishes he was, and is far more fun than Tolkein ever could be. Check it.
posted by Ryvar at 11:29 PM on November 18, 2005
Raymond Feist's Riftwar Saga series, starting with "Magician: Apprentice", would be well worth investigating.
posted by planetthoughtful at 11:32 PM on November 18, 2005
posted by planetthoughtful at 11:32 PM on November 18, 2005
Many years ago my friend whose taste I much respected told me to read the Gormenghast trilogy. Maybe you'd like that.
One of these days I'm even going to read it myself.
posted by LeLiLo at 11:32 PM on November 18, 2005
One of these days I'm even going to read it myself.
posted by LeLiLo at 11:32 PM on November 18, 2005
Oh, and while it's not 'epic', and definitely not in the same vein as Tolkein, I can't recommend Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels too highly.
posted by planetthoughtful at 11:34 PM on November 18, 2005
posted by planetthoughtful at 11:34 PM on November 18, 2005
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant should keep you busy for a while. For (usually) lighter fare, you can always go with Piers Anthony (Xanth, for instance).
posted by davidmsc at 11:36 PM on November 18, 2005
posted by davidmsc at 11:36 PM on November 18, 2005
As someone who didn't read much fantasy past Tolkien for many years, I'd have to suggest:
Guy Gavriel Kay's Tigana (his other books are good as well, but this is a good one-book starter).
Stephen Erikson's Malazan series.
and my personal favorite, George R.R. Martin("The other R.R.")'s A Song of Ice and Fire series, starting with A Game of Thrones.
posted by ipe at 11:38 PM on November 18, 2005
Guy Gavriel Kay's Tigana (his other books are good as well, but this is a good one-book starter).
Stephen Erikson's Malazan series.
and my personal favorite, George R.R. Martin("The other R.R.")'s A Song of Ice and Fire series, starting with A Game of Thrones.
posted by ipe at 11:38 PM on November 18, 2005
Seeing the word 'Riftwar' above made me think of the Riverworld series by Philip Jose Farmer, more science fiction than fantasy. I did read the main four novels of this bunch, and really enjoyed them.
posted by LeLiLo at 11:38 PM on November 18, 2005
posted by LeLiLo at 11:38 PM on November 18, 2005
Why? I don't know, but I suspect it's related to the fact that I'm middle-aged and well-read and don't like lingering over poorly written stuff.
Bing! Dead on. The Wheel of Time series is barely tolerable through book five, maybe six. Starting with book seven it becomes virtually unreadable. I got about halfway through book eight before giving up out of masochism more than anything else. Jordan simply wasn't up to the task he set for himself as a writer, and by the time this fact really starts to kick in far too many readers have been inextricably sucked in.
posted by Ryvar at 11:38 PM on November 18, 2005
Bing! Dead on. The Wheel of Time series is barely tolerable through book five, maybe six. Starting with book seven it becomes virtually unreadable. I got about halfway through book eight before giving up out of masochism more than anything else. Jordan simply wasn't up to the task he set for himself as a writer, and by the time this fact really starts to kick in far too many readers have been inextricably sucked in.
posted by Ryvar at 11:38 PM on November 18, 2005
A plug for my friend Alma's books: The Hidden Queen and Changer of Days. If you like this sort of thing, it's exactly the sort of thing you'll like.
posted by kindall at 11:40 PM on November 18, 2005
posted by kindall at 11:40 PM on November 18, 2005
'The Riddle-Master' by Patricia McKillip. It's a recently rereleased trilogy of books whose individual titles were published between 76 and 79, and are 'The Riddle Master of Hed,' 'Heir of Sea and Fire,' and 'Harpist on the Wind.' Her use of language, which is always good, is singularly good here, and her ideas brought to fruition without a hint of artifice.
posted by rebirtha at 11:43 PM on November 18, 2005
posted by rebirtha at 11:43 PM on November 18, 2005
The "Inheritance Trilogy" is quite Tolkein-esque. Book one, Eragon, and book two, Eldest, are currently out. I've enjoyed both of them, and look forward to the final book, and rest of Paolini's career (he's currently like 21).
posted by istewart at 11:48 PM on November 18, 2005
posted by istewart at 11:48 PM on November 18, 2005
Man oh man do I recommend Harry Potter. But to throw a new link in the pile, I've liked the Sword of Truth series by Goodkind, not nearly as popular as George R.R. Martin but definitely an epic series with adult themes.
If you haven't read Dune you should check that out too.
posted by onalark at 12:00 AM on November 19, 2005
If you haven't read Dune you should check that out too.
posted by onalark at 12:00 AM on November 19, 2005
I'm going to agree with what others have said about The Wheel of Time series. It was a complete and utter let down, absolutely none of the qualities that made Lord of the Rings great.
I'll second or third Martin's A Game of Thrones. It is excellent, although pretty dang long. I've been listening to the audio books read by Roy Datrice; he does a great job.
You should also check out the Dune series, at least the first 3 books or so, it gets alittle bit out there after that imo.
I'm not sure If I would read the Sword of Truth series, it is okay for the first book or two, but it is amazing what he does to extend the series. Every book seems to have no possible continuation to it, but he finds a way!
I'd also recommend Patrick O'brian's The Aubrey/Maturin Series (Master and Commander), there is definetly alot of adventure.
posted by meta87 at 12:08 AM on November 19, 2005
I'll second or third Martin's A Game of Thrones. It is excellent, although pretty dang long. I've been listening to the audio books read by Roy Datrice; he does a great job.
You should also check out the Dune series, at least the first 3 books or so, it gets alittle bit out there after that imo.
I'm not sure If I would read the Sword of Truth series, it is okay for the first book or two, but it is amazing what he does to extend the series. Every book seems to have no possible continuation to it, but he finds a way!
I'd also recommend Patrick O'brian's The Aubrey/Maturin Series (Master and Commander), there is definetly alot of adventure.
posted by meta87 at 12:08 AM on November 19, 2005
Riverworld was really excellent for the first book. The rest? Eh.
If you want truly epic, I really liked Seamus Heaney's (spelling?) Beowulf and Tennyson's King Arthur (Idylls of the King). I found the LotR to be very flat in character and plotting, while both of the above were more lyrical and rich in language (not linguistics). If you need a sequel to Beowulf, try Grendel by John Gardner.
posted by klangklangston at 12:22 AM on November 19, 2005
If you want truly epic, I really liked Seamus Heaney's (spelling?) Beowulf and Tennyson's King Arthur (Idylls of the King). I found the LotR to be very flat in character and plotting, while both of the above were more lyrical and rich in language (not linguistics). If you need a sequel to Beowulf, try Grendel by John Gardner.
posted by klangklangston at 12:22 AM on November 19, 2005
I recently started rereading Feist's Riftwar saga and I'm amazed at how just bad they are compared to what I remember reading when I was 14. But, I remember the books he wrote with coauthor Janny Wurts as being much better. Featuring realistic female characters, even!
And I just spent about 10 minutes finding the name of The Death Gate Cycle series by Margaret Weis that I recall as being good. I'll have to find my copies to see if they're as disappointing as Feist was.
David Eddings and Terry Brooks might be worth checking out, too.
posted by stavrogin at 12:23 AM on November 19, 2005
And I just spent about 10 minutes finding the name of The Death Gate Cycle series by Margaret Weis that I recall as being good. I'll have to find my copies to see if they're as disappointing as Feist was.
David Eddings and Terry Brooks might be worth checking out, too.
posted by stavrogin at 12:23 AM on November 19, 2005
The Years of Rice and Salt by Stanley Kim Robinson is quite epic, in that it takes places over centuries. It imagines a world where the plague in the 13th Century killed off most of Europe. It follows a small group of people through their reincarnations over time, exploring how the world would have developed without Europe.
I really don't like fantasy or most science fiction writing and am fairly snooty when it comes to literature, but I loved this novel. So if you see yourself in that statement at all, then this might be a good novel to look at.
posted by Falconetti at 12:24 AM on November 19, 2005
I really don't like fantasy or most science fiction writing and am fairly snooty when it comes to literature, but I loved this novel. So if you see yourself in that statement at all, then this might be a good novel to look at.
posted by Falconetti at 12:24 AM on November 19, 2005
I've at least started reading many of the recommendations above and, well, cant really recommend them: Jordan, for example, is a horrible writer.
One exception: George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire. Pretty much agree with everything Ryvar says above. Deep, complex, fantastic, a rich world. A friend forced me to read it and it took me completely by surprise.
posted by vacapinta at 12:46 AM on November 19, 2005
One exception: George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire. Pretty much agree with everything Ryvar says above. Deep, complex, fantastic, a rich world. A friend forced me to read it and it took me completely by surprise.
posted by vacapinta at 12:46 AM on November 19, 2005
Sorry to add this in after the fact, but a lot of the other people who read Martin probably haven't finished book four (A Feast for Crows) yet, as it was released last week, and I thought it might be relevant to comment on the latest release.
To be blunt, it simply isn't quite up to the level of the other books. The problem is that book four has been in the works for five years, and eventually became so long (between 1400 and 2000 pages) that the publisher refused to publish it since they can't make much money on a book that size. Resultingly book four was split into two books, each focusing on a different set of characters over the same chronological period. The second half (A Dance of Dragons) will be published next year.
Outside of the generally depressing tone now that the realm's been beaten to shit twice over, two rather likeable characters committed the immediately fatal crimes of not being insanely interesting and not being absolutely critical figures in the plot. The exclusion of Daenarys, Jon Snow, Bran, Davos, and most especially Tyrion means that the only must-see point-of-view characters we get in book four are Arya for all of five minutes, and Jaime. Also a bit of neat stuff about Dorne and Oldtown. In short - the latest release is a bit of a B-sides compilation. Dunno if that affects your purchasing decisions, but I felt like I should qualify my above praise a bit.
posted by Ryvar at 1:12 AM on November 19, 2005
To be blunt, it simply isn't quite up to the level of the other books. The problem is that book four has been in the works for five years, and eventually became so long (between 1400 and 2000 pages) that the publisher refused to publish it since they can't make much money on a book that size. Resultingly book four was split into two books, each focusing on a different set of characters over the same chronological period. The second half (A Dance of Dragons) will be published next year.
Outside of the generally depressing tone now that the realm's been beaten to shit twice over, two rather likeable characters committed the immediately fatal crimes of not being insanely interesting and not being absolutely critical figures in the plot. The exclusion of Daenarys, Jon Snow, Bran, Davos, and most especially Tyrion means that the only must-see point-of-view characters we get in book four are Arya for all of five minutes, and Jaime. Also a bit of neat stuff about Dorne and Oldtown. In short - the latest release is a bit of a B-sides compilation. Dunno if that affects your purchasing decisions, but I felt like I should qualify my above praise a bit.
posted by Ryvar at 1:12 AM on November 19, 2005
I completely agree with jdroth that it is impossible to adequately answer this question without more input from mi6op. While there are no doubt people who will love all of George R. R. Martin, Susanna Clarke, Terry Brooks, Guy Gavriel Kay, Robert Jordan, Steven Erikson, and China Mieville, that isn't the way to bet. Without input we can't know which subset of the above mi6op is most likely to enjoy.
But when has that ever stopped us? So I'll go ahead and recommend:
George R. R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire". The first three are the last word in epic fantasy since Tolkien. Shame about the problems Martin had with the fourth book.
Guy Gavriel Kay. There is a reason he was picked to work on The Silmarillion.
China Mieville. Probably more steam-punkish than epic, but it's not like the boundaries are hard and fast.
posted by Justinian at 1:14 AM on November 19, 2005
But when has that ever stopped us? So I'll go ahead and recommend:
George R. R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire". The first three are the last word in epic fantasy since Tolkien. Shame about the problems Martin had with the fourth book.
Guy Gavriel Kay. There is a reason he was picked to work on The Silmarillion.
China Mieville. Probably more steam-punkish than epic, but it's not like the boundaries are hard and fast.
posted by Justinian at 1:14 AM on November 19, 2005
Ryvar beat me to it. Summarizing "A Feast for Crows" as a B-side compilation pretty much nails it. Martin's B-side is still much better than the best thing Robert Jordan has ever written but it's still problematical. I'll be devastated if he isn't back firing on all cylinders next volume.
posted by Justinian at 1:19 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by Justinian at 1:19 AM on November 19, 2005
How can we have got this far with nobody mentioning His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman.
Inspired story telling.
http://www.randomhouse.com/features/pullman/
I'm in my thirties and loved them, even if they are aimed more for younger readers (as is, I suppose, LoTR).
posted by bystander at 1:20 AM on November 19, 2005
Inspired story telling.
http://www.randomhouse.com/features/pullman/
I'm in my thirties and loved them, even if they are aimed more for younger readers (as is, I suppose, LoTR).
posted by bystander at 1:20 AM on November 19, 2005
David Eddings' Belgariad is a five-novel epic in the same vein. I think his writing targets a young adult age, so it might be too corny for an adult. It's a tough call. I enjoyed it at 16, but got a little tired of it by age 20. Grab the first book, Pawn of Prophecy, from the library and see if it pulls you in.
posted by knave at 2:07 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by knave at 2:07 AM on November 19, 2005
seconding the Philip Pullman recommendation: the His Dark Materials trilogy is wonderful. Best read in trilogy order, so start with The Golden Compass. Certainly on a par with LoTR for plot, characters & quality of writing (I'm in my 60s and loved re-reading them this summer.) I haven't enjoyed earlier Pullman books as much, but with HDM he seems really to have got into a good writing space.
posted by anadem at 3:46 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by anadem at 3:46 AM on November 19, 2005
A bit out from left field, but Jacqueline Carey's "Kushiel's Dart" series, is a very unusual take on a Medieval European epic. The main character has been trained as a Courtesan in a world where that is a highly respected profession. It has a completely developed history of Europe and the Middle East from around the first century to about the 12th. Almost everything in it is a "What if things had developed this way" with all the implications extremely well developed. I found this gripping.
posted by Wilder at 3:52 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by Wilder at 3:52 AM on November 19, 2005
I recommend the "Memory, Sorrow & Thorn" trilogy (The Dragonbone Chair, Stone of Farewell, To Green Angel Tower) by Tad Williams. The author is also in the process of writing another series called Shadowmarch. You can read the first five chapters here to see if you like his writing.
(Williams has also written a series called Otherland but that's more Science Fiction than fantasy, I guess.)
posted by amf at 3:57 AM on November 19, 2005
(Williams has also written a series called Otherland but that's more Science Fiction than fantasy, I guess.)
posted by amf at 3:57 AM on November 19, 2005
I second The Inheritance Trilogy. It's classified as juvenile fiction so it's not quite as "hard core" as some other fantasy reads. But the story is great- it's amazing how much action is crammed into each book. (I've listened to them both as audiobooks and the second one, Eldest, took two months' Audible credit- they're pretty long). I'm having a hard time waiting for the third book.
posted by wallaby at 4:06 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by wallaby at 4:06 AM on November 19, 2005
Harry Harrison's The Hammer and the Cross series.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:23 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:23 AM on November 19, 2005
I'm surprised no one has suggestion the Earthsea series by Ursula LeGuin. It's a totally different universe than tolkien, meaning not a carbon copy of elves and dwarfs, etc, and is very modern (it brings up issues of race and gender). It started as a trilogy and has grown to 6 or 7 books. It must be hugo award winner. It's a classic. Like tolkien, it's good for all ages. Harry Potter is good for all ages but is aimed at kids. EarthSea is for an older audience but kids could read it.
posted by about_time at 5:23 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by about_time at 5:23 AM on November 19, 2005
CS Lewis has written some very good fantasy. If you know anything about him, he and Tolkien were not only contemporaries, but members of the same authors club. Each were disappointed that they couldn't find good fantasy to read, so they decided to write some. The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings (not originally a trilogy) are both products of that effort. So is The Chronicles of Narnia. Do some digging on Lewis and see what you find. I remember when I was in grade school I read a sci-fi trillogy authored by Lewis. I suspect there are others from that group that authored other works of interest to you.
posted by kc0dxh at 5:54 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by kc0dxh at 5:54 AM on November 19, 2005
The Dragonlance Chronicles and the followup, Dragonlance Legends, were good reads. They're D&D books, but I never played D&D (honestly!) and I still enjoyed the series very much.
posted by Gator at 6:08 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by Gator at 6:08 AM on November 19, 2005
I suspect there are others from that group that authored other works of interest to you.
The other "Inkling" was Charles Williams, though what I've read of him is in a very different vein from Tolkien and Lewis.
I heartily recommend The Worm Ouroboros by E. R. Eddison, which actually predates The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien was a fan.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:08 AM on November 19, 2005
The other "Inkling" was Charles Williams, though what I've read of him is in a very different vein from Tolkien and Lewis.
I heartily recommend The Worm Ouroboros by E. R. Eddison, which actually predates The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien was a fan.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:08 AM on November 19, 2005
"War and Peace" by Leo Tolstoy.
"One Hundred Years of Solitude" by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
"Metropolitan", followed by "City on Fire" by Walter Jon Williams
I think many Dickens novels would qualify -- as would some Thackery and Dumas.
Like many here, I love the George R. R. Martin books.
posted by grumblebee at 6:29 AM on November 19, 2005
"One Hundred Years of Solitude" by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
"Metropolitan", followed by "City on Fire" by Walter Jon Williams
I think many Dickens novels would qualify -- as would some Thackery and Dumas.
Like many here, I love the George R. R. Martin books.
posted by grumblebee at 6:29 AM on November 19, 2005
I'll second the Belgariad. Yes, a young adulthood fave, but I still love it ("Wolf" in my name is after one of the characters in the Belgariad). The characters are almost immediately affecting, what with their loving banter, and the story does build to an epic conclusion.
Even though it's almost exactly the same story, Edding's second 5-book work in the same world, the Mallorean, is also fun.
posted by WolfDaddy at 6:36 AM on November 19, 2005
Even though it's almost exactly the same story, Edding's second 5-book work in the same world, the Mallorean, is also fun.
posted by WolfDaddy at 6:36 AM on November 19, 2005
Dennis McKiernan's Iron Tower trilogy is very similar to the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. He's written a bunch of other novels set in the same world as well. Voyage of the Fox Rider and Eye of the Hunter are both excellent.
posted by euphorb at 6:40 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by euphorb at 6:40 AM on November 19, 2005
Response by poster: I have read the Song of Fire and Ice Series and love it. I'm currently on a waiting list at a local library for book 4. In answer to jdroth I'm 24 and I've read Tolkien, George R.R. Martin's series and a some murder mystery type books by a Patrick A. Davis, whom I reccommend if anyone is into a military based murder mystery style or just a well written murder mystery in general.
I guess what I liked about Tolkien was the great character development and the great heroic feats that happend within. Thats probably another reason I love the Song of Fire and Ice series with its insane character development and the vast amount of small stories going on at once.
posted by mi6op at 6:50 AM on November 19, 2005
I guess what I liked about Tolkien was the great character development and the great heroic feats that happend within. Thats probably another reason I love the Song of Fire and Ice series with its insane character development and the vast amount of small stories going on at once.
posted by mi6op at 6:50 AM on November 19, 2005
The already-mentioned "Gormenghast Trilogy" is the final word on fantastic literature. Beautiful writing, bizarre imagery, wildly eccentric yet complex characters, wonderful use of mood and menace... the final installment, "Titus Alone", loses it a bit (largely because poor old Peake was losing it himself at the time) but it's still fascinating.
Mind you, I say that as a person who loathes "Lord of the Rings" with a passion which transcends all human understanding.
posted by Decani at 6:52 AM on November 19, 2005
Mind you, I say that as a person who loathes "Lord of the Rings" with a passion which transcends all human understanding.
posted by Decani at 6:52 AM on November 19, 2005
Response by poster: A friend and librarian recommended Eragon. It's the first in a series of 2 so far. Anyone ever read it?
posted by mi6op at 6:55 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by mi6op at 6:55 AM on November 19, 2005
mi6op, that's the Inheritance series I was talking about. (istewart mentioned it first). Good stuff.
posted by wallaby at 7:07 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by wallaby at 7:07 AM on November 19, 2005
I can't recommend the Kalevala enough. Unless you hate poetry.
posted by ktrey at 7:07 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by ktrey at 7:07 AM on November 19, 2005
Most of my favorites are above, but I'll throw in Julian May's Saga of the Pliocene Exile, starting with The Many-Colored Land. Technically, it's science fiction, but with enough psionics to double as fantasy. Certainly epic!
posted by Aknaton at 7:17 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by Aknaton at 7:17 AM on November 19, 2005
We've had many of the usual suspects suggested---not that I criticize, they are suggested because many are well worth the time---but I thought I might suggest some lesser-known works.
The "scavenger" trilogy by K.J. Parker, Shadow, Pattern and Memory is the story of a man, or maybe a god, who may (or may not) be bringing about the end of the world. The end of all things, the futility of all action, the turning of all good to evil are her themes. Grim, but very well written. Parker outdoes Martin for bleakness.
A second pair: The High House and The False House by James Stoddard. Very much in the same moral space as Tolkein or Lewis with the same sense of scale, these books have a mythology borrowed heavily from Christianity. Stoddard's plot and setting have nothing to do with either Middle-earth or Narnia, but is more like either of those pair than Brooks or his ilk. The heroes of these books labour mightily, but like Tolkein, there is the sense that they labour at best to preserve, while inevitably losing the larger war. Hopeful, but shot-through with grief.
Finally Garth Nix is a very promising new(ish) writer. His Sabriel, Lirel and Abhorsen are excellent books. They are often relegated to the Young Adult section, but don't let that stop you. Nix is the anti-Parker: change is growth, even death is a positive force in his cosmology.
So three very different books, none of which dig through Tolkein's leavings. Parker's setting is early mediaeval, Nix's is an alternate, hidden Britain, and Stoddard's House is wildly unlike anything I've every read.
posted by bonehead at 7:22 AM on November 19, 2005
The "scavenger" trilogy by K.J. Parker, Shadow, Pattern and Memory is the story of a man, or maybe a god, who may (or may not) be bringing about the end of the world. The end of all things, the futility of all action, the turning of all good to evil are her themes. Grim, but very well written. Parker outdoes Martin for bleakness.
A second pair: The High House and The False House by James Stoddard. Very much in the same moral space as Tolkein or Lewis with the same sense of scale, these books have a mythology borrowed heavily from Christianity. Stoddard's plot and setting have nothing to do with either Middle-earth or Narnia, but is more like either of those pair than Brooks or his ilk. The heroes of these books labour mightily, but like Tolkein, there is the sense that they labour at best to preserve, while inevitably losing the larger war. Hopeful, but shot-through with grief.
Finally Garth Nix is a very promising new(ish) writer. His Sabriel, Lirel and Abhorsen are excellent books. They are often relegated to the Young Adult section, but don't let that stop you. Nix is the anti-Parker: change is growth, even death is a positive force in his cosmology.
So three very different books, none of which dig through Tolkein's leavings. Parker's setting is early mediaeval, Nix's is an alternate, hidden Britain, and Stoddard's House is wildly unlike anything I've every read.
posted by bonehead at 7:22 AM on November 19, 2005
i thought the first book of jordan's wheel of time series was excellent ... the 2nd very good ... the 3rd pretty good ... the 4th ok ... i got up to book 8, i think, all the time wondering, when is he going to end this damn thing?
he drove it right into the ground
i'm not sure i'd call it epic, but james branch cabell's books are a different, ironic kind of fantasy ... many of his books are intertwined in complex ways
if you haven't read homer or some of the norse sagas, you might enjoy them
posted by pyramid termite at 7:27 AM on November 19, 2005
he drove it right into the ground
i'm not sure i'd call it epic, but james branch cabell's books are a different, ironic kind of fantasy ... many of his books are intertwined in complex ways
if you haven't read homer or some of the norse sagas, you might enjoy them
posted by pyramid termite at 7:27 AM on November 19, 2005
Re: Sword of Truth series. IMHO, the first few were pretty pretty good, then started to fade off, and I think around Faith of the Fallen (I've been reading the series since it came out, so hard to keep track), Goodkind got on this whole obnoxious philosophical bend which took away from his overall writing; reminiscent of Ayn Rand where by the end I was like, "OK, I GET THE PICTURE!! NOW, CAN HE HAVE A PLOT (or insert literary quality here) NOW!?" I've heard his latest book gets back to the basics, but I haven't go around to reading it.
I would also highly recommend Roger Zelazny's The Great Book of Amber. It's 10 books in all, with the first 5 (and better, methinks) being it's own story-line, and the 2nd five following up the first 5, but being pretty much a whole new arc. Awesome stuff.
I am currently reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series, which consists of 7 books IIRC. So far, not too shabby. It might also help if you've read some of his other books, as apparently his series spans across terrain from his other novels (I haven't read any other King before).
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but how about the Harry Potter series? I read that and George RR Martin over the summer, and alternated between the two. Each Martin book was quite heavy, so I read easy (Potter) and then heavy (Martin).
Along the same line of Harry Potter (easier fantasy reading), there is always the Forgotten Realms stuff with RA Salvatore and his creation, Drizzt Do’Urden. It's in the same vain as Dragonlance, only he has entire trilogies centered around just Drizzt whereas Dragonlance is basically centered around Paladin vs. Takhisis set with different character.
posted by jmd82 at 7:32 AM on November 19, 2005
I would also highly recommend Roger Zelazny's The Great Book of Amber. It's 10 books in all, with the first 5 (and better, methinks) being it's own story-line, and the 2nd five following up the first 5, but being pretty much a whole new arc. Awesome stuff.
I am currently reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series, which consists of 7 books IIRC. So far, not too shabby. It might also help if you've read some of his other books, as apparently his series spans across terrain from his other novels (I haven't read any other King before).
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but how about the Harry Potter series? I read that and George RR Martin over the summer, and alternated between the two. Each Martin book was quite heavy, so I read easy (Potter) and then heavy (Martin).
Along the same line of Harry Potter (easier fantasy reading), there is always the Forgotten Realms stuff with RA Salvatore and his creation, Drizzt Do’Urden. It's in the same vain as Dragonlance, only he has entire trilogies centered around just Drizzt whereas Dragonlance is basically centered around Paladin vs. Takhisis set with different character.
posted by jmd82 at 7:32 AM on November 19, 2005
Oh, and re: Dragonlance trilogy. The original 3 were awesome, but stay away from the War of Souls trilogy; your time would be much better spent on another part of the Dragonlance world such as the aforementioned Legends or a different series.
posted by jmd82 at 7:36 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by jmd82 at 7:36 AM on November 19, 2005
Carol Berg - The Rai-kirah trilogy (Transformation, Revelation, and Restoration) and the new series - The Bridge of D'Arnath (Son of Avonar, Guardians of the Keep, The Soul Weaver, Daughter of Ancients) - all very enjoyable.
posted by Zeedog at 7:50 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by Zeedog at 7:50 AM on November 19, 2005
I'm on the 4th book of Steven King's Dark Tower series. It may be that I'm knee deep in the series right now, but I would throw that out as a recommendation. I'm highly enjoying it.
posted by punkrockrat at 7:59 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by punkrockrat at 7:59 AM on November 19, 2005
I guess what I liked about Tolkien was the great character development and the great heroic feats that happend within. Thats probably another reason I love the Song of Fire and Ice series with its insane character development and the vast amount of small stories going on at once.
In that case, I really would recommend Robert Jordan. He meets these needs. The first book or two can be great fun to read because they're filled with fun ideas. (Though, to be honest, I mostly kept thinking that the series was like Dune but in a fantasy environment.) There's a good chance, though, that you'll eventually find the writing tedious. This is a long series and not well-written. If the writing doesn't bug you, then fantastic: keep reading it, because I think it's the kind of thing you're looking for. If the writing does bug you, just stop wherever you are. No harm, no foul.
Other than that, I'd recommend David Eddings series that starts with Pawn of Prophecy. (Haven't read it in twenty years, but remember it as fun and twisty with lots of heroism.)
posted by jdroth at 8:01 AM on November 19, 2005
In that case, I really would recommend Robert Jordan. He meets these needs. The first book or two can be great fun to read because they're filled with fun ideas. (Though, to be honest, I mostly kept thinking that the series was like Dune but in a fantasy environment.) There's a good chance, though, that you'll eventually find the writing tedious. This is a long series and not well-written. If the writing doesn't bug you, then fantastic: keep reading it, because I think it's the kind of thing you're looking for. If the writing does bug you, just stop wherever you are. No harm, no foul.
Other than that, I'd recommend David Eddings series that starts with Pawn of Prophecy. (Haven't read it in twenty years, but remember it as fun and twisty with lots of heroism.)
posted by jdroth at 8:01 AM on November 19, 2005
I know it's a bit of a different genre, but I would heartily second The Mahabharata, particularly the novelization by Manesh Ranon. It is absolutely stunning and left me in gasping tears by the end. In case you are worried about the religiosity (it is one of the Great Hindu Epics), I'm not Hindu, and that made little difference. You don't need to have heard of these characters beforehand.
posted by arcticwoman at 8:13 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by arcticwoman at 8:13 AM on November 19, 2005
Fred Saberhagen's Empire of the East is quite beautiful with a number of ideas I hadn't seen elsewhere. It ties into his Books of Swords too, which were all right but not as great as so many things listed.
How come nobody has brought up Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun? Again, technically science fiction. Better written than almost anything on this list.
posted by Aknaton at 8:25 AM on November 19, 2005
How come nobody has brought up Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun? Again, technically science fiction. Better written than almost anything on this list.
posted by Aknaton at 8:25 AM on November 19, 2005
In Jordan's defense, his latest release was much better than the last three. It seems someone kicked him in the backside and told him to stop dragging his feet on all his storylines and work towards a conclusion. I also think another symptom for Jordan readers is that one had to wait a couple years for each book. Then around the last three or so, Jordan got himself complicated in multiple storylines and characters, and entirely slowed himself down. There simply was not enough progression in the plot in relationship with the time given. That said, in the last two, I did skim past a few paragraphs at a time that I felt were superfluous (otherwise, the book was much better). I think, if someone can simply pick up the next book after the last without waiting, the series should prove a lot more entertaining.
Now for a couple suggestions...
Not so well known these days is Melanie Rawn. She wrote two large trilogies that take place in the same fantasy world of her creation. The first book is The Dragon Prince. I read these back in highschool, but I still remember them fondly for their characters and storylines. They're also cross-generational, you move forward in chronology in the second trilogy.
Another author which I found fascinating, though I'm not sure if she ever found much widespread acclaim is Katharine Kerr. She also created, what I felt, were entertaining characters and storylines. Here's one of the earlier books in the series (but blast me, I can't recall the first), Days of Blood and Fire.
posted by Atreides at 8:25 AM on November 19, 2005
Now for a couple suggestions...
Not so well known these days is Melanie Rawn. She wrote two large trilogies that take place in the same fantasy world of her creation. The first book is The Dragon Prince. I read these back in highschool, but I still remember them fondly for their characters and storylines. They're also cross-generational, you move forward in chronology in the second trilogy.
Another author which I found fascinating, though I'm not sure if she ever found much widespread acclaim is Katharine Kerr. She also created, what I felt, were entertaining characters and storylines. Here's one of the earlier books in the series (but blast me, I can't recall the first), Days of Blood and Fire.
posted by Atreides at 8:25 AM on November 19, 2005
Regarding Gormenghast: I have just read this trilogy and have completely failed to understand why it is so often recommended to people who have enjoyed Tolkien! The two 'trilogies' (neither actually is one) have almost nothing in common. Read Gormenghast if you want to revel in the poetic use of language to describe a menagerie of freaks and to richly detail tableaux that the author didn't have time to paint, but don't expect anything that would commonly be described as "Epic Fantasy".
If what you like about Tolkien's work is the exciting story and the somewhat-familiar fantastic setting, the dragons and elves and trolls etc, then there are many great suggestions above. The Dungeon and Dragons-based books (Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance) tend to be a surprisingly good read, and when I read David Eddings' books I found them to be real page-turners. The one problem that many of these books has is the debt they owe to Tolkien in terms of plot and setting. I find that that gets wearing after a while, so I've been reading some older books.
I am currently reading "The King of Elfland's Daughter" by Lord Dunsany; a pre-Tolkien fantasy with a 'fairy-tale' kind of atmosphere and some of the most beautiful, lyrical language I have ever read. Similar modern books might be "Stardust" by Neil Gaiman (which reads as an homage to Dunsany) and "The Eyes of the Dragon" by Stephen King.
On the swords-and-sworcery side, the greatest.stories.evar are undoubtedly the Lankhmar series of Fritz Lieber; short stories that started appearing in the 1940s and are now available collected. In addition to being hugely entertaining, I found it interesting to find that the things that were cliches when I was playing D&D many years ago were also cliches BEFORE Tolkein wrote about them!
Finally, the only epic series that I have read that I have enjoyed MORE than Tolkien is a series of books by Gene Wolfe. It's the Book of the New Sun (4 novels, now available in two volumes), The Urth of the New Sun (single novel), The Book of the Long Sun (4 novels, now available in two volumes) and The Book of the Short Sun (3 novels). It's science-fiction, but in a distant-future, low technology kind of way, and the books are for the most part written in the first-person with a narrator who doesn't know the difference between technology and magic. It's not easy reading - Wolfe expects his reader to work to understand what's going on and makes a lot of use of foreshadowing and, as far as I can tell, is also liberal with the red herrings, and the narrator is unreliable (and biased) and so not to be trusted by the reader. That's enjoyable, but the real strength of the books is that the characters are so real you feel you genuinely get to know them, and the universe they're in so imaginative and richly-detailed that as a whole I can hold them up and say that they're the equal of Tolkien's work. (Tolkien's world is an even greater work of imagination, but he's just not as good a writer.)
posted by nowonmai at 8:26 AM on November 19, 2005
If what you like about Tolkien's work is the exciting story and the somewhat-familiar fantastic setting, the dragons and elves and trolls etc, then there are many great suggestions above. The Dungeon and Dragons-based books (Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance) tend to be a surprisingly good read, and when I read David Eddings' books I found them to be real page-turners. The one problem that many of these books has is the debt they owe to Tolkien in terms of plot and setting. I find that that gets wearing after a while, so I've been reading some older books.
I am currently reading "The King of Elfland's Daughter" by Lord Dunsany; a pre-Tolkien fantasy with a 'fairy-tale' kind of atmosphere and some of the most beautiful, lyrical language I have ever read. Similar modern books might be "Stardust" by Neil Gaiman (which reads as an homage to Dunsany) and "The Eyes of the Dragon" by Stephen King.
On the swords-and-sworcery side, the greatest.stories.evar are undoubtedly the Lankhmar series of Fritz Lieber; short stories that started appearing in the 1940s and are now available collected. In addition to being hugely entertaining, I found it interesting to find that the things that were cliches when I was playing D&D many years ago were also cliches BEFORE Tolkein wrote about them!
Finally, the only epic series that I have read that I have enjoyed MORE than Tolkien is a series of books by Gene Wolfe. It's the Book of the New Sun (4 novels, now available in two volumes), The Urth of the New Sun (single novel), The Book of the Long Sun (4 novels, now available in two volumes) and The Book of the Short Sun (3 novels). It's science-fiction, but in a distant-future, low technology kind of way, and the books are for the most part written in the first-person with a narrator who doesn't know the difference between technology and magic. It's not easy reading - Wolfe expects his reader to work to understand what's going on and makes a lot of use of foreshadowing and, as far as I can tell, is also liberal with the red herrings, and the narrator is unreliable (and biased) and so not to be trusted by the reader. That's enjoyable, but the real strength of the books is that the characters are so real you feel you genuinely get to know them, and the universe they're in so imaginative and richly-detailed that as a whole I can hold them up and say that they're the equal of Tolkien's work. (Tolkien's world is an even greater work of imagination, but he's just not as good a writer.)
posted by nowonmai at 8:26 AM on November 19, 2005
arcticwoman : "I would heartily second The Mahabharata, particularly the novelization by Manesh Ranon"
Can you clarify the author's name? If he's Indian, that name is weird.
posted by Gyan at 8:49 AM on November 19, 2005
Can you clarify the author's name? If he's Indian, that name is weird.
posted by Gyan at 8:49 AM on November 19, 2005
I'm a lifelong Tolkien fanatic, and nobody else comes close. I've always found reading similarly couched works suffer by comparison. With that in mind, I highly recommend continuing on through the Silmarillion, The Unfinished Tales, and the Lost Tales of Middle-Earth. I petered out somewhere in the second volume of Lost Tales, the material becoming largely alternate versions of previously told tales.
George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire is a gripping read, but ultimately I felt let down by the lack of overall structure. I finished the third book with little desire to continue on, as it simply felt like it was not headed towards any kind of resolution. I could never take more than a couple chapters of any of the other contenders like Belgariad or Wheel of Time.
So, my recommendations are for other works that are the best at what they are trying to pull off, but have a very distinct flavor from Tolkien:
The Dune Series by Frank Herbert (read to God Emperor)
The Pern Series by Anne McCaffrey (read to the White Dragon)
The DragonSinger Series by Anne McCaffrey
Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny
The Amber Chronicles by Roger Zelazny (read to Courts of Chaos)
Riverworld by Philip Jose Farmer (The final book is a letdown, but a worthwhile ride to there.
The Hope Series by David Feintuch
posted by Manjusri at 9:52 AM on November 19, 2005
George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire is a gripping read, but ultimately I felt let down by the lack of overall structure. I finished the third book with little desire to continue on, as it simply felt like it was not headed towards any kind of resolution. I could never take more than a couple chapters of any of the other contenders like Belgariad or Wheel of Time.
So, my recommendations are for other works that are the best at what they are trying to pull off, but have a very distinct flavor from Tolkien:
The Dune Series by Frank Herbert (read to God Emperor)
The Pern Series by Anne McCaffrey (read to the White Dragon)
The DragonSinger Series by Anne McCaffrey
Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny
The Amber Chronicles by Roger Zelazny (read to Courts of Chaos)
Riverworld by Philip Jose Farmer (The final book is a letdown, but a worthwhile ride to there.
The Hope Series by David Feintuch
posted by Manjusri at 9:52 AM on November 19, 2005
Yes, Dune! Yes, Discworld! It's sillier but awesome.
And as jmd82 and others say, YES YES YES, Stephen King's Dark Tower series. I'm in the middle of book 5 on audiobook, and I'm totally obsessed with it. It's far better than I thought it would be, and I've been a King fan since I was a kid. There are characters that cross over from his other books (Salem's Lot, for example) but you absolutely do not need to have read those books. You should, on the other hand, read the Dark Tower books in order.
And what about the Chronicles of Narnia? Quick read, but very engaging. Check the internets for much discussion on which order they should go in, or just read them in the order they are numbered.
Someone recommended Heaney's translation of Beowulf; my sister (currently in high school) is hating that translation but I really, really liked Stanley Greenfield's translation. If you do pick up Beowulf in any form and hate it, try a different translation before you give up. It does make a difference.
If graphic novels are an option, try Sandman by Neil Gaiman, as well as the assorted related works by him and others. Someone else mentioned Stardust, which is also good; he also did American Gods, which I adored, and his new book is Anansi Boys. I haven't read it yet but I am totally confident that it is great.
I've heard a lot about but not yet read China Mieville and George R.R. Martin; I trust the folks who've recommended them (there are a lot of nerds with good taste in books in library school! Who knew?) so they're on my list and I'd say you could put them on yours too.
posted by librarina at 10:13 AM on November 19, 2005
And as jmd82 and others say, YES YES YES, Stephen King's Dark Tower series. I'm in the middle of book 5 on audiobook, and I'm totally obsessed with it. It's far better than I thought it would be, and I've been a King fan since I was a kid. There are characters that cross over from his other books (Salem's Lot, for example) but you absolutely do not need to have read those books. You should, on the other hand, read the Dark Tower books in order.
And what about the Chronicles of Narnia? Quick read, but very engaging. Check the internets for much discussion on which order they should go in, or just read them in the order they are numbered.
Someone recommended Heaney's translation of Beowulf; my sister (currently in high school) is hating that translation but I really, really liked Stanley Greenfield's translation. If you do pick up Beowulf in any form and hate it, try a different translation before you give up. It does make a difference.
If graphic novels are an option, try Sandman by Neil Gaiman, as well as the assorted related works by him and others. Someone else mentioned Stardust, which is also good; he also did American Gods, which I adored, and his new book is Anansi Boys. I haven't read it yet but I am totally confident that it is great.
I've heard a lot about but not yet read China Mieville and George R.R. Martin; I trust the folks who've recommended them (there are a lot of nerds with good taste in books in library school! Who knew?) so they're on my list and I'd say you could put them on yours too.
posted by librarina at 10:13 AM on November 19, 2005
I'm a lifelong Tolkien fanatic, and nobody else comes close. I've always found reading similarly couched works suffer by comparison.
Though I'm not a Tolkien fanatic, I must second this statement. Tolkien is in a class by himself. His work has a texture and a sweep that is missing in other fantasy, and I believe this is largely because he a) was a technically superb writer and b) created his world from the rich tapestry of northern European mythology. As Manjusri says: nothing even comes close.
Regarding Gormenghast: these books are an acquired taste. Peake is not a terrible writer, but he's idiosyncratic. The series moves at a glacial pace and is filled with all sorts of oddments. Also, there's nothing heroic about them.
Somebody else mentioned Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey/Maturin books, and believe it or not I feel these are the best inheritance to Tolkien. There's absolutely zero fantasy involved, but they're filled with adventure, with heroic characters, and all sorts of rollicking good times. There's something of a learning curve with the nautical terms, but if you can get past that, you have 20-1/4 books to enjoy. (Or, if you're like me, you have six books to enjoy, seven books to be amused by, and 7-1/4 books to think "this series is going downhill".)
posted by jdroth at 10:15 AM on November 19, 2005
Though I'm not a Tolkien fanatic, I must second this statement. Tolkien is in a class by himself. His work has a texture and a sweep that is missing in other fantasy, and I believe this is largely because he a) was a technically superb writer and b) created his world from the rich tapestry of northern European mythology. As Manjusri says: nothing even comes close.
Regarding Gormenghast: these books are an acquired taste. Peake is not a terrible writer, but he's idiosyncratic. The series moves at a glacial pace and is filled with all sorts of oddments. Also, there's nothing heroic about them.
Somebody else mentioned Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey/Maturin books, and believe it or not I feel these are the best inheritance to Tolkien. There's absolutely zero fantasy involved, but they're filled with adventure, with heroic characters, and all sorts of rollicking good times. There's something of a learning curve with the nautical terms, but if you can get past that, you have 20-1/4 books to enjoy. (Or, if you're like me, you have six books to enjoy, seven books to be amused by, and 7-1/4 books to think "this series is going downhill".)
posted by jdroth at 10:15 AM on November 19, 2005
If you wanna mention CS Lewis, I guess it wouldn't hurt to mention L. Frank Baum and all the OZ books. Sure it's kid's stuff, but really epic. And at times, not really as shiny and happy as the movie.
posted by CrazyJoel at 10:22 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by CrazyJoel at 10:22 AM on November 19, 2005
Also, it occurs to me that if you want something similar to watch, rather than read, you could check out Buffy and Firefly. If Joss Whedon wrote books, they would be epic fantasy/adventure; his shows are the same thing in smaller increments.
On preview, yes, thanks for mentioning those, CrazyJoel -- I haven't read them yet but plan to.
posted by librarina at 10:25 AM on November 19, 2005
On preview, yes, thanks for mentioning those, CrazyJoel -- I haven't read them yet but plan to.
posted by librarina at 10:25 AM on November 19, 2005
kc0dxh: according to my wife, that's the Out of the Silent Planet trilogy by CS Lewis.
posted by schustafa at 10:31 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by schustafa at 10:31 AM on November 19, 2005
I want to add my voice to those mentioning the Discworld series. If you like dry, British humor with your fantasy (and there are endless, subtle in-jokes at the expense of current Earth pop culture, too), Terry Pratchett is your man.
Several people have mentioned kids' or young adult books and series, like Harry Potter, Oz, and the David Eddings oeuvre. I've read all those and they're great, even for adults.
Another series I just remembered is the Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander. They, too, are classified as young adult, but they are wonderful and rooted in old Welsh mythology. The first in the series is The Book of Three and there are four books that follow in the series (one of which was The Black Cauldron, which was made into a Disney animated movie several years ago, but which I never saw so I don't know how faithful to the books it was -- probably not very). Full of magic and adventure, but like many of the best stories, not everyone who should live happily ever after does.
I'm sure you would also enjoy The Warlord Trilogy, which is not geared towards children. It's a retelling of the King Arthur myth, and is very realistic and brutal but also wonderfully heroic and even romantic and magical in places. It features such famous characters as Merlin, Lancelot (portrayed very differently from the way we all heard about him growing up), Guinevere, Galahad, Taleisin, Tristan and Iseult, and many more names from Arthurian legend. The very first line of the first book sucked me in with no hope of turning back: "Once upon a time, in a land that was called Britain, these things happened."
posted by Gator at 10:41 AM on November 19, 2005
Several people have mentioned kids' or young adult books and series, like Harry Potter, Oz, and the David Eddings oeuvre. I've read all those and they're great, even for adults.
Another series I just remembered is the Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander. They, too, are classified as young adult, but they are wonderful and rooted in old Welsh mythology. The first in the series is The Book of Three and there are four books that follow in the series (one of which was The Black Cauldron, which was made into a Disney animated movie several years ago, but which I never saw so I don't know how faithful to the books it was -- probably not very). Full of magic and adventure, but like many of the best stories, not everyone who should live happily ever after does.
I'm sure you would also enjoy The Warlord Trilogy, which is not geared towards children. It's a retelling of the King Arthur myth, and is very realistic and brutal but also wonderfully heroic and even romantic and magical in places. It features such famous characters as Merlin, Lancelot (portrayed very differently from the way we all heard about him growing up), Guinevere, Galahad, Taleisin, Tristan and Iseult, and many more names from Arthurian legend. The very first line of the first book sucked me in with no hope of turning back: "Once upon a time, in a land that was called Britain, these things happened."
posted by Gator at 10:41 AM on November 19, 2005
I think most of these have been recommended above but here you are anyway:
- Dune (series)
- Kushiel's Legacy (series)
- The Lions of al-Rassan (everything Kay writes is awesome)
- The Mists of Avalon (and the others in the series)
- Doomsday Book
posted by deborah at 10:45 AM on November 19, 2005
- Dune (series)
- Kushiel's Legacy (series)
- The Lions of al-Rassan (everything Kay writes is awesome)
- The Mists of Avalon (and the others in the series)
- Doomsday Book
posted by deborah at 10:45 AM on November 19, 2005
Assassin's Apprentice by Robin Hobb is terrific. The characters are well developed and the series is made up of two trilogies. To be fair, I read it almost ten years ago, but I remember that the story was gut wrenching. Lots of angst. The reviews can sum it up better than I.
posted by hooray at 10:56 AM on November 19, 2005
posted by hooray at 10:56 AM on November 19, 2005
I'll throw my two cents in:
Harry Potter -- avoid if you're looking for a Good book. I refer to them as Scooby Doo fantasy. ("I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those pesky kids!") Still, I've read them all. They're easy reads and enjoyable.
Strange & Norrell -- I found to be Dull & Boring. I enjoyed the elements of faerie, but man was it slow and with very little payoff.
Gormenghast -- I loved the first two books. I usually read very quickly and these took me months to finish, they're so dense and packed with linguistic and story-telling curliques. (Avoid the third, imho. He died tragically, early, and it was cobbled together from his notes.)
Tigana -- a fantastic book, very close in tone to LOTR, you'd probably like it (although I read another series by him... about a bunch of kids who get sucked into a fantasy world, which I thought was pretty soap-opera-y and forced)
Gene Wolfe -- I'm convinced this guy is a genius. I liked or loved all of the New Sun books. Just finished reading The Wizard Knight (a novel in two parts) and am, again, slightly confused and blown away. Half the fun of his books is finding a discussion (do a google search for his name to find a good usenet talk) where people try to figure out the puzzles he creates in his narratives.
Dune -- fantastic; I read them all and enjoyed most of it, but the first three are definitely the best
His Dark Materials -- not enough superlatives exist to overpraise these books (and the stage performance was fantastic)
Little, Big -- a literary faerie story that's slow going but worth the journey and (imho) the mark that Strange & Norrell was going for and missed (Mark Helprin has said that his "Winter's Tale," which is probably my favorite novel, was influenced by Crowley's book)
Veronica (by Nicholas Christopher) -- is a bizarre fantasy adventure that takes place in New York and an alternate reality and is worth reading (and then email me because I don't know anyone who's read it and would love to talk about it)
hooray -- thanks for mentioning Assassin's Apprentice. Sounds great.
posted by papercake at 11:24 AM on November 19, 2005
Harry Potter -- avoid if you're looking for a Good book. I refer to them as Scooby Doo fantasy. ("I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those pesky kids!") Still, I've read them all. They're easy reads and enjoyable.
Strange & Norrell -- I found to be Dull & Boring. I enjoyed the elements of faerie, but man was it slow and with very little payoff.
Gormenghast -- I loved the first two books. I usually read very quickly and these took me months to finish, they're so dense and packed with linguistic and story-telling curliques. (Avoid the third, imho. He died tragically, early, and it was cobbled together from his notes.)
Tigana -- a fantastic book, very close in tone to LOTR, you'd probably like it (although I read another series by him... about a bunch of kids who get sucked into a fantasy world, which I thought was pretty soap-opera-y and forced)
Gene Wolfe -- I'm convinced this guy is a genius. I liked or loved all of the New Sun books. Just finished reading The Wizard Knight (a novel in two parts) and am, again, slightly confused and blown away. Half the fun of his books is finding a discussion (do a google search for his name to find a good usenet talk) where people try to figure out the puzzles he creates in his narratives.
Dune -- fantastic; I read them all and enjoyed most of it, but the first three are definitely the best
His Dark Materials -- not enough superlatives exist to overpraise these books (and the stage performance was fantastic)
Little, Big -- a literary faerie story that's slow going but worth the journey and (imho) the mark that Strange & Norrell was going for and missed (Mark Helprin has said that his "Winter's Tale," which is probably my favorite novel, was influenced by Crowley's book)
Veronica (by Nicholas Christopher) -- is a bizarre fantasy adventure that takes place in New York and an alternate reality and is worth reading (and then email me because I don't know anyone who's read it and would love to talk about it)
hooray -- thanks for mentioning Assassin's Apprentice. Sounds great.
posted by papercake at 11:24 AM on November 19, 2005
I agree with those who have said that there have been too many bogo-Tolkienish series written, with slavish imitation but powered a tiny fraction of Tolkien's mastery of language and detail.
Pullman, Rowling, Le Guin, C.S. Lewis (beware the Christian allegory, but they have some nice moments), yes. Also T.H. White's The Once and Future King, part of which was dramatized as "The Sword in the Stone". If young-adult books aren't a problem you could also look for Alan Garner's and Susan Cooper's series, which deal in various ways with the magic of Arthurian legend cropping up in modern times.
To get back to U.S. authors, I remember enjoying Platt and DeCamp's Complete Enchanter too.
posted by zadcat at 12:24 PM on November 19, 2005
Pullman, Rowling, Le Guin, C.S. Lewis (beware the Christian allegory, but they have some nice moments), yes. Also T.H. White's The Once and Future King, part of which was dramatized as "The Sword in the Stone". If young-adult books aren't a problem you could also look for Alan Garner's and Susan Cooper's series, which deal in various ways with the magic of Arthurian legend cropping up in modern times.
To get back to U.S. authors, I remember enjoying Platt and DeCamp's Complete Enchanter too.
posted by zadcat at 12:24 PM on November 19, 2005
I'm suprised that Stephen R. Donaldson's Covenant series got only one mention above.
The first Covenant series (Lord Foul's Bane, the Illearth War, and The Power That Preserves) was artistic champion of the 1970s wave of post-Tolkien fiction: plainly inspired by his imaginativeness and characters, but also deeply appreciative of Tolkien's skepticism of power and abhorence of war. The contrast between a Donaldson, on the one hand, and a Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks, or David Eddings, on the other hand, couldn't be more sharp.
Aknaton's suggestion of Julian May's The Many Colored Land tetralogy is also very well made. It really is a combination of the best of fantasy and science fiction, and has a wonderful amount of imagination and human realness to it. However, the subsequently four (or five, depending on how you count) prequels show a dramatic fall-off -- adding nothing to the outline of their plots already drawn in the original Many Colored Land series.
posted by MattD at 12:52 PM on November 19, 2005
The first Covenant series (Lord Foul's Bane, the Illearth War, and The Power That Preserves) was artistic champion of the 1970s wave of post-Tolkien fiction: plainly inspired by his imaginativeness and characters, but also deeply appreciative of Tolkien's skepticism of power and abhorence of war. The contrast between a Donaldson, on the one hand, and a Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks, or David Eddings, on the other hand, couldn't be more sharp.
Aknaton's suggestion of Julian May's The Many Colored Land tetralogy is also very well made. It really is a combination of the best of fantasy and science fiction, and has a wonderful amount of imagination and human realness to it. However, the subsequently four (or five, depending on how you count) prequels show a dramatic fall-off -- adding nothing to the outline of their plots already drawn in the original Many Colored Land series.
posted by MattD at 12:52 PM on November 19, 2005
I have just read this trilogy [Gormenghast] and have completely failed to understand why it is so often recommended to people who have enjoyed Tolkien!
Me too. The differences are staggering. Peake is a wonderful writer with a dark and twisted imagination. The Gormenghast books are full of mad poetry, hidden depths and sinister beauty. Lord Of the Rings is overwritten, bombastic, humourless adolescent tripe.
posted by Decani at 1:18 PM on November 19, 2005
Me too. The differences are staggering. Peake is a wonderful writer with a dark and twisted imagination. The Gormenghast books are full of mad poetry, hidden depths and sinister beauty. Lord Of the Rings is overwritten, bombastic, humourless adolescent tripe.
posted by Decani at 1:18 PM on November 19, 2005
Lord Of the Rings is overwritten, bombastic, humourless adolescent tripe.
I find it hard to imagine any universe in which these words can be used for Tolkien's creation. For the film adaptation, absolutely, but not for the books. The books are literate, measured, subtle, and filled with humor. Adolescent? Jordan and Anthony maybe, but not Tolkien.
posted by jdroth at 1:48 PM on November 19, 2005
I find it hard to imagine any universe in which these words can be used for Tolkien's creation. For the film adaptation, absolutely, but not for the books. The books are literate, measured, subtle, and filled with humor. Adolescent? Jordan and Anthony maybe, but not Tolkien.
posted by jdroth at 1:48 PM on November 19, 2005
Dune's been mentioned a million times -- and I agree with the warning not to read much beyond book 4.
Just wanted to add that The Dune Encyclopedia (NOT written by Herbert, but with his support) is a terrific postscript to those four books, if you like to dig deep within a fictional universe. It's written as a reference work for a reader who also occupies that universe, and it's thick as a phone book. It's out of print and expensive, but I've always been able to find it at public libraries without much trouble.
(I'll also throw in my vote against Jordan, and for Pullman and King.)
posted by gnomeloaf at 1:59 PM on November 19, 2005
Just wanted to add that The Dune Encyclopedia (NOT written by Herbert, but with his support) is a terrific postscript to those four books, if you like to dig deep within a fictional universe. It's written as a reference work for a reader who also occupies that universe, and it's thick as a phone book. It's out of print and expensive, but I've always been able to find it at public libraries without much trouble.
(I'll also throw in my vote against Jordan, and for Pullman and King.)
posted by gnomeloaf at 1:59 PM on November 19, 2005
Have to put in my vote for Guy Gavriel Kay. If you're looking for epic stories, you can't do much better than his Fionavar Tapestry series. I read that first when I was about 15, and was totally amazed. When I read it again at 22, I was absolutely blown away. I'd also recommend any of his other books, especially Tigana, and the Sarantine Mosaic, but of all of them, Fionavar is the one that I would most describe as epic.
posted by number9dream at 2:09 PM on November 19, 2005
posted by number9dream at 2:09 PM on November 19, 2005
I would second Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea books, at least the original trilogy. It has the best philosophy on the nature of magic that I've ever read.
And I'd also fifth (or sixth) the Dune series - you can skip books 4 and 5, but book 6 is actually pretty cool!
posted by anthill at 2:18 PM on November 19, 2005
And I'd also fifth (or sixth) the Dune series - you can skip books 4 and 5, but book 6 is actually pretty cool!
posted by anthill at 2:18 PM on November 19, 2005
More Earthsea Reviews... that all these tribute pages are from university professors is telling.
posted by anthill at 2:22 PM on November 19, 2005
posted by anthill at 2:22 PM on November 19, 2005
I'll add another vote for anything and everything by Guy Gavriel Kay. I've read them all except Lions of Al-Rassan (which is sitting on my shelf awaiting me), and I have yet to find one I didn't love. Tigana is my favorite, though.
I'd also second Katharine Kerr's Deverry series (the first one is Daggerspell, which is really the best place to start). It has the complex characters you seem to be looking for, spread out over various incarnations of each of the characters throughout centuries. Also, the newest book is due to come out next July, so if you get started soon, there won't be a long wait for the next book. ;)
posted by gwyn at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2005
I'd also second Katharine Kerr's Deverry series (the first one is Daggerspell, which is really the best place to start). It has the complex characters you seem to be looking for, spread out over various incarnations of each of the characters throughout centuries. Also, the newest book is due to come out next July, so if you get started soon, there won't be a long wait for the next book. ;)
posted by gwyn at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2005
I'd just like to put in my two cents for the Book of the New Sun. It's absolutely excellent, and effectively revitalized my belief that sci-fi or fantasy isn't synonymous with stilted writing. It's probably best cast as sci-fi, but it's just as much fantasy and is almost the definition of epic.
Gene Wolfe's recent "Wizard Knight" series is also wonderful and is straight-up fantasy that will blow you away.
posted by abingham at 4:20 PM on November 19, 2005
Gene Wolfe's recent "Wizard Knight" series is also wonderful and is straight-up fantasy that will blow you away.
posted by abingham at 4:20 PM on November 19, 2005
Tad William's Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn trilogy is probably my favorite fantasy. That or Guy Gavriel Kay. I've loved everything of Kay's except for A Song for Arbonne (which I didn't finish!).
Martin's A Song of Fire and Ice is widely revered. I've given up on it for the moment. I'll read it when it's done but have lost patience with the slow output and the splitting of Feast for Crows.
posted by 6550 at 5:01 PM on November 19, 2005
Martin's A Song of Fire and Ice is widely revered. I've given up on it for the moment. I'll read it when it's done but have lost patience with the slow output and the splitting of Feast for Crows.
posted by 6550 at 5:01 PM on November 19, 2005
If you want to go back to the roots of Tolkein and fantasy you need to start reading the Viking sagas. Tolkien borrows from the Volsung Saga which contains similar elements as his trilogy.
But the best one is the semi-mythical Egil's saga which, at nearly 800 years old is the prototypical modern fantasy novel, and fits the definition of epic.
Also worth reading are the Jomsvikings' Saga and the Saga of Burnt Njal.
posted by euphorb at 5:36 PM on November 19, 2005
But the best one is the semi-mythical Egil's saga which, at nearly 800 years old is the prototypical modern fantasy novel, and fits the definition of epic.
Also worth reading are the Jomsvikings' Saga and the Saga of Burnt Njal.
posted by euphorb at 5:36 PM on November 19, 2005
I second Zadcat's mention of Susan Cooper's books. Especially The Dark Is Rising.
posted by A dead Quaker at 6:53 PM on November 19, 2005
posted by A dead Quaker at 6:53 PM on November 19, 2005
M. John Harrison's Viriconium novellas (just out). Reminds me of Wolfe in ways. this is the only new thing I have to add, but will endorse the following as well
Gene Wolfe's Wizard Knight books, as others have said, it makes you work, but is great stuff.
Gormenghast as well.
posted by edgeways at 6:54 PM on November 19, 2005
Gene Wolfe's Wizard Knight books, as others have said, it makes you work, but is great stuff.
Gormenghast as well.
posted by edgeways at 6:54 PM on November 19, 2005
I'm skipping straight to the comment section, and at 81 comments, I'm sure these are all mentioned, but here it goes:
posted by hatsix at 8:18 PM on November 19, 2005
- Robert Jordan - Wheel of Time 11 of 12 books written, with prequel trilogy planned (1 of 3 written there)
- Terry Goodkind - Sword of Truth
- Terry Brooks - Shannara and Landover Series - Huge set, very well thought of
- David Eddings - Belgariad and Malloreon - Most people prefer Belgariad series, its been a while since I've read it, but I think I do too.
- CS Lewis - The Chronicles of Narnia - Great series, definitely epic.
- Douglas Adams - Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Series and Dirk Gently Series - Two great series by DA, for when you need some humor Sci-fi to break up the epic fantasy
posted by hatsix at 8:18 PM on November 19, 2005
Response by poster: Dune's been mentioned a million times -- and I agree with the warning not to read much beyond book 4.
I've been reading this alot. I find it hard to want to pick up a series knowing you don't want to finish it. Does book 4 tie up most of the story lines?
The Wheel of Time is another series where people mention that its best to stop somewhere in the middle. Are there alot of questions unanswered in that story?
posted by mi6op at 4:55 PM on November 20, 2005
I've been reading this alot. I find it hard to want to pick up a series knowing you don't want to finish it. Does book 4 tie up most of the story lines?
The Wheel of Time is another series where people mention that its best to stop somewhere in the middle. Are there alot of questions unanswered in that story?
posted by mi6op at 4:55 PM on November 20, 2005
I've only read Dune and it's a fantastic book. I may get around to reading more some day but will definately reread Dune.
Wheel of Time is not finished yet. I read the first six and then stopped*. I may get the last one when it comes out but probably not. Reviews have suggested the the series has steadily declined since book six or so.
Piers Anthony's Xanth is adventure fantasy. But it's definately not epic. The books are mostly self contained. Major plot elements wrap up within a single book. Smaller elements connect to other books. Characters are in a one or two or a few books and then only appear in minor roles. You might try one and see if it's to your liking.
I've read a lot of fantasy and scifi. If you have any questions, feel free to email.
*I actually read about a third of seven. But it had been awhile since I'd read the others and I couldn't remember any of the minor characters and lost interest.
posted by 6550 at 10:53 PM on November 20, 2005
Wheel of Time is not finished yet. I read the first six and then stopped*. I may get the last one when it comes out but probably not. Reviews have suggested the the series has steadily declined since book six or so.
Piers Anthony's Xanth is adventure fantasy. But it's definately not epic. The books are mostly self contained. Major plot elements wrap up within a single book. Smaller elements connect to other books. Characters are in a one or two or a few books and then only appear in minor roles. You might try one and see if it's to your liking.
I've read a lot of fantasy and scifi. If you have any questions, feel free to email.
*I actually read about a third of seven. But it had been awhile since I'd read the others and I couldn't remember any of the minor characters and lost interest.
posted by 6550 at 10:53 PM on November 20, 2005
I second Zadcat's mention of Susan Cooper's books. Especially The Dark Is Rising.
Egad! I thought I was the only person still alive who remembered Susan Cooper's series!
I would have said her books were aimed at young readers, but in a world where Harry Potter gets recommended by adults, anything is possible.
posted by planetthoughtful at 4:44 PM on November 21, 2005
Egad! I thought I was the only person still alive who remembered Susan Cooper's series!
I would have said her books were aimed at young readers, but in a world where Harry Potter gets recommended by adults, anything is possible.
posted by planetthoughtful at 4:44 PM on November 21, 2005
Just a couple of notes on a few of the mentioned ones:
The Dark Tower series -- is really quite good for, oh, the first 5 books or so. But once King inserts himself into his own series, it kind of lost it for me. Great up until then, though.
Both Gormenghast and Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell are slooow. Good. But slow.
posted by graventy at 5:45 PM on February 1, 2006
The Dark Tower series -- is really quite good for, oh, the first 5 books or so. But once King inserts himself into his own series, it kind of lost it for me. Great up until then, though.
Both Gormenghast and Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell are slooow. Good. But slow.
posted by graventy at 5:45 PM on February 1, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by xmutex at 10:57 PM on November 18, 2005