not that you give a hoomt
June 18, 2010 3:51 PM Subscribe
How long until the word "whom" is officially considered obsolete?
It seems inevitable. Newscasters, script-writers, politicians, teachers, authors, and all of their grandmothers use "who" as a direct & indirect object.
(I've long since stopped responding to it by saying, "2+2=5. common usage says so!", which just loses friends.)
I understand that language must age, develop, and die.
[[[deleted scenes:
will "presently" see the #1 and #2 spots for its definitions switching places before long? how long until "begging the question" loses all of its essence and is always used when someone means "raising the question," which is still aptly considered incorrect.]]]
I'm really most interested in the "whom" question-- put another way,
"how long until the word "who" is written into grammar law as the replacement for "whom?"
bonus: any theories why virtually everyone, despite their knowledge, insists on forever saying it incorrectly?
further, does it in fact say something about a fastlane/digital-age dumbing-down, or can anyone say with authority that it is just another example of the natural evolution of a language?
'cause I'm starting to suspect that it is naive to feel as self-righteous about this as I do. :)
It seems inevitable. Newscasters, script-writers, politicians, teachers, authors, and all of their grandmothers use "who" as a direct & indirect object.
(I've long since stopped responding to it by saying, "2+2=5. common usage says so!", which just loses friends.)
I understand that language must age, develop, and die.
[[[deleted scenes:
will "presently" see the #1 and #2 spots for its definitions switching places before long? how long until "begging the question" loses all of its essence and is always used when someone means "raising the question," which is still aptly considered incorrect.]]]
I'm really most interested in the "whom" question-- put another way,
"how long until the word "who" is written into grammar law as the replacement for "whom?"
bonus: any theories why virtually everyone, despite their knowledge, insists on forever saying it incorrectly?
further, does it in fact say something about a fastlane/digital-age dumbing-down, or can anyone say with authority that it is just another example of the natural evolution of a language?
'cause I'm starting to suspect that it is naive to feel as self-righteous about this as I do. :)
This post was deleted for the following reason: There's not really any answer to "how long until usage x changes"; I'm not sure if there's a question you want to ask that's actually answerable or if this is more just a let's-chat-about-usage sort of thing, but maybe try this again next week if there's something more concrete you're after? -- cortex
"How long until the word "whom" is officially considered obsolete?"
5 years, 287 days, 14 hours, 19 minutes and 42 seconds as of right.......now.
posted by ian1977 at 3:53 PM on June 18, 2010
5 years, 287 days, 14 hours, 19 minutes and 42 seconds as of right.......now.
posted by ian1977 at 3:53 PM on June 18, 2010
I dunno, but for what it's worth I feel pretty sanctimonious about it too. Then again, I'm a writer by trade, and old.
posted by fivesavagepalms at 3:53 PM on June 18, 2010
posted by fivesavagepalms at 3:53 PM on June 18, 2010
How long until the word "whom" is officially considered obsolete?
Considered by whom?
posted by Nothing... and like it at 3:55 PM on June 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
Considered by whom?
posted by Nothing... and like it at 3:55 PM on June 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
I despair. I'm all for language evolving, like you say, but it seems that so much of its evolution at the moment is based on ignorance rather than function or aesthetic. I suspect little has changed in that regard though.
posted by opsin at 4:00 PM on June 18, 2010
posted by opsin at 4:00 PM on June 18, 2010
any theories why virtually everyone, despite their knowledge, insists on forever saying it incorrectly?
Because no one teaches us to use it correctly. I'm not profoundly lazy, I just have no clue when or why I should use this word. There was no digital-age/fastlane/whatever back when I was in school so it predates that for sure (blaming the internet or 'kids these days' just shows your prejudice).
And for many of us there are no consequences to this. I've never had to decide which one to use in any of my writing, probably because scientific writing avoids words like that anyway, so why would I learn? I presume English majors are still taught this kind of thing but my writing classes were more about how to rearrange sentences to avoid ambiguity or how to make things in passive past tense not sound awful.
And yeah, there's no international body that gets to decide 'grammar law' in the same was as SI units for example. But lots of big organisations or publications use style books and stuff so I guess you could look at how many of them are dropping whom and see if there's a trend. I would assume there actually isn't but, again, I don't do this kind of writing.
posted by shelleycat at 4:02 PM on June 18, 2010
Because no one teaches us to use it correctly. I'm not profoundly lazy, I just have no clue when or why I should use this word. There was no digital-age/fastlane/whatever back when I was in school so it predates that for sure (blaming the internet or 'kids these days' just shows your prejudice).
And for many of us there are no consequences to this. I've never had to decide which one to use in any of my writing, probably because scientific writing avoids words like that anyway, so why would I learn? I presume English majors are still taught this kind of thing but my writing classes were more about how to rearrange sentences to avoid ambiguity or how to make things in passive past tense not sound awful.
And yeah, there's no international body that gets to decide 'grammar law' in the same was as SI units for example. But lots of big organisations or publications use style books and stuff so I guess you could look at how many of them are dropping whom and see if there's a trend. I would assume there actually isn't but, again, I don't do this kind of writing.
posted by shelleycat at 4:02 PM on June 18, 2010
At least we all can agree to toe the line on capitalizing the first word in a sentence, and that that sacred rule must not fall into obsolesce---oh, wait, never mind.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 4:06 PM on June 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Admiral Haddock at 4:06 PM on June 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:52 PM on June 18, 2010