What can I do about an older father's change in behavior?
May 1, 2007 9:16 PM Subscribe
A 60-something father has begun lying to me, in manipulative ways. My mom blows it off as not a big deal, as do my siblings. Is there anything I can do? Is everyone in denial?
Long story short: dad suffers a stroke with some paralysis on the left side of the body a few years ago. Some searching reveals I should expect a changes in empathy, sense of humor, and language skills. I've seen changes in all three.
I interact with parents about once every 6 months when I visit, and in the last year I've noticed things take a turn for the worse. I get calls from dad saying mom is crying because we're leaving soon and we must come over for a last minute visit, but follow-up discussions with mom reveal that dad made it up to get us to come over. This happens several times before I confront my father, where I hang up on him when he tries it a third time during the last trip, and I haven't spoken with him since. I tell mom the whole story, she says she wasn't crying and he's lying again. I say I have no tolerance for manipulation by guilt and lying.
Fast forward two months to today, when my dad calls, apologizes for being a jerk the last time we spoke, and promptly asks for $500 to cover a medical bill. He's never asked me for money in my entire life, and my parents don't have money troubles at the moment. I call mom, who is out running errands and she says there are no outstanding bills (she handles all the finances post-stroke) and to not send the money.
I'm concerned that my last 3 or 4 interactions with my father have centered around his lies in order to get something out of me. Ever since his stroke, I've told my wife that talking to him feels like talking to a 12 year old as he seems to have little understanding for others and acts in childish, selfish ways, but the last few events really concern me.
Could it be that his mental health is slipping? If everyone that is around him 24/7 denies any major new problems, are they not seeing it? Is there anything I can do to get him helped beyond weird whole family intervention? Is there a term for this kind of odd mental decline in older and/or stroke affected adults so I can search for more info on it?
Long story short: dad suffers a stroke with some paralysis on the left side of the body a few years ago. Some searching reveals I should expect a changes in empathy, sense of humor, and language skills. I've seen changes in all three.
I interact with parents about once every 6 months when I visit, and in the last year I've noticed things take a turn for the worse. I get calls from dad saying mom is crying because we're leaving soon and we must come over for a last minute visit, but follow-up discussions with mom reveal that dad made it up to get us to come over. This happens several times before I confront my father, where I hang up on him when he tries it a third time during the last trip, and I haven't spoken with him since. I tell mom the whole story, she says she wasn't crying and he's lying again. I say I have no tolerance for manipulation by guilt and lying.
Fast forward two months to today, when my dad calls, apologizes for being a jerk the last time we spoke, and promptly asks for $500 to cover a medical bill. He's never asked me for money in my entire life, and my parents don't have money troubles at the moment. I call mom, who is out running errands and she says there are no outstanding bills (she handles all the finances post-stroke) and to not send the money.
I'm concerned that my last 3 or 4 interactions with my father have centered around his lies in order to get something out of me. Ever since his stroke, I've told my wife that talking to him feels like talking to a 12 year old as he seems to have little understanding for others and acts in childish, selfish ways, but the last few events really concern me.
Could it be that his mental health is slipping? If everyone that is around him 24/7 denies any major new problems, are they not seeing it? Is there anything I can do to get him helped beyond weird whole family intervention? Is there a term for this kind of odd mental decline in older and/or stroke affected adults so I can search for more info on it?
Be easy on your dad. I took care of my mom after 2 strokes and there were times where she would totally lose it and cling to me. I felt totally trapped. It was awful. But honestly, she remembers none of it now. When people have had strokes it affects their brain. In ways, they become children. They are not themselves. Try to remember that. Do not judge him as if he was a person in full health, instead try to find as much compassion as you can muster while not giving up on your boundaries.
If you have more questions or just need someone to talk to regarding how to deal with a parent who's had a stroke, my e-mail's in my profile. My mom had hers in 1998 and I've had a long road of ups & downs with it... so I have a lot of empathy for what you're going through. Everyone recouperates on their own schedule. Does he have any aphasia at all?
posted by miss lynnster at 9:36 PM on May 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
If you have more questions or just need someone to talk to regarding how to deal with a parent who's had a stroke, my e-mail's in my profile. My mom had hers in 1998 and I've had a long road of ups & downs with it... so I have a lot of empathy for what you're going through. Everyone recouperates on their own schedule. Does he have any aphasia at all?
posted by miss lynnster at 9:36 PM on May 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
Moral of the story... he's not being manipulative just for the sake of abusing anyone at all. He's just not himself right now, and he may not have as much control over that as you think.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:39 PM on May 1, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 9:39 PM on May 1, 2007
From my experience with family members who've had strokes, it is most likely a mental health issue, which may or may not be temporary.
posted by acoutu at 9:44 PM on May 1, 2007
posted by acoutu at 9:44 PM on May 1, 2007
Talk your siblings. Do they notice the problem but think it is no big deal or is your father not lying to them?
Does he have a regular doctor? If so, you can call the doctor and tell him about your concerns. He won't be able to tell you anything but he should be willing llsten. Then try to talk your mother into getting him in for a check-up if he isn't already going in regularly. If his mental health is slipping, the doctor might be able to assess if it is organic or due to medication.
I am no expert (just Psych 101) but I'm guessing there is nothing you can do directly to change this. The hard part for you will be to come to terms with a father who acts like a selfish 12 year old. You say you have no tolerance for manipulation and guilt. Recognize that your father wants you, wants your love and attention. Due to an illness, he is asking for it inappropriately. You don't have to give into his manipulation but it helps if you respond from a perspective of sympathy rather than anger.
posted by metahawk at 9:46 PM on May 1, 2007
Does he have a regular doctor? If so, you can call the doctor and tell him about your concerns. He won't be able to tell you anything but he should be willing llsten. Then try to talk your mother into getting him in for a check-up if he isn't already going in regularly. If his mental health is slipping, the doctor might be able to assess if it is organic or due to medication.
I am no expert (just Psych 101) but I'm guessing there is nothing you can do directly to change this. The hard part for you will be to come to terms with a father who acts like a selfish 12 year old. You say you have no tolerance for manipulation and guilt. Recognize that your father wants you, wants your love and attention. Due to an illness, he is asking for it inappropriately. You don't have to give into his manipulation but it helps if you respond from a perspective of sympathy rather than anger.
posted by metahawk at 9:46 PM on May 1, 2007
I agree with Ynoxas. It sounds like it could be vascular dementia secondary to his strokes. I'd strongly suggest getting him a neuropsychological evaluation.
posted by jasper411 at 9:57 PM on May 1, 2007
posted by jasper411 at 9:57 PM on May 1, 2007
Also agreeing with the suspicion of dementia, especially Pick's Disease at his age and with those sorts of behaviors. It is a rare kind of dementia, and the behavior could also just be other sorts of deterioration from the stroke, but in the end it sounds personality change from a medical problem and you should treat it as such until a doctor rules it out.
My undergrad research project deals with dementia and of the many interviews I've read for it, stroke is often a tipping point of sorts. Arm yourself with a list of unusual behaviors for when he goes in for an evaluation, otherwise the chance of misdiagnosis, of whatever it may be, is high.
posted by slow graffiti at 10:12 PM on May 1, 2007
My undergrad research project deals with dementia and of the many interviews I've read for it, stroke is often a tipping point of sorts. Arm yourself with a list of unusual behaviors for when he goes in for an evaluation, otherwise the chance of misdiagnosis, of whatever it may be, is high.
posted by slow graffiti at 10:12 PM on May 1, 2007
What miss lynnster said. I have been taking care of my dad after his stroke last year and some of the changes in him were shocking. Like crying jags (he had been one of the most stoic, and good natured people I have known) He has recovered nicely, but it takes time, and there are still some things I can tell that aren't back to 100%. And may never be.
posted by vronsky at 5:15 AM on May 2, 2007
posted by vronsky at 5:15 AM on May 2, 2007
You definitely need to find a way to stop taking it personally, and maybe not take it out on your mom, because she can't make him act some other way. This is not unusual for brain injuries - sometimes even moderate concussions will result in similar personality changes. Other people around him are probably a lot more used to it and have come to terms with it in their own ways; it may simply be too overwhelming to keep a running list of all the "bad" things he's done.
If he hasn't had a neuro consult lately, he should, but it's entirely possible that he has and the verdict is basically that this is how it is. Strokes can be really evil in their insidiousness.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:34 AM on May 2, 2007
If he hasn't had a neuro consult lately, he should, but it's entirely possible that he has and the verdict is basically that this is how it is. Strokes can be really evil in their insidiousness.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:34 AM on May 2, 2007
Nthing the need for a medical evaluation. It should go without saying (but often needs to be said) that there must be complete honesty with the doctors. Tell them about the lying and manipulative behavior, for example, and let them evaluate it. It is easy for those closest to the person in question to "not see" what is happening; it sort of "sneaks up on you" bit by bit. In other words, tell the doctors the facts about the behaviors and symptoms, and let them do the diagnosis.
FWIW, my father has Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. We did not recognize it at first, and he was not evaluated specifically for dementia until after he started getting his medications confused, having car wrecks, and getting into other dangerous situations. He may have also had a stroke during this period, perhaps in one of the wrecks. At the time I lived 1600 miles away, and was not able to provide much support for my mother. He is now in a secure nursing facility, but I wish I had taken action before he became a danger to himself or others.
posted by Robert Angelo at 5:49 AM on May 2, 2007
FWIW, my father has Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. We did not recognize it at first, and he was not evaluated specifically for dementia until after he started getting his medications confused, having car wrecks, and getting into other dangerous situations. He may have also had a stroke during this period, perhaps in one of the wrecks. At the time I lived 1600 miles away, and was not able to provide much support for my mother. He is now in a secure nursing facility, but I wish I had taken action before he became a danger to himself or others.
posted by Robert Angelo at 5:49 AM on May 2, 2007
yeah, it sounds like the stroke damaged some of his personality. talk to his doctor--he or she can probably explain where the stroke was and what parts of the brain were affected, and to explain the damage to you better. understanding will help you accept.
your mom's in denial. she should see a therapist. also, people who are around someone 24/7 often don't notice a slow decline that those who visit only periodically do.
also, consider seeing a therapist yourself. they can help you learn how to deal with your new relationship with your father.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:55 AM on May 2, 2007
your mom's in denial. she should see a therapist. also, people who are around someone 24/7 often don't notice a slow decline that those who visit only periodically do.
also, consider seeing a therapist yourself. they can help you learn how to deal with your new relationship with your father.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:55 AM on May 2, 2007
Jesus the guy had a STROKE! You're hanging up on him for quote unquote lying?? At least you are concerned, which is a good sign. Perhaps maybe flex those empathy/compassion muscles and give him some slack while you come up with a plan of action along with your mother and the rest of your family.
posted by spicynuts at 7:30 AM on May 2, 2007
posted by spicynuts at 7:30 AM on May 2, 2007
I'm with spicynuts and thinkingwoman on this. He had a stroke. This means parts of his brain have been damaged. you said "talking to him feels like talking to a 12 year old", and "he seems to have little understanding for others and acts in childish, selfish ways". Have you considered the fact that the stroke could have damaged the part of his brain that regulates this part of his personality? I'm thinking he likely is doing things like this to work around the damage and communicate something he is no longer able in the same capacity as he used to.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:08 AM on May 2, 2007
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:08 AM on May 2, 2007
It's not clear to me that the things your father is saying to you are premeditated, manipulative lies designed to get you to act a certain way. That's the first thing I'd suspect if your father had a healthy brain. But he doesn't; he's had a stroke and he may also have some underlying dementia that the stroke has "uncovered."
It seems more likely to me that the things your dad is saying are manifestations of his brain illness. My own father died of cancer that spread to his brain; he said all kinds of nutty things during the last few months of his life, some of them would have been quite hurtful from a person in his right mind - so I know how disturbing it can be. I am a trained neurologist and I knew exactly what was happening and it was still very disturbing.
Eventually you will come to realize when it is your father talking and when it is the illness talking. Your mother and siblings can help you understand when to "blow off" what he says and when to take his words seriously.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:54 AM on May 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
It seems more likely to me that the things your dad is saying are manifestations of his brain illness. My own father died of cancer that spread to his brain; he said all kinds of nutty things during the last few months of his life, some of them would have been quite hurtful from a person in his right mind - so I know how disturbing it can be. I am a trained neurologist and I knew exactly what was happening and it was still very disturbing.
Eventually you will come to realize when it is your father talking and when it is the illness talking. Your mother and siblings can help you understand when to "blow off" what he says and when to take his words seriously.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:54 AM on May 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
Please go through the motions of being tolerant and kinder until you know more -- honestly, it will make you feel better if (I suspect when) you learn he's suffered neurological damage. Think how frightened he must be in moments of clarity. Your mom, too. Maybe they are just still in the denial phase, you know?
posted by thinkpiece at 10:50 AM on May 2, 2007
posted by thinkpiece at 10:50 AM on May 2, 2007
Nthing the suggestion of dementia of some sort. I have nothing to back it up but a personal anecdote, but when my grandmother was suffering from it she would call my mom and tell her that a nice family had moved in with her and was taking care of her. Of course no one had moved into her house, but she really truly believed it at the time of the call. Its possible that your father really believes that your mom is crying because you're leaving at the time he's speaking to you.
posted by wuzandfuzz at 12:14 PM on May 2, 2007
posted by wuzandfuzz at 12:14 PM on May 2, 2007
Just wanted to add that I also had experiences of a relative "lying" after having a stroke. In my case it's my grandmother and she's significantly older - she recently turned 90. Her stroke was about 5 yrs. ago. Sometimes I like to think about what recent events in her life or old memories triggered might have prompted her to tell us that someone who died a decade ago called her and had a 45 min. conversation with her that day. Other times it can be a little disturbing, like when she calls and is upset because her caregiver is supposedly doing stuff like using her toothbrush or trying to get her to chew gum that's been in her mouth - I highly doubt those things happened, and if it seems to calm her, then I don't feel too bad about "playing along" (saying that I'll talk to her caregiver and tell her not to do those things, etc.).
posted by PY at 5:02 AM on May 3, 2007
posted by PY at 5:02 AM on May 3, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Have his doctors evaluate or re-evaluate him immediately.
posted by Ynoxas at 9:26 PM on May 1, 2007 [1 favorite]