My name or his?
January 9, 2007 1:44 PM Subscribe
My husband was issued a few traffic tickets for expired insurance and registration. He wold like them dismissed. With a $300 price difference and not much cash, should the insurance be in my name or his?
We recently brought an old vehicle into Texas for my husband to use for work. The vehicle has expired tags, registration, and insurance, and he has a suspended license in another state (unpaid traffic ticket). Last week he was written a few tickets for all three expirations. Yes yes, we knew it was coming.
Now we are working on getting the insurance taken care of first. We have a very tight budget so I thought the insurance should be in my name, as it is $300 less than what we would have to pay if it were in his name. The problem with this is the officer did not issue my husband a ticket for his suspended license, and he thinks that may bring up some problems when he goes in to take care of the tickets.
Basically I need to know if he has a chance of having the tickets dismissed if he is not on the insurance (the vehicle will have up to date insurance, tags and registration, and he will have an unsuspended license).
We recently brought an old vehicle into Texas for my husband to use for work. The vehicle has expired tags, registration, and insurance, and he has a suspended license in another state (unpaid traffic ticket). Last week he was written a few tickets for all three expirations. Yes yes, we knew it was coming.
Now we are working on getting the insurance taken care of first. We have a very tight budget so I thought the insurance should be in my name, as it is $300 less than what we would have to pay if it were in his name. The problem with this is the officer did not issue my husband a ticket for his suspended license, and he thinks that may bring up some problems when he goes in to take care of the tickets.
Basically I need to know if he has a chance of having the tickets dismissed if he is not on the insurance (the vehicle will have up to date insurance, tags and registration, and he will have an unsuspended license).
IANAIA. If the two of you are married, in every state I have lived in, your spouse will need to be listed on your insurance. The only way someone else is insured on your car without being listed on your insruance is if they are a non-family, non-household member.
So, my understanding only based on personal experience is if your husband got dinged for not having insurance, *he* will need to show proof of insurance because you two are married and he was driving your, the family's, car. If he did not live with you and was not your husband and was driving your car, he would likely be covered under your insurance. This is a question your new insurance company should be able to answer with much more authority and with an undertstanding of the laws in your state.
posted by jessamyn at 2:21 PM on January 9, 2007
So, my understanding only based on personal experience is if your husband got dinged for not having insurance, *he* will need to show proof of insurance because you two are married and he was driving your, the family's, car. If he did not live with you and was not your husband and was driving your car, he would likely be covered under your insurance. This is a question your new insurance company should be able to answer with much more authority and with an undertstanding of the laws in your state.
posted by jessamyn at 2:21 PM on January 9, 2007
Big_B, I think what she means is that the license tags and inspection stickers were out. In Texas, the inspection sticker ensures that we all have road-worthy cars that are not polluting. The tags (sticker that used to go on the license plate, but now goes on the window) is how we pay taxes to maintain and build our roads and bridges.
Sufi, at least in Houston he can go to the courthouse (listed on the ticket - go there, don't call). He needs to tell them that he will get the car inspected and the tags up-to-date. If he does this - immediately - they have the option of giving him the time between right now and his court date to provide them with proof that this has been done (receipts); I don't think they dismiss tickets for no insurance, unless you can provide an insurance card that shows you were insured at the time of the ticket but did not have a current card in your car at the time you were pulled over. The rest they can dismiss, because you can make good on it retroactively. The key words here are "immediately" and "option" - by acting immediately, he has the more options. If they agree, he needs to pay only the court costs and some administrative fee I think. It'll be less than paying those plus the fines plus getting the car up-to-date. If he was stopped for a traffic violation (like, speeding) then he can also sign up for defensive driving while he's there - again, you just pay the court costs and then mail in the proof that you took the course within the mandatory time frame.
Then either one of you go to the insurance office. If the car has been driven without any insurance, then they may want to put you in the high-risk pool. My advice is, try to not make this happen, as the insurance rates are incredibly high and it takes time to get out of the pool.
With the insurance card in hand (because you need proof of insurance), you go get the car tags. They will have you sign a form. Before signing, they will explain the form to you: "We will charge you for the time that the car was lapsed if you have driven the car. Check here if you have driven the car; check here if you have not; sign at the bottom." They check these against tickets, so admit that someone in your household has driven the car and pay the money. They will check your drivers license if you pay by check, but that's ok because you have a license. You'll get the new plates and sticker for your windshield immediately. Put both on the car.
Now, you or your husband go get the car inspected. They need to see your insurance and also your tags need to be current (so that's why you do it almost-last). They don't check anything else except the car. If your car fails the inspection, I believe you have 14 days to get the problems fixed. The shop that inspected your car does not have to be the same shop that fixes the problems. They will not charge you for the inspection when you return with the problems fixed - you are only charged once.
Your husband should then return to the courthouse with proof of all of this. Unless there's a warrant for his arrest somewhere, everything will be ok to dismiss the ticket.
And then lastly, get his license unsuspended from your previous state. Then get him a Texas drivers license.
posted by Houstonian at 6:04 PM on January 9, 2007
Sufi, at least in Houston he can go to the courthouse (listed on the ticket - go there, don't call). He needs to tell them that he will get the car inspected and the tags up-to-date. If he does this - immediately - they have the option of giving him the time between right now and his court date to provide them with proof that this has been done (receipts); I don't think they dismiss tickets for no insurance, unless you can provide an insurance card that shows you were insured at the time of the ticket but did not have a current card in your car at the time you were pulled over. The rest they can dismiss, because you can make good on it retroactively. The key words here are "immediately" and "option" - by acting immediately, he has the more options. If they agree, he needs to pay only the court costs and some administrative fee I think. It'll be less than paying those plus the fines plus getting the car up-to-date. If he was stopped for a traffic violation (like, speeding) then he can also sign up for defensive driving while he's there - again, you just pay the court costs and then mail in the proof that you took the course within the mandatory time frame.
Then either one of you go to the insurance office. If the car has been driven without any insurance, then they may want to put you in the high-risk pool. My advice is, try to not make this happen, as the insurance rates are incredibly high and it takes time to get out of the pool.
With the insurance card in hand (because you need proof of insurance), you go get the car tags. They will have you sign a form. Before signing, they will explain the form to you: "We will charge you for the time that the car was lapsed if you have driven the car. Check here if you have driven the car; check here if you have not; sign at the bottom." They check these against tickets, so admit that someone in your household has driven the car and pay the money. They will check your drivers license if you pay by check, but that's ok because you have a license. You'll get the new plates and sticker for your windshield immediately. Put both on the car.
Now, you or your husband go get the car inspected. They need to see your insurance and also your tags need to be current (so that's why you do it almost-last). They don't check anything else except the car. If your car fails the inspection, I believe you have 14 days to get the problems fixed. The shop that inspected your car does not have to be the same shop that fixes the problems. They will not charge you for the inspection when you return with the problems fixed - you are only charged once.
Your husband should then return to the courthouse with proof of all of this. Unless there's a warrant for his arrest somewhere, everything will be ok to dismiss the ticket.
And then lastly, get his license unsuspended from your previous state. Then get him a Texas drivers license.
posted by Houstonian at 6:04 PM on January 9, 2007
IANYIA, but in every state I've done insurance in (granted, Texas isn't one of them) if you are married, you -must- list your spouse. It doesn't matter whose name comes first on the policy, it's equal weight. If you've been quoted a difference either you haven't told the company everything (that is not an accusation, btw) or the company may be shady. Some companies do have exclusionary policies where a spouse doesn't have to be listed, but they may not drive the car in that case and would not be covered if something happened. He needs to have his license unsuspended from the other state before you make any insurance moves - they can and probably will deny coverage (and possibly current coverage if you have it with the same company) for having a suspended license. Do not tell the insurance company about the suspension - let them find out for themselves.
As far as the court, your husband needs to find out if he has to carry something called an SR-22 for being cited for not having insurance. You want to do everything you can to avoid him having to carry that - it follows him for two years and generally high rates come with it.
Good luck.
posted by sephira at 7:04 PM on January 9, 2007
As far as the court, your husband needs to find out if he has to carry something called an SR-22 for being cited for not having insurance. You want to do everything you can to avoid him having to carry that - it follows him for two years and generally high rates come with it.
Good luck.
posted by sephira at 7:04 PM on January 9, 2007
jessamyn and sephira have it. Your spouse must be listed on your insurance policy, regardless of who is the first named insured (this does apply in Texas). The insurance company will find out about the suspension when/if they run your husband's motor vehicle report for the state where his license was suspended.
The fact that the officer didn't ticket your husband for his suspended license probably won't cause any problems when you go to take care of his tickets. If there's a way that you can take care of the suspension first, you might want to do that. Then handle the tickets and get the insurance. It will be better if he has a valid license (in any state) before you apply for your insurance policy - a previously suspended license is far better than a current suspension.
posted by mewithoutyou at 7:26 PM on January 9, 2007
The fact that the officer didn't ticket your husband for his suspended license probably won't cause any problems when you go to take care of his tickets. If there's a way that you can take care of the suspension first, you might want to do that. Then handle the tickets and get the insurance. It will be better if he has a valid license (in any state) before you apply for your insurance policy - a previously suspended license is far better than a current suspension.
posted by mewithoutyou at 7:26 PM on January 9, 2007
Do not tell the insurance company about the suspension - let them find out for themselves.
They will. They check your DMV report.
This exact same scenario has happened to me, with some pretty ugly results. You can get the tickets for the tags dismissed if you get them within ten days of the tickets, but not the no insurance (unless you can get them to backdate for you, highly unlikely). He will also end up having to pay DPS on top of the fines the municipal, state or county court assesses. This is no fun (I ended up with a warrant too). If I had to do it all over again, I would beg borrow or steal an attorney to work their magic on this crap. A lot of this will depend on exactly which area your husband was stopped in and by who. In San Antonio, they also tow the car when you have no insurance, btw. He will definitely need an sr-22 (proof of financial responsibility, if you cancel the insurance DPS is automatically notified) for the next two years.
posted by IronLizard at 7:47 PM on January 9, 2007
They will. They check your DMV report.
This exact same scenario has happened to me, with some pretty ugly results. You can get the tickets for the tags dismissed if you get them within ten days of the tickets, but not the no insurance (unless you can get them to backdate for you, highly unlikely). He will also end up having to pay DPS on top of the fines the municipal, state or county court assesses. This is no fun (I ended up with a warrant too). If I had to do it all over again, I would beg borrow or steal an attorney to work their magic on this crap. A lot of this will depend on exactly which area your husband was stopped in and by who. In San Antonio, they also tow the car when you have no insurance, btw. He will definitely need an sr-22 (proof of financial responsibility, if you cancel the insurance DPS is automatically notified) for the next two years.
posted by IronLizard at 7:47 PM on January 9, 2007
One bright spot: The DPS fines (and usually the others with probation) can be paid in installments.
posted by IronLizard at 7:59 PM on January 9, 2007
posted by IronLizard at 7:59 PM on January 9, 2007
I was an insurance agent. (not currently) On preview, this is very long, sorry.
It is possible to -not- have a spouse RATED on a policy, as in, not covered. It depends on the state. (I wrote auto insurance for 27 states through Progressive.)
Personally, I've been issued no-insurance tickets in two states, and in one case (Oregon), as long as you showed that you obtained insurance coverage prior to your ticket hearing, charges and fines were completely dropped. This may or may not be open to you in Texas. As far as being 'covered' by insurance, it does not matter who's name appears first on the paperwork (primary driver), so long as he is not specificly excluded.
I'm not entirely clear on where the $300 savings you mentioned comes about, if that relates to who is the primary driver. If the savings is solely because you are primary, go for it. If it's because he's not on the policy, do not do this.
Do not tell your insurer about tickets. They will run a check when you sign up. This takes them about 30 seconds and are frequently incorrect (missing items). If the charges for a ticket have not been finalized (as in you paid or went to jail, etc.), these won't appear on your record, as far as the insurer can see. In most cases they will not run your record again for a year, when they do a rate review, or unless you ask them to.
However, the general guideline insurers go by is this: If I ask you what tickets you received in the last 3 years and you tell me 2 speeding tickets, I pull your record and only see one, guess how many the insurance company records? Both, because they know of the falliable nature of the records and the fact that not all states share driving records, we'll take the insured's word that they did indeed recieve more. (FWIW it is possible to somewhat erase driving records by changing the state you hold a drivers license, depending on where you're moving from and to. Always shop around after a state-to-state move and don't bother mentioning your record. It's their responsibility to accurately gauge your driving record.)
Insurance companies don't penalize you for not disclosing information, generally speaking. When asked, just say you aren't sure.
DO NOT ask for an SR-22. The state will tell you if you need one, and you can deal with your insurance comapny at that time. Simply getting a ticket for lack of insurance does not automatically mean you must get one. And your rates will skyrocket if you do require it (think drunk-driving charge).
Feel free to ask what level of 'preference' you are classified. Some insurers are a bit wary of disclosing this, but its not always a problem. If you are placed lower than Ultra-preferred or Preferred, there are things you can do to raise yourself quickly.
This applies to everyone, for pretty much every insurer:
- Get coverage for liability above your state minimums. In the South, the liability minimums are almost criminally low, and are determined by each states' legislature. Some are as low as $5k per person in liability coverage, per accident. Many people choose state minimums to save on monthly premiums. This is a very, very bad idea. Besdies low coverage of your assets (own more than $5k of stuff? you won't after your first real accident), you'll never raise up in preference status and get to the super cheap rates.
The best thing to lower rates, in the long term, is this: carry any amount of liability above the state minimum for 6 months, the best being twice (or more) than the min. (Oregon minimum is 25k/50k/10k, carrying 50k/100k would be sufficient). Your coverage of damage to your vehicle, "comprehensive and collision" / "full coverage", deductibles, or lack thereof, do not matter. Insurers only care about your liability coverages when determining new rates. The cost to you to raise from minimum to twice the minimum should be very little. Once you have carried this higher coverage for six months, ask for a rate review, or start shopping again if they will not review. Your rates will drasticly lower (and you'll be better protected).
- Aside from that, in my experience, the factors that had the greatest influence on rates were (in order): rating of where the car is garaged (theft/accidents), credit rating, age, driving history, equal number of drivers to cars (this can be a huge factor, and I never fully understod why), married/single, and home ownership.
Feel free to ask your insurer what your rates would be like in different circumstances.
In your case, I would get his license cleared up, get both of you insured, have the car registered/titled/inspected in your name, then take care of the most recent tickets. If your husband is specificly excluded from your auto policy(not possible in many states) I would find it highly unlikely that he would get the chagres dismissed.
Reason for this order: cheaper insuance rate for not presently being suspended, and they likely can't/won't see if the car is not registered; registering the car in either of your names will likely require proof of insurance, and when you settle the recent tickets, you can show that your fully squared away.
As far as IronLizards suggestion of possibly backdating insurance, that is highly illeagal and if an agent offers to do this, walk away.
Be happy this didn't happen in Oregon, you can permanently lose your vehicle (not your license, the actual car) for no-insurance tickets, it's not fun.
Hope that helps.
posted by efalk at 11:44 PM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
It is possible to -not- have a spouse RATED on a policy, as in, not covered. It depends on the state. (I wrote auto insurance for 27 states through Progressive.)
Personally, I've been issued no-insurance tickets in two states, and in one case (Oregon), as long as you showed that you obtained insurance coverage prior to your ticket hearing, charges and fines were completely dropped. This may or may not be open to you in Texas. As far as being 'covered' by insurance, it does not matter who's name appears first on the paperwork (primary driver), so long as he is not specificly excluded.
I'm not entirely clear on where the $300 savings you mentioned comes about, if that relates to who is the primary driver. If the savings is solely because you are primary, go for it. If it's because he's not on the policy, do not do this.
Do not tell your insurer about tickets. They will run a check when you sign up. This takes them about 30 seconds and are frequently incorrect (missing items). If the charges for a ticket have not been finalized (as in you paid or went to jail, etc.), these won't appear on your record, as far as the insurer can see. In most cases they will not run your record again for a year, when they do a rate review, or unless you ask them to.
However, the general guideline insurers go by is this: If I ask you what tickets you received in the last 3 years and you tell me 2 speeding tickets, I pull your record and only see one, guess how many the insurance company records? Both, because they know of the falliable nature of the records and the fact that not all states share driving records, we'll take the insured's word that they did indeed recieve more. (FWIW it is possible to somewhat erase driving records by changing the state you hold a drivers license, depending on where you're moving from and to. Always shop around after a state-to-state move and don't bother mentioning your record. It's their responsibility to accurately gauge your driving record.)
Insurance companies don't penalize you for not disclosing information, generally speaking. When asked, just say you aren't sure.
DO NOT ask for an SR-22. The state will tell you if you need one, and you can deal with your insurance comapny at that time. Simply getting a ticket for lack of insurance does not automatically mean you must get one. And your rates will skyrocket if you do require it (think drunk-driving charge).
Feel free to ask what level of 'preference' you are classified. Some insurers are a bit wary of disclosing this, but its not always a problem. If you are placed lower than Ultra-preferred or Preferred, there are things you can do to raise yourself quickly.
This applies to everyone, for pretty much every insurer:
- Get coverage for liability above your state minimums. In the South, the liability minimums are almost criminally low, and are determined by each states' legislature. Some are as low as $5k per person in liability coverage, per accident. Many people choose state minimums to save on monthly premiums. This is a very, very bad idea. Besdies low coverage of your assets (own more than $5k of stuff? you won't after your first real accident), you'll never raise up in preference status and get to the super cheap rates.
The best thing to lower rates, in the long term, is this: carry any amount of liability above the state minimum for 6 months, the best being twice (or more) than the min. (Oregon minimum is 25k/50k/10k, carrying 50k/100k would be sufficient). Your coverage of damage to your vehicle, "comprehensive and collision" / "full coverage", deductibles, or lack thereof, do not matter. Insurers only care about your liability coverages when determining new rates. The cost to you to raise from minimum to twice the minimum should be very little. Once you have carried this higher coverage for six months, ask for a rate review, or start shopping again if they will not review. Your rates will drasticly lower (and you'll be better protected).
- Aside from that, in my experience, the factors that had the greatest influence on rates were (in order): rating of where the car is garaged (theft/accidents), credit rating, age, driving history, equal number of drivers to cars (this can be a huge factor, and I never fully understod why), married/single, and home ownership.
Feel free to ask your insurer what your rates would be like in different circumstances.
In your case, I would get his license cleared up, get both of you insured, have the car registered/titled/inspected in your name, then take care of the most recent tickets. If your husband is specificly excluded from your auto policy(not possible in many states) I would find it highly unlikely that he would get the chagres dismissed.
Reason for this order: cheaper insuance rate for not presently being suspended, and they likely can't/won't see if the car is not registered; registering the car in either of your names will likely require proof of insurance, and when you settle the recent tickets, you can show that your fully squared away.
As far as IronLizards suggestion of possibly backdating insurance, that is highly illeagal and if an agent offers to do this, walk away.
Be happy this didn't happen in Oregon, you can permanently lose your vehicle (not your license, the actual car) for no-insurance tickets, it's not fun.
Hope that helps.
posted by efalk at 11:44 PM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Do not tell your insurer about tickets. They will run a check when you sign up. This takes them about 30 seconds and are frequently incorrect (missing items).
However, eventually they find out about it. When that happens, you get sent a rebate check for the balance of your year's insurance, along with a nasty letter informing you that you are no longer insured, and because you violated the terms of your contract by not disclosing, you in fact never were a holder of a valid policy. In other words, you paid for insurance but you were never covered by insurance.
Would you be surprised to learn that sometimes the insurance companies look a little harder for this kind of thing after you've filed a claim?
posted by ikkyu2 at 2:24 AM on January 10, 2007
However, eventually they find out about it. When that happens, you get sent a rebate check for the balance of your year's insurance, along with a nasty letter informing you that you are no longer insured, and because you violated the terms of your contract by not disclosing, you in fact never were a holder of a valid policy. In other words, you paid for insurance but you were never covered by insurance.
Would you be surprised to learn that sometimes the insurance companies look a little harder for this kind of thing after you've filed a claim?
posted by ikkyu2 at 2:24 AM on January 10, 2007
At least, that's what happened to me in New Jersey. efalk seems to be implying that it can't happen, but I have the letter in my files.
posted by ikkyu2 at 2:26 AM on January 10, 2007
posted by ikkyu2 at 2:26 AM on January 10, 2007
Just wanted to add: He WILL need an sr-22 in Texas. Often, dps is very slow about sending you the letter (it's taken months) but eventually, you will get it.
posted by IronLizard at 6:28 AM on January 10, 2007
posted by IronLizard at 6:28 AM on January 10, 2007
Yes, they run a check, but I've spoken with people who've told me they've had two DUIs and guess what? I only saw one. And you better believe I had to rate those customers as if they had two DUIs. What you admit, whether or not it shows on your record, is used against you. If they find it, then fine, but no point in handing them more ammo than they need.
I forgot to mention, you will be uninsurable to most companies until he gets his license. If you have insurance now I recommend avoiding your company when you get quotes just to stay off of their radar until he has the license. If in the event you do find a company that will write a policy for just yourself (GEICO is not one of them, just so you know) your husband will still need to have insurance if he's required to have an SR-22. In all likelihood, it's more likely to be cheaper for the both of you to have the policy together (you get better rates for being married, multiple car discount, etc).
ikkyu2 - NJ has some crazy insurance laws. In your instance it may not have been the way the company wanted to do it, but the way the law made them do it. MVR and CLUE reports are almost instantaneous now; the chances of a company saying "oh by the way we see this now" six months later is highly unlikely. In the event that it does occur, most of the time they simply inform you of your raised rates. They may or may not backdate it. In any event, you are covered until your next payment (assuming this wasn't a serious offense, such as a DUI or major traffic accident). Sorry that it happened to you though.
posted by sephira at 6:16 PM on January 10, 2007
I forgot to mention, you will be uninsurable to most companies until he gets his license. If you have insurance now I recommend avoiding your company when you get quotes just to stay off of their radar until he has the license. If in the event you do find a company that will write a policy for just yourself (GEICO is not one of them, just so you know) your husband will still need to have insurance if he's required to have an SR-22. In all likelihood, it's more likely to be cheaper for the both of you to have the policy together (you get better rates for being married, multiple car discount, etc).
ikkyu2 - NJ has some crazy insurance laws. In your instance it may not have been the way the company wanted to do it, but the way the law made them do it. MVR and CLUE reports are almost instantaneous now; the chances of a company saying "oh by the way we see this now" six months later is highly unlikely. In the event that it does occur, most of the time they simply inform you of your raised rates. They may or may not backdate it. In any event, you are covered until your next payment (assuming this wasn't a serious offense, such as a DUI or major traffic accident). Sorry that it happened to you though.
posted by sephira at 6:16 PM on January 10, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Aren't the registration/tags the same thing? Why can't you just say you brought a vehicle into the state and need to register it?
posted by Big_B at 2:10 PM on January 9, 2007