How to apologize for a trauma response?
June 18, 2023 10:53 PM Subscribe
I start chemo in about a week and an half, so decided to join my immediate/extended family to camp for this weekend, to grab the opportunity to see everyone before starting the process. Tonight, we were playing a game of high-stakes Yahtzee, and I had a bad trigger, but feel very guilty for my reaction.
Today/tonight, we had some really high winds, and many of us were feeling very cold and wore sweaters—very unusual for June. After we finished playing high-stakes Yahtzee, the losers (us) had to jump in the lake. As I was already feeling very cold, I expressed concerns for getting hypotrema, so told the group I didn’t feel comfortable going in the water (especially considering how cold it was outside). I was basically kind of pressured into going in, so reculantly went in. It was very dark outside, and as a Deaf person, I have terrible balance at night due to not being able to hear, so I had a hard time keeping my balance in the darkness. The winners were kind of “leering” and flashing lights on and off. It was basically sensory overload, I think, and it was a bad trigger — brought me back to a dark place where I was bullied and laughed at. I was also annoyed and upset with my mom (who was part of the winner group) because last night, she had said if I lost, I could just refuse to jump in the water, but tonight, it didn’t go that way, and I was upset by her inconsistency. My teeth was chattering and I was shivering badly.
I know it wasn’t their intention at all, and I know it was all fun and games, but I kind of snapped. I snapped at my mom that it wasn’t funny at all, and asked her what was wrong with everyone. I then stormed off. Now I feel so guilty and terrible for my reaction, but looking back, it was a trauma response and kind of a “trauma blackout”. Everyone seemed kind of shocked/confused, and I feel so bad for ruining everyone’s night. I suspect stress about upcoming chemo also might had played a hand in this. I definitely plan to talk with my therapist ASAP when I get back home, but want advice on how to fix the immediate issue at hand. If it helps, my family can get pretty competitive at times.
How do I fix this situation? I feel terrible and guilty.
Today/tonight, we had some really high winds, and many of us were feeling very cold and wore sweaters—very unusual for June. After we finished playing high-stakes Yahtzee, the losers (us) had to jump in the lake. As I was already feeling very cold, I expressed concerns for getting hypotrema, so told the group I didn’t feel comfortable going in the water (especially considering how cold it was outside). I was basically kind of pressured into going in, so reculantly went in. It was very dark outside, and as a Deaf person, I have terrible balance at night due to not being able to hear, so I had a hard time keeping my balance in the darkness. The winners were kind of “leering” and flashing lights on and off. It was basically sensory overload, I think, and it was a bad trigger — brought me back to a dark place where I was bullied and laughed at. I was also annoyed and upset with my mom (who was part of the winner group) because last night, she had said if I lost, I could just refuse to jump in the water, but tonight, it didn’t go that way, and I was upset by her inconsistency. My teeth was chattering and I was shivering badly.
I know it wasn’t their intention at all, and I know it was all fun and games, but I kind of snapped. I snapped at my mom that it wasn’t funny at all, and asked her what was wrong with everyone. I then stormed off. Now I feel so guilty and terrible for my reaction, but looking back, it was a trauma response and kind of a “trauma blackout”. Everyone seemed kind of shocked/confused, and I feel so bad for ruining everyone’s night. I suspect stress about upcoming chemo also might had played a hand in this. I definitely plan to talk with my therapist ASAP when I get back home, but want advice on how to fix the immediate issue at hand. If it helps, my family can get pretty competitive at times.
How do I fix this situation? I feel terrible and guilty.
I'm sorry you experienced this. It's a tough one but in the future, you have to be responsible for your own boundaries and safety because obviously others won't do that for you.
Their idea to jump in the lake was stupid when it was cold, but you felt pressured. At the same time, what would have happened if you didn't jump? I have a feeling you would have been teased, so you did it to avoid that. But then you went against your own instincts of your own needs and safety. Then you lashed out, which did not make it better.
If you feel bad about lashing out, apologizing for lashing out would be appropriate. At the same time, setting a boundary that in the future you might not go along with certain things even if it was part of a game, etc. And hold that boundary.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 11:35 PM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Their idea to jump in the lake was stupid when it was cold, but you felt pressured. At the same time, what would have happened if you didn't jump? I have a feeling you would have been teased, so you did it to avoid that. But then you went against your own instincts of your own needs and safety. Then you lashed out, which did not make it better.
If you feel bad about lashing out, apologizing for lashing out would be appropriate. At the same time, setting a boundary that in the future you might not go along with certain things even if it was part of a game, etc. And hold that boundary.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 11:35 PM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
You did not ruin anyone’s night. If any apologies are due, then all those people who crowed about winning a silly game & then made you jump in the lake on a cold night should apologise for taking the whole thing way too far. No wonder you snapped, in the circumstances. Please forgive yourself.
posted by rd45 at 11:36 PM on June 18, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by rd45 at 11:36 PM on June 18, 2023 [19 favorites]
If there was anyone in particular I wanted to apologize to I would say "Sorry about that, I freaked out a bit" and move on. People are almost certainly more worried than hurt.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:37 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:37 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: They said if I didn’t go in the lake, they would push me in. This happened in the past, so I know that if I had refused to, they would have very likely pushed/dragged me in, so I figured it was easier just to do it and get it over with.
posted by dubious_dude at 11:41 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by dubious_dude at 11:41 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't think you fix the situation, because you didn't break the situation.
You advocated for yourself before and after the game, which is excellent.
Your mom went back on her word.
Your family forced you, after your protests, after your surgery for Stage III cancer last month and before you begin chemo next month, into a lake.
In cold weather. At night.
It wasn't "all fun and games" because it wasn't fun for you, and you matter.
There's no need for you to apologize to any of them. Approach tomorrow as the brand-new day it is, and be gracious if any of your loved ones offer apologies to you. It'd be swell if they did, because they sure acted like jerks.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:00 AM on June 19, 2023 [71 favorites]
You advocated for yourself before and after the game, which is excellent.
Your mom went back on her word.
Your family forced you, after your protests, after your surgery for Stage III cancer last month and before you begin chemo next month, into a lake.
In cold weather. At night.
It wasn't "all fun and games" because it wasn't fun for you, and you matter.
There's no need for you to apologize to any of them. Approach tomorrow as the brand-new day it is, and be gracious if any of your loved ones offer apologies to you. It'd be swell if they did, because they sure acted like jerks.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:00 AM on June 19, 2023 [71 favorites]
This is a hard question to answer because it seems obvious that your family was in the wrong. Forcing people into cold lakes is uncool. Forcing Deaf people into cold lakes in the dark is even more uncool. Forcing Deaf people with cancer and health concerns into cold dark lakes is hugely, massively, monumentally uncool! In my estimation, you felt bad about it because it was bad. You’re having a hard time and it’s your friends’ and family’s place to try and create a safe, fun, loving environment for you. This was not their finest hour, and I think the apology ought to come from them.
If you feel differently, though, you can just say “sorry I freaked out last night. I was uncomfortable and then the dynamic gave me a bit of a flashback to when I got bullied. I’m glad you’re all here spending time with me.”
posted by hungrytiger at 12:18 AM on June 19, 2023 [33 favorites]
If you feel differently, though, you can just say “sorry I freaked out last night. I was uncomfortable and then the dynamic gave me a bit of a flashback to when I got bullied. I’m glad you’re all here spending time with me.”
posted by hungrytiger at 12:18 AM on June 19, 2023 [33 favorites]
Dubious Dude, in some of your asks there's a sense that you've got a feeling that your reaction in a social setting is a bit- off - and sometimes, that's true! But in this situation your reaction is entirely appropriate.
You were triggered to remember the bullying because this was bullying.
posted by freethefeet at 1:17 AM on June 19, 2023 [47 favorites]
You were triggered to remember the bullying because this was bullying.
posted by freethefeet at 1:17 AM on June 19, 2023 [47 favorites]
That was an abusive situation. They should apologize, not you.
posted by yueliang at 1:26 AM on June 19, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by yueliang at 1:26 AM on June 19, 2023 [19 favorites]
They said if I didn’t go in the lake, they would push me in. This happened in the past, so I know that if I had refused to, they would have very likely pushed/dragged me in
Fuck that noise. You owe them nothing. I'm sorry you have such a shit family.
posted by flabdablet at 1:47 AM on June 19, 2023 [27 favorites]
Fuck that noise. You owe them nothing. I'm sorry you have such a shit family.
posted by flabdablet at 1:47 AM on June 19, 2023 [27 favorites]
I agree with everyone else that you did nothing wrong and your family's behavior is SHOCKING.
If you are writing this in the middle of the night and wondering how to act with everyone in the morning, I suggest you act like nothing is wrong, and DO NOT APOLOGIZE. You did nothing wrong. Anger is a boundary setting emotion and your anger arose and set some boundaries.
If anyone should apologize to you, just say, "thanks for the apology I appreciate it".
If anyone should continue the teasing or say something like, "ha ha you got pretty worked up last night" what I have said in similar situations is, with a light and breezy tone, "oh, yeah, I'm still mad about that but we don't have to talk about it."
anything after that greet with a dead-eyed stare. They are the ones being weird. Return the weirdness to sender.
posted by Jenny'sCricket at 1:53 AM on June 19, 2023 [47 favorites]
If you are writing this in the middle of the night and wondering how to act with everyone in the morning, I suggest you act like nothing is wrong, and DO NOT APOLOGIZE. You did nothing wrong. Anger is a boundary setting emotion and your anger arose and set some boundaries.
If anyone should apologize to you, just say, "thanks for the apology I appreciate it".
If anyone should continue the teasing or say something like, "ha ha you got pretty worked up last night" what I have said in similar situations is, with a light and breezy tone, "oh, yeah, I'm still mad about that but we don't have to talk about it."
anything after that greet with a dead-eyed stare. They are the ones being weird. Return the weirdness to sender.
posted by Jenny'sCricket at 1:53 AM on June 19, 2023 [47 favorites]
You’re asking the wrong question. It should go, So my family are assholes…and follow on from there. Because that, my friend, is the real problem.
posted by Jubey at 2:03 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 2:03 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
You were going to be tossed in the water no matter what. Everybody leering and laughing and flickering lights on/off. You're losing your balance, freezing cold, chilling, you're weak and scared and off your game anyways because you're scared and sick but you don't get to tee off on them when they're big jerks?
I know it wasn’t their intention at all,
I am not at all sure on this.
and I know it was all fun and games,
Fun and games for who? Damn sure wasn't fun and games for you.
but I kind of snapped.
I'm glad you barked at them. I wish you'd stomped on their toes "Oh, heck, did that hurt? It was all fun and games you see."
Next time you're around these people have with you a big honkin' tube of Preparation H, because they are a flaring pack of hemorrhoids.
posted by dancestoblue at 2:03 AM on June 19, 2023 [16 favorites]
I know it wasn’t their intention at all,
I am not at all sure on this.
and I know it was all fun and games,
Fun and games for who? Damn sure wasn't fun and games for you.
but I kind of snapped.
I'm glad you barked at them. I wish you'd stomped on their toes "Oh, heck, did that hurt? It was all fun and games you see."
Next time you're around these people have with you a big honkin' tube of Preparation H, because they are a flaring pack of hemorrhoids.
posted by dancestoblue at 2:03 AM on June 19, 2023 [16 favorites]
Your family’s behavior described here is shocking to me. That might not be what you want to hear, as a vulnerable person who may need to depend on some of them. I’m sorry.
posted by eirias at 2:38 AM on June 19, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by eirias at 2:38 AM on June 19, 2023 [25 favorites]
Wow. "Return the awkwardness to sender" is the phrase that came to my mind too. You did not ruin the night, they decided to force unwilling people into a cold lake in the dark! If the dark lake was that great they could have gone in themselves. The fun part was making you do it. You do not have to fix this for them.
If you need to smooth this over to get through the rest of the event without further bullying, then I guess you apologize for snapping. But you asked the right question at the time, I am also wondering what is wrong with everyone there. Take care.
posted by mersen at 2:40 AM on June 19, 2023
If you need to smooth this over to get through the rest of the event without further bullying, then I guess you apologize for snapping. But you asked the right question at the time, I am also wondering what is wrong with everyone there. Take care.
posted by mersen at 2:40 AM on June 19, 2023
Wow. I just want to nth that this is awful, I can't believe they did that to you and you absolutely have nothing to apologise for. It was not fun and games for you, and they should have been capable of gracefully letting you off the hook, and letting the people go in for whom it was fun and games, while you stood politely on the sidelines in your cosy sweater.
posted by penguin pie at 2:52 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by penguin pie at 2:52 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
If this had happened to me, I would have packed my things and left, without feeling a shred of guilt or shame for doing it.
posted by Hogshead at 3:43 AM on June 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by Hogshead at 3:43 AM on June 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
Your reaction was 100% okay. I agree with you - what was everyone thinking???!! That was a completely understandable emotional reaction to a difficult and disrespectful situation. I am not Deaf and don’t have cancer and I absolutely do not like being put in those kinds of situations and I don’t at my age love cold lakes unless I choose them.
Look, the concept of consensual behaviour is not limited to sex. Even if you consented to a game penalty, you have the right to withdraw your consent at any point. It would be fine for people to say “awww,” but not to threaten to toss you in the water.
Your statement was fine. If they can’t take that, maybe don’t threaten to throw people in a lake! Problem solved.
Good for you. I hope you get up this morning glad you stood up for yourself.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:46 AM on June 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
Look, the concept of consensual behaviour is not limited to sex. Even if you consented to a game penalty, you have the right to withdraw your consent at any point. It would be fine for people to say “awww,” but not to threaten to toss you in the water.
Your statement was fine. If they can’t take that, maybe don’t threaten to throw people in a lake! Problem solved.
Good for you. I hope you get up this morning glad you stood up for yourself.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:46 AM on June 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
Just want to send you some of the empathy you deserved last night. I imagine (and maybe im projecting) that after your surgery and before starting chemo for a scary diagnosis that would make anyone feel very vulnerable, you had the entirely reasonable, human, appropriate wish that this time with family would help you feel surrounded by warmth and support and being seen.
Instead they ignored your boundaries, your health condition, AND considerations around your status as a Deaf person and you were pretty much forced into freezing water, lest you be shoved into it.
From where I sit, your anger and urge to defend yourself was not pathological, and I don’t want you to beat yourself up anymore about your reaction under these extraordinary circumstances.
posted by blue suede stockings at 4:32 AM on June 19, 2023 [18 favorites]
Instead they ignored your boundaries, your health condition, AND considerations around your status as a Deaf person and you were pretty much forced into freezing water, lest you be shoved into it.
From where I sit, your anger and urge to defend yourself was not pathological, and I don’t want you to beat yourself up anymore about your reaction under these extraordinary circumstances.
posted by blue suede stockings at 4:32 AM on June 19, 2023 [18 favorites]
Aside from nthing the rest of the answers with this was not OK behaviour and your response was alot calmer then I would have been... but don't feel bad for feeling bad about your response. It's not normal to have to yell at your friends and family in what should be a fun safe space. But of course you are going to feel bad about it because you wouldn't put anyone in this position so of course your brain is "I should apologise, I shouldn't be yelling at my friends and family in a safe fun space, I must have done something wrong". So be nice to yourself, it shows the kind of person you are that you assume your family would be kind and lovely to you because you are kind and lovely to them!
posted by Lesium at 4:50 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Lesium at 4:50 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
These sound like people I would never want to hang out with again -- seriously, threaten to throw you in a lake??? --- so to my mind you might have gone so far as to entirely burn the bridge with a "fuck off and die you shitgibbons" and storming off into the night and I'd say you'd done the right thing. But your people aren't my people. You have this internet stranger's permission to feel justified at whatever you did and issue no apology at all.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:01 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:01 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
Don't threadsit just to answer my question, but -- are you okay? like, seriously, are you okay?
Because what those shitheels you happen to be related to did to you sounds like it could make anyone be Not Okay, never mind someone in your situation.
It goes beyond bullying to abuse, in my opinion. They abused you. You don't have to apologize for being abused. They need to reconsider A WHOLE LOT of their behavior toward you -- the abject apology they owe you is the LEAST of it.
posted by humbug at 5:28 AM on June 19, 2023 [19 favorites]
Because what those shitheels you happen to be related to did to you sounds like it could make anyone be Not Okay, never mind someone in your situation.
It goes beyond bullying to abuse, in my opinion. They abused you. You don't have to apologize for being abused. They need to reconsider A WHOLE LOT of their behavior toward you -- the abject apology they owe you is the LEAST of it.
posted by humbug at 5:28 AM on June 19, 2023 [19 favorites]
You did nothing wrong here - I cannot fathom pressuring someone who has physical disabilities and is going through chemo into doing something for the sake of a Yahtzee game. The only scenario I could even imagine something like this occurring in my life was if you were the primary shit talker and were the primary person pushing the need for a bet and this punishment in particular - but it sounds like you were not that and were reluctant from the get go.
My hope is, in the light of day - your family realizes the error of their ways and apologizes profusely to YOU for their complete lack of empathy and frankly bullying behavior. My guess is - they will keep a herd mentality that they did nothing wrong (after all - others went along with it) and you'll be painted as being too sensitive. It will hurt, but my hope is by setting your expectations here - you at least won't be surprised by it.
If it helps, my family can get pretty competitive at times.
I have a non-representative sample size of my own family and acquaintances to go on, but I have found a lot of people excuse their abusive behavior in games and sports as being "competitive". Gaslighting, pushing past people's boundaries, verbal abuse under the guise of "it's not real" - they are just places where abusive people find license to be who they really are. Don't accept their talking points for why their behavior is okay during games - it is just as wrong and damaging as if they did it for no reason other than to bully you.
posted by openhearted at 5:49 AM on June 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
My hope is, in the light of day - your family realizes the error of their ways and apologizes profusely to YOU for their complete lack of empathy and frankly bullying behavior. My guess is - they will keep a herd mentality that they did nothing wrong (after all - others went along with it) and you'll be painted as being too sensitive. It will hurt, but my hope is by setting your expectations here - you at least won't be surprised by it.
If it helps, my family can get pretty competitive at times.
I have a non-representative sample size of my own family and acquaintances to go on, but I have found a lot of people excuse their abusive behavior in games and sports as being "competitive". Gaslighting, pushing past people's boundaries, verbal abuse under the guise of "it's not real" - they are just places where abusive people find license to be who they really are. Don't accept their talking points for why their behavior is okay during games - it is just as wrong and damaging as if they did it for no reason other than to bully you.
posted by openhearted at 5:49 AM on June 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
You are stressed because you have cancer and are preparing for a difficult treatment. So instead of putting up with bullying, you pushed back. This was an entirely appropriate response. I recommend taking the time to assess the competitive behavior and deciding where you will draw a line. Pushing somebody in a lake at night? Hell, no. Good for you for standing up to bullying.
posted by theora55 at 7:35 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 7:35 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
They said if I didn’t go in the lake, they would push me in.
You owe no apology. This is one of those "situations I could have avoided if I'd been an asshole" type situations. Not that you would have been an asshole to nope out, but if you'd just noped out instead of trying to please your family then you wouldn't have had the trauma response.
But they threatened to make you do something you clearly didn't want to. You owe them no apology, they oweyou an apology. Under no circumstances should people force people to get into a body of water, at night, and then taunt the person while they're trying to swim.
This is how people drown. They owe you a massive apology.
posted by jzb at 7:56 AM on June 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
You owe no apology. This is one of those "situations I could have avoided if I'd been an asshole" type situations. Not that you would have been an asshole to nope out, but if you'd just noped out instead of trying to please your family then you wouldn't have had the trauma response.
But they threatened to make you do something you clearly didn't want to. You owe them no apology, they owe
This is how people drown. They owe you a massive apology.
posted by jzb at 7:56 AM on June 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
I love this: "'oh, yeah, I'm still mad about that but we don't have to talk about it,'" and I hope somebody is clueless enough to bring it up so you can use it.
If you're not ready to think of your family as monsters, you could think of it this way:
They're weirded out/sad/scared about your cancer.
They don't want you to feel like they're treating you differently because of it.
They want to pretend it isn't there or that it's going to go away and you'll be fine because facing the alternative hurts too much or is too scary.
So they "included" you, kindly they thought, in the group, which meant shoving you in a freezing dark lake.
I'm pretty sure at least some of them are simply wads, but it's possible that for some of them a part of why they did this idiotic thing may have been misguided, dopey attempts at showing love.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:08 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
If you're not ready to think of your family as monsters, you could think of it this way:
They're weirded out/sad/scared about your cancer.
They don't want you to feel like they're treating you differently because of it.
They want to pretend it isn't there or that it's going to go away and you'll be fine because facing the alternative hurts too much or is too scary.
So they "included" you, kindly they thought, in the group, which meant shoving you in a freezing dark lake.
I'm pretty sure at least some of them are simply wads, but it's possible that for some of them a part of why they did this idiotic thing may have been misguided, dopey attempts at showing love.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:08 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm a little put off by the pile-on in this thread suggesting that the OPs feelings are wrong.
It doesn't matter what someone else does to me, I have standards for my own behavior. When I violate them I feel guilty about it and sometimes I consider apologizing -- not for their sake but for mine. It is part of processing the feeling that I have failed myself.
I may choose to actually speak with the other person(s) or not based on my level of respect for them, but my failure to live up to my own standards is real and I need to process that. I think the OP does too.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:19 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It doesn't matter what someone else does to me, I have standards for my own behavior. When I violate them I feel guilty about it and sometimes I consider apologizing -- not for their sake but for mine. It is part of processing the feeling that I have failed myself.
I may choose to actually speak with the other person(s) or not based on my level of respect for them, but my failure to live up to my own standards is real and I need to process that. I think the OP does too.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:19 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
They said if I didn’t go in the lake, they would push me in.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaat. This would be very questionable under any circumstances, but you're deaf and you're in the middle of cancer treatment! You would be justified in not spending any more time in these people's physical company for several years. No apology owed to anyone.
If I could add a tiny tiny footnote, though, I would suggest working on disentangling the idea of losing your temper or putting your foot down from being "triggered." I get the impression you find trauma response a useful rubric, but sometimes it's ill-fitting and can distract from questions of responsibility and how to cope with strong feelings.
posted by praemunire at 10:21 AM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Whaaaaaaaaaaaat. This would be very questionable under any circumstances, but you're deaf and you're in the middle of cancer treatment! You would be justified in not spending any more time in these people's physical company for several years. No apology owed to anyone.
If I could add a tiny tiny footnote, though, I would suggest working on disentangling the idea of losing your temper or putting your foot down from being "triggered." I get the impression you find trauma response a useful rubric, but sometimes it's ill-fitting and can distract from questions of responsibility and how to cope with strong feelings.
posted by praemunire at 10:21 AM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
No.
I say no to them. They were way over the line.
You're starting chemo in a week and a half?!?!? Nobody should be pushing you into a lake. What if you got cold and got sicker? What if you picked up a parasite? What if your foot got caught on a root or something underwater?
The stress _ALONE_ is not cool.
If you're living with your mom -- it's OK to be compassionate toward her. Someone who would do that to their own child in this situation doesn't really understand how people work.
I hope you do love her and care for her, but also keep perspective: you should protect yourself -- physically and emotionally -- by using your brain to avoid difficult/risky situations; be cautious about emotional vulnerability with her (and those friends also in the scene); and think of yourself as an adult in charge of keeping the tender beautiful creature that is the heart of you, dubious_dude, safe.
posted by amtho at 11:08 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I say no to them. They were way over the line.
You're starting chemo in a week and a half?!?!? Nobody should be pushing you into a lake. What if you got cold and got sicker? What if you picked up a parasite? What if your foot got caught on a root or something underwater?
The stress _ALONE_ is not cool.
If you're living with your mom -- it's OK to be compassionate toward her. Someone who would do that to their own child in this situation doesn't really understand how people work.
I hope you do love her and care for her, but also keep perspective: you should protect yourself -- physically and emotionally -- by using your brain to avoid difficult/risky situations; be cautious about emotional vulnerability with her (and those friends also in the scene); and think of yourself as an adult in charge of keeping the tender beautiful creature that is the heart of you, dubious_dude, safe.
posted by amtho at 11:08 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
What they did wasn't just unsafe, abusive, and wrong, under these circumstances it was assault and blatant fucking disregard for your health. They should be ashamed of themselves, just as a start.
(I am saying this under the assumption you DO NOT have a chemo port yet, they didn't install it during your surgery? You're recovering from surgery a month ago, right? If you do have a port, they should go to jail and you should let your infusion coordinator or onc's office know and ask if you should go to the ER. Lake water is fetid.)
If you want this fixed, you can demand sincere apologies from everyone involved, apologies that actually communicate they understand what they did wrong.
If other people try to bully you like this in the future, you just say no, that's not medically okay for me right now. That's not negotiable, don't offer negotiable protests.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:37 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
(I am saying this under the assumption you DO NOT have a chemo port yet, they didn't install it during your surgery? You're recovering from surgery a month ago, right? If you do have a port, they should go to jail and you should let your infusion coordinator or onc's office know and ask if you should go to the ER. Lake water is fetid.)
If you want this fixed, you can demand sincere apologies from everyone involved, apologies that actually communicate they understand what they did wrong.
If other people try to bully you like this in the future, you just say no, that's not medically okay for me right now. That's not negotiable, don't offer negotiable protests.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:37 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
Following up -- I understand why you feel like you should apologize, I've been in a lot of different abusive situations (also related to my own disabilities) and has been forced to apologize in the past for causing upset when it was really other people who instigated and created the situations. It's created a horrible feedback loop where I feel like I should apologize because if they hated me so much, I deserved it and I caused the problem, which is also extremely not true and is how abuse continues. It's gaslighting and victim blaming, and how abuse works. To this day, I am still working on recovering from that in therapy and practicing with safe chosen family. Your feelings are valid, it's well documented why they exist, but it also does not mean that it is what should happen in this scenario, because it's pushing all accountability off of them and onto you.
My honest answer is that, I don't know if even asking them to apologize is the safest thing for you, they may take it out and do another pile-on and abuse you again, or ignore you -- the real next steps is that I think you need to leave the premises immediately and go back to a safer place and be with people you can trust. I would also consider reducing contact with them as well.
posted by yueliang at 11:48 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
My honest answer is that, I don't know if even asking them to apologize is the safest thing for you, they may take it out and do another pile-on and abuse you again, or ignore you -- the real next steps is that I think you need to leave the premises immediately and go back to a safer place and be with people you can trust. I would also consider reducing contact with them as well.
posted by yueliang at 11:48 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Wow, thanks for all the comments. Not going to lie, it was definitely a bit overwhelming, but I feel so validated and seen right now.
So far today, nobody has said anything about last night — basically swept it under the rug. I’m leaving tonight (had flight reservations already), and was picked up/will be dropped off, so no way to leave immediately. I’m okay for now, though. As long as nobody says anything or brings it up, that’s fine, and if so, I’ll use the script Jenny’s Cricket offered. If I was going to be here for a week, it’d be different, but it was already planned to leave tonight.
Yeuliang nailed it, though — that’s exactly what has happened many times with my family over the years. To be fair, though, I was a pretty reactive kid back in the day, and was basically told I was causing drama, which could be true, but yes, it’s victim shaming/blaming, and my family has done that in the past. It’s really complicated because of course I love my family and it’s hard to see that what happened was abuse, but it was. I really do think they didn’t realize how traumatic it was for me last night and everyone got carried away, though, to be fair.
I think what I will do is get through today, hopefully without any further incident, and once I’m back home in DC and settled/back in my safe space, talk with my mom and explain why what happened last night was so hurtful and why I lashed out. I’m also thinking about getting some space from my mom — this isn’t the first incident, and I’m just kind of plain fed up. I love her and always will, but I need some space.
(I am saying this under the assumption you DO NOT have a chemo port yet, they didn't install it during your surgery?)
Fortunately, no port installation yet. That’s next Monday — that’s why I wanted to grab time and be with family before all that.
My guess is - they will keep a herd mentality that they did nothing wrong (after all - others went along with it) and you'll be painted as being too sensitive.
Are you me, or in my family? So accurate — happened before.
are you okay? like, seriously, are you okay?
Kind of. Still processing. It’s still pretty cold and windy, and none of us really were prepared for it. Disappointed and sad that my vacation had such a rough spot, kind of wishing things could have went differently.
posted by dubious_dude at 12:14 PM on June 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
So far today, nobody has said anything about last night — basically swept it under the rug. I’m leaving tonight (had flight reservations already), and was picked up/will be dropped off, so no way to leave immediately. I’m okay for now, though. As long as nobody says anything or brings it up, that’s fine, and if so, I’ll use the script Jenny’s Cricket offered. If I was going to be here for a week, it’d be different, but it was already planned to leave tonight.
Yeuliang nailed it, though — that’s exactly what has happened many times with my family over the years. To be fair, though, I was a pretty reactive kid back in the day, and was basically told I was causing drama, which could be true, but yes, it’s victim shaming/blaming, and my family has done that in the past. It’s really complicated because of course I love my family and it’s hard to see that what happened was abuse, but it was. I really do think they didn’t realize how traumatic it was for me last night and everyone got carried away, though, to be fair.
I think what I will do is get through today, hopefully without any further incident, and once I’m back home in DC and settled/back in my safe space, talk with my mom and explain why what happened last night was so hurtful and why I lashed out. I’m also thinking about getting some space from my mom — this isn’t the first incident, and I’m just kind of plain fed up. I love her and always will, but I need some space.
(I am saying this under the assumption you DO NOT have a chemo port yet, they didn't install it during your surgery?)
Fortunately, no port installation yet. That’s next Monday — that’s why I wanted to grab time and be with family before all that.
My guess is - they will keep a herd mentality that they did nothing wrong (after all - others went along with it) and you'll be painted as being too sensitive.
Are you me, or in my family? So accurate — happened before.
are you okay? like, seriously, are you okay?
Kind of. Still processing. It’s still pretty cold and windy, and none of us really were prepared for it. Disappointed and sad that my vacation had such a rough spot, kind of wishing things could have went differently.
posted by dubious_dude at 12:14 PM on June 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
If I were on vacation with you, right after you had surgery and right before you start chemo, I would be ALL about making sure you felt cared for and loved. I'd want to make sure I was doing everything I could to build you up both physically and emotionally. I'd probably have a quiet moment with you before the trip to ask what activities would feel good for you and what you needed.
Your family? They did the exact opposite of this.
I'm so sorry, dubious_dude, you deserve better than this treatment. Please take gentle care of yourself.
posted by mcduff at 12:36 PM on June 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
Your family? They did the exact opposite of this.
I'm so sorry, dubious_dude, you deserve better than this treatment. Please take gentle care of yourself.
posted by mcduff at 12:36 PM on June 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
As someone who’s had colon cancer surgery, I am incandescent with rage on your behalf. I can’t even imagine going on a lake vacation in the condition where I was a month after surgery, let alone being forced into a dark cold lake, and having lights flashed at me while being taunted—and I’m a hearing person. I’m so sorry you endured that and that the people you need to rely on for support are incapable of being decent humans.
I think pulling back a bit as you mentioned in your update is a good idea. If they’re so clearly incapable of understanding why you snapped and taking responsibility for their dangerous, cruel actions, you’re safer away from them with the next stage of your treatment.
I agree that it’d be a good idea to maybe check in with your medical team too. I hope your therapist can help smooth over some of the emotions around this. I am pulling for you—you deserve so much better than those vile people.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 1:28 PM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
I think pulling back a bit as you mentioned in your update is a good idea. If they’re so clearly incapable of understanding why you snapped and taking responsibility for their dangerous, cruel actions, you’re safer away from them with the next stage of your treatment.
I agree that it’d be a good idea to maybe check in with your medical team too. I hope your therapist can help smooth over some of the emotions around this. I am pulling for you—you deserve so much better than those vile people.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 1:28 PM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
Were these people drunk? I'm not sure what changes if the answer is Yes, except, God, don't hang out with them after sundown. Like vampires.
Agree with everyone else you did nothing inappropriate, getting pissed is a good and righteous and mindful things sometimes. Only apologize if you're actually sorry. As in, 'I'm sorry I came.'
These people seem to have a history of minimizing feelings, yours and quite possibly their own. If they're very guarded, they might even be downplaying the upcoming chemo without realizing it, in their own minds, because they love you and they clearly don't know how to be still with emotion, to sit with it, so they act 'as if'; 'as if' nothing is wrong or could be wrong or anyone might require in any moment a different type of human awareness than "too many beers playing competitive Yahtzee, gotta blow that steam off forcing as many people into cold water as possible which is unpleasant sure but hey, at least none of us has to be vulnerable with each other because THAT would suck."
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:45 PM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Agree with everyone else you did nothing inappropriate, getting pissed is a good and righteous and mindful things sometimes. Only apologize if you're actually sorry. As in, 'I'm sorry I came.'
These people seem to have a history of minimizing feelings, yours and quite possibly their own. If they're very guarded, they might even be downplaying the upcoming chemo without realizing it, in their own minds, because they love you and they clearly don't know how to be still with emotion, to sit with it, so they act 'as if'; 'as if' nothing is wrong or could be wrong or anyone might require in any moment a different type of human awareness than "too many beers playing competitive Yahtzee, gotta blow that steam off forcing as many people into cold water as possible which is unpleasant sure but hey, at least none of us has to be vulnerable with each other because THAT would suck."
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:45 PM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Going forward, read Stop Walking on Eggshells, which is about dealing with people who have personality disorders, notably Borderline or Narcissism, but is really about establishing and maintaining boundaries. There are other books, too, a librarian can help. Over time, talk to family members about how much the competitive/ bullying behavior sucks, and that you are opting out, then show them by changing your behavior. Families have entrenched systems, and change is often difficult but it's possible, and worthwhile.
Good luck with chemo and everything.
posted by theora55 at 7:34 AM on June 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Good luck with chemo and everything.
posted by theora55 at 7:34 AM on June 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
I feel terrible and guilty.
This tells me you have internalized the party line on these situations. Feeling like this is part of the trauma, not part of a rational response to it. You have been conditioned to feel bad (for harm done *to* you!) and want to apologize. Recognizing and training yourself out of those reactions (and that's hard) is the very best thing you can do here.
posted by Dashy at 11:02 AM on June 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
This tells me you have internalized the party line on these situations. Feeling like this is part of the trauma, not part of a rational response to it. You have been conditioned to feel bad (for harm done *to* you!) and want to apologize. Recognizing and training yourself out of those reactions (and that's hard) is the very best thing you can do here.
posted by Dashy at 11:02 AM on June 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Well thanks DubiousDude, you’ve now given me a great alternative to “kicking puppies” when it comes to describing a bunch of jerks: “throwing a deaf cancer patient into a cold lake.”
(Yeah, that’s really bad behavior on their part. You totally did not overreact in trying to protect your fragile health.)
I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this level of insensitivity from your family!
posted by ec2y at 2:41 PM on June 20, 2023
(Yeah, that’s really bad behavior on their part. You totally did not overreact in trying to protect your fragile health.)
I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this level of insensitivity from your family!
posted by ec2y at 2:41 PM on June 20, 2023
after chemo, show them this thread, and the responses of everyone
posted by lalochezia at 7:34 PM on June 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 7:34 PM on June 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
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posted by Iteki at 11:27 PM on June 18, 2023 [61 favorites]