4-year-old uses incorrect pronouns and verb conjugations

February 6, 2023 10:50 AM

My 4 (nearly 5) year-old will be starting speech therapy soon. I have some questions about what might be going on to explain her particular weak areas.

I'm hoping someone can suggest what possible learning differences or disorders I might research a little bit, since I'm not very knowledgeable about speech difficulties. I'm feeling worried because she will start kindergarten next year and if she needs a diagnosis, I'd like to not be waiting until grade three-ish for that. Here are the relevant bits of information:

- She nearly always uses the wrong plural pronouns, ie. "Them went to the park." I've been repeating the correct sentence back to her "Oh, so THEY went to the park?" for a year now. And tried correcting her explicitly "No, we say THEY went, not THEM went". It doesn't work. Same thing with plural very conjugations
- Sometimes we are unable to understand certain words she says. It makes her frustrated.
- She has some pronunciation issues. So far, they sound minor to me.
- I find her a bit delayed in her sense of reality, which I chalk up to maybe being in her own little AHDH world, or maybe language delays make it harder for her to understand what's really going on (ie. I can't seem to get across that places she sees in media (Disneyland) are too far away and we can't go there, or telling everyone everyday that her friend is coming over for a sleepover, even though I say "No, we didn't make plans for that". Never being deterred by the fact that this sleepover never happens. These things are adorable, but I feel like they should be getting rarer as she approaches five.
- Yes I read to her nightly
- Her older sister has ADHD. She probably has ADHD, but isn't officially diagnosed yet.
- Her older sister has dysgraphia
- I am pretty sure I'm autistic. There is a genetic autism component in my family.


She's a happy, bright girl with a lot of determination. I have a strong sense that everything will sort itself out in the greater scheme of things, but I do think there's probably a delay/disorder/different here, and want to be informed.

Thanks!

posted by kitcat to Health & Fitness (17 answers total)

I don't think they learn proper conjugation and verb tense in public school until like 2nd and 3rd grade. So your kid is fine for now in terms of that, and the school my kids go to doesn't really grade for proper spelling, verb tense, etc even into the 4th grade due to the lost year of COVID.

Focus on the speech therapy and get that right first. You can always tutor later to catch up basic grammar.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:13 AM on February 6, 2023

Also, anecdotally, my wife is still bad at all of that due to a hearing issue she had when she was young. I'm not going to say that hearing them doesn't grate to me personally, but it's never held her back from working or doing perfectly fine in other life pursuits.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:15 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm not a child development expert, but I think it's pretty normal for 4 year olds to not understand that some places are far or that a sleepover is not happening if someone mentioned a sleepover to her once or explained to her that it's "when a friend comes to sleep over" and she liked that idea.

Do you travel with her a lot? Is she in a structured daycare/pre-k with language arts lessons? My son at that age didn't understand that his cousins in another state and his teacher from the previous country where we lived were not in NJ, and only started understanding that closer to 5, but we traveled a lot with him and showed him on the map and the globe many times. "Tomorrow" was any day in the future, "yesterday" was any day in the past so his friend coming over "tomorrow" was actuslly "next weekend" was also something hard to explain until he was about 5 and then things clicked thanks to school teaching all the days of the week in a more structured way.

Listen to your gut and start speech therapy and see what the therapist says a few months in, but a lot of this is pretty normal.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 11:29 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]

You are doing the exact right thing by bringing her to a speech therapist. Hooray! I would make one adjustment to how you respond when she says the wrong pronoun. What she is doing is incredibly common in kids learning to navigate grammar and syntax. Rather than state what is the wrong thing, echo back her exact same sentence with the correct word (and move on and don't say anything else). Just do it every time and not make it a thing by changing your tone of voice or even turning it back into a question to her. THere's actually a name for this technique that speech therapists use that I am forgetting. Most kids learn and grow out of it, some more slowly than others depending your specific child, and the speech therapist will help you unravel it. Maybe she struggles to make the "ey" sound at the end of "they" and the "mmm" sound is easier for her mouth, so she compensates? Who knows? Certainly not me! But I'm a 30+year teacher, alot of it in early reading, and there is nothing unusual in what you describe and whatever it is, early intervention is always best.
posted by archimago at 11:31 AM on February 6, 2023 [10 favorites]

Linguist here, though not a speech therapist. For what it's worth, "doesn't change in response to corrections" isn't a symptom, it's the norm: kids learn language by slowly figuring out how to imitate what they're hearing, not by responding to corrections, and the "X" — "No, we say Y" — "Yeah, X" thing you describe is common even in kids much older than yours.
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:34 AM on February 6, 2023 [11 favorites]

Came to say what archimago said. Recast their errors into the grammar you'd like to hear, model the behavior you like. My understanding is you don't even need to flag it as an error; just recast and model.
posted by adekllny at 11:35 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]

One idea: look for a catchy song (or make one) that repeats patterns using they and them in correct ways, and then sing it with her a bit. Maybe if she's exposed to the pattern a lot, she'll pick it up?

(No professional training in this, but I do have training in teaching second languages.)
posted by amtho at 12:23 PM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

For possible reassurance, it took my daughter forever to get "I" and "you" straight, meaning she called herself "you", as in if she wanted a banana, she'd say, "You want a banana." I've never seen a child have so much trouble with that for so long (though it seems like a tough concept), but it was just a quirk of the way she was thinking, and there were no long-term language issues of any kind.
posted by FencingGal at 12:28 PM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: I think people are missing that she's been using wrong pronouns and verb conjugations for an entire year now.

This might be normal, but I've learned to trust my gut as a mother by now. My eldest is 12, I knew for years there was a learning difference, and people all over the place were saying "Nah, she's fine, she doesn't need to be tested."

It would be helpful if some people could say "My child did this, no long-term issues" (thanks above), or "My child did this, had auditory processing challenges." I'm looking for some research rabbit holes to go down. They always turn up new search terms, new concepts, interesting things to think about. Also, being in Canada where we don't have timely access to learning interventions these days - I'm trying to be proactive.
posted by kitcat at 12:37 PM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

My sympathies as I know what it is like to go down this research hole. Without more information, it's difficult to suggest possible disorders to research. Would you be able to answer the following questions:

- How are her motor skills? Big muscles (gross motor) and small muscles like fingers(fine motor)?

- How is her receptive language? Is she able to understand what you are saying and follow directions/instructions?

- How is she socially? Does she get along with other kids in the class? Does she play interactively yet with other children?

- Have you seen an eye specialist? Hearing specialist?

- What specifically are her pronunciation issues? What sounds does she have problems producing? Does she avoid any sounds?
posted by ichimunki at 12:53 PM on February 6, 2023

Response by poster: - How are her motor skills? Big muscles (gross motor) and small muscles like fingers(fine motor)?
Pretty good. I've noticed her fingers are a bit weak or imprecise (she struggles fitting puzzle pieces into a slot skillfully). But she can cut paper and hold writing implements very well.

- How is her receptive language? Is she able to understand what you are saying and follow directions/instructions? Mostly yes. But she I can tell she's not absorbing the words when I read a story. She uses the pictures to understand what's happening.

- How is she socially? Does she get along with other kids in the class? Does she play interactively yet with other children? Yes. She loves her favorite people and plays well with other kids.

- Have you seen an eye specialist? Hearing specialist?
We have a hearing test booked. Eyes not looked at yet.

- What specifically are her pronunciation issues? What sounds does she have problems producing? Does she avoid any sounds? I think what you'd expect mostly "dem" instead of "them", "wittle" instead of "little". I don't think she avoid sounds. As for the words we can't understand - I think it's that she has heard them wrong, maybe, and she's saying something close to the actual word, but not close enough that any of us in the family can figure out what it is.
posted by kitcat at 1:05 PM on February 6, 2023

Response by poster: Now I'm threadsitting, sorry. I thought I should point out an example of a research hole - I started to wonder if maybe dyslexia could affect speech - and quickly realized that if it can (of course the internet says it can) - I don't have enough knowledge to judge the reliability of the sources I'm looking at or whether this is a newly realized thing or not. I also found something about trouble with clitic pronouns and dyslexia, but clitic in English is a little sophisticated and I wouldn't expect her to be able to form those phrases yet.
posted by kitcat at 1:20 PM on February 6, 2023

I have a lot of experience with special ed and language issues and I think it's great you are keeping your eyes open and advocating.

If she's getting a SLP evaluation, try not to stress too much about telling what the practitioner areas to assess; they will have a generally standard set of receptive and expressive language testing.

Please don't go down the research hole yet; this is when parents start to see every possible disorder a kid can have, and it's possible your daughter is developing completely typically.

(FYI, the language "issues" you speak of are completely normal.)
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:25 PM on February 6, 2023 [9 favorites]

My kids have a whole alphabet between them of issues and I had to push for medical care and sometimes second and third opinions. It’s hard and stressful. We have speech therapy on the back burner for the new toddler because she’s lagging but! The biggest thing is: is she happy? Yes. The rest can work out in time or find accommodations. Focus on her strengths and the slog of getting the OTs and tests and all that is secondary. Time you spend researching possible problems is anxiety passed on to her and robbing you both of hanging out in the park or listening to audiobooks while you colour together. I wish I could get back my time worrying for more time with my kids back then.

Although I will say a good speech therapist is gold. And if she talks oddly - yes bluntly some people will notice and it is a drawback for some things but it also filters out people who are patient and listen, and confidence goes a long way.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:58 PM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

I'm a former K-1-2 teacher and experienced a range of language processing skills at those ages. I'd say these aren't unusual. The speech and language specialist is your best pathway to understanding. We can't possibly evaluate her and there are many possibilities.

I will say that it's more normal that not for kids to process stories through illustrations at this stage. Some kids are early readers who naturally make the transition to following the words, but they are not in the majority.
posted by Miko at 8:25 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

Hey kitcat, I think the speech therapist will be able to answer your questions, but I also wanted to say to trust your gut. If your child doesn't improve, or the ST can't explain things, you'll be right to seek a second or third opinion. I'm also glad you have a hearing test scheduled. From your stories about reading her books, I thought you meant she wasn't following your read-aloud speech?

I don't know how involved hearing tests are for kids, but I had one done on myself recently and it was pretty dang interesting. They tested all kinds of stuff, including my ability to make out speech in a mixed conversation, the pressure in my eardrums, whispering, etc. Thought I'd mention it in case the tests they do seem too simple. I imagine there are different things they can do to test for auditory processing issues too. You'll get there! Your kid already has a great leg up with you advocating for her and having had experience with advocating for another child.
posted by purple_bird at 8:41 AM on February 7, 2023

kitcat, I know how frustrating it is to hear from experts to wait it out. I had the same experience. For me, researching helped fill the void and a big chunk of time which would have otherwise been consumed by anxiety. I don't regret the research I did because it was soothing for me and I came away with knowledge. I did not suggest diagnosis or push therapies to teachers and therapists but I quietly crossed off different disorders as my son's delays resolved.

However, I know the research hole makes some parents more anxious, irritable, and more apt to push things with teachers and therapists. If this is you, I would suggest letting this rest and let time reveal what it will.

But if research is soothing to you as it is to me and will not make you anxious, I would suggest certain topics below.

For me, I realized looking for a diagnosis meant little but a label and I went to look at therapies and how the therapies helped. Many of therapies are applicable across multiple diagnosis. This would tide over the time until you see a speech therapist. You may want to look at early childhood research on speech and cognition. It was fascinating for me. Note that it is an evolving field and answers today may not be the answers tomorrow. It is a good sign that she has good receptive speech and good social skills.

For teachers and therapists, they are genuinely saying the best and truest thing for this situation, to sit and wait. However, since you have gone through this with her older sister, it would be difficult for you to sit on your hands and not think about it. Teachers and therapists want to put the parents' minds at rest (and have parents stop bothering them!) in their interactions with parents. It probably has shown good results because probably about 95% of the cases resolve well and parents stop bothering them in the shorter term. But for me as a parent, I just nodded my head and went back to worrying in private.

Hopefully, these topics will keep you occupied until you have a speech therapist.
posted by ichimunki at 9:10 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]