Accident resulting in getting sued
May 11, 2022 10:27 AM Subscribe
My 21 year old college student was hit by a car while on a Lyme scooter 6 months ago. The driver 's insurance company now is suing her for over $4,000 and our insurance company is not covering it because she was on a scooter which they say means she is considered a pedestrian not a driver.
My college student daughter is an adult, but has no independent financial resources so I am the one who will be paying for this. I also am dealing with the legal and insurance paperwork and phone calls for them. Because this is anonymous I will say at the outset:
1. Please do not tell me to let them handle the legal or paperwork. This is absolutely not helpful advice in this case. **I do not need parenting advice here.**
2. Please do not tell me to let my daughter be responsible financially with a payment plan. I do not need parenting advice.
That said: YANML, YANherL.
What happened:
1. Daughter was on a Lyme scooter. There was a collision. A police report was made at the scene. Daughter indicated to the police that the Lyme brakes failed and she didn't stop at a stop sign.
2. We called our car insurance company. They indicated they could not assist because she was not driving a car.
3. The driver's insurance company sent my daughter several letters telling her to call them immediately. She (and I) called them over a dozen times and got voice mail. They never returned our call.
4. At some point, my daughter did talk to their insurance company. I told my daughter to tell them only "They hit me with their car," but evidently she said "My Lyme brakes failed" and they determined that she was at fault. We had not tried to sue Lyme and I do not think there was any way to legally determine at this point if their brakes failed. (I believe her, but I mean legally.)
5. Six months later, she receives a credit collection services bill for over $4,000. We do not know what this is supposed to be covering. Did their car get scratched? we have no idea.
6. Our car insurance company still says they cannot help us with this.
7. Am I totally on the hook for this? Their insurance company (Allstate) absolutely never returns my calls -- still. The only people I have been able to reach is the collection agency that Allstate has employed.
So: the driver who hit her has the advantage of an insurance company coming after us, and our own (USAA) is not helping because she was not driving. So do I have to just accept that it's an insurance company muscle against a 21 year old college student as an individual?
I know YANourL but what should be our next step? I am afraid if I contact a lawyer I will wind up paying even more than this $4000 bill, but I am appalled that we are being told to cough up this money without even an explanation of what it is supposedly for.
My college student daughter is an adult, but has no independent financial resources so I am the one who will be paying for this. I also am dealing with the legal and insurance paperwork and phone calls for them. Because this is anonymous I will say at the outset:
1. Please do not tell me to let them handle the legal or paperwork. This is absolutely not helpful advice in this case. **I do not need parenting advice here.**
2. Please do not tell me to let my daughter be responsible financially with a payment plan. I do not need parenting advice.
That said: YANML, YANherL.
What happened:
1. Daughter was on a Lyme scooter. There was a collision. A police report was made at the scene. Daughter indicated to the police that the Lyme brakes failed and she didn't stop at a stop sign.
2. We called our car insurance company. They indicated they could not assist because she was not driving a car.
3. The driver's insurance company sent my daughter several letters telling her to call them immediately. She (and I) called them over a dozen times and got voice mail. They never returned our call.
4. At some point, my daughter did talk to their insurance company. I told my daughter to tell them only "They hit me with their car," but evidently she said "My Lyme brakes failed" and they determined that she was at fault. We had not tried to sue Lyme and I do not think there was any way to legally determine at this point if their brakes failed. (I believe her, but I mean legally.)
5. Six months later, she receives a credit collection services bill for over $4,000. We do not know what this is supposed to be covering. Did their car get scratched? we have no idea.
6. Our car insurance company still says they cannot help us with this.
7. Am I totally on the hook for this? Their insurance company (Allstate) absolutely never returns my calls -- still. The only people I have been able to reach is the collection agency that Allstate has employed.
So: the driver who hit her has the advantage of an insurance company coming after us, and our own (USAA) is not helping because she was not driving. So do I have to just accept that it's an insurance company muscle against a 21 year old college student as an individual?
I know YANourL but what should be our next step? I am afraid if I contact a lawyer I will wind up paying even more than this $4000 bill, but I am appalled that we are being told to cough up this money without even an explanation of what it is supposedly for.
Did you go through Lime at the time of the accident? On their website, they mention contacting them in the event of an accident. A google search also shows that Lime does carry their own insurance. Not sure what your daughter would be entitled to, but there may be a way to get some helps without having to sue them.
posted by jraz at 10:38 AM on May 11, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by jraz at 10:38 AM on May 11, 2022 [25 favorites]
CALL ALL THE LAWYERS. Or call them til you find one. The insurance company is pushing her around. You absolutely need a lawyer. A consultation should be free. Was she hurt at all? Gather up any and all documentation about the scooter share, medical bills, records of conversations with the insurance company.
Your daughter's college likely has a free student legal services office. You or she could start there. Call them right away! Next step!
(I know this is stressful but I don't think anyone would tell you to let her deal with these consequences without your help or support, emotional and financial! This is a big deal, and you all are getting pushed around, and the fact that you are concerned we are going to advise you to hang her out to dry suggests that maybe you aren't realizing just how terrible this insurance company is being and this is absolutely not in any way something you should be managing without legal help!)
posted by bluedaisy at 10:38 AM on May 11, 2022 [32 favorites]
Your daughter's college likely has a free student legal services office. You or she could start there. Call them right away! Next step!
(I know this is stressful but I don't think anyone would tell you to let her deal with these consequences without your help or support, emotional and financial! This is a big deal, and you all are getting pushed around, and the fact that you are concerned we are going to advise you to hang her out to dry suggests that maybe you aren't realizing just how terrible this insurance company is being and this is absolutely not in any way something you should be managing without legal help!)
posted by bluedaisy at 10:38 AM on May 11, 2022 [32 favorites]
Given that this has passed on to a collection agency, which truly don't care about anything but collecting money, I'd focus all of your efforts on Lyme via their website/insurance.
posted by coffeecat at 11:00 AM on May 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 11:00 AM on May 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
If you google Lime scooter accident YOURSTATE you might find law firms that have experience with this -- I see a number of blog posts from various states.
posted by jabes at 11:05 AM on May 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jabes at 11:05 AM on May 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Collection agencies are governed by the FDCPA. You are entitled to more information about the nature of the debt and there are restrictions on the ways in which the agency can contact you.
The scooter rental company should have provided liability insurance. Did she accept it or decline it? Your homeowners insurance should have provided liability coverage too. Recheck to see if your student family member was covered.
posted by JimN2TAW at 11:14 AM on May 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
The scooter rental company should have provided liability insurance. Did she accept it or decline it? Your homeowners insurance should have provided liability coverage too. Recheck to see if your student family member was covered.
posted by JimN2TAW at 11:14 AM on May 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
I don't see above that there was ever a judgement against you in court? Someone else's insurance can't just bill you if they feel like it and then send that bill to collections. I mean, they can DO it, but that doesn't automatically mean that you legitimately owe that.
Many lawyers will give a free consultation where you can describe what happened as you did in this post.
posted by Horkus at 11:31 AM on May 11, 2022 [17 favorites]
Many lawyers will give a free consultation where you can describe what happened as you did in this post.
posted by Horkus at 11:31 AM on May 11, 2022 [17 favorites]
I too think there's more to be done with Lyme here first, but with regards to collections in general, CreditBoards has in the past helped me tremendously to understand the correct mindset in dealing with them. It is very much not "dutifully send checks until they're satisfied," and reading through the stickied posts there regarding collections might be of great comfort even if, given the facts of your situation, it's not time to move on to those stages yet. You have more control here than you seem to be thinking.
posted by teremala at 11:51 AM on May 11, 2022
posted by teremala at 11:51 AM on May 11, 2022
Seconding the recommendation to learn your rights under FDCPA and your daughter's.
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:10 PM on May 11, 2022
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:10 PM on May 11, 2022
You can dispute the debt without going all the way to suing anyone and you do not have to stay in the dark about what the $4,000 bill is for, the collections company is required to tell you what it's for. What if I believe I do not owe the debt or I want more information about the debt?
Some of these things are time-sensitive, though, so if you're going to send them a letter disputing the bill, send it now! There are sample letters at the link above.
posted by mskyle at 12:24 PM on May 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Some of these things are time-sensitive, though, so if you're going to send them a letter disputing the bill, send it now! There are sample letters at the link above.
posted by mskyle at 12:24 PM on May 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yes, Horkus has it. A random insurance company, with which your daughter has no business relationship, cannot simply demand your daughter pay them a certain sum of money because they think she's responsible for an accident. That's something for the courts to decide, ultimately, or to be negotiated between her or her lawyer and the insurance company.
Have you contacted Lime? If you don't want to immediately talk to a lawyer, then that would be a good first step (though you may have to involve a lawyer in this discussion). Otherwise, finding out what the details of the supposed bill actually are as covered above would also be a good place to start.
posted by ssg at 5:10 PM on May 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
Have you contacted Lime? If you don't want to immediately talk to a lawyer, then that would be a good first step (though you may have to involve a lawyer in this discussion). Otherwise, finding out what the details of the supposed bill actually are as covered above would also be a good place to start.
posted by ssg at 5:10 PM on May 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
I am afraid if I contact a lawyer I will wind up paying
Yes, but you really need somebody to take a close look at this for you. Your question says "resulting in getting sued," but there was no suit, just a bill from a collection agency. You complain bitterly about your car insurance, but the accident had nothing to do with your car. You think Lime is immune because ... for some reason. You really need help with this.
So get a lawyer, for example from https://mefiwiki.com/wiki/Get_a_lawyer, or a legal-aid clinic or non-profit service, or someone at your local library who helps people with their paperwork, or something. You need help reading this stuff and calling the right people.
posted by JimN2TAW at 6:28 PM on May 11, 2022 [8 favorites]
Yes, but you really need somebody to take a close look at this for you. Your question says "resulting in getting sued," but there was no suit, just a bill from a collection agency. You complain bitterly about your car insurance, but the accident had nothing to do with your car. You think Lime is immune because ... for some reason. You really need help with this.
So get a lawyer, for example from https://mefiwiki.com/wiki/Get_a_lawyer, or a legal-aid clinic or non-profit service, or someone at your local library who helps people with their paperwork, or something. You need help reading this stuff and calling the right people.
posted by JimN2TAW at 6:28 PM on May 11, 2022 [8 favorites]
4. At some point, my daughter did talk to their insurance company. [...]Wait, hold up - there's something missing here. The car driver's insurance company (or mechanic, or whoever) can't just decide that you owe $4,000 and then bill for it. If they want you to pay, and you don't want to, they have to take you to court and win a judgment against you. You say the accident resulted in your daughter "getting sued," but although you have a pretty detailed list of events, none of those events are your daughter getting sued.
5. Six months later, she receives a credit collection services bill for over $4,000.
Honestly, given what you've written here I'm wondering whether or not this mysterious $4,000 bill is even related to the accident. You seem to think so, but why? Is that what the collection agency said when you talked to them?
I agree with everyone else who is saying that you need some legal guidance here. Someone is trying to take advantage of your ignorance.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:02 PM on May 11, 2022 [12 favorites]
I know you say you are worried about paying the lawyers more than the $4000 the insurance company claims you owe, but consider that - given the vagueness of this entire situation - what is the guarantee that $4000 is "all" your daughter will owe? If she pays it, can the driver come back and sue her for some other nonspecific damages because she has - by paying - admitted she is at fault? It seems like you need to at least consult a lawyer to make sure she is not opening herself up to some other liability here.
posted by Preserver at 8:37 PM on May 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Preserver at 8:37 PM on May 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
but has no independent financial resources so I am the one who will be paying for this
You have no legal obligation to pay this. You may feel you have some moral obligation, but legally, you personally don't need to pay anything. It can just sit as a debt your daughter owes for 7 years until it drops off her credit report and is gone.
As noted above, the collections agency needs to prove that she owes the debt. They are required by law to tell her (not you, they probably won't talk to you, but they might) what exactly she owes and why.
However, if it turns out there was a court judgement against her - some kind of court case she did not know about so could not turn up for - then that might be a much bigger issue.
Bottom line: You do need an attorney. I'm sorry but its true.
Virtually any attorney will meet with you for an hour or so free of charge to discuss the case. They'll hear your side, then tell you what they think they can do. They'll also generally tell you how much it will cost before you sign any kind of contract with them.
Ask around. I'm sure you have someone in your network who has worked with a personal injury or other "I had a car accident" attorney who did good work for them that they'll be delighted to recommend (or tell you to avoid).
Unfortunately, this is a situation where you need professional help to resolve the issues involved. The sooner you talk with that professional, the quicker you'll have a solution.
posted by anastasiav at 9:15 PM on May 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
You have no legal obligation to pay this. You may feel you have some moral obligation, but legally, you personally don't need to pay anything. It can just sit as a debt your daughter owes for 7 years until it drops off her credit report and is gone.
As noted above, the collections agency needs to prove that she owes the debt. They are required by law to tell her (not you, they probably won't talk to you, but they might) what exactly she owes and why.
However, if it turns out there was a court judgement against her - some kind of court case she did not know about so could not turn up for - then that might be a much bigger issue.
Bottom line: You do need an attorney. I'm sorry but its true.
Virtually any attorney will meet with you for an hour or so free of charge to discuss the case. They'll hear your side, then tell you what they think they can do. They'll also generally tell you how much it will cost before you sign any kind of contract with them.
Ask around. I'm sure you have someone in your network who has worked with a personal injury or other "I had a car accident" attorney who did good work for them that they'll be delighted to recommend (or tell you to avoid).
Unfortunately, this is a situation where you need professional help to resolve the issues involved. The sooner you talk with that professional, the quicker you'll have a solution.
posted by anastasiav at 9:15 PM on May 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have personal liability insurance on my homeowner's policy, and carried it on my renter's insurance when I was renting as well. That would be my next step if I were in your shoes: check to see if your kid is covered by any personal liability policy on any insurance your family carries, then give them a call.
I wanted to echo this. I wouldn’t even think to try to have my auto insurance cover this.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:51 PM on May 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wanted to echo this. I wouldn’t even think to try to have my auto insurance cover this.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:51 PM on May 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was in a very similar situation.
If they send the bill to collections, you can follow the FTC info to tell them to:
1. Provide proof that you owe money (there won't be any proof b/c there was no contract/debt incurred). The collections agency is just being used to intimidate you.
2. Tell them to only contact you via mail, and to stop contacting you (they have to honor this by law).
If they send you scary letters from lawyers, you have 2 options...
1. Ignore them. They are going to either sue your for the money, or not.
2. Get a lawyer to write a letter to tell them to go away.
Never admit anything, don't even apologize. Just keep requesting they provide proof that you owe a debt or go away.
If they do actually sue you, then get a free consult from a lawyer to figure out the best course of action - either going to court to argue or paying or negotiating a settlement.
Or get a free consult now to see what they lawyer says...it could also be worth it to pay for an actual hour to get a stock letter to respond to all the incoming scary stuff and plot a course of action - a couple hundred dollars for peace of mind :)
posted by jpeacock at 3:51 PM on May 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
If they send the bill to collections, you can follow the FTC info to tell them to:
1. Provide proof that you owe money (there won't be any proof b/c there was no contract/debt incurred). The collections agency is just being used to intimidate you.
2. Tell them to only contact you via mail, and to stop contacting you (they have to honor this by law).
If they send you scary letters from lawyers, you have 2 options...
1. Ignore them. They are going to either sue your for the money, or not.
2. Get a lawyer to write a letter to tell them to go away.
Never admit anything, don't even apologize. Just keep requesting they provide proof that you owe a debt or go away.
If they do actually sue you, then get a free consult from a lawyer to figure out the best course of action - either going to court to argue or paying or negotiating a settlement.
Or get a free consult now to see what they lawyer says...it could also be worth it to pay for an actual hour to get a stock letter to respond to all the incoming scary stuff and plot a course of action - a couple hundred dollars for peace of mind :)
posted by jpeacock at 3:51 PM on May 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by phunniemee at 10:37 AM on May 11, 2022 [23 favorites]