My kid did something cruel to other kids and I am struggling with it
January 8, 2022 10:08 AM Subscribe
As the title says, my kid did something cruel to some other kids. We are dealing with it appropriately but I’m struggling with my own feelings about it. (More below)
My elementary-aged kid did something awful to several other kids at their school. I don’t want to get into the particulars other than it was online, involved a lot of foul and toxic language and name-calling. It is out of character for them and I do believe that they are honestly remorseful about their actions. We are taking steps to address the issue. We have received advice from a therapist who has experience in these things, are in communication with the other parents, have had several (ongoing) conversations about this with our child, and they are being appropriately disciplined (with advice from above mentioned therapist). I think we are doing everything we can to address the situation as parents who want their child to learn and grow from this experience and everything we can do to reduce the harm this caused to the other kids.
I’m having a lot of trouble dealing with my own feelings about this. I feel wreaked and really grappling with feeling responsible for their actions. I did not raise my child to be a bully and yet this is something that one would do. Even though it didn’t happen while they were in our home (they were sleeping over at another friend’s house) I am caught in a loop of wondering at what point I screwed up and how I failed in my job as a parent. I feel so much shame and humiliation.
The therapist we spoke to about all this, to whom I never expressed the feelings I’m having but clearly picked up on it, suggested that I should not define myself by the actions of my child. I am not them. They are not me. A friend I spoke to said the same thing. But I don’t know how to do that and part of me thinks I deserve to feel this shame and to feel like I am at fault. I know this is probably beyond the advice of the internet and I know this is an issue that is not just about this one event. I have a problem with perfectionism and I feel so uncomfortable with failure of any kind. I am planning on getting my own therapist but currently there is only time for family therapy and my child’s individual therapy (they also have high anxiety to which I attribute to myself).
Parents, I’m looking for advice. What has been helpful to you when you’ve been in a similar position with your child? How do you separate yourself from the actions of your child? How do you find the right balance between taking responsibility for your child as their parent but not feeling that their actions are a direct result of your parenting or personal failures?
My elementary-aged kid did something awful to several other kids at their school. I don’t want to get into the particulars other than it was online, involved a lot of foul and toxic language and name-calling. It is out of character for them and I do believe that they are honestly remorseful about their actions. We are taking steps to address the issue. We have received advice from a therapist who has experience in these things, are in communication with the other parents, have had several (ongoing) conversations about this with our child, and they are being appropriately disciplined (with advice from above mentioned therapist). I think we are doing everything we can to address the situation as parents who want their child to learn and grow from this experience and everything we can do to reduce the harm this caused to the other kids.
I’m having a lot of trouble dealing with my own feelings about this. I feel wreaked and really grappling with feeling responsible for their actions. I did not raise my child to be a bully and yet this is something that one would do. Even though it didn’t happen while they were in our home (they were sleeping over at another friend’s house) I am caught in a loop of wondering at what point I screwed up and how I failed in my job as a parent. I feel so much shame and humiliation.
The therapist we spoke to about all this, to whom I never expressed the feelings I’m having but clearly picked up on it, suggested that I should not define myself by the actions of my child. I am not them. They are not me. A friend I spoke to said the same thing. But I don’t know how to do that and part of me thinks I deserve to feel this shame and to feel like I am at fault. I know this is probably beyond the advice of the internet and I know this is an issue that is not just about this one event. I have a problem with perfectionism and I feel so uncomfortable with failure of any kind. I am planning on getting my own therapist but currently there is only time for family therapy and my child’s individual therapy (they also have high anxiety to which I attribute to myself).
Parents, I’m looking for advice. What has been helpful to you when you’ve been in a similar position with your child? How do you separate yourself from the actions of your child? How do you find the right balance between taking responsibility for your child as their parent but not feeling that their actions are a direct result of your parenting or personal failures?
I'm curious - were you bullied at all yourself? If you were, perhaps what is driving your own feelings is a bit of unresolved trauma from having been bullied yourself ("Oh God my kid is suddenly just like Tina Forenbach who smeared peas in my hair in first grade").
If not - I think definitely getting your own therapist is wise. One single incident of cruelty does not a bully make - and I am saying this as an adult who WAS once bullied. The kids who maybe joined in with the teasing once didn't even register with me, especially if they were nice to me the rest of the time. They didn't even have to apologize, they just had to be nice the rest of the time. It was the kids who were CONSISTENTLY cruel to me that really had the impact on me.
This sounds like your kid tried something once because "the cool kids" did it, they saw how it made the kid they were picking on feel bad, and they felt guilty themselves - and they also now feel guilty that you're disappointed in them.
I am going to repeat that becuase I particularly feel like you need to hear it - I am a person who was bullied as a child, and I STILL wouldn't even BEGIN to think of your child as a bully.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on January 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
If not - I think definitely getting your own therapist is wise. One single incident of cruelty does not a bully make - and I am saying this as an adult who WAS once bullied. The kids who maybe joined in with the teasing once didn't even register with me, especially if they were nice to me the rest of the time. They didn't even have to apologize, they just had to be nice the rest of the time. It was the kids who were CONSISTENTLY cruel to me that really had the impact on me.
This sounds like your kid tried something once because "the cool kids" did it, they saw how it made the kid they were picking on feel bad, and they felt guilty themselves - and they also now feel guilty that you're disappointed in them.
I am going to repeat that becuase I particularly feel like you need to hear it - I am a person who was bullied as a child, and I STILL wouldn't even BEGIN to think of your child as a bully.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on January 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
I can say that if I was in your position, the level of shame and concern that I was a terrible parent would be very high. I would be very distraught at the thought of what the parents of the victims thought of my parenting skills since if this happened to my child, that would be my first thought
The way I would work myself out of this would be a lot of what you have already done - reach out to the other parents, get a therapist involved, etc. But, I would also take a long hard look at WHERE this behavior came from. Was your child being bullied by these other children? Are they taking in media that is glorifying this type of behavior? It doesn't happen in a vacuum and you have the tools and to figure it out. By doing that, by getting to the root of the problem and getting your child the help that they need (whatever form that takes), you can really begin to work on your own self-narrative here.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 10:35 AM on January 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
The way I would work myself out of this would be a lot of what you have already done - reach out to the other parents, get a therapist involved, etc. But, I would also take a long hard look at WHERE this behavior came from. Was your child being bullied by these other children? Are they taking in media that is glorifying this type of behavior? It doesn't happen in a vacuum and you have the tools and to figure it out. By doing that, by getting to the root of the problem and getting your child the help that they need (whatever form that takes), you can really begin to work on your own self-narrative here.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 10:35 AM on January 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses but I want to clarify one thing so this doesn’t get off track from my question. I do not think my child is a monster. Please assume that when I wrote that we had talked to the family therapist about how to approach the situation they gave us the necessary tools on how to prioritize our child’s well-being. So you can assume that my private emotions about this are just that, private, and as far as my child is aware I love them (I do), they’re a good person (they are), and that good people can make bad choices (it’s true). Please believe me when I say my kid is covered. This isn’t about how I feel about my kid. It’s about how I feel about me
posted by teamnap at 10:48 AM on January 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by teamnap at 10:48 AM on January 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, if it helps my son stole when he was younger, a couple of times , and lied really well, and I felt sooooo weird about it that I (non-believer) was like, spinning that I had to take him to a church immediately. (Reader, I did not.) I think one thing to recognize is that it’s okay for you to have feeling too and they will pass. You can help them pass sooner.
So first steps - you are parenting in a pandemic so I hate to ask but how’s your sleep, eating, exercise, hobbies? Have you had a few hours to read a good book?
Second, really, your child is increasingly going to make their own choices and you are so on top of that fact, it’s great.
Third, even those the author is not without future problematic writings, I *highly* recommend Kids Are Worth It! For this situation. (Don’t read her bully book at this time.) it outlines really, really well what the parent’s responsibilities are, and that is NOT to take responsibility for what your child *did.* Its to help your child understand what happens next. Again, it sounds like you are on top of it, but the book has a lot of stories that will frame this for you.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:08 AM on January 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
So first steps - you are parenting in a pandemic so I hate to ask but how’s your sleep, eating, exercise, hobbies? Have you had a few hours to read a good book?
Second, really, your child is increasingly going to make their own choices and you are so on top of that fact, it’s great.
Third, even those the author is not without future problematic writings, I *highly* recommend Kids Are Worth It! For this situation. (Don’t read her bully book at this time.) it outlines really, really well what the parent’s responsibilities are, and that is NOT to take responsibility for what your child *did.* Its to help your child understand what happens next. Again, it sounds like you are on top of it, but the book has a lot of stories that will frame this for you.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:08 AM on January 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
You are not a bad parent. The fact you care so much that this happened and are working to make sure this doesn't happen again shows this. You are not a bad person, You cannot predict everything your child is going to do, they are their own person exploring the world (yes even at this age) and are going to do things that you will never see coming and that's OK. It's how you react that reflects how you are as a parent/person and what you should be judging yourself on. As this is what will shape your kids going forwards and to this outsider it seems you are doing all the right things and you need to give yourself credit for that.
I see that you are taking the advice of a child therapist, but maybe give yourself the same love and go see an adult or family therapist alone to talk about how you are feeling. It would most likely only take a visit or 2 for them to give you some tools to help.
posted by wwax at 11:22 AM on January 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
I see that you are taking the advice of a child therapist, but maybe give yourself the same love and go see an adult or family therapist alone to talk about how you are feeling. It would most likely only take a visit or 2 for them to give you some tools to help.
posted by wwax at 11:22 AM on January 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
But I don’t know how to do that and part of me thinks I deserve to feel this shame and to feel like I am at fault.
If this were me, I might be hanging on to the guilt as a way of doing something about the problem.
It sounds like you have done all that's humanely possible about the immediate situation. But it also sounds like it's somehow not enough. Like you feel that if you only did more, or the right thing, the situation and all its cognitive dissonance of "how could my kid ever do this" would resolve itself. So you feel like you can't step back and trust things to work out, you need to do something and spinning wheels and gnawing away at the guilt at least feels like something.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:24 AM on January 8, 2022 [14 favorites]
If this were me, I might be hanging on to the guilt as a way of doing something about the problem.
It sounds like you have done all that's humanely possible about the immediate situation. But it also sounds like it's somehow not enough. Like you feel that if you only did more, or the right thing, the situation and all its cognitive dissonance of "how could my kid ever do this" would resolve itself. So you feel like you can't step back and trust things to work out, you need to do something and spinning wheels and gnawing away at the guilt at least feels like something.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:24 AM on January 8, 2022 [14 favorites]
I mean, kids aren't raised in a vacuum. Your kid is growing up in unprecedented times when mental health issues among children are at record highs. That's not to say that your kid is mentally ill, but he very well may have picked up on some behaviors from kids around him that drove him to do something out of character. Kids struggle to belong in the midst of their ever-evolving brain chemistry and sometimes it can make them behave in ways that are confounding. If he was at a friend's house when it happened it very well may have been a result of peer pressure and the kind of uninhibited fatigue that only occurs at late-night sleepovers. This is normal and not the result of any failing on your part at all.
They say it takes a village for a reason. We live in this ruggedly individualistic culture where raising kids is seen as solely the responsibility of the parents and any moral failing of the child is directly their parents fault and thus represents their parents' own moral failing. You are not doing this alone. There are influences on your child that are beyond your control. All you can do is try and mitigate the damage and steer your child in the right direction, which you are and you will.
Give yourself some credit by acknowledging that which is beyond your control.
My mother, a generally kind, peaceful person, loves to tell the story about when she, as a kid, decided that she ought to punch someone in the face once, hard. So she went up to her (similarly kind, peaceful) cousin out of the blue and socked him square in the nose, making him bleed and leaving the adults in her life utterly confounded. She said at the time she had no idea why she did and still doesn't, besides a strange curiosity that got the best of her underdeveloped brain. She turned out fine and never did anything like it again. Kids are weird as hell. You're dealing with it and that's all that matters. I really think you're going to be ok.
posted by Amy93 at 11:40 AM on January 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
They say it takes a village for a reason. We live in this ruggedly individualistic culture where raising kids is seen as solely the responsibility of the parents and any moral failing of the child is directly their parents fault and thus represents their parents' own moral failing. You are not doing this alone. There are influences on your child that are beyond your control. All you can do is try and mitigate the damage and steer your child in the right direction, which you are and you will.
Give yourself some credit by acknowledging that which is beyond your control.
My mother, a generally kind, peaceful person, loves to tell the story about when she, as a kid, decided that she ought to punch someone in the face once, hard. So she went up to her (similarly kind, peaceful) cousin out of the blue and socked him square in the nose, making him bleed and leaving the adults in her life utterly confounded. She said at the time she had no idea why she did and still doesn't, besides a strange curiosity that got the best of her underdeveloped brain. She turned out fine and never did anything like it again. Kids are weird as hell. You're dealing with it and that's all that matters. I really think you're going to be ok.
posted by Amy93 at 11:40 AM on January 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
I did not raise my child to be a bully
Of course you didn't! The reason this is so hard for you is because you care so much.
Nobody gets full say in who or how their children are at any given moment (and that's a net good, even if it is sometimes horrifying). They are running their own unique copy of the Operating System we all have, and most people have to run ~25 years of updates to even get the full versions of Empathy or Impulse Control (and that one has a ton of in-app purchases before it's even stable). Your kid is only barely getting a handle on the fact that other people are real (and the internet certainly makes those lessons even harder), and is nowhere near done on that project, but it's really startling when you see that in such an undeniable situation. It feels like failure, but I promise it is necessary progress.
These really really hard really important really high-stakes lessons? Cannot be learned by instruction alone. Cannot be learned by parental modeling alone, not even if you do it exquisitely. Four hundred episodes of Mister Rogers might create better context a kid can relate to and call upon in the moment of decision, but even that is no guarantee. Most of the time, they're going to have to learn these lessons the hard way.
It IS horrifying to confront the fact that children are - developmentally appropriately! - selfish. Lacking in empathy. Not super self-aware. Not great at predicting consequences of social behavior because most of their resources are still oriented to, like, primal survival stuff. This is all by design! And in a toddler that's a fairly manageable set of fears, aversions, independence tests, feeding frustrations, plus they're super portable and we're bigger than them so we don't really require their cooperation to control them on a macro level. A toddler that falls down a flight of stairs, there's one or more adults at full fault there. But at 8 or 15 or 21 when they are much bigger and have acquired many adult-like qualities, it's a shock to see the curtain pulled back to the completely normal developmentally-appropriate sorta shitheads that they are really supposed to be, and there may be a little bit of adult liability but for the most part it's just a thing that happened and the fallout is the only part you can do a little bit of something about.
You are in the process of teaching your child empathy, and you are doing a great job, I promise. But that is a very long course of study, and they are going to fail some of the exams, not because you are a bad instructor but because they HAVE to fail sometimes. You have to let some of the tests be too hard to pass the first time. Practical experience is necessary.
It is so fucking hard to allow your child to fail. It is so stressful to have your child fail outside your realm of control in a way that - if you could engineer this necessary lesson - you would have written it in some way that others didn't get hurt. That is because you have a full robust install of Empathy yourself, and that's great news for your kiddo but is going to make for some tough days for you.
Incidents that occur in the process of learning, but which are not habitual, are inevitable. Your kid is probably always going to be That Asshole to some other kid/parent, and by the time your kid graduates high school you're probably going to have a long list of Those Assholes yourself. Many of them will actually be pretty great humans by that point, you may even have evidence of it, but nobody gets out of this life 100% liked by everybody. It'll probably be okay. The kid(s) who got hurt by this will hopefully get good support and they too will have racked up some more course credits for Empathy.
I do think, for your future self, that you should come back to this thread in a week or so when your cringe has subsided, and copy-paste anything in the comments here that you find really helpful and supportive into a gdoc or Evernote or wherever you keep your life documentation. Because you're going to have these days, and somewhere in here should be at least 5-10 things that will help reduce the sting and let you bounce back without feeling like you've been gonged in the head. It's really about building a toolbox for yourself so that when you take these inevitable hits they don't disrupt your life or mental health or parenting strategies.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:51 AM on January 8, 2022 [21 favorites]
Of course you didn't! The reason this is so hard for you is because you care so much.
Nobody gets full say in who or how their children are at any given moment (and that's a net good, even if it is sometimes horrifying). They are running their own unique copy of the Operating System we all have, and most people have to run ~25 years of updates to even get the full versions of Empathy or Impulse Control (and that one has a ton of in-app purchases before it's even stable). Your kid is only barely getting a handle on the fact that other people are real (and the internet certainly makes those lessons even harder), and is nowhere near done on that project, but it's really startling when you see that in such an undeniable situation. It feels like failure, but I promise it is necessary progress.
These really really hard really important really high-stakes lessons? Cannot be learned by instruction alone. Cannot be learned by parental modeling alone, not even if you do it exquisitely. Four hundred episodes of Mister Rogers might create better context a kid can relate to and call upon in the moment of decision, but even that is no guarantee. Most of the time, they're going to have to learn these lessons the hard way.
It IS horrifying to confront the fact that children are - developmentally appropriately! - selfish. Lacking in empathy. Not super self-aware. Not great at predicting consequences of social behavior because most of their resources are still oriented to, like, primal survival stuff. This is all by design! And in a toddler that's a fairly manageable set of fears, aversions, independence tests, feeding frustrations, plus they're super portable and we're bigger than them so we don't really require their cooperation to control them on a macro level. A toddler that falls down a flight of stairs, there's one or more adults at full fault there. But at 8 or 15 or 21 when they are much bigger and have acquired many adult-like qualities, it's a shock to see the curtain pulled back to the completely normal developmentally-appropriate sorta shitheads that they are really supposed to be, and there may be a little bit of adult liability but for the most part it's just a thing that happened and the fallout is the only part you can do a little bit of something about.
You are in the process of teaching your child empathy, and you are doing a great job, I promise. But that is a very long course of study, and they are going to fail some of the exams, not because you are a bad instructor but because they HAVE to fail sometimes. You have to let some of the tests be too hard to pass the first time. Practical experience is necessary.
It is so fucking hard to allow your child to fail. It is so stressful to have your child fail outside your realm of control in a way that - if you could engineer this necessary lesson - you would have written it in some way that others didn't get hurt. That is because you have a full robust install of Empathy yourself, and that's great news for your kiddo but is going to make for some tough days for you.
Incidents that occur in the process of learning, but which are not habitual, are inevitable. Your kid is probably always going to be That Asshole to some other kid/parent, and by the time your kid graduates high school you're probably going to have a long list of Those Assholes yourself. Many of them will actually be pretty great humans by that point, you may even have evidence of it, but nobody gets out of this life 100% liked by everybody. It'll probably be okay. The kid(s) who got hurt by this will hopefully get good support and they too will have racked up some more course credits for Empathy.
I do think, for your future self, that you should come back to this thread in a week or so when your cringe has subsided, and copy-paste anything in the comments here that you find really helpful and supportive into a gdoc or Evernote or wherever you keep your life documentation. Because you're going to have these days, and somewhere in here should be at least 5-10 things that will help reduce the sting and let you bounce back without feeling like you've been gonged in the head. It's really about building a toolbox for yourself so that when you take these inevitable hits they don't disrupt your life or mental health or parenting strategies.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:51 AM on January 8, 2022 [21 favorites]
Kids do dumb and cruel things because empathy is not an inherent quality, but a skill, and the job of a parent is to prevent what they can, and correct when they have to.
So if you were teaching your kid something else, like how to bake a cake, and they got it wrong and burnt one, it would not mean you were a terrible teacher. Just that they needed correction and practice.
And you had to be cool and calm in the moment, fix things, etc., Which means you probably pushed down your own anger, fear, shame. But they are still there affecting you. Kids have a way of unintentionally hitting all our tender spots and triggering buried emotions. And maybe you had some of that happen too.
Therapy is good, especially if this keeps weighing you down. But in the meantime maybe make some time to journal or otherwise process what you're feeling and why.
posted by emjaybee at 12:19 PM on January 8, 2022 [12 favorites]
So if you were teaching your kid something else, like how to bake a cake, and they got it wrong and burnt one, it would not mean you were a terrible teacher. Just that they needed correction and practice.
And you had to be cool and calm in the moment, fix things, etc., Which means you probably pushed down your own anger, fear, shame. But they are still there affecting you. Kids have a way of unintentionally hitting all our tender spots and triggering buried emotions. And maybe you had some of that happen too.
Therapy is good, especially if this keeps weighing you down. But in the meantime maybe make some time to journal or otherwise process what you're feeling and why.
posted by emjaybee at 12:19 PM on January 8, 2022 [12 favorites]
Everyone has to grow as a person at some point in their life.
If they're lucky, they learn how to do it as a kid, the same way your son did — they fuck up, someone expects better of them, and they grow into those expectations. And once they've done it a few times, they can keep using that skill throughout their life.
If they're unlucky, they're all alone the first time it comes up, without anyone's faith and better expectations to support them. If they're really unlucky, it doesn't happen until they're an adult, because then sometimes the stakes are very high. That's the sort of situation that can lead to serious moral failures.
Your son is lucky. He's learning how to grow as a person now, when he has support.
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:50 PM on January 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
If they're lucky, they learn how to do it as a kid, the same way your son did — they fuck up, someone expects better of them, and they grow into those expectations. And once they've done it a few times, they can keep using that skill throughout their life.
If they're unlucky, they're all alone the first time it comes up, without anyone's faith and better expectations to support them. If they're really unlucky, it doesn't happen until they're an adult, because then sometimes the stakes are very high. That's the sort of situation that can lead to serious moral failures.
Your son is lucky. He's learning how to grow as a person now, when he has support.
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:50 PM on January 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have a toddler so have not dealt with an issue like this yet, but my kid has been very slow with eating solids. I’ve done a lot of self blame around this, have felt like I’ve failed him and felt like a failure in general. I’m in therapy, and that helps. I’ve also found that working on my self compassion is really helpful. I’ve been listening to the audiobook of Tara Brach’s Radical Compassion, and it describes a practice called RAIN that I’ve been able to use when things are feeling hard to help me be gentle with myself. Her other book, Radical Acceptance, could be a good one to look at too. Meditation — specifically compassion/loving-kindness/metta meditation — is also great. Even just 5 minutes a day can make a big difference.
posted by imalaowai at 12:59 PM on January 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by imalaowai at 12:59 PM on January 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Brené Brown has done a lot of work on shame, so you could look her up - google her name and the word shame and you’ll find a TED talk and articles and books - there might be something in there that your brain will find relieving and reassuring.
posted by penguin pie at 1:47 PM on January 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by penguin pie at 1:47 PM on January 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
You've got lots of good advice above, but in case your own words have more impact:
I love them (I do), they’re a good person (they are), and... good people can make bad choices (it’s true).
Read the above as necessary.
posted by kate4914 at 2:14 PM on January 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I love them (I do), they’re a good person (they are), and... good people can make bad choices (it’s true).
Read the above as necessary.
posted by kate4914 at 2:14 PM on January 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Don't you remember being "bad" as a kid? I sure do. In one notable, to-this-day-horrifying instance, we--like three neighborhood kids--ganged up on another kid whom nobody liked because ? and smeared mud all over her parents' car. We ran off to our respective houses when we saw the curtains move and knew we'd been observed. My parents did what you're likely doing. Reasonable punishment and trying to figure out wtf led us to do this hideous thing, likely with no satisfying answer forthcoming from me; I don't remember that part. I don't remember the punishment, either. Oh, wait, I remember part of it! We all trooped back and held a garden hose on the car for a few seconds in a vain attempt by our parents to get the culprits to make restitution. (Her father had already rinsed off the mud--and it must've been some high-clay-content, low-grit mud because I know that if my parents had had to pay for a paint job, I would definitely have been paying them back with my babysitting money and Taco Viva pay ten years later.) And we had to say sorry to the kid. I remember that. She came to the door in her little pink bathrobe and matching slippers to endure our apologies.
Like your child, I was not naturally a bully and rather mostly tried to be kind, as did my friends. We just saw the mud, saw that it was in front of her house, remembered that we didn't like her, and got to it. Seconds after the deed was done, I began to feel bad. Then very bad. Then desperately bad. I said zero about any of this to my parents and I've never spoken to them about it since, but in sleepovers for years afterward whenever any fellow kid asked me "what's the worst thing you've ever done," I'd describe that terrible thing. I knew right away that this was a different order of "being bad." Very different from, whatever, neglecting my household chores or cheating on a spelling test.
Despite everything I believed about the kind of person I was and everything my parents tried to teach me, in the moments leading up to me doing the terrible thing I did not understand that doing the thing would be terrible. So basically, I learned not to be an asshole by trying out what it's like to be an asshole and discovering that it's fun for about two seconds but it begins to feel terrible almost immediately and never stops feeling terrible forever. Also learned the valuable general lesson of maybe don't immediately do the first asinine thing that comes into your head. My parents helped me a lot after the fact by being suitably horrified and confirming my growing conviction that what I'd just done was monstrous, but nothing they did before the event could have dissuaded me or any of us: we just saw that mud and that car and were like, "Our course of action is clear: get to smearing." Kids just don't have the neurology to behave sanely all of the time. Even the best of them, presented with an easy obvious opportunity*, will bust off with some horrifying antics.
*like social media, which is basically an enormous, unguarded pile of mud in easy proximity to millions of vulnerable targets.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:35 PM on January 8, 2022 [21 favorites]
Like your child, I was not naturally a bully and rather mostly tried to be kind, as did my friends. We just saw the mud, saw that it was in front of her house, remembered that we didn't like her, and got to it. Seconds after the deed was done, I began to feel bad. Then very bad. Then desperately bad. I said zero about any of this to my parents and I've never spoken to them about it since, but in sleepovers for years afterward whenever any fellow kid asked me "what's the worst thing you've ever done," I'd describe that terrible thing. I knew right away that this was a different order of "being bad." Very different from, whatever, neglecting my household chores or cheating on a spelling test.
Despite everything I believed about the kind of person I was and everything my parents tried to teach me, in the moments leading up to me doing the terrible thing I did not understand that doing the thing would be terrible. So basically, I learned not to be an asshole by trying out what it's like to be an asshole and discovering that it's fun for about two seconds but it begins to feel terrible almost immediately and never stops feeling terrible forever. Also learned the valuable general lesson of maybe don't immediately do the first asinine thing that comes into your head. My parents helped me a lot after the fact by being suitably horrified and confirming my growing conviction that what I'd just done was monstrous, but nothing they did before the event could have dissuaded me or any of us: we just saw that mud and that car and were like, "Our course of action is clear: get to smearing." Kids just don't have the neurology to behave sanely all of the time. Even the best of them, presented with an easy obvious opportunity*, will bust off with some horrifying antics.
*like social media, which is basically an enormous, unguarded pile of mud in easy proximity to millions of vulnerable targets.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:35 PM on January 8, 2022 [21 favorites]
I’m assuming this happened during a sleepover at the house of a friend of your son's, but that isn’t entirely clear.
If I were you my feelings about this would be very different if he was the instigator, a follower, or he and the friend egged each other on in a 'can you top this?' mode, because it doesn’t take a bully to do this kind of thing as part of a group or when you’re following a leader.
In fact, I think well behaved kids from good families can be more vulnerable to that because they have learned to trust the good people they live with and go along with what they say.
Which might mean that there’s nothing wrong with the way you raised your kid except perhaps not teaching them to evaluate what the people they’re with are doing and stand up against anything that’s wrong.
Which is an enormously difficult task, not least because they'll start questioning you as well, and probably sooner rather than later! And because the forces for conformity in a group even when, or perhaps especially when the group is doing something wrong are enormous.
That you are as devastated by this as you are may indicate personal boundaries within your family in general could use a little more definition.
posted by jamjam at 2:36 PM on January 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
If I were you my feelings about this would be very different if he was the instigator, a follower, or he and the friend egged each other on in a 'can you top this?' mode, because it doesn’t take a bully to do this kind of thing as part of a group or when you’re following a leader.
In fact, I think well behaved kids from good families can be more vulnerable to that because they have learned to trust the good people they live with and go along with what they say.
Which might mean that there’s nothing wrong with the way you raised your kid except perhaps not teaching them to evaluate what the people they’re with are doing and stand up against anything that’s wrong.
Which is an enormously difficult task, not least because they'll start questioning you as well, and probably sooner rather than later! And because the forces for conformity in a group even when, or perhaps especially when the group is doing something wrong are enormous.
That you are as devastated by this as you are may indicate personal boundaries within your family in general could use a little more definition.
posted by jamjam at 2:36 PM on January 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
I don't know if you are the kind of parent who holds "I am disappointed in you" in reserve for really dire situations, but if you are, or if you ever intend to deploy it: it works, if it is true and not spoken lightly, because it is true. but to be effective and not disproportionate or abusive, you have to be able to forgive a child for having disappointed you. the disappointment can't be the end of everything.
I mention that because the biggest gun, a full step beyond "I am disappointed in you", is "I am disappointed in myself." you know -- "I don't know where I went wrong as a mother, but I know it must be my fault and not yours, because if I'd raised you right you would never have been able to do such a thing." that whole line. what I understand you to be saying is that you feel that way, but are (wisely) determined not to say it. the reason it is taboo in all but the very direst circumstances is not because it is self blame, but because it burns a child up with shame if they have any conscience at all. it's the kind of thing you would say in an effort to see if your child was really beyond all hope of redemption, because it hurts worse to hear a parent say that then to have them just punish you.
and--you don't feel this way about your child. clearly. so, even though it's not for you to feel their shame for them, you clearly do not believe that that shame should be infinite; you don't believe what they did is unforgivable. and since that is true, your own vicarious shame cannot be infinite either. if you believe that they did a bad but forgivable thing, even if you are fully responsible, the worst your own parenting can be is bad but forgivable. (I am not judging it to be bad, I am just saying - even if. there's a logical limit.)
I will say, though, that I think the various responses attempting to displace responsibility from your child onto some imagined scapegoat of "the cool kids", or to make your child out to be the follower of some more wicked ringleader, are well-meaning but harmful. what if your child is a leader, not a follower? and even if not, what is one to say to the parents of those who are, when they ask your same question? pushing the guilt out an extra level doesn't solve it.
you are the parent of a child you love, who did something mean and is sorry, and who may have never done anything very bad before but who probably will do more moderately bad things in the future, because most people do.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:03 PM on January 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
I mention that because the biggest gun, a full step beyond "I am disappointed in you", is "I am disappointed in myself." you know -- "I don't know where I went wrong as a mother, but I know it must be my fault and not yours, because if I'd raised you right you would never have been able to do such a thing." that whole line. what I understand you to be saying is that you feel that way, but are (wisely) determined not to say it. the reason it is taboo in all but the very direst circumstances is not because it is self blame, but because it burns a child up with shame if they have any conscience at all. it's the kind of thing you would say in an effort to see if your child was really beyond all hope of redemption, because it hurts worse to hear a parent say that then to have them just punish you.
and--you don't feel this way about your child. clearly. so, even though it's not for you to feel their shame for them, you clearly do not believe that that shame should be infinite; you don't believe what they did is unforgivable. and since that is true, your own vicarious shame cannot be infinite either. if you believe that they did a bad but forgivable thing, even if you are fully responsible, the worst your own parenting can be is bad but forgivable. (I am not judging it to be bad, I am just saying - even if. there's a logical limit.)
I will say, though, that I think the various responses attempting to displace responsibility from your child onto some imagined scapegoat of "the cool kids", or to make your child out to be the follower of some more wicked ringleader, are well-meaning but harmful. what if your child is a leader, not a follower? and even if not, what is one to say to the parents of those who are, when they ask your same question? pushing the guilt out an extra level doesn't solve it.
you are the parent of a child you love, who did something mean and is sorry, and who may have never done anything very bad before but who probably will do more moderately bad things in the future, because most people do.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:03 PM on January 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
I went to therapy for almost exactly this issue (therapy just focused on me, the kid’s therapy is a different thing) and have found it very useful to talk through some family-of-origin stuff and how it affects the stuff I logically understand about parenting but have a hard time believing in my gut. In my case this definitely includes stuff like the ways their behavior reflects on me as a person.
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:09 PM on January 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:09 PM on January 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm not a parent (yet) but I am a teacher. So many kids do stuff like this and, when it's managed well, like you and other parents are doing, it becomes a learning experience that helps make kids better people as they grow older. Like others have said, the fact that you care is important. In my 15 years of teaching, I've seen more than my fair share of incidents like this. I never think "Omg what horrible parents!!" especially if the parent tries to make things right. In fact, I would say I've seen more examples of "oh my, I worry the parent is taking this way too harshly and as a bad reflection of themselves as a human and a parent."
COVID has been so hard on kids -- and parents, too. I hope that you can seek out more personal therapy eventually -- because you deserve it as well all do -- and that as time passes, you give yourself more grace.
posted by smorgasbord at 5:50 PM on January 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
COVID has been so hard on kids -- and parents, too. I hope that you can seek out more personal therapy eventually -- because you deserve it as well all do -- and that as time passes, you give yourself more grace.
posted by smorgasbord at 5:50 PM on January 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Sometimes life hits you upside the head and you can almost read the words "Life Lesson" on the side of the club. At those moments, the person can either take advantage of what happened or learn and grow or they can just continue as they are until life gives the another chance to learn.
It's clearer with your son. With therapy, with support from his parents, he will have a chance to learn things about himself, how to manage impulses, the consequences of actions that he didn't know the day before the sleep-over. I'm not saying that it is good that it happened but there is a chance for him to learn something that will really help him be a better person going forward.
It's harder to see for yourself. But I think the lessons is NOT that you are a bad parent and you failed your child. Read all those answers above. I think this is what life is trying to teach you: I have a problem with perfectionism and I feel so uncomfortable with failure of any kind. Are children are not puppets or sculptures to be controlled or molded. They are their own human beings. We can nurture them, influence them, help them grow. But they will grow in their own way and at their own myth - thinking that we are can over-ride that if we just try hard enough doesn't allow them to grow to be their best selves. Also, there are so many things that you can't protect them from - physical and emotional perils that are beyond our control.
Accepting the limits of what you can do, allowing both yourself and your child to be imperfect will be an incredible gift to both of you. This is the chance, the invitation to do this part of your own work.
posted by metahawk at 8:48 PM on January 8, 2022
It's clearer with your son. With therapy, with support from his parents, he will have a chance to learn things about himself, how to manage impulses, the consequences of actions that he didn't know the day before the sleep-over. I'm not saying that it is good that it happened but there is a chance for him to learn something that will really help him be a better person going forward.
It's harder to see for yourself. But I think the lessons is NOT that you are a bad parent and you failed your child. Read all those answers above. I think this is what life is trying to teach you: I have a problem with perfectionism and I feel so uncomfortable with failure of any kind. Are children are not puppets or sculptures to be controlled or molded. They are their own human beings. We can nurture them, influence them, help them grow. But they will grow in their own way and at their own myth - thinking that we are can over-ride that if we just try hard enough doesn't allow them to grow to be their best selves. Also, there are so many things that you can't protect them from - physical and emotional perils that are beyond our control.
Accepting the limits of what you can do, allowing both yourself and your child to be imperfect will be an incredible gift to both of you. This is the chance, the invitation to do this part of your own work.
posted by metahawk at 8:48 PM on January 8, 2022
You are asking how you can feel better. An answer is therapy. You have every right to make time—you can try teletherapy, you can cut one of the therapists to twice monthly and use the saved time to see your own therapist. You have every right to ask your community to help you get that time, delivering meals, doing kid pickups or childcare, cleaning your house, paying for you to get a sitter. You, as you, are worth it!
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 9:02 PM on January 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 9:02 PM on January 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Remember that even if you were the perfect parent who never did anything wrong, sometimes kids behave badly or even horribly, because their brains are not developed enough to continually, without fail, provide complete impulse control and weighing of consequences, theory of mind and thus empathy. It’s not a reflection on their character or upbringing. You can make the best of these lapses, as you’ve been doing, and help them in their development, but even perfect parents cannot magically develop their kids’ brains for them.
posted by meijusa at 3:13 AM on January 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by meijusa at 3:13 AM on January 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’d encourage you to look beyond the binary of good people and bad people. Because that can be a bit of a trap. How about instead if we are all just doing the best we can? Sometimes we make choices that hurt other people, and it’s worth thinking about why we did that. Did we want attention? Did we want to go along with the group? Did we want to push the limits just to see? Did we have some other unmet needs? Now, how do we repair the harm we caused, and what do we need to do not to let it happen again?
And I also really encourage you to think about what it means to think of other kids as good or bad kids. Is the neighbor kid bad, or is he hungry and lonely? Is the parent bad, or are they under resourced and working three jobs with limited time to supervise?
I’m not saying there’s no such thing as a bad person, but I’m not sure it’s at all helpful to frame the world this way for our kids. It seems like you lack some self-compassion. I think working on this in yourself, and differentiating from your kid, is going to serve you well as a parent and human in the world.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:46 PM on January 9, 2022
And I also really encourage you to think about what it means to think of other kids as good or bad kids. Is the neighbor kid bad, or is he hungry and lonely? Is the parent bad, or are they under resourced and working three jobs with limited time to supervise?
I’m not saying there’s no such thing as a bad person, but I’m not sure it’s at all helpful to frame the world this way for our kids. It seems like you lack some self-compassion. I think working on this in yourself, and differentiating from your kid, is going to serve you well as a parent and human in the world.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:46 PM on January 9, 2022
You're giving your child the grace and mercy and basic human kindness to not obsess over the mistake made. Handling the situation in the proper way, yes. That's good and right.
But you don't seem willing to extend that same grace and mercy and understanding to yourself. Your child is worth going the extra mile to protect and love, and so are you. You don't have to beat yourself up. You are not God, to be human is to be varying stages of hot mess wrapped in pressure that can't extinguish the love that shines out. Sometimes it takes conscious, deliberate effort to be kind to ourselves. We know what we want and it can be devestating when we perceive ourselves as failing. What are we when we can't control everything? To be human is scary.
But love is something we can always give. And I believe, in a healthy way, love for self is a hugely important foundation for treating everyone well. It's always ok to be kind to yourself, to not excoriate yourself. By the power invested in me by being a internet stranger who wants the best for you, I pronounce you not guilty. You don't have to beat yourself up over this.
You're worth the grace and mercy and basic human kindness to not obsess over the mistake made. You are.
posted by Jacen at 5:34 PM on January 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
But you don't seem willing to extend that same grace and mercy and understanding to yourself. Your child is worth going the extra mile to protect and love, and so are you. You don't have to beat yourself up. You are not God, to be human is to be varying stages of hot mess wrapped in pressure that can't extinguish the love that shines out. Sometimes it takes conscious, deliberate effort to be kind to ourselves. We know what we want and it can be devestating when we perceive ourselves as failing. What are we when we can't control everything? To be human is scary.
But love is something we can always give. And I believe, in a healthy way, love for self is a hugely important foundation for treating everyone well. It's always ok to be kind to yourself, to not excoriate yourself. By the power invested in me by being a internet stranger who wants the best for you, I pronounce you not guilty. You don't have to beat yourself up over this.
You're worth the grace and mercy and basic human kindness to not obsess over the mistake made. You are.
posted by Jacen at 5:34 PM on January 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
A note of affirmation and support: I studied the socialization of emotion in young kids in grad school, and the number one thing that predicts children’s healthy emotion regulation is the behavior of parents. Parents can teach their children to respond to major stresses in three major ways: 1. Get freaked out and remain vigilantly activated. 2. Don’t get freaked out, ever. 3. Get proportionally freaked out proportionally to the scariness/urgency of the stressor, but then find ways to dynamically regulate the stress response so that you gradually return to a baseline that is typical and healthy. It could be really powerful for your child to see you take this seriously, but process your own shame and confusion so that they see that as the appropriate response to doing hurtful things (when so many of us learn to get super-ashamed or angry and blaming… and stay that way, or to dismiss it as not that big a deal). From a kid whose parents didn’t do this, thank you for acknowledging those feelings and working with them, for your kid as well as yourself.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 11:07 PM on January 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 11:07 PM on January 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
The part of the human brain that manages judgment literally does not finish growing until our early twenties. Up until then kids try to follow the rules they’ve been taught, but they don’t necessarily have the visceral sense of right and wrong that you and I do. They know what they’re doing is wrong, but that fact is not accompanied by the shame and self-disgust you would expect an adult to feel.
So, like potty training, you do your best but there’s still going to be the ocasional incident until the brain matures enough to handle things itself.
It sounds like you’ve done an exemplary job by way of demonstrating good behavior and setting expectations. It’s likely all of that was bypassed by simple biology. I’d cut yourself some slack.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:23 AM on January 10, 2022
So, like potty training, you do your best but there’s still going to be the ocasional incident until the brain matures enough to handle things itself.
It sounds like you’ve done an exemplary job by way of demonstrating good behavior and setting expectations. It’s likely all of that was bypassed by simple biology. I’d cut yourself some slack.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:23 AM on January 10, 2022
The parents of the other child your kid hangs out with might be able to shed some light. There may be a budding narcissist in your childs midst or someone who also needs therapy. If your child didn't learn it from you they were possibly talked into it by another child. What ever the cause you should enforce in your child that this behavior makes people reviled and outcast. They should want to amend their actions. That is something they have to learn.
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 1:31 AM on January 11, 2022
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 1:31 AM on January 11, 2022
But I don’t know how to do that and part of me thinks I deserve to feel this shame and to feel like I am at fault.
Without trying to sound like a koan, focus on what is here and what comes next. The urge to dissect the past is understandable, that's clear. To what good, though, for your kid and for you? There's something constructive and liberating about allowing these things to flow under the bridge. That stream can surge dramatically sometimes, but bridges need to adjust to the water and be savvily reinforced for any future surges. Okay that's getting too koan-ish.
My middle kid was difficult. Lovely, yes, difficult, yes. There was so much fretting about whether we'd taken the right tack with her, so much looking over our shoulders. She's 21 now, and a few life changes that she let us in on along the way, starting around 16/17, in no small part helped us understand that she had her own dilemmas she was struggling with under the hood the entire time. Those dilemmas don't excuse her past behavior but they certainly help to explain it. It was like finding a hidden engine that had been running quietly all along, so I no longer had to wonder where all this misdirected, confused, intense power was coming from.
In the meantime, there is a lot to be said for continuing on your path as a parent guided by your values. You're the authority until they are (at least) 18, you know? Steer your ship in line with what you value. They need examples of confident, assertive, present humanity, and that might not be apparent to you for many years (or maybe never!) but even in our darkest moments I think we are all aware of this.
I feel like I'm rambling, but your question resonates. All mine are over 18 now, but the memories that I can recall most potently are the times when something like this left me feeling confronted, even unmoored, by my own uncertainty or lack of confidence in what it means to be a parent. I kept chugging along. I kept talking to the kids as the competent humans they were/are. And now, in their 20s, they'll occasionally do or say something to me--sometimes directly, often indirectly--that I take as a nod of understanding of all this. A tip of the hat in thanks for being there and being with them as they learned about their own accountability and opportunities as they came to recognize that every passing day took them out of childhood and into being accountable to themselves and their own self-direction.
Hang in there.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 1:50 AM on January 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Without trying to sound like a koan, focus on what is here and what comes next. The urge to dissect the past is understandable, that's clear. To what good, though, for your kid and for you? There's something constructive and liberating about allowing these things to flow under the bridge. That stream can surge dramatically sometimes, but bridges need to adjust to the water and be savvily reinforced for any future surges. Okay that's getting too koan-ish.
My middle kid was difficult. Lovely, yes, difficult, yes. There was so much fretting about whether we'd taken the right tack with her, so much looking over our shoulders. She's 21 now, and a few life changes that she let us in on along the way, starting around 16/17, in no small part helped us understand that she had her own dilemmas she was struggling with under the hood the entire time. Those dilemmas don't excuse her past behavior but they certainly help to explain it. It was like finding a hidden engine that had been running quietly all along, so I no longer had to wonder where all this misdirected, confused, intense power was coming from.
In the meantime, there is a lot to be said for continuing on your path as a parent guided by your values. You're the authority until they are (at least) 18, you know? Steer your ship in line with what you value. They need examples of confident, assertive, present humanity, and that might not be apparent to you for many years (or maybe never!) but even in our darkest moments I think we are all aware of this.
I feel like I'm rambling, but your question resonates. All mine are over 18 now, but the memories that I can recall most potently are the times when something like this left me feeling confronted, even unmoored, by my own uncertainty or lack of confidence in what it means to be a parent. I kept chugging along. I kept talking to the kids as the competent humans they were/are. And now, in their 20s, they'll occasionally do or say something to me--sometimes directly, often indirectly--that I take as a nod of understanding of all this. A tip of the hat in thanks for being there and being with them as they learned about their own accountability and opportunities as they came to recognize that every passing day took them out of childhood and into being accountable to themselves and their own self-direction.
Hang in there.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 1:50 AM on January 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
With my kid it was shoplifting, not bullying -- hopefully close enough to be of some relevance for you -- when he was around 11. I actually didn't take it very hard. I knew someone who'd done the same as a teen, and she didn't turn into a criminal. I knew shoplifting was somewhat common among teens, so this wasn't like aberrant behavior. And more than anything, I believed my kid was good, and was able to see this as the exception it was.
Probably it'd be more helpful if my wife were the one on MeFi. She took it very much like you have. Time helped, especially as each passing day saw no repeat of the behavior. (I mean, that we know of.) You might benefit from putting the behavior in perspective like that, though since this event is more recent, try giving him credit for all the days *before* it that he didn't do anything like this. Those days count too! See him for who he is -- a young guy testing boundaries and learning life skills -- instead of for what he did. I think that's how we'd all like to be seen.
As to your last two questions, I think part of the answer is using this as an opportunity to start seeing him as a person. You know lots of people, and I doubt a single one even somewhat frequently does what you say they should, if you even are the type to make suggestions along those lines. God I wish we got to control what everyone else did. But we don't, and that includes the people we made. He'll go to college where he wants and choose what he does for a living and date a real charlatan or strumpet or two, and he'll be a rare human if he regularly solicits and very seriously considers your advice. This is just an early shot across the bow -- I don't mean that glibly, but I do mean it; it's sort of the first rumblings that they won't do all the stuff we want them to do the rest of their lives, and sometimes that'll include the important stuff.
posted by troywestfield at 11:38 AM on January 13, 2022
Probably it'd be more helpful if my wife were the one on MeFi. She took it very much like you have. Time helped, especially as each passing day saw no repeat of the behavior. (I mean, that we know of.) You might benefit from putting the behavior in perspective like that, though since this event is more recent, try giving him credit for all the days *before* it that he didn't do anything like this. Those days count too! See him for who he is -- a young guy testing boundaries and learning life skills -- instead of for what he did. I think that's how we'd all like to be seen.
As to your last two questions, I think part of the answer is using this as an opportunity to start seeing him as a person. You know lots of people, and I doubt a single one even somewhat frequently does what you say they should, if you even are the type to make suggestions along those lines. God I wish we got to control what everyone else did. But we don't, and that includes the people we made. He'll go to college where he wants and choose what he does for a living and date a real charlatan or strumpet or two, and he'll be a rare human if he regularly solicits and very seriously considers your advice. This is just an early shot across the bow -- I don't mean that glibly, but I do mean it; it's sort of the first rumblings that they won't do all the stuff we want them to do the rest of their lives, and sometimes that'll include the important stuff.
posted by troywestfield at 11:38 AM on January 13, 2022
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Look, I got suspended from kindergarten three times for hitting other kids. I grew up to be a smart cool normal person who does not rob banks or commit murders. Please do not allow this to change how you see your child. If he appears to understand why what he did was wrong, you’re doing fine.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:12 AM on January 8, 2022 [58 favorites]