the skinny on fasting

June 24, 2018 12:06 PM

I would like to hear about your experiences with Intermittent Fasting and Fasting Mimicking Diets. I have some specific questions...

I have read the previous Asks on Intermittent Fasting but I have some questions I don't see there.
1. Have you done IF when also struggling with compulsive or emotional eating? If so, did it seem to make you eat more compulsively when you were in an eating window?

2. I am planning to fast each day til 1 pm except for a cup of coffee with milk (say, 120 calories) in the morning, but does this totally erase the fasting benefit? In other words, is the benefit really only because you're giving your body a total rest from all food processing, letting it really get into a different zone, in which case having milk in coffee would really negate the fasting effect? Or is it a matter of degree? Can you get most of the benefits even If you don't feel willing to give up coffee with milk in the morning? Did you do this?

3. Dr. Valter Longo: he is a respected researcher and expert on fasting and disease, so I am not sure what to make of his business, PROLON -- this is selling 5 days of packaged food for the fasting mimicking diet (FMD).
Why does he say the body doesn't "recognize" this food as food? Why couldn't he just say that you can benefit from eating a very low calorie plant based diet for 5 days and get a lot of fasting benefits? That the body is "not recognizing" his special mixture seems kind of marketing smoke and mirrors ... or is it true?
4. Any links to fasting and osteoporosis? I have early onset osteoporosis and have read that weight loss causes bone loss. But other studies seem to suggest that hormone changes in fasting help bone growth and help osteoporosis. Any links on this appreciated.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!

posted by velveeta underground to Health & Fitness (13 answers total)

1. a. Yes, I have done IF while also struggling with emotional eating.
1. b. No, oddly enough. Now, as always, YMMV. But I personally found that by waiting until 1 or 2pm to begin eating, I got "over the hump" of hunger pangs, and was able to look at my meals with some level of objectivity. My internal thought process would be along the lines of, "Well, now that I'm in my eating window, I should probably be thoughtful about what I eat to make sure that all those fasting hours weren't for naught." I'm not saying it was easy, but I felt like I was in a mental state that enabled me to make wiser, more nutritionally sound decisions about what I was going to eat. Also, I spent a lot of time thinking about mindful eating practices, eating slower and savoring my food, and focusing more on what I *should* eat (more apples, spinach, nuts, lean protein, whole grains) and less on what I *shouldn't* eat.

2. I don't know that it will, scientifically, erase the fasting benefit. But I do know that it isn't recommended (the milk/cream part, anyway - my understanding is you should take any coffee or tea just black). You may also find that caffeine on an empty stomach will intensify its effects in a way that is unpleasant and anxiety-inducing, making it more of a struggle to get through your morning fasting window. If you must have something, I would recommend a green or white tea (both of which still contain caffeine, but much less than what's in black tea) or a tisane ("herbal" tea). Find something that tastes pleasant to you without the need for milk, sugar, honey, etc. Also, you could try water with a squeeze of fresh lemon or lime juice.

3. Fasting is fasting. What he's selling may be legitimate, but when fasting has and can be done without special products to "mimick" the effect, it strikes me as a bit dubious. Beware of snake oil. That's just my personal hot take. I personally would not do it and have been successful with IF without anthing like that.

4. Boilerplate AskMe response (for good reason): If you already have early onset osteoporosis, you should absolutely 100% be talking with your doctor about this or any significant dietary changes you make.

Overall, I liked how IF got me out of a binge eating cycle. I went from waking up with mega food cravings to, over time, developing a better sense of what I should eat and how much; as well as when I was truly hungry vs just feeling voracious/emotional. The downside was that sometimes I would forget to eat, which might sound like a good thing, but isn't. I dealt with this by adding reminders to my phone and making sure I had healthy snacks nearby.
posted by nightrecordings at 12:33 PM on June 24, 2018 [3 favorites]

I don’t eat between 7 pm and 8 am. I’ve been doing this since August. Long says this should be called time-restricted eating, not intermittent fasting. He also says there can be health problems if you go more than 13 hours a day. I believe that the milk in your coffee undoes the benefit, but it sounds like you may be planning to go longer than recommended anyway.

I’m baffled by the idea that your body doesn’t recognize the food as food, but Longo doesn’t personally make money from Prolon. It all goes back into research. I have also heard him say that he wanted to enable people to follow his protocol for free, but someone in Italy died, and he realized he needed some control for it to be safe. I’ve been turned down for Prolon because I’m on maintenance chemotherapy. They’re working on something for cancer patients, but it’s still in clinical trials. So they won’t take my money. Basically, I don’t think they’re doing this for the money.

I’d really recommend listening to interviews with Longo. There are several on YouTube. Also with Satchin Panda. And read Longo’s book, which is excellent. Panda has a book too. I’ve purchased it, but I haven’t read it yet.

Also, I had no increase in eating at other times, but I had already mostly eliminated compulsive eating by not eating trigger foods at all. This is not a magic bullet for weight loss though. I lost five pounds pretty quickly, but nothing after that. I do enjoy not thinking about food in the evenings. It feels like I have more free time.
posted by FencingGal at 12:35 PM on June 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

To your question asking if you feel inclined to overdo it when you’re in your eating window- no, I don’t. If it’s a longer fast you break your sugar addiction and if you’re quite hungry you’ll eat anything- and be really grateful- like carrots and soup. As opposed to doing lots of snacks and grazing.
posted by catspajammies at 12:36 PM on June 24, 2018

I just did IF for a couple of months, 16/8 style. I found myself eating either too much, waiting impatiently for the exact minute I could start eating again, but then forget to eat for the rest of the day until the very end, etc. It wasn’t good for me and felt like my whole relationship to eating was thrown off, and not in a healthy-seeming way.

The hours/not eating for 16 hours wasn’t terribly hard though, so try it if you get confirmation it won’t be harmful with your osteoporosis? I then tried to do 17/7 and found it a real challenge, before I realized I was actually gaining weight and feeling completely unstable about the whole thing.

Now I’m just counting calories and staying relatively low-carb, which feels so much more sustainable and relieving in comparison. (I was trying to lose 5-15 lbs and also felt like I was just in the habit of eating too much and poorly and needed to re-calibrate)
posted by jeweled accumulation at 12:55 PM on June 24, 2018

when I did 16/8 ("window" from 11am to 7p) I just got too hungry. I'd be ravenous at 11 and eat too much. I don't consider myself a compulsive eater but yeah I definitely felt more compelled to eat when the window opened when I was strict 16/8. OTOH my husband does strict 16/8 and it works great for him.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:23 PM on June 24, 2018

If so, did it seem to make you eat more compulsively when you were in an eating window?

Yep. I did 16/8, and all that happened is that I was so ravenous when I could finally eat that I ate more than I normally would have, and gave myself permission to eat empty calories because, hey, I had just fasted. I'm finding it far more helpful to try to eat mindfully, which for me means limiting myself to eating only when I'm actually hungry and being very aware of when I've had enough.
posted by holborne at 2:03 PM on June 24, 2018

I used to be more of an emotional eater. As I've aged I have binges are very infrequent. Rarely do I eat food after food. I do tend to eat out of habit and cravings, not necessarily emotion. These days my weight is not optimal because I like to eat ice cream and big sub sandwiches and chips and such. Not bingeing, just more calories than I need.

My eating window is 3pm-7pm. I have a small meal or snack at 3pm -- maybe an egg or two and a whole avocado or some nuts. Whatever is around. Around 6pm I eat a generous dinner (protein, vegetable, and starch) and then I'm done. I usually don't eat dessert.

I drink coffee with half and half. I only use of splash of half and half. It might be good for you to get full fat cream -- like heavy cream or heavy whipping cream to use in your coffee. I have read that if it's 50 calories or under and a fat source you can consider yourself fasting.

IF can help with binging because you only have so much time to eat and it's hard to cram down a lot of food, at least for me, because your stomach can only hold so much. Foods that you think you might want -- like junk -- are not appealing because I want to get in some good nutrients to hold me over for the next day. For me that's animal protein, fresh veg cooked in olive oil, roasted potatoes cooked in olive oil, etc.

I would never buy a diet product. Especially one that told me it was mimicking fasting. Sounds bogus. Products not necessary and waste of money.

I don't know anything about osteoporosis and IF. Good luck.
posted by loveandhappiness at 3:32 PM on June 24, 2018

I would never buy a diet product. Especially one that told me it was mimicking fasting. Sounds bogus.

FYI, for people reading this who aren’t familiar with Valter Longo’s work, Prolon is not a “diet product’ in any normal sense of the word and it certainly isn’t bogus. Longo is a USC research scientist who has done a great deal of research on longevity and on fasting. Prolon has been extensively studied in clinical trials at major research universities. This is published, peer-reviewed research. And it’s not primarily about weight loss. Anyone who is interested can check out the research papers through PubMed.
posted by FencingGal at 4:18 PM on June 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

I just watched this video yesterday about this very thing... so, NO, the coffee with cream will not break your fast - BUT ONLY in relation to whether you are a doing this as a part of either preventing an insulin response (by increased blood sugar), or your maintaining a ketotic state (lowering your ketone level, and possibly losing the benefits of being in ketosis) - these two things are everything to do with maintaining a ketogenic diet, and intermittent fasting, which are all the rage these days. There were a few comments about how, technically, ingesting anything is actually breaking a fast - but this doctor was specifically meaning breaking a ketogenic diet type fast, and how those are the only markers to determine whether this is so.

Insulin is the body's response to ingesting sugar/carbohydrate - and it is what stores excess sugar/calories as fat, so that is why there is such a focus on reducing sugar/carbohydrate in this way of eating. The intermittent fasting part simply allows the body more time to use up all excess glucose (sugar/carbs) in the body before you then add more.

The video is made by a doctor, who used a hypothesis and experiment approach to determine that: black coffee, coffee with cream, coffee with MCT oil, and coffee with butter, all DO NOT either raise blood sugar levels, nor reduce ketones.
posted by itsflyable at 10:07 PM on June 24, 2018

I do IF every day, and always recommend it to my coaching clients if they should ask.
When it comes to IF, I recommend Dr. Jason Fung. His books "The Obesity Code", "The Complete Guide to Fasting", and his numerous videos on YouTube are the real deal.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 4:03 AM on June 25, 2018 [4 favorites]

I've been doing quasi-IF since early December. I say quasi because I do have coffee, with half and half, every morning -- several cups of coffee with half and half. Other than that, I don't eat between 8pm and noon. And I dropped about 15 pounds between December and March. I also am someone with a long history of disordered and compulsive eating, and IF has really helped me. I tend to eat better, and more reasonable amounts -- but some days I don't, like this weekend when I had like six ice cream cones. But whereas before that would have sent me into a tailspin of many weeks of terrible compulsive eating, having that 8pm brake helps me just keep on going and get back to normal eating.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:10 AM on June 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

One surprise benefit I want to add. Not eating after 7 pm has pretty much cured my chronic insomnia.
posted by FencingGal at 7:16 AM on June 25, 2018

There is a diet called the Shangri-La Diet that was created by a psychologist at UC Berkeley. I've been doing this diet for the past 11 years. Briefly, the diet involves consuming a relatively small amount of flavorless calories during the day, followed by a normal dinner. The flavorless calories act to suppress your appetite, and also reset your set-point to a lower level. A chapter-length summary of the diet is available here. A book-length treatment is here.

I've successfully lost weight on this diet, though I have to admit that some of the weight has come creeping back (slowly) over the years. Still, I'm down significantly from my pre-diet weight.

I'd be happy to discuss my experience directly over MeFi Mail.
posted by alex1965 at 10:58 AM on June 25, 2018