Is there such a thing as socially acceptable drinking and driving?

June 10, 2018 2:36 PM

As someone inexperienced in alcohol-related matters, I'm trying to figure out if I spoke too soon and proposed something that I shouldn't have.

Aside from maybe a beer or two when I was underage, I didn't start drinking on any sort of regular basis until I was well into adulthood. There's no story there. It just never appealed to me, and I never started. Even now, I really only have a single drink once in a rare while in situations where it would almost seem odd not to, and I just nurse that single drink. I'm starting to realize, however, that I don't have a handle on what the rules are for this level of just-barely-drinking in regards to driving, since I never really have to deal with it. The standard refrain is "don't drink and drive", but to what extent does that ideal apply when someone is never even getting "buzzed" let alone drunk. Here's the specific situation I'm wrestling with right now:

A new friend mentioned that she likes the beer produced by a certain brewery that's about 90 minutes away from where we live. She's never actually visited the brewery, but expressed interest in doing so. Without really thinking it through, I suggested we make a daytrip of it sometime soon, but now I'm trying to work out if the logistics make sense and if my plan is socially acceptable drinking/driving behavior. Or if such a thing even exists.

My thought was that we would go to the brewery, have either a single beer or more likely a flight (which would consist of 4 2oz. pours, so 8oz. total), go to a restaurant for a meal, and maybe roam around the area on foot a little. So, it would probably be at least 2-3 hours from the consumption of alcohol to getting back in the car to make the 90 minute drive home.

I know that everyone reacts to alcohol differently and everyone has their own personal rules they live by, but my general question is, does this sound like a viable plan? Personally, I do know that I can have a single beer with no issue of impairment whatsoever, and that's in the time immediately following consumption, let alone 2-3 hours afterwards. Does proposing ANY outing that involves driving after drinking raise eyebrows and lead to harsh judgements of character even if the drinking is about as minimal as can be and the driving won't be happening immediately? Or am I overthinking this and it just sounds like a normal and safe thing that adults would do?

posted by thornhill to Society & Culture (38 answers total)

That sounds totally fine and would raise no eyebrows in my social circle.
posted by Malleable at 2:42 PM on June 10, 2018 [41 favorites]

Everyone responds differently, but yes, for most people there is an acceptable amount of alcohol after which driving is ok. For me, that’s one drink plus about 20 minutes, for my partner, it’s two drinks.

If you’re only an occasional drinker I’d lean hard on the conservative side. Your plan sounds conservative to me.
posted by OrangeVelour at 2:43 PM on June 10, 2018 [17 favorites]

Sounds fine to me too. You'd be more impaired by staying up late the night before than by having 8oz. of beer 2 hours before driving.
posted by bricoleur at 2:43 PM on June 10, 2018 [5 favorites]

This is why there are blood alcohol content laws. The law does not assume no one ever has, say, a glass of wine with dinner before driving home from a restaurant. It assumes there is a difference between zero alcohol in the blood and too much, which would impair you. There are websites that help you calculate this. Here, for example, is one from a car insurance company.

That said, you need to know your own reaction to alcohol in order to make these judgments intuitively. I do know someone who can't drive after half a beer.
posted by nantucket at 2:46 PM on June 10, 2018 [5 favorites]

Normal to me. There are two micro breweries down the street from where I work and I regularly stop in for a growler fill and a sample or two on the way home from work.

There'll be laws for this depending on where you live, and I think pretty much anywhere in USA/Canada/Europe allow for roughly the equivalent of one beer/drink/glass of wine per hour for the average person. Google for your state or province + legal blood alcohol limit.
posted by mannequito at 2:46 PM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]

I am essentially a non-drinker and less than one standard drink 2 hours before driving sounds perfectly acceptable. There will be some people who are entirely zero tolerance, but they'll probably tell you that they're on the extreme end if they veto this plan and not think you're a horrible person for suggesting it.
posted by jeather at 2:48 PM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]

Have you run your plan past your friend - assuming you're driving for both of you, do they have any views on people drinking any amount and driving (some people do)? If they are not comfortable with it, even with you drinking a small amount, do you have a backup plan for getting there? Do you need to drive to visit the place?

You know your limits and have at least given this some thought. Certainly do check your local laws on consumption of alcohol and driving.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 2:55 PM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]

There are European countries that have no/very low tolerance, so watch out if you travel - Austria is quite low and Czech Republic has no tolerance (as in 0.0%), and it’s taken quite seriously; people won’t drink at all if they drive. That said, in the US, your approach is perfectly acceptable in almost all circumstances.
posted by OneSmartMonkey at 2:56 PM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]

You can estimate your BAC.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:00 PM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]

I would not do what you are planning (because I prefer to be stricter about drinking and driving), but it would not be considered unacceptable in my social circle, particularly if you are a man.
posted by plonkee at 3:16 PM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]

I live near a brewery and some bars and I can say confidently that many, many people are comfortable driving after having many more drinks than you are planning.

Personally, and this is just me, my rule is no more than 1-2 drinks if I am driving, with food and slowly. More than that and I will Uber or bus it.

Your plan sounds safe and legal, but not many beer loving people I know would travel so far for so little drinking. Just FYI, in case your friend is planning more of a serious brewery event. In that case, the common approach is to have a designated driver who drinks minimally if at all, and others can have all the pints they want.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:34 PM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]

This would be totally normal for me or my friends, but we typically drink 4-7 alcoholic beverages a week, so our tolerance would allow for this. When I drank less, a single drink would get me lightheaded enough that I wouldn't want to drive for an hour or two. I also had less acid reflux but really that's neither here nor there.

I think your plan is fine, but you should definitely eat a good hearty meal, drink lots of water, and take a walk before you hit the road, if you feel lightheaded at all.
posted by pazazygeek at 3:36 PM on June 10, 2018

It really depends on where you are and what your friends think about drinking. In rural Wisconsin, for example, it's perfectly normal to pound an entire case and drive immediately. Planning a social event *without* seri King and driving is frowned upon. (I'm joking, of course, but Wisconsinites know it's not that far off.) Your scenario sounds normal to anyone but the strictest anti-drunk driving activist. And if your friend does turn out to be strict, you can easily resolve the situation by roping another friend in to be your designated driver. That, especially, is not unusual at all.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:08 PM on June 10, 2018

Your plan sounds fine except that, as someone mentioned above, I'd be surprised if your beer-loving friend travels all that way to just have one beer or flight. Who will be doing the driving in this plan? If it's your friend, it's worth a conversation ahead of time. If it's you and you're just going to have the one beer or flight, that seems fine.
posted by sunflower16 at 4:24 PM on June 10, 2018 [6 favorites]

You don't drink much. Offer to drive. If you had 8 - 12 oz. of beer, then dinner, your BAC would be quite low. I like sampling beer and if I made brew pub plans, would appreciate someone's offer to drive.
posted by theora55 at 4:24 PM on June 10, 2018 [6 favorites]

I previously lived in a place with several nearby breweries, a strong craft beer culture, and little to no public transportation. This sort of thing was typical in our social circle (late 20s, professionals). We didn't have to do a 90 min drive, more like 20-30 min, but a beer or a flight with a meal and some chillin' was the standard way to spend a Saturday afternoon.
posted by basalganglia at 4:26 PM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]

As a counterpoint to the above, your plan would be both illegal (probably - dependent on metabolism) and increasingly also morally unacceptable where I am at the moment. The idea that people "know their own limits" is not really borne out by research, which shows that you start to see impairments to functions needed for safe driving at really quite low blood alcohol concentrations, where the liklihood is that you will perceive yourself to be unimpaired. The government here is confident enough in this that they have a little reaction time tester that you can test yourself with both with and without alcohol.

I wouldn't bite your head off if you suggested your plan to me, but I would give you the verbal of the above.
posted by Vortisaur at 4:31 PM on June 10, 2018 [16 favorites]

Professional bartender here. Your plan sounds both sane and safe. The typical human body breaks down a 12oz. beer, 6oz. glass of wine, or 3oz. hard (80 proof) spirit mixed drink in about an hour. If you have one beer and wait two hours and can't pass a breathalyzer something is up with your liver or nervous system. Or emotional health.

When I was younger, I got away with quite a bit of drunk driving. I used up a lot of luck. These days if I'm driving a have one drink. At home, with the car safely parked, I pound whisky and get rowdy. But never in a car. I never crashed or got arrested back then, but I think back on it and feel awful. So I applaud you running this though your scopes.
posted by vrakatar at 4:55 PM on June 10, 2018 [10 favorites]

Where are you? Both legal and social standards vary wildly from country to country. A bunch of Americans telling you that sounds reasonable isn't good advice if you live elsewhere.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:13 PM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]

As a counterpoint to the above, your plan would be both illegal (probably - dependent on metabolism) and increasingly also morally unacceptable where I am at the moment.

50mg per 100ml is not zero. Here's an estimator.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:33 PM on June 10, 2018

I am super cautious about drinking and driving, and I wouldn't drive after a flight of beers, even if I waited an hour - maybe two to three hours might be okay, but I wouldn't want to commit to a plan that required driving in that situation, because I wouldn't be 100% sure I'd be at my most alert.

But I would definitely be okay with your plan if I just had a single beer. A single (small) beer with a meal or followed by a meal would not impair me in the least, and I'd be comfortable driving afterwards.

In both cases, the person will almost certainly be under the legal limit (assuming they don't have any extremely strange metabolic quirks), so people less cautious than I am would be fine in either scenario.
posted by lollusc at 6:40 PM on June 10, 2018

(And if I was your friend and wanted to try all the beers, I'd suggest we share a flight, and I'd just have a sip of each. That would be fine too.)
posted by lollusc at 6:41 PM on June 10, 2018

Flights are typically 4oz x4, not 2oz, at Least near me fyi. You also have to into consideration the abv. 12% imperial stouts vs 3% berliners for example.

Dining out and walking around afterwards is a good thing. Also drink water at all the places.
posted by TheAdamist at 6:52 PM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]

I would use this chart to calculate how much I can drink before I can't drive, rather than go on whether or not I feel "buzzed." I think waiting at least a few hours between your last drink and driving (and whoever's driving drinks less than the other one) is a good idea. But this isn't really a "socially acceptable" question so much as it should be a "legally acceptable" one.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:31 PM on June 10, 2018

TheAdamist just said it, but I'll repeat - keep an eye out on the ABV in the beers you select. Those handy drinking charts were more useful when it was generally the case that "a beer" meant 12 ounces of about 4.5 ABV in a can. At a craft brewery you may (likely) find that flights are 4 drinks of 4 ounces each and range up to 10 ABV or higher. I still think your plan is reasonable, but if you have doubts I also suggest you be selective in your choices for the flight.
posted by meinvt at 8:08 PM on June 10, 2018 [6 favorites]

My wife and I do trips like this a lot. I'm happy just having one beer or small pours of a couple beers, and drinking root beer or coffee while she has a second round. I usually also get a growler or choose a couple bottles, to "make up" for having to do the driving.
posted by roll truck roll at 9:52 PM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]

Does proposing ANY outing that involves driving after drinking raise eyebrows and lead to harsh judgements of character

Yes. Absolutely. 100%. Particularly if the place actually produces alcohol.

If you're going somewhere and you plan to drink alcohol you arrange for a way to get home that doesn't involve driving. Buy the alcohol there and enjoy it at home.

I'm really surprised at peoples' nonchalance in this thread - seemingly casual drink driving is an American thing?
(For reference I'm Irish, live in Australia, and drink significantly more than you.)
posted by coleboptera at 10:31 PM on June 10, 2018 [7 favorites]

seemingly casual drink driving is an American thing?

A higher tolerance for drinking and driving is totally an American thing. I've noticed a sharp difference in perception since moving to the UK.

That said, 8oz is not even half a pint (20 ounces in a pint). I think having a half pint of beer followed by food and no more alcohol and driving 2-3 hours later (and the clock starts after you finish your flight) is totally fine, even for UK standards. This is assuming an average ABV of like under 5%.

That said, I dunno about driving 90 minutes for a half pint of beer! At least plan to buy a few bottles to take with you and you can drink in the comfort of home. Think of the flights as tester samples. Don't feel pressured to finish any of them and use them as a way to select what full size bottles to buy. If you mention this plan to the bartender, they may give you more background info about the beers and it'll be more of an experience than just knocking back shot glasses of beer.
posted by like_neon at 2:15 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]

I'm really surprised at peoples' nonchalance in this thread - seemingly casual drink driving is an American thing?

So here is the thing, humans have this amazing ability to break down alcohol and excrete it from their bodies. This is called metabolism and on average it will happen at a similar rate for most people. This does take time, though probably not as much as you would think. In average you are able to metabolise approximately one US pint of a 5% beer in an hour. In essence this means that after an hour after you've finished your drink you would have excreted the alcohol from your system. (The actual pharmacokinetics are more complicated and involve oxidation and other matabolic byproducts over simple excretion but the take home message of 1 hour per drink ish holds) Also I'm assuming that you've both had a drink and then sometime after the drink, like overnight, had driven and were fine and no longer intoxicated. So the idea of drinking and driving after a time isn't itself a bad thing, you're just more comfortable with a sleep in there as well.

From the initial question:

My thought was that we would go to the brewery, have either a single beer or more likely a flight (which would consist of 4 2oz. pours, so 8oz. total), go to a restaurant for a meal, and maybe roam around the area on foot a little. So, it would probably be at least 2-3 hours from the consumption of alcohol to getting back in the car to make the 90 minute drive home.


So in essence they would be driving somewhere and having a single beer. Then having a lunch somewhere followed by wandering around for a bit then driving home. So given the metabolism is about 1 drink in an hour and they would have left 2-3 hours after the drink then therefore they wouldn't actually have any alcohol left in them at all when they are driving back, so they aren't actually drinking and driving.

Conversely say someone goes out on a session with their friend and has 6 pints and 8 shots starting at 9PM and ending at 2 AM. They manage to stagger to their friends home and wake up feeling OK at 9AM and drive back to their house. They would actually be driving under the influence even though they had slept because they had 12 hours to metabolise 14 drinks and are probably close to or slightly over the drunk drive limit depending on their country of driving.
posted by koolkat at 6:00 AM on June 11, 2018 [7 favorites]

Those calculators are using very different formulas. The Progressive calculator gives me a BAC of .019 for 2 beers over 2 hours, and the Nolo calculator gives me .038 for the exact same inputs. That's a little more than a rounding error.
posted by COD at 6:16 AM on June 11, 2018

"Let's drive to meet at local winery/brewery, have one drink, eat a bunch of carbs, and drive home a few hours later" sounds like a completely normal thing to me and if anything I'm surprised so many people are vehemently against it here.

I guess that's American bias, but all the little country wineries basically depend on this business/tourism model (no other way to get to these places), and I've never met a single person in real life who has suggested it is even dubious, let alone dangerous. And I say that as someone who once went on a one-day wine tour with friends and we hired a car service to drive us around to make sure it was safe.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:44 AM on June 11, 2018 [2 favorites]

I think the real reason as to why it is so socially acceptable (sorta) here is that in most locations you have to drive. Public transport is frequently not an option. (I cannot speak for Uber/Lyft use in these situations now though.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:47 AM on June 11, 2018

Does proposing ANY outing that involves driving after drinking raise eyebrows and lead to harsh judgements of character even if the drinking is about as minimal as can be and the driving won't be happening immediately?

This is exactly the sort of scenario--a very small amount of alcohol with food and a few hours of metabolism time--that is well within the range of super-acceptable and safe behavior.

The important thing is to not base your ability to drive on how you feel (because, duh, your judgement is impaired!) but instead to just let a few hours go by so that your body can break down the alcohol.
posted by desuetude at 10:25 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]

Generally I would say that if this is legal where you live, your plan sounds completely reasonable. However... are you on any medications? Read the labels or go to the manufacturer's website - do they say anything about alcohol, impairment, or drowsiness? I take Wellbutrin and I can be really fucked up after one drink.
posted by AFABulous at 12:58 PM on June 12, 2018

I'm really surprised at peoples' nonchalance in this thread - seemingly casual drink driving is an American thing? (For reference I'm Irish...)

I assume you missed the part where the duly elected, very popular Healey Raes literally advocate laxer drinking laws in Ireland.

"But I won’t believe until the day I die someone who drinks two or three glasses, or a pint-and-a-half, are a liability or danger on the road. "
posted by DarlingBri at 4:16 PM on June 12, 2018

In contrast, Scotland just passed even stricter laws where a pint would put you over.
posted by like_neon at 5:06 AM on June 13, 2018

But not after an hour, which includes food.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:08 AM on June 15, 2018

Which is exactly what I told the OP. I was providing a cultural contrast, which is also what the OP asked for.
posted by like_neon at 6:23 AM on June 15, 2018