Sorry I had to shoot your dog
January 25, 2016 8:45 AM Subscribe
Do pets have a legal right to self-defense, and if so, can pet owners legally apply that right on behalf of their pets?
[Trigger alert: extended explanation describes a hypothetical violent dog attack on another dog.]
[Note: this is entirely a hypothetical question - I do not own a gun or a dog. If state law is relevant to the question, I live in California.]
Let's say I'm walking my small, non-aggressive Shih Tzu down the street and suddenly a bigger and stronger dog, growling and snarling and no owner in sight, pounces on my dog, locks his jaw around my dog's neck, and starts thrashing my dog left and right in the air in a break-your-neck maneuver.
Would it be my legal right to stop that dog from (in my perception) imminently killing my dog, using whatever means are at my disposal, such as a gun, knife, baseball bat, even if I there's the possibility the aggressor dog will be killed by my actions?
I'm not asking whether this is a prudent or fair thing to do, I'm just asking whether it would likely be seen by the legal community as a legal form of self-defensive on behalf of my pet who cannot defend itself.
[Note: this is entirely a hypothetical question - I do not own a gun or a dog. If state law is relevant to the question, I live in California.]
Let's say I'm walking my small, non-aggressive Shih Tzu down the street and suddenly a bigger and stronger dog, growling and snarling and no owner in sight, pounces on my dog, locks his jaw around my dog's neck, and starts thrashing my dog left and right in the air in a break-your-neck maneuver.
Would it be my legal right to stop that dog from (in my perception) imminently killing my dog, using whatever means are at my disposal, such as a gun, knife, baseball bat, even if I there's the possibility the aggressor dog will be killed by my actions?
I'm not asking whether this is a prudent or fair thing to do, I'm just asking whether it would likely be seen by the legal community as a legal form of self-defensive on behalf of my pet who cannot defend itself.
I believe it would be legal, but not because you were defending an animal who has rights, but because you would be defending an animal which is your property and there are already established laws for that from times when you had to worry about roving dogs getting your sheep, chickens, etc.
posted by corb at 9:36 AM on January 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 9:36 AM on January 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
In practice this happened to a friend of mine - a neighbors dog attacked his dog, totally ignored his attempts to fight it off, and then a separate neighbor shot and killed the dog (fearing for the safety of my friend). The police didn't arrest anybody or anything over it.
posted by dismas at 9:58 AM on January 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dismas at 9:58 AM on January 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm just asking whether it would likely be seen by the legal community as a legal form of self-defensive on behalf of my pet who cannot defend itself.
Your pet is not human, and doesn't enjoy the same rights as you do. So, from a legal perspective, there's no "on behalf of" aspect here, not in the same way you would "act on behalf of" a child or a person in your care.
While you love your pet, in the eyes of the law, your pet is your property. Your notion of self-defense is specific to you (i.e. that crazy dog attacking your pet is also a threat to you, personally) and your property. Your pet is quite literally livestock. If your cows were being attacked by dogs (or wolves or mountain lions), you could fight them off to prevent a loss of property.
The law also respects timeliness and reasonable effort. There was a case in my hometown where a dog attacked a child, and hours after the child was rescued, the child's father went to the owner's house and killed the dog. The father was charged with several crimes there -- trespassing, assault, destruction of property, etc.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:23 PM on January 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Your pet is not human, and doesn't enjoy the same rights as you do. So, from a legal perspective, there's no "on behalf of" aspect here, not in the same way you would "act on behalf of" a child or a person in your care.
While you love your pet, in the eyes of the law, your pet is your property. Your notion of self-defense is specific to you (i.e. that crazy dog attacking your pet is also a threat to you, personally) and your property. Your pet is quite literally livestock. If your cows were being attacked by dogs (or wolves or mountain lions), you could fight them off to prevent a loss of property.
The law also respects timeliness and reasonable effort. There was a case in my hometown where a dog attacked a child, and hours after the child was rescued, the child's father went to the owner's house and killed the dog. The father was charged with several crimes there -- trespassing, assault, destruction of property, etc.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:23 PM on January 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Your pet isn't livestock actually. You can shoot a dog that is on your property with livestock or chasing them even if it hasn't bitten. Livestock has very very specific laws most places and pets aren't included.
In your scenario you are legally within your right to kill a dog that attacks your pet on a leash or your own property. Many places you can even kill one that "menaces" you, but not all places. You can't go on someone else's property as noted above and kill their dogs without legal liability even if they have attacked your pet that strayed. You can't go to a dog park and threaten to shoot perfectly harmless dogs because you are "afraid" they are attacking your dog, when really they are just doing dog park romping and such- this actually happened, I saw it and the guy was charged with brandishing.
posted by fshgrl at 5:15 PM on January 25, 2016
In your scenario you are legally within your right to kill a dog that attacks your pet on a leash or your own property. Many places you can even kill one that "menaces" you, but not all places. You can't go on someone else's property as noted above and kill their dogs without legal liability even if they have attacked your pet that strayed. You can't go to a dog park and threaten to shoot perfectly harmless dogs because you are "afraid" they are attacking your dog, when really they are just doing dog park romping and such- this actually happened, I saw it and the guy was charged with brandishing.
posted by fshgrl at 5:15 PM on January 25, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
2.1. Self-defense / defense of others
California's self-defense laws permit you to defend yourself or another person/animal if there is the danger of an imminent attack.22 These laws protect against danger posed by an animal in the same manner as they do against the danger posed by a person.23
This means that if you only injured or even killed another animal because that animal was attacking you, another person, or another animal, your actions may be excused, as long as you took no more action than was reasonably necessary to ward off the attack.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:49 AM on January 25, 2016 [1 favorite]