Who was William Penn?
October 7, 2010 12:17 PM Subscribe
History Filter: Please explain William Penn to me in elementary terms.
My fourth grade son's social studies project this year has to follow a theme.
The theme this year is Debate & Diplomacy: Successes, Failures, Consequences
I want my son to be able to research his project mostly on his own. He needs to have a firm grasp on his chosen topic and be able to explain it to judges and teachers.
I didn't come up with the idea of William Penn as a good subject. My child and I attended a social studies orientation at the public library and the librarian suggested William Penn as a possible topic.
The list of sample topics from National History Day are too complex for a 10-year-old.
Sample topics for this year's theme.
My son wanted to do his project on Jackie Robinson but I'm afraid this wouldn't follow the theme because there wasn't really a debate, or diplomacy, regarding the exclusion of blacks from MLB. It was just plain racism. Then they found the "right" man to break the color barrier.
Personally, I know very little about William Penn. I know he was a Quaker and "bought" what is now Pennsylvania? I know he fought for religious tolerance. This is about all I know. I will soon know more. I have started reading about Penn on the internet and I have reserved five children's books on Penn from the library. We will of course do further reading and research on the internet and elsewhere.
Because the topic is Debate and Diplomacy (it doesn't have to be both debate and diplomacy, either will do) I thought William Penn would be a good idea because of the diplomacy part. What I would like to know is how William Penn was a diplomat. Did he negotiate with the king? Was he diplomatic with the American Indians? Where does the diplomacy thing come in? Thankfully the project (he has decided to do a poster) must be very simple and there cannot be too many words on the poster board but the board must be clear and to the point. It needs to be a snapshot of William Penn's diplomacy.
Can you tell I don't know jack? Also, apologies for the rambling. With further reading I could probably answer how and why William Penn used diplomacy. Before that I thought I could ask AskMe so I could explain Penn to my kid in a nutshell.
Thanks so much for any replies.
My fourth grade son's social studies project this year has to follow a theme.
The theme this year is Debate & Diplomacy: Successes, Failures, Consequences
I want my son to be able to research his project mostly on his own. He needs to have a firm grasp on his chosen topic and be able to explain it to judges and teachers.
I didn't come up with the idea of William Penn as a good subject. My child and I attended a social studies orientation at the public library and the librarian suggested William Penn as a possible topic.
The list of sample topics from National History Day are too complex for a 10-year-old.
Sample topics for this year's theme.
My son wanted to do his project on Jackie Robinson but I'm afraid this wouldn't follow the theme because there wasn't really a debate, or diplomacy, regarding the exclusion of blacks from MLB. It was just plain racism. Then they found the "right" man to break the color barrier.
Personally, I know very little about William Penn. I know he was a Quaker and "bought" what is now Pennsylvania? I know he fought for religious tolerance. This is about all I know. I will soon know more. I have started reading about Penn on the internet and I have reserved five children's books on Penn from the library. We will of course do further reading and research on the internet and elsewhere.
Because the topic is Debate and Diplomacy (it doesn't have to be both debate and diplomacy, either will do) I thought William Penn would be a good idea because of the diplomacy part. What I would like to know is how William Penn was a diplomat. Did he negotiate with the king? Was he diplomatic with the American Indians? Where does the diplomacy thing come in? Thankfully the project (he has decided to do a poster) must be very simple and there cannot be too many words on the poster board but the board must be clear and to the point. It needs to be a snapshot of William Penn's diplomacy.
Can you tell I don't know jack? Also, apologies for the rambling. With further reading I could probably answer how and why William Penn used diplomacy. Before that I thought I could ask AskMe so I could explain Penn to my kid in a nutshell.
Thanks so much for any replies.
Best answer: In addition to the library books you checked out, you may also want to see if your library subscribes to a history or biography online database; sometimes these are even geared for school-age kids.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 12:57 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by rabbitrabbit at 12:57 PM on October 7, 2010
Best answer: Penn's bio from Quaker.org.
" Penn achieved peaceful relations with the Indians--Susquehannocks, Shawnees, and Leni-Lenape. Indians respected his courage, because he ventured among them without guards or personal weapons. He was a superior sprinter who could out-run Indian braves, and this helped win him respect. He took the trouble to learn Indian dialects, so he could conduct negotiations without interpreters. From the very beginning, he acquired Indian land through peaceful, voluntary exchange. Reportedly, Penn concluded a "Great Treaty" with the Indians at Shackamaxon, near what is now the Kensington district of Philadelphia. Voltaire hailed this as "the only treaty between those people [Indians and Christians] that was not ratified by an oath, and that was never infringed." His peaceful policies prevailed for about 70 years, which has to be some kind of record in American history.
Defending Pennsylvania
Penn faced tough challenges defending Pennsylvania back in England. There was a lot at stake, because Pennsylvania had become the best hope for persecuted people in England, France, and Germany. Charles II tried to establish an intolerant absolutism modeled after that of the French King Louis XIV. Concerned that Pennsylvania's charter might be revoked, Penn turned on his diplomatic charm.
Behind the scenes, Penn worked as a remarkable diplomat for religious toleration. Every day, as many as 200 petitioners waited outside Holland House, his London lodgings, hoping for an audience and help. He intervened personally with the King to save scores of Quakers from a death sentence. He got Society of Friends founder George Fox out of jail. He helped convince the King to proclaim the Acts of Indulgence which released more than a thousand Quakers--many had been imprisoned for over a dozen years."
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:28 PM on October 7, 2010
" Penn achieved peaceful relations with the Indians--Susquehannocks, Shawnees, and Leni-Lenape. Indians respected his courage, because he ventured among them without guards or personal weapons. He was a superior sprinter who could out-run Indian braves, and this helped win him respect. He took the trouble to learn Indian dialects, so he could conduct negotiations without interpreters. From the very beginning, he acquired Indian land through peaceful, voluntary exchange. Reportedly, Penn concluded a "Great Treaty" with the Indians at Shackamaxon, near what is now the Kensington district of Philadelphia. Voltaire hailed this as "the only treaty between those people [Indians and Christians] that was not ratified by an oath, and that was never infringed." His peaceful policies prevailed for about 70 years, which has to be some kind of record in American history.
Defending Pennsylvania
Penn faced tough challenges defending Pennsylvania back in England. There was a lot at stake, because Pennsylvania had become the best hope for persecuted people in England, France, and Germany. Charles II tried to establish an intolerant absolutism modeled after that of the French King Louis XIV. Concerned that Pennsylvania's charter might be revoked, Penn turned on his diplomatic charm.
Behind the scenes, Penn worked as a remarkable diplomat for religious toleration. Every day, as many as 200 petitioners waited outside Holland House, his London lodgings, hoping for an audience and help. He intervened personally with the King to save scores of Quakers from a death sentence. He got Society of Friends founder George Fox out of jail. He helped convince the King to proclaim the Acts of Indulgence which released more than a thousand Quakers--many had been imprisoned for over a dozen years."
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:28 PM on October 7, 2010
Best answer: P.S. Don't forget Edward Hicks's "The Peacable Kingdom," which includes Penn making a treaty with the Indians.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:33 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:33 PM on October 7, 2010
Response by poster: Thank you so much for the replies. You are all awesome.
I just got back from the library and I checked out some kids books on Penn. I read of few pages in a book on Delaware and basically (as you all have noted above) William Penn acquired the land that is now Delaware and Pennsylvania because King Charles II owed Penn money. William Penn was part of the Society of Friends (Quakers) and was arrested repeatedly, along with other followers. William Penn felt that he could not practice his religion freely in England. King Charles II didn't like him and the other Friends because they were against the Church of England. Penn asked for land in form of repayment. The king could kill four birds with one stone this way. The king could get rid of Penn, relieve his debt, occupy the empty land between New York and Maryland, and get rid of thousands of other Friends. Both sides were happy.
I should have known this tidbit, but didn't. Shame.
Thanks again!
posted by Fairchild at 1:56 PM on October 7, 2010
I just got back from the library and I checked out some kids books on Penn. I read of few pages in a book on Delaware and basically (as you all have noted above) William Penn acquired the land that is now Delaware and Pennsylvania because King Charles II owed Penn money. William Penn was part of the Society of Friends (Quakers) and was arrested repeatedly, along with other followers. William Penn felt that he could not practice his religion freely in England. King Charles II didn't like him and the other Friends because they were against the Church of England. Penn asked for land in form of repayment. The king could kill four birds with one stone this way. The king could get rid of Penn, relieve his debt, occupy the empty land between New York and Maryland, and get rid of thousands of other Friends. Both sides were happy.
I should have known this tidbit, but didn't. Shame.
Thanks again!
posted by Fairchild at 1:56 PM on October 7, 2010
Best answer: In terms of diplomacy, in the 1690s William Penn suggested a permanent European Parliament composed of representatives from all the European states, including even the Ottoman Empire (Turkey), a somewhat radical proposition at a time when the Ottomans were still seen by many as a Muslim threat to Western Christendom. This Parliament would have indirect powers over the member states. Penn felt this would help promote peace throughout Europe, and some historians have argued that this was a kind of predecessor of the League of Nations, UN, and/or European Union.
You can find a slightly modernized version of the text here, but I don't think that would be very helpful for a 10-year-old. Google around bit for "An Essay towards the Present and Future Peace of Europe by the Establishment of a European Diet, Parliament or Estates."
posted by dhens at 2:01 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
You can find a slightly modernized version of the text here, but I don't think that would be very helpful for a 10-year-old. Google around bit for "An Essay towards the Present and Future Peace of Europe by the Establishment of a European Diet, Parliament or Estates."
posted by dhens at 2:01 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My son wanted to do his project on Jackie Robinson but I'm afraid this wouldn't follow the theme because there wasn't really a debate, or diplomacy, regarding the exclusion of blacks from MLB. It was just plain racism. Then they found the "right" man to break the color barrier.
I don't see why Jackie Robinson wouldn't fit the theme.
Why was society so segregated, and what were the beliefs that kept policies of segregation in place? Who was calling for integration vs segregation, and what were their arguments? It's certainly not as simple as everyone walking around simply full of hate for other races.
Did teams desegregate just to get the best player, or because someone in power really believed that segregation was wrong? Why was Jackie Robinson the "right" man? How did he manage his symbolic role? That's diplomacy, isn't it?
How did Jackie Robinson affect the perceptions of white people in America? How did it affect the black community? What effect did integrating baseball have on segregation? Which of those old racist arguments still haven't been stamped out? Those are consequences.
posted by desuetude at 2:24 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't see why Jackie Robinson wouldn't fit the theme.
Why was society so segregated, and what were the beliefs that kept policies of segregation in place? Who was calling for integration vs segregation, and what were their arguments? It's certainly not as simple as everyone walking around simply full of hate for other races.
Did teams desegregate just to get the best player, or because someone in power really believed that segregation was wrong? Why was Jackie Robinson the "right" man? How did he manage his symbolic role? That's diplomacy, isn't it?
How did Jackie Robinson affect the perceptions of white people in America? How did it affect the black community? What effect did integrating baseball have on segregation? Which of those old racist arguments still haven't been stamped out? Those are consequences.
posted by desuetude at 2:24 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: His statue sits atop city hall in Philadelphia (he was responsible for the city's planning in regard to a checkerboard pattern that ran in straight lines, instead of Europe's curving streets btw):
For many years, City Hall remained the tallest building in Philadelphia under the terms of a "gentlemen's agreement" that forbade any structure from rising above the William Penn statue atop City Hall. In 1987, it lost this distinction when One Liberty Place was completed. (The breaking of this agreement is said to be the cause of the so-called Curse of Billy Penn, under the supposed influence of which no major-league Philadelphia sports team won a championship between 1983 and 2007.)
posted by NoraCharles at 2:26 PM on October 7, 2010
For many years, City Hall remained the tallest building in Philadelphia under the terms of a "gentlemen's agreement" that forbade any structure from rising above the William Penn statue atop City Hall. In 1987, it lost this distinction when One Liberty Place was completed. (The breaking of this agreement is said to be the cause of the so-called Curse of Billy Penn, under the supposed influence of which no major-league Philadelphia sports team won a championship between 1983 and 2007.)
posted by NoraCharles at 2:26 PM on October 7, 2010
Response by poster: desuetude, your points are well taken. We will have to think about this.
This year's theme is especially challenging. It must be historical (check for Penn and Robinson), it must have diplomacy or debate, and have a consequence. Current debates are not applicable because there is not yet an identifiable result or consequence. I was afraid my son could not fit Robinson into the theme but desuetude has me thinking otherwise. It is still a bit abstract, or maybe I'm not seeing it. I was thinking Penn might be "easier" because both sides got what they wanted diplomatically and there is a clear cut consequence.
I'm marking best answers to all because all are very helpful. Thank you.
posted by Fairchild at 2:40 PM on October 7, 2010
This year's theme is especially challenging. It must be historical (check for Penn and Robinson), it must have diplomacy or debate, and have a consequence. Current debates are not applicable because there is not yet an identifiable result or consequence. I was afraid my son could not fit Robinson into the theme but desuetude has me thinking otherwise. It is still a bit abstract, or maybe I'm not seeing it. I was thinking Penn might be "easier" because both sides got what they wanted diplomatically and there is a clear cut consequence.
I'm marking best answers to all because all are very helpful. Thank you.
posted by Fairchild at 2:40 PM on October 7, 2010
Best answer: Oh, it's such a relief to come back to this thread and see that you aren't annoyed that I digressed a bit from your actual question!
I think the hardest thing about Robinson is staring down both the overt, hateful racism used to justify segregation, and the casually ignorant prejudice that kept most white people from giving it a second thought.
That said, I think it would be an awesome and meaningful project for a 10-year-old.
posted by desuetude at 1:30 PM on October 8, 2010
I think the hardest thing about Robinson is staring down both the overt, hateful racism used to justify segregation, and the casually ignorant prejudice that kept most white people from giving it a second thought.
That said, I think it would be an awesome and meaningful project for a 10-year-old.
posted by desuetude at 1:30 PM on October 8, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
The Pennsylvania Historical Society link where I found that image might be a good starting point; it's on Penn's relationship with the Indians.
Pennsylvania was given to him by the King in payment of a debt the king owed Penn's father, and I don't know to what extent there was negotiation about that.
posted by not that girl at 12:48 PM on October 7, 2010