Was I presumptuous with him?
May 10, 2010 11:46 AM Subscribe
Dating Filter: was I presumptuous?
I am a female in my 40s. I have gone on 5 dates with a guy, same, age, that I met online, over the last 6 weeks or so. Very ordinary, nonphysical, "getting to know you" dates. So I sent him an email on Friday saying, "Anyhow, I was wondering if we were going to get together this weekend or if [guy had other things to do] " The next day he called and told me that he'd been offended that I "presumed" that way. Apparently it would have been perfectly okay if I'd written, "Do you want to get together this weekend?" but the way I phrased it was wrong and was making an assumption.
I'm kind of offended myself now, and not sure I even want to pursue things at all anymore. Personally I can't see any significant difference between those two phrasings, but I thought I'd throw it out to you folks for opinions; maybe I'm wrong and need to stop pouting and type more slowly and thoughtfully.
I am a female in my 40s. I have gone on 5 dates with a guy, same, age, that I met online, over the last 6 weeks or so. Very ordinary, nonphysical, "getting to know you" dates. So I sent him an email on Friday saying, "Anyhow, I was wondering if we were going to get together this weekend or if [guy had other things to do] " The next day he called and told me that he'd been offended that I "presumed" that way. Apparently it would have been perfectly okay if I'd written, "Do you want to get together this weekend?" but the way I phrased it was wrong and was making an assumption.
I'm kind of offended myself now, and not sure I even want to pursue things at all anymore. Personally I can't see any significant difference between those two phrasings, but I thought I'd throw it out to you folks for opinions; maybe I'm wrong and need to stop pouting and type more slowly and thoughtfully.
It's a sign of things to come if you pursue a relationship with him.
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:49 AM on May 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:49 AM on May 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
Yup. If you're going to be arguing about something as little as that so early on, you are totally not compatible.
posted by Melismata at 11:50 AM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 11:50 AM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
He sounds like a barrel of drama, keep fishing
posted by Think_Long at 11:50 AM on May 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 11:50 AM on May 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
Apparently it would have been perfectly okay if I'd written, "Do you want to get together this weekend?" but the way I phrased it was wrong and was making an assumption.
You shouldn't have to tiptoe that much around something simple like plans. This is a big red flag that you shouldn't waste time on someone who can be offended by you wanting to spend time with him.
posted by Hiker at 11:51 AM on May 10, 2010 [7 favorites]
You shouldn't have to tiptoe that much around something simple like plans. This is a big red flag that you shouldn't waste time on someone who can be offended by you wanting to spend time with him.
posted by Hiker at 11:51 AM on May 10, 2010 [7 favorites]
FLEE
posted by atrazine at 11:52 AM on May 10, 2010 [27 favorites]
posted by atrazine at 11:52 AM on May 10, 2010 [27 favorites]
That right there is what you call a red flag.
posted by Jupiter Jones at 11:52 AM on May 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by Jupiter Jones at 11:52 AM on May 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
Hypersensitive->insecurity ... bail out now.
posted by allelopath at 11:52 AM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by allelopath at 11:52 AM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
That is way too sensitive.
Give him a second chance if you're really into him, otherwise, FLEE.
posted by pseudonick at 11:53 AM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Give him a second chance if you're really into him, otherwise, FLEE.
posted by pseudonick at 11:53 AM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Breathe a sigh of relief that you found out about his issues this early on, and move on!
posted by peacheater at 11:53 AM on May 10, 2010
posted by peacheater at 11:53 AM on May 10, 2010
Well, you have gotten to know enough now about him to look elsewhere. He's bananas.
Also, you type fine.
posted by bearwife at 11:55 AM on May 10, 2010
Also, you type fine.
posted by bearwife at 11:55 AM on May 10, 2010
Are you interested in being in a relationship where you'll need to constantly self-moderate, to ensure you don't offend this fellow's delicate sensibilities?
posted by biggity at 11:56 AM on May 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by biggity at 11:56 AM on May 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
People interpret things differently. You were giving him an out; he didn't see it that way, but rather you creating social distance or expressing apathy or something like that.
You need to decide if your time and happiness with this guy is worth the effort it's going to take to disambiguate the miscommunications that will inevitably occur.
Btw, this is exactly the reason some people seem to 'click', whereas others don't. With the people who click, you receive implicit confirmation that they interpreted your communications in the way you intended them. With the non-clickers, you always got to repair, which results in feelings of confusion and not being heard or understood.
posted by iamkimiam at 11:56 AM on May 10, 2010 [11 favorites]
You need to decide if your time and happiness with this guy is worth the effort it's going to take to disambiguate the miscommunications that will inevitably occur.
Btw, this is exactly the reason some people seem to 'click', whereas others don't. With the people who click, you receive implicit confirmation that they interpreted your communications in the way you intended them. With the non-clickers, you always got to repair, which results in feelings of confusion and not being heard or understood.
posted by iamkimiam at 11:56 AM on May 10, 2010 [11 favorites]
It's hard to know what a person means over e-mail. He might've thought you meant, "Hey, jerkwad, are you ever going to get on the ball about hanging out with me this weekend????" If there are no other signs that he's a jerk, you might chalk it up to a miscommunication and give him a pass on this one if you want to (though it sounds like you don't).
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:56 AM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:56 AM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Pout away. Five dates in six weeks says, "We'll be seeing one another weekly."
The phrasings are not completely interchangeable. What you wrote suggests the same thing that I would see just from the dating pattern above — weekend dates, that tentative feeling-out (rather then feeling-up) period.
His expected phraseology, "Do you want to get together this weekend?" sounds as if you ought to be waiting on tenterhooks for blessing of his benevolent presence, in that you of course want to get together with him, golly gee, and will he be gracious enough to be light up your life? Stay tuned, viewers!
Alternately, he could simply be using this as an excuse to pull the ripcord and get out of something he finds non-tenable.
Either way, flee with a clear conscience.
posted by adipocere at 11:57 AM on May 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
The phrasings are not completely interchangeable. What you wrote suggests the same thing that I would see just from the dating pattern above — weekend dates, that tentative feeling-out (rather then feeling-up) period.
His expected phraseology, "Do you want to get together this weekend?" sounds as if you ought to be waiting on tenterhooks for blessing of his benevolent presence, in that you of course want to get together with him, golly gee, and will he be gracious enough to be light up your life? Stay tuned, viewers!
Alternately, he could simply be using this as an excuse to pull the ripcord and get out of something he finds non-tenable.
Either way, flee with a clear conscience.
posted by adipocere at 11:57 AM on May 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
What is it about email that makes people take such quick offense?
He sounds like a fool, dump him, meet someone else online, and then quickly move to a phone relationship with this new dude where this kind of thing doesn't happen.
posted by RajahKing at 12:00 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
He sounds like a fool, dump him, meet someone else online, and then quickly move to a phone relationship with this new dude where this kind of thing doesn't happen.
posted by RajahKing at 12:00 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
oh yes! peacheater is right. It's wonderful that you found out about this now than a year from now. Men don't take things literally, yes I have generalized men in this case, but after 5 regular dates, such wording shouldn't 'offend' him. It's just too much drama for anyone that early in the relationship.
If he really used the word, 'offended' to describe his emotional state after reading your email, then you need to find yourself a different guy who is excited to hear from you.
posted by icollectpurses at 12:01 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
If he really used the word, 'offended' to describe his emotional state after reading your email, then you need to find yourself a different guy who is excited to hear from you.
posted by icollectpurses at 12:01 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
i agree with everyone above. run!
posted by elle.jeezy at 12:03 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by elle.jeezy at 12:03 PM on May 10, 2010
Unless you're really into him, run like the wind away from the delicate flower of a man.
posted by Maisie at 12:03 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by Maisie at 12:03 PM on May 10, 2010
It's hard to know what a person means over e-mail. He might've thought you meant, "Hey, jerkwad, are you ever going to get on the ball about hanging out with me this weekend????"
Absolutely true, but I tend to feel like if the dude isn't going to give me the benefit of the doubt that I wasn't being nasty, he's too high maintenance. Who wants to walk on eggshells all the time?
posted by amro at 12:10 PM on May 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
Absolutely true, but I tend to feel like if the dude isn't going to give me the benefit of the doubt that I wasn't being nasty, he's too high maintenance. Who wants to walk on eggshells all the time?
posted by amro at 12:10 PM on May 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
Piling on to say no, you were not presumptuous, and if he did find it offensive I wonder why on earth he would think it was ok to just tell you so in such a blunt manner. As others have said, it's way too much drama so early on. I think you've dodged a bullet here.
posted by different at 12:12 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by different at 12:12 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Read some of these, and be made comfortable in your decision not to speak to this person any more.
posted by Sallyfur at 12:37 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Sallyfur at 12:37 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, this man is clearly a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. Move immediately to another state, change your name, begin a new career, cut off all contact with current friends and family members, and change your hobbies. Remember what kind of car he drives, and if you ever see a similar one repeat this process all over again.
Come on folks, I know it's really easy to push the button and nuke some abstract relationship involving strangers, but we really do seem to be getting out of hand here.
I'm not necessarily defending your guy, who I agree could have handled this better. But as a single and dating guy in his forties (and damn it, that wasn't supposed to happen) I would indeed note the distinction between "would you like to do something this weekend" and "are we doing something this weekend, or are you busy?"
They are in fact not the same thing. The former is nice, friendly, and neutral. I would like to be asked to do something by a pretty girl, even if unable to accept the invitation. The latter absolutely slants the playing field and contains the assumption that, absent some unusual circumstance that takes me away, the default situation is that we will be doing something together. It does represent you making a bit of a claim on his time and attention. Now depending on how things have been going, I might like that idea. But I would definitely notice it, and it would definitely influence my view of how things are going and how you think they're going.
On the other hand, if I weren't ready to go there, I don't think I would have called you on it. If I didn't want to be in that state, I'd simply have begged off, and perhaps kept begging off. I don't think calling you on it the way he did accomplished much. But where I disagree with him is in how he handled the situation, not with his assessment of it.
Although I should also note that, again, as a single and dating guy in his forties and damn it that wasn't supposed to happen, if I've gotten to five dates with someone, and I haven't made some kind of move beyond "ordinary, nonphysical getting to know you," then something strange is going on. I'm not saying you should be sleeping together, though you certainly could be. But by five dates, either one or both of us has decided it's not going anywhere, or I've at least gone for a friendly kiss. Combine the fact that he apparently hasn't with his reaction to you sort of staking a tentative claim, and I'd say signs point to no for your long-term chances.
Why is he still going out with you then? I can only guess that he thinks you might possibly be an option, but he isn't convinced there isn't someone out there he might like more. So he's keeping you on the line while he looks around. That's an unfortunate part of online dating where there's like ten thousand other potential partners out there, more showing up all the time, and few real signals to help you cull out the ones who aren't attracted to you. It's something I'm very careful to resist, but it is a behavior the sites seem to incent.
posted by Naberius at 12:38 PM on May 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
Come on folks, I know it's really easy to push the button and nuke some abstract relationship involving strangers, but we really do seem to be getting out of hand here.
I'm not necessarily defending your guy, who I agree could have handled this better. But as a single and dating guy in his forties (and damn it, that wasn't supposed to happen) I would indeed note the distinction between "would you like to do something this weekend" and "are we doing something this weekend, or are you busy?"
They are in fact not the same thing. The former is nice, friendly, and neutral. I would like to be asked to do something by a pretty girl, even if unable to accept the invitation. The latter absolutely slants the playing field and contains the assumption that, absent some unusual circumstance that takes me away, the default situation is that we will be doing something together. It does represent you making a bit of a claim on his time and attention. Now depending on how things have been going, I might like that idea. But I would definitely notice it, and it would definitely influence my view of how things are going and how you think they're going.
On the other hand, if I weren't ready to go there, I don't think I would have called you on it. If I didn't want to be in that state, I'd simply have begged off, and perhaps kept begging off. I don't think calling you on it the way he did accomplished much. But where I disagree with him is in how he handled the situation, not with his assessment of it.
Although I should also note that, again, as a single and dating guy in his forties and damn it that wasn't supposed to happen, if I've gotten to five dates with someone, and I haven't made some kind of move beyond "ordinary, nonphysical getting to know you," then something strange is going on. I'm not saying you should be sleeping together, though you certainly could be. But by five dates, either one or both of us has decided it's not going anywhere, or I've at least gone for a friendly kiss. Combine the fact that he apparently hasn't with his reaction to you sort of staking a tentative claim, and I'd say signs point to no for your long-term chances.
Why is he still going out with you then? I can only guess that he thinks you might possibly be an option, but he isn't convinced there isn't someone out there he might like more. So he's keeping you on the line while he looks around. That's an unfortunate part of online dating where there's like ten thousand other potential partners out there, more showing up all the time, and few real signals to help you cull out the ones who aren't attracted to you. It's something I'm very careful to resist, but it is a behavior the sites seem to incent.
posted by Naberius at 12:38 PM on May 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
OMG, it could be my ex! He would get annoyed at me for "assuming" things. If you can't assume things, you cannot act as an equal as someone - it is a way to assert control over things. Run now!
posted by meepmeow at 12:39 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by meepmeow at 12:39 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
No, no, no- if he's trying to control how you pose questions to him, that is a big red flag and I would advise ending it. Some people seem to think that's an overreaction to a poorly worded email: wrong, it's what's called a red flag.
There are actual assumptions that are logical situations in which someone would be offended, but this is certainly not one of them.
posted by Eicats at 12:54 PM on May 10, 2010
There are actual assumptions that are logical situations in which someone would be offended, but this is certainly not one of them.
posted by Eicats at 12:54 PM on May 10, 2010
Ignore Naberius who seems to have his own issues going. I don't think this was a question about your speed in physical relationships.
Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who holds grudges over word choice? You've told him you didn't mean to offend and he's still bulldogging about it. Imagine the fights you'll get into over the hidden messages in birthday cards and post-it notes.
Thank you lucky stars the guy tipped his hand after 5 dates.
posted by 26.2 at 12:54 PM on May 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who holds grudges over word choice? You've told him you didn't mean to offend and he's still bulldogging about it. Imagine the fights you'll get into over the hidden messages in birthday cards and post-it notes.
Thank you lucky stars the guy tipped his hand after 5 dates.
posted by 26.2 at 12:54 PM on May 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
Who needs this high school drams when you're in the '40s?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:03 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:03 PM on May 10, 2010
I can certainly see being a little irked by the implication that unless he has other concrete plans that you WILL be seeing each other. However, in my experience, what someone is irked by is less important than how they react to being irked.
Was this a gentle chiding about making presumptions that you have first right of refusal on his free time? Or was it a more poorly voiced objection?
This may be a first sign, and if you're bothered that he'd react that way then dump him. Five dates is early enough that you can still be discovering that you don't think similarly enough about certain things - like your time together - and just cut someone loose without a lot of drama.
But if you have some uncertainty about it then maybe this is an opportunity to find out how capable you two are of working out a disagreement. Lord knows you're going to have plenty of opportunity in any relationship to use those skills. You can say, hey, I'm a little put out that you had that kind of reaction. Let's talk about this and see if we can't understand each other rather than just being irked.
posted by phearlez at 1:07 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Was this a gentle chiding about making presumptions that you have first right of refusal on his free time? Or was it a more poorly voiced objection?
This may be a first sign, and if you're bothered that he'd react that way then dump him. Five dates is early enough that you can still be discovering that you don't think similarly enough about certain things - like your time together - and just cut someone loose without a lot of drama.
But if you have some uncertainty about it then maybe this is an opportunity to find out how capable you two are of working out a disagreement. Lord knows you're going to have plenty of opportunity in any relationship to use those skills. You can say, hey, I'm a little put out that you had that kind of reaction. Let's talk about this and see if we can't understand each other rather than just being irked.
posted by phearlez at 1:07 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
I can certainly see being a little irked by the implication that unless he has other concrete plans that you WILL be seeing each other.
I think perhaps that's the reason that I don't see it as a presumptuous email - I don't read the OP's message in that way (though others clearly do). To me, "Shall we get together, or are you busy?" doesn't really mean "Unless you already have a firm appointment, we'll be spending time together" - that 'firm appointment' could just as well be plans to veg out on the couch and watch the big game, take a nap, stare out the window, whatever. So for me it's just a different way of asking, "Do you want to do something this weekend?", possibly even in a softer way that allows the respondee more of an out if they're not up for it for whatever reason.
The guy concerned obviously interpreted the choice of language very differently, which is fine, but to make a big deal about being offended and finding it presumptuous would tell me that we were not really compatible. Just my 2 cents.
posted by different at 1:25 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think perhaps that's the reason that I don't see it as a presumptuous email - I don't read the OP's message in that way (though others clearly do). To me, "Shall we get together, or are you busy?" doesn't really mean "Unless you already have a firm appointment, we'll be spending time together" - that 'firm appointment' could just as well be plans to veg out on the couch and watch the big game, take a nap, stare out the window, whatever. So for me it's just a different way of asking, "Do you want to do something this weekend?", possibly even in a softer way that allows the respondee more of an out if they're not up for it for whatever reason.
The guy concerned obviously interpreted the choice of language very differently, which is fine, but to make a big deal about being offended and finding it presumptuous would tell me that we were not really compatible. Just my 2 cents.
posted by different at 1:25 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
"Anyhow, I was wondering if we were going to get together this weekend or if [guy had other things to do] "
I had to read almost to the bottom to understand how anyone could have read this as presumptuous, but now I see how maybe it could be read like that. But at first reading, it sounded the exact opposite of presumptuous -- a little feeler indicating that you want to hang out, but not if he's busy because you wouldn't want to presume he'll cancel his plans to hang out with you!
But yeah, he sounds like a Mr. Sensitivity I used to date. It's not worth the constant self-editing. Just move along.
posted by motsque at 1:28 PM on May 10, 2010
I had to read almost to the bottom to understand how anyone could have read this as presumptuous, but now I see how maybe it could be read like that. But at first reading, it sounded the exact opposite of presumptuous -- a little feeler indicating that you want to hang out, but not if he's busy because you wouldn't want to presume he'll cancel his plans to hang out with you!
But yeah, he sounds like a Mr. Sensitivity I used to date. It's not worth the constant self-editing. Just move along.
posted by motsque at 1:28 PM on May 10, 2010
They are in fact not the same thing. The former is nice, friendly, and neutral. I would like to be asked to do something by a pretty girl, even if unable to accept the invitation. The latter absolutely slants the playing field and contains the assumption that, absent some unusual circumstance that takes me away, the default situation is that we will be doing something together. It does represent you making a bit of a claim on his time and attention.
I can see Naberius' point here and agree that there is a slight difference between the two phrasings. But, if after six weeks/five dates,
* he seems to be parsing your words very closely looking for even the smallest sign of "presumptuousness"
* he tells you in a not very polite way that he thinks you're making assumptions and directs you as to how to phrase things in the future
* and finally and most importantly, he's not ready to let you make the smallest of claims on his time and attention
Then I say he's not worth your time and attention.
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 1:28 PM on May 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
I can see Naberius' point here and agree that there is a slight difference between the two phrasings. But, if after six weeks/five dates,
* he seems to be parsing your words very closely looking for even the smallest sign of "presumptuousness"
* he tells you in a not very polite way that he thinks you're making assumptions and directs you as to how to phrase things in the future
* and finally and most importantly, he's not ready to let you make the smallest of claims on his time and attention
Then I say he's not worth your time and attention.
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 1:28 PM on May 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
So I sent him an email on Friday saying, "Anyhow, I was wondering if we were going to get together this weekend or if [guy had other things to do] " The next day he called and told me that he'd been offended that I "presumed" that way.
Yes, presumably (ha!), he felt that your phrasing indicated that you felt that there are two, distinct options available, and that his feelings about how he would like to spend his weekend, including the possibility that he might like some time to relax alone, are moot. Either a) You and he get together or b) He has other plans and is therefore unavailable.
This is a ridiculously oversensitive position to take with someone you don't know very well. If you had a long-term relationship in which you tended to be controlling and make plans on his behalf, sure, I could see how this sort of phrasing might start to grate. New person, you've gotta give the benefit of the doubt that it might just be a phrasing thing.
If this is just a weird pet peeve of his (hey, we all have 'em) then he should have just said "okay, I have this weird pet peeve that makes me touchy -- maybe it's because my childhood was overstructured -- but just ask me if I'm free without, like, presuming that some kind of plans are required, okay?
posted by desuetude at 1:49 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yes, presumably (ha!), he felt that your phrasing indicated that you felt that there are two, distinct options available, and that his feelings about how he would like to spend his weekend, including the possibility that he might like some time to relax alone, are moot. Either a) You and he get together or b) He has other plans and is therefore unavailable.
This is a ridiculously oversensitive position to take with someone you don't know very well. If you had a long-term relationship in which you tended to be controlling and make plans on his behalf, sure, I could see how this sort of phrasing might start to grate. New person, you've gotta give the benefit of the doubt that it might just be a phrasing thing.
If this is just a weird pet peeve of his (hey, we all have 'em) then he should have just said "okay, I have this weird pet peeve that makes me touchy -- maybe it's because my childhood was overstructured -- but just ask me if I'm free without, like, presuming that some kind of plans are required, okay?
posted by desuetude at 1:49 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't think you were presumptuous, but good grief I don't agree with the people who are saying get rid of the guy just because of this. I agree with what Naberius is saying--five dates seems like kind of a lot. But wow, sever contact with someone due to one relatively minor miscommunication?
posted by massysett at 1:59 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by massysett at 1:59 PM on May 10, 2010
Well, 26.2, we all have issues. I really think I kept mine out of play here and, as a single man in the same age bracket as the OP (I'm not totally convinced that's significant, but she specified their ages, so I figured I'd note mine is similar) who is actively dating but looking for something serious and long term, I thought my take on the situation might be of value to her. If it's not, I'll cheerfully refund her money.
That take remains that, whether deliberately or not, she sent a signal with that phrasing. If I were interested in taking things farther with someone, I would view that signal as very definite encouragement. If I weren't, I might see it as a red flag, an indication that she was getting ahead of where I wanted to be. I would like to think I could also consider the possibility that she just worded her message poorly, but to be honest, we go through every word someone says so carefully looking for signals we can use that I'm not sure I could resist interpreting that.
And I agree that he handled it badly, and that he's sent a powerful signal in his own right. Other responders' phrasing of giving the OP the "benefit of the doubt" says it well, I think. At the very least he should have done that.
As for speed, that's a side note that, again, may or may not be useful to the OP but as another data point from someone in the same statistical cohort as her subject, I thought it might be.
Terribly sorry if I've offended you.
posted by Naberius at 2:13 PM on May 10, 2010
That take remains that, whether deliberately or not, she sent a signal with that phrasing. If I were interested in taking things farther with someone, I would view that signal as very definite encouragement. If I weren't, I might see it as a red flag, an indication that she was getting ahead of where I wanted to be. I would like to think I could also consider the possibility that she just worded her message poorly, but to be honest, we go through every word someone says so carefully looking for signals we can use that I'm not sure I could resist interpreting that.
And I agree that he handled it badly, and that he's sent a powerful signal in his own right. Other responders' phrasing of giving the OP the "benefit of the doubt" says it well, I think. At the very least he should have done that.
As for speed, that's a side note that, again, may or may not be useful to the OP but as another data point from someone in the same statistical cohort as her subject, I thought it might be.
Terribly sorry if I've offended you.
posted by Naberius at 2:13 PM on May 10, 2010
It sounds passive aggressive to me. The implication is that you have a monopoly on my free time -- you set up a false dichotomy between seeing you or being busy with other things.
posted by thesmophoron at 2:30 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by thesmophoron at 2:30 PM on May 10, 2010
I don't know what five dates means really, but I don't think this was your fault. This dude sounds high strung. Look for good-natured instead.
posted by anniecat at 2:33 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by anniecat at 2:33 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, he may have had a reason to be offended at your question if he misunderstood it (though I'm not sure how), but he should have given you the benefit of the doubt. You know what people people who don't give the benefit of the doubt are like.
posted by monkeymadness at 3:40 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by monkeymadness at 3:40 PM on May 10, 2010
my ex-boyfriend was like this. i agree with everyone that says run...
i don't know this guy, obviously, but my ex could take anything that i said and turn it around into something awful. he often used the word "presumptuous" in perfectly normal conversations about taking out the trash. BECAUSE HE WAS CRAZY. and by asking if he was going to take out the trash like he had said or if i should do it, i was being an asshole when all i really wanted was to know whether i should and didn't care. in other words: he was overly sensitive about every little thing when he wanted to be and it was the most aggravating experience.
maybe this guy isn't like that, but i would be wary.
posted by itsacover at 4:03 PM on May 10, 2010
i don't know this guy, obviously, but my ex could take anything that i said and turn it around into something awful. he often used the word "presumptuous" in perfectly normal conversations about taking out the trash. BECAUSE HE WAS CRAZY. and by asking if he was going to take out the trash like he had said or if i should do it, i was being an asshole when all i really wanted was to know whether i should and didn't care. in other words: he was overly sensitive about every little thing when he wanted to be and it was the most aggravating experience.
maybe this guy isn't like that, but i would be wary.
posted by itsacover at 4:03 PM on May 10, 2010
I guess I'm a little sensitive... Having dated people who have been very possessive & domineering, if I received an email from a new love interest with the wording you describe it would likely raise my self-protective antennae. That said, I wouldn't tell the person in question that he had *offended* me, I would just... be especially observant in future exchanges and a bit more cautious about getting more serious with this person until my concerns were laid to rest. I'm not sure if that makes your guy a better communicator than I am, or a nuttier fruitcake than I am.
posted by pammeke at 4:32 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by pammeke at 4:32 PM on May 10, 2010
ok, so everyone here is probably right BUT!
devil's advocate time:
could he be kidding? sarcasm doesn't always come across in written communication. I would find out if he's kidding, and if he's not kick his motherfuckin' ass to the curb.
posted by shmegegge at 4:34 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
devil's advocate time:
could he be kidding? sarcasm doesn't always come across in written communication. I would find out if he's kidding, and if he's not kick his motherfuckin' ass to the curb.
posted by shmegegge at 4:34 PM on May 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, what you said could be read as presumptuous, or it could be read as completely innocent. Surely, if you aren't with each other, he is doing something else, whether that is napping, errand running, or climbing Mt. Everest. Getting all huffy over fairly benign phrasing suggests he either has some sort of sensitivity/commitment issues or he is looking for a way out. In either case, you are better off without this kind of nonsense, and in a roundabout, unintentional way he has done you a huge favor by tipping you off, so you can avoid any further ridiculousness. No one should have to carefully parse their phrasing when they aren't in the midst of a emotional, high stakes discussion, which making weekend plans really shouldn't be.
posted by katemcd at 4:38 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by katemcd at 4:38 PM on May 10, 2010
Wow. I really can't believe all the RUN CRAZY RUN in this thread. We have no idea what was said to him, why he reacted the way he did, or even if the way he reacted was coming from a crazy place. No offense to the OP here with that. But it *really easily* could be a simple miscommunication.
For example, if OP said: ""Anyhow, I was wondering if we were going to get together this weekend or if you were going to go on a date with someone else/visit your mother/pick up your child/have dinner with your ex/do something more exciting than hanging out with me instead/have a fling/have any time for me/do whatever it is that you do."
Any of these things could be met with a response like (or unlike), "Hey there, you assumed that's what I was doing, when that's not what I said. I want to hang out with you and if you want to hang out with me, just say so."
Which the OP could then interpret as having wrong phrasing and making an assumption.
I'm making shit up there. Point is, we have NO CLUE what went down, other than there was a miscommunication. I think it's actually to the dude's credit that he picked up the phone and attempted to clear things up, including a statement of how he felt about the interaction. Without knowing what was put forth on either end, it is really hard to make a judgment other than the OP saying, "Hey, my interpretation of this interaction was X; was my interpretation of the interaction X?" We don't actually have enough info to make our own interpretations about the situation. It's a bit circular and I'm baffled at all the hate.
Again, no offense to the OP. But the end of that statement to him is really crucial. As is his actual words back to you. Without it, we don't know the context and if this is territory where one or both involved are overreacting.
posted by iamkimiam at 5:08 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
For example, if OP said: ""Anyhow, I was wondering if we were going to get together this weekend or if you were going to go on a date with someone else/visit your mother/pick up your child/have dinner with your ex/do something more exciting than hanging out with me instead/have a fling/have any time for me/do whatever it is that you do."
Any of these things could be met with a response like (or unlike), "Hey there, you assumed that's what I was doing, when that's not what I said. I want to hang out with you and if you want to hang out with me, just say so."
Which the OP could then interpret as having wrong phrasing and making an assumption.
I'm making shit up there. Point is, we have NO CLUE what went down, other than there was a miscommunication. I think it's actually to the dude's credit that he picked up the phone and attempted to clear things up, including a statement of how he felt about the interaction. Without knowing what was put forth on either end, it is really hard to make a judgment other than the OP saying, "Hey, my interpretation of this interaction was X; was my interpretation of the interaction X?" We don't actually have enough info to make our own interpretations about the situation. It's a bit circular and I'm baffled at all the hate.
Again, no offense to the OP. But the end of that statement to him is really crucial. As is his actual words back to you. Without it, we don't know the context and if this is territory where one or both involved are overreacting.
posted by iamkimiam at 5:08 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
One thing I think is certain: this man does not very much like you. Otherwise, he could not have responded this way, no matter what you "presumed." So, no, don't pursue the relationship--there isn't one to pursue. That's one reason you hadn't heard about a weekend get-together by Friday.
Anyway, either he's a coy little darling playing hard-to-get, or he's a control freak. Be glad you found out early.
posted by uans at 6:02 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Anyway, either he's a coy little darling playing hard-to-get, or he's a control freak. Be glad you found out early.
posted by uans at 6:02 PM on May 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
OP, it sounds like what you said was fine ... I wouldn't have read it as presumptuous, and I don't think it's rude or inappropriate or anything like that. It certainly *sounds* like your date was overreacting. Even if you were being rude ... calling someone out on being rude is even WORSE than the original rudeness!
However, I would be interested to know if you ever have the same kind of miscommunication over the phone or in person. I have found that there are some people (close friends and family members included) that I simply cannot converse with over email or IM because we completely misinterpret each other's tone/intent/point. I wonder if maybe he just misinterpreted your message and is not really a total psycho after all. I mean, he might be. But he might just not be good at interpreting tone over email.
So, if he seemed worth it, I'd give him a second chance and just try discussing this in person to see if it was a misunderstanding or if you get any more red flags that he might be a nutter. However, if you weren't really that nuts about him to begin with, I'd say cut him loose and find someone you get along with better.
posted by tastybrains at 6:38 PM on May 10, 2010
However, I would be interested to know if you ever have the same kind of miscommunication over the phone or in person. I have found that there are some people (close friends and family members included) that I simply cannot converse with over email or IM because we completely misinterpret each other's tone/intent/point. I wonder if maybe he just misinterpreted your message and is not really a total psycho after all. I mean, he might be. But he might just not be good at interpreting tone over email.
So, if he seemed worth it, I'd give him a second chance and just try discussing this in person to see if it was a misunderstanding or if you get any more red flags that he might be a nutter. However, if you weren't really that nuts about him to begin with, I'd say cut him loose and find someone you get along with better.
posted by tastybrains at 6:38 PM on May 10, 2010
run! i say, run!
posted by elle.jeezy at 6:49 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by elle.jeezy at 6:49 PM on May 10, 2010
I see a difference between the two phrasings. I would have privately wondered a bit at the way you phrased it, but I wouldn't have said anything. The fact that he reacted the way he did... eh, cut him loose. Five dates is too early for petty drama.
posted by studioaudience at 10:38 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by studioaudience at 10:38 PM on May 10, 2010
I do understand what it's like to be the one who overreacts and who is misunderstood sometimes, so I have some sympathy for what Naberius said, but nobody should be offended at the way you phrased your question. He shouldn't be so prickly about such a little thing. That sort of communication is a problem. If he has something he needs to tell you about how he feels after five dates, to bring up his offense at a slight of yours is just a self-centered way to go about it, and it's not conducive to understanding or compromise. That is indeed a bad sign so early on. You could offer him a gesture in the direction of communicating about it like adults, but if he's still acting like a child then that's just the beginning of what you'll always be dealing with, and you should probably run quickly.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:59 PM on May 10, 2010
posted by krinklyfig at 10:59 PM on May 10, 2010
* he seems to be parsing your words very closely looking for even the smallest sign of "presumptuousness"
I can't tell by reading this whether or not he looked closely at the words, but OP was being presumptuous.
It's okay, I imagine after six weeks she should be able to be a bit presumptuous. This guy, however, doesn't enjoy that. So he's honest enough to tell OP what the problem is (for him). He could have just stopped communicating with her and leave her wondering, "What did I do?". Okay. This is what you did. Maybe it's ridiculous to the OP (and everyone on Metafilter) but it's clearly a "red flag" to him.
He was forthright. I'd give him another chance.
posted by marimeko at 2:42 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can't tell by reading this whether or not he looked closely at the words, but OP was being presumptuous.
It's okay, I imagine after six weeks she should be able to be a bit presumptuous. This guy, however, doesn't enjoy that. So he's honest enough to tell OP what the problem is (for him). He could have just stopped communicating with her and leave her wondering, "What did I do?". Okay. This is what you did. Maybe it's ridiculous to the OP (and everyone on Metafilter) but it's clearly a "red flag" to him.
He was forthright. I'd give him another chance.
posted by marimeko at 2:42 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
marimeko makes a good point -- he WAS forthright about this bothering him. But I personally would not give this guy a second chance, because I would not want to be in a relationship with a person I had to treat as delicately and deferentially as this gentleman requires.
If you really like this guy and you don't mind watching everything you do and say lest it offend him, then you should stay with him. But if you're not down for that, cut him loose.
posted by palomar at 7:12 AM on May 11, 2010
If you really like this guy and you don't mind watching everything you do and say lest it offend him, then you should stay with him. But if you're not down for that, cut him loose.
posted by palomar at 7:12 AM on May 11, 2010
could he be kidding? sarcasm doesn't always come across in written communication.
He didn't say it in written communication -- it was a phone call.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:37 AM on May 11, 2010
He didn't say it in written communication -- it was a phone call.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:37 AM on May 11, 2010
As my friend's dad would say, his take on that is crazier than a shit house rat! However, were you able to clarify? Email can be misleading but if he still sounded miffed after you explained it, GTFO. Sorry for the disappointment.
posted by ShadePlant at 11:31 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by ShadePlant at 11:31 AM on May 11, 2010
Maybe he was having a real bad day. If you like him, give him an opportunity to redeem himself. otherwise, move on.
posted by theora55 at 2:15 PM on May 11, 2010
posted by theora55 at 2:15 PM on May 11, 2010
Maybe he was having a real good day, the other times you were with him. If you like yourself, don't date assholes.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:01 PM on May 11, 2010
posted by IAmBroom at 10:01 PM on May 11, 2010
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