Nice person, mean drunk.

January 14, 2010 8:46 AM

On occasion I say mean, horrible things to my boyfriend, and only when I've been drinking. Why? Where is this coming from?

Last weekend my boyfriend and I got dinner. It was great, we both had fun. I had about three glasses of wine. Then we went to another bar and had two more glasses of wine each. This was enough to make me very tired and sleepy, so then we went home and fell into bed. The next morning my boyfriend asked me why I'd mentioned details that seemed deliberately barbed to hurt him (like, egads, revealing what I was going to get him for his birthday. What? Who does that? And then when he said another girlfriend had already gotten him something quite similar before, I declared I would no longer get it for him. Classy.) I'd somehow forgotten most of the conversation until he reminded me and then it all came rushing back in this sickening wave. From the outside it looks as if I'd been harboring these mean thoughts and alcohol only brought them to the surface, except I don't think any of those things at all.

I've done this before. It happens every once in a while after I go just over my limit, from tipsy to drunk: my brain shuts down its "basic human empathy" section and I become a mean, petty person.

It feels like I have a split personality, and the brown-outs don't help. Obviously I'm quitting drinking until this gets resolved, but I'm wondering what in the world is going on with me. My relationship is amazing and I'm so happy with my boyfriend. It's by far the best relationship I've ever had and he's my favorite person in the world. So why is it that I become a horrible person every once in a while after drinking alcohol, but definitely not every time I get drunk? We're somewhat frequent wine-with-dinner people (maybe 3 nights a week), and occasional weekend warriors, and it definitely doesn't happen every time I drink. If anyone else did this, how did you stop? Is this a sign I'm an alcoholic or just a terrible drunk?

Details: 26/F. My work has been very stressful but things calmed down starting last weekend. We live together, and have been dating for a year. Other than this, we don't really fight. My mom was an alcoholic when I was little but has since made a halfhearted recovery.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (39 answers total)

It happens because alcohol lowers your inhibitions. Your inner filter is no longer working so you're not thinking about what you're saying. It's not really a problem, it just means you can't drink so much.

FWIW, 5 glasses of wine is an entire bottle. You're not just getting drunk, you're blacking out. Do you drink this much on your wine-and-dinner deals 3 nights a week? You need to cut back, and that will solve your problems.

Also, I don't see any distinction between an alcoholic and a "terrible drunk."
posted by InsanePenguin at 8:51 AM on January 14, 2010 [3 favorites]

Alcohol and other intoxicants affect people in different ways, and being mean, obnoxious or boorish is a pretty common side effect of alcohol's lowered inhibitions. I've known lots of mean drunks, and do my best to avoid them.

I don't think it indicates that something is wrong with you, but if you want people to like you, perhaps you should temper your drinking to one glass of wine at dinner, rather than 3.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 8:52 AM on January 14, 2010

You're a mean drunk. Stop getting drunk.
posted by RussHy at 8:53 AM on January 14, 2010 [22 favorites]

You might read this AskMe.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:55 AM on January 14, 2010

This is why I don't drink much, and especially not when I'm out at a bar. I find that my personality regresses and my motives become all warped, and I make questionable decisions. Not all the time, but often enough where I don't mind taking preventative measures.

Five glasses of wine is a lot of alcohol. Drink one and savor it more.

I'm sure there are ways in which you can explore what's going on deep inside you, but it really, really may be as easy as not drinking, or limiting yourself to just one drink.
posted by hermitosis at 8:55 AM on January 14, 2010

It is a myth that one's "real" personality comes out while intoxicated, because your "real" personality includes many things INCLUDING your inhibitions. Inhibitions are something we are always talking about wanting to shed, but they come from our values, morals, ethics, and charater and are there for a reason, they are an integral part of who we are. Alcohol diminishes inhibitions. What comes out is not the "real" you but a distortion of you. It is the alcohol talking, not you. Some people genetically seem to have more issues with this. Nothing to do with strength of character, willpower, etc, just different biology in terms of reactions to alcohol. People who experience this should probably avoid alcohol. It is not predictable when this kicks in.........counting your drinks won't work. It depends on factors like how much sleep you've had; how much, what, and when you've eaten; where you are in your menstrual cycle, other medications you are taking (including antidepressants), and many factors that have not yet been identified. We now know that women metabolize alcohol less efficiently from men APART from body weight issues. You are not a "horrible person". However, sounds like you experience a horrible reaction to alcohol which is a warning sign. Consider it like an allergy. Not everyone gets deathly ill from eating peanuts. Those who do...it's not their fault. But they certainly need to avoid peanuts! If they continue to eat peanuts knowingly despite the reaction, that is a choice, and not a very good one! what is referred to as alcoholism has many different versions: those who need to drink daily, those who are binge drinkers, and those who may not be alcohol dependent but when they do drink they have horrible reactions with unwanted reprecussions. The label of alcoholism is debatable and not very meaningful. What is meaningful is to make healthy decisions based on how alcohol is effecting the quality of your life. Good Luck!
posted by Lylo at 9:02 AM on January 14, 2010 [41 favorites]

Dear Anonymous,

You do not need to quit drinking "until this gets resolved" – you just need to quit drinking, full stop. That way you will not say nasty drunken things to the people around you, wake up sick, and be filled with shame that causes you to post anonymous help letters on the internet.

That is all.

All the best,

Mr. Remy.
posted by mr. remy at 9:03 AM on January 14, 2010 [5 favorites]

I completely agree with what Lylo says.
posted by hermitosis at 9:03 AM on January 14, 2010

This isn't something that you're going to be able to fix while not drinking - at least, not if this is fundamentally about your relationship with alcohol. Remember, that's what alcoholism is. It isn't measured in quantity*, but quality. If you're losing control and going way over your limit and saying nasty things to people you care about, that's pretty poor quality drinking. The next question is whether you can effectively control or monitor your drinking.

I was able to... for a while. And then it was right back to where I was before. And even when I was engaged in controlled drinking, it was like a battle. It took me a lot of time and energy and heartache and trial and error to realize that I lack the control to drink safely and normally, and as a result I don't drink.

Good luck controlling your drinking. If you find that you can't, I assure you there are many of us out here who will be happy to help you stop if you need the assistance.

*Though, quantity can be a good indicator, it's more of a screening tool than a diagnostic tool. There are people who drink a lot, but can choose to take or leave alcohol. And there are people who don't drink nearly as much as other drunks but have no control over it. I was a person who didn't drink nearly as much as anyone else - but I had absolutely no control over how much, or when or how I drank. I just never knew what would happen when I drank. Maybe I'd have one, maybe I'd keep going until I was violently ill.
posted by greekphilosophy at 9:07 AM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

If you're a nasty person while drunk, either surround yourself with people who don't care, or stop drinking so much. And for the love of all that is holy, don't deal with your stress over the issue by drinking.
posted by mikeh at 9:11 AM on January 14, 2010

Lots of people are mean drunks and shouldn't get drunk.

However, your example story sounds more like your boyfriend is a mean drunk than you are. Telling someone drunkenly of a surprise ahead of time doesn't really count as mean. It ruins the surprise, sure, but I fail to see how that is a "barb" to hurt him. I think his response was a lot meaner to be totally truthful, and I'd probably react like you did. Drunk or sober.

In conclusion, maybe you both need to put down the bottle.
posted by shownomercy at 9:11 AM on January 14, 2010 [6 favorites]

Are you angry at him for something? Has he done something?
posted by anniecat at 9:14 AM on January 14, 2010

that seemed deliberately barbed to hurt him (like, egads, revealing what I was going to get him for his birthday. What? Who does that? And then when he said another girlfriend had already gotten him something quite similar before, I declared I would no longer get it for him. Classy.

Okay, I don't see how revealing a birthday gift is that painful for someone. Revealing that an ex girlfriend had gotten him something like that -- um, ouch.

I would have reacted the same way, sober.
posted by anniecat at 9:16 AM on January 14, 2010 [10 favorites]

Drink less. As said above, it's about your inhibitions. Some people make happy, funny drunks, some not so much.

[I happen to think that your drunk self is a little indicative of your much older, going slightly doolally self, but that's another matter]

At this point I fear my advice - perhaps due to my cultural heritage as a Brit rather than American - diverges from the "alcohol is a problem for you" school of thought. I disagree. Too much alcohol is a problem for you as it is for anyone. For most people enjoying alcohol is about finding your limits, not getting all wound up and seeing it as a sinister gateway to a worse version of you.

Your meaness tells you where your limit is. I have a couple of friends with similar conditions. One, in particular, reined his drinking back in for some time and only increased it when he was comfortable that he knew when he was entering the kind of drunkeness that made him a prize prat. Embrace your limits, drink for fun, enjoy the days you don't drink and make sure you get your bf a cracking birthday present.
posted by MuffinMan at 9:21 AM on January 14, 2010 [3 favorites]

Could it be the wine? Different types of alcohol have different effects on mood in my experience. I avoid wine (red or white) as it makes me grumpy - my GF agrees - but this isn't the case with beer or liquor (my GF would also attest to that).

A former GF of mine would become very mean-spirited under the influence of wine - specifically red wine. Any other type of alcohol, would lighten her mood.

Unfortunately, a brief google search turned up no supporting evidence to my claims - just something to think about.
posted by alrightokay at 9:29 AM on January 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

I don't know that quitting drinking entirely is necessary. I mean, yeah, it will be the most effective way of making sure this doesn't happen again, but there can be a middle ground. I had a number of very similar experiences in my mid-20s, and the biggest contributing factors to Terrible Drunk Nights were 1) quantity/quality of food eaten before/during drinking and 2) hormones (I was skipping my period on birth control and it turned me into a crazy, miserable person... add to that a couple too many drinks and it was a nightmare). The hardest thing to get a handle on is at what point in the evening of drinks do you realize you can't have just one more glass- you're out having fun, talking, and wine is deceptively easy to miss that No More! point until it's too late. For me, it helps to start my evening of wine drinking with an awareness that I need to know when that last glass is going to be a bad idea. That, together with age and life circumstances, have pretty much completely wiped out Terrible Drunk Nights.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 9:33 AM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

I agree with anniecat and shownomercy - I don't see where in your story you were mean. You got drunk and spilled a secret - seems perfectly normal to me. His response was insensitive, again, not all that unusual when you've had a few too many.

You don't need to quit drinking, just drink less and drink slower, if you can't drink slower, alternate soft drinks/water with your wine.
posted by missmagenta at 9:36 AM on January 14, 2010

I had a girlfriend who would do this, but on a much more extreme level. Yelling at me, calling me all sorts of names really for no reason, but was generally pretty sweet when she was sober. I told her I didn't mind if she drank as long as she didn't drink to the point of becoming a raving, and sometimes violent person. Long story short, she didn't and I dumped her.
posted by Scientifik at 9:37 AM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think that those imagining the boyfriend was mean instead are picking the wrong scab -- we need to give both the poster and her bf the benefit of the doubt. The important thing is that she is uncomfortable with her behavior, which she barely remembers, and I think there is a lot of good advice here in that regard.
posted by hermitosis at 9:42 AM on January 14, 2010 [4 favorites]

One thing to think about is whether this only happens when you get drunk, or whether it happens in heated arguments too. Alcohol does lower your inhibitions, but those inhibitions could be blocking you from saying what you truly feel, or just as easily blocking you from doing something really fun/interesting short term that would have unfortunate long term consequences. For example, I could easily see how getting a tattoo of your boyfriend on a highly visible part of your body would sound great while drunk, but a clearer head would identify potential long term issues with such a plan. So maybe you just didn't like his attitude that night, or maybe you had the sudden inspiration to be conspiratorial with him and then got annoyed at his response and said the first thing that came to mind, or any variation. The bottom line is that the emotional source of those remarks could have been transitory in nature, and not really tied to anything concrete.
However, going back to my comment about , heated arguments, if the same types of comments come out when you're emotionally upset, then chances are there is probably a more deeply rooted reason for that behavior.
posted by forforf at 9:46 AM on January 14, 2010

If you had three glasses of wine at dinner, that's three glasses in a relatively short period of time--so your judgment was muddled because you were already drunk. So you drank more.

You got on the rollercoaster and went WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. So you need to either learn how to catch yourself before you get on the rollercoaster, or you have to stop drinking if you can't do that.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:47 AM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Getting drunk is a want, not a necessity.

Drunk driving can kill people. Drunken conversations can kill relationships.

Water is wet. Grow up. If something's bad for you, stop doing it. If some personality flaw bugs you about him, bring it up and compromise a solution.

I applaud you asking for help and making the effort to improve your relationships. Keep thinking positively, lovingly, logically. Peace.
posted by Zeker at 9:52 AM on January 14, 2010 [3 favorites]

Like others here, I would be hesitant to go with the assumption that in your drunken state you are revealing deep-set feelings or views. More likely, drunkenness makes you (and probably your boyfriend as well) forget basic courtesies and considerations, which quickly escalate in the climate of amplified feelings and emotional sensitivity that alcohol provides.

I think alcohol is seen as being revealing of inner truths about people in part because we may be more likely to act on feelings or perspectives we already have. E.g. you've had a crush on somebody for a long time but couldn't admit it until you got drunk. I think people actually coming to personal revelations when they are drunk is fairly rare.

I'd be really interested in any evidence to alrightokay's claims. I've heard the same thing a lot, and though I haven't experienced it in any systematic way myself, I don't find it hard to believe.
posted by ropeladder at 9:57 AM on January 14, 2010

On the other hand, I wouldn't worry too much that, deep down, you really feel these things about your bf. I could be that you just enjoy being mean for it's own sake, the humor of it, and let yourself do it when you're drunk. Do you enjoy dialog in movies that are kind of barbed, the "oh, snap" comebacks, etc?

I used to work in a place where that kind of verbal sparring was normal (even not drunk.) Although we were great friends, you wouldn't have known by eavesdropping on conversations. I can really appreciate the art of the most succinct, direct, deep verbal stab possible and have a lot of practice coming up with them. Luckily, I used to hang around people that appreciated the same thing when I was drunk, so no problem. I can see how, being drunk around the wrong crowd could lead to foot-in-mouth pretty easily.

Now, I find that kind of atmosphere kind of tedious and would rather be in a more overtly friendly situation. I find that I'm not so big on the snark, and consequently not so quick to say something like that, even drunk.

So it doesn't have to be "deep down I secretly hate my BF OMG."
posted by ctmf at 9:57 AM on January 14, 2010

I agree with just about all of the comments above, but here is what I immediately thought when I read your post.

Don't beat yourself up over this. Yes, alcohol lowers your inhibitions and makes you say silly things sometimes. But telling someone what you're going to get them for their birthday is REALLY not being a mean drunk. A mean drunk is someone who shouts abuse at people, picks fights, punches walls, or punches people, or worse.

Frankly, I think your boyfriend was a bit of an arse for asking you why you said things the next day. You seem to be a decent person with a conscience, so him reminding you of silly things you said when drunk seems a bit mean to me.

(For context, I admit I drink way too much, and sometimes say stupid things to my friends. But usually they know I just said it because I was drunk, didn't really mean it, and they let it slide - I do the same with them. That's one of the reasons we're friends)

In summary, what you said doesn't sound that mean to me. If you can't cope with it, drink less.
posted by Diag at 10:12 AM on January 14, 2010

I think revealing a surprise gift shows poor judgment rather than "meanness"... you may be a bit hard on yourself. And yes, alcohol makes people do or say things they sometimes later regret -- something that seemed funny at the time that wasn't.. but there is a whole range of things to regret -- spilling something on the couch vs telling a rambling joke vs cheating on your partner may all stem from alcohol usage, but are pretty far removed from each other on the scale of "bad ideas I later regret".

I woudl suspect that you are being overly harsh on yourself because you don't want to become an alcoholic like your mother. Which is understandable. A simple way to do this with your bf might be to say, look, we only have one bottle of wine (to share) with dinner one weeknight, and again on the weekend. That will limit both of you to a couple of glasses of wine in a given sitting, which is hardly a lot.

I agree with what was said above -- drinking is all about what is best for you, rather than arbitrary lines. If the arbitrary numbers I gave don't work for you, don't do them. But the point is to pick something that contains a built in limit that prevents you from getting to a point you later regret.
posted by modernnomad at 10:16 AM on January 14, 2010

I think that those imagining the boyfriend was mean instead are picking the wrong scab

I only said what I said because I wondered if her boyfriend is making her feel worse about it than she needs to. If he's beating her over the head with "Look what an awful person you are" and "a good girlfriend doesn't do that" then I would be concerned that she's being really hard on herself because he's making her feel like what she did is actually worse than what it really is. Why does she have to feel so bad?
posted by anniecat at 10:20 AM on January 14, 2010

um, anniecat, a good girlfriend (boyfriend, husband, wife, paramour) kinda definitionally doesn't "shut down [their] "basic human empathy" section [to] become a mean, petty person" when they drink too much. i think the OP should feel bad for this, and is taking a good step to change it.
posted by mr. remy at 10:25 AM on January 14, 2010

Red wine makes me absolutely hostile. Within one or two glasses I'm raging (even when alone) and I get so pissed off I just go to bed.

White wine, however, makes me incredibly giggly and genuinely happy. I don't usually drink beer, but when I do it just relaxes me. Hard alcohol usually just gives me a minor "whoo I'm drunk!" for about an hour or so and then tends to make me feel ill, so I go to sleep.

That said, I can understand being mildly upset with someone spoiling my birthday present while intoxicated.. and being drunk/put off about it so much that I'd make a mean-spirited/yeah well you're not the first one remark about an ex. However, I don't think it's appropriate in the least.

I can also imagine being so drunk that I felt like it was okay to tell someone what I was getting them because their approval of said gift was incredibly important to me and really I was just trying to make sure that they'd like it. Does this sound like it might ring true?

Depending on how personal the gift actually was, I'd say he was in the wrong to try to possibly make you feel bad. If it were something generic, I wouldn't take it too seriously.
posted by june made him a gemini at 10:28 AM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

And really, if I told a partner what I was going to get them for a present, and they said a previous partner had got them the same thing, my immediate reaction would be "Oh, well I'll have to think of something else". Drunk or sober.

Not to snark on your boyfriend to much, but him telling you about how your gift compares to a previous partner's gift is more tactless than anything you said, from what I can glean from your post.
posted by Diag at 10:29 AM on January 14, 2010

um, anniecat, a good girlfriend (boyfriend, husband, wife, paramour) kinda definitionally doesn't "shut down [their] "basic human empathy" section [to] become a mean, petty person" when they drink too much.

um, mr. remy, how exactly did she do that? She revealed his surprise. He started talking about how his ex did the same thing. She declared she wouldn't get him that. And he brings it up again, for what? To make her feel excessively guilty? From what I gather, he brings it up to tell her what a lousy person she is and that whatever happened that night is ALL HER FAULT.

Maybe she didn't include all the details, but from what she did include, she didn't do anything and she seems to be beating herself up with his help. That worries me, frankly.
posted by anniecat at 10:44 AM on January 14, 2010 [4 favorites]

anonymous: "The next morning my boyfriend asked me why I'd mentioned details that seemed deliberately barbed to hurt him..."

anniecat: "If he's beating her over the head with 'Look what an awful person you are' and 'a good girlfriend doesn't do that'..."

Hopefully you can see why I think people are reading too much into this.
posted by hermitosis at 10:46 AM on January 14, 2010

I think the point anniecat is trying to make here is that they'd both had their fair share of drinks that night. The OP is 26 years old, so I'd assume her boyfriend is somewhere around there as well -- old enough, at least, to understand what effects alcohol can have on a person, especially if they drink fairly often.

If the next morning all he did was try to make her feel bad about what she said while under the influence instead of "Hey.. I don't know if you remember what you said last night, but it made me feel pretty bad and I said things I shouldn't have as well. Maybe we should hold off a bit on the wine from now on, okay?" then yeah, I think he's being sort of an ass.
posted by june made him a gemini at 11:01 AM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Nth-ing the fairly common comment that drunk you is not the same person as sober you. Clearly, you behave in differently in each state, and it's that behavior you should be concerned with. Not what this means about you as a person, or what sort of unconscious feelings it might betray. Saying mean things while you're drunk indicates that you can be a mean drunk, nothing more. That's bad enough.

You don't necessarily need to quit drinking, although I am a bit concerned that you mentioned brown-outs (infrequent, I hope) and an alcoholic family history. What you need to try first is eliminating the undesirable behavior. And that means drinking without getting smashed. Down a full glass of water between every alcoholic drink. Make a rule before going out like "only 3 drinks" and see if you can stick with it. Set limits and adhere to them. If you can learn to control your drinking, you get to keep doing it. If your drinking continues to control your behavior, however, it's time for you to take the advice of those that counsel quitting entirely.

That said, it's not uncommon, in my experience, for a 26 year old to have problems managing their drinking in the ways you describe. But you could end up a rather tragic 52 year old if you don't work towards getting things under control. I think your post and your self-awareness is a key step to making this happen. Good luck!
posted by centerweight at 11:39 AM on January 14, 2010

I did the same thing when I was your age (10 years ago). It took me a couple of years to grow out of it, but now I'm not like that anymore. Maybe you'll change, too.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:40 AM on January 14, 2010

i think it's important for people in this thread to realize that she told one anecdote out of, according to her, many. it wasn't just this one night. it wasn't just the birthday stuff. if she thinks it's a problem, if she's upset about her actions, then she needs to make some changes. turning this into "your boyfriend is an ass" isn't helping her. you can only control your actions, not anyone elses, so maybe we could help the OP control her actions.

OP - go a few weeks without drinking. pay attention to the times in those couple of weeks when you REALLY want a drink. i would guess that the nights when you feel like you NEED it to wind down are the same nights that if you drank you'd go beyond your limit and say things you later regret. when you pick drinking back up again (because i do think you might be able to do so responsibly), if you have one of those "i NEED a drink!" nights, either have a hard limit set up before hand on how much you'll drink or just skip it all together that night. if you find either of those conditions hard to live by, you might have an actual drinking problem.
posted by nadawi at 12:12 PM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

When I get drunk there's usually two options - obnoxious yet kind of funny (and usually horny) geek anachronism and obnoxious, miserable, vile and mean geek anachronism. After my last bout of the mean one I sat down with the other anachronism and a close friend who had been caught in the crossfire (the sober one who brought the other anachronism across town because I'd been drinking alone like a total fucking idiot) and we worked out what the limits are. What the problems are. For me it's company, existing mood, food intake, tiredness and obviously, alcohol intake. The company must be more than 2 people OR just the other anachronism. I need to be happy before I start drinking. I need to have had a good meal and have snacks to eat while I drink. I need to be non-exhausted. I need to stay under 5 standard drinks.

Yes, it fucks with the party atmosphere. Yes it's annoying when I hit the fourth drink and am revving for more to get pulled back. Yes it's annoying when the other anachronism is drinking with a friend while I stay sober. But the alternative is just not worth it. You have to work out what not drinking is worth to you.
posted by geek anachronism at 2:07 PM on January 14, 2010

Anon, I'd give yourself the benefit of the doubt about the incident you describe. Apologize to your boyfriend, and don't drink as heavily in the future (perhaps you'd feel more comfortable abstaining for a while) but don't kick yourself about it too much: you obviously want to make an effort to change.

Talk with your boyfriend about the behavior that you're seeing as a trend, and about ways that you two can still go out and have fun that don't involve you drinking to the point where you feel like you're becoming the kind of person you don't want to be. Changing the way the two of you are social together is important; if you're trying to drink less, but you're only socializing in bars, it's going to be harder for you.

And don't be afraid to let your other friends know that you're drinking less, or not at all. They'll likely be happy to have a soda with you, or to keep it to one bottle of wine for the table at dinner, rather than three.
posted by ocherdraco at 2:01 PM on January 15, 2010

There's a song in my iTunes library – "You're the Only One," by Maria Mena (if you Google it, their new 'iLike' results will let you hear the whole song) – where a woman both apologizes for and discusses the rationale for behavior similar to yours:

i hope you can forgive me for that time
when i put my hand between your legs
and said it was small
cause it's really not at all
i guess there's just a part of me
that likes to bring you down
just to keep you around
cause the day that you realize how amazing you are
you're gonna leave me

That's all I have to offer, and admittedly, it's brief and simple, but who knows, it could be relevant. Many others have certainly found sage advice for their relationships in song lyrics before, after all.
posted by MikeHarris at 9:02 PM on January 17, 2010