How to get payment for a replaced lock?
October 1, 2008 11:01 PM Subscribe
We were forced to call a locksmith to replace our apartment lock incurring a hefty fee. Should the landlord pay for this? Lengthy details inside -
My roommates attempted to leave the apartment (I was already gone), and found that the deadbolt lock which had always been loose/shady was jammed and they could not leave the apartment. Fire hazards/safety issues aside they needed to get out to continue their lives.
They made several attempts to reach the landlord/super, but it being the Jewish holidays and our Landlord being orthodox his phone was not even on. So they were forced to call a locksmith who had to cut the old lock and install a new one. One of my roommates put the charge on a credit card.
I believe in always contacting the landlord first, as they can probably fix the issue cheaply. But they could not be reached, and its not like they could just wait inside the apartment for a day or two. Our lease doesn't really mention anything that would shed any light on this, it looks like a standard NYC lease.
The question is how do we approach the landlord to pay for this? We can show the receipt etc, and ask for payment, but these landlords are obscenely slow with everything. Is it kosher (no pun intended) to subtract this from next month's rent?
For what its worth we always pay our bills/rent early or on time and have been good tenants for 2 years.
My roommates attempted to leave the apartment (I was already gone), and found that the deadbolt lock which had always been loose/shady was jammed and they could not leave the apartment. Fire hazards/safety issues aside they needed to get out to continue their lives.
They made several attempts to reach the landlord/super, but it being the Jewish holidays and our Landlord being orthodox his phone was not even on. So they were forced to call a locksmith who had to cut the old lock and install a new one. One of my roommates put the charge on a credit card.
I believe in always contacting the landlord first, as they can probably fix the issue cheaply. But they could not be reached, and its not like they could just wait inside the apartment for a day or two. Our lease doesn't really mention anything that would shed any light on this, it looks like a standard NYC lease.
The question is how do we approach the landlord to pay for this? We can show the receipt etc, and ask for payment, but these landlords are obscenely slow with everything. Is it kosher (no pun intended) to subtract this from next month's rent?
For what its worth we always pay our bills/rent early or on time and have been good tenants for 2 years.
Whatever you do, don't take it out of your rent unless your landlord approves that first (preferably in writing). Your lease says you pay Y per year, divided into 12 payments of X per month (or at least, that how most work). Anything less and you've violated the agreement.
Personally, I find what you've done entirely reasonable and I'd send the bill via certified mail with a kind note explaining what happened. At worst, you might have to take him to small claims court to get your money back. But in that instance, showing that you've been a model tenant by paying your rent on time will go a long way.
IIRC, my lease has provisions for situations like this. Either that, or local tenant laws do. NYC being NYC, I'd be surprised if you didn't have some sort of legal protection.
posted by sbutler at 11:12 PM on October 1, 2008
Personally, I find what you've done entirely reasonable and I'd send the bill via certified mail with a kind note explaining what happened. At worst, you might have to take him to small claims court to get your money back. But in that instance, showing that you've been a model tenant by paying your rent on time will go a long way.
IIRC, my lease has provisions for situations like this. Either that, or local tenant laws do. NYC being NYC, I'd be surprised if you didn't have some sort of legal protection.
posted by sbutler at 11:12 PM on October 1, 2008
Response by poster: Ok.
Makes sense - don't subtract it without discussing it with him.
Next question, if he refuses to pay is the next step small claims court or subtracting it from rent?
posted by alhadro at 11:20 PM on October 1, 2008
Makes sense - don't subtract it without discussing it with him.
Next question, if he refuses to pay is the next step small claims court or subtracting it from rent?
posted by alhadro at 11:20 PM on October 1, 2008
. Anything less and you've violated the agreement.
actually at least here in California it's perfectly legal for renters to deduct necessary repairs from the rent. New York may be different:
"New York State has no "repair and deduct" law that automatically
allows the tenant to recover the costs of doing what the landlord
fails to do. Nevertheless, the courts have generally allowed
tenants to deduct the cost of repairs in circumstances where the
tenant's expense was for restoring an essential service, such as
heat and hot water, and the landlord was given adequate notice of
the need to act but failed to do so. Whatever the circumstances,
tenants should seek expert advice before paying for costs that,
legally, are the landlord's responsibility."
Poster needs to get in touch with a NYC rental advocacy group forthwith.
posted by troy at 11:20 PM on October 1, 2008
actually at least here in California it's perfectly legal for renters to deduct necessary repairs from the rent. New York may be different:
"New York State has no "repair and deduct" law that automatically
allows the tenant to recover the costs of doing what the landlord
fails to do. Nevertheless, the courts have generally allowed
tenants to deduct the cost of repairs in circumstances where the
tenant's expense was for restoring an essential service, such as
heat and hot water, and the landlord was given adequate notice of
the need to act but failed to do so. Whatever the circumstances,
tenants should seek expert advice before paying for costs that,
legally, are the landlord's responsibility."
Poster needs to get in touch with a NYC rental advocacy group forthwith.
posted by troy at 11:20 PM on October 1, 2008
Best answer: heh:
"In emergencies, tenants may make necessary repairs and deduct reasonable repair costs from the rent. For example, when a landlord has been notified that a door lock is broken and willfully neglects to repair it, the tenant may hire a locksmith and deduct the cost from the rent. Tenants should keep receipts for such repairs." from here.
This is just a random google search return but it is promising. First step is to nail down the legals and then just bring the expense to the LL's attention and ask him how he wants to reimburse you.
posted by troy at 11:23 PM on October 1, 2008
"In emergencies, tenants may make necessary repairs and deduct reasonable repair costs from the rent. For example, when a landlord has been notified that a door lock is broken and willfully neglects to repair it, the tenant may hire a locksmith and deduct the cost from the rent. Tenants should keep receipts for such repairs." from here.
This is just a random google search return but it is promising. First step is to nail down the legals and then just bring the expense to the LL's attention and ask him how he wants to reimburse you.
posted by troy at 11:23 PM on October 1, 2008
Should the landlord pay for this?
As stated you are in a grey area. You admit the lock has been failing for two years. Did you ever notify you landlord of this defect? If you have then yes the landlord should pay though he may not be be legally required to. If not the emergency condition was caused by your inaction not the the landlord's and the three of you should at least cover the service call. A deadbolt is $20-30 and five minutes to replace, I'd imagine the locksmith bill was for substantially more.
You shouldn't just automatically deduct the expense from the rent, as twirlypen says that'll antagonize your landlord. A key component of having a court back you up on the deduction being notification, "a landlord has been notified that a door lock is broken and willfully neglects to repair it", which wasn't given and very little effort (a few phone calls in what sounds like a very limited time period) was made to do so.
If this does go to court I'd avoid volunteering that the lock has been failing for 2 years unless you notified the landlord of this previously. If your receipt doesn't specifically mention the lock was replaced because it was defective/jammed I'd get a letter from the locksmith outlining the specifics. Otherwise your landlord can credibly claim that you only called a locksmith because you lost your keys. I've had a tenant try to pull that on me oblivious that the locksmith he phoned happened to be the guy I always used who actually informed me of the call out before the tenant did.
But first thing would just be to talk to the landlord, he may be willing to pony up. However be prepared for the landlord to not only refuse to reimburse but also come back at you with a counterclaim to replace the lock with his preferred type/style if the replacement wasn't identical (IE: if your old key doesn't fit your new lock).
posted by Mitheral at 12:10 AM on October 2, 2008
As stated you are in a grey area. You admit the lock has been failing for two years. Did you ever notify you landlord of this defect? If you have then yes the landlord should pay though he may not be be legally required to. If not the emergency condition was caused by your inaction not the the landlord's and the three of you should at least cover the service call. A deadbolt is $20-30 and five minutes to replace, I'd imagine the locksmith bill was for substantially more.
You shouldn't just automatically deduct the expense from the rent, as twirlypen says that'll antagonize your landlord. A key component of having a court back you up on the deduction being notification, "a landlord has been notified that a door lock is broken and willfully neglects to repair it", which wasn't given and very little effort (a few phone calls in what sounds like a very limited time period) was made to do so.
If this does go to court I'd avoid volunteering that the lock has been failing for 2 years unless you notified the landlord of this previously. If your receipt doesn't specifically mention the lock was replaced because it was defective/jammed I'd get a letter from the locksmith outlining the specifics. Otherwise your landlord can credibly claim that you only called a locksmith because you lost your keys. I've had a tenant try to pull that on me oblivious that the locksmith he phoned happened to be the guy I always used who actually informed me of the call out before the tenant did.
But first thing would just be to talk to the landlord, he may be willing to pony up. However be prepared for the landlord to not only refuse to reimburse but also come back at you with a counterclaim to replace the lock with his preferred type/style if the replacement wasn't identical (IE: if your old key doesn't fit your new lock).
posted by Mitheral at 12:10 AM on October 2, 2008
Every landlord I've ever had kept a key for himself. You now have all the keys (I assume), perhaps a trade is in order, he pays and gets a key.
posted by Marky at 12:26 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Marky at 12:26 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
If the landlord doesn't want his lock, be sure to take it with you when you leave.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:06 AM on October 2, 2008
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:06 AM on October 2, 2008
It does not matter how long it had been failing, or if the landlord had been notified of that. It failed. People were locked in, and the landlord could not be reached. That qualifies as an emergency situation, and the costs should definitely be reimbursed. I very much doubt he will make an issue of it. Just tell him that the lock jammed with people stuck inside, and you could not reach him. You replaced the part, and have a new key for him, and the cost is $x.
posted by Nothing at 5:55 AM on October 2, 2008
posted by Nothing at 5:55 AM on October 2, 2008
"Dear Mr. Landlord,
This is just a note to let you know that your key to our apartment wont work anymore. Remember that shaky deadbolt? You wont believe this, but it broke and actually locked us IN yesterday. Who ever heard of that, huh? :-) I tried to call you, but being a holiday and all, I couldn't get through. I called around and XYZ Locksmith was the least expensive guy that could fix it. I'll give you the receipt to square things up when you stop by to pick up the new key.
Thanks, Mr. Landlord!
XO
-Tenant who loves you.
P.S. My Cousin (on my mother's side) Just got a huge promotion, and is thinking of moving into the city. If you know of an apartment he might be interested in, I'd be happy to pass the information along."
posted by sandra_s at 3:10 PM on October 2, 2008
This is just a note to let you know that your key to our apartment wont work anymore. Remember that shaky deadbolt? You wont believe this, but it broke and actually locked us IN yesterday. Who ever heard of that, huh? :-) I tried to call you, but being a holiday and all, I couldn't get through. I called around and XYZ Locksmith was the least expensive guy that could fix it. I'll give you the receipt to square things up when you stop by to pick up the new key.
Thanks, Mr. Landlord!
XO
-Tenant who loves you.
P.S. My Cousin (on my mother's side) Just got a huge promotion, and is thinking of moving into the city. If you know of an apartment he might be interested in, I'd be happy to pass the information along."
posted by sandra_s at 3:10 PM on October 2, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by twirlypen at 11:11 PM on October 1, 2008