Seek swimming pool brouhaha damage control.
April 15, 2024 7:57 AM Subscribe
I work part-time as a cashier and lifeguard at a swimming pool. When I was cashiering last week, a woman in her 60's came to me to complain that while she was water walking, she was getting splashed due to the ardent lap swimming of the person in the lane next to her.
The lap swimming person is a very nice, respectful 17 year old who comes to the pool regularly on his own for extra practice because he is on a swim team.
The woman told me she asked one of the guards on duty to have the lap swimmer move to another lane, but the guard (a high school student) told her (correctly and rightly) that lap swimmers have a right to swim in any lane they choose. There were no other open lanes, and so the guard would have had to ask someone if they were willing to swap lanes.
The guard saw her talking to me, and so he came over to us. The woman then started an argument with him, and I sat there, becoming stunned, as their conversation got escalated and got more heated. I can't remember what I said, but whatever it was seemed to calm them down, and the woman left and went into the locker room.
A moment later, the guard came over to talk to me to defend himself. I totally supported him. After that, the woman came to me on her way out and complained some more. I tried to communicate to her that the guard is just a teenager and is still learning how to master diplomacy - I was hoping that would spark some empathy in her. It didn't. Instead, she said, "Well, he'd better figure it out!"
After that, the lap swimmer came to me to find out what the problem was. I was surprised (and sorry) that he had been aware of what was going on.
I feel so sorry for that lap swimmer. He is a really, really nice kid who has the ambition to come in on his own to do extra practice for his swim team. I am so sorry that something irrational and unfair happened that might discourage him from continuing to come in to swim. I also feel sorry for the guard, who has the ambition to have a job in addition to going to school. Both of them were doing the right thing and they were mistreated by the woman. If she is going to be in water, there is going to be some splashing for God's sake!!
If I were the pool manager, I would bar her from swimming at the pool going forward.
I've made a decision to not tell the pool manager because he just received a cancer diagnosis and so I don't want to burden him.
My biggest concern is the young lap swimmer. Is there anything I can do to assure him that he did absolutely nothing wrong and to make sure he feels 100% comfortable to continue to do his training as ardently as he needs to?
The lap swimming person is a very nice, respectful 17 year old who comes to the pool regularly on his own for extra practice because he is on a swim team.
The woman told me she asked one of the guards on duty to have the lap swimmer move to another lane, but the guard (a high school student) told her (correctly and rightly) that lap swimmers have a right to swim in any lane they choose. There were no other open lanes, and so the guard would have had to ask someone if they were willing to swap lanes.
The guard saw her talking to me, and so he came over to us. The woman then started an argument with him, and I sat there, becoming stunned, as their conversation got escalated and got more heated. I can't remember what I said, but whatever it was seemed to calm them down, and the woman left and went into the locker room.
A moment later, the guard came over to talk to me to defend himself. I totally supported him. After that, the woman came to me on her way out and complained some more. I tried to communicate to her that the guard is just a teenager and is still learning how to master diplomacy - I was hoping that would spark some empathy in her. It didn't. Instead, she said, "Well, he'd better figure it out!"
After that, the lap swimmer came to me to find out what the problem was. I was surprised (and sorry) that he had been aware of what was going on.
I feel so sorry for that lap swimmer. He is a really, really nice kid who has the ambition to come in on his own to do extra practice for his swim team. I am so sorry that something irrational and unfair happened that might discourage him from continuing to come in to swim. I also feel sorry for the guard, who has the ambition to have a job in addition to going to school. Both of them were doing the right thing and they were mistreated by the woman. If she is going to be in water, there is going to be some splashing for God's sake!!
If I were the pool manager, I would bar her from swimming at the pool going forward.
I've made a decision to not tell the pool manager because he just received a cancer diagnosis and so I don't want to burden him.
My biggest concern is the young lap swimmer. Is there anything I can do to assure him that he did absolutely nothing wrong and to make sure he feels 100% comfortable to continue to do his training as ardently as he needs to?
You should tell the pool manager. Let them know it’s handled and that you calmed them down and enforced the rules. Put it in an email with time and date so you have your back covered. This is pretty standard pool stuff and your manager would be more stressed not knowing they can count on you to report small events.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:00 AM on April 15 [46 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:00 AM on April 15 [46 favorites]
I think barring her would be extreme, but it is not our call.
Send an update to the manager as an FYI, this is no big deal, everyone will be fine.
posted by rhonzo at 8:07 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
Send an update to the manager as an FYI, this is no big deal, everyone will be fine.
posted by rhonzo at 8:07 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
This is very typical pool “drama.” Let your manager know that the info sent occurred as an FYI but that’s about it. Nothing more really need to be done at this point
posted by raccoon409 at 8:08 AM on April 15 [12 favorites]
posted by raccoon409 at 8:08 AM on April 15 [12 favorites]
I've made a decision to not tell the pool manager because he just received a cancer diagnosis and so I don't want to burden him.
This is not a burden, although if this blows up into something bigger and the pool manager doesn't already know about it, it might be.
posted by grouse at 8:26 AM on April 15 [36 favorites]
This is not a burden, although if this blows up into something bigger and the pool manager doesn't already know about it, it might be.
posted by grouse at 8:26 AM on April 15 [36 favorites]
So, I have lived this problem from the perspective of both the lap swimmer and the water walker. There is a person who uses my building's pool who highly, highly objects to the degree to which I cause waves when I swim laps. They have complained to my building management about it as well as whining about it a tenants association meeting. And I have some sympathy for the woman, because I also do water walking and if you're doing water walking and regularly getting smucked in the face with waves it is annoying as shit. It is totally different than if you are, yourself, putting your face in the water.
One thing most public pools do is label lanes by swimming speed in order to keep the highly splashy fast people away from the water walkers. Water walking - slow swimming - medium swimming - fast swimming with people moving up and down a lane as necessary to keep the lanes about even in terms of how many people are in them. The more lane dividers that are between the two, the better.
This isn't in with your control, but as a pool, there should be a culture where lane shifting to keep balance and make everything work is normal and expected -- the idea that any swimmer should use any lane doesn't account for the fact that there are conflicts between some uses that can be mitigated by separating those uses. It shouldn't be a big deal to have people switch and it should be something lifeguards help with, if necessary. Talk to the pool manager to let them know about the incident and suggest improvements in this area.
(My building doesn't have lanes, so this isn't an option. I try to stay as far from her as possible, but as a small private pool, there's not a lot I can do.)
posted by jacquilynne at 8:33 AM on April 15 [35 favorites]
One thing most public pools do is label lanes by swimming speed in order to keep the highly splashy fast people away from the water walkers. Water walking - slow swimming - medium swimming - fast swimming with people moving up and down a lane as necessary to keep the lanes about even in terms of how many people are in them. The more lane dividers that are between the two, the better.
This isn't in with your control, but as a pool, there should be a culture where lane shifting to keep balance and make everything work is normal and expected -- the idea that any swimmer should use any lane doesn't account for the fact that there are conflicts between some uses that can be mitigated by separating those uses. It shouldn't be a big deal to have people switch and it should be something lifeguards help with, if necessary. Talk to the pool manager to let them know about the incident and suggest improvements in this area.
(My building doesn't have lanes, so this isn't an option. I try to stay as far from her as possible, but as a small private pool, there's not a lot I can do.)
posted by jacquilynne at 8:33 AM on April 15 [35 favorites]
Definitely tell your manager. If it comes up again later, 1. he knows it isn't the first time with this person 2. he has no reason to be upset with you for not telling him earlier. If you don't tell him and the same person complains again, he doesn't have the extra context of it happening earlier, which can change how he handles it now.
posted by Meldanthral at 8:43 AM on April 15 [9 favorites]
posted by Meldanthral at 8:43 AM on April 15 [9 favorites]
You want to ban an elderly woman for complaining because she wanted someone to switch lanes so she wouldn't get splashed while she was exercising?
You could rightfully try to ban her if she grabbed the kid's foot and tried to force him into another lane, or screamed hate speech and obscenities.
She might have been unpleasant, but there is no reason a 17 year old can't know that they are not living life totally "in their own lane" and that even innocent actions might bother someone else. He doesn't have to do anything about it, but the world should not try to protect him from realizing that maybe his actions, innocent as they were, also bothered someone else who also had a right to be there. Things can be complicated that way.
The woman had a right to voice her objections even if you have a right not to act on them. She too deserves to be heard and her uncomfortable experience being vigorously splashed should have been received sympathetically, even if there was nothing that could be done.
posted by rainy day girl at 9:07 AM on April 15 [34 favorites]
You could rightfully try to ban her if she grabbed the kid's foot and tried to force him into another lane, or screamed hate speech and obscenities.
She might have been unpleasant, but there is no reason a 17 year old can't know that they are not living life totally "in their own lane" and that even innocent actions might bother someone else. He doesn't have to do anything about it, but the world should not try to protect him from realizing that maybe his actions, innocent as they were, also bothered someone else who also had a right to be there. Things can be complicated that way.
The woman had a right to voice her objections even if you have a right not to act on them. She too deserves to be heard and her uncomfortable experience being vigorously splashed should have been received sympathetically, even if there was nothing that could be done.
posted by rainy day girl at 9:07 AM on April 15 [34 favorites]
The young swimmer, and you, will both feel a lot better, and be a lot more confident (yes, both), if you can see the incident from the woman's point of view.
She's not evil, bad, crazy, petty, mean, or scary -- she's just another person, trying to do something good, who is sometimes too tired or hungry or whatever to be "nice".
She's at least somewhat assertive, which is good -- she asked for help instead of letting resentment build up inside her until she exploded.
She's a normal person who can be talked to , and who might argue or get angry, but won't be that way forever.
Talking about things that are bothering us, and seeking solutions, is what _prevents_ scary explosions from people. We can get caught up in a subconscious idea that expressing unhappiness is a harbinger of awfulness -- it is the opposite, as long as the systems and environment around it seem to care at least a little about the person.
posted by amtho at 9:27 AM on April 15 [19 favorites]
She's not evil, bad, crazy, petty, mean, or scary -- she's just another person, trying to do something good, who is sometimes too tired or hungry or whatever to be "nice".
She's at least somewhat assertive, which is good -- she asked for help instead of letting resentment build up inside her until she exploded.
She's a normal person who can be talked to , and who might argue or get angry, but won't be that way forever.
Talking about things that are bothering us, and seeking solutions, is what _prevents_ scary explosions from people. We can get caught up in a subconscious idea that expressing unhappiness is a harbinger of awfulness -- it is the opposite, as long as the systems and environment around it seem to care at least a little about the person.
posted by amtho at 9:27 AM on April 15 [19 favorites]
I want to add, too, that the entire world tells 60-something women that their lives don't matter, that they should be invisible, and that they don't deserve to take up the space that younger people (especially young men) do. Her exercise needs to be treated as equal to the kid's. The fact that he is on a high school swim team does not give him greater rights than her to being happy and comfortable in the pool which is what it must seem like to her if the pool staff is so protective of his comfort it won't even tell him that he's strongly splashing people.
posted by rainy day girl at 9:41 AM on April 15 [64 favorites]
posted by rainy day girl at 9:41 AM on April 15 [64 favorites]
1. Tell your manager.
2. I hope your manager looks at the lanes or the lane swap policy. It makes sense for a lifeguard to look for a way to swap swimmers so a water walker doesn’t keep getting water in their face. It’s not like, a life-threatening hazard, but it’s part of keeping your eyes on the people in the pool. (Source: former lifeguard and swim instructor.)
3. I do think there’s a hint of ablism+ageism in your approach here. Just something to think about.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:58 AM on April 15 [25 favorites]
2. I hope your manager looks at the lanes or the lane swap policy. It makes sense for a lifeguard to look for a way to swap swimmers so a water walker doesn’t keep getting water in their face. It’s not like, a life-threatening hazard, but it’s part of keeping your eyes on the people in the pool. (Source: former lifeguard and swim instructor.)
3. I do think there’s a hint of ablism+ageism in your approach here. Just something to think about.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:58 AM on April 15 [25 favorites]
The entire world also tells young people that their lives don’t matter and, as a general rule, people in their 60’s have more power than kids.
I was a lifeguard for many years and had versions of this scenario play out several times. Always an older woman complaining that young people are annoying them. I completely side with you: there is no right to not get wet while you’re already almost completely wet. I know many won’t agree with that but I still feel that way 30+ years later as a woman who is now much closer to the older woman in this scenario than the teen. In retrospect, I think this is mostly a power play of one marginalized group (older women) against a group with even less power (kids). Regardless, it’s Karen behavior and I have no time or tolerance for it.
My suggestion in the future is to cut these interactions short: calmly state the pool’s policy on this and then physically leave if you can. Definitely refer to your manager. Grey rock if they won’t stop pestering you, literally say nothing.
posted by scantee at 10:00 AM on April 15 [24 favorites]
I was a lifeguard for many years and had versions of this scenario play out several times. Always an older woman complaining that young people are annoying them. I completely side with you: there is no right to not get wet while you’re already almost completely wet. I know many won’t agree with that but I still feel that way 30+ years later as a woman who is now much closer to the older woman in this scenario than the teen. In retrospect, I think this is mostly a power play of one marginalized group (older women) against a group with even less power (kids). Regardless, it’s Karen behavior and I have no time or tolerance for it.
My suggestion in the future is to cut these interactions short: calmly state the pool’s policy on this and then physically leave if you can. Definitely refer to your manager. Grey rock if they won’t stop pestering you, literally say nothing.
posted by scantee at 10:00 AM on April 15 [24 favorites]
Tell the pool manager. One of the many shltty things about getting a cancer diagnosis is that suddenly everyone thinks you can't handle anything and they walk around on eggshells making you feel unneeded and pitied. It is awful and so isolating! This is his job, and it's just the right-sized, manageable thing for him to deal with and could be a nice brief distraction from his troubles.
posted by headnsouth at 10:09 AM on April 15 [18 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 10:09 AM on April 15 [18 favorites]
I used to swim laps pretty regularly and I was slow AF. I would occasionally get asked by better swimmers to move to a different lane for this reason, and I never minded at all. I think it's ok to request a lane switch, because you do want everyone to feel welcome at the pool.
Also, as a high level manager, tell the pool manager as an FYI.
posted by notjustthefish at 10:10 AM on April 15 [2 favorites]
Also, as a high level manager, tell the pool manager as an FYI.
posted by notjustthefish at 10:10 AM on April 15 [2 favorites]
One more thing: the way this woman should have handled this was to ask the teen directly if he would mind moving. He sounds like a nice kid who would have happily done so if asked. But she didn’t bother with that, she went straight to ‘the manager’ to make her demand, then was pissed when she didn’t get it. That’s the red flag here that this is someone who wants to feel aggrieved.
posted by scantee at 10:28 AM on April 15 [14 favorites]
posted by scantee at 10:28 AM on April 15 [14 favorites]
I agree with folks saying this seems to be a solvable a problem, and I don't quite get why it was so hard for the life guard to ask someone to switch lanes even if they weren't obligated to do so. Maybe the water walker was overly rude in her tone, but based on my experience in customer service, if there is a solution that can help a customer without hurting anyone, you generally opt for that. And yeah, tell the manager. Nor do I understand your overprotectiveness of this teenage swimmer - I highly doubt they will lose any sleep over this pretty minor incident.
posted by coffeecat at 10:29 AM on April 15 [3 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 10:29 AM on April 15 [3 favorites]
One more thing: the way this woman should have handled this was to ask the teen directly if he would mind moving. He sounds like a nice kid who would have happily done so if asked. But she didn’t bother with that, she went straight to ‘the manager’ to make her demand, then was pissed when she didn’t get it.
She asked a lifeguard, the nearest available employee who could help with his kind of situation. Whether she should have asked the person herself first, or asked an employee to be an intermediary isn't clear cut one way or the other, but she definitely didn't start with the manager. She only complained to a cashier after the lifeguard wouldn't help her. To the best of our knowledge, because the cashier hasn't told the manager yet, the woman has still never talked to a manager about this, though she may eventually.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:36 AM on April 15 [12 favorites]
She asked a lifeguard, the nearest available employee who could help with his kind of situation. Whether she should have asked the person herself first, or asked an employee to be an intermediary isn't clear cut one way or the other, but she definitely didn't start with the manager. She only complained to a cashier after the lifeguard wouldn't help her. To the best of our knowledge, because the cashier hasn't told the manager yet, the woman has still never talked to a manager about this, though she may eventually.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:36 AM on April 15 [12 favorites]
OP, for the student, who "had been aware of what was going on:" you could tell him that while the policy is that lap swimmers have a right to swim in any lane they choose, swimmers are free to request lane changes. I think making him aware that he has some agency in an all-around uncomfortable situation is reassuring and encouraging.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:06 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:06 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
At any point in the discussions, did anyone tell the woman "We're sorry about this, we'll tell him to be aware of the splashing when he's going all out, and talk to him about swimming in different lanes when one is available"? If not, doing that (and apologizing for not doing it sooner) is de-escalation 101. I'd also mention you'll talk to the manager about handling the situation better in the future.
Because I agree this is definitely a talk to the manager situation. You don't need to make a big deal about it but they can't manage if their employees isolate them from the business. It is literally their job to manage this stuff.
You got strong feedback from an unhappy customer. They may want to change policies (tell lifeguards to keep an eye on this, have lifeguards facilitate swapping lanes in this situation, institute a "slow lane" buffer zone, etc.) or they plan to do nothing but just not want to be blindsided if an angry customer comes. They may want to coach you on how to handle it next time; AskMe is great but the manager may also want to weigh in.
posted by mark k at 11:10 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
Because I agree this is definitely a talk to the manager situation. You don't need to make a big deal about it but they can't manage if their employees isolate them from the business. It is literally their job to manage this stuff.
You got strong feedback from an unhappy customer. They may want to change policies (tell lifeguards to keep an eye on this, have lifeguards facilitate swapping lanes in this situation, institute a "slow lane" buffer zone, etc.) or they plan to do nothing but just not want to be blindsided if an angry customer comes. They may want to coach you on how to handle it next time; AskMe is great but the manager may also want to weigh in.
posted by mark k at 11:10 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
You're trying to make this okay for everyone except the woman and you. What's going on there? Tell your manager what's up. Like, unless your manager has said, "Please don't ask me to do my job because of my diagnosis," then this is not the decision you should be making here.
There are both customer service and policy issues here.
I do not know the vocabulary used or how heated it got, but you do seem to be assigning blame to the woman. Yes, the guard is young. The guard could have also done things a bit differently, and this might be a learning opportunity for him. First, when the woman was talking to you, the guard should probably have stayed out of it and let you handle it. His stepping in was a bit of an escalation. He didn't have to argue back. It's pretty common, in customer service scenarios, for someone to complain to multiple people, and it's best if folks just let customers do that instead of jumping back in. You all can convene and discuss it later or on a backchannel.
Then, as soon as she left for the locker room, the guard came back to tell you his side of the story. At that point, he was likely amped up, and it might have been good for him to cool off and take some time. You said that you totally supported him. Did you really not see any way he could have handled it differently? If he's a lifeguard, especially, he really would benefit from a bit more self-regulation. This would be a good professional skill either way. I guess I wonder why you are trying to get the woman to have empathy for the young guard but you're not looking for anyone to have empathy for her.
One way you could have de-escalated this situation was by telling the woman, "We don't have a policy about who uses swim lanes near walkers, but I'll pass this along to the manager." So that's good customer service, because you are not just telling them they are wrong or out of luck. But it seems like you're refusing to consider that a different policy about lane use could be an option. Maybe your manager has been considering that, and this would be a good thing for him to hear about to make that decision.
It's not bad for the 17 year old to hear that he was unintentionally splashing someone. Maybe next time, if there's not another lane available, he'll try to be less splashy if he's near the walkers, or he'll move to another lane if one opens up. When we are sharing recreational space, we have to consider other users too.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:42 AM on April 15 [16 favorites]
There are both customer service and policy issues here.
I do not know the vocabulary used or how heated it got, but you do seem to be assigning blame to the woman. Yes, the guard is young. The guard could have also done things a bit differently, and this might be a learning opportunity for him. First, when the woman was talking to you, the guard should probably have stayed out of it and let you handle it. His stepping in was a bit of an escalation. He didn't have to argue back. It's pretty common, in customer service scenarios, for someone to complain to multiple people, and it's best if folks just let customers do that instead of jumping back in. You all can convene and discuss it later or on a backchannel.
Then, as soon as she left for the locker room, the guard came back to tell you his side of the story. At that point, he was likely amped up, and it might have been good for him to cool off and take some time. You said that you totally supported him. Did you really not see any way he could have handled it differently? If he's a lifeguard, especially, he really would benefit from a bit more self-regulation. This would be a good professional skill either way. I guess I wonder why you are trying to get the woman to have empathy for the young guard but you're not looking for anyone to have empathy for her.
One way you could have de-escalated this situation was by telling the woman, "We don't have a policy about who uses swim lanes near walkers, but I'll pass this along to the manager." So that's good customer service, because you are not just telling them they are wrong or out of luck. But it seems like you're refusing to consider that a different policy about lane use could be an option. Maybe your manager has been considering that, and this would be a good thing for him to hear about to make that decision.
It's not bad for the 17 year old to hear that he was unintentionally splashing someone. Maybe next time, if there's not another lane available, he'll try to be less splashy if he's near the walkers, or he'll move to another lane if one opens up. When we are sharing recreational space, we have to consider other users too.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:42 AM on April 15 [16 favorites]
Regardless, it’s Karen behavior and I have no time or tolerance for it.
Dude, she just asked to please not be splashed. Then got zero help or understanding, and probably (rightly) thought that the young lifeguard needed a bit more guidance or understanding of how much this affected her. Then she got frustrated and dared to _seem_ frustrated.
We need to be able to seem frustrated.
We need to be able, even, to be in the wrong sometimes, without being placed in one of the very categories that everyone wishes to avoid. People are individuals with feelings, not amorphous threats.
Please don't call anybody *A [thing]*
posted by amtho at 12:04 PM on April 15 [26 favorites]
Dude, she just asked to please not be splashed. Then got zero help or understanding, and probably (rightly) thought that the young lifeguard needed a bit more guidance or understanding of how much this affected her. Then she got frustrated and dared to _seem_ frustrated.
We need to be able to seem frustrated.
We need to be able, even, to be in the wrong sometimes, without being placed in one of the very categories that everyone wishes to avoid. People are individuals with feelings, not amorphous threats.
Please don't call anybody *A [thing]*
posted by amtho at 12:04 PM on April 15 [26 favorites]
I do think it's worth considering if you might be generally more inclined to be negative to walkers (who are likely to be older women, right?) versus your attitude to the young men who are guards and swimmers. How might you approach this differently if you were trying to make space for everyone? Do you regard the walker as having a legit use of the pool, too? We also often let young men and boys behave in ways that take up more space and resources while asking women and girls to step aside and deal with it. You are trying to protect the guard, the swimmer, and your manager here, and proposing banning a woman for complaining.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:24 PM on April 15 [29 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 12:24 PM on April 15 [29 favorites]
I wouldn't be surprised if getting such an unsatisfactory response from the staff leads that woman to reach out to your manager anyway. It's totally possible to pass along this info beforehand in a low-key way, "Hey, just FYI, this thing happened this afternoon, Lifeguard and I handled it but it sounds like there's some feedback to be considered here and/or training for the lifeguards for when this situation inevitably arises again." It doesn't have to become a big drama unless you make it one.
Banning her seems like the most massive and insensitive of overreactions. I think most people know there's a difference between getting wet from the occasional sideways splash vs. being knocked in the face by a vigorous lap swimmer's waves every minute or so for your entire time in the pool. Sure, she probably could have been nicer and not yelled at staff but it sounds like she started out by asking for help and got nowhere. It's too bad if that teenage kid was made to feel bad but it's also not wrong to hear that your actions caused someone else discomfort in a shared space and to try to pay more attention to your surroundings and make reasonable accommodations, something that young boys and men are rarely ever taught to do.
posted by anderjen at 12:42 PM on April 15 [10 favorites]
Banning her seems like the most massive and insensitive of overreactions. I think most people know there's a difference between getting wet from the occasional sideways splash vs. being knocked in the face by a vigorous lap swimmer's waves every minute or so for your entire time in the pool. Sure, she probably could have been nicer and not yelled at staff but it sounds like she started out by asking for help and got nowhere. It's too bad if that teenage kid was made to feel bad but it's also not wrong to hear that your actions caused someone else discomfort in a shared space and to try to pay more attention to your surroundings and make reasonable accommodations, something that young boys and men are rarely ever taught to do.
posted by anderjen at 12:42 PM on April 15 [10 favorites]
Mod note: One comment removed, another lest for context. Please do not use "Karen" as a pejorative term. It is sexist and insensitive.
posted by loup (staff) at 1:02 PM on April 15 [20 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 1:02 PM on April 15 [20 favorites]
Nothing in your story indicates that the woman actually mistreated the lap swimmer, only that she complained about him and he was aware of it. I'm curious why you think the lap swimmer, who continued swimming through all of that unnecessary drama, needs additional support.
I wasn't there, but I think everyone could have handled this better.
posted by sm1tten at 1:30 PM on April 15 [9 favorites]
I wasn't there, but I think everyone could have handled this better.
posted by sm1tten at 1:30 PM on April 15 [9 favorites]
I can't believe all these people who think that someone doing a swim workout should be "aware of splashing" or that there is some right to not get wet in a pool! The pool is the only place one can do a swim workout. There are plenty of other options for walking or cardio (even yes, with less impact) if you really can't bear the thought of water in your face.
I would tell your manager and probably introduce speeded lanes but jesus.
posted by dame at 3:30 PM on April 15 [11 favorites]
I would tell your manager and probably introduce speeded lanes but jesus.
posted by dame at 3:30 PM on April 15 [11 favorites]
For some people exercising in pools, "less impact" is more about mitigating fall risk. The walker sought accommodations in a shared space, not the ejection of the swimmer from the pool or the premises.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:54 PM on April 15 [5 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:54 PM on April 15 [5 favorites]
Definitely tell the manager as an fyi.
Both the swimmer and the water walker should ideally be able to use their lane for their chosen activity. As a competitive swimmer, I know that asking the swimmer to not splash or to move in the middle of a longer or difficult set means he can’t use the lane to do what he is there for. Similarly, the woman water walking is going to have a really difficult time using the lane in the way she wants to if she keeps getting swamped.
This isn’t something that is sorted by one party being wrong or right on some general principle. It needs to be solved with pool etiquette and guidelines.
So I heartily concur with introducing guidelines for the lanes so that the super fast folks are as far from the slower folks or walkers as it is possible to get. If feasible, designate a walker lane (or two if needed) and put a buffer lane (with an extra lane line, which really cuts down on wake between) between that lane and the lap swim lanes. Lap swimmers can swim over there if there are no walkers but must move if a walker comes along and wants to use it.
I think the kid is probably fine, so I wouldn’t worry about him. You don’t say whether the walker has much experience with pools, so it is possible she could use some guidance. Maybe keep an eye out for her and give her some guidance on which lane’s might be more comfortable for her if she seems to need it. If she insists on swimming in the middle of the pool or right next to a lane with a fast lap swimmer, then that’s on her.
posted by susiswimmer at 4:55 PM on April 15 [7 favorites]
Both the swimmer and the water walker should ideally be able to use their lane for their chosen activity. As a competitive swimmer, I know that asking the swimmer to not splash or to move in the middle of a longer or difficult set means he can’t use the lane to do what he is there for. Similarly, the woman water walking is going to have a really difficult time using the lane in the way she wants to if she keeps getting swamped.
This isn’t something that is sorted by one party being wrong or right on some general principle. It needs to be solved with pool etiquette and guidelines.
So I heartily concur with introducing guidelines for the lanes so that the super fast folks are as far from the slower folks or walkers as it is possible to get. If feasible, designate a walker lane (or two if needed) and put a buffer lane (with an extra lane line, which really cuts down on wake between) between that lane and the lap swim lanes. Lap swimmers can swim over there if there are no walkers but must move if a walker comes along and wants to use it.
I think the kid is probably fine, so I wouldn’t worry about him. You don’t say whether the walker has much experience with pools, so it is possible she could use some guidance. Maybe keep an eye out for her and give her some guidance on which lane’s might be more comfortable for her if she seems to need it. If she insists on swimming in the middle of the pool or right next to a lane with a fast lap swimmer, then that’s on her.
posted by susiswimmer at 4:55 PM on April 15 [7 favorites]
While I completely understand that swimmers have a right to any lane they choose, within that framework it's still possible for you or a guard to ask a slower swimmer to swap (or whatever it takes to help this woman out). I also think the woman's response may have been rude and entitled, but if you can work the problem and solve it, then (usually) that rudeness goes away too. I agree that it sucks to feel like a difficult person got their way, but if you can make problems go away, they go away for everyone (especially the totally innocent other swimmer).
Definitely tell your manager. I have covered my own ass so many times by letting my managers know when customer service had gone awry, and that customer later called my manager. They were happy not to be blindsided with a random complaint, and were in a better position to deal with it right away from a position of knowledge, rather than surprise.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:31 PM on April 15 [2 favorites]
Definitely tell your manager. I have covered my own ass so many times by letting my managers know when customer service had gone awry, and that customer later called my manager. They were happy not to be blindsided with a random complaint, and were in a better position to deal with it right away from a position of knowledge, rather than surprise.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:31 PM on April 15 [2 favorites]
In case it’s a helpful perspective: people walking in the pool are often older and/or have disabilities. I’m a younger woman with mobility issues and I spent a couple years in the walking lane of the pool. I was pretty intimidated to go in the pool because of all the logistical stuff that it took for me to get there, but I had to since other forms of exercise weren’t possible for me at that time. Getting splashed in the face as a short woman who was having trouble getting around could honestly be kind of scary. If I got splashed in the face and asked a lifeguard if the splasher could change lanes, and I got told that I was at fault, or someone tried to ban me from the pool, I would probably, like, cry and not come back and fuck up my fitness in the process. I guess this is not totally responsive to your question, but based on how you described the situation, the swimmer probably has more ability to bounce back from such an experience than the older woman using the walking lane, and I don’t think you need to worry about the experience causing him harm.
posted by Argyle Road at 6:56 PM on April 15 [8 favorites]
posted by Argyle Road at 6:56 PM on April 15 [8 favorites]
I agree with most that wanting to ban the woman seems a bit extreme—based on the original post, it really doesn't seem like she got too out of control. I also agree that there's some degree of ableism/ageism going on here (definitely unintentional, of course). I definitely echo others that we should feel comfortable to share our feelings and even get mad, of course as long as we express it respectfully and be mindful of others.
As a cancer patient myself, I would be extremely annoyed if somebody withdrew important information from me. I'm not fragile. Yes, I'm stressed with my health, having cancer sucks, and the side effects of treatment can be annoying. Still, I want to be treated normally. I don't want to be babied or coddled, unless I ask for it explicitly. So, yes, please share with your boss, by all means.
My observation, based on how the question was written: it seems like the lifeguard escalated things, especially as he came in and interjected the conversation you were having with the woman. If he hadn't joined, then maybe things wouldn't have escalated to the point that it did. It also bothers me a bit that there seems to be zero empathy or sympathy for the older woman. She might have approached the situation a bit better, but then again, I can understand her frustration as well.
As for the young man swimming, I wouldn't worry about him or how he feels. I would say, if anything, he might be a bit more aware and might even be more careful in the future.
I do like/support other suggestions to add dedicated lanes. That might make things much better and more pleasant, especially double lanes to help control the wake/splashes.
posted by dubious_dude at 7:54 PM on April 15 [16 favorites]
As a cancer patient myself, I would be extremely annoyed if somebody withdrew important information from me. I'm not fragile. Yes, I'm stressed with my health, having cancer sucks, and the side effects of treatment can be annoying. Still, I want to be treated normally. I don't want to be babied or coddled, unless I ask for it explicitly. So, yes, please share with your boss, by all means.
My observation, based on how the question was written: it seems like the lifeguard escalated things, especially as he came in and interjected the conversation you were having with the woman. If he hadn't joined, then maybe things wouldn't have escalated to the point that it did. It also bothers me a bit that there seems to be zero empathy or sympathy for the older woman. She might have approached the situation a bit better, but then again, I can understand her frustration as well.
As for the young man swimming, I wouldn't worry about him or how he feels. I would say, if anything, he might be a bit more aware and might even be more careful in the future.
I do like/support other suggestions to add dedicated lanes. That might make things much better and more pleasant, especially double lanes to help control the wake/splashes.
posted by dubious_dude at 7:54 PM on April 15 [16 favorites]
Is there anything I can do to assure him that he did absolutely nothing wrong and to make sure he feels 100% comfortable to continue to do his training as ardently as he needs to?
You can just say the above to him, in these exact words. Poor kid.
Teens just living their lives don't deserve to have their spirits crushed by grumpy adults. Some people like to say children are "resilient" but I know from experience that that isn't quite true.
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:38 PM on April 15 [4 favorites]
You can just say the above to him, in these exact words. Poor kid.
Teens just living their lives don't deserve to have their spirits crushed by grumpy adults. Some people like to say children are "resilient" but I know from experience that that isn't quite true.
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:38 PM on April 15 [4 favorites]
I'm 71. If I were water walking and was being continuously splashed in the face by some kid, thinking it was deliberate, I'd be pissed. But I'm in the water, so I'm wet. And it probably wasn't continuous splashing, it was when he passed or turned around. In which case, TURN YOUR HEAD or even your whole body for a moment! Sorry, I think she was being slightly precious about the whole thing to begin with. She does have a right to her feelings and to express them. But she didn't just express her upset, she went off on three younger people repeatedly. Sounds like the two young people behaved more graciously and adult than she did.
Please do tell your manager, tell him you handled it to the best of your ability, and you hope it was solved so he won't fret about it. Explain it to the teenager that he wasn't doing wrong in the words you used above. Tell your guard to hang in there, this is what customer service entails sometimes. Maybe your older customer was just having 'one of those days'--everybody has one. If your she shows up again with the same issue and behaves in exactly the same way, I'd start to question her motives.
Do you not have hours for a senior swim time? Most pools I've been at have senior swim or easy swim or something of that type. Alternately, perhaps half of the pool for the speedsters and the other half for the laid-back swimmers and the walkers? Seems like this might be best addressed from the top down.
The teen came there to swim. That's what he was doing. He deserves the right to swim. He should be considerate and not splash more than he needs to work out, but he came to swim, and swimming involves some splashing.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:42 PM on April 15 [7 favorites]
Please do tell your manager, tell him you handled it to the best of your ability, and you hope it was solved so he won't fret about it. Explain it to the teenager that he wasn't doing wrong in the words you used above. Tell your guard to hang in there, this is what customer service entails sometimes. Maybe your older customer was just having 'one of those days'--everybody has one. If your she shows up again with the same issue and behaves in exactly the same way, I'd start to question her motives.
Do you not have hours for a senior swim time? Most pools I've been at have senior swim or easy swim or something of that type. Alternately, perhaps half of the pool for the speedsters and the other half for the laid-back swimmers and the walkers? Seems like this might be best addressed from the top down.
The teen came there to swim. That's what he was doing. He deserves the right to swim. He should be considerate and not splash more than he needs to work out, but he came to swim, and swimming involves some splashing.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:42 PM on April 15 [7 favorites]
I've made a decision to not tell the pool manager because he just received a cancer diagnosis and so I don't want to burden him.
People don't generally find it less stressful if you hide small problems from them until they become big ones.
At this point, this is a very small issue that the manager can easily deal with.
I understand that this issue seems new and exciting and big and like there are so many complicated things, but really, this is why there is a manager who has some experience with these sorts of situations. I'm not sure why you think it would be avoiding "burdening" the manager, hearing that one pool user complained about someone else is probably not even going to make the top 40 list of difficult to deal with things for the week for the manager.
posted by yohko at 11:07 PM on April 15 [5 favorites]
People don't generally find it less stressful if you hide small problems from them until they become big ones.
At this point, this is a very small issue that the manager can easily deal with.
I understand that this issue seems new and exciting and big and like there are so many complicated things, but really, this is why there is a manager who has some experience with these sorts of situations. I'm not sure why you think it would be avoiding "burdening" the manager, hearing that one pool user complained about someone else is probably not even going to make the top 40 list of difficult to deal with things for the week for the manager.
posted by yohko at 11:07 PM on April 15 [5 favorites]
This lady absolutely sounds like the type to contact your manager. One of the million times I got In Trouble at work was when a coworker of mine said she'd handle an in-person request in 2020 and didn't, then I was the one in trouble because I hadn't told my manager about it. You have to tell or else you will be the one in trouble.
I have the feeling this lady being assertive has really made you uncomfortable, and that's where your feelings are here
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:40 AM on April 16 [2 favorites]
I have the feeling this lady being assertive has really made you uncomfortable, and that's where your feelings are here
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:40 AM on April 16 [2 favorites]
Oh my gosh. This isn't a 7 year old. A male 17 year old high school athlete isn't going to get their "spirit crushed" by an older woman saying she doesn't like getting splashed by his powerful swimming and can he please change lanes. The world is this kid's oyster as shown by the extreme solicitousness of the original post and all the outraged "Karen" comments worrying about his fragile feelings, and he's either going to be considerate and comply -- no skin off his back, truly, in changing lanes -- or, you know, he'll say there isn't an open lane and carrying on making his impact on the world while the 60 something year old woman tries to water walk without falling.
posted by Tim Bucktooth at 9:13 AM on April 16 [13 favorites]
posted by Tim Bucktooth at 9:13 AM on April 16 [13 favorites]
there is no right to not get wet while you’re already almost completely wet.
Getting splashed "ardently" in the face isn't the same as "getting wet".
I don't know the woman's situation but agree with the comment above about how lots of walkers are doing do as (frequently assigned) hydrotherapy; many are dealing with physical pain (which makes being patient and even-tempered much harder, and things like face splashing more unbearable to already-frayed nerves) and sometimes other issues besides that. For example, I have a hard time quickly turning my neck; the thought of having to do that continuously in order to avoid getting splashed hard in the face would be enough to make me not go in the first place. (And while that might sound like a convenient solution to you, I think it's pretty bad.)
The woman offered a really reasonable solution - to have him switch lanes. The guard could have offered an even more reasonable solution - to ask other swimmers if they would agree to switch lanes with the woman. I'm not sure why the two of you ruled that idea out of hand - it's not like you would have been forcing anyone to switch, you would have been asking nicely for a favor, and most people are happy to comply with polite requests.
I know that I personally get more frustrated when an easy solution to a real problem is at hand and people refuse point-blank to allow it. That doesn't excuse her being rude, but maybe let it spark some empathy of your own?
I don't know what the operating philosophy of your pool is, but hopefully it includes making the pool be as accessible and pleasant to all users as possible. Treating users' difficulties as though they matter. And trying to actually solve problems where that's reasonable and easy, rather than taking unnecessarily rigid stands.
posted by trig at 9:53 AM on April 16 [10 favorites]
Getting splashed "ardently" in the face isn't the same as "getting wet".
I don't know the woman's situation but agree with the comment above about how lots of walkers are doing do as (frequently assigned) hydrotherapy; many are dealing with physical pain (which makes being patient and even-tempered much harder, and things like face splashing more unbearable to already-frayed nerves) and sometimes other issues besides that. For example, I have a hard time quickly turning my neck; the thought of having to do that continuously in order to avoid getting splashed hard in the face would be enough to make me not go in the first place. (And while that might sound like a convenient solution to you, I think it's pretty bad.)
The woman offered a really reasonable solution - to have him switch lanes. The guard could have offered an even more reasonable solution - to ask other swimmers if they would agree to switch lanes with the woman. I'm not sure why the two of you ruled that idea out of hand - it's not like you would have been forcing anyone to switch, you would have been asking nicely for a favor, and most people are happy to comply with polite requests.
I know that I personally get more frustrated when an easy solution to a real problem is at hand and people refuse point-blank to allow it. That doesn't excuse her being rude, but maybe let it spark some empathy of your own?
I don't know what the operating philosophy of your pool is, but hopefully it includes making the pool be as accessible and pleasant to all users as possible. Treating users' difficulties as though they matter. And trying to actually solve problems where that's reasonable and easy, rather than taking unnecessarily rigid stands.
posted by trig at 9:53 AM on April 16 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: I extend my strong gratitude to those here who have provided me with enlightening education regarding how someone with cancer should be respectfully treated - thank you.
Sometimes the guards play basketball on deck between their rotations. Recently, a water walker let me know that the sound of the bouncing balls was very irritating. Her demeanor toward me was polite. I thanked her and told her I would ask the head guard to have his staff refrain. I did, and he did, and they did. I then posted a note asking all guards to please refrain from playing basketball on the deck because the sound was stressful to the pool patrons, and the pool manager signed the note.
The woman who complained about the splashing is a chronic complainer and was not polite. This made me (rightly or wrongly) feel protective of the guard and the swimmer, both of whom are the same age as my grandson. I am 68 years old. She is younger than I, but I am fortunate enough to be healthy and strong enough to be a certified lifeguard. I did ultimately tell the woman, "If you encounter any splashing in the future, just come to me and I will ask a guard to ask the active lap swimmer if they are willing to switch lanes with a more gentle swimmer." After that, she went into the locker room. But she wasn't done, yet. When she came back out, she continued to complain to me. She does have health issues, and I do feel for her regarding that, but I wish there were a way for her to deal with these issues in a way that is not (what I consider to be) borderline abusive to those around her. Please do know that I am consistently nice and pleasant toward her.
Yes, I was angry at her when I submitted my original post. It was my revenge fantasy to have her barred from the pool, but it was just a fantasy, and I should not have posted that.
I do agree that the manager needs to be informed so that the issue can be addressed - hopefully, including deescalation training being provided to the guards, and also so that the manager can consider setting up a system that will alleviate splashing of water walkers.
Thank you all for your feedback. It has been very enlightening, educational, and helpful! You all are the best!!
posted by SageTrail at 11:50 AM on April 16 [13 favorites]
Sometimes the guards play basketball on deck between their rotations. Recently, a water walker let me know that the sound of the bouncing balls was very irritating. Her demeanor toward me was polite. I thanked her and told her I would ask the head guard to have his staff refrain. I did, and he did, and they did. I then posted a note asking all guards to please refrain from playing basketball on the deck because the sound was stressful to the pool patrons, and the pool manager signed the note.
The woman who complained about the splashing is a chronic complainer and was not polite. This made me (rightly or wrongly) feel protective of the guard and the swimmer, both of whom are the same age as my grandson. I am 68 years old. She is younger than I, but I am fortunate enough to be healthy and strong enough to be a certified lifeguard. I did ultimately tell the woman, "If you encounter any splashing in the future, just come to me and I will ask a guard to ask the active lap swimmer if they are willing to switch lanes with a more gentle swimmer." After that, she went into the locker room. But she wasn't done, yet. When she came back out, she continued to complain to me. She does have health issues, and I do feel for her regarding that, but I wish there were a way for her to deal with these issues in a way that is not (what I consider to be) borderline abusive to those around her. Please do know that I am consistently nice and pleasant toward her.
Yes, I was angry at her when I submitted my original post. It was my revenge fantasy to have her barred from the pool, but it was just a fantasy, and I should not have posted that.
I do agree that the manager needs to be informed so that the issue can be addressed - hopefully, including deescalation training being provided to the guards, and also so that the manager can consider setting up a system that will alleviate splashing of water walkers.
Thank you all for your feedback. It has been very enlightening, educational, and helpful! You all are the best!!
posted by SageTrail at 11:50 AM on April 16 [13 favorites]
It's not "borderline abusive" of her to ask not to be splashed. Your emotions towards this woman are not in proportion to anything you've described her doing. Asking a young man to switch lanes so that everyone can enjoy the pool isn't such a big deal you need to have revenge fantasies.
You should seriously examine your reaction and feelings towards women.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 8:48 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
You should seriously examine your reaction and feelings towards women.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 8:48 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Note: Our original poster has pointed out they are in the same demographic as the pool complainer.
It seems clear that it was *not* 'complaining about being splashed' that our OP considers borderline abusive, but instead how this woman is behaving during these complaints, which was extreme enough to have rattled the OP -
We didn't hear what words the complainer used in a discussion the OP described as 'heated', we didn't see her body language, we do have the OP stating that this woman came back repeatedly after OP thought it was resolved, and has further stated this person is a chronic complainer.
Further, the OP gave an example of a complaint from someone else that was acted on with no problems.
Therefore, going forward, perhaps we give the benefit of the doubt to the OP, as they saw it all, and that the crux of their issue appears to be -
How to deal with a pool patron who appears to be complaining frequently and in an aggressive enough manner that they fear it's disturbing other patrons, but isn't overt enough or rising to a level that they feel they can justify banning them from the pool?
Personally, I would want to shield other employees from a customer like this, and would ask that she comes to me directly in future.
AND I would kind of 'grey rock' her in any future conversations. Like, if she starts talking about any other topics, just redirect in a really robotic way, possibly replying with a 'pool fact', like, "Our hours are 7am to 6pm. / We have aquajogging on Thursdays. Are there any pool related issues I can help you with?" and if it's not pool related, keep doing it again.
If she loses her shit at you as well, then... You do have reason to look at having her barred, if the staff are unable to deal with her without this happening, then that's not someone you can have as a patron.
If it's just annoying, then - wash, rinse, repeat.
And funnily enough, since you're at a pool, try washing your hands in cold water after dealing with someone like that, and mentally 'wash your hands' of the encounter, so you can let it go.
posted by Elysum at 11:33 PM on April 17 [2 favorites]
It seems clear that it was *not* 'complaining about being splashed' that our OP considers borderline abusive, but instead how this woman is behaving during these complaints, which was extreme enough to have rattled the OP -
We didn't hear what words the complainer used in a discussion the OP described as 'heated', we didn't see her body language, we do have the OP stating that this woman came back repeatedly after OP thought it was resolved, and has further stated this person is a chronic complainer.
Further, the OP gave an example of a complaint from someone else that was acted on with no problems.
Therefore, going forward, perhaps we give the benefit of the doubt to the OP, as they saw it all, and that the crux of their issue appears to be -
How to deal with a pool patron who appears to be complaining frequently and in an aggressive enough manner that they fear it's disturbing other patrons, but isn't overt enough or rising to a level that they feel they can justify banning them from the pool?
Personally, I would want to shield other employees from a customer like this, and would ask that she comes to me directly in future.
AND I would kind of 'grey rock' her in any future conversations. Like, if she starts talking about any other topics, just redirect in a really robotic way, possibly replying with a 'pool fact', like, "Our hours are 7am to 6pm. / We have aquajogging on Thursdays. Are there any pool related issues I can help you with?" and if it's not pool related, keep doing it again.
If she loses her shit at you as well, then... You do have reason to look at having her barred, if the staff are unable to deal with her without this happening, then that's not someone you can have as a patron.
If it's just annoying, then - wash, rinse, repeat.
And funnily enough, since you're at a pool, try washing your hands in cold water after dealing with someone like that, and mentally 'wash your hands' of the encounter, so you can let it go.
posted by Elysum at 11:33 PM on April 17 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Followup:
I went to swim laps at the pool yesterday. I haven't had a shift since the incident and so I have not yet had the opportunity to report the incident to the pool manager. While I was there, the cashier on duty told me about hearing a woman earlier that day complain to the assistant manager that a lap swimmer's swimming a few days ago (same day I was working) was causing her to be splashed as she water-walked. It was the same woman who complained to me. The cashier said to me, "My gosh, look how wide the water walking lane is. Can't she just walk in the part of the lane that is far from the lap swimming lane?" I asked the cashier how the assistant manager responded. She said he just speculated to the woman as to what type of stroke might cause splashing, and that the conversation didn't go beyond that. I didn't tell the cashier that I had had an interaction with the woman.
Also, FWIW, the woman is in her 60's and is white; I am a woman in my 60's and am white; the guard involved is a young man, aged 17, and is of color.
posted by SageTrail at 7:04 AM on April 18 [1 favorite]
I went to swim laps at the pool yesterday. I haven't had a shift since the incident and so I have not yet had the opportunity to report the incident to the pool manager. While I was there, the cashier on duty told me about hearing a woman earlier that day complain to the assistant manager that a lap swimmer's swimming a few days ago (same day I was working) was causing her to be splashed as she water-walked. It was the same woman who complained to me. The cashier said to me, "My gosh, look how wide the water walking lane is. Can't she just walk in the part of the lane that is far from the lap swimming lane?" I asked the cashier how the assistant manager responded. She said he just speculated to the woman as to what type of stroke might cause splashing, and that the conversation didn't go beyond that. I didn't tell the cashier that I had had an interaction with the woman.
Also, FWIW, the woman is in her 60's and is white; I am a woman in my 60's and am white; the guard involved is a young man, aged 17, and is of color.
posted by SageTrail at 7:04 AM on April 18 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Today, the same woman complained to me because one of the gentlemen who was swimming was wearing a Speedo (brief-type swim trunks). 'nuff said.
posted by SageTrail at 2:49 PM on April 18 [1 favorite]
posted by SageTrail at 2:49 PM on April 18 [1 favorite]
I get it, it's the woman herself who's difficult and nitpicky. Unfortunately, the manager still needs to know that she's acting like this in general.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:01 PM on April 18 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:01 PM on April 18 [1 favorite]
Even an annoying complainer can still have some valid complaints mixed in. Treat the valid ones seriously, laugh off the silly ones, and maybe write yourself a story for your own imagination where she's a crotchety but ultimately decent-hearted egg, doesn't have the social skills to communicate in languages other than complaining and is consequently very lonely (interacting with pool people is all the social contact she gets). May be true, may not be, but might help you not get so worked up by her.
AND I would kind of 'grey rock' her in any future conversations. Like, if she starts talking about any other topics, just redirect in a really robotic way, possibly replying with a 'pool fact', like, "Our hours are 7am to 6pm. / We have aquajogging on Thursdays. Are there any pool related issues I can help you with?" and if it's not pool related, keep doing it again.
That doesn't seem like grey-rocking to me, that seems aggressive and escalatory. Grey-rocking to me would be to say "oh, huh" to Speedo-type complaints.
posted by trig at 3:34 PM on April 18 [7 favorites]
AND I would kind of 'grey rock' her in any future conversations. Like, if she starts talking about any other topics, just redirect in a really robotic way, possibly replying with a 'pool fact', like, "Our hours are 7am to 6pm. / We have aquajogging on Thursdays. Are there any pool related issues I can help you with?" and if it's not pool related, keep doing it again.
That doesn't seem like grey-rocking to me, that seems aggressive and escalatory. Grey-rocking to me would be to say "oh, huh" to Speedo-type complaints.
posted by trig at 3:34 PM on April 18 [7 favorites]
I opposed othering the complainer earlier, and now I'll say that I appreciate OP's update. Everybody deserves respect.
posted by amtho at 4:25 PM on April 19 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 4:25 PM on April 19 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Assistant pool manager spoke directly to me today. He said he told the woman the following: This is a swimming pool and so some splashing can be expected, and some strokes cause more splashing than others, but they are still acceptable strokes, and the policy at the pool is that lap swimmers can swim in any lane they choose and can employ any stroke they choose. The young man about whom the woman complained came in to swim today. I was happy to see that he was his usual cheerful self. He chose a lane that was not near the water-walking lane.
posted by SageTrail at 10:05 PM on April 19 [1 favorite]
posted by SageTrail at 10:05 PM on April 19 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Upon reading the responses to my question, I soon realized that I had not done a good job of posing the actual question that I had intended to ask. Therefore, I considered asking the mods if they could delete my ask, but I decided not to, because there was value in the replies (replies that probably could have been considered tangential had I done a better job of communicating my actual question). I especially appreciate feedback regarding how those with cancer wish/deserve to be treated. I also appreciate the, to me, surprisingly varied values regarding swimming pool etiquette. It was all quite enlightening.
The guard was only enforcing a pool rule. You don’t change a pool rule by arguing with the guard any more than you change a rule of the road by arguing with a traffic police officer. You don’t change a pool rule by complaining to the cashier that the guard was enforcing a pool rule. If you want a rule to be changed, you do it through the proper channels. For example, since this pool is owned by the city, perhaps present your bid to have the rule changed to the city council.
If someone is wearing swim attire that you find offensive, but is not breaking any laws or rules related to swim attire, you don’t complain to the cashier about their attire, and you don’t call the person wearing said attire, “That old man in that skimpy swimsuit” (in this particular case, “that old man” was this cashier’s son’s beloved music teacher in grade-school, and is someone the cashier admires and considers to be a friend, and someone who makes this world a better place). Instead, you go to the appropriate legal source if you wish to work to have a change made regarding rules/laws as to what attire is considered appropriate. Personally, I (a female) absolutely despise wearing a swim top; I hate the way the straps put pressure on my shoulders when I reach above my head when swimming laps. Some state laws allow women to go topless in any location where men can do so legally – bravo! Oh, how I wish I lived in one of those states!!
I wish I had posed my question as follows:
I am a cashier and lifeguard at a public swimming pool owned by the city. There is a 2-lane wide water-walking lane, and there are 4 lap swim lanes, all divided by lane ropes. I was cashiering yesterday. A 60 year old person who was water-walking complained to a 17 year old lifeguard that the swimmer next to them was doing the butterfly, which was causing them to be splashed. The guard let the person know that the rule is that lap swimmers may swim the butterfly. The 60 year old argued with the guard about the rule, and then came to me to complain about the guard enforcing the rule. The guard saw them complaining to me, and came over to us to tell me their side of the story. The 60 year old began arguing with the guard. After the guard left, I told the 60 year old that next time just come to me and I’ll talk to a guard and see if the guard is open to asking the swimmer to swap lanes with a more gentle swimmer. This is not a requirement at all, it is just something that I was willing to ask a guard if they would be open to doing. Later, the swimmer, a 17 year old, who had been doing the butterfly came to me to let me know that they were aware that the 60 year old and the guard were having a confrontation about them. I told the swimmer that they didn’t break any rules, and that I felt confident that the swimmer would be willing to swap lanes with a more gentle swimmer, even though there is no rule that says they must. The swimmer said that, yes, they would be willing to swap lanes. I felt like the swimmer, who had not broken any rules, got unfairly caught in the crossfire, and so I felt sorry for them, and so my question is: Is there anything I can do to reassure the swimmer that they had not broken any rules, and to encourage them to not hesitate to continue coming to the pool?
posted by SageTrail at 11:11 AM on April 27
The guard was only enforcing a pool rule. You don’t change a pool rule by arguing with the guard any more than you change a rule of the road by arguing with a traffic police officer. You don’t change a pool rule by complaining to the cashier that the guard was enforcing a pool rule. If you want a rule to be changed, you do it through the proper channels. For example, since this pool is owned by the city, perhaps present your bid to have the rule changed to the city council.
If someone is wearing swim attire that you find offensive, but is not breaking any laws or rules related to swim attire, you don’t complain to the cashier about their attire, and you don’t call the person wearing said attire, “That old man in that skimpy swimsuit” (in this particular case, “that old man” was this cashier’s son’s beloved music teacher in grade-school, and is someone the cashier admires and considers to be a friend, and someone who makes this world a better place). Instead, you go to the appropriate legal source if you wish to work to have a change made regarding rules/laws as to what attire is considered appropriate. Personally, I (a female) absolutely despise wearing a swim top; I hate the way the straps put pressure on my shoulders when I reach above my head when swimming laps. Some state laws allow women to go topless in any location where men can do so legally – bravo! Oh, how I wish I lived in one of those states!!
I wish I had posed my question as follows:
I am a cashier and lifeguard at a public swimming pool owned by the city. There is a 2-lane wide water-walking lane, and there are 4 lap swim lanes, all divided by lane ropes. I was cashiering yesterday. A 60 year old person who was water-walking complained to a 17 year old lifeguard that the swimmer next to them was doing the butterfly, which was causing them to be splashed. The guard let the person know that the rule is that lap swimmers may swim the butterfly. The 60 year old argued with the guard about the rule, and then came to me to complain about the guard enforcing the rule. The guard saw them complaining to me, and came over to us to tell me their side of the story. The 60 year old began arguing with the guard. After the guard left, I told the 60 year old that next time just come to me and I’ll talk to a guard and see if the guard is open to asking the swimmer to swap lanes with a more gentle swimmer. This is not a requirement at all, it is just something that I was willing to ask a guard if they would be open to doing. Later, the swimmer, a 17 year old, who had been doing the butterfly came to me to let me know that they were aware that the 60 year old and the guard were having a confrontation about them. I told the swimmer that they didn’t break any rules, and that I felt confident that the swimmer would be willing to swap lanes with a more gentle swimmer, even though there is no rule that says they must. The swimmer said that, yes, they would be willing to swap lanes. I felt like the swimmer, who had not broken any rules, got unfairly caught in the crossfire, and so I felt sorry for them, and so my question is: Is there anything I can do to reassure the swimmer that they had not broken any rules, and to encourage them to not hesitate to continue coming to the pool?
posted by SageTrail at 11:11 AM on April 27
« Older Can I use this MOSFET on my garage door opener? | Coping after a health anxiety/panic disorder... Newer »
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by bq at 7:58 AM on April 15 [79 favorites]