How to get better sound from a record player.
October 21, 2007 4:47 PM Subscribe
Will replacing the needle on my record player give me better sound?
I have owned my Stanton STR88-80 for 3 years. I use it mainly to sample old records, many of which are VERY dirty and scratched. I'm stating to wonder if the sound from my player is getting more lo-if.... but I'm not sure.
Do better (more expensive) needles make significantly better sound?
I have owned my Stanton STR88-80 for 3 years. I use it mainly to sample old records, many of which are VERY dirty and scratched. I'm stating to wonder if the sound from my player is getting more lo-if.... but I'm not sure.
Do better (more expensive) needles make significantly better sound?
good speakers help too, of course. it's probably not worth dropping a significant amount of money on a better needle if your overall sound system is lacking.
posted by dhammond at 5:02 PM on October 21, 2007
posted by dhammond at 5:02 PM on October 21, 2007
i would think those old dirty/scratched records are not being kind on the needle that you currently have. gunk can get on a needle and i can't imagine that scratches help keep your needle in tip top shape.
have you tried cleaning the records? rca makes a little kit for $15 that comes with a brush and some 'cleaning solution' (aka isopropyl alcohol) that should improve the quality of your records a wee bit and protect your needle from additional ickies.
you'll still likely want to replace your needle but if your original source is limited, i don't think you're going to see much benefit from a pricier needle.
posted by noloveforned at 5:24 PM on October 21, 2007
have you tried cleaning the records? rca makes a little kit for $15 that comes with a brush and some 'cleaning solution' (aka isopropyl alcohol) that should improve the quality of your records a wee bit and protect your needle from additional ickies.
you'll still likely want to replace your needle but if your original source is limited, i don't think you're going to see much benefit from a pricier needle.
posted by noloveforned at 5:24 PM on October 21, 2007
Don't forget that the needle is a friction device. It wears like anything else, and replacing it is always going to improve performance. They usually have a life (number of hours use) and after that will sound crap and potentially damage your records. Replace it, even if it is with a direct replacement.
Also echoing the cleaning of the records suggestion. Anything to improve the quality of contact between the needle and the groove (man) will improve the sound. Vinyl records, while brilliant, need more attention than a CD player, so you need to treat it with the love it expects for best results.
posted by Brockles at 5:46 PM on October 21, 2007
Also echoing the cleaning of the records suggestion. Anything to improve the quality of contact between the needle and the groove (man) will improve the sound. Vinyl records, while brilliant, need more attention than a CD player, so you need to treat it with the love it expects for best results.
posted by Brockles at 5:46 PM on October 21, 2007
Most phono cartridge makers, such as Stanton, offer synthetic diamond replacement styli, in at least a couple of tip shapes. A round stylus will present more diamond surface to the record groove, and thus will wear at a slower rate than the elliptical type diamond, which has a narrower contact radii with the wall of the vinyl groove. The round diamond profile is less capable of accurately reproducing high frequencies well, whereas the elliptical diamond gets into the physically smaller groove wall indentations that represent high frequency information, while it also does a better job of recreating stereo phase information. Higher quality cartridges may have Shibata stylus profiles available, which is a geometrically improved variant of the elliptical stylus shape, which gives longer wear than elliptical type styli, but with equal or better sound.
Because the stylus shank dimensions, internal damping material, and mechanical interface to your cartridge's coil structure are all carefully matched in design, you shouldn't use replacement styli intended for other cartridge models, even of the same manufacturer. Such substitutions will probably adversely affect your cartridge, and the replacement stylus life, and in the worst case, may immediately damage your records.
For 33 RPM vinyl records in good condition, a medium quality cartridge like the Stanton 520 SK cartridge your turntable came with will probably need a new stylus every 500 playing hours, for reasons you can see in the diagrams on this page. But this will go down sharply, if your tonearm is mis-adjusted for tracking force, which should be between 2 and 5 grams. Lower is generally better, in terms of both record and stylus wear, but your turntable's tonearm may require higher tracking force to reliably track warped records. You can get inexpensive balance beam type stylus force gauges to check and accurately adjust tracking force, usually by slightly turning the tonearm counterweight, at the rear of the tonearm.
Some stores that sell replacement styli have stereo microscopes with which they can visually examine your stylus for wear. However, if your stylus has been operated in a tonearm with a tracking force adjustment much higher than the maximum for which it was designed, it's suspension can be damaged, beyond safe use, necessitating replacement, even if the stylus is not badly worn. If in doubt, replace your stylus, to save your records.
And look into the Discwasher record cleaning products, as a way to effectively clean and maintain your records. I've been a satisfied Discwasher user for more than 35 years.
posted by paulsc at 5:54 PM on October 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
Because the stylus shank dimensions, internal damping material, and mechanical interface to your cartridge's coil structure are all carefully matched in design, you shouldn't use replacement styli intended for other cartridge models, even of the same manufacturer. Such substitutions will probably adversely affect your cartridge, and the replacement stylus life, and in the worst case, may immediately damage your records.
For 33 RPM vinyl records in good condition, a medium quality cartridge like the Stanton 520 SK cartridge your turntable came with will probably need a new stylus every 500 playing hours, for reasons you can see in the diagrams on this page. But this will go down sharply, if your tonearm is mis-adjusted for tracking force, which should be between 2 and 5 grams. Lower is generally better, in terms of both record and stylus wear, but your turntable's tonearm may require higher tracking force to reliably track warped records. You can get inexpensive balance beam type stylus force gauges to check and accurately adjust tracking force, usually by slightly turning the tonearm counterweight, at the rear of the tonearm.
Some stores that sell replacement styli have stereo microscopes with which they can visually examine your stylus for wear. However, if your stylus has been operated in a tonearm with a tracking force adjustment much higher than the maximum for which it was designed, it's suspension can be damaged, beyond safe use, necessitating replacement, even if the stylus is not badly worn. If in doubt, replace your stylus, to save your records.
And look into the Discwasher record cleaning products, as a way to effectively clean and maintain your records. I've been a satisfied Discwasher user for more than 35 years.
posted by paulsc at 5:54 PM on October 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Yeah.... I clean each record before I play it.... but mainly I'm trying to figure out:
Can you significantly hear the difference between a lower quality needle and a higher quality one?
(OR a 3 year old abused needle and a newer one?)
posted by mildred-pitt at 5:56 PM on October 21, 2007
Can you significantly hear the difference between a lower quality needle and a higher quality one?
(OR a 3 year old abused needle and a newer one?)
posted by mildred-pitt at 5:56 PM on October 21, 2007
They just wear out...
I think a tremendous mixer or speakers would rock your world more impressively sound wise.. and that it's more to do with being a precision tool.
Which always makes a whole world of difference - You can't paint with a crusty old toothbrush or cut hair with crappy old scissors that couldn't cut a perforated line...
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 6:22 PM on October 21, 2007
I think a tremendous mixer or speakers would rock your world more impressively sound wise.. and that it's more to do with being a precision tool.
Which always makes a whole world of difference - You can't paint with a crusty old toothbrush or cut hair with crappy old scissors that couldn't cut a perforated line...
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 6:22 PM on October 21, 2007
The short answer is yes; new needle = new sound. To maximize the life of your needle (and your vinyl), it's important to have the anti skate properly adjusted as was already mentioned. There are many how-tos.
posted by The Wig at 6:37 PM on October 21, 2007
posted by The Wig at 6:37 PM on October 21, 2007
"... Can you significantly hear the difference between a lower quality needle and a higher quality one?
(OR a 3 year old abused needle and a newer one?)"
posted by mildred-pitt at 8:56 PM on October 21 [+] [!]
In answer to your first question, the answer is Yes. In answer your second, the answer is also Yes.
But on the first question, you generally need to replace the whole cartridge (stylus and pickup), not just "the needle," to get the best effect. For example, your 520 SK cartridge is listed as being able to reproduce 20-17,000 Hz, while better cartridges can reproduce 10-22,000 Hz, with a flatter frequency response, lower harmonic distortion, and much lower tracking force. The higher quality cartridge has better coils, lower stylus mass, better mechanical damping in the stylus, but it is not as rugged as your 520 SK, and it might need a better tone arm than your current turntable has, because of the very low tracking force it is designed to have.
If you're sticking with your SK cartridge, a new "needle" will help, noticeably. For best sound, get an elliptical diamond, if it's available.
posted by paulsc at 7:25 PM on October 21, 2007
(OR a 3 year old abused needle and a newer one?)"
posted by mildred-pitt at 8:56 PM on October 21 [+] [!]
In answer to your first question, the answer is Yes. In answer your second, the answer is also Yes.
But on the first question, you generally need to replace the whole cartridge (stylus and pickup), not just "the needle," to get the best effect. For example, your 520 SK cartridge is listed as being able to reproduce 20-17,000 Hz, while better cartridges can reproduce 10-22,000 Hz, with a flatter frequency response, lower harmonic distortion, and much lower tracking force. The higher quality cartridge has better coils, lower stylus mass, better mechanical damping in the stylus, but it is not as rugged as your 520 SK, and it might need a better tone arm than your current turntable has, because of the very low tracking force it is designed to have.
If you're sticking with your SK cartridge, a new "needle" will help, noticeably. For best sound, get an elliptical diamond, if it's available.
posted by paulsc at 7:25 PM on October 21, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dhammond at 4:58 PM on October 21, 2007