Mexican Food in NYC
April 25, 2004 2:21 PM Subscribe
Wow, there really is no good Mexican food in New York. Why? (more insidious).
I've only just arrived in LA after a long time in New York, and I don't get it - Baja Fresh, La Salsa and about a hundred other little fast-food places make Mexican food as well or better than many of New York's best-regarded places, for 1/3 the price (Mexican Radio, Gabriella's, Rocking Horse, Rosa Mexicano, etc.), and forget about Burritoville, Fresco Tortilla and its Mexi-chinese variants. These places out here are chains, not mom-and-pop joints: Why aren't they on the East Coast, too?
I've only just arrived in LA after a long time in New York, and I don't get it - Baja Fresh, La Salsa and about a hundred other little fast-food places make Mexican food as well or better than many of New York's best-regarded places, for 1/3 the price (Mexican Radio, Gabriella's, Rocking Horse, Rosa Mexicano, etc.), and forget about Burritoville, Fresco Tortilla and its Mexi-chinese variants. These places out here are chains, not mom-and-pop joints: Why aren't they on the East Coast, too?
I believe you are right that it's not very good here (and mexican is my favorite style of food)
but TACocina isn't too bad. Not worth getting excited about, but edible - like some of the others on your list.
It's weird that even the cheap low-end stuff here is much worse than the low-end stuff anywhere else.
I think this has come up on Chowhound a few times.
posted by milovoo at 2:59 PM on April 25, 2004
but TACocina isn't too bad. Not worth getting excited about, but edible - like some of the others on your list.
It's weird that even the cheap low-end stuff here is much worse than the low-end stuff anywhere else.
I think this has come up on Chowhound a few times.
posted by milovoo at 2:59 PM on April 25, 2004
Um, Sinner, you may have noticed by now that a huge proportion of the population of LA is of Mexican descent. You think that might have something to do with it? There were virtually no Mexicans in NY up until something over a decade ago; suddenly in the mid-to-late '90s they started coming in large numbers, and lo and behold, we started getting good Mexican food. I take violent exception to your "there really is no good Mexican food in New York"; if you couldn't find it, you weren't looking. There are great little taqerias and panaderias scattered throughout Queens and on out-of-the-way blocks of Ninth Avenue (note to New Yorkers -- check out Los Dos Rancheros Mexicanos). If you limited yourself to fancy places in Manhattan, of course you paid through the nose. I had the best tamales I'd had in years at a little place in Astoria ten years ago; alas, they went out of business, but there are plenty more where that came from. Don't mess with me about Mexican food: I spent years in SoCal, taking for granted that I could pop down to Pico Blvd for a great enchilada any time I wanted, then I spent years complaining about the lack of Mexican in NYC, and finally I rejoiced that it had come at last. Enjoy the food in LA, count your blessings, but don't start pissing on NY just because you left, or when you come back for a visit we'll steal your hubcaps and make fun of your clothes.
posted by languagehat at 2:59 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by languagehat at 2:59 PM on April 25, 2004
languagehat hit it right on the nose, so I won't add to his explanation.
I will tell you though, that you won't find a great slice of pizza anywhere except Damiano's across the street from Cantor's Deli. Also, it is harder to find great bagels in LA too.
posted by gen at 3:04 PM on April 25, 2004
I will tell you though, that you won't find a great slice of pizza anywhere except Damiano's across the street from Cantor's Deli. Also, it is harder to find great bagels in LA too.
posted by gen at 3:04 PM on April 25, 2004
Oh but languagehat, you can always find something good if you look hard enough. I too had some great tamales at a little place in the Bronx where nobody really spoke English. The general point still stands. The West enjoys an Aztec king's treasure of great Mexican food while the East coast remains impoverished.
The lack of Mexican people is telling. I think the initial primary consumers of Mexican food are other Mexicans. If there is enough of them they create a sort of incubation environment where the quality is raised high enough that outsiders (non mexican food regulars) begin to take interest.
San Francisco has the best burritos on the planet. This is thanks to a Latin-dominated ten square block area here called the Mission where there are avid consumers and competition is fierce.
NYC Mexican does suck even though I too fell prey to moments of wishful self-deception when I was there.
And I say all this as a) a Mexican-american b) Someone who grew up in San Diego and whose parents friends own the Roberto's chain c) Someone who lived in NYC for three years. Still, I'll keep an eye on my hubcaps. ;)
posted by vacapinta at 3:16 PM on April 25, 2004
The lack of Mexican people is telling. I think the initial primary consumers of Mexican food are other Mexicans. If there is enough of them they create a sort of incubation environment where the quality is raised high enough that outsiders (non mexican food regulars) begin to take interest.
San Francisco has the best burritos on the planet. This is thanks to a Latin-dominated ten square block area here called the Mission where there are avid consumers and competition is fierce.
NYC Mexican does suck even though I too fell prey to moments of wishful self-deception when I was there.
And I say all this as a) a Mexican-american b) Someone who grew up in San Diego and whose parents friends own the Roberto's chain c) Someone who lived in NYC for three years. Still, I'll keep an eye on my hubcaps. ;)
posted by vacapinta at 3:16 PM on April 25, 2004
vacapinta is absolutely correct. There are 20 or more Mexican places within 2 miles of my apartment that are better than anything I've seen anywhere on the East Coast, although I haven't been to the Queens enclave that languagehat mentions. It's just that there's *so* much here. Hell, Mexico itself is within 16 miles of my apartment.
posted by LionIndex at 3:33 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by LionIndex at 3:33 PM on April 25, 2004
I've never been there myself, but a good friend of mine who spent a semester in mexico raved about Mama Mexico. Apparently they are famous for their guacamole, which gets made tableside to your desired level of spiciness.
posted by rorycberger at 3:50 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by rorycberger at 3:50 PM on April 25, 2004
Mama Mexico is good and their guac is pretty darn good, but it's bloody expensive!! I'd rather buy a return ticket to Fairfield CT, go to La Salsa and have lunch there, and it'd still be cheaper than Mama Mexico! Oh Cafe Frida by the museum of natural history is pretty good too, they make the guac tableside too, try their enchiladas in green sauce, again pricey, but good! I think the mexican joint on University Pl, I forget it's name, but they have a sign saying "Best Fajitas in NYC", they're pretty decent too, albeit expensive.
Honestly the best damn burrito in NYC right now, at least for a vegetarian, is Chipotle, and that speaks volumes about NYC's Mexican food.
posted by riffola at 3:59 PM on April 25, 2004
Honestly the best damn burrito in NYC right now, at least for a vegetarian, is Chipotle, and that speaks volumes about NYC's Mexican food.
posted by riffola at 3:59 PM on April 25, 2004
about 4 years ago i was in a snazzy "mexican" place in NYC, I asked the waiter about the burrito I saw on the menu...looked tasty. He asked me where I was from, "California".
"Ah" said he. "This burrito is an appetizer....about as long as your pinky finger...i'd recommend an entre."
an $9 dollar mini burrito would get you run out of town in california.
all hail the central californian Taco Truck. That is where you find the best food. Someone could make a killing exporting Taco Trucks to Seattle and NYC.
posted by th3ph17 at 4:42 PM on April 25, 2004
"Ah" said he. "This burrito is an appetizer....about as long as your pinky finger...i'd recommend an entre."
an $9 dollar mini burrito would get you run out of town in california.
all hail the central californian Taco Truck. That is where you find the best food. Someone could make a killing exporting Taco Trucks to Seattle and NYC.
posted by th3ph17 at 4:42 PM on April 25, 2004
The West enjoys an Aztec king's treasure of great Mexican food while the East coast remains impoverished.
Well, yeah! SoCal is an extension of Mexico, for chrissake! They have a lot of Mexican food in Mexico City, too. That's not the point; the point is you used to couldn't get good Mexican in NYC, and now you can, and I'm damned if I'll stand for anyone saying different.
I too had some great tamales at a little place in the Bronx where nobody really spoke English... NYC Mexican does suck...
I'm at a loss here. Does it suck or doesn't it? To my mind, "great tamales" = "doesn't suck." The fact that it's harder to find here is another matter. Watch your hubcaps, sucka!
posted by languagehat at 5:30 PM on April 25, 2004
Well, yeah! SoCal is an extension of Mexico, for chrissake! They have a lot of Mexican food in Mexico City, too. That's not the point; the point is you used to couldn't get good Mexican in NYC, and now you can, and I'm damned if I'll stand for anyone saying different.
I too had some great tamales at a little place in the Bronx where nobody really spoke English... NYC Mexican does suck...
I'm at a loss here. Does it suck or doesn't it? To my mind, "great tamales" = "doesn't suck." The fact that it's harder to find here is another matter. Watch your hubcaps, sucka!
posted by languagehat at 5:30 PM on April 25, 2004
Wow, vacapinta, Roberto's is my favorite chain on earth and I eat there at least once a day whenever I'm in San Diego county visiting family (my favorite location is the one near del mar, I think in encinitas).
Since I've moved to Oregon, I've been craving good mexican food and even though Oregon is largely white (a staggering 85% of the population) the biggest minority are mexican-american and I've found the only real mexican food can be had at one or two sketchy looking places that cater to a non-white audience. I can't begin to describe how terrible the food is at average mexican restaurants in Oregon. I suppose that's how isolated populations of whites like their food, terribly bland and lifeless.
posted by mathowie at 5:51 PM on April 25, 2004
Since I've moved to Oregon, I've been craving good mexican food and even though Oregon is largely white (a staggering 85% of the population) the biggest minority are mexican-american and I've found the only real mexican food can be had at one or two sketchy looking places that cater to a non-white audience. I can't begin to describe how terrible the food is at average mexican restaurants in Oregon. I suppose that's how isolated populations of whites like their food, terribly bland and lifeless.
posted by mathowie at 5:51 PM on April 25, 2004
Oh, the Taco Truck! How I love thee, Taco Truck Woman and your carnitas tostadas!
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 6:01 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 6:01 PM on April 25, 2004
etiquette question:
if one is not a Latino, is it OK to address the server in a Mexican place in Spanish or is that considered somehow patronizing (like they think you assume they can't speak English)?
I've always spoken in Spanish to the staff of the Mexican joints I visited, out of courtesy (since neither English nor Spanish are my frist language, well, at least let's talk ina Language one of us really knows well) but I've recently encountered (in LA, at a couple heavenly but pretty run-down Mexican joints) a few unhappy glances, but maybe it was just my pronunciation (too Castellano, not enough Mexican).
I just don't know -- I'm mostly clueless about such things.
any ideas?
posted by matteo at 6:17 PM on April 25, 2004
if one is not a Latino, is it OK to address the server in a Mexican place in Spanish or is that considered somehow patronizing (like they think you assume they can't speak English)?
I've always spoken in Spanish to the staff of the Mexican joints I visited, out of courtesy (since neither English nor Spanish are my frist language, well, at least let's talk ina Language one of us really knows well) but I've recently encountered (in LA, at a couple heavenly but pretty run-down Mexican joints) a few unhappy glances, but maybe it was just my pronunciation (too Castellano, not enough Mexican).
I just don't know -- I'm mostly clueless about such things.
any ideas?
posted by matteo at 6:17 PM on April 25, 2004
This thread is reminding me that when I went home for spring break I forgot to go to Super Pollo. Dammit.
posted by kenko at 6:48 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by kenko at 6:48 PM on April 25, 2004
I'm an SF person going to school in Boston now, and boy does the Mexican food here suck. I'd kill for a taco truck somewhere.
posted by swank6 at 7:16 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by swank6 at 7:16 PM on April 25, 2004
Maryanne's is pretty good... on the fancy side, tho'.
And that chinese-run place, I think just called "fresca", somewhere around 30th st - v. cheap, and not bad.
But my cali friends are amazed that a benny's burrito costs $7 and isn't as good as a $3 street vendor lunch in LA. I guess for most of us living here, it seems good enough...
posted by mdn at 7:56 PM on April 25, 2004
And that chinese-run place, I think just called "fresca", somewhere around 30th st - v. cheap, and not bad.
But my cali friends are amazed that a benny's burrito costs $7 and isn't as good as a $3 street vendor lunch in LA. I guess for most of us living here, it seems good enough...
posted by mdn at 7:56 PM on April 25, 2004
When I lived in NYC, I liked the Caliente Cab Company on Bleeker. Excellent margaritas (even better than many here in Texas).
posted by amandaudoff at 8:18 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by amandaudoff at 8:18 PM on April 25, 2004
Baja Fresh totally fails to suck. Well, the food at Baja Fresh totally fails to suck. It's not the most inviting decor.
posted by NortonDC at 8:23 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by NortonDC at 8:23 PM on April 25, 2004
I'm in houston, we have good mexican, but really chipotle isn't bad, if that's all you have, i mean hell, it's not some weird pinky size burrito. It is chain and corporate, but the quality is pretty good and they are fast.
someone told me about that place called burritoville, that is hilarious.
posted by rhyax at 8:38 PM on April 25, 2004
someone told me about that place called burritoville, that is hilarious.
posted by rhyax at 8:38 PM on April 25, 2004
burritoville is only good for drinking in, and even that's really annoying.
posted by amberglow at 8:41 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by amberglow at 8:41 PM on April 25, 2004
Response by poster: Late back to my own thread; how embarassing. Languagehat, hopefully you understood that my question was really more about New York's lack of Baja Fresh- and La Salsa-style fast-but-good Mexican. I hardly believe that their quality has anything to do with the high concentration of Mexicans here. They're chains, after all.
posted by Sinner at 8:46 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by Sinner at 8:46 PM on April 25, 2004
Response by poster: Though I left just as it arrived, friends of mine extolled the virtues of Chipotle (which I vaguely recall as being a McDonald's property). I won't argue that there's no good Mexican in New York, but forgetting that for the moment, I can't for the life of me figure out why someone couldn't bring La Salsa-style chain Mexican to the East Coast. Can someone explain the barriers to entry for me without getting their panties in a twist about LA v. NY (I'm looking at you, languagehat).
posted by Sinner at 8:54 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by Sinner at 8:54 PM on April 25, 2004
Vidiot, La Salsa has a location in Fairfield, and they are about as expensive as Taco Bell, and they have a killer salsa bar! Amazing fresh salsa made daily, from mild to super hot habenero salsa, with quirky salsas such as a mango salsa. The salsa bar is the biggest reason to go to La Salsa. The food is decent but the salsa bar is what makes it worth a mention.
posted by riffola at 9:09 PM on April 25, 2004
posted by riffola at 9:09 PM on April 25, 2004
Would someone please open a Baja Fresh in Tokyo?
PLEASE!?!?!
I promise to bring all my friends...
posted by gen at 9:34 PM on April 25, 2004
PLEASE!?!?!
I promise to bring all my friends...
posted by gen at 9:34 PM on April 25, 2004
Being an Arizona to New York transplant, I do have to say that the Mexican food here is weak. The newly opened Chipotles are alright, but a burrito is about two bucks more expensive than they were back home. In my book, six fifty is too much to pay for a burrito at a fast food joint, no matter how big the damned thing is.
One place which I have found to be OK, if not great, is Burrito Loco in the Village. Relatively cheap, consistent atmosphere, full bar (this could be why I enjoy their food). Everything else around that area utterly, utterly blows. What pisses me off most is the transparency of the terms on the menu. Nine times out of ten, if you order something that you think you recognize, you'll just end up getting a glorified burrito and some terrible pico de gallo.
The one culinary institution that I really miss from back home is a place called Filiberto's, which is probably the cheapest, bestest Mexican food ever. Plus, they're open twenty four hours a day. Nothing like a chorizo burrito at three thirty in the morning to really wrap up an evening.
posted by mmcg at 9:35 PM on April 25, 2004
One place which I have found to be OK, if not great, is Burrito Loco in the Village. Relatively cheap, consistent atmosphere, full bar (this could be why I enjoy their food). Everything else around that area utterly, utterly blows. What pisses me off most is the transparency of the terms on the menu. Nine times out of ten, if you order something that you think you recognize, you'll just end up getting a glorified burrito and some terrible pico de gallo.
The one culinary institution that I really miss from back home is a place called Filiberto's, which is probably the cheapest, bestest Mexican food ever. Plus, they're open twenty four hours a day. Nothing like a chorizo burrito at three thirty in the morning to really wrap up an evening.
posted by mmcg at 9:35 PM on April 25, 2004
If Baja Fresh and La Salsa are your idea of good mexican food, then you're not in a great position to judge where the good stuff is.
I'm sure New York has some good Mexican, since it has everything under the sun, but at the same time, you've got to note how far New York is from Mexico, and grant that you're closer to the source somewhere like southern CA.
Can someone explain the barriers to entry for me
Inability to hire anyone who's made a burrito before? Just a wild guess.
posted by scarabic at 9:49 PM on April 25, 2004
I'm sure New York has some good Mexican, since it has everything under the sun, but at the same time, you've got to note how far New York is from Mexico, and grant that you're closer to the source somewhere like southern CA.
Can someone explain the barriers to entry for me
Inability to hire anyone who's made a burrito before? Just a wild guess.
posted by scarabic at 9:49 PM on April 25, 2004
Response by poster: scarabic - If Baja Fresh and La Salsa are your idea of good mexican food, then you're not in a great position to judge where the good stuff is.
You'll note that you're the only person in this entire thread to complain about the quality of BF and LS, but it's always good to know that no matter how innocuous the question, someone on *Meta* will find a way to smugly out-hipster you.
Pray tell, scarabic, where did you happen on the "great stuff?" Have you written "an around the culinary world with scarabic" food guide that I could borrow, to save you the trouble of responding here? Or should I just start driving South until I find some desolate shack in Mexico?
scarabic - Inability to hire anyone who's made a burrito before? Just a wild guess.
Another good one - your get-snarkier-in-just-thirty-days Charles Atlas guide is working. Obviously, you're correct. New York is completely bereft of Mexicans. Empty entirely. Thanks for your contribution.
posted by Sinner at 10:03 PM on April 25, 2004
You'll note that you're the only person in this entire thread to complain about the quality of BF and LS, but it's always good to know that no matter how innocuous the question, someone on *Meta* will find a way to smugly out-hipster you.
Pray tell, scarabic, where did you happen on the "great stuff?" Have you written "an around the culinary world with scarabic" food guide that I could borrow, to save you the trouble of responding here? Or should I just start driving South until I find some desolate shack in Mexico?
scarabic - Inability to hire anyone who's made a burrito before? Just a wild guess.
Another good one - your get-snarkier-in-just-thirty-days Charles Atlas guide is working. Obviously, you're correct. New York is completely bereft of Mexicans. Empty entirely. Thanks for your contribution.
posted by Sinner at 10:03 PM on April 25, 2004
Is there any such thing as decent Mexican food near London? That its arrived in NYC is great news.
I don't know how Mexican it is, but the chain El Pollo Loco from SoCal, I think, could make a huge splash in the fast food business across the states, and maybe beyond. Yum, not-fried, fast chicken!
I've found one good Mexican place in Europe, and that's in an out-of-the-way small town in southern Netherlands, near Maastrict. I only know it because a Belgian friend plays there in a Mariachi band.
posted by Goofyy at 11:09 PM on April 25, 2004
I don't know how Mexican it is, but the chain El Pollo Loco from SoCal, I think, could make a huge splash in the fast food business across the states, and maybe beyond. Yum, not-fried, fast chicken!
I've found one good Mexican place in Europe, and that's in an out-of-the-way small town in southern Netherlands, near Maastrict. I only know it because a Belgian friend plays there in a Mariachi band.
posted by Goofyy at 11:09 PM on April 25, 2004
I'm at a loss here. Does it suck or doesn't it? To my mind, "great tamales" = "doesn't suck." The fact that it's harder to find here is another matter. Watch your hubcaps, sucka!
Well, it generally sucks but I grant that there are exceptions. One thing I learned about New Yorkers is that they don't like being told they are not the center of the world in every aspect. (Most yes, but not every)
In any case languagehat, it sounds like I'll have to buy you a beer next time I'm in NYC - at least for the sake of my hubcaps. :)
posted by vacapinta at 11:15 PM on April 25, 2004
Well, it generally sucks but I grant that there are exceptions. One thing I learned about New Yorkers is that they don't like being told they are not the center of the world in every aspect. (Most yes, but not every)
In any case languagehat, it sounds like I'll have to buy you a beer next time I'm in NYC - at least for the sake of my hubcaps. :)
posted by vacapinta at 11:15 PM on April 25, 2004
What Languagehat said. Since NAFTA, more Mexicans have been coming to the NY region, but almost all of them are from the state of Puebla, with their own ideas about how to cook Mexican untainted by LA fast Mexican chains. LA's Mexican population tends to originate in other regions of Mexico. If you walk around AMsterdam Avenue up around 106th Street in manhattan, you'll find a lot of small family places serving food from Puebla. There is even a Poblano community Center someplace around 105th St. Also the Bronx and parts of New Jersey.
Then again, where on the west coast can you find good Haitian or Dominican food?
posted by zaelic at 12:45 AM on April 26, 2004
Then again, where on the west coast can you find good Haitian or Dominican food?
posted by zaelic at 12:45 AM on April 26, 2004
mmcg: mmm, Filiberto's. I grew up in Phoenix, and I remember it well.
When I lived in NYC, I was also discouraged by the lack of good Mexican food. However, there is a place in Hoboken (the name escapes me at the moment) that has amazing Mexican food - I'll see if I can dig up the name of the place, because it absolutely blew me away.
Of course, now I live in L.A., and I'm spoiled rotten because I live in an area that is almost entirely Latino, so we get taco carts on the corner with $2 carne asada that would knock your socks off.
posted by bedhead at 3:01 AM on April 26, 2004
When I lived in NYC, I was also discouraged by the lack of good Mexican food. However, there is a place in Hoboken (the name escapes me at the moment) that has amazing Mexican food - I'll see if I can dig up the name of the place, because it absolutely blew me away.
Of course, now I live in L.A., and I'm spoiled rotten because I live in an area that is almost entirely Latino, so we get taco carts on the corner with $2 carne asada that would knock your socks off.
posted by bedhead at 3:01 AM on April 26, 2004
Slightly OT: When I moved out to the Bay Area from Miami for college, I loved the availability of quality cheap Mexican food, but every day that went by found me with a stronger longing for a good Cuban sandwich. The first restaurant that I found that even came close (they remembered the pickles, and the plantains on the side were quality) was in LA, and somewhat ironically named El Floridita.
The next time I had Cuban food in CA? Asia de Cuba in the base of SF's Clift Hotel. One of the most expensive meals I've ever eaten (counting Chez Panisse), but the food was excellent, and I had my very first orgasmic dessert.
posted by quasistoic at 4:49 AM on April 26, 2004
The next time I had Cuban food in CA? Asia de Cuba in the base of SF's Clift Hotel. One of the most expensive meals I've ever eaten (counting Chez Panisse), but the food was excellent, and I had my very first orgasmic dessert.
posted by quasistoic at 4:49 AM on April 26, 2004
You'll note that you're the only person in this entire thread to complain about the quality of BF and LS, but it's always good to know that no matter how innocuous the question, someone on *Meta* will find a way to smugly out-hipster you.
If I'd ever deigned to actually patronize one of these places, yeah, I'd be complaining about the food there.
/smug
Back on topic, there are plenty of fast-food chains in CA that haven't made it back east yet--Carls Jr., Jack in the Box, In-N-Out... And we don't have Hardee's out here, at least that I've seen.
posted by LionIndex at 6:46 AM on April 26, 2004
If I'd ever deigned to actually patronize one of these places, yeah, I'd be complaining about the food there.
/smug
Back on topic, there are plenty of fast-food chains in CA that haven't made it back east yet--Carls Jr., Jack in the Box, In-N-Out... And we don't have Hardee's out here, at least that I've seen.
posted by LionIndex at 6:46 AM on April 26, 2004
My favorite mexican: Mexican Radio in Cleveland Place, Bean in Williamsburg, and the no-name tacaria on the SE corner of 111th & Lex. I had a project site in Spanish Harlem, and was able to eat my way from the subway to the job site.
Since living in SF I cannot eat a burrito anywhere else; I don't even try. Chipotle was owned by McDonalds, but they divested awhile ago [if memory serves me]. They have the best burritos, unfortunately, in NYC.
And matteo, I am not spanish, but I always try to speak the language of where I am eating. It is just more fun [especially since I live in a polish area - try speaking polish! It is hard] and I feel that I tend to get better service.
posted by plemeljr at 7:04 AM on April 26, 2004
Since living in SF I cannot eat a burrito anywhere else; I don't even try. Chipotle was owned by McDonalds, but they divested awhile ago [if memory serves me]. They have the best burritos, unfortunately, in NYC.
And matteo, I am not spanish, but I always try to speak the language of where I am eating. It is just more fun [especially since I live in a polish area - try speaking polish! It is hard] and I feel that I tend to get better service.
posted by plemeljr at 7:04 AM on April 26, 2004
When I first arrived in NYC in '90, Mexican food was a disgrace, but as a Pennsylvania boy, what did I know? Believe me, it's gotten WAY better. It's still not Cali, but it's serviceable if you're willing to look.
First and foremost, avoid any place named "Mezcal's". I think they're all independently run and just coincidentally-named, but every one I've been to is sub-par.
Mexican Radio is pretty good, though a bit pricey. Now that I'm moving to Park Slope, I've been discovering a few good places around 4th Avenue- Maria's on 4th & Union is really good, and the (even tinier) place next door sells some of the best tamales I've ever had. The Mexican Sandwich Company, on 5th & 1st, is apparently, while not authentic, pretty damn good.
posted by mkultra at 7:19 AM on April 26, 2004
First and foremost, avoid any place named "Mezcal's". I think they're all independently run and just coincidentally-named, but every one I've been to is sub-par.
Mexican Radio is pretty good, though a bit pricey. Now that I'm moving to Park Slope, I've been discovering a few good places around 4th Avenue- Maria's on 4th & Union is really good, and the (even tinier) place next door sells some of the best tamales I've ever had. The Mexican Sandwich Company, on 5th & 1st, is apparently, while not authentic, pretty damn good.
posted by mkultra at 7:19 AM on April 26, 2004
I was on St. Marks in the Village a few months back and saw that a Chipotle had gone into that huge building across from Dojo (the one that used to look like a crazy art studio/crack house). I was lamenting the fact that a chain restaurant had infiltrated that area, but if it is as this thread suggests some of the best Mexican in NYC I'll have to give it a shot.
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:15 AM on April 26, 2004
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:15 AM on April 26, 2004
Can someone explain the barriers to entry for me without getting their panties in a twist about LA v. NY (I'm looking at you, languagehat).
Yo, go back and read your post and tell me who started it. But I'm willing to drop the Coastal Challenge if you are. However, I cannot answer the question.
matteo: I've never had a problem using Spanish with people in Mexican restaurants.
The rest of you: I hereby refuse to take seriously anyone who judges Mexican food by burritos. Have you ever been to Mexico? Did you notice people eating burritos there? In Mexico, burritos are little donkeys. Nothing against burritos, which are a convenient way to consume a lot of carbohydrates for lunch, but tacos, enchiladas, sopes, moles, and regional specialties are where it's at. And I don't understand the big deal about "fast food" places. A tacqueria is about as fast as it gets, and your $2 taco will be chock full of meaty goodness and tastier than you're likely to get at your favorite chain.
posted by languagehat at 10:02 AM on April 26, 2004
Yo, go back and read your post and tell me who started it. But I'm willing to drop the Coastal Challenge if you are. However, I cannot answer the question.
matteo: I've never had a problem using Spanish with people in Mexican restaurants.
The rest of you: I hereby refuse to take seriously anyone who judges Mexican food by burritos. Have you ever been to Mexico? Did you notice people eating burritos there? In Mexico, burritos are little donkeys. Nothing against burritos, which are a convenient way to consume a lot of carbohydrates for lunch, but tacos, enchiladas, sopes, moles, and regional specialties are where it's at. And I don't understand the big deal about "fast food" places. A tacqueria is about as fast as it gets, and your $2 taco will be chock full of meaty goodness and tastier than you're likely to get at your favorite chain.
posted by languagehat at 10:02 AM on April 26, 2004
According to this page, there were 186,872 Mexicans recorded in the 2000 census in New York City. That is a small number, putting NYC only at number 11 in a ranking of American cities with Mexican populations. But, as this Newsday story points out, that's triple the number which were in NYC just ten years earlier.
For the record: the Fresca Tortilla places are abominations, and Language Hat, I got yer back. Your analysis of Mexican food in New York City is spot-on.
posted by Mo Nickels at 10:31 AM on April 26, 2004
For the record: the Fresca Tortilla places are abominations, and Language Hat, I got yer back. Your analysis of Mexican food in New York City is spot-on.
posted by Mo Nickels at 10:31 AM on April 26, 2004
Two excellent places for Mexican food in New York (though this is meaningless for you Manhattanites who believe the city begins at the Battery and ends at Inwood Columbia):
Alma, in Carroll Gardens/Red Hookish. Slightly more upscale (~$15/plate), Oaxacan cuisine.
Cafe Mexicano, cheap take-out place on the border of Gowanus/Park Slope, with quite good tamales.
And in Boston, just for you, swank6:
El Pelon Taqueria in Fenway. Top notch, really.
posted by The Michael The at 10:36 AM on April 26, 2004
Alma, in Carroll Gardens/Red Hookish. Slightly more upscale (~$15/plate), Oaxacan cuisine.
Cafe Mexicano, cheap take-out place on the border of Gowanus/Park Slope, with quite good tamales.
And in Boston, just for you, swank6:
El Pelon Taqueria in Fenway. Top notch, really.
posted by The Michael The at 10:36 AM on April 26, 2004
Also, Languagehat is dead-on.
posted by The Michael The at 10:37 AM on April 26, 2004
posted by The Michael The at 10:37 AM on April 26, 2004
Castro's on Myrtle Avenue in Clinton Hill, Brooklyn, always eases my nostalgia for the Mexican cuisine of California. There are actually more and more Mexican joints as the Mexican population, a relative newcomer to the city's Hispanic scene, grows larger. We have also had some really good Peruvian food in Park Slope, Brooklyn, recently. Not quite that amazing taco-truck experience, but yummy on its own merits.
posted by hairyeyeball at 10:53 AM on April 26, 2004
posted by hairyeyeball at 10:53 AM on April 26, 2004
Oh, and Rosa Mexicana across from the Met, and the fusiony Miracle Grill (chipotle everything and blood-orange margaritas!) in the East Village.
posted by hairyeyeball at 10:55 AM on April 26, 2004
posted by hairyeyeball at 10:55 AM on April 26, 2004
Down here in Texas, we have this bastardized version of "Authentic Mexican" food referred to as "Tex-Mex."
I hate it, but there are tons of Tex-Mex restaurants out this way, so I guess someone is eating it.
As a rule, I don't eat at any Mexican place that doesn't have Lingua on the menu.
posted by bradth27 at 11:09 AM on April 26, 2004
I hate it, but there are tons of Tex-Mex restaurants out this way, so I guess someone is eating it.
As a rule, I don't eat at any Mexican place that doesn't have Lingua on the menu.
posted by bradth27 at 11:09 AM on April 26, 2004
Yes, props to TMT- Café Mexicano is the place I was referring to with the amazing tamales. Though, I must say I found Alma overrated.
And, to echo Languagehat once more- yeah, no one I saw in Mexico (granted, I was only in Baja) ate burritos. It was all about the taco, best prepared by an elderly woman on the side of the road.
posted by mkultra at 11:23 AM on April 26, 2004
And, to echo Languagehat once more- yeah, no one I saw in Mexico (granted, I was only in Baja) ate burritos. It was all about the taco, best prepared by an elderly woman on the side of the road.
posted by mkultra at 11:23 AM on April 26, 2004
I go to the Fairfield, CT La Salsa ALL THE TIME (2 chicken tacos, no cheese and an order of black beans) - I live and work 5 mintues away in Bridgeport. I can tell you that it's fabulous every time I go. This girl's all about the "Buena" salsa. Mmmmmmmms. In Fairfield, there is also a place called "Villa Del Sol" in the Brick Walk near downtown that's really good, although it's more of a sit-down restaurant rather than a take-out kinda place like La Salsa.
As far as NYC goes (I commute to school there), Maryann's is the one Mexican place that I've been several times with friends. I was actually there on Friday night (2nd Ave & 5th St.), and even though it was loud and crowded, it was still wonderful and tasty. And who can argue with margaritas served in pint-size glasses?
Of course, I'm a white girl from the suburbs, so what do I know? (I kid, I kid!)
posted by AlisonM at 11:41 AM on April 26, 2004
As far as NYC goes (I commute to school there), Maryann's is the one Mexican place that I've been several times with friends. I was actually there on Friday night (2nd Ave & 5th St.), and even though it was loud and crowded, it was still wonderful and tasty. And who can argue with margaritas served in pint-size glasses?
Of course, I'm a white girl from the suburbs, so what do I know? (I kid, I kid!)
posted by AlisonM at 11:41 AM on April 26, 2004
Burritos are pretty much unheard of in Mexico because the flour tortilla, required to make anything burrito size, is a rare concept there. Outside of Chihuahua, it's all corn tortillas, pretty much limiting the menu to tacos. One of the founders of Burrito Bros, a DC chain, wrote a large article on the subject a few years back when he went in search of the origin of the burrito.
posted by LionIndex at 11:42 AM on April 26, 2004
posted by LionIndex at 11:42 AM on April 26, 2004
oh, bah. I'm the one who wrote this comment a while back. Of course burritos aren't Mexican but its not a huge variation on the taco. I refuse to get into an authenticity discussion. I've never found any good tamales nejos outside of Mexico but that doesnt mean Mexican food hasnt arrived.
The best places here in the Mission are small restaurants with a kitchen backed by an elder Mexican grandmother. They'll make whatever you want off-menu and the menu does usually include burritos.
The Mexican here is also a culture of fusion, old recipes combining with new ingredients. The mostly mexican crowd shows up in the morning and slurps down their menudo. By the afternoon, the taco con cabeza crowd is mixing with the flour burrito with chicken crowd. But its the same kitchen and the same ingredients.
Anyone who dismisses the burrito hasn't been to San Francisco. Here its done not as a bastardization but as an extension of Mexican cuisine.
posted by vacapinta at 12:06 PM on April 26, 2004
The best places here in the Mission are small restaurants with a kitchen backed by an elder Mexican grandmother. They'll make whatever you want off-menu and the menu does usually include burritos.
The Mexican here is also a culture of fusion, old recipes combining with new ingredients. The mostly mexican crowd shows up in the morning and slurps down their menudo. By the afternoon, the taco con cabeza crowd is mixing with the flour burrito with chicken crowd. But its the same kitchen and the same ingredients.
Anyone who dismisses the burrito hasn't been to San Francisco. Here its done not as a bastardization but as an extension of Mexican cuisine.
posted by vacapinta at 12:06 PM on April 26, 2004
my favorite mexican food is better than your favorite mexican food!
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 12:34 PM on April 26, 2004
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 12:34 PM on April 26, 2004
Sinner, I've wondered often about this too. As it seems like easy money for the Restaurant "food chains". Think you may find an answer from the comments.
>In-N-Out...
Them being family owned may add here. A reason I see them not in Texas is the physical distance between California that it would create within the family while running it.
>Down here in Texas, we have this bastardized version of "Authentic Mexican" food referred to as "Tex-Mex." As a rule, I don't eat at any Mexican place that doesn't have Lingua on the menu.
>I suppose that's how isolated populations of whites like their food, terribly bland and lifeless.
Think it may because “hot” food or the seasoning used in the food is not an appetizer to the locals' taste buds so the notion of eating it ruins their hunger. Then add the local food is what they grew up on and anything else is exotic bad.
>I don't know how Mexican it is, but the chain El Pollo Loco from SoCal, I think, could make a huge splash in the fast food business across the states, and maybe beyond. Yum, not-fried, fast chicken!
This is one that my transplanted coworkers discuss often then realize beef is more popular in Texas than chicken; even among the dieting crowd.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:25 PM on April 26, 2004
>In-N-Out...
Them being family owned may add here. A reason I see them not in Texas is the physical distance between California that it would create within the family while running it.
>Down here in Texas, we have this bastardized version of "Authentic Mexican" food referred to as "Tex-Mex." As a rule, I don't eat at any Mexican place that doesn't have Lingua on the menu.
>I suppose that's how isolated populations of whites like their food, terribly bland and lifeless.
Think it may because “hot” food or the seasoning used in the food is not an appetizer to the locals' taste buds so the notion of eating it ruins their hunger. Then add the local food is what they grew up on and anything else is exotic bad.
>I don't know how Mexican it is, but the chain El Pollo Loco from SoCal, I think, could make a huge splash in the fast food business across the states, and maybe beyond. Yum, not-fried, fast chicken!
This is one that my transplanted coworkers discuss often then realize beef is more popular in Texas than chicken; even among the dieting crowd.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:25 PM on April 26, 2004
I think it's funny that anyone would think that tex-mex was "hot".
As a native New Mexican, I'm very snobbish about so-called "mexican" food. But I've learned to refer to what I like as "New Mexican" food because, really, Mexico has a great many regional cuisines and pretty much none of the US versions of "mexican" food are them. (And NM cuisine is really pretty distinct as the long-isolated most distant outpost of Spain/Mexico.)
I find that if I have to choose between tex-mex and coastal or interior "mexican" food, I prefer the latter; as the real sin of tex-mex to my palate is incredible blandness (or, tellingly, spiced too hot with--you guessed it--jalapenos). What I've had of what I've thought of as "Californian" or "Arizonian" mexican food has been a bit too bland for my taste, but still superior to tex-mex.
The main point is that generalizations about so-called "mexican" food are suspect. How many of you merkins would generalize about "American food"?
That said, if there were one sweeping judgment I'd be willing to make and believe that it was reasonably accurate, it's that the more that the so-called "mexican food" is anglo-inflected, the worse it is.
Being a New Mexican, however, I might mention the example of what we anglos call "green chile" and the hispanics call "chile verde". It's a staple of NM food, even McDonald's will provide you with green chile for their hamburgers. I have a hard time finding this anywhere in Texas, not even in large cities like Austin. (I will say, however, that living in Texas has made me a fan of chipotles and chipotle salsa.) But a friend of mine who lives in Manhatten has said that he can find green chile at various markets. I mean, c'mon. It's New York. Can't you find the best of any cuisine, and middle-of-the-night-takeout-or-delivery, at that?
I'm so jealous.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:40 PM on April 26, 2004
As a native New Mexican, I'm very snobbish about so-called "mexican" food. But I've learned to refer to what I like as "New Mexican" food because, really, Mexico has a great many regional cuisines and pretty much none of the US versions of "mexican" food are them. (And NM cuisine is really pretty distinct as the long-isolated most distant outpost of Spain/Mexico.)
I find that if I have to choose between tex-mex and coastal or interior "mexican" food, I prefer the latter; as the real sin of tex-mex to my palate is incredible blandness (or, tellingly, spiced too hot with--you guessed it--jalapenos). What I've had of what I've thought of as "Californian" or "Arizonian" mexican food has been a bit too bland for my taste, but still superior to tex-mex.
The main point is that generalizations about so-called "mexican" food are suspect. How many of you merkins would generalize about "American food"?
That said, if there were one sweeping judgment I'd be willing to make and believe that it was reasonably accurate, it's that the more that the so-called "mexican food" is anglo-inflected, the worse it is.
Being a New Mexican, however, I might mention the example of what we anglos call "green chile" and the hispanics call "chile verde". It's a staple of NM food, even McDonald's will provide you with green chile for their hamburgers. I have a hard time finding this anywhere in Texas, not even in large cities like Austin. (I will say, however, that living in Texas has made me a fan of chipotles and chipotle salsa.) But a friend of mine who lives in Manhatten has said that he can find green chile at various markets. I mean, c'mon. It's New York. Can't you find the best of any cuisine, and middle-of-the-night-takeout-or-delivery, at that?
I'm so jealous.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:40 PM on April 26, 2004
Ethereal Bligh, at Taco Hell(sic) they have packets of green sauce behind the counter. You may have to ask the manager as the only one whom knows where they're kept.
posted by thomcatspike at 2:53 PM on April 26, 2004
posted by thomcatspike at 2:53 PM on April 26, 2004
Well, outside of New Mexico, "green" doesn't necessarily mean the Anaheim/New Mexican or related variety of chiles, which is what "green chile" means in NM. It usually indicates, in Texas at least, a very mild chile, like a tomatillo or something.
Not incidentally, New Mexico is the US's largest producer of chile, if that tells you anything. :)
The New Mexican or Anaheim chile can be either red or green, depending upon when it's picked. It can range widely in heat, though it's usually hotter than other US southwestern chiles but not quite as hot as jalapenos. (I personally think that jalapenos are for most purposes an unsatisfactory combination of relatively high heat and low flavor. Contrast them to habaneros, which, although one of the hottest chiles, are very, very flavorful and, for example, make a fine salsa. New Mexican "green chiles" are distinctively flavorful and that's part of why they're a staple of New Mexican cooking. Sheesh, we New Mexicans eat green chile on everything. And it's higher in vitamin C than oranges, too.)
By the way, I actually like Taco Bell a lot, but I don't in any way associate it with "Mexican food". It's like it's own thing. I don't even think of it as ethnic. It's like a relatively yummy variety of American fast food to me.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:50 PM on April 26, 2004
Not incidentally, New Mexico is the US's largest producer of chile, if that tells you anything. :)
The New Mexican or Anaheim chile can be either red or green, depending upon when it's picked. It can range widely in heat, though it's usually hotter than other US southwestern chiles but not quite as hot as jalapenos. (I personally think that jalapenos are for most purposes an unsatisfactory combination of relatively high heat and low flavor. Contrast them to habaneros, which, although one of the hottest chiles, are very, very flavorful and, for example, make a fine salsa. New Mexican "green chiles" are distinctively flavorful and that's part of why they're a staple of New Mexican cooking. Sheesh, we New Mexicans eat green chile on everything. And it's higher in vitamin C than oranges, too.)
By the way, I actually like Taco Bell a lot, but I don't in any way associate it with "Mexican food". It's like it's own thing. I don't even think of it as ethnic. It's like a relatively yummy variety of American fast food to me.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:50 PM on April 26, 2004
Mo, TMT, mkultra: Thanks, guys! One for all, all for one! We'll show 'em what good eatin' means...
vacapinta: Thanks for linking to that delightful thread and your own excellent contribution to it; I see back then I was also defending the honor of NYC. (I'm relieved this has turned into a Texas-New Mexico war instead of an LA-NY one.) I hope you realize I wasn't dismissing the burrito—I enjoy them myself—but I won't stand by and see them used as a litmus test for Mexican cuisine.
And Cap'n Bligh, I too enjoy Taco Bell (bean-and-cheese burrito: mmm, good!), and your analysis is on target (a relatively yummy variety of American fast food).
posted by languagehat at 5:59 PM on April 26, 2004
vacapinta: Thanks for linking to that delightful thread and your own excellent contribution to it; I see back then I was also defending the honor of NYC. (I'm relieved this has turned into a Texas-New Mexico war instead of an LA-NY one.) I hope you realize I wasn't dismissing the burrito—I enjoy them myself—but I won't stand by and see them used as a litmus test for Mexican cuisine.
And Cap'n Bligh, I too enjoy Taco Bell (bean-and-cheese burrito: mmm, good!), and your analysis is on target (a relatively yummy variety of American fast food).
posted by languagehat at 5:59 PM on April 26, 2004
all hail the central californian Taco Truck. That is where you find the best food. Someone could make a killing exporting Taco Trucks to Seattle and NYC.
I don't know about NYC, but as for Seattle, they are already here!
There was one across the street from our house for a few months, but they moved, darn it. (They were closed down briefly by the health department first, so maybe it's a good thing... but it was nice to have a convenient taco wagon.)
posted by litlnemo at 1:18 AM on April 27, 2004
I don't know about NYC, but as for Seattle, they are already here!
There was one across the street from our house for a few months, but they moved, darn it. (They were closed down briefly by the health department first, so maybe it's a good thing... but it was nice to have a convenient taco wagon.)
posted by litlnemo at 1:18 AM on April 27, 2004
Why can't I find bad New York take-out chop suey with fried noodles in Budapest?
posted by zaelic at 5:26 AM on April 27, 2004
posted by zaelic at 5:26 AM on April 27, 2004
« Older What are good ways to translate foreign webpages... | "If a dollar was a chicken, would the chicken be... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by amberglow at 2:33 PM on April 25, 2004