More info about Greco-Buddhism?
October 16, 2006 6:24 AM Subscribe
More information about Greco-Buddhists?
This is something that's relatively new to me, but I'm completely fascinated by it. Are there any good books about this time period available? Has there been any fiction written in this setting? It seems like the conversation must have been absolutely amazing between classical Greek philosophers and Buddhist monks.
If you can't recommend a book about the Greco-Buddhists-- what about other early east/west cultural exchanges, for example Chinese in Ancient Rome?
This is something that's relatively new to me, but I'm completely fascinated by it. Are there any good books about this time period available? Has there been any fiction written in this setting? It seems like the conversation must have been absolutely amazing between classical Greek philosophers and Buddhist monks.
If you can't recommend a book about the Greco-Buddhists-- what about other early east/west cultural exchanges, for example Chinese in Ancient Rome?
You may enjoy reading about the Therapeutae - Buddhist-influenced monkish sect in in Egypt that influenced the development of Stoicism and then Hermetic Christianity in that region.
Also of note is McNeill's Plagues and Peoples, where he advances the notion that the cultural origins of Buddhism in India stemmed from a unique combination of micro and macroparasites in the Indus Valley, and the later near-simultaneous expansion of a version of Christianity westward into Europe and of Buddhism eastward into China coincided with a wave of pandemics resulting from the union of the Mediterranean and CHinese disease pools because of massively increased trans-continental trade in the 1st century CE.
The Nestorian Christians from Syria that pushed Eastward and found Buddhism everywhere they went were, iironically, also benifitting from the aftermath of a massive die-off that helped make entire populations more receptive to their worldview.
posted by meehawl at 7:32 AM on October 16, 2006
Also of note is McNeill's Plagues and Peoples, where he advances the notion that the cultural origins of Buddhism in India stemmed from a unique combination of micro and macroparasites in the Indus Valley, and the later near-simultaneous expansion of a version of Christianity westward into Europe and of Buddhism eastward into China coincided with a wave of pandemics resulting from the union of the Mediterranean and CHinese disease pools because of massively increased trans-continental trade in the 1st century CE.
The Nestorian Christians from Syria that pushed Eastward and found Buddhism everywhere they went were, iironically, also benifitting from the aftermath of a massive die-off that helped make entire populations more receptive to their worldview.
posted by meehawl at 7:32 AM on October 16, 2006
The Questions of King Melinda is incredible. Its a debate between a monk and a Greek Bactrian king. Here's a sample:
Then Milinda called upon the Yonakas and the brethren to witness: 'This Nâgasena says there is no permanent individuality (no soul) implied in his name. Is it now even possible to approve him in that?' And turning to Nâgasena, he said: 'If, most reverend Nâgasena, there be no permanent individuality (no soul) involved in the matter, who is it, pray, who gives to you members of the Order your robes and food and lodging and necessaries for the sick? Who is it who enjoys such things when given? Who is it who lives a life of righteousness? Who is it who devotes himself to meditation? Who is it who attains to the goal of the Excellent Way, to the Nirvâna of Arahatship? And who is it who destroys living creatures? who is it who takes what is not his own? who is it who lives an evil life of worldly lusts, who speaks lies, who drinks strong drink, who (in a word) commits any one of the five sins which work out their bitter fruit even in this life 1? If that be so there is neither merit nor demerit; there is neither doer nor causer of good or evil deeds 2; there is neither fruit nor result of good or evil Karma 3. [26]--If, most reverend Nâgasena, we are to think that were a man
to kill you there would be no murder 1, then it follows that there are no real masters or teachers in your Order, and that your ordinations are void.--You tell me that your brethren in the Order are in the habit of addressing you as Nâgasena. Now what is that Nâgasena? Do you mean to say that the hair is Nâgasena?'
. . . [Nagasena replies with a similie of a chariot:
'Then is it all these Skandhas combined that are Nâgasena?'
'No! great king.'
'But is there anything outside the five Skandhas that is Nâgasena?'
And still he answered no.
'Then thus, ask as I may, I can discover no Nâgasena. Nâgasena is a mere empty sound. Who then is the Nâgasena that we see before us? It is a falsehood that your reverence has spoken, an untruth!'
And the venerable Nâgasena said to Milinda the king: 'You, Sire, have been brought up in great luxury, as beseems your noble birth. If you were to walk this dry weather on the hot and sandy ground, trampling under foot the gritty, gravelly grains of the hard sand, your feet would hurt you. And as your body would be in pain, your mind would be disturbed, and you would experience a sense of bodily suffering. How then did you come, on foot, or in a chariot?'
'I did not come, Sir, on foot. I came in a carriage.'
'Then if you came, Sire, in a carriage, explain to me what that is. Is it the pole that is the chariot?'
'I did not say that.'
'Is it the axle that is the chariot?'
'Certainly not.'
'Is it the wheels, or the framework, or the ropes, or the yoke, or the spokes of the wheels, or the goad, that are the chariot?'
And to all these he still answered no.
'Then is it all these parts of it that are the chariot?
'No, Sir.'
'But is there anything outside them that is the chariot?'
And still he answered no.
'Then thus, ask as I may, I can discover no chariot. Chariot is a mere empty sound. What then is the chariot you say you came in? It is a falsehood that your Majesty has spoken, an untruth! There is no such thing as a chariot! You are king over all India, a mighty monarch. Of whom then are you afraid that you speak untruth? And he called upon the Yonakas and the brethren to witness, saying: 'Milinda the king here has said that he came by carriage. But when asked in that case to explain what the carriage was, he is unable to establish what he averred. Is it, forsooth, possible to approve him in that?'
When he had thus spoken the five hundred Yonakas shouted their applause, and said to the king: Now let your Majesty get out of that if you can?'
And Milinda the king replied to Nâgasena, and said: 'I have spoken no untruth, reverend Sir. It is on account of its having all these things--the pole, and the axle, the wheels, and the framework, the ropes, the yoke, the spokes, and the goad--that it comes under the generally understood term, the designation in common use, of "chariot."'
posted by Ironmouth at 9:25 AM on October 16, 2006
Then Milinda called upon the Yonakas and the brethren to witness: 'This Nâgasena says there is no permanent individuality (no soul) implied in his name. Is it now even possible to approve him in that?' And turning to Nâgasena, he said: 'If, most reverend Nâgasena, there be no permanent individuality (no soul) involved in the matter, who is it, pray, who gives to you members of the Order your robes and food and lodging and necessaries for the sick? Who is it who enjoys such things when given? Who is it who lives a life of righteousness? Who is it who devotes himself to meditation? Who is it who attains to the goal of the Excellent Way, to the Nirvâna of Arahatship? And who is it who destroys living creatures? who is it who takes what is not his own? who is it who lives an evil life of worldly lusts, who speaks lies, who drinks strong drink, who (in a word) commits any one of the five sins which work out their bitter fruit even in this life 1? If that be so there is neither merit nor demerit; there is neither doer nor causer of good or evil deeds 2; there is neither fruit nor result of good or evil Karma 3. [26]--If, most reverend Nâgasena, we are to think that were a man
to kill you there would be no murder 1, then it follows that there are no real masters or teachers in your Order, and that your ordinations are void.--You tell me that your brethren in the Order are in the habit of addressing you as Nâgasena. Now what is that Nâgasena? Do you mean to say that the hair is Nâgasena?'
. . . [Nagasena replies with a similie of a chariot:
'Then is it all these Skandhas combined that are Nâgasena?'
'No! great king.'
'But is there anything outside the five Skandhas that is Nâgasena?'
And still he answered no.
'Then thus, ask as I may, I can discover no Nâgasena. Nâgasena is a mere empty sound. Who then is the Nâgasena that we see before us? It is a falsehood that your reverence has spoken, an untruth!'
And the venerable Nâgasena said to Milinda the king: 'You, Sire, have been brought up in great luxury, as beseems your noble birth. If you were to walk this dry weather on the hot and sandy ground, trampling under foot the gritty, gravelly grains of the hard sand, your feet would hurt you. And as your body would be in pain, your mind would be disturbed, and you would experience a sense of bodily suffering. How then did you come, on foot, or in a chariot?'
'I did not come, Sir, on foot. I came in a carriage.'
'Then if you came, Sire, in a carriage, explain to me what that is. Is it the pole that is the chariot?'
'I did not say that.'
'Is it the axle that is the chariot?'
'Certainly not.'
'Is it the wheels, or the framework, or the ropes, or the yoke, or the spokes of the wheels, or the goad, that are the chariot?'
And to all these he still answered no.
'Then is it all these parts of it that are the chariot?
'No, Sir.'
'But is there anything outside them that is the chariot?'
And still he answered no.
'Then thus, ask as I may, I can discover no chariot. Chariot is a mere empty sound. What then is the chariot you say you came in? It is a falsehood that your Majesty has spoken, an untruth! There is no such thing as a chariot! You are king over all India, a mighty monarch. Of whom then are you afraid that you speak untruth? And he called upon the Yonakas and the brethren to witness, saying: 'Milinda the king here has said that he came by carriage. But when asked in that case to explain what the carriage was, he is unable to establish what he averred. Is it, forsooth, possible to approve him in that?'
When he had thus spoken the five hundred Yonakas shouted their applause, and said to the king: Now let your Majesty get out of that if you can?'
And Milinda the king replied to Nâgasena, and said: 'I have spoken no untruth, reverend Sir. It is on account of its having all these things--the pole, and the axle, the wheels, and the framework, the ropes, the yoke, the spokes, and the goad--that it comes under the generally understood term, the designation in common use, of "chariot."'
posted by Ironmouth at 9:25 AM on October 16, 2006
British poet Peter Levi discusses some Greco-Buddhist culture in his travel book The light garden of the angel king: journeys in Afghanistan. Oxford prof/poet-Jewish-Jesuit- travels around Afghanistan with Bruce and Elizabeth Chatwin. Good read.
posted by zaelic at 10:45 AM on October 16, 2006
posted by zaelic at 10:45 AM on October 16, 2006
Best answer: A lot more information will be found if you search for information on Gandhara, the ancient name for this region, especially on Gandharan art, which most profoundly demonstrates the Greek influence such as the Buddha sculpted as Apollo, an entire Greek city in Afghanistan, and so on.
However, in 1996 the British Library bought some birch-bark scrolls from this area, and they have turned out to be the oldest Buddhist manuscripts (@ 1st century C.E.) extant.
They are being published, and the following was the 1st volume and an introduction:
Salomon, Richard, F. Raymond Allchin, and Mark Barnard. Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara : The British Library Kharoṣṭhī Fragments. London: The British Library, 1999.
I apologize for most of these references being academic, but most information is based on coins, inscriptions, and art so it can be a bit dry.
There was one fiction book that I read somewhat based in Gandhara: it involved Jesus travelling to India and passing through Gandhara with a companion who had been a Roman slave and was a doctor, but I don't remember the title of it. The 3 volume telling of the Alexander story by Manfredi should cover some of this. There were Greek cities already there before he showed up.
For art, the most recent is:
Behrendt, Kurt A. The Buddhist Architecture of Gandhāra, Handbook of Oriental Studies. Section Two, India, v. 17 = Handbuch Der Orientalistik. Indien. Leiden ; Boston: Brill, 2004.
If you take a glance at that, it should have a comprehensive bibliography.
The most recent publication dealing with Gandharan Buddhism is:
Behrendt, Kurt A., and Pia Brancaccio. Gandhāran Buddhism : Archaeology, Art, Texts, Asian Religions and Society Series,. Vancouver: UBC Press, 2006.
Also, you might want to look at exhibition catalogues that deal with the so-called Silk Road (a lot of other stuff went back and forth).
Most recently:
Whitfield, Susan, and British Library. The Silk Road : Trade, Travel, War and Faith. Chicago, IL: Serindia Publications, 2004.
Also useful for Gandharan art is:
Zwalf, W. The Shrines of Gandhara. London: British Museum Publications, 1979.
Utterly delightful is Schafer, Edward H. The Golden Peaches of Samarkand; a Study of Tʻang Exotics. Berkeley,: University of California Press, 1963. This is a list of what was brought to the T'ang Dynasty court as 'tribute', which often meant trade delegations. It also demonstrates how T'ang China was the center of the world at that particular historical moment.
Also wondeful is:
Whitfield, Susan. Life Along the Silk Road. London: John Murray, 1999.
This is 12 or so vignettes of different people based on documents from Dunhuang, a town that was on the periphery of China for a long in what is now Xinjiang and was the spot of one of the largest manuscript finds in history (Chinese, Tibetan, Sanskrit, even a letter or two in Hebrew). This is relatively inexpensive and accessible.
posted by AArtaud at 11:09 AM on October 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
However, in 1996 the British Library bought some birch-bark scrolls from this area, and they have turned out to be the oldest Buddhist manuscripts (@ 1st century C.E.) extant.
They are being published, and the following was the 1st volume and an introduction:
Salomon, Richard, F. Raymond Allchin, and Mark Barnard. Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara : The British Library Kharoṣṭhī Fragments. London: The British Library, 1999.
I apologize for most of these references being academic, but most information is based on coins, inscriptions, and art so it can be a bit dry.
There was one fiction book that I read somewhat based in Gandhara: it involved Jesus travelling to India and passing through Gandhara with a companion who had been a Roman slave and was a doctor, but I don't remember the title of it. The 3 volume telling of the Alexander story by Manfredi should cover some of this. There were Greek cities already there before he showed up.
For art, the most recent is:
Behrendt, Kurt A. The Buddhist Architecture of Gandhāra, Handbook of Oriental Studies. Section Two, India, v. 17 = Handbuch Der Orientalistik. Indien. Leiden ; Boston: Brill, 2004.
If you take a glance at that, it should have a comprehensive bibliography.
The most recent publication dealing with Gandharan Buddhism is:
Behrendt, Kurt A., and Pia Brancaccio. Gandhāran Buddhism : Archaeology, Art, Texts, Asian Religions and Society Series,. Vancouver: UBC Press, 2006.
Also, you might want to look at exhibition catalogues that deal with the so-called Silk Road (a lot of other stuff went back and forth).
Most recently:
Whitfield, Susan, and British Library. The Silk Road : Trade, Travel, War and Faith. Chicago, IL: Serindia Publications, 2004.
Also useful for Gandharan art is:
Zwalf, W. The Shrines of Gandhara. London: British Museum Publications, 1979.
Utterly delightful is Schafer, Edward H. The Golden Peaches of Samarkand; a Study of Tʻang Exotics. Berkeley,: University of California Press, 1963. This is a list of what was brought to the T'ang Dynasty court as 'tribute', which often meant trade delegations. It also demonstrates how T'ang China was the center of the world at that particular historical moment.
Also wondeful is:
Whitfield, Susan. Life Along the Silk Road. London: John Murray, 1999.
This is 12 or so vignettes of different people based on documents from Dunhuang, a town that was on the periphery of China for a long in what is now Xinjiang and was the spot of one of the largest manuscript finds in history (Chinese, Tibetan, Sanskrit, even a letter or two in Hebrew). This is relatively inexpensive and accessible.
posted by AArtaud at 11:09 AM on October 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
Nickyskye did something a little while ago on this.
posted by jason's_planet at 11:15 AM on October 16, 2006
posted by jason's_planet at 11:15 AM on October 16, 2006
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Karen Armstrong's A History of God has a small section on the influence of Greco-Buddhists on the Eastern Nestorian church as well. This is a fascinating topic - I can't wait to see some of the other replies to this thread.
posted by huskerdont at 7:05 AM on October 16, 2006