Looking for plans for building a studio echo chamber
August 20, 2006 9:59 PM Subscribe
I am looking for instructions on how to build an echo chamber for a recording studio. Does anybody have any resources? I am specifically trying to emulate the one used in the MoTown Recordings..
Thank you in advance.
Thank you in advance.
probably "plate reverb". Here is a build your own.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 10:06 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 10:06 PM on August 20, 2006
These days it's easier to do that kind of thing digitally. Why bother with acoustics at all when DSPs work so well?
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 10:14 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 10:14 PM on August 20, 2006
Some things, like sex and MoTown, are best done the old fashioned way.
posted by lekvar at 11:03 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by lekvar at 11:03 PM on August 20, 2006
Do no, I repeat, do not take SCDB's advice on this one. He probably think's modern r'n'b sounds as good as MoTown.
posted by Jimbob at 11:12 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by Jimbob at 11:12 PM on August 20, 2006
Through a hole in a sheet?
While not Motown (I've been to their studios and didn't see any reverb stuff at all, though not everything was open), I can tell you how Cowboy Jack's old studio in Nashville got the really nice reverb/echo in classic country and bluegrass (for an album that was recorded there, and occassionally has the echo and reverb, O Brother Where Art Thou's soundtrack is a good example).
What they have is so simple it's stupid, and it works great (though it may not be universally utile): They have an old four foot square chute that goes from the ground floor up to the second floor. People sing into the chute at the bottom, and there's a mic at the top. I vaguely remember it being a dumbwaiter before the studio, but don't quote me on it (though it certainly looks like a dumbwaiter).
I guess the best advice I have is that all of the great acoustic environments that immediately are recognizable and distinct are due to weird, unique environments and I'd recommend that you think about how you can make your accoustic environment unique. (Though you don't have to go to the length, no pun intended, of the Beastie Boys, who recorded drums for Hello, Nasty through a giant cardboard tube about 100 feet long. That's the sort of thing only they can hear.)
posted by klangklangston at 11:13 PM on August 20, 2006
While not Motown (I've been to their studios and didn't see any reverb stuff at all, though not everything was open), I can tell you how Cowboy Jack's old studio in Nashville got the really nice reverb/echo in classic country and bluegrass (for an album that was recorded there, and occassionally has the echo and reverb, O Brother Where Art Thou's soundtrack is a good example).
What they have is so simple it's stupid, and it works great (though it may not be universally utile): They have an old four foot square chute that goes from the ground floor up to the second floor. People sing into the chute at the bottom, and there's a mic at the top. I vaguely remember it being a dumbwaiter before the studio, but don't quote me on it (though it certainly looks like a dumbwaiter).
I guess the best advice I have is that all of the great acoustic environments that immediately are recognizable and distinct are due to weird, unique environments and I'd recommend that you think about how you can make your accoustic environment unique. (Though you don't have to go to the length, no pun intended, of the Beastie Boys, who recorded drums for Hello, Nasty through a giant cardboard tube about 100 feet long. That's the sort of thing only they can hear.)
posted by klangklangston at 11:13 PM on August 20, 2006
You should use a software plugin. I defy the naysayers to prove that they could tell the difference.
posted by ludwig_van at 11:22 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by ludwig_van at 11:22 PM on August 20, 2006
I defy you to prove that downloading (and probably paying for) a VST plugin is more fun than trying to build your own echo chamber. For all you know the poster might be trying to do some all-analogue recording, or something real-time. How does your "software plugin" suggestion answer the question, ludwig and SCDB?
posted by Jimbob at 11:53 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by Jimbob at 11:53 PM on August 20, 2006
I agree with ludwig_van. Software can take care of this less expensively and certainly with more flexibility than any physical solution. Convolutional reverb can give you the best acoustic environments in the world. And if there is an acoustic space that you want to use that hasn't been impulsed, it is still cheaper to do the impulse yourself rather then rebuilding the entire space.
But if you were going to build an "echo chamber." You'd want a space with alot of right angles (basically a rectangular shape is ideal) and you'd want the surfaces of the room treated with a "hard" or "reflective" material. One end of the room should be movable, and you should be able to change the treatment on the movable wall so you could attenuate certain frequencies with sundry materials (think cardboard, foam, carpet, clothes... ) There is no way to give you dimensions without knowing what kind of resources you have available and without knowing what kind of frequency response you want out of the thing.
This looks like a small introduction to room acoustics, and basically you are trying to do the exact opposite of building an anechoic chamber. It would be instructive as well.
posted by bigmusic at 12:11 AM on August 21, 2006
But if you were going to build an "echo chamber." You'd want a space with alot of right angles (basically a rectangular shape is ideal) and you'd want the surfaces of the room treated with a "hard" or "reflective" material. One end of the room should be movable, and you should be able to change the treatment on the movable wall so you could attenuate certain frequencies with sundry materials (think cardboard, foam, carpet, clothes... ) There is no way to give you dimensions without knowing what kind of resources you have available and without knowing what kind of frequency response you want out of the thing.
This looks like a small introduction to room acoustics, and basically you are trying to do the exact opposite of building an anechoic chamber. It would be instructive as well.
posted by bigmusic at 12:11 AM on August 21, 2006
The DVD Standing In The Shadows Of Motown might be useful to you. I remember quite a lot of detail about the studios they recorded in. But I think you're going to find that it wasn't any kind of effect or specially-built room, it was just some kind of accidental magic that happened.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 3:41 AM on August 21, 2006
posted by AmbroseChapel at 3:41 AM on August 21, 2006
The Motown studios used a system very similar to KlangKlangston's suggestion - from The Mowtown Historical Museum:
The Echo Chamber
Before the age of synthesizers and computer-aided recording, Motown engineers created special sound effects by ingenious means. A rich piece of Motown’s history is relived, when visitors clap and sing into Motown’s innovative echo chamber (a hole cut in the ceiling), and experience early reverb. When “Studio A” was in use, the effects created by the echo chamber were relayed to the recording studio; they can be heard on recordings such as “Where Did Our Love Go, ” “Dancing In The Streets” and “Make Me The Woman You Go Home To.”
posted by sluggo at 7:44 AM on August 21, 2006
The Echo Chamber
Before the age of synthesizers and computer-aided recording, Motown engineers created special sound effects by ingenious means. A rich piece of Motown’s history is relived, when visitors clap and sing into Motown’s innovative echo chamber (a hole cut in the ceiling), and experience early reverb. When “Studio A” was in use, the effects created by the echo chamber were relayed to the recording studio; they can be heard on recordings such as “Where Did Our Love Go, ” “Dancing In The Streets” and “Make Me The Woman You Go Home To.”
posted by sluggo at 7:44 AM on August 21, 2006
And of course, I misspelled Motown in the above link - unforgivable for a michigander. One thousand apologies! The use of different room reverbs in rock is a fascinating topic - I've heard great stories on Simon & Garfunkel, and Led Zep (down the page), among many others.
posted by sluggo at 8:02 AM on August 21, 2006
posted by sluggo at 8:02 AM on August 21, 2006
I just read an article in Fretboard Journal where Duane Eddy indicated that in the first studio he worked in they bought a rusting 2000 gallon metal tank, ran a speaker from the studio outside where it was sitting, and then put a mic in there. The mic ran to the two track. Sometimes they'd have to stop mid-take when a fire truck went by. You might try something similar.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:05 AM on August 21, 2006
posted by Ironmouth at 8:05 AM on August 21, 2006
For all you know the poster might be trying to do some all-analogue recording, or something real-time.
Software plugins work in real-time. If he were trying to record all-analog, I'd say he should buy a hardware reverb unit.
I'm just saying that given the problem "I am specifically trying to emulate the one used in the MoTown Recordings," the easiest, cheapest, and most flexible solution is to use a software plugin. If you've never used high quality reverb plugins I might understand your skepticism, but knee-jerk anti-digitalism is not really helpful.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:21 AM on August 21, 2006
Software plugins work in real-time. If he were trying to record all-analog, I'd say he should buy a hardware reverb unit.
I'm just saying that given the problem "I am specifically trying to emulate the one used in the MoTown Recordings," the easiest, cheapest, and most flexible solution is to use a software plugin. If you've never used high quality reverb plugins I might understand your skepticism, but knee-jerk anti-digitalism is not really helpful.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:21 AM on August 21, 2006
To clarify Ironmouth's post, The reverb tank is set up in relation to the console the very same way you would set up a rack mount reverb. A speaker was placed at one end of the tank, and a microphone at the other. The effect send was routed to the speaker, and the microphone back to the return.
I have tried the same technique with trash cans and heating ducts with mixed results. I find that placing the return mic is the key to getting a good sound. Have fun!
posted by TheCoug at 10:52 AM on August 21, 2006
I have tried the same technique with trash cans and heating ducts with mixed results. I find that placing the return mic is the key to getting a good sound. Have fun!
posted by TheCoug at 10:52 AM on August 21, 2006
Heating ducts is a cool way to do it, not that it will necessarily meet the poster's needs. I have lots and lots of heating ducts installed in my house, I could put a speaker in one room and mics at other places in the house. Of course I guess I'd have to turn the A/C off. I live in texas so that would be a fall technique for sure.
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:12 PM on August 21, 2006
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:12 PM on August 21, 2006
Oh, and somewhere, I don't remember where, on the web, you can upload a sound file and they will play it back in this humongous tank and record the results, and send it back to you. Not exactly real time, but pretty neat.
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:13 PM on August 21, 2006
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:13 PM on August 21, 2006
ludwig_van, the OP said "I am looking for instructions on how to build an echo chamber for a recording studio." As in to build, not to download. Also, unless you have an expensive rack system your VST plugin is not going to be realtime, it will be added to a track after it has been recorded. That means that the signal that is meant to be modified by the echo chamber can't be actively monitored. Being able to monitor an effect is crucial to many performances.
I defy you to actually answer the OP's question.
posted by lekvar at 12:19 PM on August 21, 2006
I defy you to actually answer the OP's question.
posted by lekvar at 12:19 PM on August 21, 2006
I answered his question, dude. And I can monitor with reverb in real time using free software.
posted by ludwig_van at 1:14 PM on August 21, 2006
posted by ludwig_van at 1:14 PM on August 21, 2006
Really? Where did you post instructions on building an echo chamber or plate reverb?
posted by lekvar at 1:26 PM on August 21, 2006
posted by lekvar at 1:26 PM on August 21, 2006
Also, unless you have an expensive rack system your VST plugin is not going to be realtime, it will be added to a track after it has been recorded. That means that the signal that is meant to be modified by the echo chamber can't be actively monitored. Being able to monitor an effect is crucial to many performances.
This isn't true at all. I can't imagine more than a few ms latency on the monitors with reasonably modern software and a decent firewire sound interface.
Really? Where did you post instructions on building an echo chamber or plate reverb?
You might want to kill the outrage unless the poster actually posts clarifying what he/she wants. "Build" is actually pretty vague if you've thought about all the ways to accomplish reverb (which I suspect actually the OP hadn't).
posted by advil at 1:31 PM on August 21, 2006
This isn't true at all. I can't imagine more than a few ms latency on the monitors with reasonably modern software and a decent firewire sound interface.
Really? Where did you post instructions on building an echo chamber or plate reverb?
You might want to kill the outrage unless the poster actually posts clarifying what he/she wants. "Build" is actually pretty vague if you've thought about all the ways to accomplish reverb (which I suspect actually the OP hadn't).
posted by advil at 1:31 PM on August 21, 2006
Really? Where did you post instructions on building an echo chamber or plate reverb?
Lekvar: an 'echo chamber' is a construct whose requirements, absent any further clarification, are fulfilled by any suitable electronic reverberator -- the usage of the phrase "echo chamber' inherently implies that the person asking is not informed in depth about the many ways to create reverberation, and your becoming righteously indignant on their behalf is likely not especially helpful.
posted by baylink at 1:56 PM on August 21, 2006
Lekvar: an 'echo chamber' is a construct whose requirements, absent any further clarification, are fulfilled by any suitable electronic reverberator -- the usage of the phrase "echo chamber' inherently implies that the person asking is not informed in depth about the many ways to create reverberation, and your becoming righteously indignant on their behalf is likely not especially helpful.
posted by baylink at 1:56 PM on August 21, 2006
<adds "reverb" to list of topics likely to start flame wars>
posted by AmbroseChapel at 2:22 PM on August 21, 2006
posted by AmbroseChapel at 2:22 PM on August 21, 2006
Appologies. I did not believe it to be so, nor intend it, but the weight of opinion indicates that my response was out of proportion to the situation.
posted by lekvar at 4:31 PM on August 21, 2006
posted by lekvar at 4:31 PM on August 21, 2006
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