Wanderlust for the incompetent traveler
April 18, 2023 5:02 AM Subscribe
I've never been particularly drawn to travel, but lately I have been. Unfortunately international travel is outside my skill set. I have been all over the US and am used to highways and airports and hotels and finding restaurants and being a stranger and all that, but navigating a destination where even the alphabet is different intimidates me.
If I were in, oh, I don't know, Thailand, I'd be not very competent and I wouldn't care about it quite so much if I didn't have a teenager and a husband and a personal feeling of being In Charge of Things and Responsible.
The places I'm drawn to - Southeast Asia, North Africa, Peru - are upper-tier travel destinations in terms of difficulty level, I don't have unlimited time or money and don't want to 'start off going somewhere easy'.
And - I'm pretty introverted and so is my family. None of us want to be stuck in a tour group with people, though if there was a way to do that in a more lightweight way I would consider it.
On top of that, the two I'm traveling with are unadventurous about food but I'm not and normally I'm cool with that, don't have any high and mighty feelings about people who exist on chicken nuggets --- but again, I feel in charge and responsible for them. And selfishly, I don't want to deal with miserable hungry people. (They are into this idea though. I worry about this aspect more than they do.)
This is vague, I know, but any advice to the practicalities of this?
I like the spiritual and historical feelings I get from the music and food of places that have been historical hubs of culture and travel and just activity for thousands of years. I want that.
Is this a dumb question? I can't tell. I know there are tons of seasoned travelers on Metafilter who have lived in Mongolia and made yak cheese.
I would be especially interested in hearing from not-especially brave or experienced travelers who have nevertheless sucked it up and learned because they didn't want to live their whole lives without going to India or whatever.
I'm in my fifties, a cis woman, liberal as fuck. We all love nature, natural spaces, art, silly things. I'm a good deal more 'spiritual' than I used to be. I would love to see the temples in Thailand. Lordy.
If I were in, oh, I don't know, Thailand, I'd be not very competent and I wouldn't care about it quite so much if I didn't have a teenager and a husband and a personal feeling of being In Charge of Things and Responsible.
The places I'm drawn to - Southeast Asia, North Africa, Peru - are upper-tier travel destinations in terms of difficulty level, I don't have unlimited time or money and don't want to 'start off going somewhere easy'.
And - I'm pretty introverted and so is my family. None of us want to be stuck in a tour group with people, though if there was a way to do that in a more lightweight way I would consider it.
On top of that, the two I'm traveling with are unadventurous about food but I'm not and normally I'm cool with that, don't have any high and mighty feelings about people who exist on chicken nuggets --- but again, I feel in charge and responsible for them. And selfishly, I don't want to deal with miserable hungry people. (They are into this idea though. I worry about this aspect more than they do.)
This is vague, I know, but any advice to the practicalities of this?
I like the spiritual and historical feelings I get from the music and food of places that have been historical hubs of culture and travel and just activity for thousands of years. I want that.
Is this a dumb question? I can't tell. I know there are tons of seasoned travelers on Metafilter who have lived in Mongolia and made yak cheese.
I would be especially interested in hearing from not-especially brave or experienced travelers who have nevertheless sucked it up and learned because they didn't want to live their whole lives without going to India or whatever.
I'm in my fifties, a cis woman, liberal as fuck. We all love nature, natural spaces, art, silly things. I'm a good deal more 'spiritual' than I used to be. I would love to see the temples in Thailand. Lordy.
re group travel - there is group travel, 50+ ppl in a massive coach spending 10 minutes at each sight, which is awful, and then there is small group travel - 8-10 ppl, fairly bespoke with a driver/guide whose job it is to look after you some.
Stay away from the former, but do explore the latter if doing it alone is a serious worry. I am introverted but it turns out I can do small group travel just fine as long as I make sure to go off and do my own thing for a few hrs every now and then.
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:21 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Stay away from the former, but do explore the latter if doing it alone is a serious worry. I am introverted but it turns out I can do small group travel just fine as long as I make sure to go off and do my own thing for a few hrs every now and then.
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:21 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Small group travel is absolutely perfect for this. Do it for your first trip. I've been separately to Morocco and Egypt with a small group, and it really maximised my ability to enjoy the trip. Hotels and transport was all taken care of, I got to see the sights, and I was able to interact in shops, cafes, restaurants etc in exactly the same way as I do as an independent traveller. It's also really good if your travelling companions are more nervous than you.
I can really recommend Morocco for a first trip. It's a former French colony so there's French-style food as well as delicious tagines and so on and plenty of Latin alphabet signage. It's got a great mix of culture and scenery, tourism infrastructure is good, trekking is available if you like that, it's possible to do homestays...
posted by plonkee at 5:39 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I can really recommend Morocco for a first trip. It's a former French colony so there's French-style food as well as delicious tagines and so on and plenty of Latin alphabet signage. It's got a great mix of culture and scenery, tourism infrastructure is good, trekking is available if you like that, it's possible to do homestays...
posted by plonkee at 5:39 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am a pretty introverted person and I like a lot of control over my travel details. I really like using Rick Steeve's travel guides and contacts. I was able to find much more unique ways of traveling and lodging on my own terms. I was able to stay with families and lodge in personal, out of the way locations and get much more out of my trips since I knew exactly what I wanted to see at the best time. Steeves has a channel on YouTube you can check out, and a series called "Through the Back Door" that give tips and actual contacts for lodging and other travel support. I hope this is helpful. Good luck. By the way, his method can also save you a significant amount of money since you avoid the common tourist traps.
posted by effluvia at 5:40 AM on April 18, 2023
posted by effluvia at 5:40 AM on April 18, 2023
I love it! I'm so glad you are wanting to bust out of your comfort zone like this! I've been to 53 countries and I am amazed at how easy technology has made it to travel internationally without having to speak the native language. Google Translate makes it so that verbal conversations can be translated in real time on your phone, and it does a pretty good job. You'll always be able to communicate with people using this method. If you see a sign or a menu in the native language, you can focus the camera on it and the app will translate it on your screen. Getting to where you are going is easy — you just use a rideshare app like Uber (or, in Thailand, the Grab app), type in your address, a car will come and pick up up and take you where you're going, and you don't really even have to talk to the driver. You can book your accommodation on Airbnb, all in English, and everything will be set up. All communications on Airbnb are translated into English. When you arrive at the airport, you just use the rideshare app, enter the address for your airbnb, you will be delivered to your accommodation, and the instructions for how to enter will have been given to you in English. You will just have to buy a SIM card for your phone at the airport when you arrive, and the people who sell those will probably speak English.
In terms of tours, I might recommend Airbnb Experiences, in which you book a private guide online for whatever tour you want to do, which usually includes transportation. You can book these online without having to speak the native language, and they'll come and pick you up and give you a wonderful time (these people will probably speak English as well).
Mostly, just remember that a lot of people around the world speak English, so if all of the above doesn't work, being humble, respectful, apologizing a lot, and asking sheepishly if people speak English will usually get sympathy and someone who can help. Just try to memorize "please," "hello," "thank you," "I'm sorry," "do you speak English" and a few other key phrases in the native language. People in the tourism industry (and folks in general worldwide) are very used to English speakers visiting their country who don't speak the native language. Playing the humble, respectful, apologetic American (assuming you are American) will almost always help you (of course, you have to be smart and balance this by avoiding scams and not trusting overly friendly people who approach you). I think many people around the world expect Americans to act arrogant and entitled, and when I act the exact opposite, I find that people treat me with love and want to help me. I take pride in trying to be a good ambassador for the U.S. by being the exact opposite of what a lot of people worldwide expect from us, and it creates a lot of good will.
You will have an incredible time wherever you go. Thailand is wonderful and friendly. Please PM me if you have any questions. This seasoned international voyager would love to help you smash through your comfort zone.
posted by fenwaydirtdog at 6:07 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
In terms of tours, I might recommend Airbnb Experiences, in which you book a private guide online for whatever tour you want to do, which usually includes transportation. You can book these online without having to speak the native language, and they'll come and pick you up and give you a wonderful time (these people will probably speak English as well).
Mostly, just remember that a lot of people around the world speak English, so if all of the above doesn't work, being humble, respectful, apologizing a lot, and asking sheepishly if people speak English will usually get sympathy and someone who can help. Just try to memorize "please," "hello," "thank you," "I'm sorry," "do you speak English" and a few other key phrases in the native language. People in the tourism industry (and folks in general worldwide) are very used to English speakers visiting their country who don't speak the native language. Playing the humble, respectful, apologetic American (assuming you are American) will almost always help you (of course, you have to be smart and balance this by avoiding scams and not trusting overly friendly people who approach you). I think many people around the world expect Americans to act arrogant and entitled, and when I act the exact opposite, I find that people treat me with love and want to help me. I take pride in trying to be a good ambassador for the U.S. by being the exact opposite of what a lot of people worldwide expect from us, and it creates a lot of good will.
You will have an incredible time wherever you go. Thailand is wonderful and friendly. Please PM me if you have any questions. This seasoned international voyager would love to help you smash through your comfort zone.
posted by fenwaydirtdog at 6:07 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Thailand is a GREAT starter trip -- Bangkok in particular. English is widely spoken (and visible), transit is easy, there are lots of comfortable and reasonably priced hotels. I was there by myself a few years back and had a great time. (Basically seconding everything Gotanda said.)
Otherwise, re: group travel -- I too hate it! But sometimes we go places where it's hard to get around independently (or just better to have a guide, like in wildlife places), and in that case my strong recommendation is to string together a few shorter group trips. So for example: before the pandemic we were in Southern Africa. Yes, you could get a two or three week group trip that took you all the places, but being stuck in a minibus with ten strangers for two weeks is the tenth circle of hell, honestly. And there were a lot of places -- Cape Town, Windhoek, Victoria Falls -- that were 1000% achievable and easy to do independently. So we did! We spent a week in Cape Town on our own, then flew to Windhoek for a few days, and did two separate three-day group tours -- one to the desert, one to Etosha -- both of which we arranged in town (which was definitely cheaper than doing it in advance, though it's not always an option in high season). For three days we absolutely adored our ten minibus compatriots, and then after the tour we got to be on our own doing what we want again.
Obviously this method gives you flexibility in the sense that you have independent days, but it ALSO gives you flexibility if you've bitten off more than you can chew. Like if we'd gotten to Cape Town and after a couple days been like "oh no, this is not for us", it would have been really easy to find some group day tours to fill the rest of our time there.
Like fenwaydirtdog I'm very happy to help if you need logistical or emotional support! I have been a travel therapist for many of my friends haha
posted by goodbyewaffles at 6:18 AM on April 18, 2023
Otherwise, re: group travel -- I too hate it! But sometimes we go places where it's hard to get around independently (or just better to have a guide, like in wildlife places), and in that case my strong recommendation is to string together a few shorter group trips. So for example: before the pandemic we were in Southern Africa. Yes, you could get a two or three week group trip that took you all the places, but being stuck in a minibus with ten strangers for two weeks is the tenth circle of hell, honestly. And there were a lot of places -- Cape Town, Windhoek, Victoria Falls -- that were 1000% achievable and easy to do independently. So we did! We spent a week in Cape Town on our own, then flew to Windhoek for a few days, and did two separate three-day group tours -- one to the desert, one to Etosha -- both of which we arranged in town (which was definitely cheaper than doing it in advance, though it's not always an option in high season). For three days we absolutely adored our ten minibus compatriots, and then after the tour we got to be on our own doing what we want again.
Obviously this method gives you flexibility in the sense that you have independent days, but it ALSO gives you flexibility if you've bitten off more than you can chew. Like if we'd gotten to Cape Town and after a couple days been like "oh no, this is not for us", it would have been really easy to find some group day tours to fill the rest of our time there.
Like fenwaydirtdog I'm very happy to help if you need logistical or emotional support! I have been a travel therapist for many of my friends haha
posted by goodbyewaffles at 6:18 AM on April 18, 2023
Oops two more things.
1) Food: When you're traveling with picky eaters, the grocery store is your best friend. Find a hotel with a kitchenette or at least a microwave (this is where airbnbs are great) and go see what looks interesting and/or familiar at the grocery store, so you always have some food on hand as a backup, because a hangry traveler is a traveler who gets left behind at the nearest gas station. As a bonus, going to grocery stores in other countries is delightful -- obviously seeing all the different foods, but also the signage! the packaging! the way people interact! Highly recommended.
2) You might enjoy the book The Everywhereist. She's traveled a lot, but is a little bit...um, hapless?? In a way that I find very relatable.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 6:25 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
1) Food: When you're traveling with picky eaters, the grocery store is your best friend. Find a hotel with a kitchenette or at least a microwave (this is where airbnbs are great) and go see what looks interesting and/or familiar at the grocery store, so you always have some food on hand as a backup, because a hangry traveler is a traveler who gets left behind at the nearest gas station. As a bonus, going to grocery stores in other countries is delightful -- obviously seeing all the different foods, but also the signage! the packaging! the way people interact! Highly recommended.
2) You might enjoy the book The Everywhereist. She's traveled a lot, but is a little bit...um, hapless?? In a way that I find very relatable.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 6:25 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Agreed that big cities in Thailand are ready to make your trip easy. We loved Chiang Mai, and it was very easy to manage without a word of Thai. It's also easy to take a walk and see a bunch of temples in a day. Most have plenty of English signage and plenty of people happy to answer your questions in English. Plenty of places to grab a non adventurous meal both western and Thai.
Another easy trip is going to see Angkor Wat. The city of Siem Reap mostly runs in English and uses US dollars! If you aren't up for group travel, ask a tuk tuk driver to take you around. Most of them would be thrilled to show you around for the day for about $30/day. They'll even pick you a nice place to eat. On top of that, the temple complex is amazing!
posted by advicepig at 6:37 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Another easy trip is going to see Angkor Wat. The city of Siem Reap mostly runs in English and uses US dollars! If you aren't up for group travel, ask a tuk tuk driver to take you around. Most of them would be thrilled to show you around for the day for about $30/day. They'll even pick you a nice place to eat. On top of that, the temple complex is amazing!
posted by advicepig at 6:37 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don't have unlimited time or money and don't want to 'start off going somewhere easy'.
I would start somewhere "easy" simply because there are a lot of easy destinations that are awesome! The main thing to get used to with international travel is that things don't always go your way, you may be thrown unexpected problems to solve, etc. - learning to be flexible and calm in the face of unexpected challenges in an unfamiliar place - can be learned, but it's a muscle that's best developed gradually. Because it's much easier to be flexible and calm when you're confident in your ability to navigate anything, and it's hard to get that confidence immediately (for most people, anyway).
Since you like nature, I'd suggest Costa Rica. It is so tourist-friendly that much of the country is bilingual (though you should still try and learn some Spanish), and if you decide to go off the typical tourist trail there (which you should, if you want to avoid the crowds), it will provide a bit of a challenge - but a relatively small one. The national cuisine is mostly a lot of simply prepared seafood/meats, plantains, rice and beans, and wonderful smoothies/juices - I'm sure your picky-eater family would find something to enjoy, even if you went to the local sodas (restaurant). Also, depending on where you are in the US, tickets there are often quite cheap (like, under $300).
Finally, a key mindset to have: the goal of a trip is not to have the perfect or the ultimate experience of that given country - I think especially with the rise of Instagram some people set the bar too high.
posted by coffeecat at 6:38 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I would start somewhere "easy" simply because there are a lot of easy destinations that are awesome! The main thing to get used to with international travel is that things don't always go your way, you may be thrown unexpected problems to solve, etc. - learning to be flexible and calm in the face of unexpected challenges in an unfamiliar place - can be learned, but it's a muscle that's best developed gradually. Because it's much easier to be flexible and calm when you're confident in your ability to navigate anything, and it's hard to get that confidence immediately (for most people, anyway).
Since you like nature, I'd suggest Costa Rica. It is so tourist-friendly that much of the country is bilingual (though you should still try and learn some Spanish), and if you decide to go off the typical tourist trail there (which you should, if you want to avoid the crowds), it will provide a bit of a challenge - but a relatively small one. The national cuisine is mostly a lot of simply prepared seafood/meats, plantains, rice and beans, and wonderful smoothies/juices - I'm sure your picky-eater family would find something to enjoy, even if you went to the local sodas (restaurant). Also, depending on where you are in the US, tickets there are often quite cheap (like, under $300).
Finally, a key mindset to have: the goal of a trip is not to have the perfect or the ultimate experience of that given country - I think especially with the rise of Instagram some people set the bar too high.
posted by coffeecat at 6:38 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Go to Thailand! You can do this! It is a safe country with a built-out tourism industry and we all have supercomputers in our pockets now that can help with language barriers, directions, finding places to eat, etc. The easiest time for someone to go to Thailand who's never traveled internationally, is RIGHT NOW!!!
posted by rhymedirective at 6:44 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rhymedirective at 6:44 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is this a dumb question?
No, not at all. What it is, quite obviously, is a question asked by someone who hasn't ever travelled internationally. Because it's actually pretty easy. I'm not super experienced or anything, but I've done a bit, and I know enough about the world to assure you that you'll be fine. Because:
-Southeast Asia, Peru, and Morocco are not high-difficulty destinations at all. All three are places that get a ton of American tourists, to the point where American tourism is actually a key part of the local economy in some places. As a result, English is widely spoken in all three (and, let's be honest, pretty much everywhere else, too), and there is plenty of English-language and American cultural infrastructure to assist Americans.
-By "cultural infrastructure", I'm referring to things like McDonalds. Your family should have no trouble finding McNuggets anywhere you go. But also, chicken nuggets are not something unique to the US. Many cuisines around the world have some sort of fried chicken chunk dish (schnitzel, kaarage, etc.), and those that don't have, by now, created one to appease unadventurous Westerners and/or fuse the local cuisine with that of the West (e.g., Nando's, Jollibee).
-That goes the other way, too. Thai food is omnipresent in the United States. Peruvian and Moroccan less so, but still widely available, especially if you're willing to cook it yourself. Wegman's went pretty hard on Peruvian cuisine a couple years ago, and they still carry a lot of "Peruvian marinated" chicken, if you have a Wegman's near you. Or if you're in Ohio, I know of a Peruvian sandwich place you could try. If you plan a trip to Thailand, it's reasonable to expect your family to hit up the local Thai buffet a couple of times before you leave so that they can find a couple of dishes they know and like, instead of having to figure it out on the fly once you're there.
-Thanks to the legacy of colonialism, a lot of places around the world use the Latin alphabet, and Western languages are official in a lot of places. Peru speaks Spanish, that'll be easy for you. French is not an official language of Morocco, but it's widely used. Much of Africa speaks either English or French. Indonesia and Malaysia both use the Latin alphabet, if you're looking for somewhere in southeast Asia without alphabet differences.
-You don't actually need to know that much of a foreign language to get around in a country. A few dozen vocabulary words and some really basic grammar will get you what you need. As it happens, that's what language apps like Duolingo are best at. You will probably never write Spanish like Pablo Neruda by using Duolingo, but you will probably be able to ask "donde esta el bano?" if you need to take a leak. Assuming you're white, people will realize you're not a native speaker, and they won't expect a perfect accent. Most places, people will be grateful that you even try.
One thing that helps me, whenever I feel like I'm somehow unworthy to do something because of lack of preparation, is to think about how many really stupid people do that thing. There are innumerable absolute idiots who travel to Phuket or Machu Picchu, and they somehow get by. If they can do it, then you, a presumably thoughtful and intelligent person, should have no trouble.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:09 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
No, not at all. What it is, quite obviously, is a question asked by someone who hasn't ever travelled internationally. Because it's actually pretty easy. I'm not super experienced or anything, but I've done a bit, and I know enough about the world to assure you that you'll be fine. Because:
-Southeast Asia, Peru, and Morocco are not high-difficulty destinations at all. All three are places that get a ton of American tourists, to the point where American tourism is actually a key part of the local economy in some places. As a result, English is widely spoken in all three (and, let's be honest, pretty much everywhere else, too), and there is plenty of English-language and American cultural infrastructure to assist Americans.
-By "cultural infrastructure", I'm referring to things like McDonalds. Your family should have no trouble finding McNuggets anywhere you go. But also, chicken nuggets are not something unique to the US. Many cuisines around the world have some sort of fried chicken chunk dish (schnitzel, kaarage, etc.), and those that don't have, by now, created one to appease unadventurous Westerners and/or fuse the local cuisine with that of the West (e.g., Nando's, Jollibee).
-That goes the other way, too. Thai food is omnipresent in the United States. Peruvian and Moroccan less so, but still widely available, especially if you're willing to cook it yourself. Wegman's went pretty hard on Peruvian cuisine a couple years ago, and they still carry a lot of "Peruvian marinated" chicken, if you have a Wegman's near you. Or if you're in Ohio, I know of a Peruvian sandwich place you could try. If you plan a trip to Thailand, it's reasonable to expect your family to hit up the local Thai buffet a couple of times before you leave so that they can find a couple of dishes they know and like, instead of having to figure it out on the fly once you're there.
-Thanks to the legacy of colonialism, a lot of places around the world use the Latin alphabet, and Western languages are official in a lot of places. Peru speaks Spanish, that'll be easy for you. French is not an official language of Morocco, but it's widely used. Much of Africa speaks either English or French. Indonesia and Malaysia both use the Latin alphabet, if you're looking for somewhere in southeast Asia without alphabet differences.
-You don't actually need to know that much of a foreign language to get around in a country. A few dozen vocabulary words and some really basic grammar will get you what you need. As it happens, that's what language apps like Duolingo are best at. You will probably never write Spanish like Pablo Neruda by using Duolingo, but you will probably be able to ask "donde esta el bano?" if you need to take a leak. Assuming you're white, people will realize you're not a native speaker, and they won't expect a perfect accent. Most places, people will be grateful that you even try.
One thing that helps me, whenever I feel like I'm somehow unworthy to do something because of lack of preparation, is to think about how many really stupid people do that thing. There are innumerable absolute idiots who travel to Phuket or Machu Picchu, and they somehow get by. If they can do it, then you, a presumably thoughtful and intelligent person, should have no trouble.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:09 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Hiring a guide is an option. They'll know how to deal with both language and infrastructure issues much better than you'll be able to do so on your own. Finding a guide who will take on one person can be a minor challenge sometimes, but it's doable. If you have a group of three, so much the better. In many countries, getting a guide and driver can be a better deal than going on a packaged group tour--plus, you're putting money directly into the local economy and working with "regular folks".
I've done guide or driver/guide several times. I've done "small group" travel once, to see the hinterlands of Kyrgyzstan. You'd be in the key demographic for that small group.
Honestly, based on your description, I think you'd find your destinations very doable, and I think you will have some really great experiences ahead of you. DM me if you'd like some specific recommendations.
posted by gimonca at 7:30 AM on April 18, 2023
I've done guide or driver/guide several times. I've done "small group" travel once, to see the hinterlands of Kyrgyzstan. You'd be in the key demographic for that small group.
Honestly, based on your description, I think you'd find your destinations very doable, and I think you will have some really great experiences ahead of you. DM me if you'd like some specific recommendations.
posted by gimonca at 7:30 AM on April 18, 2023
I'm going to make a suggestion along a different axis. You may or may not find it suitable for your situation, but I did want to throw it out there.
Consider going wherever you go by yourself. A lot of your anxiety seems to arise from feeling responsible for managing your family's well-being on a trip. It also sounds like you feel constrained by their preferences. I'm not going to try to talk you out of these things, but then...wouldn't it be more pleasant and flexible to go alone? It sounds like they may just not be very enthusiastic travelers, which is a legitimate preference. Let them stay home and eat McNuggets and do other fun staycation things. Presumably they don't need you to manage their survival in their own house. Pre-pandemic, I used to travel by myself whenever I had the cash. The only person I had to worry about pleasing and keeping reasonably comfortable was me. There was no social insulation between me and the foreign country. I could change plans on a whim. I had a lot of time just to think.
I know there are benefits to traveling with other people as well, especially if you're trying to build memories with younger kids. But it sounds like you've never even considered this option, and I want to assure you that it is entirely feasible.
posted by praemunire at 7:34 AM on April 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
Consider going wherever you go by yourself. A lot of your anxiety seems to arise from feeling responsible for managing your family's well-being on a trip. It also sounds like you feel constrained by their preferences. I'm not going to try to talk you out of these things, but then...wouldn't it be more pleasant and flexible to go alone? It sounds like they may just not be very enthusiastic travelers, which is a legitimate preference. Let them stay home and eat McNuggets and do other fun staycation things. Presumably they don't need you to manage their survival in their own house. Pre-pandemic, I used to travel by myself whenever I had the cash. The only person I had to worry about pleasing and keeping reasonably comfortable was me. There was no social insulation between me and the foreign country. I could change plans on a whim. I had a lot of time just to think.
I know there are benefits to traveling with other people as well, especially if you're trying to build memories with younger kids. But it sounds like you've never even considered this option, and I want to assure you that it is entirely feasible.
posted by praemunire at 7:34 AM on April 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
Chiming in to agree with Praemunire to consider doing a trip on your own to get your confidence up, and then taking the family along once you're more comfortable with the basics. And I know you've mentioned museums and temples but if you want to broaden that, I know several older white USA women who travel solo for concerts in countries such as Malaysia. They've had great success in reaching out to the local fan club and getting advice and occasionally meeting up.
And if you really want a low-key start, consider Canada. Lots of English and dual signage but also lots of French and Quebecois and an intro to the money exchange.
posted by beaning at 7:41 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
And if you really want a low-key start, consider Canada. Lots of English and dual signage but also lots of French and Quebecois and an intro to the money exchange.
posted by beaning at 7:41 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
The places I'm drawn to - Southeast Asia, North Africa, Peru - are upper-tier travel destinations in terms of difficulty level, I don't have unlimited time or money and don't want to 'start off going somewhere easy'.
You may consider challenging this perspective a little and why you feel some places are upper tier and some are easy - presumably lower tier?
Travel is no different than anything else - the more you do it, the more you learn, and the more you learn the easier it gets. It would seem across your text that your people may want to ease into things like - food that is similar to what they like, and for you - not feeling totally overwhelmed by a lack of language or experience navigating places. If when I was learning to play guitar, I only wanted to play Eric Clapton guitar riffs - I'd have gotten too intimidated and frustrated to play at all. Travel is the same!
I might sketch out the things about the places you are drawn to that you like - you mention spiritual, cultural, music and food of places that have been hubs for thousands of years - and off the top of my head, places like Paris, Rome, Tokyo, Mexico, Hong Kong, Spain, etc. all also fit the bill to some degree. For me - going to Italy, then Spain, then Morocco via the Spanish enclaves made Morocco so much easier - I'd added some skills and awareness and recommendations from locals that made my travel so much easier.
posted by openhearted at 8:04 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
You may consider challenging this perspective a little and why you feel some places are upper tier and some are easy - presumably lower tier?
Travel is no different than anything else - the more you do it, the more you learn, and the more you learn the easier it gets. It would seem across your text that your people may want to ease into things like - food that is similar to what they like, and for you - not feeling totally overwhelmed by a lack of language or experience navigating places. If when I was learning to play guitar, I only wanted to play Eric Clapton guitar riffs - I'd have gotten too intimidated and frustrated to play at all. Travel is the same!
I might sketch out the things about the places you are drawn to that you like - you mention spiritual, cultural, music and food of places that have been hubs for thousands of years - and off the top of my head, places like Paris, Rome, Tokyo, Mexico, Hong Kong, Spain, etc. all also fit the bill to some degree. For me - going to Italy, then Spain, then Morocco via the Spanish enclaves made Morocco so much easier - I'd added some skills and awareness and recommendations from locals that made my travel so much easier.
posted by openhearted at 8:04 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m here to Nth the comment that Thailand is not actually too difficult for a first time international traveler. They get a HUGE number of tourists and are very prepared for it, so while you may not read or speak Thai you can very easily get by with English and a smile. Are there experiences you’d probably not have access to? Sure but neither do many/most of the other millions of tourists who go. And because they’re used to visitors even things that don’t work exactly how you expect them to will be explained/fairly obvious to a non speaker. As an example, there is no Uber in Thailand but the Asian equivalent Grab works exactly the same way - when we were last in Bangkok we mostly used meter taxis but they try to quote you a flat rate late nights and it was nice to be able to briefly check the Grab fair to make sure we weren’t paying an undue premium.
By contrast I’ve spent most of the last six months in a place I don’t speak the language at all (Vietnam) and it’s hard as hell being illiterate (in a city/country that isn’t interested in being terribly accommodating). Even here you could reasonably manage to have a good time on a visit as touristy stuff is the cutting edge or language and cultural accessibility but to a degree that is put to shame by Thailand.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 8:36 AM on April 18, 2023
By contrast I’ve spent most of the last six months in a place I don’t speak the language at all (Vietnam) and it’s hard as hell being illiterate (in a city/country that isn’t interested in being terribly accommodating). Even here you could reasonably manage to have a good time on a visit as touristy stuff is the cutting edge or language and cultural accessibility but to a degree that is put to shame by Thailand.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 8:36 AM on April 18, 2023
My way of viewing the challenge of travel is 'cognitive load'. We're used to things being the way they are at home, and each dimension adds a little cognitive load because you have to think about something that you normally wouldn't. Where things are, how to find a restaurant, what words on signs mean, how to eat a dish, how to pay, and so on and so on. Different places have more or less cognitive load (and more or less load in different dimensions; you can read all the signs in London, but the traffic comes from the other direction when you cross the street).
But you've already developed some of the skills to deal with this cognitive load! You've gone places where you don't know where everything is; you've gone places where you needed to find a restaurant. And some of the skills aren't as important as you'd think -- I was looking for a camera store in Beijing about 20 years ago, don't speak any Chinese, and the people at my hotel told me to go down the street and find the place with a yellow sign -- turns out the yellow sign was a Kodak logo. Restaurants mostly look like restaurants. People often want to help you (at least within their purview; the staff at a restaurant wants you to have a good meal). And you can communicate without speaking complete sentences; street vendors have calculators and will punch in a price, you can use body language and hand gestures. A positive attitude and knowing the local word for "thank you" will carry you a lot further than you expect.
And the level of cognitive load varies from place to place; top tourist sights and major international cities have a lot more support for English speaking tourists than out-of-the-way ones. Travelling in a small tour group can ease the cognitive load; so can staying in a Western chain hotel and asking the front desk for help or advice.
I'm a complete introvert, but I've had good experiences in small group tours; people sort out their own wavelengths. And I've travelled away from my wife when I want to go somewhere that's more intense than she's interested in; I went to Morocco and then met her in London, and we had a collective better time than if I'd dragged her through a bunch of crowded souks she would have been stressed out in, or if we'd gone together but I'd skipped going to the crowded souks.
In terms of 'starting off going somewhere easy', in my view there are travel skills to deal with aspects of the cognitive load, and you can gain travel skills (and gain confidence in those skills) by travelling to places that test fewer dimensions of cognitive load -- my first solo overseas trip was Switzerland, not China. I took all the stuff I was planning on taking on a seven-week solo trip to the Middle East on a trip to Las Vegas first, to see if I was missing anything. (Turns out you can buy stuff everywhere now.) The Apollo astronauts went to the moon, but first they went to Sudbury, Ontario so that they could develop travel skills they later used on the moon.
posted by Superilla at 9:24 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
But you've already developed some of the skills to deal with this cognitive load! You've gone places where you don't know where everything is; you've gone places where you needed to find a restaurant. And some of the skills aren't as important as you'd think -- I was looking for a camera store in Beijing about 20 years ago, don't speak any Chinese, and the people at my hotel told me to go down the street and find the place with a yellow sign -- turns out the yellow sign was a Kodak logo. Restaurants mostly look like restaurants. People often want to help you (at least within their purview; the staff at a restaurant wants you to have a good meal). And you can communicate without speaking complete sentences; street vendors have calculators and will punch in a price, you can use body language and hand gestures. A positive attitude and knowing the local word for "thank you" will carry you a lot further than you expect.
And the level of cognitive load varies from place to place; top tourist sights and major international cities have a lot more support for English speaking tourists than out-of-the-way ones. Travelling in a small tour group can ease the cognitive load; so can staying in a Western chain hotel and asking the front desk for help or advice.
I'm a complete introvert, but I've had good experiences in small group tours; people sort out their own wavelengths. And I've travelled away from my wife when I want to go somewhere that's more intense than she's interested in; I went to Morocco and then met her in London, and we had a collective better time than if I'd dragged her through a bunch of crowded souks she would have been stressed out in, or if we'd gone together but I'd skipped going to the crowded souks.
In terms of 'starting off going somewhere easy', in my view there are travel skills to deal with aspects of the cognitive load, and you can gain travel skills (and gain confidence in those skills) by travelling to places that test fewer dimensions of cognitive load -- my first solo overseas trip was Switzerland, not China. I took all the stuff I was planning on taking on a seven-week solo trip to the Middle East on a trip to Las Vegas first, to see if I was missing anything. (Turns out you can buy stuff everywhere now.) The Apollo astronauts went to the moon, but first they went to Sudbury, Ontario so that they could develop travel skills they later used on the moon.
posted by Superilla at 9:24 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Global English speakers really benefit from the fact that in major cities and tourist destinations in countries that use a different alphabet, the road signage, transit systems, etc will include the English translation. For example, in this quick guide to Bangkok's BRT, you can see the bilingual signage at the stations, the English language option at the ticket machine etc.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:32 AM on April 18, 2023
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:32 AM on April 18, 2023
Even though I haven't been there, I will join the chorus and suggest you start in Thailand. This is based on all the many people I know who have been there, compared to my own and other's experiences in Morocco. I don't know anyone who has been in Peru (but I would love to go).
Whatever you do, it will be a life-changing experience, in a good way, enjoy it!
posted by mumimor at 9:34 AM on April 18, 2023
Whatever you do, it will be a life-changing experience, in a good way, enjoy it!
posted by mumimor at 9:34 AM on April 18, 2023
Echoing others that Thailand is not hard! I was there for about a week, mainly in Bangkok, but I have heard other areas of the country are tourist- friendly as well. I don't speak any Thai; most service workers spoke some English. The country as a whole seemed prepared and ready for tourists, and friendly.
I also lived in China for several years. I eventually learned Mandarin but did not know any initially. Especially now, and especially in well-known cities and sites, China isn't too hard to travel around in. Public transit is great and it's pretty easy to find people who know English. It's also quite safe.
And how about India? Generally not much of a language barrier, and it's a fascinating and beautiful place, although not quite as "comfortable" as China or Thailand, IMO
I've visited these three countries as a solo traveler with a poor sense of direction, and fared well.
posted by bearette at 9:34 AM on April 18, 2023
I also lived in China for several years. I eventually learned Mandarin but did not know any initially. Especially now, and especially in well-known cities and sites, China isn't too hard to travel around in. Public transit is great and it's pretty easy to find people who know English. It's also quite safe.
And how about India? Generally not much of a language barrier, and it's a fascinating and beautiful place, although not quite as "comfortable" as China or Thailand, IMO
I've visited these three countries as a solo traveler with a poor sense of direction, and fared well.
posted by bearette at 9:34 AM on April 18, 2023
Re: food, you absolutely can "self cater" from convenience stores (here are recommended items at Thailand 7-11 stores) in addition to McDonalds and other fast food chains. If you stay at a hotel with complimentary breakfast, you can count on eggs, breakfast pastries, and granola/yogurt.
But my suggestion for you is to pack a few comfort food items that will serve as "just in case" options and help alleviate anxiety about whether you will not find something your family wants to eat.* A package of cookies. Trail mix or granola bars. Favorite cereal. When I was in high school and spending a summer abroad, I brought a box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch with me and I was so damn happy that I did.
*South Korean tourists are notorious for packing suitcases full of instant ramen, microwavable white rice tubs, and tubes of gochujang for fear of hating all the food when traveling. And then they have an empty suitcase to fill with souvenirs and presents on the way home!
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:46 AM on April 18, 2023
But my suggestion for you is to pack a few comfort food items that will serve as "just in case" options and help alleviate anxiety about whether you will not find something your family wants to eat.* A package of cookies. Trail mix or granola bars. Favorite cereal. When I was in high school and spending a summer abroad, I brought a box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch with me and I was so damn happy that I did.
*South Korean tourists are notorious for packing suitcases full of instant ramen, microwavable white rice tubs, and tubes of gochujang for fear of hating all the food when traveling. And then they have an empty suitcase to fill with souvenirs and presents on the way home!
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:46 AM on April 18, 2023
I'll let you in on a little secret - if you can get yourself to your first destination's hotel, you've done the hard part, and the rest of the trip can be easier. Why? Because once you get there, there will be so many people who will be clamoring to help you out. You want a private tour? Sure! You want a driver for your exclusive use for the next 5 days? No problem! An English-speaking tour guide at each of the temples? Yep. The more local help you need, the more services you will buy, and the more money the local tourism service providers make! It's in their best interest to make your trip great. So as long as you have the budget, you can really bring the difficulty level down.
So what can you do?
- Try to pick a flight that arrives during daylight or early evening hours, so you have plenty of time to get to your hotel.
- Pick a hotel that may be a bit of a splurge (1 level higher) than where you may normally stay, so you have an easier landing. Email them ahead of time, and ask to book an airport transfer so you don't have to negotiate taxis and cash/currency exchange when you land. Just look for the driver with your name on the board outside of airport arrivals, and away you go.
- Pay for roaming so you can use your phone and your data just as you would at home. You can use search, you can use maps, translation, etc etc. Not cheap, but it will make your life easier. Level 2 option is to purchase a local SIM card and phone plan at the airport, usually cheaper. But depends if your phone is unlocked... like I said, level 2, the easiest path is to just pay for roaming.
Once you're at your hotel, they can help you with everything else. They can point you to tours, provide guides, provide drivers, etc. They will offer this to you whether you are at a cheap backpacker hostel or a Marriott. They will tell you where you can buy chicken nuggets and fries. And yes, pretty much everyone in the tourism industry will speak English.
The other thing you and your family can do - and it is important that they commit to this - is to practice your "oh well!" shrug emoji attitude & mindset. So long as no one is literally sick and/or dying, any other bumps in the road will be solved by time and/or money. If your travel companions have a couple of unfamiliar meals that they don't love, or if they have to eat granola bars for a few days, it's not the end of the world, and hey, YOU'RE IN THAILAND AND THAT'S SUPER COOL!
Also wholeheartedly agree with the suggestion to travel solo. Part of the difficulty is that you feel responsible for 3 humans' health, safety, and enjoyment. If you just worry about yourself, all other things being equal, I bet you would feel less stressed already! I know many couples where one partner travels a lot and the other is a homebody. You may consider a short solo trip for yourself, and once that's under your belt and you get a feel for travel outside North America, then you may feel better equipped to take your partner and kid along on your next one.
posted by tinydancer at 9:54 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
So what can you do?
- Try to pick a flight that arrives during daylight or early evening hours, so you have plenty of time to get to your hotel.
- Pick a hotel that may be a bit of a splurge (1 level higher) than where you may normally stay, so you have an easier landing. Email them ahead of time, and ask to book an airport transfer so you don't have to negotiate taxis and cash/currency exchange when you land. Just look for the driver with your name on the board outside of airport arrivals, and away you go.
- Pay for roaming so you can use your phone and your data just as you would at home. You can use search, you can use maps, translation, etc etc. Not cheap, but it will make your life easier. Level 2 option is to purchase a local SIM card and phone plan at the airport, usually cheaper. But depends if your phone is unlocked... like I said, level 2, the easiest path is to just pay for roaming.
Once you're at your hotel, they can help you with everything else. They can point you to tours, provide guides, provide drivers, etc. They will offer this to you whether you are at a cheap backpacker hostel or a Marriott. They will tell you where you can buy chicken nuggets and fries. And yes, pretty much everyone in the tourism industry will speak English.
The other thing you and your family can do - and it is important that they commit to this - is to practice your "oh well!" shrug emoji attitude & mindset. So long as no one is literally sick and/or dying, any other bumps in the road will be solved by time and/or money. If your travel companions have a couple of unfamiliar meals that they don't love, or if they have to eat granola bars for a few days, it's not the end of the world, and hey, YOU'RE IN THAILAND AND THAT'S SUPER COOL!
Also wholeheartedly agree with the suggestion to travel solo. Part of the difficulty is that you feel responsible for 3 humans' health, safety, and enjoyment. If you just worry about yourself, all other things being equal, I bet you would feel less stressed already! I know many couples where one partner travels a lot and the other is a homebody. You may consider a short solo trip for yourself, and once that's under your belt and you get a feel for travel outside North America, then you may feel better equipped to take your partner and kid along on your next one.
posted by tinydancer at 9:54 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m going to be the party pooper. International travel probably ain’t for you. Any time I hear people with little travel experience ask questions about bringing their family with them on trips, all I can do is feel bad for them. Like, people even want to bring their pets. Dear god. Anyways, your intuitions are correct, however hard things would be for you traveling alone, multiply that by the number of people who are traveling, especially if they don’t share your newfound gusto for the unfamiliar.
Here’s the thing though — most of the things people travel for can be found in the US. Especially nature stuff. Like I feel kinda ridiculous that I’ve been to Patagonia twice but I’ve never been to Yellowstone or Yosemite. Are those places better than Patagonia? Who knows??? But a beautiful sunset is a beautiful sunset, and it’s not going to be any less beautiful because it’s in Wyoming and not Argentina.
Lots of North American cities have great ethnic food. Vancouver had some of the best Chinese food in the world and you don’t have to cross an ocean to get there. Do your research.
So yeah. I say don’t travel internationally. Don’t even do Mexico, the parts you’re likely to visit as an incompetent tourist are guaranteed to be less spectacular than similar places in the US.
Did you know there’s a beach in Montauk where you can camp out right there on the beach and have a campfire right there on the beach? Well you can. Look it up!
posted by panama joe at 11:00 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Here’s the thing though — most of the things people travel for can be found in the US. Especially nature stuff. Like I feel kinda ridiculous that I’ve been to Patagonia twice but I’ve never been to Yellowstone or Yosemite. Are those places better than Patagonia? Who knows??? But a beautiful sunset is a beautiful sunset, and it’s not going to be any less beautiful because it’s in Wyoming and not Argentina.
Lots of North American cities have great ethnic food. Vancouver had some of the best Chinese food in the world and you don’t have to cross an ocean to get there. Do your research.
So yeah. I say don’t travel internationally. Don’t even do Mexico, the parts you’re likely to visit as an incompetent tourist are guaranteed to be less spectacular than similar places in the US.
Did you know there’s a beach in Montauk where you can camp out right there on the beach and have a campfire right there on the beach? Well you can. Look it up!
posted by panama joe at 11:00 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm an American woman about your age who used to live in Cairo, and I recall that Egypt, and the Pyramids, are the most, or one of the most, visited tourist destinations in modern times (and perhaps older times too), and I completely disagree that Egypt is an inherently difficult place to travel. There's so much English spoken in Cairo, by taxi cabs and folks in hotels and everywhere. There's a gigantic tourism infrastructure. Could you get swindled out of a few bucks by a taxi driver? Absolutely. Are there ways to do a bit of advance research or work with your hotel to avoid this? You bet. Do you need advanced tourism skills to navigate Cairo and Alexandria? Not really.
A group tour would make it easier, sure. But you could also book tickets and and a hotel and take advantage of the substantial tourism industry to get the places that you and a bazillion other people want to go (because those places are pretty cool!). And like, get over this idea that you need go to from 0 to, what, backpacker off the beaten path? I think you might mean Europe when you say "someplace easy," and it's fine if you don't want to go there, but also, there's lots of cool stuff there too!
The being Responsible and In Charge part might be the best thing not to pack, if you can work on that. I was pretty fortunate in that in college I traveled to Central America with a friend who is a very laid back, confident traveler. It showed me that being relaxed about your trip can actually be a great way to approach things. You don't have to have read every menu and studied every street in advance to curate a perfect trip for your family. Trust that they won't fuss about food, or try not to care if they do.
I say get a trusted, reputable guide book (perhaps from the library?) for a place you'd like to visit, and just read it and see what it sounds like to go there. I also think it would be better to go with a friend who is a relaxed, seasoned traveler, so you're less worried about your family. But if you want to go with your family, go ahead and do a smallish group tour, and try to get over the idea that that's some kind of weakness. It's just a way of trusting experts to do a lot of the leg work for you, so you can focus on enjoying your trip.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:51 AM on April 18, 2023
A group tour would make it easier, sure. But you could also book tickets and and a hotel and take advantage of the substantial tourism industry to get the places that you and a bazillion other people want to go (because those places are pretty cool!). And like, get over this idea that you need go to from 0 to, what, backpacker off the beaten path? I think you might mean Europe when you say "someplace easy," and it's fine if you don't want to go there, but also, there's lots of cool stuff there too!
The being Responsible and In Charge part might be the best thing not to pack, if you can work on that. I was pretty fortunate in that in college I traveled to Central America with a friend who is a very laid back, confident traveler. It showed me that being relaxed about your trip can actually be a great way to approach things. You don't have to have read every menu and studied every street in advance to curate a perfect trip for your family. Trust that they won't fuss about food, or try not to care if they do.
I say get a trusted, reputable guide book (perhaps from the library?) for a place you'd like to visit, and just read it and see what it sounds like to go there. I also think it would be better to go with a friend who is a relaxed, seasoned traveler, so you're less worried about your family. But if you want to go with your family, go ahead and do a smallish group tour, and try to get over the idea that that's some kind of weakness. It's just a way of trusting experts to do a lot of the leg work for you, so you can focus on enjoying your trip.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:51 AM on April 18, 2023
Oh, and while traveling solo can be great, if you are feeling intimidated about traveling internationally, I'm not sure doing it on your own as a woman is the ideal first way to experience that if you aren't super jazzed for that approach. What about a small group tour with other women for just you?
posted by bluedaisy at 11:55 AM on April 18, 2023
posted by bluedaisy at 11:55 AM on April 18, 2023
Don't want to pile on but Thailand in particular is one of my favorite places in the world. Everyone else has covered details, so listen to them.
I'll just add a few things though: I have traveled alone, I've done some group things, but my favorite is definitely traveling with a few close friends/family in a very loosely planned adventure (ie, not a package). But an essential part of that is everyone being on the same page. What are people's expectations around meals (3/day? Local cuisine? Sit down or snacks? Etc.) What does each person want to see/do/experience the most? What level of comfort/accommodation are people expecting? I'm not a planner (I think it can take away from the experience of travel) but not everyone travels the same, and as with anything in life, good communication among your group is necessary to a good trip. Get everyone on the same page, share the "responsibility" for it being a good trip, and it will be that much better for everyone.
Peru is also great, but I've been to Thailand four times and am still working out how to go back and for longer. Technology has only made travel easier. Go for it!
posted by booooooze at 12:35 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'll just add a few things though: I have traveled alone, I've done some group things, but my favorite is definitely traveling with a few close friends/family in a very loosely planned adventure (ie, not a package). But an essential part of that is everyone being on the same page. What are people's expectations around meals (3/day? Local cuisine? Sit down or snacks? Etc.) What does each person want to see/do/experience the most? What level of comfort/accommodation are people expecting? I'm not a planner (I think it can take away from the experience of travel) but not everyone travels the same, and as with anything in life, good communication among your group is necessary to a good trip. Get everyone on the same page, share the "responsibility" for it being a good trip, and it will be that much better for everyone.
Peru is also great, but I've been to Thailand four times and am still working out how to go back and for longer. Technology has only made travel easier. Go for it!
posted by booooooze at 12:35 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
You can do this! The biggest recommendation that I have is to bring your sense of humor (and if you bring family, encourage them to do so as well). At home, we have a sense of continuity, where we have a pretty solid idea of what a day might look like. We know that if we do this thing, here is what will likely happen as a result. We get used to being able to control things through those expectations.
Some things you can prepare for and having mindset tools to manage your emotions if things get frustrating can help. When I took some students to Japan, one thing I'd prep them with is the knowledge that before some events we would be attending, we were going to have a "line-waiting simulation". When we were in the line, what might we be able to see about the culture by looking at the people around us? What could we do to be in the moment, even if it was long and our feet started to hurt? What a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to experience what it's like to wait in a line like a local.
But also when you're traveling, things are not going to go as you plan, whether for better or worse. It might be as simple as you don't know what to expect, so you don't have the expectations to be met. Sometimes when you're traveling, you have to communicate in gestures and work with what you get (but now you got to connect with someone across language, how amazing). Or you miss a train and have to make do with other plans (but look at this place you discovered instead). Or you order food and discover that as much as you want to like what you get you're going to need a second lunch elsewhere (but you've tried something and now have a chance to try something else).
That's the excitement and adventure of what travel is! Having a sense of humor about yourself and what is happening around you is what makes the difference between being miserable and celebrating those surprises. And to be honest sometimes your shoes are wet and you're hungry and you need a cry - that's okay too. Just know that having that openness to these new experiences and that humor about yourself as a person doing your best in a new place is what supports finding the joy in the midst of the unexpected.
posted by past unusual at 12:51 PM on April 18, 2023
Some things you can prepare for and having mindset tools to manage your emotions if things get frustrating can help. When I took some students to Japan, one thing I'd prep them with is the knowledge that before some events we would be attending, we were going to have a "line-waiting simulation". When we were in the line, what might we be able to see about the culture by looking at the people around us? What could we do to be in the moment, even if it was long and our feet started to hurt? What a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to experience what it's like to wait in a line like a local.
But also when you're traveling, things are not going to go as you plan, whether for better or worse. It might be as simple as you don't know what to expect, so you don't have the expectations to be met. Sometimes when you're traveling, you have to communicate in gestures and work with what you get (but now you got to connect with someone across language, how amazing). Or you miss a train and have to make do with other plans (but look at this place you discovered instead). Or you order food and discover that as much as you want to like what you get you're going to need a second lunch elsewhere (but you've tried something and now have a chance to try something else).
That's the excitement and adventure of what travel is! Having a sense of humor about yourself and what is happening around you is what makes the difference between being miserable and celebrating those surprises. And to be honest sometimes your shoes are wet and you're hungry and you need a cry - that's okay too. Just know that having that openness to these new experiences and that humor about yourself as a person doing your best in a new place is what supports finding the joy in the midst of the unexpected.
posted by past unusual at 12:51 PM on April 18, 2023
It sounds like you are voluntarily taking on ALLLLL the emotional labor for a grown husband and an (almost grown) teenager and ... you don't have to! You've received some great suggestions here. Now, go to Thailand and take a cooking class (Blue Elephant) and a street food tour and trust me, if the fam doesn't like it there's a flippin' KFC and Burger King on nearly every corner. Take the crew for wonderful (clothed) Thai massages at Healthland. Then go up to Chiang Mai (fly or take the train) or to a family-friendlyish beach destination like Hua Hin. (High tea at the HH Sofitel is amazing.)
Read up on common scams -- the temple you want to see is not closed ... Arthit just wants to take you to his cousin's jewelry shop to sell you green-colored glass. (Neither Arthit nor his cousin are dangerous, they're just garden-variety scammers preying on tourists like some people do in most cities.) Educate yourself and you'll be fine. DM me if you want BKK and Chiang Mai recs. Have fun!
Source: Female travel writer, lived in BKK
posted by cyndigo at 3:30 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Read up on common scams -- the temple you want to see is not closed ... Arthit just wants to take you to his cousin's jewelry shop to sell you green-colored glass. (Neither Arthit nor his cousin are dangerous, they're just garden-variety scammers preying on tourists like some people do in most cities.) Educate yourself and you'll be fine. DM me if you want BKK and Chiang Mai recs. Have fun!
Source: Female travel writer, lived in BKK
posted by cyndigo at 3:30 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure that Peru would beat Thailand as a difficult travel destination. If you've travelled around the U.S. you've almost certainly been in situations where all the signs were in English and Spanish -- Peru is the same way but all the signs are in Spanish and English instead.
Also in the tourist zone -- in fact in every tourist zone in the world -- you will find people who speak English. Many of them are just friendly but most of them are business people and want you as a customer. People *want* you to feel welcomed and comfortable and safe. It does mean you need to keep your eyes open but for the most part the (tourist) world is your oyster.
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In addition, Google Translate has made dealing with people who don't speak English downright boring. There was a time when pointing and pantomime were half the fun, but now everyone just whips out their phones and starts typing.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:32 PM on April 18, 2023
Also in the tourist zone -- in fact in every tourist zone in the world -- you will find people who speak English. Many of them are just friendly but most of them are business people and want you as a customer. People *want* you to feel welcomed and comfortable and safe. It does mean you need to keep your eyes open but for the most part the (tourist) world is your oyster.
-----------
In addition, Google Translate has made dealing with people who don't speak English downright boring. There was a time when pointing and pantomime were half the fun, but now everyone just whips out their phones and starts typing.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:32 PM on April 18, 2023
I'm lucky to have traveled an awful lot, despite being an annoyingly picky eater and fundamentally anxious human. It's a skill, for real. It's a whole set of skills you can learn, and I like the ideas above of taking a trip where you only have to figure stuff out for yourself. But I think you're smart and could bring people along, if they're willing to do the good travel things of:
1. Knowing that things will often be annoying and take longer than you might think they should
2. Shutting down people who wanna take bad advantage of tourists real quick (this is usually dudes who run up on you with shit, which is why I think maybe, "No thank you," is nearly as important as "Thank you")
3. If you're not feeling brave on a day, it is okay to just take a walk nearby where you're staying and just see what little markets and things are there and just listen to the sounds and look at what's there. Not every moment has to be a Go See It Before You Can't scenario
4. Knowing that even the best traveler will get shit wrong, because no matter what information they have, people are people and things shift sometimes
I love the grocery store tips above; there's nearly always some form of bread plus something-to-spread-on-bread. My human and I also have a real knack for traveling to places at the least touristic times: Ramadan in Dubai in August, various monsoon seasons. We are travel idiots quite often. But we always make a point of knowing Please and Thank You and Excuse Me and Nice to Meet You. And usually I read a novel or two from some local authors, so at least the anxious part of my mind knows a tiny bit about the values of a place. And then when we get there, we try to take public transit as much as possible, because that's how you have to learn to read a map fast and also get to see the people who live there. It's okay to take public transit all afternoon, to the end of the line and back, especially if it's a street train where you get to see what stuff looks like.
You can absolutely do this, if you want to, and I will second everyone above in saying that Thailand is an easy and lovely place to visit. You can do it. Getting passports for everyone is genuinely the most difficult part.
(I also hope this didn't come across as unbearably white American. We try real hard to not be jerks to anyone and we tip like crazy and study up good on the people we meet, before and after. Any bit of the local language you can learn is real real useful to you and to everyone around you.)
posted by lauranesson at 5:34 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
1. Knowing that things will often be annoying and take longer than you might think they should
2. Shutting down people who wanna take bad advantage of tourists real quick (this is usually dudes who run up on you with shit, which is why I think maybe, "No thank you," is nearly as important as "Thank you")
3. If you're not feeling brave on a day, it is okay to just take a walk nearby where you're staying and just see what little markets and things are there and just listen to the sounds and look at what's there. Not every moment has to be a Go See It Before You Can't scenario
4. Knowing that even the best traveler will get shit wrong, because no matter what information they have, people are people and things shift sometimes
I love the grocery store tips above; there's nearly always some form of bread plus something-to-spread-on-bread. My human and I also have a real knack for traveling to places at the least touristic times: Ramadan in Dubai in August, various monsoon seasons. We are travel idiots quite often. But we always make a point of knowing Please and Thank You and Excuse Me and Nice to Meet You. And usually I read a novel or two from some local authors, so at least the anxious part of my mind knows a tiny bit about the values of a place. And then when we get there, we try to take public transit as much as possible, because that's how you have to learn to read a map fast and also get to see the people who live there. It's okay to take public transit all afternoon, to the end of the line and back, especially if it's a street train where you get to see what stuff looks like.
You can absolutely do this, if you want to, and I will second everyone above in saying that Thailand is an easy and lovely place to visit. You can do it. Getting passports for everyone is genuinely the most difficult part.
(I also hope this didn't come across as unbearably white American. We try real hard to not be jerks to anyone and we tip like crazy and study up good on the people we meet, before and after. Any bit of the local language you can learn is real real useful to you and to everyone around you.)
posted by lauranesson at 5:34 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
If Japan appeals, Tokyo itself (and all the places you might go for a day trip outside of Tokyo) is not at all problematic. You can find McD's, Denny's and such, you can find other Western food (and they are much better at pizzas than most, by the way), but you can also eat locally without understanding the language because 90% of menus will include English. English is widely understood, though not universally, but that doesn't usually cause a problem. It's a huge city full of cultural interest, but the public transport also makes it possible to get out into nature.
When I worked there (and yes, I worked there, but once upon a time I stepped of a plane into the unknown as well), a colleague brought his entire family over to live there for six months or so. They managed just fine and as far as I know none of them learned to speak or understand Japanese.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 6:47 PM on April 18, 2023
When I worked there (and yes, I worked there, but once upon a time I stepped of a plane into the unknown as well), a colleague brought his entire family over to live there for six months or so. They managed just fine and as far as I know none of them learned to speak or understand Japanese.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 6:47 PM on April 18, 2023
Lots of great advice advice. Thailand is absolutely doable as a first international trip.
* Do the picky eaters like US Thai restaurants? Thailand is a bit unique in that the Thai food in the US is pretty representative of what you get in Thailand. I can't find a reference right now, but this is a deliberate strategy on the part of the Thai government to encourage tourism: they'll basically set people up with a That restaurant in a box. I should add that there's lots of Thai food you don't get in the US (especially Northern Thai, eg Chiang Mai). But even non-touristy places will have dishes you're used to from the US and they'll taste basically the same
* If you're interested in temples, you may also be interested in Angkor Wat. Private tours are reasonably priced and have standard itineraries that are good for a first timer. Even if you do a small group tour, the itinerary will probably be the same - the guides are all registered and have to go through a detailed training course. The heat and humidity are no joke, so I'd really recommend a tour over trying to diy it, even for an experienced traveler. Bonus: the guides know the schedules of all the big bus tour companies and will time things to avoid crowds, to the extent they can.
posted by matildatakesovertheworld at 8:28 PM on April 18, 2023
* Do the picky eaters like US Thai restaurants? Thailand is a bit unique in that the Thai food in the US is pretty representative of what you get in Thailand. I can't find a reference right now, but this is a deliberate strategy on the part of the Thai government to encourage tourism: they'll basically set people up with a That restaurant in a box. I should add that there's lots of Thai food you don't get in the US (especially Northern Thai, eg Chiang Mai). But even non-touristy places will have dishes you're used to from the US and they'll taste basically the same
* If you're interested in temples, you may also be interested in Angkor Wat. Private tours are reasonably priced and have standard itineraries that are good for a first timer. Even if you do a small group tour, the itinerary will probably be the same - the guides are all registered and have to go through a detailed training course. The heat and humidity are no joke, so I'd really recommend a tour over trying to diy it, even for an experienced traveler. Bonus: the guides know the schedules of all the big bus tour companies and will time things to avoid crowds, to the extent they can.
posted by matildatakesovertheworld at 8:28 PM on April 18, 2023
If I can offer one reassurance: in every country I’ve visited where the main language is mostly/only spoken there and where the script isn’t Latin like English (Thailand is a good example as are other places lots of international tourists enjoy like Japan, Georgia or Greece), a really quite serious effort is made to provide English translations (and at a bare minimum transliteration into Latin letters) just about anywhere that a traveler might find themselves.
It’s hard to not see English, surprisingly, and I don’t just mean in obvious places like ATMs and airports; I mean in places you would perhaps not expect, like on all the store-branded packaged food in a Japanese 7-11 and on a faded directional road sign at an intersection in the middle of nowhere in the Cretan countryside that happens to be where two regional highways meet on a route sometimes used by travelers in rental cars on their way to a beach or a ruin. That’s not to say it’s boring or predictable, though: I once rented a car at a rural train station in Japan (driving in Japan is a hoot; the conpany was JR Eki-ren) where the non-English speaking staff presented me with an entirely pre-written conversation template flow chart for us to follow in which I pointed at my answers to the questions to collect and pay for my car!
Thailand is particularly good at this; I have visited perhaps 15 times, staying in Bangkok and Chiang Mai as well as some medium-sized cities and towns and on a few busier islands and driving around and between those places, and I confess that I have simply never needed to read a word of the language (though I have been taught to say a few pleasantries, which are always appreciated). In Bangkok in particular, tourists from China or Belgium or Oman or Brazil or whatever will be using the English language just as you will be.
posted by mdonley at 10:32 PM on April 18, 2023
It’s hard to not see English, surprisingly, and I don’t just mean in obvious places like ATMs and airports; I mean in places you would perhaps not expect, like on all the store-branded packaged food in a Japanese 7-11 and on a faded directional road sign at an intersection in the middle of nowhere in the Cretan countryside that happens to be where two regional highways meet on a route sometimes used by travelers in rental cars on their way to a beach or a ruin. That’s not to say it’s boring or predictable, though: I once rented a car at a rural train station in Japan (driving in Japan is a hoot; the conpany was JR Eki-ren) where the non-English speaking staff presented me with an entirely pre-written conversation template flow chart for us to follow in which I pointed at my answers to the questions to collect and pay for my car!
Thailand is particularly good at this; I have visited perhaps 15 times, staying in Bangkok and Chiang Mai as well as some medium-sized cities and towns and on a few busier islands and driving around and between those places, and I confess that I have simply never needed to read a word of the language (though I have been taught to say a few pleasantries, which are always appreciated). In Bangkok in particular, tourists from China or Belgium or Oman or Brazil or whatever will be using the English language just as you will be.
posted by mdonley at 10:32 PM on April 18, 2023
Response by poster: Can anyone recommend where/how to find 'small group tours'?
I think I'm at a point where I don't want to Google anything half the time because I feel like I'm fed four pages of advertisements and I would rather have recommendations from humans.
Also: appreciate the recommendations for books and websites of people providing this kind of guidance.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:11 AM on April 19, 2023
I think I'm at a point where I don't want to Google anything half the time because I feel like I'm fed four pages of advertisements and I would rather have recommendations from humans.
Also: appreciate the recommendations for books and websites of people providing this kind of guidance.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:11 AM on April 19, 2023
Types of tour 'operators'
There are some providers who specialise in group tours of varying duration and destinations and group sizes. They are national or international companies that have established relationships and contracts with accommodation, local activity providers etc. and work with more specific guides/drivers. Exodus for example. Because they are offering specific, contracted tours, they tend to have specific departure schedules etc. So for example, they may have 6 departure dates over the whole summer for Alaska. You pick the tour and then you arrange your travel and such. Specific reviews/ratings help you assess specific tours.
There are also companies who specialise in specific destinations only. You have to find these by destination and reading reviews. I once did a tour of South Africa like that - was travelling for work and added a tour to make the most of the trip.
Both of these are more a 'full service' options, where there is a good chance your driver is also your guide and you have one person looking after you most of the time. But then again they may not be - got to read the descriptions.
Then there are things organised at a much more local level. You still get somebody to do all the thinking/organising for you though. There is much more variability, the schedules are from now to a few months out at most - I was looking for tours in Bali last November (to travel this September) and could only find tours through Feb/March. Tourradar. Basically a tour search engine. You may be passed from local provider to local provider - the driver takes you to a place and hands you over to local guide who hands you back to the driver kind of thing. I have booked my flight to Bali and as it turns out there are frequent local tour departures for all the things my friend and I want to do. So we'll revisit the search in July/August. For the most part, we are ok just turning up as well and having accommodation for the first couple of nights. We'll figure it out - only reason for looking at a tour for this was that we both have very limited bandwidth to do meaningful planning to even figure out where all we want to go...But it'll be fine either way.
General tour searching considerations
What is really important when searching for a tour is that you have defined some parameters. When, Where, What kind of activities. These are important because they translate into search filters...and filters is how you turn the countless hits into something that you want to read in detail.
In addition, you really have to pay attention to who they market these tours to. If they market heavily in Australia and the UK most people will be from there, with a few stragglers from other countries. If they market heavily in Europe or Korea you'll have a lot less native speakers of English. So pay attention to that - you can normally tell also by the reviews where people are from.
And lastly, you really have to read the itineraries with a critical eye. Sunrise on top of x vulcano is amazing...except that you have to get up at 3am, and hike up the vulcano for 2.5 hrs with quite some elevation gain etc. So if your knees hurt just reading that you can still do that tour, sit out the sunrise hike and have a leisurely breakfast before regrouping. But if you had your heart set on an amazing view or sunrise there may be other tours more suited to your preferences and comfort level.
Likewise, tours that take you from place to place are great. But check the descriptions for drive times and such. The tour will get you to all the places they list. But if you just look at the 'map' in the itinerary and it looks like a short distance - that can still mean half a day+ on the vehicle because scale and the roads are not highways etc. If you read carefully you will spot these things. It's not dissimilar to reading listings for rental apartments and such. You get the hang of it quickly. But if you're not used to reading them just something to look out for.
posted by koahiatamadl at 11:38 AM on April 20, 2023
There are some providers who specialise in group tours of varying duration and destinations and group sizes. They are national or international companies that have established relationships and contracts with accommodation, local activity providers etc. and work with more specific guides/drivers. Exodus for example. Because they are offering specific, contracted tours, they tend to have specific departure schedules etc. So for example, they may have 6 departure dates over the whole summer for Alaska. You pick the tour and then you arrange your travel and such. Specific reviews/ratings help you assess specific tours.
There are also companies who specialise in specific destinations only. You have to find these by destination and reading reviews. I once did a tour of South Africa like that - was travelling for work and added a tour to make the most of the trip.
Both of these are more a 'full service' options, where there is a good chance your driver is also your guide and you have one person looking after you most of the time. But then again they may not be - got to read the descriptions.
Then there are things organised at a much more local level. You still get somebody to do all the thinking/organising for you though. There is much more variability, the schedules are from now to a few months out at most - I was looking for tours in Bali last November (to travel this September) and could only find tours through Feb/March. Tourradar. Basically a tour search engine. You may be passed from local provider to local provider - the driver takes you to a place and hands you over to local guide who hands you back to the driver kind of thing. I have booked my flight to Bali and as it turns out there are frequent local tour departures for all the things my friend and I want to do. So we'll revisit the search in July/August. For the most part, we are ok just turning up as well and having accommodation for the first couple of nights. We'll figure it out - only reason for looking at a tour for this was that we both have very limited bandwidth to do meaningful planning to even figure out where all we want to go...But it'll be fine either way.
General tour searching considerations
What is really important when searching for a tour is that you have defined some parameters. When, Where, What kind of activities. These are important because they translate into search filters...and filters is how you turn the countless hits into something that you want to read in detail.
In addition, you really have to pay attention to who they market these tours to. If they market heavily in Australia and the UK most people will be from there, with a few stragglers from other countries. If they market heavily in Europe or Korea you'll have a lot less native speakers of English. So pay attention to that - you can normally tell also by the reviews where people are from.
And lastly, you really have to read the itineraries with a critical eye. Sunrise on top of x vulcano is amazing...except that you have to get up at 3am, and hike up the vulcano for 2.5 hrs with quite some elevation gain etc. So if your knees hurt just reading that you can still do that tour, sit out the sunrise hike and have a leisurely breakfast before regrouping. But if you had your heart set on an amazing view or sunrise there may be other tours more suited to your preferences and comfort level.
Likewise, tours that take you from place to place are great. But check the descriptions for drive times and such. The tour will get you to all the places they list. But if you just look at the 'map' in the itinerary and it looks like a short distance - that can still mean half a day+ on the vehicle because scale and the roads are not highways etc. If you read carefully you will spot these things. It's not dissimilar to reading listings for rental apartments and such. You get the hang of it quickly. But if you're not used to reading them just something to look out for.
posted by koahiatamadl at 11:38 AM on April 20, 2023
For smaller tours, I'd focus on finding in-country experts, and a good way to start is with guide books rather than wading through online forums. So if you want to go to Thailand or Egypt or whatever, get a a few guide books from different publishers from the public library. It's okay if the books are older, as you're not using these books just for the latest hotel info, but to get the big picture. If you love one of the books, buy the latest edition. But otherwise, check out the books and get a sense of what you might do, and then see if they mention any tour companies.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:05 PM on April 20, 2023
posted by bluedaisy at 1:05 PM on April 20, 2023
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posted by smorgasbord at 5:17 AM on April 18, 2023