Construction project tips: UK garden steps
March 24, 2023 5:22 AM Subscribe
I have a lot of decaying concrete steps that form the only access to my house. I need to get them replaced/remediated and made more accessible, but it's a simultaneously a big expensive project for me, and a small annoying project for the kind of contractors who do this sort of work. Help me figure out how to get this done?
Challenges:
* The steps rise about 20ft from the road to the house
* The site also slopes significantly from side to side
* The steps link to the front door via some wonky/slopey/disintegrating concrete that forms a path around the whole house, adjoins a small retaining wall with my downhill neighbour at the side, and goes under a lot of decking and a porch at the back.
* There's a big retaining wall along the roadside so there's no access for machinery.
* My phone line and that of two of my neighbours fly quite low over the top of the steps
* The steps are the only access to the house
* The steps are very visible from the road and needs to look decent!
* The previous steps have cracked in two and half of it is subsiding due to the site slope, I'd like the replacement to... Not do that.
* I also need the steps to be safe and accessible to people visiting the house, especially when it's snowy or icy. I don't know how familiar most contractors are with accessibility needs (Not a ramp, just evenly spaced stairs and a handrail and so forth)
I've tried getting quotes from contractors who seemed to have experience with similar projects, but they've never explained clearly what exactly they would do where, how it would join successfully to the rest of the site, what the railing would look like, etc. They aren't comfortable providing drawings.
I've tried finding a garden designer who had done similar projects, and asking them to do a design for the garden as a whole, but they were booked out for eons and passed me on to a much less experienced designer who didn't give me confidence in their ability to deal with a very 3D site.
I also didn't have confidence in how any of these people described how their process would interact with a ... Structural engineer? Or someone who could confirm how deep the foundations should be and how to avoid impacting my downhill neighbour.
Has anyone dealt with this kind of project in the UK before? Any tips on finding the right professionals in the right order to get it done safely and satisfactorily? I realise that this is going to cost £££ but I also want to avoid spending unnecessary extra £££ because of my unfamiliarity with this kind of thing.
Challenges:
* The steps rise about 20ft from the road to the house
* The site also slopes significantly from side to side
* The steps link to the front door via some wonky/slopey/disintegrating concrete that forms a path around the whole house, adjoins a small retaining wall with my downhill neighbour at the side, and goes under a lot of decking and a porch at the back.
* There's a big retaining wall along the roadside so there's no access for machinery.
* My phone line and that of two of my neighbours fly quite low over the top of the steps
* The steps are the only access to the house
* The steps are very visible from the road and needs to look decent!
* The previous steps have cracked in two and half of it is subsiding due to the site slope, I'd like the replacement to... Not do that.
* I also need the steps to be safe and accessible to people visiting the house, especially when it's snowy or icy. I don't know how familiar most contractors are with accessibility needs (Not a ramp, just evenly spaced stairs and a handrail and so forth)
I've tried getting quotes from contractors who seemed to have experience with similar projects, but they've never explained clearly what exactly they would do where, how it would join successfully to the rest of the site, what the railing would look like, etc. They aren't comfortable providing drawings.
I've tried finding a garden designer who had done similar projects, and asking them to do a design for the garden as a whole, but they were booked out for eons and passed me on to a much less experienced designer who didn't give me confidence in their ability to deal with a very 3D site.
I also didn't have confidence in how any of these people described how their process would interact with a ... Structural engineer? Or someone who could confirm how deep the foundations should be and how to avoid impacting my downhill neighbour.
Has anyone dealt with this kind of project in the UK before? Any tips on finding the right professionals in the right order to get it done safely and satisfactorily? I realise that this is going to cost £££ but I also want to avoid spending unnecessary extra £££ because of my unfamiliarity with this kind of thing.
With things like this, your local Facebook/Nextdoor group can be a big help. There's bound to be more than one person in your area who's had concrete steps / a path put in. Follow up any suggestions by going over and taking a look at the work.
In my experience the tradespeople who do this sort of stuff will never do drawings - they're not architects. But if you can provide your own diagram and clear specification for what you need, or some photos of the kind of thing you want, it's a big aid to communication.
This is the sort of job I'd go to a local builder for, as opposed to someone who does hard landscaping or driveways (note to US Mefites: in the UK, builders generally work with concrete and brick, so we don't really have masons as such).
posted by pipeski at 8:03 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
In my experience the tradespeople who do this sort of stuff will never do drawings - they're not architects. But if you can provide your own diagram and clear specification for what you need, or some photos of the kind of thing you want, it's a big aid to communication.
This is the sort of job I'd go to a local builder for, as opposed to someone who does hard landscaping or driveways (note to US Mefites: in the UK, builders generally work with concrete and brick, so we don't really have masons as such).
posted by pipeski at 8:03 AM on March 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not exactly your question, but are you absolutely positive that the site itself hasn't shifted? Are there cracks or bulges in the retaining wall? It might need shoring up. If the site is not stable any concrete steps you install would fail again in the future.
In the US I would probably look for a structural engineer, but a reputable mason who evaluates your steps can probably advise whether there are signs of instability needing further investigation.
posted by citygirl at 8:31 AM on March 24, 2023
In the US I would probably look for a structural engineer, but a reputable mason who evaluates your steps can probably advise whether there are signs of instability needing further investigation.
posted by citygirl at 8:31 AM on March 24, 2023
Response by poster: but are you absolutely positive that the site itself hasn't shifted
Yup. The only thing that's shifted is the top half of the steps, and they shifted sideways (towards my downhill neighbour) in the one part of the site where there's just a slope between us and not a retaining wall. The lower part of the steps (on part of the site with retaining walls to two sides) is completely fine.
posted by quacks like a duck at 8:50 AM on March 24, 2023
Yup. The only thing that's shifted is the top half of the steps, and they shifted sideways (towards my downhill neighbour) in the one part of the site where there's just a slope between us and not a retaining wall. The lower part of the steps (on part of the site with retaining walls to two sides) is completely fine.
posted by quacks like a duck at 8:50 AM on March 24, 2023
I design a lot of height change access / walkways, and have been working on ways to build these more easily. Many of my sites have no machine access.
What is the soil like, if you know, especially is it rocky?
Is site coastal, i.e. within 5k of salt water?
What is the distance from road to front door?
How many steps (risers) are there at the moment?
Are you able to take a pic that you feel comfortable sharing here? From the side/ across the slope may represent problem better, and sounds maybe possible in a non identifying way.
Roughly where in the UK?
posted by unearthed at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2023
What is the soil like, if you know, especially is it rocky?
Is site coastal, i.e. within 5k of salt water?
What is the distance from road to front door?
How many steps (risers) are there at the moment?
Are you able to take a pic that you feel comfortable sharing here? From the side/ across the slope may represent problem better, and sounds maybe possible in a non identifying way.
Roughly where in the UK?
posted by unearthed at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2023
Response by poster: The soil is rocky and the site was formerly a quarry.
It's not coastal.
It's maybe 40ft horizontally from house to road.
There's about 10 steps before you get to the problem section, then that section has another 12 or so.
It's in Yorkshire.
I can't find a non identifying pic but I can DM pics to anyone who thinks that would help!
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:29 PM on March 24, 2023
It's not coastal.
It's maybe 40ft horizontally from house to road.
There's about 10 steps before you get to the problem section, then that section has another 12 or so.
It's in Yorkshire.
I can't find a non identifying pic but I can DM pics to anyone who thinks that would help!
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:29 PM on March 24, 2023
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You might want to re-consider that assumption. On the flip side, my dad was a mason who mostly did smaller jobs that required 1-2 people (e.g. fireplaces, doors, windows, steps smaller than yours). But he also had plenty of skill and capacity to do a project like yours, and had a small group of similar people he'd call in to help with larger jobs. For someone like that, this would be a big important job for them as well as for you, and that would lead to a natural alignment of interest in making sure everything is done just right and everyone is happy at the end. You're correct that that's not the case with a large commercial developer, and I think you're wise to be wary of the inherent power imbalance of dealing with them.
I don't have much else to offer, but the main suggestion is to make some brief inquiries among smaller masonry outfits; it may prove useful for context and information, even if you don't use one. E.g. my dad was also always happy to pass on names of trusted associates when he couldn't take a job.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:36 AM on March 24, 2023