why, yes it is
September 7, 2022 9:42 PM Subscribe
There's a line from the (American) movie Gilda (1946) I've never understood. Our Antihero has just cleaned up cheating at a fancy illegal casino in South America. On his way out, he's accosted by two toughs who say, "The boss wants a word with you." He responds, "Is Brooklyn across the river here, too?"
...So, clearly this is a remark along the lines of, "Oh yeah? Pull the other one, it's got bells on." Most likely he thinks they're trying to hustle him away to rob him of his winnings. But what is the exact reference/quote/saying/metaphor being invoked here? Because it's probably not an example of literal falsity; from the Manhattan POV, of course Brooklyn is across the river. Googling the phrase turns up nothing. Any ideas?
...So, clearly this is a remark along the lines of, "Oh yeah? Pull the other one, it's got bells on." Most likely he thinks they're trying to hustle him away to rob him of his winnings. But what is the exact reference/quote/saying/metaphor being invoked here? Because it's probably not an example of literal falsity; from the Manhattan POV, of course Brooklyn is across the river. Googling the phrase turns up nothing. Any ideas?
I interpreted his “Just how gullible do you think I am?” attitude as an oblique reference to the old “If you believe that, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you” line. Obviously one end of the bridge is located in Manhattan, but it’s a common enough version of the idiom to think of the scam as taking place in Brooklyn.
posted by theory at 10:24 PM on September 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by theory at 10:24 PM on September 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
In the first few minutes of the movie, Johnny speaks several lines basically just showing how nonchalant he is about landing in Argentina. The first scene has him cheating American sailors on the street; he says something about how he might be in a different country but he knows American sailors. He makes another comment I can't recall, too, performing his "seen it all" attitude in the fancy casino - he's not impressed by this cosmopolitan scene. The guy who tries to take him off to see the director has a kind of mid-20th C New York accent and I hear the line in question as an allusion to being taken by mobsters for a ride "just across the river" to be ripped off or worse. It sort of says "don't put on airs, you're just trying to rip me off like the wise guys back home." also think you're supposed to think of the Bridge-selling trope which makes it sound more blasé wise-guy-ish.
posted by ojocaliente at 10:54 PM on September 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by ojocaliente at 10:54 PM on September 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
The old headquarters of Murder Inc was in a 24 hour candy store (!) in Brooklyn:
posted by jamjam at 12:50 AM on September 8, 2022 [9 favorites]
Murder Incorporated was created in the 1930s to act as the execution squad of the newly formed National Crime Syndicate. The death squad was comprised of mostly Jewish and Italian gangsters centered around the Brownsville neighbourhood of Brooklyn. Exact numbers aren’t known, but it is estimated that Murder Inc., carried out 400-1000 executions, making the innocent looking candy store responsible for more murders than anywhere else in the United States.So perhaps this was a reference to his understanding that they had been summoned to kill him and dispose of his body.
The National Crime Syndicate was the ruling elite of East Coast organized crime, counting amongst their ruthless members Lucky Luciano, Meyer Lansky, Bugsy Siegel and Dutch Shultz. Murder Inc. was run by Louis “Lepke” Buchalter and Albert Anastasia, known as the ‘Lord High Executioner’. The group of killers were paid a basic retaining salary and a freelancer fee for each hit of anywhere from $1,000 to $5,000. Rosie Gold kept a wall of pay phones along the back wall of the candy store; the members of Murder Inc., would pass the time at the Midnight Rose, sipping on Rosie’s malted milks until one of the phones rang, giving the details of the hit.
posted by jamjam at 12:50 AM on September 8, 2022 [9 favorites]
Caveat that I haven't seen the movie, but in the context provided, I'd think it was a reference to Brooklyn's early/mid century reputation for being more rough-and-tumble/unsavory. In A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, published around the same time but set earlier, there's a mention of Francie's Brooklyn accent marking her as lower-class. Also that bit in Newsies where everyone is afraid of Brooklyn/Spot Conlon.
So to me, he's saying "Argentina, like New York, has this built-in contrast between fancy cosmpolitan culture [casino = Manhattan] and thugs like yourselves [Brooklyn]." He's being snarky/sarcastic because he's too cool to be scared.
I guess the Brooklyn Bridge reference is layered in there, too, but I don't take the line as a reference to being a gullible tourist. "The boss wants a word with you" is pretty clear mobster-talk for "You pissed off someone important and now we must kill you."
posted by basalganglia at 4:13 AM on September 8, 2022
So to me, he's saying "Argentina, like New York, has this built-in contrast between fancy cosmpolitan culture [casino = Manhattan] and thugs like yourselves [Brooklyn]." He's being snarky/sarcastic because he's too cool to be scared.
I guess the Brooklyn Bridge reference is layered in there, too, but I don't take the line as a reference to being a gullible tourist. "The boss wants a word with you" is pretty clear mobster-talk for "You pissed off someone important and now we must kill you."
posted by basalganglia at 4:13 AM on September 8, 2022
So perhaps this was a reference to his understanding that they had been summoned to kill him and dispose of his body.
I’m certain this is the intended meaning. Or, to not be so final, an invitation to return his winnings or be beaten senseless. Brooklyn of that era was not the hip enclave it is today.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:58 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I’m certain this is the intended meaning. Or, to not be so final, an invitation to return his winnings or be beaten senseless. Brooklyn of that era was not the hip enclave it is today.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:58 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I agree with everyone's sense of the general vibe; was just wondering if it was a reference to a specific saying (could imagine a world in which, e.g., being "taken across the river" was a slang reference to being ripped off, or strong-armed, or even murdered).
posted by praemunire at 8:18 AM on September 8, 2022
posted by praemunire at 8:18 AM on September 8, 2022
Best answer: You can watch the first 15 minutes of the movie on YouTube if that helps anyone.
I’m not sure there’s a real definitive answer. They used to crank out movies back in the day. It looks like Columbia Pictures put out 55 movies in 1946 and this was just one of them. So you’re getting a lot of style, snappy dialog, and things that don’t make a lot of sense if you think about them. Like how does Mundson know he had loaded dice in his pocket? Why is he even there? Why does he invite a gambling cheat to gamble in his own casino?
The line kind of reads to me as a callback to another line that was in an earlier draft of the script or edited out. Like if back on the docks Mundson had said something like “you should be more careful, they’ll kill you on the streets here”, and Farrell had responded “back in America they’ll just take you over to Brooklyn and give you the business” then this line makes more sense to me.
posted by cali59 at 9:29 AM on September 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I’m not sure there’s a real definitive answer. They used to crank out movies back in the day. It looks like Columbia Pictures put out 55 movies in 1946 and this was just one of them. So you’re getting a lot of style, snappy dialog, and things that don’t make a lot of sense if you think about them. Like how does Mundson know he had loaded dice in his pocket? Why is he even there? Why does he invite a gambling cheat to gamble in his own casino?
The line kind of reads to me as a callback to another line that was in an earlier draft of the script or edited out. Like if back on the docks Mundson had said something like “you should be more careful, they’ll kill you on the streets here”, and Farrell had responded “back in America they’ll just take you over to Brooklyn and give you the business” then this line makes more sense to me.
posted by cali59 at 9:29 AM on September 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Why is [Mundson] even there? Why does he invite a gambling cheat to gamble in his own casino?
Rich man down at the docks alone at night for some reason....hmmmmmm...
posted by praemunire at 9:59 AM on September 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Rich man down at the docks alone at night for some reason....hmmmmmm...
posted by praemunire at 9:59 AM on September 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by stopgap at 10:14 PM on September 7, 2022 [2 favorites]