Do I keep my Volvo?
April 21, 2009 10:13 AM Subscribe
Three-part Question:
1. How much is a 2004 Volvo XC70 with 103000 miles on it worth? Craigslist and Cars.com suggest in the $8000 - $14,000
2. I own the car and don't need to make any payments. Assuming insurance, etc. will remain relatively the same, at what point does the annual cost of maintaining the car become excessive? I currently pay around $3000/yr to maintain it. My sense is that I'm past the value threshold for this car. (Hint: I think the trade in threshold occurs BEFORE repairs equal the total value of the car).
3. I love the Volvo in principal: All Wheel Drive, Lots of Cargo Space, Comfortable Interior, but hate it for practical reasons outlined above. Please help me find another car. Consumer reports seems to favor used Subaru Foresters.
You could always stop maintaining it, run it into the ground and then donate it for a tax write off.
posted by zeoslap at 10:27 AM on April 21, 2009
posted by zeoslap at 10:27 AM on April 21, 2009
Let's say you want to get another Volvo, approx. $30K. (Granted, a pretty low-ball estimate for most Volvos.)
Take the average trade-in of 8,000 - 14,000: $11,000. You have roughly $19K to make up.
Let's be optimistic and take out an interest-free monthly car loan with payments over 60 months, let's say: $320 * 60: $19,200.
Take yearly insurance on new Volvo, let's say for argument's sake: $1200.
You would spend $1200 + (12*$320) = $5040 for owning a new Volvo the first year.
You currently spend $3000 maintaining your old Volvo. A new Volvo is $5040 per year. Keeping the old car saves you $2040.
For a Suburu, recrunch the numbers. The difference will tell you if it makes rational sense for you to get a new car.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:31 AM on April 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
Take the average trade-in of 8,000 - 14,000: $11,000. You have roughly $19K to make up.
Let's be optimistic and take out an interest-free monthly car loan with payments over 60 months, let's say: $320 * 60: $19,200.
Take yearly insurance on new Volvo, let's say for argument's sake: $1200.
You would spend $1200 + (12*$320) = $5040 for owning a new Volvo the first year.
You currently spend $3000 maintaining your old Volvo. A new Volvo is $5040 per year. Keeping the old car saves you $2040.
For a Suburu, recrunch the numbers. The difference will tell you if it makes rational sense for you to get a new car.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:31 AM on April 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
I currently pay around $3000/yr to maintain it.
That seems like an awful lot for a 5-year-old car with only 100K miles on it, assuming you mean $3,000 USD. (For comparison, we've paid less than $2,000 year over the last three years to maintain our 1995 Honda Civic, which has 250,000 miles on it; my dad pays less than $1,000 per year to maintain his 1996 Toyota Corolla, though that has low miles in comparison because he's 81.)
So maybe you're better off ditching this car, and/or finding a new mechanic.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:32 AM on April 21, 2009
That seems like an awful lot for a 5-year-old car with only 100K miles on it, assuming you mean $3,000 USD. (For comparison, we've paid less than $2,000 year over the last three years to maintain our 1995 Honda Civic, which has 250,000 miles on it; my dad pays less than $1,000 per year to maintain his 1996 Toyota Corolla, though that has low miles in comparison because he's 81.)
So maybe you're better off ditching this car, and/or finding a new mechanic.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:32 AM on April 21, 2009
As long as repair costs are less than what you would be paying on a new car, you're ahead. The value of your car simply affects what you would be paying on a new car, and with that, you took the biggest hit in year one on depreciation. As the car gets older, year to year depreciation becomes smaller, so less of an issue the older the car is.
Also, you're paying too much in maintenance. Either you have a lemon (which seems unlikely) or perhaps you're paying a dealer for service. Dealers tend to charge very high rates and perform service that isn't required.
You should be able to get high-quality maintenance from an independent mechanic for (guessing here) 1/3 to 1/2 what you're paying now.
posted by zippy at 10:46 AM on April 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, you're paying too much in maintenance. Either you have a lemon (which seems unlikely) or perhaps you're paying a dealer for service. Dealers tend to charge very high rates and perform service that isn't required.
You should be able to get high-quality maintenance from an independent mechanic for (guessing here) 1/3 to 1/2 what you're paying now.
posted by zippy at 10:46 AM on April 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
I just ran a real quick guesstimate of your car on the Kelley Blue Book site, and it suggests that your car is worth somewhere between $8000-$10,000. Trade-in value is $6500-$8800. That's for my zip code, and with a select number of options. You should check out the site.
posted by nushustu at 10:52 AM on April 21, 2009
posted by nushustu at 10:52 AM on April 21, 2009
current resale values are by and large depressed in relation to KBB/CL/Cars.com
Factor that in the transactional cost of changing vehicles
posted by stratastar at 10:55 AM on April 21, 2009
Factor that in the transactional cost of changing vehicles
posted by stratastar at 10:55 AM on April 21, 2009
That seems like an awful lot for a 5-year-old car with only 100K miles on it.
Hah -- you've obviously never owned a Volvo made after the mid-1990s...
As observed by other commenters, there are plenty of cars that will last well into the 200,000-mile range without major repairs and super-costly regular dealer maintenance. Most are Japanese brands.
I'd stay away from any Subaru produced before 2002, however.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 10:55 AM on April 21, 2009
Hah -- you've obviously never owned a Volvo made after the mid-1990s...
As observed by other commenters, there are plenty of cars that will last well into the 200,000-mile range without major repairs and super-costly regular dealer maintenance. Most are Japanese brands.
I'd stay away from any Subaru produced before 2002, however.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 10:55 AM on April 21, 2009
Response by poster: RE: High Cost of Repairs
Yes, the dealer charges a Ton, and that's where the bulk of the cost came from. But I also have taken it to another garage that I trust, and they seem to be coming in at around the same cost. Plus, even though they have state of the art equip, they always seem to have trouble with the Volvo's computer. Of course I've gone to these different garages for different repairs, so it's not a 1-1 comparison, but the fact remains: This thing is expensive.
These costs are VERY high compared to my 1996 Honda, which almost never requires repairs in excess of $500.
posted by rselover at 11:00 AM on April 21, 2009
Yes, the dealer charges a Ton, and that's where the bulk of the cost came from. But I also have taken it to another garage that I trust, and they seem to be coming in at around the same cost. Plus, even though they have state of the art equip, they always seem to have trouble with the Volvo's computer. Of course I've gone to these different garages for different repairs, so it's not a 1-1 comparison, but the fact remains: This thing is expensive.
These costs are VERY high compared to my 1996 Honda, which almost never requires repairs in excess of $500.
posted by rselover at 11:00 AM on April 21, 2009
Sorry for the derail here, but I'm amazed that Volvo cars are high maint. I was assuming they were like Hondas -- solid, well built, no surprises. My old 1990 Honda, like your 1996, almost never needed more $500 a year.
posted by zippy at 11:18 AM on April 21, 2009
posted by zippy at 11:18 AM on April 21, 2009
Volvo built that reputation for durability in the '70s and '80s, and they've been coasting on it for years (just like Volkswagen and, though it pains me to say it, Toyota).
posted by box at 11:28 AM on April 21, 2009
posted by box at 11:28 AM on April 21, 2009
Response by poster: OK, so now I get the math involved. Can somebody recommend a car with All Wheel Drive, Good Gas Mileage, and low maintenance costs?
posted by rselover at 11:58 AM on April 21, 2009
posted by rselover at 11:58 AM on April 21, 2009
Ford purchased Volvo in 1999.
The bulletproof reputation of 140/240 series cars built during the 1970s-1990s is well deserved. To a certain extent, the same is true of the 740/760. It is not at all true of any recent Volvos that have a model name starting with a letter.
Your XC70 is built on the Ford D3 Platform, and shares nothing except a brand name with the cars that built Volvo's reputation for reliability.
Volvo's reputation for expensive parts, and a seeming intolerance for mechanics that also work on other brands? Well, Ford kept those.
If there is an independent shop in your town that only works on Volvos, you should take your car to them. By the time you've turned 100,000 miles, you've probably already replaced most of the parts that are inherently going to wear out, especially if you've been spending $3k a year on this car for a while. It's not unlikely that your ongoing maintenance costs would go down for the next couple of years. A good Volvo mechanic can usually tell you if this will be true for you, if they are paid to spend an hour or two evaluating your ride.
But... to answer your question... I say, keep the Volvo. You say that you like it in point #3... and it's clearly a perfectly adequate, well maintained car. In points #1 and #2, you're treating your car as an investment. If the car does what you want to do, and you're happy when you're driving it, and the total cost of ownership/maintenance is within your yearly transportation budget, you should keep it.
posted by toxic at 11:59 AM on April 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
The bulletproof reputation of 140/240 series cars built during the 1970s-1990s is well deserved. To a certain extent, the same is true of the 740/760. It is not at all true of any recent Volvos that have a model name starting with a letter.
Your XC70 is built on the Ford D3 Platform, and shares nothing except a brand name with the cars that built Volvo's reputation for reliability.
Volvo's reputation for expensive parts, and a seeming intolerance for mechanics that also work on other brands? Well, Ford kept those.
If there is an independent shop in your town that only works on Volvos, you should take your car to them. By the time you've turned 100,000 miles, you've probably already replaced most of the parts that are inherently going to wear out, especially if you've been spending $3k a year on this car for a while. It's not unlikely that your ongoing maintenance costs would go down for the next couple of years. A good Volvo mechanic can usually tell you if this will be true for you, if they are paid to spend an hour or two evaluating your ride.
But... to answer your question... I say, keep the Volvo. You say that you like it in point #3... and it's clearly a perfectly adequate, well maintained car. In points #1 and #2, you're treating your car as an investment. If the car does what you want to do, and you're happy when you're driving it, and the total cost of ownership/maintenance is within your yearly transportation budget, you should keep it.
posted by toxic at 11:59 AM on April 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
>Can somebody recommend a car with All Wheel Drive, Good Gas Mileage, and low maintenance costs?
I drive a Ford Freestyle, now branded as Taurus X. Excellent vehicle.
posted by yclipse at 2:33 PM on April 21, 2009
I drive a Ford Freestyle, now branded as Taurus X. Excellent vehicle.
posted by yclipse at 2:33 PM on April 21, 2009
Rav-4s and CRVs aren't bad choices either. These both have four-wheel, rather than all-wheel, drive, though. And speaking of that: do you really need AWD, op? Because if you don't, it'll really open your options.
posted by box at 2:36 PM on April 21, 2009
posted by box at 2:36 PM on April 21, 2009
Are you willing to do any wrench twirling yourself? While the parts for a Volvo tend to be pricy, there have been a couple times where I've done a repair myself and turned a $1000 job into a $200 job.
Also, what percentage of your repairs have been suspension related? (I'm just curious because I know the earlier XC models were kind of underdesigned in that department.)
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:40 PM on April 21, 2009
Also, what percentage of your repairs have been suspension related? (I'm just curious because I know the earlier XC models were kind of underdesigned in that department.)
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:40 PM on April 21, 2009
My brother has a manual Rav-4. From my own experiences in driving it between Philadelphia and Vermont, they are very noisy at highway speeds, underpowered and uncomfortable.
But his is pretty old and seems to take a lot of abuse without costing my dad too much in repairs. Granted, my dad does most of the repair work, but he doesn't seem to have to do much, and he has an easy time going to the scrap yard to look for some replacement body parts.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:27 PM on April 21, 2009
But his is pretty old and seems to take a lot of abuse without costing my dad too much in repairs. Granted, my dad does most of the repair work, but he doesn't seem to have to do much, and he has an easy time going to the scrap yard to look for some replacement body parts.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:27 PM on April 21, 2009
Can somebody recommend a car with All Wheel Drive, Good Gas Mileage, and low maintenance costs?
If you add "loads of cargo space" and "Comfortable Interior" from your lists of things that you love about your Volvo, it's going to narrow your choices a whole lot. Volvos are comfortable, because they're a luxury brand.
A post-2003 Forester, especially the higher-end models, might suit you... but Foresters (and Subarus in general) tend to be oriented more towards utility than luxury. Some people love leather interiors with soft shag carpeting, warm wood trim, and mood lighting. Others love having rubberized floors that can be hosed out and seats that are resistant to both toddler and terrier vomit. Subaru targets the second set of buyers. Is that you?
The CRV and RAV4 are both AWD (in that they have center differentials and a full-time system). Neither have the luxurious feel that your Volvo does. Both will ride less comfortably (and louder) over bumpy roads because of their additional SUV-like height and short wheelbase (they'll also likely not corner as well). They're really just tall compact station wagons, but the manufacturers have tried to make them more SUV-like (high driving position, third row seats, soft suspension) ... which does not appeal to all buyers.
All of these will have less cargo room than your Volvo. They'll be 12-18 inches shorter, too.
More in-line with your Volvo is something like an Audi A6, A4, or possibly a VW Passat. Most A4s and A6es have turned out to be reliable, but you must keep them maintained (though since dealer-maintenance is free during the warranty period on new-ish Audis, you're more likely to find one that's been on-time for every service). All are available with AWD (Quattro on the Audi, 4motion on the VW).
BMW makes awd wagons, in both 325 and 540 guise (if the model includes the letters "ix" it's got AWD). I've never driven either, but the 5-series was the sport wagon for a long time, and I've seen a lot more 325ix'es on the road to Tahoe than I have in the past.
And of course, there's always a newer Volvo.
posted by toxic at 4:16 PM on April 21, 2009
If you add "loads of cargo space" and "Comfortable Interior" from your lists of things that you love about your Volvo, it's going to narrow your choices a whole lot. Volvos are comfortable, because they're a luxury brand.
A post-2003 Forester, especially the higher-end models, might suit you... but Foresters (and Subarus in general) tend to be oriented more towards utility than luxury. Some people love leather interiors with soft shag carpeting, warm wood trim, and mood lighting. Others love having rubberized floors that can be hosed out and seats that are resistant to both toddler and terrier vomit. Subaru targets the second set of buyers. Is that you?
The CRV and RAV4 are both AWD (in that they have center differentials and a full-time system). Neither have the luxurious feel that your Volvo does. Both will ride less comfortably (and louder) over bumpy roads because of their additional SUV-like height and short wheelbase (they'll also likely not corner as well). They're really just tall compact station wagons, but the manufacturers have tried to make them more SUV-like (high driving position, third row seats, soft suspension) ... which does not appeal to all buyers.
All of these will have less cargo room than your Volvo. They'll be 12-18 inches shorter, too.
More in-line with your Volvo is something like an Audi A6, A4, or possibly a VW Passat. Most A4s and A6es have turned out to be reliable, but you must keep them maintained (though since dealer-maintenance is free during the warranty period on new-ish Audis, you're more likely to find one that's been on-time for every service). All are available with AWD (Quattro on the Audi, 4motion on the VW).
BMW makes awd wagons, in both 325 and 540 guise (if the model includes the letters "ix" it's got AWD). I've never driven either, but the 5-series was the sport wagon for a long time, and I've seen a lot more 325ix'es on the road to Tahoe than I have in the past.
And of course, there's always a newer Volvo.
posted by toxic at 4:16 PM on April 21, 2009
Older cars cost less to insure. My state charges excise tax, basically a car property tax, and lower value means lower tax. Do you really need 4 wheel drive? I drive an older Toyota RAV4, 2WD, and never get stuck in snow. In Maine. The higher clearance off the ground, and good tires, are all I need.
posted by theora55 at 4:29 PM on April 21, 2009
posted by theora55 at 4:29 PM on April 21, 2009
You might like the H6 Subaru Legacy/Outback wagons. The sixes have all the stuff in your list with the possible exception of "good fuel economy" - it is worth checking.
posted by jet_silver at 4:53 PM on April 21, 2009
posted by jet_silver at 4:53 PM on April 21, 2009
I personally say the cost of getting a new vehicle NEVER outweighs the cost of maintaining an existing vehicle in pure dollars and cents. Whether you are paying $3000 a year for car payments or for maintenance, that's money you are spending to have a working car. And you still have to maintain a new car- still have to get oil changes and tire rotations and the rest. The equation starts to tip when the car ceases to be reliable (but for $3000 a year in repairs, that should never happen), or when the body starts to fail.
On the other hand, just work the numbers. Come up with a number for how long you want to own the car for. Say it's for another 3 years. Add up what you paid for it plus what you've already paid in repairs, plus what you expect another 3 years of repairs to be. Divide that by the appropriate number of years (or months) to determine the yearly (or monthly) cost of the vehicle. Then do the same with whatever new car you are thinking of getting. You'll have your answer.
(I'd love to know what you have had to have repaired on that car that it's costing you $250 a month. Either that car is a big-time lemon, or someone is taking advantage of you. Did you buy the car new? Or did you get it pre-owned? Perhaps the previous owner beat the living hell out of it.)
posted by gjc at 6:20 PM on April 21, 2009
On the other hand, just work the numbers. Come up with a number for how long you want to own the car for. Say it's for another 3 years. Add up what you paid for it plus what you've already paid in repairs, plus what you expect another 3 years of repairs to be. Divide that by the appropriate number of years (or months) to determine the yearly (or monthly) cost of the vehicle. Then do the same with whatever new car you are thinking of getting. You'll have your answer.
(I'd love to know what you have had to have repaired on that car that it's costing you $250 a month. Either that car is a big-time lemon, or someone is taking advantage of you. Did you buy the car new? Or did you get it pre-owned? Perhaps the previous owner beat the living hell out of it.)
posted by gjc at 6:20 PM on April 21, 2009
BMW 3-series. The 328x will get you 30 MPG highway, has all-wheel-drive, and maintenance is included during the warranty period.
posted by luckypozzo at 6:39 PM on April 21, 2009
posted by luckypozzo at 6:39 PM on April 21, 2009
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