How do I decide what to do with my life?
August 17, 2008 12:40 AM Subscribe
Good News: I'm a 1L enrolled in a Top 20 law school. Bad News: I'm no longer sure I want to be a lawyer.
I graduated from an Ivy League Engineering program this spring, and fairly soon am due to start classes at a Top 20 law school. However, after going through the orientation program I've realized I really don't know why I'm here or why I'd want to be a lawyer, I blanch at the thought of 70+ hour work weeks or competing for spots in journals/clinics/internships/etc, and I so far hate the city I'm in. I really just took the LSAT as a backup plan after having a disappointing engineering-related summer internship (I didn't even study for it), and then got caught up in things when the results came back rather positively. While I was given a scholarship covering almost 80% of tuition at this Top 20 school, it's the only one of the almost dozen schools I applied to that didn't waitlist or outright reject my application, and is conditional on maintaining a high GPA (which I've read here are typically lost).
I have talked to Academic Advising, which suggested that I should not continue if I am uncertain. I have scoured the internet, which suggested that I should very much not continue if I am uncertain.
I am however still not sure what I should do. If I later end up wanting to go to law school, it is unlikely I could get as large a scholarship or get into such a high end school, and so would be a large source of anguish. I do however, coming from a prestigious undergrad program with a vaunted technical degree, supposedly have many other career options, several of which pay similarly to what an average lawyer would expect but with far less of a time commitment. It is possible (though I have yet to confirm) that I could still apply for a deferral and work somewhere else for a year before coming back. I had initially considered this, but found that by doing so I would still be losing out on the scholarship (which even if just kept for the first year covers a very large amount).
Aside from perhaps changing my mind later, the primary issue preventing me from simply calling up the Admissions department tomorrow to cancel is that I feel my family would be very disappointed in me and would constantly bring this up in future years no matter how successful I am in another field (and especially if I am not). They have all been much more encouraging of my activities since I suggested law than they ever were of my pursuing a technical profession, and I haven't even talked to them about these worries since I'm sure it would be very upsetting for them to hear.
Advising also said that it's still possible for me to return textbooks and get tuition money back (and possibly even cancel my housing contract), so I feel the issue here is more potential future costs and how to establish where my life is going. Given these factors, is it worth risking the likely scholarship loss and my family's ire to try to search for a job and possibly wind up wanting to come back to school anyway?
(Note: I read through every thread here tagged with 'lawschool,' but felt the additional info of my alternative career options, the last-minute situation, and the social misgivings were extenuating enough to call for my asking separately)
I graduated from an Ivy League Engineering program this spring, and fairly soon am due to start classes at a Top 20 law school. However, after going through the orientation program I've realized I really don't know why I'm here or why I'd want to be a lawyer, I blanch at the thought of 70+ hour work weeks or competing for spots in journals/clinics/internships/etc, and I so far hate the city I'm in. I really just took the LSAT as a backup plan after having a disappointing engineering-related summer internship (I didn't even study for it), and then got caught up in things when the results came back rather positively. While I was given a scholarship covering almost 80% of tuition at this Top 20 school, it's the only one of the almost dozen schools I applied to that didn't waitlist or outright reject my application, and is conditional on maintaining a high GPA (which I've read here are typically lost).
I have talked to Academic Advising, which suggested that I should not continue if I am uncertain. I have scoured the internet, which suggested that I should very much not continue if I am uncertain.
I am however still not sure what I should do. If I later end up wanting to go to law school, it is unlikely I could get as large a scholarship or get into such a high end school, and so would be a large source of anguish. I do however, coming from a prestigious undergrad program with a vaunted technical degree, supposedly have many other career options, several of which pay similarly to what an average lawyer would expect but with far less of a time commitment. It is possible (though I have yet to confirm) that I could still apply for a deferral and work somewhere else for a year before coming back. I had initially considered this, but found that by doing so I would still be losing out on the scholarship (which even if just kept for the first year covers a very large amount).
Aside from perhaps changing my mind later, the primary issue preventing me from simply calling up the Admissions department tomorrow to cancel is that I feel my family would be very disappointed in me and would constantly bring this up in future years no matter how successful I am in another field (and especially if I am not). They have all been much more encouraging of my activities since I suggested law than they ever were of my pursuing a technical profession, and I haven't even talked to them about these worries since I'm sure it would be very upsetting for them to hear.
Advising also said that it's still possible for me to return textbooks and get tuition money back (and possibly even cancel my housing contract), so I feel the issue here is more potential future costs and how to establish where my life is going. Given these factors, is it worth risking the likely scholarship loss and my family's ire to try to search for a job and possibly wind up wanting to come back to school anyway?
(Note: I read through every thread here tagged with 'lawschool,' but felt the additional info of my alternative career options, the last-minute situation, and the social misgivings were extenuating enough to call for my asking separately)
I would say that it's worth doing for a year. With a massive scholarship and a good school, you have a great opportunity where the costs are relatively low. After a year, you'll be all of what 22, 23?
Lots of law school graduates go on to do things that have nothing to do with law... also, there are a lot of different specialties in law and your engineering degree could prove to be very valuable if you were to pursue that angle.
Don't worry about your family, of course... but, it sounds like you aren't particularly interested in anything right now. You are in your early-20s and you don't want to be locked into anything (I would suspect that 50% of the people in your class feel the same way you do). Your family sees you following a clear path, that's reassuring to them... they are justified to be happy about it.
If you don't know what you really want to do with yourself, then you can spend the next three years growing and maybe you'll find out then. Once you know, then you can reset your goals. If you already know, then go do that, but I think your better off getting a bargain priced degree than dicking around in a job you might hate.
posted by paperzach at 3:12 AM on August 17, 2008
Lots of law school graduates go on to do things that have nothing to do with law... also, there are a lot of different specialties in law and your engineering degree could prove to be very valuable if you were to pursue that angle.
Don't worry about your family, of course... but, it sounds like you aren't particularly interested in anything right now. You are in your early-20s and you don't want to be locked into anything (I would suspect that 50% of the people in your class feel the same way you do). Your family sees you following a clear path, that's reassuring to them... they are justified to be happy about it.
If you don't know what you really want to do with yourself, then you can spend the next three years growing and maybe you'll find out then. Once you know, then you can reset your goals. If you already know, then go do that, but I think your better off getting a bargain priced degree than dicking around in a job you might hate.
posted by paperzach at 3:12 AM on August 17, 2008
If you took a year off, would they defer the scholarship?
posted by k8t at 3:42 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by k8t at 3:42 AM on August 17, 2008
Not to push you one way or the other, but considering how much money they are giving you to attend their prestigious school it may be worth finding out how you could use a law degree instead of just being a lawyer. I would assume that there are tons of unconventional ways in which a law degree can be used (tech law is something that might pique your interest as well).
posted by pwally at 4:14 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by pwally at 4:14 AM on August 17, 2008
I went to law school with the "I'll try it for a year and if I hate I'll leave" mindset, and ended up enjoying myself.
posted by Ponderance at 5:05 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by Ponderance at 5:05 AM on August 17, 2008
Forget your family's disappointment. You have to live with your decision, not them.
There are lots of different kinds of law practices with different levels of job satisfaction or misery. Based on your background, I'm assuming you might be interested in patent law, which tends (generalizing here) to have more favorable working conditions. Solo practitioners tend to be quite happy with their jobs, and smaller firms can offer much better lifestyles than their larger, more prestigious counterparts.
Most importantly, you don't have to be a lawyer if you go to law school. Lots of industries look very kindly on a law degree for various reasons.
That having been said, law school can be really hard. It doesn't have to be, but for those who get caught up in its competitiveness and the outdated nonsense of the legal profession (e.g., the mind boggling professional importance of getting on law review to spend hundreds of hours cite-checking for missing commas and italicized periods), it can really chew you up and spit you out. If you go in with the right attitude - and that may well require rejecting the big-firm rat race that permeates many top schools - you could really enjoy it and come out with a lot of options. Take a good look at the kind of person you are and try to see which camp you might fall into. If you're extremely vulnerable to stress and competitive pressure, either deal with those problems ASAP (e.g. see a counselor or at least be open to seeing one), or forget law school.
If you don't have a history of such problems, I'd try it for a year, since it seems it won't cost you terribly much financially. Try to enjoy it. If you really hate it you can leave.
posted by walla at 5:38 AM on August 17, 2008
There are lots of different kinds of law practices with different levels of job satisfaction or misery. Based on your background, I'm assuming you might be interested in patent law, which tends (generalizing here) to have more favorable working conditions. Solo practitioners tend to be quite happy with their jobs, and smaller firms can offer much better lifestyles than their larger, more prestigious counterparts.
Most importantly, you don't have to be a lawyer if you go to law school. Lots of industries look very kindly on a law degree for various reasons.
That having been said, law school can be really hard. It doesn't have to be, but for those who get caught up in its competitiveness and the outdated nonsense of the legal profession (e.g., the mind boggling professional importance of getting on law review to spend hundreds of hours cite-checking for missing commas and italicized periods), it can really chew you up and spit you out. If you go in with the right attitude - and that may well require rejecting the big-firm rat race that permeates many top schools - you could really enjoy it and come out with a lot of options. Take a good look at the kind of person you are and try to see which camp you might fall into. If you're extremely vulnerable to stress and competitive pressure, either deal with those problems ASAP (e.g. see a counselor or at least be open to seeing one), or forget law school.
If you don't have a history of such problems, I'd try it for a year, since it seems it won't cost you terribly much financially. Try to enjoy it. If you really hate it you can leave.
posted by walla at 5:38 AM on August 17, 2008
Be wary of the "just 1 year" idea. Once you do a year, you'll say "1/3rd done!" and keep on doing it.
posted by k8t at 5:41 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by k8t at 5:41 AM on August 17, 2008
I am a lawyer in a non-practicing career. I work no more than 50 hours a week at a law firm and I adore my job. I work at an IP firm and many of our attorneys, especially the patent prosecutors, work good hours. there are myriad career options out there for you should you stick with law school, just as there are if you leave. You have a technical background that makes you eligible for the patent bar and that opens even more opportunities.
If this is over a concern for money, many firms (though not a majority) will hire you as a law clerk and cover part of your tuition. so, you'd be earning money and tuition. The catch is that you'd have to go to school part time. Don't know if your school allows that, some don't. I did part time but I did it in 3.5 years using summer school.
I would suggest this. you have been blessed with an amazing opportunity to get a taste of a top tier law school for proportionately little money. Take one semester's worth of classes. Give it a real try. Make friends, join study groups, go boozing after finals. Then, make your decision. You'll be out four to five month's worth of work at most and you will have gotten a taste of law school (though 1L is brutal, so keep that in mind too).
I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide. Feel free to email me or mefi mail me to talk.
posted by MeetMegan at 6:45 AM on August 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
If this is over a concern for money, many firms (though not a majority) will hire you as a law clerk and cover part of your tuition. so, you'd be earning money and tuition. The catch is that you'd have to go to school part time. Don't know if your school allows that, some don't. I did part time but I did it in 3.5 years using summer school.
I would suggest this. you have been blessed with an amazing opportunity to get a taste of a top tier law school for proportionately little money. Take one semester's worth of classes. Give it a real try. Make friends, join study groups, go boozing after finals. Then, make your decision. You'll be out four to five month's worth of work at most and you will have gotten a taste of law school (though 1L is brutal, so keep that in mind too).
I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide. Feel free to email me or mefi mail me to talk.
posted by MeetMegan at 6:45 AM on August 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yeah, law school sucks too much to do it without a good reason for doing it. Have you thought about what you could do with a law degree? With an engineering degree, jobs in intellectual property would be available to you (they aren't for people without hard science or math-y majors). Does that interest you?
Here's what I think you should do: Go to class for a couple weeks. Who knows, it might end up clicking and then you'll love it. While you're doing this, talk to your career office about employment in law. You might find out some surprising area of employment that you'd be interested in exploring.
If you're still really ambivalent, then I'd quit. Most schools offer prorated tuition, so the money hit isn't super big, and you'll get a firm idea of what's going on with law school. The reason I'm not saying quit off the bat is because it doesn't seem like you have some other path you really want to take (ie: I LOVE engineering bridges or something), it just seems like you're blase about law school. Law school is hard enough when you really want to do it, so when you don't really want to do it then it's tough to find the motivation to gut out the hard parts.
About quitting and coming back later: not a big deal. I also wouldn't worry about the scholarship too much. Although you're at a top 20 now, it's not the seal of death to go to a worse school. If you go back later and have a good idea of where you want to practice geograpically, then you could go to a lower ranked and potentially cheaper law school and not really suffer any hit in employment prospects (and your class rank should be even higher because this school is lower ranked, right?). For example, to get a job in Atlanta you can go to Yale or you can go to UGA, and one is $20K cheaper. Also, many many people do not go straight through from college to law school and that's not a big deal.
Good luck! Email me or whatever if you need to.
posted by lockestockbarrel at 6:53 AM on August 17, 2008
Here's what I think you should do: Go to class for a couple weeks. Who knows, it might end up clicking and then you'll love it. While you're doing this, talk to your career office about employment in law. You might find out some surprising area of employment that you'd be interested in exploring.
If you're still really ambivalent, then I'd quit. Most schools offer prorated tuition, so the money hit isn't super big, and you'll get a firm idea of what's going on with law school. The reason I'm not saying quit off the bat is because it doesn't seem like you have some other path you really want to take (ie: I LOVE engineering bridges or something), it just seems like you're blase about law school. Law school is hard enough when you really want to do it, so when you don't really want to do it then it's tough to find the motivation to gut out the hard parts.
About quitting and coming back later: not a big deal. I also wouldn't worry about the scholarship too much. Although you're at a top 20 now, it's not the seal of death to go to a worse school. If you go back later and have a good idea of where you want to practice geograpically, then you could go to a lower ranked and potentially cheaper law school and not really suffer any hit in employment prospects (and your class rank should be even higher because this school is lower ranked, right?). For example, to get a job in Atlanta you can go to Yale or you can go to UGA, and one is $20K cheaper. Also, many many people do not go straight through from college to law school and that's not a big deal.
Good luck! Email me or whatever if you need to.
posted by lockestockbarrel at 6:53 AM on August 17, 2008
You have an engineering background and so can obviously handle studying and time management (presuming you kept a respectable gpa). You scored highly on the lsat without studying and so obviously have the innate smarts. And you have no particular direction currently. And obviously you are a type A worrier asking this pointless question here, like any response would have any effect on what is going to happen: You my friend are a nascent law tool. You will attend your law school, you will study, you will grade well enough, and you will be a big firm cog in two years. Enjoy the ride and remember spending copious amounts of cash on alcohol and women every week is what your country expects of you.
posted by norabarnacl3 at 7:12 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by norabarnacl3 at 7:12 AM on August 17, 2008
IAMAL. Many of my friends from law school are unhappy eight years out. My boss after 30 years of practice seems absolutely miserable. Working at a career that you dislike can be soul crushing. You really only get one chance at life. You don't want to graduate from law school with potentially 35-40 years of miserable days stretching before you. If your only reason for going to law school is to avoid having your family give you a hard time, you shouldn't go. Go do something with your life that will make you happy.
posted by bananafish at 7:44 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by bananafish at 7:44 AM on August 17, 2008
I had a similar "holy crap, these people are assholes" moment in undergrad- an "Intro to Engineering" class where a dean of the engineering dept spent an hour a week telling us all the awful things that an engineering career will be. Literally like "you better be serious, because your screwups will kill people, and you will screw up because you'll be working 70 hour weeks" stuff. I left and did something different. Now I work tangentially with engineers, and see that the realities of the industry are far different.
If you're getting a good deal on the costs, I'd agree to take at least the first year. (I wasn't, and wasn't willing to make that eonomic bet.) As other say, you can do a lot of things with a law degree. Yes, if you want to be one of the elites, you'll have to develop an alcohol problem and work 90 hour weeks. But there are a lot of other, potentiall far more rewarding, career paths available.
Just for example, my high school math teacher was a lawyer. He worked 8-2 at the school carrying a full load of classes, and then did "community" private practice lawyerin' in the afternoons. Wills, real estate, trusts, minor minor criminal stuff. Heck, he probably had a full caseload just from servicing the needs of his fellow teachers. And with the steady teaching paycheck, he had the comfort of being able to pay his bills regardless of the ebb and tide of law work. And he seemed happy- able to practice his law skills and his love of math.
posted by gjc at 7:47 AM on August 17, 2008
If you're getting a good deal on the costs, I'd agree to take at least the first year. (I wasn't, and wasn't willing to make that eonomic bet.) As other say, you can do a lot of things with a law degree. Yes, if you want to be one of the elites, you'll have to develop an alcohol problem and work 90 hour weeks. But there are a lot of other, potentiall far more rewarding, career paths available.
Just for example, my high school math teacher was a lawyer. He worked 8-2 at the school carrying a full load of classes, and then did "community" private practice lawyerin' in the afternoons. Wills, real estate, trusts, minor minor criminal stuff. Heck, he probably had a full caseload just from servicing the needs of his fellow teachers. And with the steady teaching paycheck, he had the comfort of being able to pay his bills regardless of the ebb and tide of law work. And he seemed happy- able to practice his law skills and his love of math.
posted by gjc at 7:47 AM on August 17, 2008
First, recognize that most orientation programs are designed to scare the shit out of you. At best, they are intended to communicate that law school is different than any other academic program you may have experienced before. At worst (and this is typically the case if students are involved in any significant manner), it is a structured form of hazing.
Academic Advising and the internet are right: don't waste your time if you are not committed to this.
Focus your evaluation on your feelings BEFORE orientation. If you were not excited to start, then law school is not the place for you, at least not now.
I'm probably butchering the point, but in his book "Stumbling on Happiness," Daniel Gilbert suggests that one of the best ways to determine whether something will make us happy is to look at people who are already doing what we are considering. With that in mind, read "On Being a Happy, Healthy, and Ethical Member of an Unhappy, Unhealthy, and Unethical Profession" if you want something substantive to chew on.
The article makes clear that lawyers, as a whole, are a very unhappy group of people. My personal experience also confirms that most lawyers live their life filled with constant stress and lots of unhappiness. However, I think that this is more of a chicken and egg argument because the legal profession attracts people who are intelligent, highly-competitive, worriers, and risk-averse--a dangerous combination for personal well-being. With that said, Norabarnacl3's comment is dead on.
posted by ajr at 8:23 AM on August 17, 2008
Academic Advising and the internet are right: don't waste your time if you are not committed to this.
Focus your evaluation on your feelings BEFORE orientation. If you were not excited to start, then law school is not the place for you, at least not now.
I'm probably butchering the point, but in his book "Stumbling on Happiness," Daniel Gilbert suggests that one of the best ways to determine whether something will make us happy is to look at people who are already doing what we are considering. With that in mind, read "On Being a Happy, Healthy, and Ethical Member of an Unhappy, Unhealthy, and Unethical Profession" if you want something substantive to chew on.
The article makes clear that lawyers, as a whole, are a very unhappy group of people. My personal experience also confirms that most lawyers live their life filled with constant stress and lots of unhappiness. However, I think that this is more of a chicken and egg argument because the legal profession attracts people who are intelligent, highly-competitive, worriers, and risk-averse--a dangerous combination for personal well-being. With that said, Norabarnacl3's comment is dead on.
posted by ajr at 8:23 AM on August 17, 2008
An engineering grad that I knew last year faced a similar question (she was actually deciding between a masters program & law), & she ended up loving law school. She's planning on doing biotech IP stuff, and says that while the first bit of law school is useless for that, it's interesting stuff, and a good change of pace from engineering courses.
posted by devilsbrigade at 9:04 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by devilsbrigade at 9:04 AM on August 17, 2008
If you enjoy school, in the sense of reading and learning and analyzing interesting stuff, you may find law school (sometimes) actually fun. You have to decide not to get sucked up in the assholery you can find at every school, especially the top rated ones. You might like it, and you certainly don't need to commit to practice law -- you might leave after a semester or two, but the experience and what you will have learned will probably be valuable wherever you decide to go.
posted by mmf at 9:24 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by mmf at 9:24 AM on August 17, 2008
I think when you are talented enough to have several options, you have the wiggle room to go for what you really want to do (and to give it the time and effort to explore and know that) rather than thinking in terms of pay and time commitment, which are things (like aptitude) that are better explored after you're leaning in a certain direction, not as a means of choosing your interest.
I think having this degree of doubt at this point could make it harder for you to really commit yourself, but also, if you start putting in a lot of hard work and find that you don't really want it, you'll be more likely to resent your situation, and also probably resent your family, since you are letting their feelings factor into your decision.
Personally--and I don't know that it necessarily matters at this point in the process--I would feel a responsibility to allow the admission slot, and perhaps the scholarship, go to someone who is missing out on it and who might have a genuine interest in the field. If it is not possible for others to take advantage of those at this point I might be more likely to dip my toe in and try it out, but I'd feel pretty crappy if I threw away an opportunity someone else might have used.
And generally, it's something we forget as we get mired in the details and paranoias: you're an adult and have the power of decision to shape your life into any form you want it to take. It's a simple idea, but it's surprising how often people in this kind of situation are guided by factors that have nothing to do with their own desires. It's better to nip this is in the bud when you are younger.
posted by troybob at 10:01 AM on August 17, 2008
I think having this degree of doubt at this point could make it harder for you to really commit yourself, but also, if you start putting in a lot of hard work and find that you don't really want it, you'll be more likely to resent your situation, and also probably resent your family, since you are letting their feelings factor into your decision.
Personally--and I don't know that it necessarily matters at this point in the process--I would feel a responsibility to allow the admission slot, and perhaps the scholarship, go to someone who is missing out on it and who might have a genuine interest in the field. If it is not possible for others to take advantage of those at this point I might be more likely to dip my toe in and try it out, but I'd feel pretty crappy if I threw away an opportunity someone else might have used.
And generally, it's something we forget as we get mired in the details and paranoias: you're an adult and have the power of decision to shape your life into any form you want it to take. It's a simple idea, but it's surprising how often people in this kind of situation are guided by factors that have nothing to do with their own desires. It's better to nip this is in the bud when you are younger.
posted by troybob at 10:01 AM on August 17, 2008
(also: at this point you're already thinking in terms of being bound to what could be a bad decision; think about how strong that bind will be a year down the line, when you've put more time and effort into it and when it will seem harder or even impossible to change direction. it's seems this is one of those moments where you're better off trusting your gut than trying to objectively examine the pros and cons.)
posted by troybob at 10:06 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by troybob at 10:06 AM on August 17, 2008
I think it's worth a try. If you decide you like it, great! If you decide you don't, it's better to say down the line, "I could have been a lawyer, yes, but I hated my year of law school!" rather than "What if? I wasted that opportunity maybe I would have loved it!"
But be honest if you don't like it; don't continue down the lawschool path just because you're already invested. That seems like the biggest risk to me.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 10:10 AM on August 17, 2008
But be honest if you don't like it; don't continue down the lawschool path just because you're already invested. That seems like the biggest risk to me.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 10:10 AM on August 17, 2008
If you're not sure you want to be a lawyer, get out while the gettin's good. I was questioning law school first year and then all the way through. I now find myself on the other side of law school wondering why I put myself through it (and how I'm going to pay for it). As for people who went to law school and found themselves doing non-practice work after graduation, sure some may be happy, but even more will say they're happy as they try to rationalize the three years and six figures for a job they could have gotten with their bachelor's degree and three (or fewer) years of actual work experience. I even find myself doing this in conversations with people I'm not very close with. YMMV. And perhaps mine will too in a few years.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 10:39 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by the christopher hundreds at 10:39 AM on August 17, 2008
IAAL. Just how much do you dislike law school so far? If I were you (and had had the fairly extraordinary opportunity to attend a top-20 school with 80% tuition scholarship) I would first try to quantify my level of dislike for law school to determine whether A) the dislike was tolerable enough that I could deal with it for 3 years (which is NOT AT ALL a long time in the scheme of things if you are still in your early 20’s); or B) whether I absolutely hated it to the point where I was losing sleep at night and would much rather be doing anything else.
If A): Stay and muddle through. Make friends, join study groups, participate in class, and do your best. A law degree (especially one from a top tier school) opens doors and will afford you instant credibility in most any career field or venture you decide upon later. (And in my experience, law school might also train your mind to become more efficient, more logical, more persuasive—all beneficial traits for most any pursuit.) If you can deal with the boredom and soulless competition and you at this point cannot think of anything in particular you’d rather be doing, I think you should suck it up and keep going. Also, if you do not intend to pursue a “70-hr week” associate position at a big law firm, it is not as important that you graduate at the very top of your class.
If B): Get out now. If you hate it that much, you should absolutely bail. Disregard your family’s disappointment. They'll get over it, and hey--it’s much easier to want your child to obtain a law degree than it is to actually earn one. Leave that scholarship for someone who will appreciate it and use it. If you were sharp enough to have earned the law scholarship without working your tail off for it than you are probably sharp enough to repeat a similar achievement in some other field more suited to your interests. ….And, of course, America has too many lawyers as it is.
If you decide to stay, you might find that law school’s not so bad; things do improve after the first year. 1L is a cattle call and a pressure cooker—the absolute worst. But things do improve for 2L's and 3L's, when you would be able to select smaller and more interesting classes, more meaningful projects, etc. And then there’s the old adage that the students who hated law school love practicing law, and vice versa....so who knows?? At your age (and again I’m assuming you’re in your early 20’s) you have a valid excuse for not knowing exactly what you want to do. But why not invest 3 short years (a drop in the bucket!) and figure all of this out after you've obtained a J.D. from a top tier school?--And without the staggering debt.
posted by applemeat at 2:45 PM on August 17, 2008
If A): Stay and muddle through. Make friends, join study groups, participate in class, and do your best. A law degree (especially one from a top tier school) opens doors and will afford you instant credibility in most any career field or venture you decide upon later. (And in my experience, law school might also train your mind to become more efficient, more logical, more persuasive—all beneficial traits for most any pursuit.) If you can deal with the boredom and soulless competition and you at this point cannot think of anything in particular you’d rather be doing, I think you should suck it up and keep going. Also, if you do not intend to pursue a “70-hr week” associate position at a big law firm, it is not as important that you graduate at the very top of your class.
If B): Get out now. If you hate it that much, you should absolutely bail. Disregard your family’s disappointment. They'll get over it, and hey--it’s much easier to want your child to obtain a law degree than it is to actually earn one. Leave that scholarship for someone who will appreciate it and use it. If you were sharp enough to have earned the law scholarship without working your tail off for it than you are probably sharp enough to repeat a similar achievement in some other field more suited to your interests. ….And, of course, America has too many lawyers as it is.
If you decide to stay, you might find that law school’s not so bad; things do improve after the first year. 1L is a cattle call and a pressure cooker—the absolute worst. But things do improve for 2L's and 3L's, when you would be able to select smaller and more interesting classes, more meaningful projects, etc. And then there’s the old adage that the students who hated law school love practicing law, and vice versa....so who knows?? At your age (and again I’m assuming you’re in your early 20’s) you have a valid excuse for not knowing exactly what you want to do. But why not invest 3 short years (a drop in the bucket!) and figure all of this out after you've obtained a J.D. from a top tier school?--And without the staggering debt.
posted by applemeat at 2:45 PM on August 17, 2008
"jobs in intellectual property...aren't [available] for people without hard science or math-y majors"
Not true. IP law comprises three primary (but rather dissimilar) fields; Patent Law, Copyright Law, and Trademark Law. Only patent bar certification requires a "hard science or math-y" degree ...OR a specific number of credit hours in college-level science and/or math ...OR acceptable (to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office) career or life experiences involving science and/or engineering.
I don't mean to split hairs here, but I so often hear misconceptions about IP law, (e.g. "can I copyright my dump truck?" "Our band patented this song!") and the notion that all IP lawyers need be biochemical engineers is one of them.
posted by applemeat at 3:05 PM on August 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Not true. IP law comprises three primary (but rather dissimilar) fields; Patent Law, Copyright Law, and Trademark Law. Only patent bar certification requires a "hard science or math-y" degree ...OR a specific number of credit hours in college-level science and/or math ...OR acceptable (to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office) career or life experiences involving science and/or engineering.
I don't mean to split hairs here, but I so often hear misconceptions about IP law, (e.g. "can I copyright my dump truck?" "Our band patented this song!") and the notion that all IP lawyers need be biochemical engineers is one of them.
posted by applemeat at 3:05 PM on August 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Don't worry about reapplying and not getting into the same range of schools. It's overwhelmingly likely that you'd actually improve your admissions (and scholarship) chances across the board by taking a few years off and doing pretty much anything.
If you're really unsure, I'd take some time off. Law school is not the universally bad option for uncertain types that some people depict it as, but you'd might as well explore some other areas for at least a few years first, and see if there's anything else that really excites you. Law school will always be there, and the application process is pretty simple. You won't have any trouble getting back into it a few years from now, if that's what you decide to do.
posted by decoherence at 5:26 PM on August 17, 2008
If you're really unsure, I'd take some time off. Law school is not the universally bad option for uncertain types that some people depict it as, but you'd might as well explore some other areas for at least a few years first, and see if there's anything else that really excites you. Law school will always be there, and the application process is pretty simple. You won't have any trouble getting back into it a few years from now, if that's what you decide to do.
posted by decoherence at 5:26 PM on August 17, 2008
I do however, coming from a prestigious undergrad program with a vaunted technical degree, supposedly have many other career options, several of which pay similarly to what an average lawyer would expect.
Your overall upside as a top 20 law graduate, is way higher than engineering on average.
Do the first year--if you don't like it, drop out.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:26 PM on August 17, 2008
Your overall upside as a top 20 law graduate, is way higher than engineering on average.
Do the first year--if you don't like it, drop out.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:26 PM on August 17, 2008
I don't have any advice about what particular path you should take.
I strongly advise you that, whatever you do, you should throw yourself into it with your greatest effort. If you persist in going to law school, as it seems you're likely to, give it everything you have. Make the decision to go and then try to shoot out the lights.
Here is some advice about what not to do; don't throw away this perfectly good opportunity without an equally good backup plan. For example: If suddenly you have the chance to travel to Bangladesh and help install clean water pumps and filters and benefit villagers and write a thesis and apply for funds to expand the program, and that seems like it'd be the highest and best good for you, well, there's something you can throw yourself into with passion.
Dumping this opportunity, which you have worked hard to gain, in favor of nothing, is not an option. It is the non-option. You should not do it. If you cannot think of a compelling thing to do, make law school your #1 priority as stated above, make figuring out what you really want to do in life your #2 priority, and as soon as you figure out #2 you can bail out on #1.
I can't think of very many worthwhile things to accomplish that wouldn't be easier with a law degree, by the way. Lawyers know the rules of the game; the rest of us play blind.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:48 AM on August 18, 2008 [1 favorite]
I strongly advise you that, whatever you do, you should throw yourself into it with your greatest effort. If you persist in going to law school, as it seems you're likely to, give it everything you have. Make the decision to go and then try to shoot out the lights.
Here is some advice about what not to do; don't throw away this perfectly good opportunity without an equally good backup plan. For example: If suddenly you have the chance to travel to Bangladesh and help install clean water pumps and filters and benefit villagers and write a thesis and apply for funds to expand the program, and that seems like it'd be the highest and best good for you, well, there's something you can throw yourself into with passion.
Dumping this opportunity, which you have worked hard to gain, in favor of nothing, is not an option. It is the non-option. You should not do it. If you cannot think of a compelling thing to do, make law school your #1 priority as stated above, make figuring out what you really want to do in life your #2 priority, and as soon as you figure out #2 you can bail out on #1.
I can't think of very many worthwhile things to accomplish that wouldn't be easier with a law degree, by the way. Lawyers know the rules of the game; the rest of us play blind.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:48 AM on August 18, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I would like to thank everyone who posted a reply here, and thought I should post an update to close the thread. BTW, special thank you to ajr for directing me to that article; it was a very enlightening read and I may be passing it to others.
I have come to the conclusion, based on this and other threads posted here, that I would be better off not staying in law school and would be better off searching for a job in the engineering field (which btw is unfortunately not one of those eligible for the Patent Bar) that I studied during undergrad. However, as it turns out, the decision is not actually up to me.
I attempted to bring the subject of my current dislike of the situation to my mother this morning and, following the hour and extra of screaming at me, which included that she "would rather [I] be miserable for the next fifteen weeks," that I must be "not right in the head to even consider it," and that I am "showing extreme disrespect and lack of faith in [her] as a parent because [she] is clearly right in this matter due to her advanced age and experience," was notified that she would disown me if I so much as attempt to withdraw "or do anything rash" before the end of the semester, and that I further am required to "give it [my] 100% best effort" while here.
I may not have earlier conveyed the depth of "my family's ire," so I am sorry to have wasted all of your time on an issue in which I cannot actually make use of your answers.
posted by liesbyomission at 3:27 PM on August 18, 2008
I have come to the conclusion, based on this and other threads posted here, that I would be better off not staying in law school and would be better off searching for a job in the engineering field (which btw is unfortunately not one of those eligible for the Patent Bar) that I studied during undergrad. However, as it turns out, the decision is not actually up to me.
I attempted to bring the subject of my current dislike of the situation to my mother this morning and, following the hour and extra of screaming at me, which included that she "would rather [I] be miserable for the next fifteen weeks," that I must be "not right in the head to even consider it," and that I am "showing extreme disrespect and lack of faith in [her] as a parent because [she] is clearly right in this matter due to her advanced age and experience," was notified that she would disown me if I so much as attempt to withdraw "or do anything rash" before the end of the semester, and that I further am required to "give it [my] 100% best effort" while here.
I may not have earlier conveyed the depth of "my family's ire," so I am sorry to have wasted all of your time on an issue in which I cannot actually make use of your answers.
posted by liesbyomission at 3:27 PM on August 18, 2008
I'm sorry to hear of your parents (mom's) extreme ire. I can tell you the following:
1) I went to a top 20 law school.
2) I am not now and have never practiced law.
3) While I don't begrudge my legal education, I sure as heck *hate* having to pay $1000 a month in student loans while I work at a nonprofit for very little pay, something I could have done without the law degree.
4) I had a parent threaten to disown me for my educational choices in undergrad, and I called their bluff, and it was the BEST thing that ever happened for our relationship.
5) My parents (who I know speak to both of them--the 'disowning' didn't last long), both have opinions on me 'wasting' my law degree. They have opinions on everything. I listen to what makes sense for me, and ignore any and everything that doesn't.
Therefore, my two cents based on my own experience:
Do want makes YOU happy. Being a 1L sucks hard even if you *love* the law, and if you are, at best, ambivalent, it's going to be a miserable waste of money.
Either your parents will come around, and you'll be better off for asserting your independence now, or they won't come around, and you'll be better off knowing that your parents suck donkey balls before you *really* needed them for something.
Best of luck.
posted by batcrazy at 8:32 PM on August 18, 2008
1) I went to a top 20 law school.
2) I am not now and have never practiced law.
3) While I don't begrudge my legal education, I sure as heck *hate* having to pay $1000 a month in student loans while I work at a nonprofit for very little pay, something I could have done without the law degree.
4) I had a parent threaten to disown me for my educational choices in undergrad, and I called their bluff, and it was the BEST thing that ever happened for our relationship.
5) My parents (who I know speak to both of them--the 'disowning' didn't last long), both have opinions on me 'wasting' my law degree. They have opinions on everything. I listen to what makes sense for me, and ignore any and everything that doesn't.
Therefore, my two cents based on my own experience:
Do want makes YOU happy. Being a 1L sucks hard even if you *love* the law, and if you are, at best, ambivalent, it's going to be a miserable waste of money.
Either your parents will come around, and you'll be better off for asserting your independence now, or they won't come around, and you'll be better off knowing that your parents suck donkey balls before you *really* needed them for something.
Best of luck.
posted by batcrazy at 8:32 PM on August 18, 2008
Your parents may think you can't commit or are just being scared. They've seen others do it, so why can't you?
It's not an easy 3 years and it's even worse if you dread dragging yourself out of bed every morning to do it. You need to have a passion to do the reading and to learn how to take those exams. If you lack that interest, you will not do well. If you don't do well, it will suck on many levels.
The worst case scenario is that you will be depressed and commit suicide. It's not unheard of.
posted by abdulf at 10:45 PM on September 4, 2008
It's not an easy 3 years and it's even worse if you dread dragging yourself out of bed every morning to do it. You need to have a passion to do the reading and to learn how to take those exams. If you lack that interest, you will not do well. If you don't do well, it will suck on many levels.
The worst case scenario is that you will be depressed and commit suicide. It's not unheard of.
posted by abdulf at 10:45 PM on September 4, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
I say yes: it's your life, not your family's, and going through the agony and expense of doing something as intense as law school - and, indeed, being a lawyer - for years and years and years, without being passionate about it, seems like a far worse fate than dealing with your family's self-created drama about your achievements/goals. You're obviously a smart person who can achieve whatever you set out to do, but you're as human as the rest of us and you're allowed to change your mind.
So on Monday: call your undergraduate college's career office (it's only been a few months, right?), explain what's up, and see if they've got any short-term placements for engineers. And shoot an e-mail to your old professors, research partners, lab colleagues, and fellow students, too - they might have some connections you might not expect, from non-profits to local government to companies big and small.
When you've got a few leads, talk to your family. Give them some places you're looking to go, see if they offer you their support. But realize that it may not come, perhaps ever, and that you can't let that lack of support for a change be the reason you stay in law school. Again, it is your life to lead, not anyone else's.
posted by mdonley at 1:22 AM on August 17, 2008