Replacement windows 101
July 1, 2008 4:23 AM Subscribe
With the talk of 5.00 dollar a gallon heating oil here in New England we are thinking about replacement windows. Anyone have any advise about getting new windows???
What should I know about getting replacement windows??
Do I call the window replacement company and have them install them?
Do I buy windows and have a carpenter install them?
I have a good carpenter but he is 45 bucks an hour but I trust him.
Any ball parks about what I should be spending or how to get a good deal??
We have 14 windows and one huge bay type window.
Any companies to go with or to avoid???
What should I know about getting replacement windows??
Do I call the window replacement company and have them install them?
Do I buy windows and have a carpenter install them?
I have a good carpenter but he is 45 bucks an hour but I trust him.
Any ball parks about what I should be spending or how to get a good deal??
We have 14 windows and one huge bay type window.
Any companies to go with or to avoid???
(far as home depot goes...the big box stores can have some pretty shady characters working as independent contractors. THey can also have the same company that would do it without HD getting their cut. I used to work for a garage door company that due to the market had to partner with a big box store...the Big Box mandated prices such that it was physically impossible to even break even. Just so you know that when you use a contractor *through* a HD or the like, you're helping to depress his wages, and you're helping to send independent specialty dealers out of business.)
A carpenter at 45/hr? THat's pretty good. Call him up and see what he wants to do. Tell him that you'd prefer to *buy* the windows direct, and have him put 'em in, and that way he doesn't have to worry about your wife not liking what he brings in.
posted by notsnot at 5:38 AM on July 1, 2008
A carpenter at 45/hr? THat's pretty good. Call him up and see what he wants to do. Tell him that you'd prefer to *buy* the windows direct, and have him put 'em in, and that way he doesn't have to worry about your wife not liking what he brings in.
posted by notsnot at 5:38 AM on July 1, 2008
I'd strongly urge you to get multiple estimates for this project. When we replaced our windows we talked to four contractors and the highest quote was twice the estimate of the least expensive.
I was surprised that the estimates were so far apart.
We went with the cheapest company and they did a great job with Anderson windows. No regrets after 10 more years in that house.
The process went considerably faster that I'd anticipated, too.
posted by imjustsaying at 6:08 AM on July 1, 2008
I was surprised that the estimates were so far apart.
We went with the cheapest company and they did a great job with Anderson windows. No regrets after 10 more years in that house.
The process went considerably faster that I'd anticipated, too.
posted by imjustsaying at 6:08 AM on July 1, 2008
Do I buy windows and have a carpenter install them?
Be careful here. What happens if one of the windows doesn't fit? Whose fault is it? Probably yours if you bought the windows and the carpenter might charge you extra time to deal with it.
If you can arrange for the carpenter to do all the measuring and put down in writing who is responsible for what, you might be able to find them cheaper and buy them yourself.
I have Jeld-wen / Norco windows and I love them. They're new though, not replacements.
posted by bondcliff at 6:25 AM on July 1, 2008
Be careful here. What happens if one of the windows doesn't fit? Whose fault is it? Probably yours if you bought the windows and the carpenter might charge you extra time to deal with it.
If you can arrange for the carpenter to do all the measuring and put down in writing who is responsible for what, you might be able to find them cheaper and buy them yourself.
I have Jeld-wen / Norco windows and I love them. They're new though, not replacements.
posted by bondcliff at 6:25 AM on July 1, 2008
Also don't forget that there is (or at least was) a federal tax credit for new windows, insulation and similar energy saving improvements, so save your receipts.
posted by tomwheeler at 6:48 AM on July 1, 2008
posted by tomwheeler at 6:48 AM on July 1, 2008
This is a major purchase, and a smart one. Research the efficiency of the various brands; Consumer Reports is your friend, and your library probably subscribes. Definitely get several estimates, and check their references, also check Angieslist.com. I believe the tax credit ended last year. While you're at it, check your insulation.
posted by theora55 at 7:07 AM on July 1, 2008
posted by theora55 at 7:07 AM on July 1, 2008
In many cases rehabilitating existing windows and installing storms is cheaper than purchasing new windows and the R value nears that of replacement windows. In addition, if the windows predate the 40s they may last an additional 100 years with good care, lasting far beyond the average lifespan of modern replacement windows (the non wood kind, and even new wood windows are often made with inferior wood).
If you decide to stick with replacements, consider wood and be wary of vinyl. They often have short(er) (30yrs) warranty periods and might need to be entirely replaced if any component fails. Also historicity may be compromised with vinyl windows which may be a concern.
Of course, this might not apply to your situation, just throwing it out there as devil's advocate. Good luck!
posted by lyam at 7:29 AM on July 1, 2008
If you decide to stick with replacements, consider wood and be wary of vinyl. They often have short(er) (30yrs) warranty periods and might need to be entirely replaced if any component fails. Also historicity may be compromised with vinyl windows which may be a concern.
Of course, this might not apply to your situation, just throwing it out there as devil's advocate. Good luck!
posted by lyam at 7:29 AM on July 1, 2008
Seconding that rehab may be the best way, unless you really hate your existing windows. Basically, if you have single-pane glass now, that has an R value of 1. If you replace it with a double-pane, that has an R value of 2. That means it loses half the heat that the single pane does, (but that's still a lot of heat compared to an insulated wall with an R value of 13 or more). You get the same result of R2 by adding a storm window to a single-pane window. Move up to triple-pane and you get R3, add argon/low E to the picture and it goes to R4 or R5. That's great, but it's pretty costly, too. I would consider fixing up your existing windows by making sure they are good and tight, and adding outside storms. Or perhaps even outside storms plus inside storms. You can also add insulation value to your windows with honeycomb-type shades or window quilts, as well as drapes. Do open them in the daytime during the winter if moisture is building up on the glass, or you'll end up rotting out the frames.
posted by beagle at 7:52 AM on July 1, 2008
posted by beagle at 7:52 AM on July 1, 2008
R-values are only part of the equation. Air leakage rates for new windows are much lower than with old. And keep in mind that maintaining wood windows requires you to repaint and reglaze every few years as well as swapping out the storm windows for screens when the weather warms up.
As a counterpoint to the historical/attractiveness argument, keep in mind that triple track storm windows are pretty ugly and have no historical value. If you're at all concerned about this, you'll probably want storm panels, which do not open and close like storm windows.
Also, depending on the type of heat, you might want to consider switching from heating oil to natural gas or a heat pump. If I recall correctly, replacing/rehabbing windows takes quite a long time to pay off, and you have an older heating system it may be cost effective, if you don't have to install ductwork.
posted by electroboy at 8:39 AM on July 1, 2008
As a counterpoint to the historical/attractiveness argument, keep in mind that triple track storm windows are pretty ugly and have no historical value. If you're at all concerned about this, you'll probably want storm panels, which do not open and close like storm windows.
Also, depending on the type of heat, you might want to consider switching from heating oil to natural gas or a heat pump. If I recall correctly, replacing/rehabbing windows takes quite a long time to pay off, and you have an older heating system it may be cost effective, if you don't have to install ductwork.
posted by electroboy at 8:39 AM on July 1, 2008
How old is your house? If it's at all an older place (pre 1960) I'd recommend NOT buying your own windows and going with a contractor.
We used Renewal by Andersen recently and have been very happy. It wasn't the cheapest way to go, but our place is 100+ years old and there are few perfect right angles. The last thing we wanted was to have issues and have to go through the whole thing again, so we paid a premium to be sure the installation was right and for a guarantee.
If your house is newer (and you don't think you'll have house settling issues over the next ten years) you could probably go with buying good windows and having a contractor install them.
posted by slo at 8:42 AM on July 1, 2008
We used Renewal by Andersen recently and have been very happy. It wasn't the cheapest way to go, but our place is 100+ years old and there are few perfect right angles. The last thing we wanted was to have issues and have to go through the whole thing again, so we paid a premium to be sure the installation was right and for a guarantee.
If your house is newer (and you don't think you'll have house settling issues over the next ten years) you could probably go with buying good windows and having a contractor install them.
posted by slo at 8:42 AM on July 1, 2008
We bought Harvey brand vinyl windows from a contractor (where in N.E. are you?), and they are great. Definitely get a window specialist who will measure them all and take responsibility for installation.
posted by clownpenis.fart at 8:51 AM on July 1, 2008
posted by clownpenis.fart at 8:51 AM on July 1, 2008
I'd advise against Home Depot specifically. We had a miserable time with them. The windows seem great and we're happy with them, but Home Depots subcontractors damaged our home during the install.
It was reported to the area foreman. The HD foreman tried every trick in the book, made all sorts of verbal promises to later fix the damage to our home, just to get us to sign the release saying the work was done satisfactorily and it was clear to bill us for the entire project now.
It got bounced to Home Depot's insurance and then the subcontractors insurance... we eventually had to consult an independent claims adjuster to work on our behalf... it took over a year to settle.
posted by jerseygirl at 9:34 AM on July 1, 2008
It was reported to the area foreman. The HD foreman tried every trick in the book, made all sorts of verbal promises to later fix the damage to our home, just to get us to sign the release saying the work was done satisfactorily and it was clear to bill us for the entire project now.
It got bounced to Home Depot's insurance and then the subcontractors insurance... we eventually had to consult an independent claims adjuster to work on our behalf... it took over a year to settle.
posted by jerseygirl at 9:34 AM on July 1, 2008
You might have already considered this, but you should know that if you have poor insulation in the walls or ceiling, your money might be better spent on improving those things.
I don´t know what a reasonable price is in New England, but a good carpenter who charges more is a better choice than a bad carpenter who charges less.
posted by yohko at 10:17 AM on July 1, 2008
I don´t know what a reasonable price is in New England, but a good carpenter who charges more is a better choice than a bad carpenter who charges less.
posted by yohko at 10:17 AM on July 1, 2008
We put in replacement windows on the first floor of our (125-year-old) house last fall, and it made a noticeable difference ... but we also had a HUGE deal on the windows.
Basically, my old landlord let me buy them via his builder's account, so I got them at wholesale price, and had a window specialist who does installations on the side as well pop them in for $40/window. 8 windows plus a big sliding window in our kitchen.
Our total cost was just shy of $2400; there are a lot of other things, as I have learned since then, that can be done for that money rather than new windows (although I don't regret ours at all). Insulation and air-sealing top the list of things to invest in first and foremost, with things like windows and furnace-switching falling into a distant second rank.
We're in NH, and specifically the part without natural gas, so the fuel options up here are wood, oil, pellets, or propane; we've got forced-air heat fired by oil, and I've bitten the bullet and signed a contract for $4.49/gallon oil, but will be doing a lot of air-sealing work this summer to try and offset that hideous price. I've had my rubblestone basement foam-sealed to stop the (massive) cold-air infiltration from below, and will be addressing other major gaps with lower-tech solutions next month. I spent much of the late spring and early summer contemplating a huge investment in a pellet furnace, but decided against it in the end.
Insulating your attic (I'm assuming house, here) with blown-in cellulose will help an awful lot, too, and cost under a grand. Adding cellulose to the walls is not a bad idea, either, and might in fact wind up being comparable in price to new windows. Deal with excessively leaky windows with rope caulk and/or plastic sheeting -- those mostly stop the cold air drafts IME.
Oh, and we also got Harvey windows. Quite nice!
posted by ahhgrr at 11:46 AM on July 1, 2008
Basically, my old landlord let me buy them via his builder's account, so I got them at wholesale price, and had a window specialist who does installations on the side as well pop them in for $40/window. 8 windows plus a big sliding window in our kitchen.
Our total cost was just shy of $2400; there are a lot of other things, as I have learned since then, that can be done for that money rather than new windows (although I don't regret ours at all). Insulation and air-sealing top the list of things to invest in first and foremost, with things like windows and furnace-switching falling into a distant second rank.
We're in NH, and specifically the part without natural gas, so the fuel options up here are wood, oil, pellets, or propane; we've got forced-air heat fired by oil, and I've bitten the bullet and signed a contract for $4.49/gallon oil, but will be doing a lot of air-sealing work this summer to try and offset that hideous price. I've had my rubblestone basement foam-sealed to stop the (massive) cold-air infiltration from below, and will be addressing other major gaps with lower-tech solutions next month. I spent much of the late spring and early summer contemplating a huge investment in a pellet furnace, but decided against it in the end.
Insulating your attic (I'm assuming house, here) with blown-in cellulose will help an awful lot, too, and cost under a grand. Adding cellulose to the walls is not a bad idea, either, and might in fact wind up being comparable in price to new windows. Deal with excessively leaky windows with rope caulk and/or plastic sheeting -- those mostly stop the cold air drafts IME.
Oh, and we also got Harvey windows. Quite nice!
posted by ahhgrr at 11:46 AM on July 1, 2008
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We went with home depot because we figured they would have insured contractors that would do a better job then some of the unknown ones around here.
posted by majortom1981 at 5:24 AM on July 1, 2008