Folding aces.
June 14, 2008 9:04 PM Subscribe
I'm in a long-term relationship with an girl, and things are both great and awful. She's seriously dependent, I need my alone time. She wants a farm house in the middle of nowhere, I want to be close to the city. I'm the always-connected gadget-fiend type, she thinks tech is dumb. We could probably compromise on these, but we have some relationship scars and problems in the bedroom. But, we're on the same page on most moral issues, have a ton in common, and she's beautiful. Things have been rough for a while, and I'm starting to feel like our problems and differences make this relationship detrimental to both of us. I don't want to throw away The One, though. Is it time to fold?
I've read through a bunch of break-up posts here, but none seem to hit this nail on the head. If there are any related posts I should read, please do link me.
I've been in this relationship for a few years, and I'm not sure where we go from here. Recent problems have swelled and I fear we're near a breaking point unless we take specific steps to avert a crisis. I'm not sure the crisis should be averted, though. Some basic facts:
Good: Similar lifestyles, similar morals, mostly similar interests, she's attractive. Just about everything a good relationship needs. I can see myself going the long haul with her.
Bad: (I'm going to go in to more detail about these, as I feel that these are the make-or-break issues.)
- Relationship scars: I've been deceptive a few times over the course of the relationship - never unfaithful, just untruths about serious things - and she hasn't regained trust for me. I know I screwed up and I've been good for quite a while, but when combined with other relationship problems, the healing isn't happening.
- Lack of affection: She isn't affectionate with me. At all. This is thanks to the relationship scars mentioned before. I don't blame her, but on the other hand, it really wears me down. I'm big on displays of affection, and not having that hurts.
- Bedroom problems: a lovely cocktail of performance anxiety and off-kilter sexual chemestry. Her sex drive is higher than mine; she wants it, even if we don't have a good relationship otherwise. I don't want it, because of the other problems. If we DO try anything, I usually have problems "finding/maintaining interest" thanks to the aforementioned problems.
- Fundamental differences: As we grow, I'm feeling that our long-term goals are different. She feels that the only things that matter are relationships with friends and family; I see the importance, but I'm also driven to create. I need my alone time to work on projects and things, she's very dependent. I love technology, she abhors it. My idea of success is creating successful projects and fulfilling art, her idea of success is having a 6 hour conversation.
I know that a lot of our problems are my fault, and I've done my best to fix them but I'm by no means perfect. Months and months of a strained relationship make it hard to be selfless. I'm starting to feel pretty strongly that both her and I would be better in the long term if we separated. The break-up would be messy, as most break-ups are, but that's not my #1 concern. I don't want a bout of fickleness to ruin what could be an awesome life with her. I'm just not sure how things weigh in relation to everything else. She has an activity next weekend, and I'm thinking about taking a 3-day retreat away from her to sort things out. Good/bad idea?
Help me out, hivemind. I started out with aces here, but I didn't play my hand well and the cards on the table aren't turning out in my favor. Do I push all-in, or fold before it's too late?
I've read through a bunch of break-up posts here, but none seem to hit this nail on the head. If there are any related posts I should read, please do link me.
I've been in this relationship for a few years, and I'm not sure where we go from here. Recent problems have swelled and I fear we're near a breaking point unless we take specific steps to avert a crisis. I'm not sure the crisis should be averted, though. Some basic facts:
Good: Similar lifestyles, similar morals, mostly similar interests, she's attractive. Just about everything a good relationship needs. I can see myself going the long haul with her.
Bad: (I'm going to go in to more detail about these, as I feel that these are the make-or-break issues.)
- Relationship scars: I've been deceptive a few times over the course of the relationship - never unfaithful, just untruths about serious things - and she hasn't regained trust for me. I know I screwed up and I've been good for quite a while, but when combined with other relationship problems, the healing isn't happening.
- Lack of affection: She isn't affectionate with me. At all. This is thanks to the relationship scars mentioned before. I don't blame her, but on the other hand, it really wears me down. I'm big on displays of affection, and not having that hurts.
- Bedroom problems: a lovely cocktail of performance anxiety and off-kilter sexual chemestry. Her sex drive is higher than mine; she wants it, even if we don't have a good relationship otherwise. I don't want it, because of the other problems. If we DO try anything, I usually have problems "finding/maintaining interest" thanks to the aforementioned problems.
- Fundamental differences: As we grow, I'm feeling that our long-term goals are different. She feels that the only things that matter are relationships with friends and family; I see the importance, but I'm also driven to create. I need my alone time to work on projects and things, she's very dependent. I love technology, she abhors it. My idea of success is creating successful projects and fulfilling art, her idea of success is having a 6 hour conversation.
I know that a lot of our problems are my fault, and I've done my best to fix them but I'm by no means perfect. Months and months of a strained relationship make it hard to be selfless. I'm starting to feel pretty strongly that both her and I would be better in the long term if we separated. The break-up would be messy, as most break-ups are, but that's not my #1 concern. I don't want a bout of fickleness to ruin what could be an awesome life with her. I'm just not sure how things weigh in relation to everything else. She has an activity next weekend, and I'm thinking about taking a 3-day retreat away from her to sort things out. Good/bad idea?
Help me out, hivemind. I started out with aces here, but I didn't play my hand well and the cards on the table aren't turning out in my favor. Do I push all-in, or fold before it's too late?
~~~Get Viagra
~~~Find tech that applies to things she likes and get her interested in technology, and thus probably give you more free time as well
~~~Don't ever lie to her again
posted by mhuckaba at 9:16 PM on June 14, 2008
~~~Find tech that applies to things she likes and get her interested in technology, and thus probably give you more free time as well
~~~Don't ever lie to her again
posted by mhuckaba at 9:16 PM on June 14, 2008
Shes probably smothering you because she is insecure, both that you lied to her and also that you "don't find her attractive anymore" (what I assume her perception is).
posted by mhuckaba at 9:17 PM on June 14, 2008
posted by mhuckaba at 9:17 PM on June 14, 2008
I'm starting to feel pretty strongly that both her and I would be better in the long term if we separated.
If that's what you're thinking, you're right.
The break-up would be messy,
It doesn't have to be if you approach it in the right way. She probably feels it coming too, so it should be no big surprise. The "best" breakups I've ever had, I was completely unprepared for in initiating. If you're too ready, your girlfriend might start getting suspicious with how long you've been "faking it". You stand a better chance at ending it before you invest more time.
She has an activity next weekend, and I'm thinking about taking a 3-day retreat away from her to sort things out. Good/bad idea?
Breaks tend to end in break-UPs. Don't fool yourself.
Just remember- you will get through this for the better, whether or not your relationship does.
posted by sunshinesky at 9:18 PM on June 14, 2008
If that's what you're thinking, you're right.
The break-up would be messy,
It doesn't have to be if you approach it in the right way. She probably feels it coming too, so it should be no big surprise. The "best" breakups I've ever had, I was completely unprepared for in initiating. If you're too ready, your girlfriend might start getting suspicious with how long you've been "faking it". You stand a better chance at ending it before you invest more time.
She has an activity next weekend, and I'm thinking about taking a 3-day retreat away from her to sort things out. Good/bad idea?
Breaks tend to end in break-UPs. Don't fool yourself.
Just remember- you will get through this for the better, whether or not your relationship does.
posted by sunshinesky at 9:18 PM on June 14, 2008
Also, the life shes describing would be more conducive to being able to keep you hostage, if that makes sense, than the life you're desiring to lead. You have to make her secure and trust you before you can work on the other stuff. And trust me, the sex stuff is huge.
posted by mhuckaba at 9:19 PM on June 14, 2008
posted by mhuckaba at 9:19 PM on June 14, 2008
Similar lifestyles, similar morals, mostly similar interests, she's attractive. Just about everything a good relationship needs. I can see myself going the long haul with her.
Except you don't really like her all that much and you want to get away from her. Go. You're not doing yourself or her any favors by sticking around out of guilt and a sense of duty. Frankly, you sound like this relationship makes you miserable. Best of luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 9:20 PM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Except you don't really like her all that much and you want to get away from her. Go. You're not doing yourself or her any favors by sticking around out of guilt and a sense of duty. Frankly, you sound like this relationship makes you miserable. Best of luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 9:20 PM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
To me it works like this: if you are still willing to work on issues like trust and compromise and feel like your differences can be resolved, and are worth resolving, then stick to it. If, on the other hand, you can't see an end to your conflicts in the near future and have fundamentals you are both not willing to budge on (where to live, what kind of family environment to create, etc.) then it'd be better to find someone who is more compatible.
If she wants this to work out, she's going to have to work on trusting you again. No one can take a passive role here, no matter how difficult it may be. And it's very hard to live without affection, especially from a significant other. What has she said when you brought this up, what has her argument been? "I'm going to try, I promise" with no improvements and further lack of effort? Then the relationship is stagnating, and if it's been in this state for months, I'm not sure it'd be worth salvaging.
I was with a boy I thought was my whole world, but I was constantly hurting. Crying myself to sleep, convincing myself that everything is alright and these were just "bumps in the road" (several times a week?), and pretty much unwilling to let things end because I thought I'd never find someone so wonderful - even as I was drying my eyes. Looking back on it, I'm amazed how I couldn't see that it was the wrong person to be with. It took my current boyfriend to make me realize that things could be better beyond belief. So don't let yourself become stuck in a relationship that isn't improving and hurting you instead.
Take that 3-day retreat, and think about what you really want - both from her and from yourself. Figure out what would make you happy, and what sort of relationship would be your ideal. And then, how you can work towards that with your girlfriend. But if she cannot make you happy anymore, you deserve someone who can.
posted by Bakuun at 9:29 PM on June 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
If she wants this to work out, she's going to have to work on trusting you again. No one can take a passive role here, no matter how difficult it may be. And it's very hard to live without affection, especially from a significant other. What has she said when you brought this up, what has her argument been? "I'm going to try, I promise" with no improvements and further lack of effort? Then the relationship is stagnating, and if it's been in this state for months, I'm not sure it'd be worth salvaging.
I was with a boy I thought was my whole world, but I was constantly hurting. Crying myself to sleep, convincing myself that everything is alright and these were just "bumps in the road" (several times a week?), and pretty much unwilling to let things end because I thought I'd never find someone so wonderful - even as I was drying my eyes. Looking back on it, I'm amazed how I couldn't see that it was the wrong person to be with. It took my current boyfriend to make me realize that things could be better beyond belief. So don't let yourself become stuck in a relationship that isn't improving and hurting you instead.
Take that 3-day retreat, and think about what you really want - both from her and from yourself. Figure out what would make you happy, and what sort of relationship would be your ideal. And then, how you can work towards that with your girlfriend. But if she cannot make you happy anymore, you deserve someone who can.
posted by Bakuun at 9:29 PM on June 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
You don't like that she's very dependent on you, and she thinks your hobbies are "dumb." You've deceived her in the past, and she's withholding affection to punish you for that. You need affection to feel sexual, where she's happy to have sex regardless of the emotional weather between you and how bad you might feel about it, which gives you performance anxiety.
You seem to want space, peace, and playful physical affection. You appear to be dating a woman who wants a partner she can cling to, who loves to talk out everything in minute detail for hours on end, and who enjoys a good hatefuck even when her partner's not really for it.
I don't think there's many other nebulously-defined "relationship qualities" here that would save that sort of thing in the long run. You're not going to avoid a hatefuck, get your own apartment, or dodge six-hour confessionals if you stick around without the aid of a therapist or a saint. ;)
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 9:36 PM on June 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
You seem to want space, peace, and playful physical affection. You appear to be dating a woman who wants a partner she can cling to, who loves to talk out everything in minute detail for hours on end, and who enjoys a good hatefuck even when her partner's not really for it.
I don't think there's many other nebulously-defined "relationship qualities" here that would save that sort of thing in the long run. You're not going to avoid a hatefuck, get your own apartment, or dodge six-hour confessionals if you stick around without the aid of a therapist or a saint. ;)
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 9:36 PM on June 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
This doesn't sound like the "The One" (whatever that is) at all. You don't sound like you like her much and believe me, when all is said and done, ya gotta like each other. Get out now now.
That whole "we share the same morals" thing won't get you much mileage without something else to accompany it and it doesn't sound like the two of you have it.
Break ups are messy. That's life.
.....Or what trythetilapia said.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 9:58 PM on June 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
That whole "we share the same morals" thing won't get you much mileage without something else to accompany it and it doesn't sound like the two of you have it.
Break ups are messy. That's life.
.....Or what trythetilapia said.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 9:58 PM on June 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
I think the differences between you are substantial (particularly your ideas on urban living and hobbies). If you haven't left anything important out, I'd end your romantic involvement, for the sake of both of you.
posted by phrontist at 10:19 PM on June 14, 2008
posted by phrontist at 10:19 PM on June 14, 2008
Similar lifestyles, similar morals, mostly similar interests, she's attractive. Just about everything a good relationship needs.
Well, are those good building blocks, sure. They're also things you can find with a great, great many other people out there. And they don't fix the things that are wrong with this situation. There is no "making up for" lack of trust, lack of affection, etc. It's tough when you're a few years in. The inertia takes hold, I know. But there are far better matches out there for both of you.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:24 PM on June 14, 2008
Well, are those good building blocks, sure. They're also things you can find with a great, great many other people out there. And they don't fix the things that are wrong with this situation. There is no "making up for" lack of trust, lack of affection, etc. It's tough when you're a few years in. The inertia takes hold, I know. But there are far better matches out there for both of you.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:24 PM on June 14, 2008
If I had a dollar for every person I've dated who had similar lifestyle, morals, and interests to me, and who was attractive, I'd have... I dunno, twenty bucks? And I'm not yet thirty. If I had a dollar for every relationship I've been in where I felt completely on the same page with the other person, where we got along famously and didn't fight about stupid shit, where we trusted each other unconditionally (in spite of a multi-month 8,000 mile separation), where we enjoyed some of the same things and shared some friends but also led separate lives respectfully... and had those other things... I would have one dollar.
The good ones are hard to find and a joy to be with. The rest may be nice people, but none of them are The One. As much as any relationship deserves a chance, it also deserves to be ended when you know it's run its course. This sounds like a good time to that.
posted by autojack at 10:43 PM on June 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
The good ones are hard to find and a joy to be with. The rest may be nice people, but none of them are The One. As much as any relationship deserves a chance, it also deserves to be ended when you know it's run its course. This sounds like a good time to that.
posted by autojack at 10:43 PM on June 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
- Lack of affection: She isn't affectionate with me. At all. This is thanks to the relationship scars mentioned before. I don't blame her, but on the other hand, it really wears me down. I'm big on displays of affection, and not having that hurts.
I've been in relationships where this was going on, and you're right. It wears you down, and from my experience once it starts, it doesn't usually end. If this is important to you, it could be a deal breaker all by itself, since this will continue to grate on you for a long time.
- Fundamental differences: As we grow, I'm feeling that our long-term goals are different. She feels that the only things that matter are relationships with friends and family; I see the importance, but I'm also driven to create. I need my alone time to work on projects and things, she's very dependent. I love technology, she abhors it. My idea of success is creating successful projects and fulfilling art, her idea of success is having a 6 hour conversation.
This could potentially be an even bigger issue. Once again, been there, done that. This could be a huge issue, or it might be no issue at all. How's that for clear? I say it *might* be no issue at all because people and their goals change over time. It could be that after you go down the road with this person another year or two, you may start to see her goals are more compatible with your world view than you think today. Or vise versa. That being said, what you're listing isn't really goals so much as out and out personality. She hates technology? That won't change. She doesn't want to give you space for projects? That won't change either.
Were I in your shoes, I would be thinking this may not be for me. YMMV of course.
posted by barc0001 at 11:24 PM on June 14, 2008
I've been in relationships where this was going on, and you're right. It wears you down, and from my experience once it starts, it doesn't usually end. If this is important to you, it could be a deal breaker all by itself, since this will continue to grate on you for a long time.
- Fundamental differences: As we grow, I'm feeling that our long-term goals are different. She feels that the only things that matter are relationships with friends and family; I see the importance, but I'm also driven to create. I need my alone time to work on projects and things, she's very dependent. I love technology, she abhors it. My idea of success is creating successful projects and fulfilling art, her idea of success is having a 6 hour conversation.
This could potentially be an even bigger issue. Once again, been there, done that. This could be a huge issue, or it might be no issue at all. How's that for clear? I say it *might* be no issue at all because people and their goals change over time. It could be that after you go down the road with this person another year or two, you may start to see her goals are more compatible with your world view than you think today. Or vise versa. That being said, what you're listing isn't really goals so much as out and out personality. She hates technology? That won't change. She doesn't want to give you space for projects? That won't change either.
Were I in your shoes, I would be thinking this may not be for me. YMMV of course.
posted by barc0001 at 11:24 PM on June 14, 2008
"The One" does not exist, in all likelihood. Nominally, 1/3.25 billion equates essentially to 0. That is the probability of you having found 'the one' in the half of the planet's population that is female. Zero.
(Math aside, are you kidding? Read what you wrote.)
People are not points, they are trajectories. Like the water in a stream, they change over time. Even if she were 'the one' (see above), she probably won't be in a few years.
Love is an active process. The only way that this is 'the one' is that this is the one you have chosen to love. It's kind of unilateral in that regard. If this is the woman that you want to spend your life with, go ahead and do so. You have every right to do this. The real question is what is it going to cost you and can you afford it (emotionally, not financially)? Can you put out this level of effort for another 70 (SEVENTY!) years? Is this how you want to spend your time? Do you have this much stamina?
Love is not for the faint hearted. It's really hard work. The job you are considering taking sounds extremely ambitious.
Breaking up takes some balls, too. However, part of being a full fledged grown up is doing hard stuff, regardless of how hard it might be.
I don't envy you the short term pain, but you might be better served getting more experience before settling down to a life of mistrust, bad sex, dissimilar goals, and clearly visible incompatibilities. You are not locked into a bad situation by virtue of a two year history. It's OK to move on and try something else. A better fit seems certain.
Good luck.
posted by FauxScot at 11:29 PM on June 14, 2008 [9 favorites]
(Math aside, are you kidding? Read what you wrote.)
People are not points, they are trajectories. Like the water in a stream, they change over time. Even if she were 'the one' (see above), she probably won't be in a few years.
Love is an active process. The only way that this is 'the one' is that this is the one you have chosen to love. It's kind of unilateral in that regard. If this is the woman that you want to spend your life with, go ahead and do so. You have every right to do this. The real question is what is it going to cost you and can you afford it (emotionally, not financially)? Can you put out this level of effort for another 70 (SEVENTY!) years? Is this how you want to spend your time? Do you have this much stamina?
Love is not for the faint hearted. It's really hard work. The job you are considering taking sounds extremely ambitious.
Breaking up takes some balls, too. However, part of being a full fledged grown up is doing hard stuff, regardless of how hard it might be.
I don't envy you the short term pain, but you might be better served getting more experience before settling down to a life of mistrust, bad sex, dissimilar goals, and clearly visible incompatibilities. You are not locked into a bad situation by virtue of a two year history. It's OK to move on and try something else. A better fit seems certain.
Good luck.
posted by FauxScot at 11:29 PM on June 14, 2008 [9 favorites]
As we grow, I'm feeling that our long-term goals are different.
There's your answer.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:41 PM on June 14, 2008
There's your answer.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:41 PM on June 14, 2008
Tonight is my 23rd wedding anniversary. The One and I have been amazingly incompatible for every single damn minute of every single damn day of every single one of those 23 years.
I hate to cook. She loves to cook. I like to sit and think. She likes to talk and socialize. I make a bunch of money. She keeps us out of the poorhouse. I speak English. She speaks some kind of confounding northern Michigan yooper dialect, eh? I'm kinda funny looking. She's beautiful.
So anyway, compatibility has been a major issue for almost exactly half my life, but there's never been any doubt that The One was The One, from the moment she first annoyed the living shit out of me.
You, however, seem to have doubts.
Call this a data point.
posted by stubby phillips at 11:42 PM on June 14, 2008 [24 favorites]
I hate to cook. She loves to cook. I like to sit and think. She likes to talk and socialize. I make a bunch of money. She keeps us out of the poorhouse. I speak English. She speaks some kind of confounding northern Michigan yooper dialect, eh? I'm kinda funny looking. She's beautiful.
So anyway, compatibility has been a major issue for almost exactly half my life, but there's never been any doubt that The One was The One, from the moment she first annoyed the living shit out of me.
You, however, seem to have doubts.
Call this a data point.
posted by stubby phillips at 11:42 PM on June 14, 2008 [24 favorites]
Similar lifestyles, similar morals, mostly similar interests, she's attractive. Just about everything a good relationship needs. I can see myself going the long haul with her.
What you describe is only the basic starting point for a relationship. Those factors will not, in and of themselves, make for the long haul.
The long haul in a relationship requires that you actively like your partner as much as you love them. In fact, there's a way in which active like is more important for the day-to-day stuff than romantic love. You need to like someone enough that you can genuinely enjoy a mundane conversation with them while getting dinner ready. You like them enough that you each can go off to separate rooms to do your own thing for a few hours without feeling hurt or angry or rejected. You like each other enough that you are each giving and receiving the level of affection you're comfortable with. You like them enough that you know, reflexively, that they're pretty much your favorite person in the world, even when you're angry with each other and even despite all the ups and downs you've been through.
"The One" is a misnomer. It doesn't describe a person -- it describes a relationship, in which you are on their team, and they're on yours, and you both wouldn't have it any other way.
posted by scody at 11:58 PM on June 14, 2008 [12 favorites]
What you describe is only the basic starting point for a relationship. Those factors will not, in and of themselves, make for the long haul.
The long haul in a relationship requires that you actively like your partner as much as you love them. In fact, there's a way in which active like is more important for the day-to-day stuff than romantic love. You need to like someone enough that you can genuinely enjoy a mundane conversation with them while getting dinner ready. You like them enough that you each can go off to separate rooms to do your own thing for a few hours without feeling hurt or angry or rejected. You like each other enough that you are each giving and receiving the level of affection you're comfortable with. You like them enough that you know, reflexively, that they're pretty much your favorite person in the world, even when you're angry with each other and even despite all the ups and downs you've been through.
"The One" is a misnomer. It doesn't describe a person -- it describes a relationship, in which you are on their team, and they're on yours, and you both wouldn't have it any other way.
posted by scody at 11:58 PM on June 14, 2008 [12 favorites]
I can see myself going the long haul with her.
In my experience, for which I have been sometimes called to task around here, the fact you're able to ask that question means that no, this isn't the right person for you. When you know, you'll know.
Scody's examples are great, too. A relationship you're always worrying about is doomed, no matter what. It's when you find the one you're not worried about that you have it made.
I also found the "similar morals" thing a bit weird, in that I feel like that's code for something, but I'm not sure what.
posted by rokusan at 12:50 AM on June 15, 2008
In my experience, for which I have been sometimes called to task around here, the fact you're able to ask that question means that no, this isn't the right person for you. When you know, you'll know.
Scody's examples are great, too. A relationship you're always worrying about is doomed, no matter what. It's when you find the one you're not worried about that you have it made.
I also found the "similar morals" thing a bit weird, in that I feel like that's code for something, but I'm not sure what.
posted by rokusan at 12:50 AM on June 15, 2008
As the word 'love' appears nowhere in your post, and given the doubts you've expressed about your compatibility, I'd say trust your gut on this. It's telling you that this relationship isn't working and hasn't been for some time.
posted by essexjan at 4:01 AM on June 15, 2008
posted by essexjan at 4:01 AM on June 15, 2008
I've been deceptive a few times over the course of the relationship - never unfaithful, just untruths about serious things
This stands out to me as though written in letters twenty feet tall. You're not telling us what these "serious things" are -- not even a hint -- probably because if we knew, we would give you different advice. Some of us might say "if I were her, I wouldn't be snuggling you either, bub!" The vaguest bit in the story is nearly always the bit with the truth hidden in it.
It's clear you want to break up. Do both of you a favor and get it over with, so both of you can move on.
posted by tomboko at 5:26 AM on June 15, 2008
This stands out to me as though written in letters twenty feet tall. You're not telling us what these "serious things" are -- not even a hint -- probably because if we knew, we would give you different advice. Some of us might say "if I were her, I wouldn't be snuggling you either, bub!" The vaguest bit in the story is nearly always the bit with the truth hidden in it.
It's clear you want to break up. Do both of you a favor and get it over with, so both of you can move on.
posted by tomboko at 5:26 AM on June 15, 2008
Your emphasis on how "attractive" and "beautiful" she is (combined with the fact that you don't describe her to us with much seeming affection otherwise....I agree with people who have said you don't sound like you like her very much) makes me think the only thing holding you is that you're afraid you'll not find someone as physically attractive as her again, since the only other thing you've got going with her is the vaguely defined, "common morals and lifestyle". But do you really have any sort of "lifestyle" in common, if she wants to live on a farm and you think she's clingy and she thinks YOUR interests and values (tech, career) are "dumb"?
posted by availablelight at 6:21 AM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by availablelight at 6:21 AM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
I just want to reiterate that relationships should not be this hard. Ever. Why keep yourself in such drama when you can spend the time finding someone who makes you feel good and you make feel good?
You have the internets permission to move on.
posted by qwip at 6:22 AM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
You have the internets permission to move on.
posted by qwip at 6:22 AM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
I have a slightly different tack. Right now you're feeling smothered by the life you're anticipating and it's making you uncomfortable. You feel bad about the 'deception', whatever that may be, and you're feeling crappy about feeling bad. You can decide to suck it up and see it through, but you don't sound like that's what you want to do.
It sounds like the only way you're going to know if you want this relationship is when you don't have it anymore. Seriously. Only when you've broken up are you going to get the perspective that will tell you whether or not you let go of the 'one'. And by then, it might be too late for this 'one' and you'll just have to move on. But you will absolutely have learned that what you thought was a deal breaker either was or wasn't all that important in the end, and any future relationships will benefit hugely from your self-awareness.
So talk about it now! Today! You will have relieved some of the pressure you've built up by going around this in your head, and the weekend apart will give you both space to let it sink in. It's going to be tough, but it sounds like something's got to give. Start the process. See how it feels.
posted by freya_lamb at 6:27 AM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
It sounds like the only way you're going to know if you want this relationship is when you don't have it anymore. Seriously. Only when you've broken up are you going to get the perspective that will tell you whether or not you let go of the 'one'. And by then, it might be too late for this 'one' and you'll just have to move on. But you will absolutely have learned that what you thought was a deal breaker either was or wasn't all that important in the end, and any future relationships will benefit hugely from your self-awareness.
So talk about it now! Today! You will have relieved some of the pressure you've built up by going around this in your head, and the weekend apart will give you both space to let it sink in. It's going to be tough, but it sounds like something's got to give. Start the process. See how it feels.
posted by freya_lamb at 6:27 AM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm with Scody and others who have emphasized "like." And that it can sometimes be hard work to maintain a relationship, so being unwilling to do that hard work is a bad sign, but at the same time if it is hard work all the time that isn't a very good relationship. A relationship should make your life better, on balance, even if it isn't puppies and rainbows every second.
You say thing like "the healing isn't happening" which are ways of making it sound like you are uninvolved, and that the question of things getting better is separate from you. In reality, it kind of comes down to your actions, not your thoughts and not your intentions. And I'm emphasizing your actions because you can't control her, and your affection shouldn't (in the short term) be conditional on her immediate actions.
If you want to change the pattern, you do that. It's not the big gestures that are needed -- it's the small things, the little things that create a relationship (or, as you have found, that tear it apart when they don't happen).
And yes, if you aren't willing to man up and treat her well in the small daily interactions, then you should move on and let her find someone good for her (and vice versa).
I'm emphasizing the little problems more than the big problems because there will always be big problems in a relationship -- if it isn't that you want more space it's that there are money worries, or if not that then questions about kids, or whatever. Big problems always happen. But if you have the little stuff solid -- the being nice to each other and making each other stronger -- then the big problems become something that create more intimacy (because you have to argue and talk and solve them together) rather than something that tears you apart.
It's the difference between saying "I need more space so fuck off so I can be alone and do my thing that I won't tell you about" and closing her out of your life, versus "I need more space to do X, and let me tell you about what I am hoping to achieve, and I will invite you in and value your opinion when I am finished."
Lastly, the sex thing is really huge. Having sex (when it is at least ok sex, if not fabulous sex) creates good feelings that last, and give a foundation for and a counterpoint to the arguing. If you are having erectile issues, talk to a doctor, maybe a pill will help, or something else. And even if you aren't getting it up, why not rock her world every night or two? Like the above, if you aren't willing to do the minimal things (like lick her, or read her a story while she uses a vibrator, or whatever), then you aren't going to a real contender for the "minimally ok boyfriend of the year" award, and that's not great.
What am I saying? I'm saying that you are focusing on "are we compatible" when in fact compatibility is composed of small daily choices and actions. You are looking at the big picture as an excuse to not do the right thing in the small picture, which actually matters a lot more. Breaking up may be the right thing to do, and is almost certainly the right thing to do if you don't want to start treating her well in all the small ways that matter. And finally, remember that her bad behavior (of which there is no doubt plenty) is never an excuse for your bad behavior -- you can only change a dynamic if you indeed genuinely change that dynamic. Tit for tat just gets you the same old shit.
posted by Forktine at 6:42 AM on June 15, 2008 [9 favorites]
You say thing like "the healing isn't happening" which are ways of making it sound like you are uninvolved, and that the question of things getting better is separate from you. In reality, it kind of comes down to your actions, not your thoughts and not your intentions. And I'm emphasizing your actions because you can't control her, and your affection shouldn't (in the short term) be conditional on her immediate actions.
If you want to change the pattern, you do that. It's not the big gestures that are needed -- it's the small things, the little things that create a relationship (or, as you have found, that tear it apart when they don't happen).
And yes, if you aren't willing to man up and treat her well in the small daily interactions, then you should move on and let her find someone good for her (and vice versa).
I'm emphasizing the little problems more than the big problems because there will always be big problems in a relationship -- if it isn't that you want more space it's that there are money worries, or if not that then questions about kids, or whatever. Big problems always happen. But if you have the little stuff solid -- the being nice to each other and making each other stronger -- then the big problems become something that create more intimacy (because you have to argue and talk and solve them together) rather than something that tears you apart.
It's the difference between saying "I need more space so fuck off so I can be alone and do my thing that I won't tell you about" and closing her out of your life, versus "I need more space to do X, and let me tell you about what I am hoping to achieve, and I will invite you in and value your opinion when I am finished."
Lastly, the sex thing is really huge. Having sex (when it is at least ok sex, if not fabulous sex) creates good feelings that last, and give a foundation for and a counterpoint to the arguing. If you are having erectile issues, talk to a doctor, maybe a pill will help, or something else. And even if you aren't getting it up, why not rock her world every night or two? Like the above, if you aren't willing to do the minimal things (like lick her, or read her a story while she uses a vibrator, or whatever), then you aren't going to a real contender for the "minimally ok boyfriend of the year" award, and that's not great.
What am I saying? I'm saying that you are focusing on "are we compatible" when in fact compatibility is composed of small daily choices and actions. You are looking at the big picture as an excuse to not do the right thing in the small picture, which actually matters a lot more. Breaking up may be the right thing to do, and is almost certainly the right thing to do if you don't want to start treating her well in all the small ways that matter. And finally, remember that her bad behavior (of which there is no doubt plenty) is never an excuse for your bad behavior -- you can only change a dynamic if you indeed genuinely change that dynamic. Tit for tat just gets you the same old shit.
posted by Forktine at 6:42 AM on June 15, 2008 [9 favorites]
Thumbs down. Sounds to me like you've resolved to end it and are maybe just wanting a sounding board to confirm. It sounds like you already realize the end and are just hoping something swoops in at the last minute to salvage it (because you are similar and she's good looking and what if what if what if). She doesn't sound like The (or "a") One. It sucks to cut losses, but the sooner you do, the sooner you can get on a path towards a better relationship.
I don't get how she can be dependent and deliberately non-affectionate simultaneously. You'd think she'd want to shun you rather than smother you. But I guess wanting to have sex while she remains pissed at and nontrusting of you pretty much demonstrates that. It's hard for me to reconcile the two.
Maybe a useful question would be to ask yourself whether this relationship would be looking good if you hadn't screwed up with the deceptions. You mention other relationship problems, but what if the specific deception incidents had never happened? Because when I hear you talk about growing apart and heading in different directions, that sounds like something more fundamental.
It would be good to figure out how much of this is really tied to your deception episodes and any resentment you may have that she's not fully forgiving you vs. how much of your thoughts and feelings are independent of that aspect of the problem package, but I believe it's time for The Talk. You need to tell her what you're telling us.
I think a healthy way to approach it would be to start by asking her how she feels about these things and, depending on what she says, use that as context to introduce the points you've told us. Ask her specifically about her thoughts and feelings about the deceptions and her healing from them and forgiving you and trusting you. If she's not there yet, does she think she can get there? You can prod her if needed with your observations about how she acts and (presumably) feels if she tries to play it off or deflect. Then ask her what she thinks and feels about your long term prospects/compatibility together. What has she been thinking on that front? Maybe you'll learn some useful stuff there. But either way you can then introduce your own thoughts and feelings:
-you're having doubts about your future together
-you know you screwed up and that it was wrong and it's your fault (the deception part)
-you know and see how it wounded her
-but you've stopped, and have done everything you know to make it up to her
-but you feel like the two of you aren't healing from it
-the sex. Compare notes and verify that she's feeling what you think she's feeling and make sure she knows what you're feeling about it.
-and aside from that, while you feel you all have many good things in common, you are also questioning whether you two are growing in compatible directions. This is where it'll be toughest to be honest and thorough because it gets down to who she is as a person and whether you want that. On some level in her head it will be a judgement of her value as a person, not whether you all are compatible.
-and, given all that, what does she think?
-You're not sure what you want to do but have been thinking a lot about it. What does she want to do? (this is not leaving the decision in her hands, but just giving an opportunity for some possible mutual decision making)
Good luck, man.
posted by Askr at 7:04 AM on June 15, 2008
I don't get how she can be dependent and deliberately non-affectionate simultaneously. You'd think she'd want to shun you rather than smother you. But I guess wanting to have sex while she remains pissed at and nontrusting of you pretty much demonstrates that. It's hard for me to reconcile the two.
Maybe a useful question would be to ask yourself whether this relationship would be looking good if you hadn't screwed up with the deceptions. You mention other relationship problems, but what if the specific deception incidents had never happened? Because when I hear you talk about growing apart and heading in different directions, that sounds like something more fundamental.
It would be good to figure out how much of this is really tied to your deception episodes and any resentment you may have that she's not fully forgiving you vs. how much of your thoughts and feelings are independent of that aspect of the problem package, but I believe it's time for The Talk. You need to tell her what you're telling us.
I think a healthy way to approach it would be to start by asking her how she feels about these things and, depending on what she says, use that as context to introduce the points you've told us. Ask her specifically about her thoughts and feelings about the deceptions and her healing from them and forgiving you and trusting you. If she's not there yet, does she think she can get there? You can prod her if needed with your observations about how she acts and (presumably) feels if she tries to play it off or deflect. Then ask her what she thinks and feels about your long term prospects/compatibility together. What has she been thinking on that front? Maybe you'll learn some useful stuff there. But either way you can then introduce your own thoughts and feelings:
-you're having doubts about your future together
-you know you screwed up and that it was wrong and it's your fault (the deception part)
-you know and see how it wounded her
-but you've stopped, and have done everything you know to make it up to her
-but you feel like the two of you aren't healing from it
-the sex. Compare notes and verify that she's feeling what you think she's feeling and make sure she knows what you're feeling about it.
-and aside from that, while you feel you all have many good things in common, you are also questioning whether you two are growing in compatible directions. This is where it'll be toughest to be honest and thorough because it gets down to who she is as a person and whether you want that. On some level in her head it will be a judgement of her value as a person, not whether you all are compatible.
-and, given all that, what does she think?
-You're not sure what you want to do but have been thinking a lot about it. What does she want to do? (this is not leaving the decision in her hands, but just giving an opportunity for some possible mutual decision making)
Good luck, man.
posted by Askr at 7:04 AM on June 15, 2008
What 23skidoo said, because if "similar lifestyles, similar morals, mostly similar interests, she's attractive" were sufficient (and I doubt they're even necessary) then I'd have met The One through OKcupid or something by now. I don't think these things are "aces" so much as "conveniences" that might allow a loving relationship to run smoother, rather than the actual stuff loving relationships are made out of.
posted by so_necessary at 11:03 AM on June 15, 2008
posted by so_necessary at 11:03 AM on June 15, 2008
It sounds to me like you're not really a good fit for each other. Pretty much what it looks like the last several responses are saying. Just to break this down:
Good: Similar lifestyles, similar morals, mostly similar interests, she's attractive.
I can't figure out how your lifestyles and interests are similar. It sounds like she wants to live in a completely place than you want to, doesn't like things that are a big part of your life and vice versa, doesn't have the similar goals... I can only assume that you have some smaller things in common. However, if you don't have those important things in common, what does it matter?
So: similar morals, she's attractive.
That's... really not much. You can easily find someone with similar morals unless your beliefs are really uncommon, which seems unlikely. Among those people who share your morals, plenty are probably attractive. It sounds like you're just settling for an unhappy relationship based on things you could easily get elsewhere, to be honest. I disagree that you have "Just about everything a good relationship needs." It sounds like you have barely any of it, unless you left some very important information out of your question.
I agree with so_necessary; if that's all it took, no one would have much trouble meeting "The One."
posted by Nattie at 12:26 PM on June 15, 2008
Good: Similar lifestyles, similar morals, mostly similar interests, she's attractive.
I can't figure out how your lifestyles and interests are similar. It sounds like she wants to live in a completely place than you want to, doesn't like things that are a big part of your life and vice versa, doesn't have the similar goals... I can only assume that you have some smaller things in common. However, if you don't have those important things in common, what does it matter?
So: similar morals, she's attractive.
That's... really not much. You can easily find someone with similar morals unless your beliefs are really uncommon, which seems unlikely. Among those people who share your morals, plenty are probably attractive. It sounds like you're just settling for an unhappy relationship based on things you could easily get elsewhere, to be honest. I disagree that you have "Just about everything a good relationship needs." It sounds like you have barely any of it, unless you left some very important information out of your question.
I agree with so_necessary; if that's all it took, no one would have much trouble meeting "The One."
posted by Nattie at 12:26 PM on June 15, 2008
"similar lifestyles, similar morals, mostly similar interests, she's attractive" were sufficient (and I doubt they're even necessary) then I'd have met The One through OKcupid or something by now.
To be fair, I met The One through OKCupid.
posted by Deathalicious at 7:01 AM on June 16, 2008
To be fair, I met The One through OKCupid.
posted by Deathalicious at 7:01 AM on June 16, 2008
I went through the same thing not so long ago....check out my question...my relationship was very similar to yours... from the "Sex is not sooo great" part to the the "Ugh the deception". and to the wow she is sooo freaking attractive share the same morals yada yada...go to my profile and check out my first question...my advice (as much as it hurts me to say it) is to let her go...both you and I will be ok.
posted by The1andonly at 7:09 AM on June 16, 2008
posted by The1andonly at 7:09 AM on June 16, 2008
I've repeated this bit of wisdom here on MeFi before:
When you can imagine it over, it's over.
posted by Tubes at 8:51 AM on June 16, 2008
When you can imagine it over, it's over.
posted by Tubes at 8:51 AM on June 16, 2008
Do you already live together ? If you don't, then I imagine moving in together eventually (if the relationship continues and grows) would escalate a lot of the problems. Just a thought.
If you already live together, just imagine if you can keep being with her and be happy for ever and ever. If not, then might as well break it off now instead of being in a relationship that you know you'll eventually want to end.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 1:40 PM on June 19, 2008
If you already live together, just imagine if you can keep being with her and be happy for ever and ever. If not, then might as well break it off now instead of being in a relationship that you know you'll eventually want to end.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 1:40 PM on June 19, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
Excellent decision.
And this relationship just dosen't sound worth working on the next however many decades, but hey, I could be wrong.
The one thing, I don't see how a relationship not working out is your (or her) 'fault'.
Most relationships don't work out you know, no reason to not be civil, honest and respectful about ending them.
But yeah, a brief hiatus is in order here for sure.
posted by dawson at 9:14 PM on June 14, 2008