Are we being scammed out of 500 bucks and an apartment?
May 20, 2008 12:47 PM   Subscribe

Question about a possible advance deposit rental scam, specifically: am I being scammed? (MN)

My wife and I found a unit advertised on Craigslist and viewed the property. The property was occupied when shown (the current occupant was not present). The current occupant has supposedly lived in the property for a number of years, and is moving out at the end of her lease (6/30/08) because she is buying a house. The property was advertised as being available on 7/1, which is the day after the expiration of our current lease.

We decided it would be a good fit and asked what would be necessary to rent the property. The landlord indicated that it was a standard first month's rent + 1 month's rent security deposit, and that if we intended to move in we could give him a $500 deposit to secure the unit, as well as $50 for application processing.

While we were initially hesitant to hand over the deposit, the landlord indicated that we could apply without a deposit, but that if he received a deposit in the meantime he'd have to drop our applications. We decided to go ahead and pay the deposit, which we did last Tuesday, and received a receipt for payment thereof signed by the landlord. We were told that we'd be able to sign a lease as soon as we've been approved.

When I spoke to the landlord last Thursday, he indicated that "everything looks good" and we'd be able to get a lease signed early in the week. When I called him today to schedule the lease signing, he indicated that there was a potential problem- the closing of the current occupant's house had been delayed by a month, and indicated that she'd like to stay another month while the closing situation was re-arranged. The landlord asked us if we'd be able to delay moving in for a month, which I indicated was completely beyond the realm of possibility. The conversation ended when he indicated that he will be contacting the current renter this evening when she returns from work to discuss her options, said that there was a possibility that he would have to evict her if she refused to leave, etc. etc.

At this point, our concerns over the legitimacy of the situation are looming quite menacingly. We're quite concerned that we're going to stop hearing from the guy, or be told that we can't have the apartment on 7/1 as advertised but also can't get our money back, etc. At this point we'd really just like to sign the lease as we like the apartment and the location, but we have some very real worries about whether or not this is legitimate and what's going to happen this week. On the phone I indicated to the landlord that we wanted to have a lease signed or a check in our hands by Friday, which he was somewhat non-committal about- he simply indicated that he was going to contact the current occupant about her options and get back to us.

After our conversation I sent him an e-mail specifically detailing our interactions and indicating in writing that if we don't have either a signed lease with a 7/1 move-in date or a check for $550 by Friday at 2:00PM, we're going to contact the local police department and file a claim for the money in conciliation court.

So what else should we be doing at this point? If this turns out to be a shady deal, what real recourse do we have, or are we going to be learning an expensive lesson in the near future?

Apologies for length, clarifications provided upon request
posted by baphomet to Law & Government (12 answers total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: closed at poster's request -- mathowie

 
... I'm really glad you posted this because I think I might be in a similar situation. It won't be much help to you, but in case there's any connection, here's the story.

My fiance and I are going to have to move to the LA area this summer because he has a 10 week job with NASA. We responded to a Craigslist ad that fit the dates perfectly. The deal is $1,000/month and then a $500 security deposit. We're subletting from a PhD student (although after reading this, I have to wonder). So great, we work all that out.

Then yesterday she suddenly wants the $500 in advance to show we're committed to getting the apartment. She also needs $20 so the apartment manager can do a credit check. The latter sounds fine, but we're not at all cool with the former. My fiance e-mails her back and says that usually deposits are due when you move in, and would she be okay taking a post-dated check for the move-in date? That way, she could see we're serious -- although that this is necessary is ridiculous -- but we won't be screwed out of our money.

Well, this morning we got an e-mail back from her saying she understands if we don't want to pay the deposit ahead of time, but since we can't decide when we want to move in (this is a complete lie) then she should be able to sublet the apartment to whoever decides fastest. She's basically holding the threat of leasing the apartment to someone else over us in order to get the deposit early, and she didn't respond at all to whether or not a post-dated check would be okay.

My fiance responded saying that we made it clear that we were serious about the apartment and we all agreed on it, we all agreed on the move-in date completely, and that she should not back out of the agreement or hold the threat of subleasing it to someone else over us. He pointed out that she did not respond to the post-dated check idea and to please say if that would work.

I thought she was just scatterbrained but now I'm concerned it's just someone trying to scam us. I had remarked to my fiance that you'd think a PhD student would have decent reading comprehension, but if there isn't an apartment to begin with that would explain why she doesn't seem to keep any details straight. Also, the e-mail where she said she claimed we didn't know what date we wanted to move in seemed almost like an excuse not to lease it to us after she found out we won't pay the deposit ahead of time.

I could just be paranoid now that I've read this, but the whole thing had started to feel weird the past couple days.
posted by Nattie at 1:03 PM on May 20, 2008


I think the bit with the police was going too far. I think you should go ahead and find another place because you've already started off your relationship with this landlord on a very aggressive note and you'll probably never be able to salvage a decent, trusting relationship with him after threatening him this way.

This is more than six weeks away -- I think you should have given him a few days to get in touch with the current tenant. The situation would have been in your favour, because she had already given notice -- the onus was on her to find another place to live for that month.
posted by loiseau at 1:09 PM on May 20, 2008 [4 favorites]


To be honest, it doesn't sound like a scam - at least given my experience with home buying and getting bait and switched on apartments because the landlord wants to be nice to the current tenant (and likely has to be given the renters rights in the state).

If it were a scam, it would be a bad deal for the scammer, given that you paid by check and have something in writing, as well as an email chain.
posted by Gucky at 1:12 PM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]


I just did a Google search for craigslist scam apartment $500... These are all different people but apparently scamming apartment hunters for $500 happens.

http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=6973316
http://www.ktuu.com/global/story.asp?s=8156787

I don't know what your (our?) recourse is if it turns out to be a scam. But yes, it might be. :-/
posted by Nattie at 1:12 PM on May 20, 2008


More links, this time using craigslist scam apartment "security deposit"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/02/11/2008-02-11_craigslist_scams_targeting_renters_despe-2.html

Unfortunately, this sounds similar to the situation I'm in, I dunno about you. But the one we were looking at is furnished and such.

This is similar, but a little different:
http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2007/12/03/watch-out-for-craigslist-scams
posted by Nattie at 1:18 PM on May 20, 2008


salvage a decent, trusting relationship with him after threatening him this way.

Odd. he's a landlord, it's a business relationship, you don't have to spoon with him at night or anything.

Probably a dumb question, but has the check actually been cashed by him yet? two reasons:

1) if it hasn't, you can put a stop on it.
2) if it has, you should be able to get the check from the bank with his signature on it. This should make a lawsuit, if necessary, easier. And if it's deposited to some weird Cayman islands holding company, you definitely know something is up.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:31 PM on May 20, 2008 [3 favorites]


Incomplete answer: the landlord's saying "he might have to evict the tenant" was hardly constructive, since an eviction proceeding might take months if not years. He either doesn't know his business or talks without caring what he says. Best of luck.
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:44 PM on May 20, 2008


I'm with drjimmy11 about the whole "business relationship" thing, also. You gave the guy $500 and he's not being upfront about whether you'll get it back, and under what conditions you might get it back. Making clear that you're willing to take legal action is just looking out for yourself. If he's legit, I doubt he's going to cry himself to sleep over it.
posted by Nattie at 1:50 PM on May 20, 2008


Response by poster: The check was cashed the day after I presented it.

loiseau, I appreciate your concern and agree that that part of the e-mail may have been a bit hasty, but please understand that when you've got $500 hanging in the air I feel like you've got to be assertive and make yourself completely and entirely clear, which is exactly what I did. I told the landlord what we considered to be acceptable solutions, a reasonable deadline for the situation, and what course of action we would take if either solution is not resolved. It may be "6 weeks away", but how long exactly do you think we should let $500 float around for? We can't really look for another place while this is unresolved, and we need to get our living arrangements squared up- that's the source of my sense of urgency.
posted by baphomet at 1:51 PM on May 20, 2008


they're not trying to scam you. i had this exact situation happen to me 8 years ago in a college town... i finally got into the apartment a month and a half after my lease was supposed to start (i obviously didn't pay for the time i was not occupying it).

first time home buyers tend to be optimistic about their move-out dates and try to save a month's worth of rent. and from the landlord's standpoint, the work going into eviction is pointless since by the time it goes through the person will be moved out anyway...

while it's not a scam, i'd look elsewhere.
posted by noloveforned at 2:09 PM on May 20, 2008


I would not have given a landlord any significant amount of money without a signed lease, but that is just me. It is one thing to give $50 for a credit check (although that is high and it probably only cost $20 or $25), but giving him $500 on a verbal agreement that he is going to rent to you subject to the credit check is a bad idea. So you should probably avoid doing that in the future. Anyone who is so eager to get $500 from someone to "hold" an apartment that doesn't need to be occupied for six weeks sounds questionable anyone.

That said, I don't think that this is a scam. If you want to be sure, go talk to the tenant. But this sort of thing is very common, and it sounds reasonable. I would wait until Friday, because the amount of money is relatively low and because you still have six weeks to find a place to live if you need to.

Good luck.
posted by iknowizbirfmark at 2:15 PM on May 20, 2008


This may be a scam but at this point, based on your description, nothing unreasonable or scammy has taken place.

The current tenant has asked for an extension to their current lease, the landlord has asked you if thats ok/possible, you said no, he said he'll call the tenant when she gets back from work.

I certainly don't see anything that warrants a threatening email, you haven't even given him time to call the current tenant. Theres been no indication that if he can't work something out with the current tenant he's going to keep your money.

He sounds like he's trying to be a reasonable guy, buying a house is stressful enough without the prospect of being homeless for a month.
posted by missmagenta at 2:44 PM on May 20, 2008


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