I want to learn to soar in Phoenix!
May 10, 2008 8:46 AM Subscribe
So I want to learn to fly sailplanes. Any advice, recommendations for soaring instruction in driving range of Phoenix, AZ?
Google finds me a bunch of sailports and organizations in the area, but I'd rather get some opinions before I give anyone my money. In terms of my experience level and what I'm looking for -- never soared before, but I grew up around private aviation. I'd like to get my soaring rating both because the skillset and challenge involved seem bloody awesome, and because I've heard that it instills discipline that will be useful if/when I have the time and money to pursue a powered rating. With that in mind, can anyone recommend a training organization? A specific instructor would be great, too.
Google finds me a bunch of sailports and organizations in the area, but I'd rather get some opinions before I give anyone my money. In terms of my experience level and what I'm looking for -- never soared before, but I grew up around private aviation. I'd like to get my soaring rating both because the skillset and challenge involved seem bloody awesome, and because I've heard that it instills discipline that will be useful if/when I have the time and money to pursue a powered rating. With that in mind, can anyone recommend a training organization? A specific instructor would be great, too.
That's for models, which I guess you weren't asking about, but the same principles apply.
posted by ctmf at 11:54 AM on May 10, 2008
posted by ctmf at 11:54 AM on May 10, 2008
Can't help you with particular recommendations for Phoenix. But I will suggest you visit as many sail plane schools, and as many powered pilot training facilities as you can, and talk to instructors and pilots as much as you can, before settling on a plan. Sail plane training is generally a safe endeavor, if only because the nature of a sail plane is that it is a vehicle with low wing loading and favorable stall and recovery characteristics. You take off slow, you land slow, and if you avoid weather and use common sense, they are not hard machines to fly.
But neither are powered planes, although there are a few more controls to manage, and additional tasks to be completed in high workload phases of flight, like takeoff and landing. But you also have the advantage of an engine to pull you out of a missed approach. And shooting touch and go landings is a time honored way of getting in a lot of practice in the most dangerous flight phases, that is hard to replicate in sail plane training. Weather is weather in light aircraft of any kind, but your conditions of safe operation as a powered pilot are probably enough greater than acceptable sail plane weather conditions, depending on prevailing conditions in your area, that you may get appreciably more flight days in powered planes than in sail planes, over the course of any given calendar period.
Costs for a private sailplane license, are going to run $5,000 to $7,000 for most people. Cost for an LSA or Sport pilot license is about the same, or maybe a little higher with recent increases in fuel costs. A regular private pilot license is going to run a few thousand more than that, for instrument training and night flight training, if you stick to Cessna 152 type aircraft, and don't need a lot of extra hours. If you eventually want both ratings, I think that you'll find you get there in slight fewer total training hours, by getting your powered rating first.
But it may all come down to the people you meet, and the things you learn from them. Sail plane folk can be evangelistic, and it does take hours to wipe the grin off your face, the first time you manage to silently slip up behind a soaring hawk in a sail plane. But don't rush your investigation. Talk to both camps, visit as many flight centers and sail plane bases as you possibly can, and think things through, on the basis of what you learn.
posted by paulsc at 12:58 PM on May 10, 2008
But neither are powered planes, although there are a few more controls to manage, and additional tasks to be completed in high workload phases of flight, like takeoff and landing. But you also have the advantage of an engine to pull you out of a missed approach. And shooting touch and go landings is a time honored way of getting in a lot of practice in the most dangerous flight phases, that is hard to replicate in sail plane training. Weather is weather in light aircraft of any kind, but your conditions of safe operation as a powered pilot are probably enough greater than acceptable sail plane weather conditions, depending on prevailing conditions in your area, that you may get appreciably more flight days in powered planes than in sail planes, over the course of any given calendar period.
Costs for a private sailplane license, are going to run $5,000 to $7,000 for most people. Cost for an LSA or Sport pilot license is about the same, or maybe a little higher with recent increases in fuel costs. A regular private pilot license is going to run a few thousand more than that, for instrument training and night flight training, if you stick to Cessna 152 type aircraft, and don't need a lot of extra hours. If you eventually want both ratings, I think that you'll find you get there in slight fewer total training hours, by getting your powered rating first.
But it may all come down to the people you meet, and the things you learn from them. Sail plane folk can be evangelistic, and it does take hours to wipe the grin off your face, the first time you manage to silently slip up behind a soaring hawk in a sail plane. But don't rush your investigation. Talk to both camps, visit as many flight centers and sail plane bases as you possibly can, and think things through, on the basis of what you learn.
posted by paulsc at 12:58 PM on May 10, 2008
Mr. Cocoa has powered and glider ratings--powered for about 25 years and glider for about four. He did the glider training here, which you may consider drivable, and his practical was administered sternly by a gentleman whose own test was given by one of the Wright brothers.
posted by cocoagirl at 1:12 PM on May 10, 2008
posted by cocoagirl at 1:12 PM on May 10, 2008
A long time ago (1991) I spent about a week at Estrella Sailport/Arizona Soaring (about 20 miles south of Phoenix) and was able to solo. I had previously been taking lessons with a soaring club near Seattle. No doubt, a lot has changed at Estrella since I was there, but it's convenient to Phoenix and would be worth checking out.
You'd probably save a lot money if you become a member of a soaring club. The one I used to be a member of didn't charge for lessons, only rental of the sailplane.
posted by ShooBoo at 6:52 PM on May 10, 2008
You'd probably save a lot money if you become a member of a soaring club. The one I used to be a member of didn't charge for lessons, only rental of the sailplane.
posted by ShooBoo at 6:52 PM on May 10, 2008
Like ShooBoo said...
If you have more time than money, go with a club. However, they usually only operate on weekends, and the equipment may be down for maintenance. You'll have to wait your turn and help out.
If you have more money than time, go with a commercial operator. The instructors, gliders, and towplanes are at the ready for you. I went to Soar Minden in Nevada.
More info:
- Go to the Soaring Society of America website (http://www.ssa.org) or pick up a copy of Soaring magazine.
- Look around on rec.aviation.soaring (they tend to talk a lot about equipment and contests). Ask this same question.
- Look for websites of local soaring groups such as http://www.pacificsoaring.org/clubs.html. Many have good general information
- The book that helped me most was Tom Knauff's "Guide to Glider Basics: from First Flight to Solo"
posted by ebellicosa at 10:15 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you have more time than money, go with a club. However, they usually only operate on weekends, and the equipment may be down for maintenance. You'll have to wait your turn and help out.
If you have more money than time, go with a commercial operator. The instructors, gliders, and towplanes are at the ready for you. I went to Soar Minden in Nevada.
More info:
- Go to the Soaring Society of America website (http://www.ssa.org) or pick up a copy of Soaring magazine.
- Look around on rec.aviation.soaring (they tend to talk a lot about equipment and contests). Ask this same question.
- Look for websites of local soaring groups such as http://www.pacificsoaring.org/clubs.html. Many have good general information
- The book that helped me most was Tom Knauff's "Guide to Glider Basics: from First Flight to Solo"
posted by ebellicosa at 10:15 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also, subscribing to RC Modeler helped a lot. The web site looks like a fairly good resource.
Finding a club and just hanging out at the events with the more experienced folks goes a LONG way. Best way to find a club is ask around at one of those hobby shops that sell modeling kits.
posted by ctmf at 11:52 AM on May 10, 2008