Should I go to law school?
March 22, 2008 9:21 PM Subscribe
Should I go to law school? I've gotten into some good schools, and while the idea of a career in law doesn't necessarily thrill me, I'm tempted just to go, out of practical considerations for getting on with my life and not weighing my options any further.
I'm approaching my late 20's. Since graduating college I've had a couple of respectable but not terribly interesting jobs, traveled quite a bit, and moved around a lot. Basically I feel like I've been spinning my wheels. I've been waiting for a career choice to jump out at me, but so far, none have, and at this point, I don't think any will. I don't lack for interests; rather, I lack a single, overriding passion that could steer me in a particular direction. In a way, the problem is that I have too many interests, and -- anonymity affords immodesty -- too many talents. When I see a choice I could make, I also see all the choices that I can't make as a result. Textbook case of "analysis-paralysis," I suppose.
Law has been on my mind at least since college, but I've always been put it off by its reputation as a fallback option for directionless humanities types (which is what I am, essentially). But I also realize that the warnings against it may actually be making me more hesitant about the field than I otherwise would be. I think I'd make a good lawyer. I also think there are many parts of law I'd enjoy. It would give me a chance to read and write, to formulate and analyze arguments, and to learn new things. It's a (potentially) intellectually stimulating field that could provide a comfortable living, which is something I do care about. I don't have any illusions that I'd love it, but that's probably expecting too much anyway. Moreover, I can't think of any other careers that, all things considered, I'd be better off in.
I applied to law school last fall and I've been been admitted to some very good schools (top 10). I'm eager to begin my career, whatever it's going to be. I want to be tested and to excel. Moreover, I know now that waiting for a career choice to fall into my lap is probably foolish, and that I probably just need to pick something and pursue it. The "what" of that decision is almost secondary to the act of deciding. I could postpone it another year, but I'm not sure what I'd do during that time that would make any difference. I'd probably just while away another year in a job I don't particularly like and continue to brood over things.
So, two questions: Should I go to law school, even though the idea of a career in law doesn't necessarily excite me? And at what point should pragmatic concerns outweigh any notion of "finding one's true calling," making it prudent to simply commit to a path and get on with things?
I'm approaching my late 20's. Since graduating college I've had a couple of respectable but not terribly interesting jobs, traveled quite a bit, and moved around a lot. Basically I feel like I've been spinning my wheels. I've been waiting for a career choice to jump out at me, but so far, none have, and at this point, I don't think any will. I don't lack for interests; rather, I lack a single, overriding passion that could steer me in a particular direction. In a way, the problem is that I have too many interests, and -- anonymity affords immodesty -- too many talents. When I see a choice I could make, I also see all the choices that I can't make as a result. Textbook case of "analysis-paralysis," I suppose.
Law has been on my mind at least since college, but I've always been put it off by its reputation as a fallback option for directionless humanities types (which is what I am, essentially). But I also realize that the warnings against it may actually be making me more hesitant about the field than I otherwise would be. I think I'd make a good lawyer. I also think there are many parts of law I'd enjoy. It would give me a chance to read and write, to formulate and analyze arguments, and to learn new things. It's a (potentially) intellectually stimulating field that could provide a comfortable living, which is something I do care about. I don't have any illusions that I'd love it, but that's probably expecting too much anyway. Moreover, I can't think of any other careers that, all things considered, I'd be better off in.
I applied to law school last fall and I've been been admitted to some very good schools (top 10). I'm eager to begin my career, whatever it's going to be. I want to be tested and to excel. Moreover, I know now that waiting for a career choice to fall into my lap is probably foolish, and that I probably just need to pick something and pursue it. The "what" of that decision is almost secondary to the act of deciding. I could postpone it another year, but I'm not sure what I'd do during that time that would make any difference. I'd probably just while away another year in a job I don't particularly like and continue to brood over things.
So, two questions: Should I go to law school, even though the idea of a career in law doesn't necessarily excite me? And at what point should pragmatic concerns outweigh any notion of "finding one's true calling," making it prudent to simply commit to a path and get on with things?
Seconding: No. Too many people have made this same decision, and law hiring is now a seller's market. Struggling to break into a job you don't love will make you tired and old before your time.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:46 PM on March 22, 2008
posted by Countess Elena at 9:46 PM on March 22, 2008
Buyer's market, I meant to say. That is, there's too many law grads and not enough jobs.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:47 PM on March 22, 2008
posted by Countess Elena at 9:47 PM on March 22, 2008
Hell, no. Law school is not what you should do if you don't know what else to do.
Most of the people you'll meet in law school will be disgusting degenerates, and the ones who aren't horrible human beings are married and don't have time to make new friends. You won't make good contacts.
You'll have to take a horrible job in corporate law to work off your student loans. It will kill your soul.
Law school really does change your DNA. It turns you into someone disgusting. Go for an MFA or something.
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 9:49 PM on March 22, 2008
Most of the people you'll meet in law school will be disgusting degenerates, and the ones who aren't horrible human beings are married and don't have time to make new friends. You won't make good contacts.
You'll have to take a horrible job in corporate law to work off your student loans. It will kill your soul.
Law school really does change your DNA. It turns you into someone disgusting. Go for an MFA or something.
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 9:49 PM on March 22, 2008
Nope. If you don't want to be a lawyer, you should definitely not go to law school.
As much fun as it would be to say "I went to Harvard Law" or wherever you got it, having to immediately start paying off a six-figure debt stinks. It just ain't worth it.
posted by meta_eli at 9:53 PM on March 22, 2008
As much fun as it would be to say "I went to Harvard Law" or wherever you got it, having to immediately start paying off a six-figure debt stinks. It just ain't worth it.
posted by meta_eli at 9:53 PM on March 22, 2008
Absolutely go. I have several friends who went to law school, don't practice, but found their jobs through law school/internship contacts. One's an art curator, one works for UNICEF, one's a book editor and one went into legal finance. I went back to school in my late 20s (Ph.D, not law) and the time to figure things out while making connections through school and getting a kick ass degree in the meantime was a pretty sweet deal. I didn't go into academia or research, but landed a job I love. If you can afford it, you should totally go.
posted by meerkatty at 9:54 PM on March 22, 2008
posted by meerkatty at 9:54 PM on March 22, 2008
"The vast majority of lawyers do not have high-paying jobs"
The vast majority of lawyers haven't graduated from top ten schools, though. Going to a top law school will vastly increase the odds, right?
I'm not saying the OP should definitely go—everyone I've asked describes law school and the legal profession as pretty soul-crushing. But I'm pretty sure going to a highly ranked law school gives you a much better chance at a lucrative job.
posted by Bizurke at 10:02 PM on March 22, 2008
The vast majority of lawyers haven't graduated from top ten schools, though. Going to a top law school will vastly increase the odds, right?
I'm not saying the OP should definitely go—everyone I've asked describes law school and the legal profession as pretty soul-crushing. But I'm pretty sure going to a highly ranked law school gives you a much better chance at a lucrative job.
posted by Bizurke at 10:02 PM on March 22, 2008
I think you should go if you're interested in the subject matter and the process of learning to think like a lawyer. Just don't expect to "find yourself," career-wise -- it might happen and it might not. Consider the possibility that after some hefty student loans and three years of rigorous work, you still may end up without having discovered your "single, overriding passion." If that's okay with you, then go for it.
As a data point, I started law school with a similar mindset, and I don't regret my decision. I did internships with a (very) small law firm and a legal aid organization prior to applying, though, and that was useful. I would suggest that you do something similar you can get a feel for what lawyers actually "do" before making any big commitments.
And, contrary to freshwater_pr0n's statements, I didn't meet any "disgusting degenerates" in law school, although I did meet some nice, smart, funny people (both married and unmarried).
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 10:19 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
As a data point, I started law school with a similar mindset, and I don't regret my decision. I did internships with a (very) small law firm and a legal aid organization prior to applying, though, and that was useful. I would suggest that you do something similar you can get a feel for what lawyers actually "do" before making any big commitments.
And, contrary to freshwater_pr0n's statements, I didn't meet any "disgusting degenerates" in law school, although I did meet some nice, smart, funny people (both married and unmarried).
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 10:19 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Law school doesn't turn you into someone disgusting any more than business school does - although I can understand the confusion... many disgusting people are attracted to these programs. I went to law school and I'm glad I did - I have an enormous number of options as far as work that I can do, and at the very least I know I'll never have to work retail again. Debt is a huge concern, so if you want to go to law school, but *don't* want to follow the whole Big Law track... then you might want to consider applying to schools that *aren't* in the top ten, because if you can get into top schools at all, then there are not-top-10 schools that would subsidize your attendance wholly or in large part. Think about state schools... hell, I have friends who went to law school for free. If I had wanted to go the Big Law track, I would have hated law school - I had a lot of miserable classmates who had to be at the top of every course, had to make law review, had to get the right summer jobs, etc.... but for me - I loved law school. If you're a certain kind of thinker, "learning to think like a lawyer" feels like a baby duck finally hitting the water.
posted by moxiedoll at 10:32 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by moxiedoll at 10:32 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Most of the people you'll meet in law school will be disgusting degenerates, and the ones who aren't horrible human beings are married and don't have time to make new friends. You won't make good contacts.
Christ, a little perspective? My brother is in law school now and I've visited with him and his friends. It's a top 20 program, and the placement rates reported post-graduation are pretty good. Not just for folks who want to do the bar but for people going into other areas of law (or into government). And while it's just some anecdotal evidence, they're hardly "disgusting", "horrible" "degenerates". They're regular folks trying to find or follow their passion. And a great number of them, it seems, even given difficulty and amount of their work, are happy with their decision.
If you're going for a Top 10 and have thought it through, go for it if it sounds right. Just be aware of the amount of work you'll be doing. I'm in a very good graduate program now, and heading to an even better one later, and I'm not doing even remotely the same amount of work as my brother is.
posted by barnacles at 10:33 PM on March 22, 2008
Christ, a little perspective? My brother is in law school now and I've visited with him and his friends. It's a top 20 program, and the placement rates reported post-graduation are pretty good. Not just for folks who want to do the bar but for people going into other areas of law (or into government). And while it's just some anecdotal evidence, they're hardly "disgusting", "horrible" "degenerates". They're regular folks trying to find or follow their passion. And a great number of them, it seems, even given difficulty and amount of their work, are happy with their decision.
If you're going for a Top 10 and have thought it through, go for it if it sounds right. Just be aware of the amount of work you'll be doing. I'm in a very good graduate program now, and heading to an even better one later, and I'm not doing even remotely the same amount of work as my brother is.
posted by barnacles at 10:33 PM on March 22, 2008
When they graduate, the people who went to law school because they couldn't think of anything else to do often end up being the lawyers who aren't committed to the ideals of the profession, who view it as "just a well-paying job," and through their neglect of the profession's ideals, end up giving the profession a bad name.
posted by jayder at 10:36 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by jayder at 10:36 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
DO NOT GO unless you know you want to be a lawyer.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:37 PM on March 22, 2008
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:37 PM on March 22, 2008
Don't go to law school unless you are certain you want to be a lawyer. It will saddle you with debt and you'll be pigeonholed into legal jobs it will be difficult to escape. Nor does law school teach you "how to think like a lawyer" in a way that you couldn't pick up from reading some books.
I would say take a risk; try something that you think you enjoy (even if it's NOT a burning passion) and see where you can run with it, perhaps start a business around it, etc. That will probably teach you more about yourself than going to law school will. Of course, easy to say, hard to do, etc. Experiment in lower-cost, lower-commitment ways than law school with all your hobbies and activities related to those hobbies. Try volunteering with them and seeing if you can be productive and useful in any of those capacities. Try new things related to your current interests but that might not seem so appealing at first.
Most of the people you'll meet in law school will be disgusting degenerates, and the ones who aren't horrible human beings are married and don't have time to make new friends.
Nevertheless, this was not my experience. There were plenty of good people.
posted by shivohum at 10:40 PM on March 22, 2008
I would say take a risk; try something that you think you enjoy (even if it's NOT a burning passion) and see where you can run with it, perhaps start a business around it, etc. That will probably teach you more about yourself than going to law school will. Of course, easy to say, hard to do, etc. Experiment in lower-cost, lower-commitment ways than law school with all your hobbies and activities related to those hobbies. Try volunteering with them and seeing if you can be productive and useful in any of those capacities. Try new things related to your current interests but that might not seem so appealing at first.
Most of the people you'll meet in law school will be disgusting degenerates, and the ones who aren't horrible human beings are married and don't have time to make new friends.
Nevertheless, this was not my experience. There were plenty of good people.
posted by shivohum at 10:40 PM on March 22, 2008
Another lawyer chiming in to refute The World Famous, and also to second very strongly what moxiedoll wrote. Yes, go - as long as the economics of this choice are not going to reduce greatly what choices you have after you graduate. And, just a word of warning - law school doesn't require you to be a lawyer later (as noted by meerkatty), but if you decide to be a lawyer, realize that it is nothing like law school. (i.e. if you dislike law school (like I did) you can enjoy practicing law (I couldn't be happier with my job) so don't decide yes or no on being a lawyer based on your experience in law school.)
posted by birdsquared at 10:41 PM on March 22, 2008
posted by birdsquared at 10:41 PM on March 22, 2008
Yes, go. A top 10 law degree is one of the most flexible, options-generating things that a person can attain.
The only caveat I would say is if you don't think you can or would do the necessary work. No point in being the guy who failed out of a top 10 law school. Go there, spend the 3 years, and do what it takes to succeed.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:46 PM on March 22, 2008
The only caveat I would say is if you don't think you can or would do the necessary work. No point in being the guy who failed out of a top 10 law school. Go there, spend the 3 years, and do what it takes to succeed.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:46 PM on March 22, 2008
I'm going to jump on the no train. There's a graph on the NALP website that shows average atty salaries, and there are two -- 160Kish and 50Kish. Guess which one has more graduates.
About law school itself. Some people who are ambivalent about law go, find their calling, and really enjoy it. Many find the entire thing obnoxious and hate their lives, wanting to drop out but are propelled by the sunk cost.
A lot depends on individual schools, too. Some law schools have cultures that make you just miserable. Be sure to talk to students who go there before you commit. Good luck!
posted by lockestockbarrel at 10:48 PM on March 22, 2008
About law school itself. Some people who are ambivalent about law go, find their calling, and really enjoy it. Many find the entire thing obnoxious and hate their lives, wanting to drop out but are propelled by the sunk cost.
A lot depends on individual schools, too. Some law schools have cultures that make you just miserable. Be sure to talk to students who go there before you commit. Good luck!
posted by lockestockbarrel at 10:48 PM on March 22, 2008
No. No one without a burning desire to be a lawyer and a fairly accurate idea of what a lawyer actually does should ever go to law school.
IANAL, but I think this a pretty ridiculous sentiment. Having a law degree is a great path to a lot of different carriers (Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards are all lawyers, for example). There is a huge wide range of things you can do. And also, you will at least get a decent wage, and I'd imagine graduating from a top 10 school would be a good way to get a lot of money.
And furthermore, law is the ultimate place for people "In it for the money." There is a huge upside to a law degree. Go for it.
posted by delmoi at 10:52 PM on March 22, 2008
IANAL, but I think this a pretty ridiculous sentiment. Having a law degree is a great path to a lot of different carriers (Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards are all lawyers, for example). There is a huge wide range of things you can do. And also, you will at least get a decent wage, and I'd imagine graduating from a top 10 school would be a good way to get a lot of money.
And furthermore, law is the ultimate place for people "In it for the money." There is a huge upside to a law degree. Go for it.
posted by delmoi at 10:52 PM on March 22, 2008
"If you think reading the phone book sounds like fun, go to law school."
- This is a quote from one of my friends who is an attorney.
posted by Ostara at 10:54 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
- This is a quote from one of my friends who is an attorney.
posted by Ostara at 10:54 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
I somehow missed the disgusting degenerates, too. Guess I wasn't invited to the right parties.
Law school seems very long, and can be quite stressful at points. It's also expensive. If you're used to traveling around and doing what you please, you might be upset when your options are much more constrained coming out of law school. If you have loans, you really will have to settle down, work, and develop your career.
I have a "horrible job in corporate law" and it's suited me just fine so far. There are days I love it, and there are days I don't, but I haven't felt any soul crushing. On the other hand, it's a very detail-oriented job, which doesn't suit some people, and it can be demanding of both time and energy.
The job can be rewarding, too, but to reap those rewards, you really have invest yourself in what you do. Initiative is also extremely important. The people who approach it like a 9-5 tend to hate it.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 10:55 PM on March 22, 2008
Law school seems very long, and can be quite stressful at points. It's also expensive. If you're used to traveling around and doing what you please, you might be upset when your options are much more constrained coming out of law school. If you have loans, you really will have to settle down, work, and develop your career.
I have a "horrible job in corporate law" and it's suited me just fine so far. There are days I love it, and there are days I don't, but I haven't felt any soul crushing. On the other hand, it's a very detail-oriented job, which doesn't suit some people, and it can be demanding of both time and energy.
The job can be rewarding, too, but to reap those rewards, you really have invest yourself in what you do. Initiative is also extremely important. The people who approach it like a 9-5 tend to hate it.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 10:55 PM on March 22, 2008
Anonymous, I basically went to law school for the same reasons you are considering going. Difference: I had crappy undergrad grades so I got into a 4th tier law school instead of a top 10 one. I'm planning to do criminal law when I graduate next year, and I'm really looking forward to the opportunity. The debt, however, is quite burdensome, and it will severely limit my options and dictate when my wife and I will be able to have children (even with a scholarship paying 60 percent of tuition, the two of us together will have $150k in student loans when I graduate.
Go sit in on a few law classes. See if you like the socratic method. Check out a law book from the library, read a 20-page excerpt and see if you enjoy it. Imagine a job where the legal answers are usually quite different from the moral answers, and then realize that no matter what field of law you go in to, to be the best lawyer possible you'll often have to make difficult ethical decisions.
Keep in mind, though, that even if you don't want to be a lawyer, a law degree is pretty neat. They will rewire your thinking process and it will look great on a resume. There's plenty of scumbags in law school but I've also made some close friends. YMMV.
posted by Happydaz at 10:55 PM on March 22, 2008
Go sit in on a few law classes. See if you like the socratic method. Check out a law book from the library, read a 20-page excerpt and see if you enjoy it. Imagine a job where the legal answers are usually quite different from the moral answers, and then realize that no matter what field of law you go in to, to be the best lawyer possible you'll often have to make difficult ethical decisions.
Keep in mind, though, that even if you don't want to be a lawyer, a law degree is pretty neat. They will rewire your thinking process and it will look great on a resume. There's plenty of scumbags in law school but I've also made some close friends. YMMV.
posted by Happydaz at 10:55 PM on March 22, 2008
The only caveat I would say is if you don't think you can or would do the necessary work. No point in being the guy who failed out of a top 10 law school. Go there, spend the 3 years, and do what it takes to succeed.
Not much need to worry about that unless you're truly irresponsible. It practically takes effort to fail out of these schools.
posted by shivohum at 11:02 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Not much need to worry about that unless you're truly irresponsible. It practically takes effort to fail out of these schools.
posted by shivohum at 11:02 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
To frame this answer: I'm starting law school in the fall, maybe at one of the same places you're considering. But I want to be a lawyer, and have since high school.
Your case is a bit different. Nobody says you have to be super-excited about your career or in love with it... but if you're just kinda "blah" about it, law school and law practice will probably eat you alive. Again, I haven't been to law school yet, but it's universally understood to be on a completely different plane, in terms of the intensity of demands it places on you, than undergrad. No offense to anyone, but I'd think "directionless humanities types" are probably better off sticking with humanities for grad school; people in law school tend to be more directed humanities types -- directed to practicing law, that is. (Just because that lib arts degree is useless on its own doesn't mean we don't have a plan in place!)
So anyway, after law school works your ass to death, remember you've paid for the privilege. Like, a lot. Now, maybe you've got some sweet scholarships, but if not, you've got to pay off some big loans. If you're like most people, that means you need to be making six-figures, minimum, which often requires working in a law firm and billing well over 40 hours a week. Coming out of a top-ten school, you're likely to get a well-paying job, but you will again have to work your ass off to keep it. For all I know, you're a workaholic that would be perfect for that kind of job... but just bear in mind, it's not all intellectual stimulation. At some point, you've got to make it rain.
Sure, you can get a non-legal job when you finish. But a) a JD doesn't qualify you for anything else other than being a lawyer, and arguably doesn't prepare you for anything else either; and b) unless you're pulling down big bucks (and odds aren't great you will be), you'll likely have to make some serious lifestyle sacrifices (roughly the equivalent of a house payment per month) until your loan debt is satisfied.
During two summers of undergrad, I interned in a firm in my hometown to see what practicing law would actually be like. The experience had a great influence in my continuing to pursue this goal. I suggest you try something similar. Since you're a bit older, you might want to look into being a paralegal or doing some other type of clerical work. You'd probably have to make a longer-term commitment than just a few months, so that might require you to defer your law school admission for a year. But it wouldn't be an aimless year -- you'd be doing valuable research to decide which fork in the road to take at this time. You need to know what you're getting into.
I knew several people that did this a few years out of college. One of them ended up actually going to law school. Another ended up teaching at my high school because he hated legal work. Both of them likely made much better, more informed choices than they would have had they jumped in blindly for lack of better options.
Good luck with your decision.
posted by SuperNova at 11:05 PM on March 22, 2008
Your case is a bit different. Nobody says you have to be super-excited about your career or in love with it... but if you're just kinda "blah" about it, law school and law practice will probably eat you alive. Again, I haven't been to law school yet, but it's universally understood to be on a completely different plane, in terms of the intensity of demands it places on you, than undergrad. No offense to anyone, but I'd think "directionless humanities types" are probably better off sticking with humanities for grad school; people in law school tend to be more directed humanities types -- directed to practicing law, that is. (Just because that lib arts degree is useless on its own doesn't mean we don't have a plan in place!)
So anyway, after law school works your ass to death, remember you've paid for the privilege. Like, a lot. Now, maybe you've got some sweet scholarships, but if not, you've got to pay off some big loans. If you're like most people, that means you need to be making six-figures, minimum, which often requires working in a law firm and billing well over 40 hours a week. Coming out of a top-ten school, you're likely to get a well-paying job, but you will again have to work your ass off to keep it. For all I know, you're a workaholic that would be perfect for that kind of job... but just bear in mind, it's not all intellectual stimulation. At some point, you've got to make it rain.
Sure, you can get a non-legal job when you finish. But a) a JD doesn't qualify you for anything else other than being a lawyer, and arguably doesn't prepare you for anything else either; and b) unless you're pulling down big bucks (and odds aren't great you will be), you'll likely have to make some serious lifestyle sacrifices (roughly the equivalent of a house payment per month) until your loan debt is satisfied.
During two summers of undergrad, I interned in a firm in my hometown to see what practicing law would actually be like. The experience had a great influence in my continuing to pursue this goal. I suggest you try something similar. Since you're a bit older, you might want to look into being a paralegal or doing some other type of clerical work. You'd probably have to make a longer-term commitment than just a few months, so that might require you to defer your law school admission for a year. But it wouldn't be an aimless year -- you'd be doing valuable research to decide which fork in the road to take at this time. You need to know what you're getting into.
I knew several people that did this a few years out of college. One of them ended up actually going to law school. Another ended up teaching at my high school because he hated legal work. Both of them likely made much better, more informed choices than they would have had they jumped in blindly for lack of better options.
Good luck with your decision.
posted by SuperNova at 11:05 PM on March 22, 2008
Yes. You sound like me ten years ago. I went, and am glad I did. I won't bore you with the personal story, but I will just say that everyone who says "don't go unless you really, really want to be a lawyer" is missing something pretty important: "lawyer" is not a particularly detailed job description.
One does not need to have a passion for "The Law" to go into the field. In fact, the idea of such a passion before law school strikes me as a bit silly. For practical purposes, "The Law" really just refers to the broad range of ways that folks in society structure their relationships. Just as there are many different kinds of relationships in society, there are many different kinds of roles lawyers can play.
Sure, at a top-10 school, you'll feel yourself funneled into Biglaw, but (1) you don't have to go there if you don't want; (2) if you decide to go that route, it can be a decent life -- intellectually and financially rewarding, albeit not perfect; and (3) even within Biglaw, there is a huge range of work that can be done (as a litigator, I am often amazed that the corporate, IP, tax, and international trade folks share a one word job description with me).
So, go to law school. You'll enjoy it. You'll learn a lot -- not just about law, but about all sorts of things that it deals with (i.e., just about everything). When you get out, you may find yourself stuck in the limited field of all human affairs. If that's too small a box, there's always business school.
(Note: I would not give the same advice to every person considering law school. Not everyone is intellectually curious and has gotten into top-10 law schools)
posted by lionelhutz5 at 11:13 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
One does not need to have a passion for "The Law" to go into the field. In fact, the idea of such a passion before law school strikes me as a bit silly. For practical purposes, "The Law" really just refers to the broad range of ways that folks in society structure their relationships. Just as there are many different kinds of relationships in society, there are many different kinds of roles lawyers can play.
Sure, at a top-10 school, you'll feel yourself funneled into Biglaw, but (1) you don't have to go there if you don't want; (2) if you decide to go that route, it can be a decent life -- intellectually and financially rewarding, albeit not perfect; and (3) even within Biglaw, there is a huge range of work that can be done (as a litigator, I am often amazed that the corporate, IP, tax, and international trade folks share a one word job description with me).
So, go to law school. You'll enjoy it. You'll learn a lot -- not just about law, but about all sorts of things that it deals with (i.e., just about everything). When you get out, you may find yourself stuck in the limited field of all human affairs. If that's too small a box, there's always business school.
(Note: I would not give the same advice to every person considering law school. Not everyone is intellectually curious and has gotten into top-10 law schools)
posted by lionelhutz5 at 11:13 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Third year law student reporting in to Nth all of the people saying "do not go" and adding this:
Your reasons for wanting to go to law school are precisely the worst possible reasons. "Because I'm not thrilled with my other options" is a setup for a miserable three years. Ignore the "my experience turned out fine" as exceptions to the rule.
Don't take the chance. You can always go to law school later if you decide you really want to. Don't let some quarter-life crisis manipulate you into wasting a lot fo time and money on something you don't really want.
posted by toomuchpete at 12:16 AM on March 23, 2008
Your reasons for wanting to go to law school are precisely the worst possible reasons. "Because I'm not thrilled with my other options" is a setup for a miserable three years. Ignore the "my experience turned out fine" as exceptions to the rule.
Don't take the chance. You can always go to law school later if you decide you really want to. Don't let some quarter-life crisis manipulate you into wasting a lot fo time and money on something you don't really want.
posted by toomuchpete at 12:16 AM on March 23, 2008
I should clarify my response, and in doing so address some of the nay-sayers: I am not suggesting you go to law school if you don't genuinely like school for its own sake. If you neither enjoy being in school nor have a particular interest in any particular career path, I can't imagine why you'd go back to any school. I get the impression you enjoy learning and would get something out of law school independent of where it left you. As it happens, it will leave you in a much better place than would most other graduate schools that are open and appealing to aimless humanities types.
Plus, in my experience those who have worked for a while before law school find it much less intense than do those coming straight from college. If you're accustomed to working at least 9 to 5 every week day and can devote similar work hours to law school, you will be more than fine.
posted by lionelhutz5 at 12:46 AM on March 23, 2008
Plus, in my experience those who have worked for a while before law school find it much less intense than do those coming straight from college. If you're accustomed to working at least 9 to 5 every week day and can devote similar work hours to law school, you will be more than fine.
posted by lionelhutz5 at 12:46 AM on March 23, 2008
Something that you need to consider: employment figures for law school graduates are ridiculously misleading. Most new JDs do not make $150k or even anywhere near that.
In my city, the "big law" firms aren't looking at anyone who isn't in the top 15% of their class and on law review. So, 85% of my classmates are necessarily disqualified from kinds of jobs that would actually pay enough to enable one to pay $1,500/mo loan payments. Half of the students aren't even in the top 50% of the class!
I suppose what I should be saying is that if you do decide to go, go to the school that has offered to you substantial grants or scholarships. As it goes, now, I could have children in high school by the time my loans are paid off.
posted by cac at 5:01 AM on March 23, 2008
In my city, the "big law" firms aren't looking at anyone who isn't in the top 15% of their class and on law review. So, 85% of my classmates are necessarily disqualified from kinds of jobs that would actually pay enough to enable one to pay $1,500/mo loan payments. Half of the students aren't even in the top 50% of the class!
I suppose what I should be saying is that if you do decide to go, go to the school that has offered to you substantial grants or scholarships. As it goes, now, I could have children in high school by the time my loans are paid off.
posted by cac at 5:01 AM on March 23, 2008
It's a (potentially) intellectually stimulating field that could provide a comfortable living, which is something I do care about.
Hard truth: if you have a resume that will get you in to a good law school and you're not already making a comfortable living (i.e., what an associate would make in your city), you lack the ambition and/or confidence to make a comfortable living as a lawyer.
posted by backupjesus at 6:22 AM on March 23, 2008
Hard truth: if you have a resume that will get you in to a good law school and you're not already making a comfortable living (i.e., what an associate would make in your city), you lack the ambition and/or confidence to make a comfortable living as a lawyer.
posted by backupjesus at 6:22 AM on March 23, 2008
I'm in law school. I'm glad I'm in law school. If you want to go, go for it, but make sure your expectations are reasonable. It does sound a little like you're using it as a fallback option, which isn't ideal, but it's workable.
posted by craven_morhead at 6:29 AM on March 23, 2008
posted by craven_morhead at 6:29 AM on March 23, 2008
Go work for a lawyer. Work for several different ones if you can manage.
Go to the courthouse. Hang out there for a couple of days. Be bold - introduce yourself to some lawyers and ask them about their job. Be bolder - introduce yourself to a judge, briefly tell them you're considering going to law school and looking for advice. As this thread seems to indicate, the bar speaks about themselves easily.
Most academic programs downplay the cost of their education -- law schools are possibly the worst offenders. Take the tuition VERY seriously, as staggering debt will certainly limit career options.
A wise person once told me: About 10% of all lawyers are competent. Of that ten percent, only 10% of them have the requisite integrity. Good thing there so many lawyers -- the absolute number of responsible, competent attorneys is quite high.
This probably doesn't apply to BigLaw career paths, but if you have an idea about where geographically you want to practice, then take stock of the job market. Some areas - like mine - have a severe glut of lawyers. The ratio of annual local law school graduates to licensed attorneys is a good place to start.
If you indeed have several talents, I would encourage you to pursue on of them assiduously outside of law school first. Other passions will likely take a back seat for three years if you intend to get your schooling right.
posted by GPF at 6:32 AM on March 23, 2008
Go to the courthouse. Hang out there for a couple of days. Be bold - introduce yourself to some lawyers and ask them about their job. Be bolder - introduce yourself to a judge, briefly tell them you're considering going to law school and looking for advice. As this thread seems to indicate, the bar speaks about themselves easily.
Most academic programs downplay the cost of their education -- law schools are possibly the worst offenders. Take the tuition VERY seriously, as staggering debt will certainly limit career options.
A wise person once told me: About 10% of all lawyers are competent. Of that ten percent, only 10% of them have the requisite integrity. Good thing there so many lawyers -- the absolute number of responsible, competent attorneys is quite high.
This probably doesn't apply to BigLaw career paths, but if you have an idea about where geographically you want to practice, then take stock of the job market. Some areas - like mine - have a severe glut of lawyers. The ratio of annual local law school graduates to licensed attorneys is a good place to start.
If you indeed have several talents, I would encourage you to pursue on of them assiduously outside of law school first. Other passions will likely take a back seat for three years if you intend to get your schooling right.
posted by GPF at 6:32 AM on March 23, 2008
I was in your shoes, except I made the decision to go (at the last minute) immediately upon graduating from college. Now that my first year is very nearly complete, I still feel like I am spinning my wheels. The noncommittal attitude I brought in with me has not dissipated. It might, for you, or it might not. Perhaps you could apply to a school that isn't quite in the top 10 and get your education subsidized, like I did, as a way of deciding whether you want to attend law school by actually going - without the financial impact. (This may be a double-edged sword, though, because now I am propelled by my good fortunes rather than my sunken cost.)
Here's what I think: don't go to law school to postpone the real world another few years, or to try and force yourself to fit a certain career that you're obviously not too thrilled about. Rather than spend more time "waiting for a career choice to jump out" at you, why not take life by the horns, pick one of your many talents or interests, and see what happens? Use the free time that you won't have during law school to attempt something challenging, thrilling, different. If your resume got you into a top 10 school, you should be able to do some other nifty things with it, also.
Also, don't ask us. Go to one of the schools you might want to attend. Sit in on some classes. Find some students. Talk to a professor who teaches a course you're interested in. When people gave me this advice I mostly ignored it, because I'm delusional. But as a law student, let me tell you that your preconceived notions may be insufficient, and - more importantly - most of my peers are very friendly and approachable, and would love to impart some 1L wisdom that nobody ever gave them.
posted by thejoshu at 6:46 AM on March 23, 2008
Here's what I think: don't go to law school to postpone the real world another few years, or to try and force yourself to fit a certain career that you're obviously not too thrilled about. Rather than spend more time "waiting for a career choice to jump out" at you, why not take life by the horns, pick one of your many talents or interests, and see what happens? Use the free time that you won't have during law school to attempt something challenging, thrilling, different. If your resume got you into a top 10 school, you should be able to do some other nifty things with it, also.
Also, don't ask us. Go to one of the schools you might want to attend. Sit in on some classes. Find some students. Talk to a professor who teaches a course you're interested in. When people gave me this advice I mostly ignored it, because I'm delusional. But as a law student, let me tell you that your preconceived notions may be insufficient, and - more importantly - most of my peers are very friendly and approachable, and would love to impart some 1L wisdom that nobody ever gave them.
posted by thejoshu at 6:46 AM on March 23, 2008
Two things that I would consider if I were in your shoes:
1) If you decide to go and then leave Law school, will you have burned someone's financial investment up in smoke? In other words, if you or someone close to you is taking up some serious debt to put you through law school, it might be worth their investment if you graduate as a lawyer, but if you decide to move onto another field, all that money spent on the Law school might potentially go down the drain.
2) now might be your only opportunity to go to law school. When you are older, you might be married with kids or be in a financial situation where you are on your own (in other words, you won't be able to quit your job to dedicate the full time work required to successfuly complete your studies)
If money is not an issue, I say go to Law school, put it under your belt. If you decide to go into another field, so be it. Who knows - you might change your mind again at 30, 40, 50 year old, or you might need to practice Law as a fallback career until you find something more interesting.
That being said, make sure that you can actually do this. Maybe the bar association has a policy that dictates that one must redo course X, Y and Z in order to practice law if he or she has not practiced law for a number of years.
For example, I think if you are a medical specialist (i.e. a doctor with a specialty), you need to re-certify yourself every year in order to be able to practice as a specialst. Will you need to do this as a lawyer, especially one who is not practicing (i.e. re-take the bar exam every couple of years), or is the rule "once a lawyer, always a lawyer"? Find this out too! It can be important!
posted by bitteroldman at 6:56 AM on March 23, 2008
1) If you decide to go and then leave Law school, will you have burned someone's financial investment up in smoke? In other words, if you or someone close to you is taking up some serious debt to put you through law school, it might be worth their investment if you graduate as a lawyer, but if you decide to move onto another field, all that money spent on the Law school might potentially go down the drain.
2) now might be your only opportunity to go to law school. When you are older, you might be married with kids or be in a financial situation where you are on your own (in other words, you won't be able to quit your job to dedicate the full time work required to successfuly complete your studies)
If money is not an issue, I say go to Law school, put it under your belt. If you decide to go into another field, so be it. Who knows - you might change your mind again at 30, 40, 50 year old, or you might need to practice Law as a fallback career until you find something more interesting.
That being said, make sure that you can actually do this. Maybe the bar association has a policy that dictates that one must redo course X, Y and Z in order to practice law if he or she has not practiced law for a number of years.
For example, I think if you are a medical specialist (i.e. a doctor with a specialty), you need to re-certify yourself every year in order to be able to practice as a specialst. Will you need to do this as a lawyer, especially one who is not practicing (i.e. re-take the bar exam every couple of years), or is the rule "once a lawyer, always a lawyer"? Find this out too! It can be important!
posted by bitteroldman at 6:56 AM on March 23, 2008
Go. Unless you are certain you want to do something else, you are just spinning your wheels and wasting time. If you go to a Top 10, you will get a great job. If you go to a Top 10, you will have an incredibly powerful marketable degree for the rest of your life. If you still can't decide, defer admission for a year, try something else (travelling, teaching, whatever) and then go unless you clearly have a plan to do something else.
Also lawyers can do many many things, you don't necessarily have to be trial lawyer, nor do you have to be in law. It's a powerful degree which you can use for may different fields.
posted by ruwan at 7:59 AM on March 23, 2008
Also lawyers can do many many things, you don't necessarily have to be trial lawyer, nor do you have to be in law. It's a powerful degree which you can use for may different fields.
posted by ruwan at 7:59 AM on March 23, 2008
I have been a lawyer for 15 years and would greatly encourage you to go to a top ten law school. At the time I went to a well-respected (probably top 40) law school, I had no idea what it meant to be a lawyer. Can't say that it has been my passion, but it has been a good career. And I am grateful to always have the degree (cum laude) to fall back on if need be. I do know that that the education is helpful in all areas of life as well as a career.
IF you decide to go and invest the time and money to get the degree, it is very important to be at the top of your class so that a top paying job (from which you can pay back loans) can be yours. My old law firm starts its associates out at $160,000/year and I am not in one of the big cities! That pays off loans very quickly.
The practice of law has many fields that offer different day-to-day practice experiences. I was a civil litigator (high stress and acrimony). I have a friend who does wills and trusts (low stress and no acrimony). I say go and see what field might best serve your personality the best, gain the expertise that will help you in all areas of your life--ie you won't find me signing contracts or mortgage loan documents that I do not understand, and always have the degree/knowledge to help you in whatever career you pursue.
All that said, after 12 years of full-time practice, I quit my partnership at the Big Firm. After my time there, I had the expertise and connections to start a non-law related company, which has proven quite successful--now I only work part time (and get paid more).
Good luck.
posted by murrey at 8:00 AM on March 23, 2008
IF you decide to go and invest the time and money to get the degree, it is very important to be at the top of your class so that a top paying job (from which you can pay back loans) can be yours. My old law firm starts its associates out at $160,000/year and I am not in one of the big cities! That pays off loans very quickly.
The practice of law has many fields that offer different day-to-day practice experiences. I was a civil litigator (high stress and acrimony). I have a friend who does wills and trusts (low stress and no acrimony). I say go and see what field might best serve your personality the best, gain the expertise that will help you in all areas of your life--ie you won't find me signing contracts or mortgage loan documents that I do not understand, and always have the degree/knowledge to help you in whatever career you pursue.
All that said, after 12 years of full-time practice, I quit my partnership at the Big Firm. After my time there, I had the expertise and connections to start a non-law related company, which has proven quite successful--now I only work part time (and get paid more).
Good luck.
posted by murrey at 8:00 AM on March 23, 2008
Yes, go. You don't indicate what you would do with your time if you don't go. Why not get a law degree while you get your act together? You are very young. It sounds like you have nothing better to do for a few years anyway.
posted by thomas144 at 8:02 AM on March 23, 2008
posted by thomas144 at 8:02 AM on March 23, 2008
Off the top of my head, I can think of 7 people I know with law degrees. Only two of them are lawyers, and one of the practicing lawyers is not what you think of when you think of lawyer, either. There is also:
-- an editor at a legal publisher (along the lines of WestLaw, but not actually WestLaw)
-- a standards & practices reviewer at NBC
-- a software engineer who uses his law degree as President of his local ACLU chapter
-- a lobbyist
-- a government employee enforcing environmental regulations
I share that information because you don't seem committed to the idea of becoming a lawyer, and it's worth remembering that going to law school is far from a commitment to become a lawyer, at least in the molds we usually think of based on what we see on TV -- criminal prosecution / defense and overworked, overpaid corporate lawyers.
But I also share that information because you worry about being directionless, and going to law school isn't exactly going to limit your choices a whole bunch. If you don't think 3 years of maturity and experience will help you find a direction, such that you know what you want to do with that law degree, you may find yourself on Ask.Me asking about whether pursuing a PhD is a good idea.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:22 AM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
-- an editor at a legal publisher (along the lines of WestLaw, but not actually WestLaw)
-- a standards & practices reviewer at NBC
-- a software engineer who uses his law degree as President of his local ACLU chapter
-- a lobbyist
-- a government employee enforcing environmental regulations
I share that information because you don't seem committed to the idea of becoming a lawyer, and it's worth remembering that going to law school is far from a commitment to become a lawyer, at least in the molds we usually think of based on what we see on TV -- criminal prosecution / defense and overworked, overpaid corporate lawyers.
But I also share that information because you worry about being directionless, and going to law school isn't exactly going to limit your choices a whole bunch. If you don't think 3 years of maturity and experience will help you find a direction, such that you know what you want to do with that law degree, you may find yourself on Ask.Me asking about whether pursuing a PhD is a good idea.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:22 AM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
Everyone telling you that law grads don't make as much money as you think and have trouble getting jobs doesn't understand the difference between a top 10 law school and everywhere else. There is immense value in having a degree from a top 10 law school. I'm at one now, and I went in with almost exactly the same reasons you have- nothing else to do, generally intellectual curiosity, school's not that bad, etc. Now I have more job options than I know what to do with and I found a little area of law that I really like and am excited to start working in. I still felt like I was spinning my wheels after 1L year, but after working over the summer and doing some interesting extra-curriculars and an externship my second year I figured out what I wanted to do. I'm very glad I went to law school.
Is there a way you can reduce the financial risk, in case you end up not wanting to take a high-paying biglaw job? Try playing the schools off each other a bit to get more financial aid, ask about scholarships, etc. You must have good numbers to get into multiple good schools- see how much they really want you. If you have to pay full price I'd still say go, but with less enthusiasm. If you can do it for free or reduced price there's absolutely no question that you should go.
posted by ohio at 8:42 AM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
Is there a way you can reduce the financial risk, in case you end up not wanting to take a high-paying biglaw job? Try playing the schools off each other a bit to get more financial aid, ask about scholarships, etc. You must have good numbers to get into multiple good schools- see how much they really want you. If you have to pay full price I'd still say go, but with less enthusiasm. If you can do it for free or reduced price there's absolutely no question that you should go.
posted by ohio at 8:42 AM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you can afford it (that is, either have money, scholarships, or can pay off the debt on the other side), go for it.
A law school degree is a multiplier. You don't have to go into law when you finish, but a degree in law plus a Bachelors or Masters in another area (math, medicine, physics, computer science, business) would make you an exceptional candidate for a job in that area.
Additionally, a legal education will stretch your mind in new ways. You may find that law is your calling, or you may find your calling in the process.
If I were in your position, I would read some key legal cases and see if it's appealing to follow the reasoning process. If you find it's dry as dust, then stop. If you are interested, then go further.
Law school, by all accounts, is intense, and an intense experience will kick you into finding what you want.
posted by zippy at 9:06 AM on March 23, 2008
A law school degree is a multiplier. You don't have to go into law when you finish, but a degree in law plus a Bachelors or Masters in another area (math, medicine, physics, computer science, business) would make you an exceptional candidate for a job in that area.
Additionally, a legal education will stretch your mind in new ways. You may find that law is your calling, or you may find your calling in the process.
If I were in your position, I would read some key legal cases and see if it's appealing to follow the reasoning process. If you find it's dry as dust, then stop. If you are interested, then go further.
Law school, by all accounts, is intense, and an intense experience will kick you into finding what you want.
posted by zippy at 9:06 AM on March 23, 2008
I noticed that you don't mention financial concerns in your question. If you don't have any, go. It's three years more of learning, three years that will challenge you in a multitude of ways, and it will be, if nothing else, a good experience.
But don't go if you're worried about finances, or if you think the experience itself might suck.
It sounds like you're somewhat excited at the prospect, so do it. What have you got to lose, other than a hundred thousand bucks?
posted by brina at 10:16 AM on March 23, 2008
But don't go if you're worried about finances, or if you think the experience itself might suck.
It sounds like you're somewhat excited at the prospect, so do it. What have you got to lose, other than a hundred thousand bucks?
posted by brina at 10:16 AM on March 23, 2008
DO NOT GO, unless you really, absolutely want to be a lawyer. I'm finishing my 1L year right now, and I would have high-tailed it out of here already if I wasn't totally committed and didn't have a burning desire to be a lawyer. Simply put, its not worth the stress, anxiety, bullshit, and level of hard work and dedication required to graduate (or even get through the first year) if you don't really know if you want to be there.
Yes, it is a very flexible and worth-while degree, and yes, you'd be plenty marketable with a JD from a top-ten school. However, you'd be doing yourself a huge disservice by going if you don't really know what you want to do. And you'd also be wasting a slot in the 1L class that could be given to someone on the waiting list who actually DOES want to be there.
Leave law school for the people who really want to be lawyers. Go "find yourself" somewhere else. If you go and you aren't fully committed, you're going to absolutely fucking miserable.
posted by diggerroo at 11:20 AM on March 23, 2008
Yes, it is a very flexible and worth-while degree, and yes, you'd be plenty marketable with a JD from a top-ten school. However, you'd be doing yourself a huge disservice by going if you don't really know what you want to do. And you'd also be wasting a slot in the 1L class that could be given to someone on the waiting list who actually DOES want to be there.
Leave law school for the people who really want to be lawyers. Go "find yourself" somewhere else. If you go and you aren't fully committed, you're going to absolutely fucking miserable.
posted by diggerroo at 11:20 AM on March 23, 2008
Man, lots of good advice here, and lots of truly terrible advice as well (freshwater_pron stands out as distinctively unhelpful and inaccurate). To speak to a couple of recurring issues, and by way of summary:
1. What school you go to makes a huge difference. It does not matter as much, perhaps, if you have a burning desire to practice law; some of the happiest lawyers I have met went to third tier schools but succeeded because it's what they were born to do. But if you go to a top school, it will be astronomically easier to get a high-paying job that will pay off your loans, it will reduce the pressure to be at the top of your class (which some have told you is essential, when if you are at a top ten school you can get at the top end of the scale if you are roughly in the top half of your class, and often lower), your classes and classmates will be more interesting, and your non-legal options will mushroom.
2. Your lack of a burning desire to be a lawyer is decisive . . . if you have a burning desire to be something else. One of the most popular pieces of advice for directionless would-be JDs is that you should only go if you hunger to be lawyer. I think that's crap. Some people have jobs that fulfill their every desire, but many do not, and many people work to make a living. Do bankers, managers, consultants, etc., all love what they do -- and, more significantly, did they begin their careers thinking that's what they really wanted to do with their lives?
Going to law school is a serious decision, because it's expensive and (for one year in particular) somewhat stressful. But it seems to me the following good advice -- don't sign up for that if there's something else that you really want to do (that you have a semi-realistic chance of achieving), and explore for a while your other options -- becomes bad advice if it's trotted out even for people who lack such dreams and who have looked around for a while. When you hear such advice, imagine those dream-weavers whispering the following to you: "Plastics."
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 12:17 PM on March 23, 2008
1. What school you go to makes a huge difference. It does not matter as much, perhaps, if you have a burning desire to practice law; some of the happiest lawyers I have met went to third tier schools but succeeded because it's what they were born to do. But if you go to a top school, it will be astronomically easier to get a high-paying job that will pay off your loans, it will reduce the pressure to be at the top of your class (which some have told you is essential, when if you are at a top ten school you can get at the top end of the scale if you are roughly in the top half of your class, and often lower), your classes and classmates will be more interesting, and your non-legal options will mushroom.
2. Your lack of a burning desire to be a lawyer is decisive . . . if you have a burning desire to be something else. One of the most popular pieces of advice for directionless would-be JDs is that you should only go if you hunger to be lawyer. I think that's crap. Some people have jobs that fulfill their every desire, but many do not, and many people work to make a living. Do bankers, managers, consultants, etc., all love what they do -- and, more significantly, did they begin their careers thinking that's what they really wanted to do with their lives?
Going to law school is a serious decision, because it's expensive and (for one year in particular) somewhat stressful. But it seems to me the following good advice -- don't sign up for that if there's something else that you really want to do (that you have a semi-realistic chance of achieving), and explore for a while your other options -- becomes bad advice if it's trotted out even for people who lack such dreams and who have looked around for a while. When you hear such advice, imagine those dream-weavers whispering the following to you: "Plastics."
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 12:17 PM on March 23, 2008
A top-10 law degree is never going to be a financial mistake. You'll always be able to yield an incremental gross more than enough, so that your net, after paying off loans, is equal to or exceeds your net an equivalently meaningful non-lawyer job. (Want to be a corporate bureaucrat? The elite law degree version of that job pays $150k while the non-law $90? Want to be a world-saving policy maker? $100k vs. $50k. Etc.) Moreover, you have the option, should you wish to pursue it, of the mid-to-high six figure or even seven figure brass ring of BIGLAW partnership or top-ranked in-house corporate lawyering.
In terms of whether or not this is going to be a life mistake, you need to think about whether practicing law is going to be swimming upstream or swimming downstream for you. Some people have the habits of mind for which law is easy, some for which law is miserably hard. Is it easy for you to work long, long hours? Is meticulous care and attention to detail stressful, or is applying and seeing the result of that kind of diligence very satisfying to you? And, most importantly, how out-of-the-box do you need to be intellectually? Law is not for conceptual innovators, it is for people who love to master rules and systems and apply them better than the next guy.
posted by MattD at 2:24 PM on March 23, 2008
In terms of whether or not this is going to be a life mistake, you need to think about whether practicing law is going to be swimming upstream or swimming downstream for you. Some people have the habits of mind for which law is easy, some for which law is miserably hard. Is it easy for you to work long, long hours? Is meticulous care and attention to detail stressful, or is applying and seeing the result of that kind of diligence very satisfying to you? And, most importantly, how out-of-the-box do you need to be intellectually? Law is not for conceptual innovators, it is for people who love to master rules and systems and apply them better than the next guy.
posted by MattD at 2:24 PM on March 23, 2008
"while the idea of a career in law doesn't necessarily thrill me, I'm tempted just to go, out of practical considerations for getting on with my life and not weighing my options any further."
That sounds like the kind of thing someone who should not go to law school would say. Given the cost of law school, it makes no sense to go just for the sake of having something to do.
There's lots of good advice in this thread. But there's also some really bad advice, like:
"Law school, by all accounts, is intense, and an intense experience will kick you into finding what you want." No, do not go to law school to have an "intense experience." It's not a finding-yourself thing like college.
"Yes, go. You don't indicate what you would do with your time if you don't go." That is not a reason to take on the huge burden of law school. Remember: if you decide to do something else for the next few years, you can always go to law school after that, but if you go to law school now, you can never take the decision back. As a general rule, the classmates of mine who had waited a few years after college before going to law school tended to give off a vibe of being better equipped to handle law school than the average law student.
"Go sit in on a few law classes. See if you like the socratic method." Very few people "like" the Socratic method. People put up with the Socratic method. If you want to be a lawyer, it's worth tolerating the teaching style no matter how excruciating it might be for your first year. (You'll stop caring about it after that.) Conversely, if you happen to love the Socratic method, that's not a major reason to want to go to law school. You go to law school to become a lawyer, not to have fun in class.
"So, go to law school. You'll enjoy it." If you do end up going to law school, I urge you to save this particular response so that you can re-read it after you're done with your first year and have a good laugh.
Full disclosure: I went to a top 14 law school ("top 10" is meaningless since that group of schools changes from year to year). Be suspicious of those in this thread who don't specify their history with law school. Feel free to MefiMail me if you're interested in more info.
Finally, realize that everyone answering this is severely limited by not knowing you as a person. If you happen to know anyone who's been to law school, track them down and tell them you'd like to get lunch and hear what they have to say about this decision. Ask them to be "brutally honest." Put more stock in what they tell you than any of the answers in this thread. (There are people I know who I could tell you instantly that they should not go to law school, even if they have the academic aptitude for it. I could make that snap judgment in one second. There's no way for me to know whether you're one of those people.)
posted by Jaltcoh at 2:36 PM on March 23, 2008
That sounds like the kind of thing someone who should not go to law school would say. Given the cost of law school, it makes no sense to go just for the sake of having something to do.
There's lots of good advice in this thread. But there's also some really bad advice, like:
"Law school, by all accounts, is intense, and an intense experience will kick you into finding what you want." No, do not go to law school to have an "intense experience." It's not a finding-yourself thing like college.
"Yes, go. You don't indicate what you would do with your time if you don't go." That is not a reason to take on the huge burden of law school. Remember: if you decide to do something else for the next few years, you can always go to law school after that, but if you go to law school now, you can never take the decision back. As a general rule, the classmates of mine who had waited a few years after college before going to law school tended to give off a vibe of being better equipped to handle law school than the average law student.
"Go sit in on a few law classes. See if you like the socratic method." Very few people "like" the Socratic method. People put up with the Socratic method. If you want to be a lawyer, it's worth tolerating the teaching style no matter how excruciating it might be for your first year. (You'll stop caring about it after that.) Conversely, if you happen to love the Socratic method, that's not a major reason to want to go to law school. You go to law school to become a lawyer, not to have fun in class.
"So, go to law school. You'll enjoy it." If you do end up going to law school, I urge you to save this particular response so that you can re-read it after you're done with your first year and have a good laugh.
Full disclosure: I went to a top 14 law school ("top 10" is meaningless since that group of schools changes from year to year). Be suspicious of those in this thread who don't specify their history with law school. Feel free to MefiMail me if you're interested in more info.
Finally, realize that everyone answering this is severely limited by not knowing you as a person. If you happen to know anyone who's been to law school, track them down and tell them you'd like to get lunch and hear what they have to say about this decision. Ask them to be "brutally honest." Put more stock in what they tell you than any of the answers in this thread. (There are people I know who I could tell you instantly that they should not go to law school, even if they have the academic aptitude for it. I could make that snap judgment in one second. There's no way for me to know whether you're one of those people.)
posted by Jaltcoh at 2:36 PM on March 23, 2008
You must have thought about this when you applied, or when you prepped for the LSAT's... Are you just getting cold feet now that you have to commit?
I understand the basic tendency, feeling drawn to multiple things and feeling like you'd be equally suitable and equally interested in many of them. But as you imply yourself, really excelling at something is not a question of the capacities you have at the beginning, but much more to do with what you learn and hone as you are educated, practice and gain experience in whatever area you choose. So choosing something is important. But it is also important that you choose something you do want to excel at.
When I went through this, I just wrote a big list out of all the "maybes", even the really random or passing interest type ones, and then went through the pros and cons of each of them, considered in the long term and in the short term:
How long does it take to get somewhere with it,
how much crossover freedom is there once you are established,
what are the norms (work hrs, attire, etc) of the profession,
how risky is it / how much guarantee that you'll be successful,
how much do you enjoy the training,
how much do you enjoy the work itself,
what difference will it make to the world / etc,
and so on...
Law school was on the table for me, but I realized by the end that it was much more the academic aspect of law than the actual practice of it that I found interesting, and that "philosophy of law" was something I could at least potentially find room to study in a philosophy program, which incorporated other interests, wasn't as stressful, and would never require me buying super expensive suits and uncomfortable shoes. The down side of academics is it doesn't bring in much money and you have to hang out with other dowdy, unhip, blackberryless people. Not much of a down side by my standards, so, here I am in a PhD program instead.
But if you like being a "mover & shaker", want smart but not ivory towerish, overly speculative, attitudes, and aren't worried about the debt, then it seems to me that it's time to get things in gear. A law degree is a great asset; it will be an enormous amount of work, but if you're ready for the challenge and don't have other things you're still holding on to, then you should embrace it wholeheartedly. Just don't go in hesitantly. If you decide to go to law school, make the next three years all about law school.
posted by mdn at 3:35 PM on March 23, 2008
I understand the basic tendency, feeling drawn to multiple things and feeling like you'd be equally suitable and equally interested in many of them. But as you imply yourself, really excelling at something is not a question of the capacities you have at the beginning, but much more to do with what you learn and hone as you are educated, practice and gain experience in whatever area you choose. So choosing something is important. But it is also important that you choose something you do want to excel at.
When I went through this, I just wrote a big list out of all the "maybes", even the really random or passing interest type ones, and then went through the pros and cons of each of them, considered in the long term and in the short term:
How long does it take to get somewhere with it,
how much crossover freedom is there once you are established,
what are the norms (work hrs, attire, etc) of the profession,
how risky is it / how much guarantee that you'll be successful,
how much do you enjoy the training,
how much do you enjoy the work itself,
what difference will it make to the world / etc,
and so on...
Law school was on the table for me, but I realized by the end that it was much more the academic aspect of law than the actual practice of it that I found interesting, and that "philosophy of law" was something I could at least potentially find room to study in a philosophy program, which incorporated other interests, wasn't as stressful, and would never require me buying super expensive suits and uncomfortable shoes. The down side of academics is it doesn't bring in much money and you have to hang out with other dowdy, unhip, blackberryless people. Not much of a down side by my standards, so, here I am in a PhD program instead.
But if you like being a "mover & shaker", want smart but not ivory towerish, overly speculative, attitudes, and aren't worried about the debt, then it seems to me that it's time to get things in gear. A law degree is a great asset; it will be an enormous amount of work, but if you're ready for the challenge and don't have other things you're still holding on to, then you should embrace it wholeheartedly. Just don't go in hesitantly. If you decide to go to law school, make the next three years all about law school.
posted by mdn at 3:35 PM on March 23, 2008
Speaking as someone currently in the midst of 1L misery at a top 20 law school, I can tell you I sure as hell wouldn't be putting myself through all this if I didn't want to be a lawyer.
Don't get me wrong, I love my classes and the intelligent discourse and all that, but I spend close to every minute I'm awake either in class or preparing for class. Add to that the immense fatigue of maintaining that schedule for nine months, the insane competition to do well given the current market, and the crippling self-doubt of being in the middle of the pack for the first time in your life.
Law school is really, really hard if you take it seriously - and if you're not going to take it seriously, why go? You could have a whole lot more fun - on almost anything else - with the 100K you'd spend on school.
posted by non sum qualis eram at 4:54 PM on March 23, 2008
Don't get me wrong, I love my classes and the intelligent discourse and all that, but I spend close to every minute I'm awake either in class or preparing for class. Add to that the immense fatigue of maintaining that schedule for nine months, the insane competition to do well given the current market, and the crippling self-doubt of being in the middle of the pack for the first time in your life.
Law school is really, really hard if you take it seriously - and if you're not going to take it seriously, why go? You could have a whole lot more fun - on almost anything else - with the 100K you'd spend on school.
posted by non sum qualis eram at 4:54 PM on March 23, 2008
Just chiming in as another law school grad who did not want to be a lawyer when I decided to law to law school. Or when I graduated. In fact, I have never felt the burning desire to be a lawyer and even now that I do practice law 60-70 hours a week, I'm still pretty "meh" about being a lawyer. I like the legal problem-solving, the wins, the prestige, and the money, but I am as enthused about it all as your local banker, CPA, admin assistant is about his/her job. Justice is no more important to me these days than "fairness" was when I was younger. So you don't need to want to practice law.
More importantly, as others have noted, practicing law is only one option. A good law school will teach you to read, to think, and (to a lesser extent) to present your thoughts. That's a foundation on which you can build nearly anything.
law school is hard, but so is practicing law. So is life. Might as well challenge yourself.
posted by Jezebella at 7:24 PM on March 23, 2008
More importantly, as others have noted, practicing law is only one option. A good law school will teach you to read, to think, and (to a lesser extent) to present your thoughts. That's a foundation on which you can build nearly anything.
law school is hard, but so is practicing law. So is life. Might as well challenge yourself.
posted by Jezebella at 7:24 PM on March 23, 2008
As someone who went to graduate school (not law school) for lack of a better option, I say don't do it!!!
I know a number of very unhappy recent graduates. There are too many JDs for the number of jobs. Plus, unless you can get your education financed you will be burdened by the outrageous loans you will have to take out. Listen, I know someone who graduated with $150k in loans. Her first job paid the princely sum of $32k. No doubt her loans went way up from there because she was in forbearance for a long time. She's managing right now but she has been extremely unhappy in the profession. I know of other folks who've had a hard time too.
Nothing wrong with law per se, but I have heard from a couple of career counselors that there is a high level of dissatisfaction in the career, which suggests to me that it doesn't suit everyone.
posted by mintchip at 9:40 PM on March 23, 2008
I know a number of very unhappy recent graduates. There are too many JDs for the number of jobs. Plus, unless you can get your education financed you will be burdened by the outrageous loans you will have to take out. Listen, I know someone who graduated with $150k in loans. Her first job paid the princely sum of $32k. No doubt her loans went way up from there because she was in forbearance for a long time. She's managing right now but she has been extremely unhappy in the profession. I know of other folks who've had a hard time too.
Nothing wrong with law per se, but I have heard from a couple of career counselors that there is a high level of dissatisfaction in the career, which suggests to me that it doesn't suit everyone.
posted by mintchip at 9:40 PM on March 23, 2008
no
Agreed. There are a lot of ways to find oneself. Few are as time consuming or costly as law school. If you have a full ride or rich and generous parents and you're willing to invest 3 years of your life on what, as you seem to describe it, amounts to a crap shoot, maybe think about it. Your friends and relatives who have never been to grad school might be impressed.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 11:43 PM on March 23, 2008
Agreed. There are a lot of ways to find oneself. Few are as time consuming or costly as law school. If you have a full ride or rich and generous parents and you're willing to invest 3 years of your life on what, as you seem to describe it, amounts to a crap shoot, maybe think about it. Your friends and relatives who have never been to grad school might be impressed.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 11:43 PM on March 23, 2008
Defer for one year (most schools will let you do this) and spend the next several months answering the question of whether you think you might like being a lawyer. Work for a big law firm for a few months as a legal assistant or paralegal and try to go to as many case team meetings as you can to see what sorts of work lawyers actually do and whether you think you'd like it. Then try working for a solo practitioner if you can, as well as for a legal aid group if you are interested in that work.
I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about whether or not you will like law school. Law school lasts only three years, but it's nothing like practicing law. Most schools are all theory and little practice, whereas legal work is all practice all the time. To succeed you need to like law school well enough to do well in it, I suppose, but I don't think there's any way you could predict in any accurate way how well you'll do at your top 10 school before you get there.
I'm at a big firm, and it's not for everyone. A few people that I started with are still here and are happy, but the large majority have gone elsewhere and many have left the law altogether. The market is also now alot tougher out there than it was when I graduated. Recognize that if you will need to take out loans, then those loans will tie you to your job, which you may hate, for a significant period of time. That's why I suggest deferring and getting close to people whose jobs you might have in 3 years if you pursued this trek. If you don't, you may get lucky, but from personal experience I'd say the odds aren't really in your favor.
posted by onlyconnect at 12:18 PM on March 24, 2008
I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about whether or not you will like law school. Law school lasts only three years, but it's nothing like practicing law. Most schools are all theory and little practice, whereas legal work is all practice all the time. To succeed you need to like law school well enough to do well in it, I suppose, but I don't think there's any way you could predict in any accurate way how well you'll do at your top 10 school before you get there.
I'm at a big firm, and it's not for everyone. A few people that I started with are still here and are happy, but the large majority have gone elsewhere and many have left the law altogether. The market is also now alot tougher out there than it was when I graduated. Recognize that if you will need to take out loans, then those loans will tie you to your job, which you may hate, for a significant period of time. That's why I suggest deferring and getting close to people whose jobs you might have in 3 years if you pursued this trek. If you don't, you may get lucky, but from personal experience I'd say the odds aren't really in your favor.
posted by onlyconnect at 12:18 PM on March 24, 2008
I got slammed for inaccurate advice, but I speak from experience. I work in a field that is a second career for most people, and some of my colleagues are law school dropouts and former lawyers. They don't speak well of their experience at all.
Many of the lawyers I know socially are nice people who want to be good, but most of them are very apologetic when someone asks, "What do you do?" at parties.
Well, I fight against dying cancer patients who want to sue their former employers for exposing them to asbestos, but I'm really interested in animal rights law. I litigate against employees who want to unionize their workplace, but I'm passionate about prisoners' rights. Those are the worst case scenarios.
Do you really want to be one of those people? Do you want to fall into moral grey areas because you have to pay off your student loans?
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 10:22 PM on March 24, 2008
Many of the lawyers I know socially are nice people who want to be good, but most of them are very apologetic when someone asks, "What do you do?" at parties.
Well, I fight against dying cancer patients who want to sue their former employers for exposing them to asbestos, but I'm really interested in animal rights law. I litigate against employees who want to unionize their workplace, but I'm passionate about prisoners' rights. Those are the worst case scenarios.
Do you really want to be one of those people? Do you want to fall into moral grey areas because you have to pay off your student loans?
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 10:22 PM on March 24, 2008
It's certainly true that people who dropped out of legal practice generally don't speak well of it. And many aren't proud of it because of how lawyers are perceived, or because they practice a law that's different than their ideal. And the worst case scenarios are, well, worst case.
You ask, "Do you really want to be one of those people?" Presumably not. But there are others. And I'd contrast what you just wrote with what you originally wrote, which may have been intended as a parody. But in case not:
"Most of the people you'll meet in law school will be disgusting degenerates, and the ones who aren't horrible human beings are married and don't have time to make new friends. You won't make good contacts."
[Inaccurate, unless you have a distinctive and kinda boring understanding of disgusting degeneracy. But your claim to speak from experience is duly noted.]
"You'll have to take a horrible job in corporate law to work off your student loans. It will kill your soul."
[Inaccurate, though many do take such jobs; it is quite possible to do otherwise, and to take a more fulfilling job, especially with public interest loan forgiveness programs. Many feel "forced" to do otherwise mainly because of opportunity costs of passing up the big bucks, not because they are otherwise required.]
"Law school really does change your DNA. It turns you into someone disgusting. Go for an MFA or something."
[This sorely tempts me to note that Hitler was a painter, but happily I have much more self-control.]
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 9:00 PM on March 26, 2008
You ask, "Do you really want to be one of those people?" Presumably not. But there are others. And I'd contrast what you just wrote with what you originally wrote, which may have been intended as a parody. But in case not:
"Most of the people you'll meet in law school will be disgusting degenerates, and the ones who aren't horrible human beings are married and don't have time to make new friends. You won't make good contacts."
[Inaccurate, unless you have a distinctive and kinda boring understanding of disgusting degeneracy. But your claim to speak from experience is duly noted.]
"You'll have to take a horrible job in corporate law to work off your student loans. It will kill your soul."
[Inaccurate, though many do take such jobs; it is quite possible to do otherwise, and to take a more fulfilling job, especially with public interest loan forgiveness programs. Many feel "forced" to do otherwise mainly because of opportunity costs of passing up the big bucks, not because they are otherwise required.]
"Law school really does change your DNA. It turns you into someone disgusting. Go for an MFA or something."
[This sorely tempts me to note that Hitler was a painter, but happily I have much more self-control.]
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 9:00 PM on March 26, 2008
"I got slammed for inaccurate advice, but I speak from experience. I work in a field that is a second career for most people, and some of my colleagues are law school dropouts and former lawyers. They don't speak well of their experience at all."
Wait, wait, wait. Your "experience" consists entirely of what some other people told you about a profession they quit? With the glut of lawyers and law students floating around AskMe, what are you even doing in this thread?
"Do you want to fall into moral grey areas because you have to pay off your student loans?"
There's nothing "moral[ly] grey" about representing the less sympathetic side of a sympathetic issue. Lots of people don't want to do it, but not wanting to do something doesn't make it immoral or unethical. The legal and justice systems would fall apart if it weren't for the people representing the "other" side.
And, for what it's worth, nobody HAS TO take a high paying job to pay off their loans. I have six-figures in undergrad and law school loans (and not just barely six-figures either), and I plan on working for a prosecutor's office after I pass the bar. That's going to require two things:
1) That I live within my means (something many people these days are loathe to do), and
2) That I take advantage of forgiveness and extension programs to allow me to do (1).
Unless you're getting your law school loans from Vinnie the Shark, you have a lot of flexibility in paying them back. Yes, faster is better for you, but nobody has to take some high-paying BigLaw job just because they took out loans.
The doom and gloom is laughable.
But... I said "no" earlier because it's not something worth going through unless you really want to be a lawyer.
Also, pay no attention to the "interesting" opinion up-thread that a top 10 law degree is "never" a bad idea (financially or otherwise). There are a whole host of jobs for which a law degree is useless and another glut of them for which a law degree will make you look terribly over-qualified (even more so if it's a big name school), and, for that matter, the poster exaggerated the pay-scale difference for the non-law-related jobs and completely neglected to mention that for most of them, all law degrees are essentially the same, whether you're at the #1 school or or some Tier 3 school.
posted by toomuchpete at 9:39 AM on March 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wait, wait, wait. Your "experience" consists entirely of what some other people told you about a profession they quit? With the glut of lawyers and law students floating around AskMe, what are you even doing in this thread?
"Do you want to fall into moral grey areas because you have to pay off your student loans?"
There's nothing "moral[ly] grey" about representing the less sympathetic side of a sympathetic issue. Lots of people don't want to do it, but not wanting to do something doesn't make it immoral or unethical. The legal and justice systems would fall apart if it weren't for the people representing the "other" side.
And, for what it's worth, nobody HAS TO take a high paying job to pay off their loans. I have six-figures in undergrad and law school loans (and not just barely six-figures either), and I plan on working for a prosecutor's office after I pass the bar. That's going to require two things:
1) That I live within my means (something many people these days are loathe to do), and
2) That I take advantage of forgiveness and extension programs to allow me to do (1).
Unless you're getting your law school loans from Vinnie the Shark, you have a lot of flexibility in paying them back. Yes, faster is better for you, but nobody has to take some high-paying BigLaw job just because they took out loans.
The doom and gloom is laughable.
But... I said "no" earlier because it's not something worth going through unless you really want to be a lawyer.
Also, pay no attention to the "interesting" opinion up-thread that a top 10 law degree is "never" a bad idea (financially or otherwise). There are a whole host of jobs for which a law degree is useless and another glut of them for which a law degree will make you look terribly over-qualified (even more so if it's a big name school), and, for that matter, the poster exaggerated the pay-scale difference for the non-law-related jobs and completely neglected to mention that for most of them, all law degrees are essentially the same, whether you're at the #1 school or or some Tier 3 school.
posted by toomuchpete at 9:39 AM on March 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Reading all the talk about how hard law school is puzzles me. Yes, it is challenging; but the claims that "I spend all my waking hours" preparing for it are surprising. I knew people at my law school (a pretty decent one) who didn't work very hard at all and graduated with no problem. These were not geniuses; they just had a relaxed attitude about it. Don't assume that law school will be three years of intellectual boot camp. It's only that way if refuse to let go of the dramatic "Paper Chase" mentality.
A good Ph.D. program, in any discipline, is likely to be more intense and overwhelming than even the top law schools.
So, even if you're not terribly committed to law practice, you can make it through the J.D. program without any more exertion than undergrad required. The rigor of law school should not concern you. It's the financial burdens you need to be most wary of, along with the lifelong albatross that your law degree will become, causing you to constantly be asked, "Why aren't you practicing law?"
posted by jayder at 11:43 AM on April 12, 2008
A good Ph.D. program, in any discipline, is likely to be more intense and overwhelming than even the top law schools.
So, even if you're not terribly committed to law practice, you can make it through the J.D. program without any more exertion than undergrad required. The rigor of law school should not concern you. It's the financial burdens you need to be most wary of, along with the lifelong albatross that your law degree will become, causing you to constantly be asked, "Why aren't you practicing law?"
posted by jayder at 11:43 AM on April 12, 2008
if you care about getting good enough grades to get a job that will actually pay more than a non-legal job, rather than "making it through the program," that's where the stress and commitment come in, sorry to say.
I went to a non-top-ten school (though still fairly highly ranked) and there were people toward the bottom of my class who got jobs at big firms with stratospheric starting salaries. So I would say that if this poster is accepted to a top-ten law school, there will be lucrative options no matter where he/she finishes in the class. (Though perhaps the market is different these days for new attorneys.)
posted by jayder at 10:28 AM on April 13, 2008
I went to a non-top-ten school (though still fairly highly ranked) and there were people toward the bottom of my class who got jobs at big firms with stratospheric starting salaries. So I would say that if this poster is accepted to a top-ten law school, there will be lucrative options no matter where he/she finishes in the class. (Though perhaps the market is different these days for new attorneys.)
posted by jayder at 10:28 AM on April 13, 2008
jayder, I'm not sure how long ago you graduated, but from what I hear conditions for graduating law students now are alot less filled with potential than they were five or ten or even fifteen years ago. Lots of lawyers now, from decent schools, are getting trapped in contract attorney work, which is often not personally fulfilling and often doesn't lead to any better opportunities. If someone is graduating now at the bottom of their class at a middling law school and getting a cushy job at a top firm, I'd be interested to know what connections they have.
posted by onlyconnect at 8:13 PM on April 21, 2008
posted by onlyconnect at 8:13 PM on April 21, 2008
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