Friends breaking up--do I really have to choose?
March 17, 2008 6:51 AM Subscribe
Friends breaking up--do I really have to choose?
My cousin Mike is three years younger than me. Our moms were twins, so we were pretty close growing up, until his parents died in a car crash and went to live with his dad's mother. She thought I was a bad influence (I probably was) and we didn't see much of each other for a while. Now I'm 30, he's 27. About two years ago, he got engaged, and we started hanging out more. I became really good friends with his fiancee Melanie, and the three of us spent a lot of time together. I was a groomsman in their wedding.
Now, six months into the marriage, Melanie has left. There was no infidelity. She really never should have married him in the first place, as she had unresolved issues that became bigger over time. Basically she realized that Mike is just not the one for her. Mike is crushed, and heart-broken. To further complicate matters, Melanie is now dating someone new, a guy named Paul, whom she insists she did not leave Mike for.
I didn't talk to Melanie at all after the breakup. She emailed me, and I emailed back saying I hoped we could be friends one day, but job one for me was supporting Mike. Mike kept telling me that Melanie would say to him that she thought I hated her, and that I should call her and let her know that I didn't hate her. He talked a lot about how much my friendship meant to her, and that he hoped Melanie and I would still be friends.
Last week, about a month after the break-up, I went for dinner with Melanie, then a few nights later we hung out again, this time I went for drinks with Melanie and Paul. I told Mike about it, and he seemed fine. I didn't mention the part that Paul was with us for drinks. I was unsure whether or not to tell him at all about hanging out with Melanie, but he said he wanted me to be straight with him. Melanie and Mike are having very little contact, so he said he wouldn't ask any questions about her.
Melanie and Paul and I went to a show last night, which Melanie invited me to, I hadn't even known it was happening, and I casually mentioned it on IM to Mike after. He called me on the phone, and asked me a bunch of questions, including "Was Paul there?" I couldn't lie to him, so I just said "Do you really want to know?" He said that he just felt crappy, like Melanie is out enjoying her rocking new life, while he sits at home feeling miserable. He said that the whole thing with me hanging out with Melanie was "eating away at him". His aunt, who has been a big support to him through this is telling him to tell me to "choose", although I know that he never would do that, even if that's really what he wanted, to just tell me not to see her.
Further complicating matters is Mike has asked me to move in with him. I'm moving out of my current place soon, and we had planned to be roommates. But last night he said he "wasn't sure how it would work" now that I was hanging out with Melanie.
I just feel like I've really fucked up. I wanted to be Mike's go-to guy if he needed someone during this breakup, and I feel like that's maybe gone. What really sucks is I'm quite close with Melanie, and have really missed her over the last month. Also, Paul has turned out to be a great guy, and hanging out with the two of them is a lot of fun.
I guess I should have realized that although Mike was telling me he wanted Melanie and I to still be friends, that he didn't really mean it, or didn't realize how much it would bother him. Was I a total asshole to even see her at all? Is there any way around cutting her out completely, at least on a temporary basis? I'm pretty sure that the consensus from out there will be "don't hang out with her for a while"; I'm just wondering if anyone has any whiz-bang solution to this mess that I'm not seeing.
My cousin Mike is three years younger than me. Our moms were twins, so we were pretty close growing up, until his parents died in a car crash and went to live with his dad's mother. She thought I was a bad influence (I probably was) and we didn't see much of each other for a while. Now I'm 30, he's 27. About two years ago, he got engaged, and we started hanging out more. I became really good friends with his fiancee Melanie, and the three of us spent a lot of time together. I was a groomsman in their wedding.
Now, six months into the marriage, Melanie has left. There was no infidelity. She really never should have married him in the first place, as she had unresolved issues that became bigger over time. Basically she realized that Mike is just not the one for her. Mike is crushed, and heart-broken. To further complicate matters, Melanie is now dating someone new, a guy named Paul, whom she insists she did not leave Mike for.
I didn't talk to Melanie at all after the breakup. She emailed me, and I emailed back saying I hoped we could be friends one day, but job one for me was supporting Mike. Mike kept telling me that Melanie would say to him that she thought I hated her, and that I should call her and let her know that I didn't hate her. He talked a lot about how much my friendship meant to her, and that he hoped Melanie and I would still be friends.
Last week, about a month after the break-up, I went for dinner with Melanie, then a few nights later we hung out again, this time I went for drinks with Melanie and Paul. I told Mike about it, and he seemed fine. I didn't mention the part that Paul was with us for drinks. I was unsure whether or not to tell him at all about hanging out with Melanie, but he said he wanted me to be straight with him. Melanie and Mike are having very little contact, so he said he wouldn't ask any questions about her.
Melanie and Paul and I went to a show last night, which Melanie invited me to, I hadn't even known it was happening, and I casually mentioned it on IM to Mike after. He called me on the phone, and asked me a bunch of questions, including "Was Paul there?" I couldn't lie to him, so I just said "Do you really want to know?" He said that he just felt crappy, like Melanie is out enjoying her rocking new life, while he sits at home feeling miserable. He said that the whole thing with me hanging out with Melanie was "eating away at him". His aunt, who has been a big support to him through this is telling him to tell me to "choose", although I know that he never would do that, even if that's really what he wanted, to just tell me not to see her.
Further complicating matters is Mike has asked me to move in with him. I'm moving out of my current place soon, and we had planned to be roommates. But last night he said he "wasn't sure how it would work" now that I was hanging out with Melanie.
I just feel like I've really fucked up. I wanted to be Mike's go-to guy if he needed someone during this breakup, and I feel like that's maybe gone. What really sucks is I'm quite close with Melanie, and have really missed her over the last month. Also, Paul has turned out to be a great guy, and hanging out with the two of them is a lot of fun.
I guess I should have realized that although Mike was telling me he wanted Melanie and I to still be friends, that he didn't really mean it, or didn't realize how much it would bother him. Was I a total asshole to even see her at all? Is there any way around cutting her out completely, at least on a temporary basis? I'm pretty sure that the consensus from out there will be "don't hang out with her for a while"; I'm just wondering if anyone has any whiz-bang solution to this mess that I'm not seeing.
Things of this nature can be handled gracefully, if you decide upfront not to share the details of your friendships between parties. I was in a wedding about two years ago that broke off spectacularly last year, and the first thing I told myself and both parties was, I think I can be there for both people, but I'm not telling either anything about the other. And when one called me looking for juice, I offered support but no details. That said, I'm probably much closer now with one (the one whose side I stood on at the wedding) than I am with the other. Unfortunately, it might be a little late for you- you've already told Mike about hanging out with Melanie on several occasions. Is it possible for you to sit down with Mike, explain to him that you feel you can be there for both him and Melanie, and set up some guidelines on how to handle this? If you can't sit down with him, you may need to make the executive decision to stop telling him so much.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:17 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:17 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
It sounds like Mike needs his social circle to comprise the people who make him feel happy and loved. Your hanging out with Melanie (and Paul) is going to interfere with that, because he's going to know that you're off having fun with someone who, for whatever reason, under whatever circumstances, broke his heart. That's not going to make him feel comfortable. Tell Melanie you have to keep it to a dull roar for a bit. Feel free to communicate with her via email, phone, and whatever else, but just lay off the in-person socializing for a bit. Let Melanie know that it's nothing against her - it's just that you need to help out your friend Mike. And obviously let Mike know that you're going to focus on his needs, since he's obviously going through a rough time.
Should you decide to live with Mike, there may not be a clear endpoint for when you can normalize your relationship with Melanie. It can't possibly last forever - the dust will settle eventually - but this is a sacrifice you may need to make for the moment, if Mike is as close to you as you say, and if Melanie is doing as well as you imply. She has Paul - Mike needs you.
I might be reading way too much into things, but it sounds like Mike is hurting more than he's letting on. However short-lived the marriage, they WERE married, and just a month after it, Melanie started steadily dating someone new. That's going to hurt. I don't know or care if Melanie "left Mike for Paul" or just came across this guy after the dissolution of the marriage was already underway, but Mike has a legitimate reason to feel awkward about it. Also, if his new idea for a roommate, after his wife leaves him, is you, then it sounds like you ought to stay in his corner for a bit.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:27 AM on March 17, 2008
Should you decide to live with Mike, there may not be a clear endpoint for when you can normalize your relationship with Melanie. It can't possibly last forever - the dust will settle eventually - but this is a sacrifice you may need to make for the moment, if Mike is as close to you as you say, and if Melanie is doing as well as you imply. She has Paul - Mike needs you.
I might be reading way too much into things, but it sounds like Mike is hurting more than he's letting on. However short-lived the marriage, they WERE married, and just a month after it, Melanie started steadily dating someone new. That's going to hurt. I don't know or care if Melanie "left Mike for Paul" or just came across this guy after the dissolution of the marriage was already underway, but Mike has a legitimate reason to feel awkward about it. Also, if his new idea for a roommate, after his wife leaves him, is you, then it sounds like you ought to stay in his corner for a bit.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:27 AM on March 17, 2008
Mike isn't getting over it. He is instead obsessing and indulging his misery. Even if you decide to ditch Melanie, I would seriously consider whether I moved in with Mike. You can't save him or fix him. You can't make his life any better. That's up to him.
Being "there for someone" doesn't mean supporting them when they behave irresponsibly. Mike should acknowledge he can't handle any Melany info and stop asking. If he wants to hang out you should give him first dibs, but don't throw away friendships trying to make him happy.
Further, try to avoid generally uniformed Jacqueline-esq standards judgments about who is good and who is bad and focus on who you are comfortable around. We have an early warning system with regard to people who don't make healthy choices... its called being uncomfortable.
posted by ewkpates at 7:29 AM on March 17, 2008
Being "there for someone" doesn't mean supporting them when they behave irresponsibly. Mike should acknowledge he can't handle any Melany info and stop asking. If he wants to hang out you should give him first dibs, but don't throw away friendships trying to make him happy.
Further, try to avoid generally uniformed Jacqueline-esq standards judgments about who is good and who is bad and focus on who you are comfortable around. We have an early warning system with regard to people who don't make healthy choices... its called being uncomfortable.
posted by ewkpates at 7:29 AM on March 17, 2008
It sounds like both Mike and you were unrealistic about what the break-up would mean for him emotionally. It sucks like almost nothing else in adult life to have someone divorce you and take up with someone else, no matter how much they try to play the "it's not you it's me" schtick. If you really want to "be there" for him you might need to cool it with Melanie and her super-groovy new dude for a while. (And that "for a while" might last quite a while.) Also, you know, on some level she is the "offending party," in that she bailed only six months into a marriage and immediately started a serious relationship with someone else (that's really pretty shitty in my book), so I have a feeling few people in this thread will have much sympathy with your wanting to stay in close contact with her. She made her proverbial bed.
Short answer to your post title: Yes, unfortunately, often you do have to choose, even when the former couple both claim you don't. You weren't an asshole to believe them that you could avoid choosing between them, though you were probably naive. I think possibly you would be an asshole to keep on playing both sides at this point, now that you know what's really up with Mike.
Is Mike the kind of person who would be open to the idea of going to a counselor? Sounds like he has some self-esteem and life-rebuilding issues to work through, which is best done with an uninvolved 3rd party. This is common for people in his situation. And if you go ahead and move in with him now and he doesn't start seeing a counselor, you might become his default recepticle of sadness and complaint, which, as much as you care about your cousin, could be very difficult for you and possibly damaging to your friendship in the long run.
posted by aught at 7:33 AM on March 17, 2008
Short answer to your post title: Yes, unfortunately, often you do have to choose, even when the former couple both claim you don't. You weren't an asshole to believe them that you could avoid choosing between them, though you were probably naive. I think possibly you would be an asshole to keep on playing both sides at this point, now that you know what's really up with Mike.
Is Mike the kind of person who would be open to the idea of going to a counselor? Sounds like he has some self-esteem and life-rebuilding issues to work through, which is best done with an uninvolved 3rd party. This is common for people in his situation. And if you go ahead and move in with him now and he doesn't start seeing a counselor, you might become his default recepticle of sadness and complaint, which, as much as you care about your cousin, could be very difficult for you and possibly damaging to your friendship in the long run.
posted by aught at 7:33 AM on March 17, 2008
do I really have to choose?
Yeah, pretty much. It's too bad, but that's the way it usually turns out. It sounds like Mike is more important to you, so I'd concentrate on him and put Melanie on the back burner for awhile. After enough time passes, Mike will have moved on and you will be able to pursue a friendship with Melanie if you still want to.
posted by languagehat at 7:36 AM on March 17, 2008
Yeah, pretty much. It's too bad, but that's the way it usually turns out. It sounds like Mike is more important to you, so I'd concentrate on him and put Melanie on the back burner for awhile. After enough time passes, Mike will have moved on and you will be able to pursue a friendship with Melanie if you still want to.
posted by languagehat at 7:36 AM on March 17, 2008
Blood is thicker than water.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:40 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 7:40 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
No. You give them both the King Solomon test. Whichever of them is selfish enough to make you choose loses. Mike can ask you to be a little extra sensitive around him for a short time, but he should realize this is a favor he's asking of you, and not something he should have expectations about.
The King Solomon test almost always works, except (ironically) with actual babies.
posted by aswego at 7:53 AM on March 17, 2008
The King Solomon test almost always works, except (ironically) with actual babies.
posted by aswego at 7:53 AM on March 17, 2008
Some years back, I went through an amicable divorce, and I was the dumpee. A lot of friends of my ex and myself did choose sides, even though both my ex and I repeatedly and earnestly urged them not to (oddly enough, I'm still friends with my ex, but most of those people I never hear from).
Mike is in moping mode (as I was for a while) while his ex has quickly moved on (as mine did). It's understandable but it doesn't do any good, and indulging his mopishness by cutting off contact with Melanie and Paul isn't going to help him get over it any sooner—which should be the real goal, IMO.
Admittedly, there's a difference between not indulging his mopishness and rubbing his nose in Melanie's new relationship, and if the two of your are roommates, it'll be harder to avoid the latter. I don't think you need to cut off contact with her, but I do think a combination of tough love towards Mike and discretion about Melanie would be in order.
If you can help Mike get out of his own head a little, that'd do more good than any Melanie-avoidance possibly could.
posted by adamrice at 8:10 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Mike is in moping mode (as I was for a while) while his ex has quickly moved on (as mine did). It's understandable but it doesn't do any good, and indulging his mopishness by cutting off contact with Melanie and Paul isn't going to help him get over it any sooner—which should be the real goal, IMO.
Admittedly, there's a difference between not indulging his mopishness and rubbing his nose in Melanie's new relationship, and if the two of your are roommates, it'll be harder to avoid the latter. I don't think you need to cut off contact with her, but I do think a combination of tough love towards Mike and discretion about Melanie would be in order.
If you can help Mike get out of his own head a little, that'd do more good than any Melanie-avoidance possibly could.
posted by adamrice at 8:10 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Can you possibly go hang out with Melanie without volunteering that information to Mike? You mention seeing her two times and each time it was you who went and told Mike about it, without his asking.
He gave you the indication that it was ok to still be friends with her. That doesn't mean he necessarily wants to hear about you two having fun. And of course he's going to ask you about her if you bring up the fact that you saw her.
I'd say be friends with both of them. But a basic rule right for your dealing with both of them right now is to not talk about the other unless it's on their terms. Mike doesn't sound demanding of you or insistent that you stop being friends with Melanie, but I doubt he's benefiting from your "casually mentioning" her.
Don't lie - that's bad. It just sounds to me like you don't need to lie. You don't need to be friends with her behind his back or anything. Just quit putting Melanie in his face. If, by this point, he asks that you don't hang out with her, then you probably shouldn't for a little while. The damage is done and he's hurting. You can help that by being a friend that reminds him of other things in his life than his new ex-wife. But you and Mike know that your hating or destroying your friendship with Melanie won't help him.
Get less involved with this relationship breakup and more involved with these people as individuals.
posted by dosterm at 8:24 AM on March 17, 2008
He gave you the indication that it was ok to still be friends with her. That doesn't mean he necessarily wants to hear about you two having fun. And of course he's going to ask you about her if you bring up the fact that you saw her.
I'd say be friends with both of them. But a basic rule right for your dealing with both of them right now is to not talk about the other unless it's on their terms. Mike doesn't sound demanding of you or insistent that you stop being friends with Melanie, but I doubt he's benefiting from your "casually mentioning" her.
Don't lie - that's bad. It just sounds to me like you don't need to lie. You don't need to be friends with her behind his back or anything. Just quit putting Melanie in his face. If, by this point, he asks that you don't hang out with her, then you probably shouldn't for a little while. The damage is done and he's hurting. You can help that by being a friend that reminds him of other things in his life than his new ex-wife. But you and Mike know that your hating or destroying your friendship with Melanie won't help him.
Get less involved with this relationship breakup and more involved with these people as individuals.
posted by dosterm at 8:24 AM on March 17, 2008
I have to agree with Ironmouth...
...friends can come and go, blood stays for ever.
posted by photodegas at 8:27 AM on March 17, 2008
...friends can come and go, blood stays for ever.
posted by photodegas at 8:27 AM on March 17, 2008
On the whole apartment thing, it sounds like Mike is manipulating you a bit, without meaning to - if he pulls you away from Melanie, then he gets you and gets back at her in the same breath. Like I say, that doesn't sound like a conscious choice on his part, but, were I you, I'd steer clear of moving in with him unless and until it makes sense for you and it's strictly a positive, friendly arrangement. He's scrambling in every way right now, but it's important for you to maintain a healthy distance; getting embroiled in his understandable pity party would be inviting alot of unnecessary drama into your own life.
Anecdotally, I have a dear friend who is close with an ex-friend of mine - the ex-friend and I severed our relationship years ago because of a pretty ugly personal betrayal - and it took a while for me to reconcile that. Still, she just doesn't mention the ex-friend to me and I don't inquire after her. Her view is that she has no baggage associated with that friend and I think that's fair. Now, we're not talking about a romantic ex in my situation, so YMMV.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 8:28 AM on March 17, 2008
Anecdotally, I have a dear friend who is close with an ex-friend of mine - the ex-friend and I severed our relationship years ago because of a pretty ugly personal betrayal - and it took a while for me to reconcile that. Still, she just doesn't mention the ex-friend to me and I don't inquire after her. Her view is that she has no baggage associated with that friend and I think that's fair. Now, we're not talking about a romantic ex in my situation, so YMMV.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 8:28 AM on March 17, 2008
Slow down a bit. It's only been 6 weeks, and Mike is (understandably) obviously nowhere near over Melanie. Mike just said he didn't want you to cut all ties with Melanie -- obviously going out with her (and her new beau) 3 times a week is a little much for him to handle right now. And since Mike is your cousin as well as your friend, your first loyalty should be to him. There will probably come a time when Mike really won't care that you hang out with Melanie - until then, though, the obvious solution would probably be to rein in your friendship with Melanie a little. I don't think you have to stop talking to her, but maybe cool it on the thrice-weekly get-togethers until Mike is a little better able to deal with it.
posted by boomchicka at 8:33 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by boomchicka at 8:33 AM on March 17, 2008
First off, if I am reading your question correctly they were engaged, she broke up with him a month ago and she is already with another guy? That seems a bit messed up to me, I know I wouldn't be able to get over a relationship that quickly, and I might be a little suspicious of the not leaving for Paul assertion.
That being said you do have to choose unfortunately, and blood is thicker then water you have known this guy your whole life, and he needs you now. What you need to do is be there for him, get him out of the house, and try and help him through the mopey time. Also, were I you I would strongly suggest to him that he cut off all contact to her for a while (let's say a year) as right now she is not good for him at all, and him having constant updates on how much fun she is having without him is going to destroy him inside.
I realize this is difficult, but it's just one of those things. I really think my brother's finance is a wonderful girl and we are pretty good friends, but if they ever broke up (short of him doing something completely uncharacteristic and screwing her over) she would cease to exist as far as I am concerned.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:37 AM on March 17, 2008
That being said you do have to choose unfortunately, and blood is thicker then water you have known this guy your whole life, and he needs you now. What you need to do is be there for him, get him out of the house, and try and help him through the mopey time. Also, were I you I would strongly suggest to him that he cut off all contact to her for a while (let's say a year) as right now she is not good for him at all, and him having constant updates on how much fun she is having without him is going to destroy him inside.
I realize this is difficult, but it's just one of those things. I really think my brother's finance is a wonderful girl and we are pretty good friends, but if they ever broke up (short of him doing something completely uncharacteristic and screwing her over) she would cease to exist as far as I am concerned.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:37 AM on March 17, 2008
I think, when he gets over it, you guys can still make awesome friends and roommates. Blood is indeed thicker than water - ask yourself. Are you really that close with your cousin's dumping, maybe-cheating ex wife, and her new boyfriend? Why? Maybe my notion of family ties is a little conventional, but I love my close cousins and cannot fathom or understand the thought of flying away with their exes on a friendship balloon when what they need is some company and a hug/big clap on the back.
posted by crunch buttsteak at 8:38 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by crunch buttsteak at 8:38 AM on March 17, 2008
I might be a little suspicious of the not leaving for Paul assertion.
Forgot to mention: Of course she left him for Paul; she's just saying she didn't to spare his feelings. Doesn't mean she's a slut or you shouldn't hang out with her, but come on, this is Breakup 101.
posted by languagehat at 9:03 AM on March 17, 2008
Forgot to mention: Of course she left him for Paul; she's just saying she didn't to spare his feelings. Doesn't mean she's a slut or you shouldn't hang out with her, but come on, this is Breakup 101.
posted by languagehat at 9:03 AM on March 17, 2008
Sometimes people say "oh, no, I don't mind that you're friends with my ex," when what they actually mean is "I hate it that you're friends with my ex." And they say "I don't mind," because it sounds like the mature, right thing to say.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 9:13 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 9:13 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
You can't be the go-to guy for him if he feels hes losing out on something. It sounds like he still wants to keep all of the relationships there, but like was said above, is realizing that it's a bit more painful to be around you than he hoped.
He's probably not suggesting that you guys hang out. But to be the go-to guy, you can't allow that to mean you can go out with the ex whenever she invites you. She dumped him, so of course she's going to be more gregarious. You have to hang out with the cousin more. More importantly, you have to make him feel that you are more important to him. That doesn't mean you can't hang with the ex. It means that you can't let him think that you are having all sorts of fun without him and with her. I doubt most people have the strength not to get paranoid about that.
My suggestions on trying to thread this needle:
1) Don't lie to him. Do be straight with him about hanging out with her. He'll become paranoid otherwise.
2) Do make sure that you are around him much more than you are around her.
3) Do make sure that you have more fun with him than you do with her. Make sure that it's impossible for him to imagine you and the ex being closer than he and you.
If you can't ensure all of these, you can't be a real friend in these times, and certainly not a go-to one. Unless he's really strong, the only way to do all three is to put your friendship with the ex on hold.
posted by FuManchu at 9:19 AM on March 17, 2008
He's probably not suggesting that you guys hang out. But to be the go-to guy, you can't allow that to mean you can go out with the ex whenever she invites you. She dumped him, so of course she's going to be more gregarious. You have to hang out with the cousin more. More importantly, you have to make him feel that you are more important to him. That doesn't mean you can't hang with the ex. It means that you can't let him think that you are having all sorts of fun without him and with her. I doubt most people have the strength not to get paranoid about that.
My suggestions on trying to thread this needle:
1) Don't lie to him. Do be straight with him about hanging out with her. He'll become paranoid otherwise.
2) Do make sure that you are around him much more than you are around her.
3) Do make sure that you have more fun with him than you do with her. Make sure that it's impossible for him to imagine you and the ex being closer than he and you.
If you can't ensure all of these, you can't be a real friend in these times, and certainly not a go-to one. Unless he's really strong, the only way to do all three is to put your friendship with the ex on hold.
posted by FuManchu at 9:19 AM on March 17, 2008
Of course she left him for Paul.
Of course. Actually throwing in some judgmental comments about her would probably help him. He's got a right to be angry with her, but apparently doesn't feel that now. Talking some smack about her will help him, I think.
posted by FuManchu at 9:27 AM on March 17, 2008
Of course. Actually throwing in some judgmental comments about her would probably help him. He's got a right to be angry with her, but apparently doesn't feel that now. Talking some smack about her will help him, I think.
posted by FuManchu at 9:27 AM on March 17, 2008
You do have to make a choice - not necessarily between Melanie and Mike, but between being Mike's "go to guy" and hanging out with Melanie and her new boyfriend. Several years ago, I played Mike in this scenario. Several of our mutual friends are still mutual friends, I never asked anyone to choose. However, the people that I remained closest to were those who were most obviously *my* friends. There was a period where I didn't need to see a lot of those people who I knew were hanging out with my ex and her new boyfriend (formerly a very good friend of mine, which complicated things even more). Mike has every right to be upset that his ex-wife has moved on so quickly; if you validate that relationship you won't be "Mike's guy." That's your decision to make, and it's fine if you choose to remain on the fence, but you *will* be telling Mike that you can't support him fully.
posted by Banky_Edwards at 9:27 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by Banky_Edwards at 9:27 AM on March 17, 2008
I don’t think you necessarily have to choose between the two. Blood is important, but so are the individuals underneath any status designation.
I think you have a better chance of preserving both friendships if you avoid moving in with Mike right now. Tell Mike that you're there for him, and that you are not choosing sides, but that he should take some time to focus on himself. Support him, but don't let him wallow.
Is Mike going to feel a lot better if you stop being friends with Melanie? Probably not; focusing on your relationship with Melanie is allowing Mike to channel anti-Melanie feelings into a different outlet, but those feelings aren't going to disappear if you cut Melanie out of your life.
Consider the possibility that you might come to resent Mike if you break off your friendship with Melanie -- in which case you would lose not one, but two friendships.
It is possible for people to get along after messy breakups. You can help to facilitate this process, but you don’t need to become a pawn. You're not a villain, and you don't need to feel like one.
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 9:36 AM on March 17, 2008
I think you have a better chance of preserving both friendships if you avoid moving in with Mike right now. Tell Mike that you're there for him, and that you are not choosing sides, but that he should take some time to focus on himself. Support him, but don't let him wallow.
Is Mike going to feel a lot better if you stop being friends with Melanie? Probably not; focusing on your relationship with Melanie is allowing Mike to channel anti-Melanie feelings into a different outlet, but those feelings aren't going to disappear if you cut Melanie out of your life.
Consider the possibility that you might come to resent Mike if you break off your friendship with Melanie -- in which case you would lose not one, but two friendships.
It is possible for people to get along after messy breakups. You can help to facilitate this process, but you don’t need to become a pawn. You're not a villain, and you don't need to feel like one.
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 9:36 AM on March 17, 2008
Back away from Melanie and play support for cousin Mike. Twenty years from now, what are the odds you'll still know Melanie? Mike will be your cousin for the rest of your life. Nurture and support that relationship.
posted by browse at 9:37 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by browse at 9:37 AM on March 17, 2008
Also, your standards for whether to be friends with someone should include whether they are good people not just whether they are nice to you or fun to be with. It sounds like maybe Melanie is not a good person.
Wow, don't you think this is a little judgemental? We don't really know much about Melanie here besides the bare outlines of the case that OP has given us. I don't think we know enough about her motivations for breaking up with Mike to decide whether she is a "good person" or not.
posted by peacheater at 10:17 AM on March 17, 2008
Wow, don't you think this is a little judgemental? We don't really know much about Melanie here besides the bare outlines of the case that OP has given us. I don't think we know enough about her motivations for breaking up with Mike to decide whether she is a "good person" or not.
posted by peacheater at 10:17 AM on March 17, 2008
Stopped reading at that point, but I'm in agreement with adamrice.
I remain good friends with both parties who broke up after being engaged, and who had lived together for years. Both have since married other people, and are much happier for having found somebody else.
From what you have written I don't conclude that Melanie is someway at fault, as some other posters have suggested. When a relationship dies there doesn't necessarily have to be a party at fault, and that one person seems to be doing better than the other may simply indicate—amongst a variety of other factors—that one party had already resigned themselves to the relationship disintegrating.
FWIW I remain good friends with a girl I went out with for four years—and her infidelity played a part in that breakup—and I am grateful that our friends didn't see fit to punish her for something that wasn't their business, or conclude that as the 'wronged party' I would benefit from them publicly choosing to 'side' with me.
I know that such an approach won't appeal to everybody. But it has worked well for me and my group of friends.
posted by puffmoike at 11:26 AM on March 17, 2008
I remain good friends with both parties who broke up after being engaged, and who had lived together for years. Both have since married other people, and are much happier for having found somebody else.
From what you have written I don't conclude that Melanie is someway at fault, as some other posters have suggested. When a relationship dies there doesn't necessarily have to be a party at fault, and that one person seems to be doing better than the other may simply indicate—amongst a variety of other factors—that one party had already resigned themselves to the relationship disintegrating.
FWIW I remain good friends with a girl I went out with for four years—and her infidelity played a part in that breakup—and I am grateful that our friends didn't see fit to punish her for something that wasn't their business, or conclude that as the 'wronged party' I would benefit from them publicly choosing to 'side' with me.
I know that such an approach won't appeal to everybody. But it has worked well for me and my group of friends.
posted by puffmoike at 11:26 AM on March 17, 2008
Many break-ups require some cooling off time. During that cooldown, the parties concerned can be a bit demanding and unreasonable. Do you need to ditch Melanie? For now, yes. Give her a call and say, "Hey, you didn't intend to hurt Mike but you did. Right now, he needs my support. I'll give you a call this Summer."
Honestly, you can't be anyone's "go to guy" during a breakup. He's got to work through his sadness and anger on his own.
posted by 26.2 at 11:57 AM on March 17, 2008
Honestly, you can't be anyone's "go to guy" during a breakup. He's got to work through his sadness and anger on his own.
posted by 26.2 at 11:57 AM on March 17, 2008
Things will suck for a while between the mutual friends shared between Mike and Melanie. Right now, even though Mike is clearly trying to do what most would consider the mature thing to do, I think you can clearly see that it isn't easy for him.
Do I really have to choose?
Sort of, but it doesn't have to be a permanent choice. I think that regardless of what is right and wrong, think of who is more important to you. If you do what some may call the right thing - being open and honest about your dealings with Melanie and Paul with Mike - and lose Mike's friendship as a result, does it really matter? You'll always be cousins, but what about friends?
Lastly, I can offer my actual experience in this situation. My cousin who is a year younger than me was engaged in his late teens/early 20s to a girl that I was actually pretty good friends with, growing up. I was excited when they got together, very excited when they got engaged, and devastated when they broke up. Fast forward 5 years: I see my cousin every Thanksgiving and every Christmas (at least) and I've never spoken to his former fiancée again. I probably haven't even thought about her in a couple years. I can't imagine having alienated my cousin, even temporarily, to preserve a friendship with someone who, when compared to family, meant little to me.
posted by littlelebowskiurbanachiever at 1:53 PM on March 17, 2008
Do I really have to choose?
Sort of, but it doesn't have to be a permanent choice. I think that regardless of what is right and wrong, think of who is more important to you. If you do what some may call the right thing - being open and honest about your dealings with Melanie and Paul with Mike - and lose Mike's friendship as a result, does it really matter? You'll always be cousins, but what about friends?
Lastly, I can offer my actual experience in this situation. My cousin who is a year younger than me was engaged in his late teens/early 20s to a girl that I was actually pretty good friends with, growing up. I was excited when they got together, very excited when they got engaged, and devastated when they broke up. Fast forward 5 years: I see my cousin every Thanksgiving and every Christmas (at least) and I've never spoken to his former fiancée again. I probably haven't even thought about her in a couple years. I can't imagine having alienated my cousin, even temporarily, to preserve a friendship with someone who, when compared to family, meant little to me.
posted by littlelebowskiurbanachiever at 1:53 PM on March 17, 2008
Of course. Actually throwing in some judgmental comments about her would probably help him.
That wasn't meant to be judgmental, just descriptive. In my experience, which is fairly wide-ranging, women don't usually leave without having someone to go to. YMMV. (I've actually had a woman who was leaving her husband tell me she was "just leaving, there's nobody else" until I pressed and said "Look, I'm your friend, I don't care one way or the other, but come on, you've got a new boyfriend, right?" and she admitted that she did.)
posted by languagehat at 1:58 PM on March 17, 2008
That wasn't meant to be judgmental, just descriptive. In my experience, which is fairly wide-ranging, women don't usually leave without having someone to go to. YMMV. (I've actually had a woman who was leaving her husband tell me she was "just leaving, there's nobody else" until I pressed and said "Look, I'm your friend, I don't care one way or the other, but come on, you've got a new boyfriend, right?" and she admitted that she did.)
posted by languagehat at 1:58 PM on March 17, 2008
To quote Arrested Development, "Family first."
posted by easy_being_green at 2:25 PM on March 17, 2008
posted by easy_being_green at 2:25 PM on March 17, 2008
Ummm, have you explored the idea that Melanie is in love with you and you may be in love with her right back? That whole "he hates me" thing is a pretty big sign to me that she cares about you pretty deeply. I'm a pretty firm believer in that there is no such thing as a purely platonic hetero male/female relationship. Usually one is infatuated sexually with the other and the other is ignorant or in denial of the other's feelings. Don't feel to bad, this kind of thing happens much more often than you think, although it's a bitch to deal with.
posted by any major dude at 8:59 PM on March 17, 2008
posted by any major dude at 8:59 PM on March 17, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also, your standards for whether to be friends with someone should include whether they are good people not just whether they are nice to you or fun to be with. It sounds like maybe Melanie is not a good person.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:07 AM on March 17, 2008