Vietnam Visa Question
March 7, 2008 1:08 AM Subscribe
My friend (an American) has booked a plane out of Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam that would require overstaying his Vietnamese visa by 5 days. Is there any way to extend it with minimal costs? What penalties/fines does he face if he overstays it?
I'd strongly suggest avoiding overstaying the visa. It may not seem like a big deal but being in any country illegally is not something you want to be playing with.
Fortunately it looks like you can get a 30-day renewal while in the country and here's an American company with offices in HCMC that will apparently take care of it.
posted by quiet at 1:35 AM on March 7, 2008
Fortunately it looks like you can get a 30-day renewal while in the country and here's an American company with offices in HCMC that will apparently take care of it.
posted by quiet at 1:35 AM on March 7, 2008
It's possible the immigration office will extend his visa for five days if he asks nicely and shows them his return ticket.
Please advise him not to stay illegally; I ended up in an African jail for two days this way. (They did eventually renew my visa though).
posted by bluenausea at 4:05 AM on March 7, 2008
Please advise him not to stay illegally; I ended up in an African jail for two days this way. (They did eventually renew my visa though).
posted by bluenausea at 4:05 AM on March 7, 2008
I found myself in a similar situation ten years ago, overstaying a Vietnamese visa by nearly two weeks. I simply placed a five dollar bill in my passport before going through immigration. The immigration officer opened my passport in full view of everyone, and the five dollar bill came fluttering down onto the counter. He glared at me and pointed at the money. I shrugged and smiled. He continued to glare as he leafed through my passport. "Big problem," he said. And repeated several times, along with "Very difficult." I kept shrugging and smiling and eventually he wrote "US $30" on a slip of paper and placed it on the counter. I made a big show of going through my wallet , and eventually pulled out another $5 and placed it on the counter. He quickly covered up the $5 with the slip of paper and slip it behind the counter. Finally, he smiled and stamped my passport.
But I recommend that your friend go to the Vietnamese department of immigration office at the corner of Nguyen Du and Cach Mang Thang Tam as soon as possible and ask them what to do. If the language barrier presents a problem, any of the backpacker-centric travel agencies in Pham Ngu Lao will be able to help with an extension cheaply.
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 4:10 AM on March 7, 2008
But I recommend that your friend go to the Vietnamese department of immigration office at the corner of Nguyen Du and Cach Mang Thang Tam as soon as possible and ask them what to do. If the language barrier presents a problem, any of the backpacker-centric travel agencies in Pham Ngu Lao will be able to help with an extension cheaply.
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 4:10 AM on March 7, 2008
Etaoin, you have to go through an immigration station to leave Vietnam? Whoa. (I've only traveled between the U.S., Canada, Mexico, and a few places in Europe, in which this was not necessary.)
posted by XMLicious at 4:15 AM on March 7, 2008
posted by XMLicious at 4:15 AM on March 7, 2008
You've gotta go through immigration to leave most countries in the world. North America and Europe are the exceptions.
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 4:29 AM on March 7, 2008
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 4:29 AM on March 7, 2008
Western Europe, that is...
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 4:31 AM on March 7, 2008
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 4:31 AM on March 7, 2008
You've gotta go through immigration to leave most countries in the world. North America and Europe are the exceptions.
That actually makes me curious - and sorry to threadjack - I know that in the Soviet Union and Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia, and modern China I think, there were internal passport systems and citizens needed authorization even to travel internally within the country. Are there other countries today where this is still the case?
posted by XMLicious at 4:50 AM on March 7, 2008
That actually makes me curious - and sorry to threadjack - I know that in the Soviet Union and Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia, and modern China I think, there were internal passport systems and citizens needed authorization even to travel internally within the country. Are there other countries today where this is still the case?
posted by XMLicious at 4:50 AM on March 7, 2008
The closest thing to internal passports that still exists is the Hokou system used in China, Vietnam, and North Korea. I believe that in China internal migration is still officially restricted, but this is basically ignored nowadays. In Vietnam, the Hộ khẩu determines residency. When my wife became a resident of the US, her name was stricken from the family book. Our daughter was born in Vietnam at the end of last year and we had a hell of a time getting her a birth certificate since neither parent is a resident of Vietnam. My wife still has a valid Vietnamese passport and is still a citizen of Vietnam but no longer a resident. And apparently it is next to impossible to regain residency once removed from the hộ khẩu.
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 5:33 AM on March 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 5:33 AM on March 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Myanmar has checkpoints all over the country. When I was there last year, our passports were held at the border, and we were issued internal travel cards, where all our passages through various checkpoints were documented. In each town where we stayed, our travel cards were kept at the local police station. Here's a picture of it, if you're interested. I don't know if this is done all over the country, or just in the far NE corner of the country, where we were.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:57 AM on March 7, 2008
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:57 AM on March 7, 2008
Is there any way to extend it with minimal costs?
This depends on yours and your friend's definition of 'minimal costs'.
It's not that expensive. I used to get my renewals done by travel agents in Hanoi and it will be the same in HCM. It was like, vaguely remembering a couple of years ago, ~$50 or so for a 3 month visa. If your friend wants it fast it will cost more.
As for penalty, well, let's just say that I don't recall, but if your friend ever wants to return to Vietnam, ensuring a renewal of the visa is an easy step. I can envision worse scenarios than just being fined. Losing the flight, being fined and being held in some facility is not out of the realms of possibility, depending on who you encounter.
Friend: go to travel people, tell them it's bloody urgent. Pay money.
posted by peacay at 6:54 AM on March 7, 2008
This depends on yours and your friend's definition of 'minimal costs'.
It's not that expensive. I used to get my renewals done by travel agents in Hanoi and it will be the same in HCM. It was like, vaguely remembering a couple of years ago, ~$50 or so for a 3 month visa. If your friend wants it fast it will cost more.
As for penalty, well, let's just say that I don't recall, but if your friend ever wants to return to Vietnam, ensuring a renewal of the visa is an easy step. I can envision worse scenarios than just being fined. Losing the flight, being fined and being held in some facility is not out of the realms of possibility, depending on who you encounter.
Friend: go to travel people, tell them it's bloody urgent. Pay money.
posted by peacay at 6:54 AM on March 7, 2008
I found myself with an expired Visa when traveling through Vietnam. We all realized this at the airport as I was leaving.
What happened? I went to an immigration office in the airport and they issued me a new Visa on the spot. I wouldnt recommend this and probably go get a new one issued before you go, but based on my experience, nobody will throw you in jail. They were actually quite friendly about it.
posted by vacapinta at 7:59 AM on March 7, 2008
What happened? I went to an immigration office in the airport and they issued me a new Visa on the spot. I wouldnt recommend this and probably go get a new one issued before you go, but based on my experience, nobody will throw you in jail. They were actually quite friendly about it.
posted by vacapinta at 7:59 AM on March 7, 2008
Are there other countries today where this is still the case?
Russia still has internal passports. I don't know whether movement is restricted for most people, but an ethnic-Armenian family I know (Russian citizens) said that minorities are frequently denied the right to move.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 8:11 AM on March 7, 2008
Russia still has internal passports. I don't know whether movement is restricted for most people, but an ethnic-Armenian family I know (Russian citizens) said that minorities are frequently denied the right to move.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 8:11 AM on March 7, 2008
Don't rely on people being quite friendly or quite easy to bribe. I overstayed my visa by about three weeks once and the guy who stamped my passport when I left just shrugged about it; the second time it was the police when I'd accidentally overstayed five days and they were thrilled to arrest an American and at no time up to and through my trial was I allowed to bribe anybody. You just don't want to get yourself in a situation where you have broken foreign laws -- yeah, they might be indulgent but they don't have to be, and it's really, really not fun when they aren't.
posted by bluenausea at 8:36 AM on March 7, 2008
posted by bluenausea at 8:36 AM on March 7, 2008
I lived in Vietnam as an expat for almost a year.
Here is my advice. First, don't go the shady or illegal route of bribes etc. While it is true that bribes or airport transactions will probably work, if the the official you are dealing with decides they are going to give you a hard time, you are going to be in an impossibly difficult situation. You simply cannot argue with a Vietnamese person, and once one person in the institution has decided you are going to do things by the letter of procedure, expect everyone in the organization to agree.
But there is a really easy and fun workaround here. In HCMC go down and walk around the backpacker district - I can't remember what it is called (I only spent a bit of time there) but most drivers/guys on motorcycles will assume that is where you want to go. There will be smallish tour companies everywhere - find a tour that will take you to the border (this will probably cost a very small amount of money). Leave the country, and come back. Entering Cambodia (I don't know about the other border countries), from what I have heard is not that difficult. Cross into Camboida, tour around a bit and re-enter Vietnam and get the VISAS and permits worked out. This will be a mild hassle, but nothing too serious.
This sounds like a difficult solution, but none of it will be that expensive or troubling. Don't go the illegal route.
posted by Deep Dish at 8:59 AM on March 7, 2008
Here is my advice. First, don't go the shady or illegal route of bribes etc. While it is true that bribes or airport transactions will probably work, if the the official you are dealing with decides they are going to give you a hard time, you are going to be in an impossibly difficult situation. You simply cannot argue with a Vietnamese person, and once one person in the institution has decided you are going to do things by the letter of procedure, expect everyone in the organization to agree.
But there is a really easy and fun workaround here. In HCMC go down and walk around the backpacker district - I can't remember what it is called (I only spent a bit of time there) but most drivers/guys on motorcycles will assume that is where you want to go. There will be smallish tour companies everywhere - find a tour that will take you to the border (this will probably cost a very small amount of money). Leave the country, and come back. Entering Cambodia (I don't know about the other border countries), from what I have heard is not that difficult. Cross into Camboida, tour around a bit and re-enter Vietnam and get the VISAS and permits worked out. This will be a mild hassle, but nothing too serious.
This sounds like a difficult solution, but none of it will be that expensive or troubling. Don't go the illegal route.
posted by Deep Dish at 8:59 AM on March 7, 2008
I'd be cautious- on a different visa-related issue, I was nearly arrested two summers ago. Luckily, they just put me on the next outgoing flight and everything turned out well, but my visa had some "irregularities" with it (I never determined just what they were) and I made the mistake of writing my profession on the customs form because I was going to Vietnam for work, and the Colonel (I think that was his rank- he was the highest ranked of all of the officers in the customs area) made it clear that he thought that I was lying, and if I was lying about that, he couldn't imagine what else I was lying about.
The agent (in front of the officer, who mostly said nothing) questioned me further. This was my first time in Vietnam and I was very nervous. Finally the Colonel dismissively told them to get me out of there and they summoned the agent from Singapore Airlines, on whose flight I'd just come in. I think the airline got in trouble, too, because she looked very upset (they weren't speaking English) but finally escorted me back into the waiting area. She admonished me not to draw attention to myself and left me, coming back after a few minutes to send me into the executive lounge, where again she told me to just sit at the back and be quiet. They put me on the next outbound flight, eight hours later.
So who knows? I think I'll be back, if I ever get the chance again with work. We'll make sure we get a better visa person. But I'd be very cautious about trying to go through customs (either way!) with an expired visa. Who knows, maybe cash would have worked- I didn't even consider it. I thought, if they are considering arresting me for this, if I offer them money it might get much worse. Be cautious, k?
posted by arnicae at 9:25 AM on March 7, 2008
The agent (in front of the officer, who mostly said nothing) questioned me further. This was my first time in Vietnam and I was very nervous. Finally the Colonel dismissively told them to get me out of there and they summoned the agent from Singapore Airlines, on whose flight I'd just come in. I think the airline got in trouble, too, because she looked very upset (they weren't speaking English) but finally escorted me back into the waiting area. She admonished me not to draw attention to myself and left me, coming back after a few minutes to send me into the executive lounge, where again she told me to just sit at the back and be quiet. They put me on the next outbound flight, eight hours later.
So who knows? I think I'll be back, if I ever get the chance again with work. We'll make sure we get a better visa person. But I'd be very cautious about trying to go through customs (either way!) with an expired visa. Who knows, maybe cash would have worked- I didn't even consider it. I thought, if they are considering arresting me for this, if I offer them money it might get much worse. Be cautious, k?
posted by arnicae at 9:25 AM on March 7, 2008
XMLicious's first answer is so completely uninformed that it's at the very least extremely counterproductive and the worst will get the OP's friend in a whole lot of trouble.
As quiet and Deep Dish have alluded to, there are undoubtedly ways to extend your visa. This does NOT involve walking up the police office with a $20 tucked in your passport, but rather asking around the travel agents in western backpacker areas and checking out "visa service" shops advertised in expat mags. I've used these sorts of services in four different Asian countries to take of extending visas.
At the very worst, your friend can take a quick trip to Cambodia or Laos before their visa expires and pop back into Vietnam with a new visa.
posted by alidarbac at 9:59 AM on March 7, 2008
As quiet and Deep Dish have alluded to, there are undoubtedly ways to extend your visa. This does NOT involve walking up the police office with a $20 tucked in your passport, but rather asking around the travel agents in western backpacker areas and checking out "visa service" shops advertised in expat mags. I've used these sorts of services in four different Asian countries to take of extending visas.
At the very worst, your friend can take a quick trip to Cambodia or Laos before their visa expires and pop back into Vietnam with a new visa.
posted by alidarbac at 9:59 AM on March 7, 2008
I did actually specify that I was recommending it as a worst-case scenario. If he were to find himself in violation of Vietnamese law as a foreign national with an expired visa transferring himself to U.S. soil would not be counterproductive.
Can you describe how exactly doing that would get him in trouble, for a U.S. citizen to seek help at a U.S. embassy or consulate, alidarbac? Or are you making a completely uninformed statement? That wouldn't be some clandestine escape from the country - it would be a case of trying to comply with the conditions of your visa.
Not quite in the same category as bribing Vietnamese officials.
posted by XMLicious at 10:10 AM on March 7, 2008
Can you describe how exactly doing that would get him in trouble, for a U.S. citizen to seek help at a U.S. embassy or consulate, alidarbac? Or are you making a completely uninformed statement? That wouldn't be some clandestine escape from the country - it would be a case of trying to comply with the conditions of your visa.
Not quite in the same category as bribing Vietnamese officials.
posted by XMLicious at 10:10 AM on March 7, 2008
Can you describe how exactly doing that would get him in trouble, for a U.S. citizen to seek help at a U.S. embassy or consulate, alidarbac?
What I said was that in a best case scenario, it would be counterproductive and in a worst case scenario, it would land him in legal trouble.
The best case scenario would be that before his visa expires, he heads down to the embassy and chats with some Citizens' Service desk jockey, who will tell him the same exact things that people here are already saying: he should either get his visa extended by going to some immigration bureau or he should change his itinerary so he doesn't overstay (whereby he either reschedules his original flight out or he does a visa run to Cambodia/Laos). Total cost: a waste of an hour or two.
The worst case scenario would be if this OP's friend heard, "Oh some guy on the Internet told me could just show up at the American embassy if I overstay my visa." So he doesn't take care of his visa, just shows up at the airport having overstayed, and they toss him in the clinker for a couple of days (which almost assuredly will not happen. They'd probably just extract a fine from him and perhaps bar him from getting another tourist visa for the next year.)
If he were to find himself in violation of Vietnamese law as a foreign national with an expired visa transferring himself to U.S. soil would not be counterproductive.
Why do you seem to be under the impression that he could just reside in the embassy for several days? If he shows up with an overstayed visa, they'll say, "Here's the address for the Immigration Bureau. It should cost you $XX. Have a nice day."
posted by alidarbac at 10:42 AM on March 7, 2008
What I said was that in a best case scenario, it would be counterproductive and in a worst case scenario, it would land him in legal trouble.
The best case scenario would be that before his visa expires, he heads down to the embassy and chats with some Citizens' Service desk jockey, who will tell him the same exact things that people here are already saying: he should either get his visa extended by going to some immigration bureau or he should change his itinerary so he doesn't overstay (whereby he either reschedules his original flight out or he does a visa run to Cambodia/Laos). Total cost: a waste of an hour or two.
The worst case scenario would be if this OP's friend heard, "Oh some guy on the Internet told me could just show up at the American embassy if I overstay my visa." So he doesn't take care of his visa, just shows up at the airport having overstayed, and they toss him in the clinker for a couple of days (which almost assuredly will not happen. They'd probably just extract a fine from him and perhaps bar him from getting another tourist visa for the next year.)
If he were to find himself in violation of Vietnamese law as a foreign national with an expired visa transferring himself to U.S. soil would not be counterproductive.
Why do you seem to be under the impression that he could just reside in the embassy for several days? If he shows up with an overstayed visa, they'll say, "Here's the address for the Immigration Bureau. It should cost you $XX. Have a nice day."
posted by alidarbac at 10:42 AM on March 7, 2008
I have no experience with this sort of travel nor any knowledge about Vietnamese visas, but it seems to me...
This is the worst way to begin an answer in Ask Metafilter. Agreeing with alidarbac.
posted by vacapinta at 10:50 AM on March 7, 2008
This is the worst way to begin an answer in Ask Metafilter. Agreeing with alidarbac.
posted by vacapinta at 10:50 AM on March 7, 2008
Why do you seem to be under the impression that he could just reside in the embassy for several days?
I'm sorry, you must be new to the internet. See the ";^)" at the end of the sentence mentioning living in the embassy lobby? That's a "smiley" or "emoticon". It conveys humor, or in this case, because it's winking, specifically that the sentence preceding it is a joke. Perhaps indeed to the savvy and perspicacious internet connoisseur, that the entire message in which it appears has some element of jest to it.
Let's assume that this guy has your level of comprehension of stuff written on internet discussion boards and he actually thinks he can live at the U.S. embassy. So he goes to the embassy, walks up to the receptionist's desk, and acts like he's checking into a hotel. Now how might the embassy staff react to this? Much less the occupants of a military base? How exactly does he end up at the airport a few days later trying to make it out of the country with an expired visa?
And anyways, the alternative if he overstays his visa and finds himself in violation of Vietnamese law - the whole worst case scenario thing I mentioned - your alternative to approaching the embassy or consulate would be what? Does it involve more flipping through backpacking magazines and looking at the ads?
Hey, any time you want to admit that you were being an unthinking jerk is fine with me. You might have experience living and traveling in Southeast Asia - information that is quite helpful to the poster for non-worst-case scenarios, information you certainly should contribute - but the know-it-all act is a bit overwrought.
posted by XMLicious at 11:09 AM on March 7, 2008
I'm sorry, you must be new to the internet. See the ";^)" at the end of the sentence mentioning living in the embassy lobby? That's a "smiley" or "emoticon". It conveys humor, or in this case, because it's winking, specifically that the sentence preceding it is a joke. Perhaps indeed to the savvy and perspicacious internet connoisseur, that the entire message in which it appears has some element of jest to it.
Let's assume that this guy has your level of comprehension of stuff written on internet discussion boards and he actually thinks he can live at the U.S. embassy. So he goes to the embassy, walks up to the receptionist's desk, and acts like he's checking into a hotel. Now how might the embassy staff react to this? Much less the occupants of a military base? How exactly does he end up at the airport a few days later trying to make it out of the country with an expired visa?
And anyways, the alternative if he overstays his visa and finds himself in violation of Vietnamese law - the whole worst case scenario thing I mentioned - your alternative to approaching the embassy or consulate would be what? Does it involve more flipping through backpacking magazines and looking at the ads?
Hey, any time you want to admit that you were being an unthinking jerk is fine with me. You might have experience living and traveling in Southeast Asia - information that is quite helpful to the poster for non-worst-case scenarios, information you certainly should contribute - but the know-it-all act is a bit overwrought.
posted by XMLicious at 11:09 AM on March 7, 2008
Mod note: a few comments removed - please take this to metatalk
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:47 AM on March 7, 2008
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:47 AM on March 7, 2008
I've been to the US Consulate in Ho Chi Minh City a bunch of times. The guard at the door asks what your business is before allowing entry. I'm fairly certain that if you were to say that you overstayed your Vietnam visa, he'd say that's not their problem and turn you around. If you somehow talked your way inside and spoke to a consular officer, they would most likely say that it's not their problem and tell you to go to the Vietnam department of immigration.
So, XMLicious's advice is not THAT bad. But it would be much easier just to go straight to the department of immigration (at the corner of Nguyen Du and Cach Mang Thang Tam streets). Just don't threaten to not leave the consulate. You'll probably end up in Guantánamo Bay.
And, yeah, don't try to bribe anyone either.
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 3:50 PM on March 7, 2008
So, XMLicious's advice is not THAT bad. But it would be much easier just to go straight to the department of immigration (at the corner of Nguyen Du and Cach Mang Thang Tam streets). Just don't threaten to not leave the consulate. You'll probably end up in Guantánamo Bay.
And, yeah, don't try to bribe anyone either.
posted by Etaoin Shrdlu at 3:50 PM on March 7, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by XMLicious at 1:17 AM on March 7, 2008