How do you take homoeroticism to the next level?
February 27, 2008 6:18 PM   Subscribe

How do you turn your homoerotic relationship with your best friend into a full-fledged homosexual affair?

I mean, you can’t just go straight to sucking cock …

Especially when, for most intents and purposes, you’re just fine with heterosexual relationships. You’ve been dating women for years, find them charming and attractive, usually more so than you do men, whom occasionally you find strapping, but certainly not strapping enough to ever follow-up on your obvious bisexual tendencies.

I just really like my best friend. He’s the coolest. Problem is, I don’t think he’s quite as gay as myself. The other day, in fact, he said, “I’m not gay.” But this was after his hand lightly grazed my thigh. To be fair, I’ve told him the same. We’re not exactly the most forward of men. Meaning, I can’t just ask, “Are you sure? You sure about that?” Because you know what he’d do? He’d begin rubbing himself in a suggestive manner. To be fair, I’ve done the same and just as suggestively. Everything’s always one big joke. So when he says, “You are one of the comelier men I’ve ever feasted my eyes on,” how can I tell if, at least on some level, he really does think I’m comely?

So then, how do you know if someone is more than a little bit gay for you? I do not want to alienate my friend. I do want to make out with him.
posted by captain nemo the dream squire to Human Relations (32 answers total) 7 users marked this as a favorite
 
huh. i am not a gay man (ianagm?) but it seems like you only have two real options: have a candid conversation, or get roaring drunk and see what happens.
posted by thinkingwoman at 6:23 PM on February 27, 2008


1. Invite your friend over to hang out and talk.
2. Hang out, drinking and talking.
3. ?????????
4. Sex!

My above outlined Plan makes things seem simpler than, of course, they are.... but it's meant sincerely. Obviously I have no idea whether he'd be amenable to making out with you - but for what it's worth, based on your comment, it sounds like he's flirting with you. Flirting != Wanting to Hook Up (*especially* between two straight-identified guys) but it seems like you might have a shot it you follow my plan.
posted by moxiedoll at 6:26 PM on February 27, 2008


Generally speaking I would probably take "I'm not gay" as a pretty good indication that somebody is not, in fact, gay. Are you sure he didn't tell you that because he was getting flirty vibes off you?
posted by Justinian at 6:28 PM on February 27, 2008


I'm sorry, but this is probably going to end in disaster. Ask yourself really seriously how much you value your homoerotic - yet - platonic relationship with your best friend, because it will probably be compromised irretrievably once you try to take it to that next, sexy, level. Try to find a hot male lover in someone else. Friends who can rub themselves suggestively without it meaning anything are hard to find.
posted by lemur at 6:31 PM on February 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


1. Invite your friend over to hang out and talk.
2. Hang out, drinking and talking.
3. ?????????
4. Sex!


5. The oh shit afterparty.

Proceed with caution.
posted by bluenausea at 6:31 PM on February 27, 2008 [3 favorites]


Addendum to My Plan: When I say "drinking", don't go nuts, and if he goes nuts, abort the plan and do not move to step three. You don't want him to feel like you took advantage of him. You don't want to feel like you took advantage of him. You don't want to have, in fact, taken advantage of him. That's not best friend behavior, to put it incredibly mildly.
posted by moxiedoll at 6:33 PM on February 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


Time for the best-female-friend-of-you-both go-between strategy. If you have such a female friend, now is a great time to put her into play. She can have a frank talk with your guy friend: "Seriously, though, would you ever *consider* making out with any guy, maybe the Captain"? I'm not generally pro-drinking, but some kind of inhibition-lowering strategy may be called for.

Note - this will only work with a very, very trusted (by your friend) person, who you know can get beyond the jokiness.

If no such close third friend exists, you'll need another strategy.
posted by amtho at 6:39 PM on February 27, 2008


If you do have a close third friend that is female like Amtho suggests, you could also always try the tactic where she "suggests" a threesome with you and your friend. Good way to get him and her naked and see where things go. He might be more willing to explore his sexuality in a situation with a lady there.
posted by lockle at 7:08 PM on February 27, 2008


Try the tactic where she "suggests" a threesome with you and your friend

As Seen On Y Tu Mama, Tambien.
posted by mynameismandab at 7:45 PM on February 27, 2008


Lockle, you must be friends with some really special ladies (that I would like to meet).

I'm seconding the idea to get a mutual female friend to ask the serious questions.

If that doesn't work, try to set up one of those meaningful self-introspective conversations and then tell him, without indicating him specifically, what you told us in that second paragraph. The one starting with "Especially . . ." Try to have a full robust conversation about it and yourself. Eventually ask him if he's ever felt similarly and reference the pseudo homosexual behavior you've exchanged in the past as your basis for asking. If he has as well, considering admitting to him your thoughts and feelings have included him (however you'll have to critically judge his demeanor in opening up to you). If he sincerely makes it clear that he's never thought the same thing, then sounds like you should move on.

Good luck

(Follow-up?)
posted by JakeLL at 8:22 PM on February 27, 2008


IAAGM

Nemo, telling him how you feel about him will either end AMAZINGLY or horrifically. I have been in similar situations to this and had both endings :(

My advice: don't come on to him. Your sexuality is about you, not one particular person, so don't just blurt out "I'm bi and I love you, dude". Instead get yourself a little drunk (and him a little drunker) and tell him about your new found bi-ness.

He might love it and say "god, thats brilliant. Now lets fuck like bunnies!". Or it might scare him and make him worry that your playful flriting meant more to you than to him. You've got to be prepared for that, I'm afraid.

Best of luck!
posted by alllowercase at 8:41 PM on February 27, 2008 [3 favorites]


Umm, dude?

"You are one of the comelier men I’ve ever feasted my eyes on..."

Not so much part of the standard heterosexual male banter repertoire. Your buddy is either very, very, very in touch with his feelings and unbelievably secure in his masculinity, or at a minimum, bi.

Go for it, says I.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:11 PM on February 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


First of all, thanks for reviving some nostalgic memories that I don't bring down off the shelf and dust very often. Ahhhhhh...

Of course it's worth a shot; only you can tell though, if your friendship would survive your making a pass at him. Most people are pretty forgiving about that sort of thing if they have a good sense of humor and really care about you. I've made passes at many a friend, with mixed results, mostly it's been fine, a little awkward in the short term at the worst. But sexuality is complicated, and people are upredictable. It's possible he'll reject you outright-- but after a few weeks wind up giving in to curiosity. Or it's possible that you will mutually agree not to mention it again. Or that he will only bring it up again to make fun of you. Who knows?

If you're overthinking this and just being chickenshit when you know the worst that could happen is that he mocks you, then just go for it! Embarrassment is hard to stare down, but you've just got to get over that.

If you really feel the need to be cautious though, then how can you go about testing his physical boundaries? Is it through horseplay, wrestling, and joking around? Is it through sincerity or friendly support? ("I know you're not gay or anything but I really needed to feel close to someone tonight and I'm glad you're here.") Does he need to be provoked or dared? He's going to get the signal pretty fast, if he hasn't already. Even if he's interested though, he may hold back until all your cards are on the table. That's just the nature of these things.

Also, you may surprise yourself with how quickly you wind up going straight to sucking cock.

None of this may be that big a help to you, but regardless I totally wish you luck, and feel free to message me if you'dlike to talk (or rehash scandalous details).
posted by hermitosis at 9:20 PM on February 27, 2008


Oh man, this takes me back. I was about 15 when I had an extremely similar hardcore flirty/jokey innuendo-laden friendship with this girl (I am a bi girl, the real kind, not the kiss-girls-in-bars-for-attention kind).

Anyway, one night after we'd finished rehearsal, we were hanging out alone together in a park. The mood was a little calmer than usual, and I gathered up all my courage and said to her, "Hey, listen, you know all this joking we've been doing? It doesn't have to be joking."

And life, for a brief while, was awesome.

However, as much as I loved hanging out with her before that, as friends, she was never my best friend -- that was someone else (someone, by the way, I wasn't attracted to). This girl and I had only met each other about a year earlier. I'd be much more wary of risking a best friendship.

Although this is just my opinion, I'd try to avoid alcohol as much as possible. One or two drinks might loosen him up. More than that might lead to a hookup, but it gives him plausible deniability the next day while he stays as far away from you as possible. In that case, at best you'd wind up with secret, infrequent, guilt-inducing, thoroughly closeted hookups, and you'd probably ruin the friendship in the process.

If you decide to go for it at all, I think a low-key approach -- more or less like mine -- might be the best idea if you want a relationship. If you want a FWB hookup scenario, which is cool if it's what you want, alcohol might play a larger role. Dramatic revelations seem like not such a great idea no matter what you're going for.
posted by booksandlibretti at 9:42 PM on February 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


Not so much part of the standard heterosexual male banter repertoire.

Not saying my friends are standard, but: That's actually pretty par for the course among my straight male friends. They also discuss each other's physical attractiveness, joke about weddings and life partners, and rub all over each other. Several combinations of them have smooched, both drunkenly and soberly. I am extremely certain that serious suggestions of actual sex or romance would be rejected.

On preview, booksandlibretti's advice is very reasonable. Hope everything works out for you, cap'n!
posted by hippugeek at 9:51 PM on February 27, 2008


Boy, that's a tough call. Because some guys have the sort of relationship where things like "you look comely" and thigh-touching are pretty standard things they do, despite being heterosexual. And some guys, those exact same things would be flashing "I like you" signs. You're in the best position to judge that, though your own attraction make cloud your judgment.

FWIW, I do think he's attracted to you but is closeted, maybe even to himself.

Unfortunately, I don't think you can have your cake and eat it, too. My best guess, and this is coming from a straight guy, is that, should you pursue this all the way, he'll be really into you and it'll be awesome and hot.

Until the second after he comes.

Then it's bye bye friendship.

My advice is to just enjoy the friendship for what it is and if you're interested in exploring your sexuality find someone who's out to experiment with. And you'll totally make the out guy's fantasy if you both pretend you're completly straight.
posted by 6550 at 10:37 PM on February 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


"You are one of the comelier men I’ve ever feasted my eyes on..."

Way too corny to be serious, sorry.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 11:02 PM on February 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


This thread pretty much describes what being in the Army was like for me. Lots of suggestive innuendo, but only some of it eventually leading to fellatio. What worked for me was wrestling. It's hard to conceal a boner when you're wrestling. And it's hard not to bump into it accidentally, over and over again.

But then again, I had the advantage of being cooped up with guys who were miles away from any girls. After being in the field for two months, these guys would have humped a pile of warm mud. In your situation, your friend - and you - may find that you lose all interest in each other right after you come, and you'll feel uncomfortable around each other after that. So, I'd second the recommendation that you find someone who's definitely into guys for your first gay experience. Who knows, you might find it's not your cup of tea.
posted by me & my monkey at 11:48 PM on February 27, 2008 [3 favorites]


Are you sure your friend is up for it? As in, has he said as much, and you aren't letting your attraction for him cloud your judgement on the issue? It's easy to let yourself see what you want to see in this kind of situation. I spent nearly a year doing a very similar thing to you, with a "straight" guy I really liked. He would kiss me when he was drunk, touch me, etc. It never came to anything.

Anyway, to answer your question. Have you come out to him as gay/bi? That's the first step. Once you know he's actually OK with that, as opposed to just saying he is, and he's continuing to treat you in the same way (as in grazing your thigh, complimenting you on your looks, etc), then you can move on to some more heavy duty flirting, and see how he copes with that. If he's OK with that, try getting him drunk and kissing him.

I do not want to alienate my friend.

Then you need to tread extremely carefully. If he's straight, then he probably wont like a gay guy passionately kissing him. Straight guys are odd like that. If he's gay, and in the closet, then realise that he's in there for a reason. Your kiss could be the key that opens the gates to a whole new world for him. Or it could be the thing that shoves him back into the closet for the rest of his life because he can't handle it*. And if that happens, alienating him will be the least of your worries, not to mention the bad karma.

Softly softly catch-ee monkey.

*I'm not being melodramatic here. This is exaclt what happened to the "straight" guy I knew.
posted by Solomon at 2:26 AM on February 28, 2008


Big pole-smoking homo here.

This is a Very Bad Idea. I've been in this situation (and seen it a few zillion times), and while sometimes it works out in a fun and/or non-awkward way, the opposite is usually true.

If you want to get your man-lovin freak on, find a man who's actually and openly into man-lovin. It's generally not worth the risk of fucking up a friendship.

And yeah, as hermitosis said... in the gay world, it's astonishing how short the time period between 'make out' and 'suck cock like it's your only source of air' is.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:54 AM on February 28, 2008 [1 favorite]


I just really like my best friend. He’s the coolest. Problem is, I don’t think he’s quite as gay as myself. The other day, in fact, he said, “I’m not gay.” But this was after his hand lightly grazed my thigh. To be fair, I’ve told him the same. We’re not exactly the most forward of men. Meaning, I can’t just ask, “Are you sure? You sure about that?” Because you know what he’d do? He’d begin rubbing himself in a suggestive manner. To be fair, I’ve done the same and just as suggestively. Everything’s always one big joke. So when he says, “You are one of the comelier men I’ve ever feasted my eyes on,” how can I tell if, at least on some level, he really does think I’m comely?

Man, that is super, super gay. And I mean that in the best way - while my friends and I are liberal non-homophobes who are confident and fine in their male hetero-ness, there no way in fucking hell we'd be rubbing thighs and saying "You are one of the comelier men I’ve ever feasted my eyes on." So, maybe it's not all a joke. But Solomon and the others probably have better advice.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 5:03 AM on February 28, 2008


One time one of my friends got drunk and tried to have sex with me.

I would have been totally into it but the fact he/she/it got totally trashed REALLY turned me off.

Just a thought.
posted by shownomercy at 5:04 AM on February 28, 2008


Yeah, max alcohol should be a light buzz, nothing more than that.

And yes, if you go through with this, I'd say 80-90% chance of awkwardness and losing the best friend.
posted by gramcracker at 6:15 AM on February 28, 2008


If you want to get your man-lovin freak on, find a man who's actually and openly into man-lovin. It's generally not worth the risk of fucking up a friendship

And hey, if you do find some other nice boys to make out with, your best friend may realize he's a bit jealous and peek out the closet door himself. (Uh, of course, don't make out with boys solely in hopes of driving your best friend into your arms.)
posted by desuetude at 6:19 AM on February 28, 2008


Response by poster: Alright, it looks like the majority of you think that I should find some other dude as a stand-in, unless, of course, I want to irreparably corrupt a truly epic friendship. Thing is, this is not about experimentation in a general sense, where any cute boy is as good as another.

Though I'm obviously curious about homosexuality, I'm only thinking about my problem in terms of homosexuality to better understand why it's so goddamn hard for two dudes to just do it. But for a more accurate picture of how I feel, you should leave all such labels at the door. This is really just about one person really liking another person for everything that makes him, well, him. So, no. I don't want to get my "man-love" on with any other guy. And because I am so in-like with my friend, I don't want to love no ladies either.

Where all those labels that I've asked you to leave at the door come in handy is in explaining why I, and maybe he, can't get much past innuendo. We're identified as two strait dudes--as bros--by everybody else, but I feel like we're getting beyond that now, or, we should be getting beyond that now. Only, I'm stuck in this homoerotic rut that's both fun and irritating, and depressing, if I think about it for too long.

I want to get out of the rut, but before I risk our friendship, I need to know if he's comfortable with more than just suggestively rubbing himself. So anyone with experience in reading closeted male behavior, please, tell me: What more should I be looking for, here? What's some green light behavior? I'm rarely the aggressor in relationships, so making the first move does not come naturally.
posted by captain nemo the dream squire at 10:39 AM on February 28, 2008


I have guy friends who joke around like this, and they are all extremely straight Christian guys who think it's hilarious because it's so absurd to them. I have other straight guy friends who would never joke like this, probably partly because they're not religious and they know gay people, so it's not so obviously a funny joke. Back when I was still Christian, the girls joked around like this a lot too, and I got myself into a similar situation. I'm sure it never even occurred to her that I might take it seriously, and it would have freaked her out if I had proposed actual non-jokey flirting. Luckily, I moved away and that was the end of that.

Part of the innuendo is the fact that he trusts you enough to joke around with you like that. If he's anything like my friends, coming on to him will break that trust. It could be that what feels to you like a homoerotic rut is his comfort zone in a great friendship.

It's hard to know what to do when you're all twitterpated though. I sympathize.
posted by heatherann at 12:37 PM on February 28, 2008


Best answer: Gay guy here. I'd suggest trying to slowly take humor out of the situation. Come on to him, and when he laughs, laugh too, but keep going, slowly and subtly, hopefully to the point where he can't see it as a joke. Follow his lead, so if he ever pulls away or freaks out, you can stop and revert to using humor as a cover. But if you and he keep going, he'll be partly responsible for the escalation of the situation, so he can't blame it all on you later. But he might anyway. There's an exceedingly high probability of post-messing-around awkwardness, and it could end your friendship, and it could make other people think you're flat-out gay when you're actually not. If you're OK with the chance that the friendship could die, go ahead and try it, it might give you memories to jack off to for years.

Feel free to MeFi mail me if you want.
posted by tepidmonkey at 2:43 PM on February 28, 2008 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: I'd suggest trying to slowly take humor out of the situation. Come on to him, and when he laughs, laugh too, but keep going, slowly and subtly, hopefully to the point where he can't see it as a joke. Follow his lead, so if he ever pulls away or freaks out, you can stop and revert to using humor as a cover.

Hey now. That just might work.
posted by captain nemo the dream squire at 3:07 PM on February 28, 2008


Without trawling the archives, I bet that Savage Love has something to say about this. And if he don't - write in!
posted by criticalbill at 3:10 PM on February 28, 2008


Best thing to do:

Tell your friend you're bi.

Lube him up with some booze first. Don't tell him your feelings for him. Just that you think you find guys to be attractive at times....blah blah blah.

If he wants it, that is all that is necessary. It might not happen right away, but you open the door there. I've found that when you tell your close friends something like that, it often is really emotionally charged, which saps the hotness out anyhow.

Even if he has tendencies toward pole-smokin', he may not be ready. You can't force someone out of the closet--they come out in their time. Guys are guys though, and if he's into you, and you appear to be an easy lay, you'll probably get some.
posted by rocket_johnny at 4:35 PM on February 28, 2008


What's some green light behavior? I'm rarely the aggressor in relationships, so making the first move does not come naturally.

Yeah, rocket_johnny's got it. If you're looking for "green light behavior," telling him you sometimes find guys hot, and would probably consider fooling around with the right guy - no strings attached, of course - is what you need to do. Maybe after you've mentioned it once, find ways to occasionally bring it up again, like "Yeah, that guy over there is ok looking" or something. Don't overdo it, but don't give up after just saying it once, either. People sometimes need a couple of chances before they act.
posted by mediareport at 5:36 AM on February 29, 2008


Look man, you'd find the right time and make your move if this was a girl, right? Well, as a bi guy you have to look at life the way it works for you. If you're like myself, you'll develop deep connections with women and men your whole life. If it also has sexual chemistry you're lucky, you should be willing and confident enough to go for what you want. It could lead to some regret if you don't act. Intelligent people can talk through anything. As long as you stay cool, it'll work out peacefully even if he's ultimately 100% straight. It's an easier life being forthright with people about sexual or romantic feelings..
posted by Leper_Messiah at 11:50 PM on January 12, 2009


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