Does Torchwood get any better?
February 19, 2008 3:40 PM Subscribe
Does Torchwood get any better?
I turned off Torchwood halfway through its fourth episode, "Cyberwoman." I don't mean to offend its fans, and yes, it's all subjective, but by my lights Torchwood featured nothing but bad acting, bad dialog, utterly implausible plotting and so on. I mean, I wasn't expecting The Wire, but...damn!
But as I was scraping it off my Netflix queue, I remembered that a lot of people really like it and wondered if Torchwood was one of those shows that just needed some time to sort itself out. Or should I move on?
I turned off Torchwood halfway through its fourth episode, "Cyberwoman." I don't mean to offend its fans, and yes, it's all subjective, but by my lights Torchwood featured nothing but bad acting, bad dialog, utterly implausible plotting and so on. I mean, I wasn't expecting The Wire, but...damn!
But as I was scraping it off my Netflix queue, I remembered that a lot of people really like it and wondered if Torchwood was one of those shows that just needed some time to sort itself out. Or should I move on?
Do you like Doctor Who? Do you like sci-fi in general? If you don't like either of these, then you'll have a hard time liking Torchwood...
I've heard Torchwood described as "Doctor Who for grown ups" and having watched both, that is exactly what it is! So, you need to have a tolerance for this type of TV show, which requires some major suspension of disbelief on your part!
Having said all that, don't forget that there is only something like 11 - 13 episodes in the first season of Torchwood, so if they haven't caught you by episode 4, then I'm not sure you'll have much more chance to be caught! :)
posted by ranglin at 3:46 PM on February 19, 2008
I've heard Torchwood described as "Doctor Who for grown ups" and having watched both, that is exactly what it is! So, you need to have a tolerance for this type of TV show, which requires some major suspension of disbelief on your part!
Having said all that, don't forget that there is only something like 11 - 13 episodes in the first season of Torchwood, so if they haven't caught you by episode 4, then I'm not sure you'll have much more chance to be caught! :)
posted by ranglin at 3:46 PM on February 19, 2008
Stick with it. "Countrycide" was the episode that made me want to keep watching.
posted by ellenaim at 3:48 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by ellenaim at 3:48 PM on February 19, 2008
No, cyberwoman is one of the better episodes. Personally, I can't stand the 'everybody in torchwood is gay or bi, and someone must demonstrate it at least once an episode, regardless of plot'. It's a bit like someone decided to make an adult Doctor Who, but got a child to add swearing and gratuitous sex in all the wrong places and write the plots. I have nothing against sex onscreen or a good "cocksuckah!" in the right place (see Deadwood!) but Russell T Davies has a lot to answer for.
I've watched the whole of season 1 and season 2 so far, mainly because the other half finds it mildly amusing to watch, and she's working on her understanding of tricky british accents. It has a rare decent moment, but frankly I'm running out of patience for it to improve the utterly woeful and stilted dialog. If you don't enjoy it so far, it doesn't get any better.
Maybe people just like welsh accents.
posted by ArkhanJG at 3:49 PM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've watched the whole of season 1 and season 2 so far, mainly because the other half finds it mildly amusing to watch, and she's working on her understanding of tricky british accents. It has a rare decent moment, but frankly I'm running out of patience for it to improve the utterly woeful and stilted dialog. If you don't enjoy it so far, it doesn't get any better.
Maybe people just like welsh accents.
posted by ArkhanJG at 3:49 PM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm a Doctor Who nut and I really don't think much of Torchwood. My retired parents love it, but I think it goes nowhere, fast. I tried to keep watching but had to give up.
posted by blue_beetle at 3:49 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by blue_beetle at 3:49 PM on February 19, 2008
It's pretty terrible. Season two seems a little less terrible, but makes up for it by being boring.
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:51 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:51 PM on February 19, 2008
on postview: I'll 2nd contrycide as one of the least worst episodes though.
posted by ArkhanJG at 3:51 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by ArkhanJG at 3:51 PM on February 19, 2008
I gave up after "Random Shoes". Actually "Cyberwoman" was the only episode that did anything for me.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 4:07 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 4:07 PM on February 19, 2008
Best answer: A large part of liking Torchwood comes from the understanding that it's a bad show, which is exactly what makes it good. Or something. I like the cornyness.
posted by pete0r at 4:17 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by pete0r at 4:17 PM on February 19, 2008
Well, it does get better-but that doesn't mean that it's any good.. The characters will continue to do things that make no sense and Jack will continue to be the worst boss ever, but there are times when it is less horrible than it is in cyberwoman.
posted by dinty_moore at 4:18 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by dinty_moore at 4:18 PM on February 19, 2008
Captain Jack "dying" every other episode gets rather tiring as well.
posted by reynaert at 4:20 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by reynaert at 4:20 PM on February 19, 2008
If you don't like it so far I don't think you'll like the rest of it. The show gets better than "Cyberwoman", and there are even some good episodes, but I also gave up on it.
posted by Gary at 4:26 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by Gary at 4:26 PM on February 19, 2008
As a Doctor Who fan I hated Cyberwoman and all that it stood for. Worst episode of the series so far!
I do enjoy Torchwood, though. But more in a fun something-to-do sort of way, not in an "oh god, what happens next!" way.
posted by Kellydamnit at 4:30 PM on February 19, 2008
I do enjoy Torchwood, though. But more in a fun something-to-do sort of way, not in an "oh god, what happens next!" way.
posted by Kellydamnit at 4:30 PM on February 19, 2008
Best answer: Good lord no. Every episode is, in my mind, uniformly horrible. John Barrowman can't act without shouting, and when he's shouting, he sounds like a buffoon. I think the rest of the cast leaves a bit to be desired, too, but they are generally less out there than Barrowman (and Eve Myles is cute). The plots are OK (Countrycide was pretty good), and the effects are definitely adequate, all things considered. Dialog is bad.
That said, I really enjoy it. I've professed my fondness for Blake's 7 here on MeFi in the past, and I think they're comparable. I think Blake's 7 had some good writing, but it certainly had the worst effects in the history of eyes, and some pretty bad acting. Paul Darrow (Avon) definitely came from the same yelling based school of acting as Barrowman.
If you can just go with it, you may like it. But if you're one of those snooty types who likes good acting, good scripts and good special effects in a TV show, then I dare say Torchwood may not be for you.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 4:30 PM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
That said, I really enjoy it. I've professed my fondness for Blake's 7 here on MeFi in the past, and I think they're comparable. I think Blake's 7 had some good writing, but it certainly had the worst effects in the history of eyes, and some pretty bad acting. Paul Darrow (Avon) definitely came from the same yelling based school of acting as Barrowman.
If you can just go with it, you may like it. But if you're one of those snooty types who likes good acting, good scripts and good special effects in a TV show, then I dare say Torchwood may not be for you.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 4:30 PM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
I really liked Captain Jack on Doctor Who, but it's just not the same character on Torchwood.
posted by thilmony at 4:51 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by thilmony at 4:51 PM on February 19, 2008
+1 to "watch for something to do" rather than "watch because I want to know what happens next"
Better than Whatever Idol, or The Biggest Loser though ;-)
posted by singingfish at 5:02 PM on February 19, 2008
Better than Whatever Idol, or The Biggest Loser though ;-)
posted by singingfish at 5:02 PM on February 19, 2008
I don't like it all that much, and thought Cyberwoman was the weakest episode of season 1.
The good thing about the series is that everybody in torchwood is gay or bi, and someone must demonstrate it at least once an episode, regardless of plot; like in every single other tv-series they are all hetero and are proving it just as often, only hetero watchers won't notice because they think it's normal.
posted by kolophon at 5:08 PM on February 19, 2008 [5 favorites]
The good thing about the series is that everybody in torchwood is gay or bi, and someone must demonstrate it at least once an episode, regardless of plot; like in every single other tv-series they are all hetero and are proving it just as often, only hetero watchers won't notice because they think it's normal.
posted by kolophon at 5:08 PM on February 19, 2008 [5 favorites]
"Out of Time" and "Captain Jack Harkness" were the only two episodes of series one that I thought were in any way redeemable (not coincidentally, they were both written by the same person, Catherine Tregenna). "They Keep Killing Susie" was alright, but most of the time I felt like I was imagining better plots for the decent actors (Indira Varma, Louise Delamere, John-Barrowman-as-Captain-Jack-on-Doctor-Who) than the writers were actually providing. Consider skipping ahead.
Also: WORD, kolophon.
posted by bcwinters at 5:30 PM on February 19, 2008
Also: WORD, kolophon.
posted by bcwinters at 5:30 PM on February 19, 2008
I keep watching it for the bisexuality. But perhaps I am just a prudish american titillated by that sort of thing.
posted by ch1x0r at 5:34 PM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ch1x0r at 5:34 PM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
It's had good episodes that were as good as good Doctor Who. I think the lows are lower though, and the highers aren't as high, so it's not on my priority list to watch.
(I don't particularly think Doctor Who is uniformly great either. It's just got occasional flashes of brilliance.)
posted by smackfu at 5:55 PM on February 19, 2008
(I don't particularly think Doctor Who is uniformly great either. It's just got occasional flashes of brilliance.)
posted by smackfu at 5:55 PM on February 19, 2008
Catherine Tregenna's episodes uniformly blow me away with how amazing they are. Other than that...it's got good episodes and bad ones. And the bad ones are at least cheesily bad, and you can have a campy great time with them, if you think of them that way.
posted by kalimac at 5:59 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by kalimac at 5:59 PM on February 19, 2008
Cyberwoman is terrible. The man pain, it is awful. I dont know that it gets better so much as at least I sort of grew to love the characters, even with so-so acting. It's a universe thing. If you're into Doctor Who (9 and 10/Eccleston and Tenant) then I think it is sort of a "companion piece."
Then again, I love all kinds of awful movies just because they are fun, not because they have some sort of merit other than that, YMMV.
posted by Medieval Maven at 6:23 PM on February 19, 2008
Then again, I love all kinds of awful movies just because they are fun, not because they have some sort of merit other than that, YMMV.
posted by Medieval Maven at 6:23 PM on February 19, 2008
My wife's first episode was "Countrycide." I had to keep telling her: it's not always like this! It was pretty freaky and violent and utterly unlike most television, and, frankly the rest of the series.
So my answer is: No, it doesn't get too much better, but it doesn't get much worse. We just watched the "Meat" episode and both had dreams about it, which says something for its ability to drop little idea bombs in your brain. Very tiny bombs, but still.
I should also say: we stopped watching Dr. Who but continued with Torchwood. We think it's a better show. The episode "Adam," for example, gave us hope that maybe we'd start seeing some Torchwood folks from other eras--and maybe have plots completely in those eras similar to the first Dr. Who episode that launched Torchwood.
posted by Mo Nickels at 6:32 PM on February 19, 2008
So my answer is: No, it doesn't get too much better, but it doesn't get much worse. We just watched the "Meat" episode and both had dreams about it, which says something for its ability to drop little idea bombs in your brain. Very tiny bombs, but still.
I should also say: we stopped watching Dr. Who but continued with Torchwood. We think it's a better show. The episode "Adam," for example, gave us hope that maybe we'd start seeing some Torchwood folks from other eras--and maybe have plots completely in those eras similar to the first Dr. Who episode that launched Torchwood.
posted by Mo Nickels at 6:32 PM on February 19, 2008
No, it doesn't. At least with Doctor Who you stand a chance that an unpopular companion will get killed off or "decide to stay with the lepers on Baroxide Six" or an annoying Doctor will, after a few seasons, be replaced with a good one. But Torchwood? No.
I hope I am someday proved wrong. I'll probably keep downloading an honorary episode a season just to make sure. Captain Jack does his thing best when he's with the Doc, and I think even that ship has run her course, sadly.
And poor Doctor Who. Man, everything after Rose left has just been utter dreck.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:11 PM on February 19, 2008
I hope I am someday proved wrong. I'll probably keep downloading an honorary episode a season just to make sure. Captain Jack does his thing best when he's with the Doc, and I think even that ship has run her course, sadly.
And poor Doctor Who. Man, everything after Rose left has just been utter dreck.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:11 PM on February 19, 2008
I laughed out loud when I read this question. Ha! You know, Torchwood is just Torchwood. There are episodes that are so awful that I can't believe I'm wasting DVR space, but I can't seem to stop watching it. There was a recent episode where Captain Jack was contemplating an alien arm-sword thing, and good god, I thought he was going to start making out with it! Having said that, I do think it has a compelling central plot, and the episodes after Cyberwoman get interesting. And if you've any Buffy love in your past, James Martsers shows up in the second season.
posted by kittyloop at 7:22 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by kittyloop at 7:22 PM on February 19, 2008
Not really. The problem with Torchwood is that it has so much potential to be better - then wastes it. There's some good basic ideas there, so you want it to be like a Silent Witness or Spooks with aliens - then it turns out to be like a Reg Hollis focussed episode of The Bill, except with unlikeable people doing things totally out of character. And by next week, the characters have been reset to some random default state.
The best S1 Torchwood episode was the one with the people coming back through the Rift. Apart from Owen's shuddering ... ugh, <shiver>
Having said that, the second series does get a bit better.
Primeval, ITV's "monster-of-the-week" competitor, is surprisingly a much better show. S1 easily manages to beat Torchwood S1 despite easy storylines, dodgy CGI, and heavy lashings of knickers. And S2 still beats Torchwood S2 - there's an actual developing storyline, including characters you care about, going on there.
Hell, The Sarah Jane Adventures turned out to be a better, more adult (where adult means "thought provoking, with characters you care about, in interesting storylines") series than any of them.
posted by Pinback at 7:56 PM on February 19, 2008
The best S1 Torchwood episode was the one with the people coming back through the Rift. Apart from Owen's shuddering ... ugh, <shiver>
Having said that, the second series does get a bit better.
Primeval, ITV's "monster-of-the-week" competitor, is surprisingly a much better show. S1 easily manages to beat Torchwood S1 despite easy storylines, dodgy CGI, and heavy lashings of knickers. And S2 still beats Torchwood S2 - there's an actual developing storyline, including characters you care about, going on there.
Hell, The Sarah Jane Adventures turned out to be a better, more adult (where adult means "thought provoking, with characters you care about, in interesting storylines") series than any of them.
posted by Pinback at 7:56 PM on February 19, 2008
Yes. It does. But not much. By the end of the First Season, it's almost up to the standard of the STTNG Season 2.
It gets a bit better in Season 2, but Russell T Davies is ruining the best thing about the last season of Dr Who (Martha Jones) by dragging her into this crap.
That said. It has John Barrowman in it. Even though he's a bit older, I still would.
posted by tonylord at 8:03 PM on February 19, 2008
It gets a bit better in Season 2, but Russell T Davies is ruining the best thing about the last season of Dr Who (Martha Jones) by dragging her into this crap.
That said. It has John Barrowman in it. Even though he's a bit older, I still would.
posted by tonylord at 8:03 PM on February 19, 2008
(And I'll pile on with the Countrycide hate - I kept expecting it to end up in Hilary Briss' shop, or Papa Lazarou to turn up with some pegs...)
posted by Pinback at 8:11 PM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Pinback at 8:11 PM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm in the same boat as you - struggled through "Cyberwoman", past "Countrycide", and then one or two more after that and I just couldn't take it any more. Pacing was slow, characters seemed flat and cliched, and the plots wavered between meh and "OK, I see." Heard how great the new season was and Metacritic reported a pretty high average score so I thought this was a sure thing. Disappointed.
posted by junesix at 8:27 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by junesix at 8:27 PM on February 19, 2008
And poor Doctor Who. Man, everything after Rose left has just been utter dreck.
Did you see Blink? That one gave me nightmares.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:32 PM on February 19, 2008
Did you see Blink? That one gave me nightmares.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:32 PM on February 19, 2008
I'm a big Who fan who quit watching after the second episode, only to feel forced to watch them all anyway when Martha Jones was slated to join in season two. I've still only watched all of season one.
The good news is, yes, it does get better. The last half of the season has some really strong episodes by comparison. "Small Worlds" was the first one that really grabbed me, with deliberate evocation of the Cottingley Fairies. Treating them as, well, real was inspired and quite British -- it felt like an homage to a lot of 19th century fantasy writing. "Countrycide" was really solid and straightforward horror. (And there's a tractor in it, that when I saw it, I was reminded of Chekov's admonition that if you see a gun on the mantlepiece in Act 1, it had better be used by Act 3. And they took his advice.) "They Keep Killing Suzie" was good in that they explored a lot of stuff implicated by the pilot and did it with some character development. "Random Shoes" was possibly the best episode of the series, or at least the one I could like the best. That may have something to do with the reduced presence of the main cast (obviously it was a show chosen to fill out scheduling gaps, as with Trek's "bottle" shows or Who's "Blink" and "Love & Monsters"). "Out of Time" was much better than a certain Trek handling of the exact same concept, although it ended up a bit unfinished. "Combat" was a semi-interesting take on "Fight Club" + sewer-monsters. The finale two-parter was pretty good in the time travel parts, not so much in the The Creature that Ate Cardiff parts.
The main problem I have with the show is the writers' crutch of having one of the characters violate a Major Professional Rule practically every show. This is supposed to demonstrate that they are imperfect and flawed. In fact, it demonstrates that they are stupid. Dumb writers! Time and again our, uh, heroes put each other (the only friends they seem to have in the world) at risk for the sake of keeping a secret or trying out the alien tech. You'd think they would learn, but no, they in fact one-up each other on this score. I hate this device so much that whenever it happens I seriously consider eating off my arm (so I can, um, change the channel on the remote, or something).
The Gwen character is such a Mary Sue. Why couldn't they make her a real police liaison considering that Torchwood is known to the police? Instead of all this dumb sneaking around (and hacking and shit)? That would at least show some adults seem to actually be in charge (in-universe). They could have plenty of dramatic tension based on how much she's able to tell her former colleagues regardless, because obviously Torchwood is not everything it seems.
Captain Jack is -- in Torchwood -- another bafflement. He's great as a foil for the Doctor, but here he's just an ass. He needs his own foil, and all of his crew are -- at least in season one -- too callow and shallow to provide it. You get the idea that Gwen would like to be one, and the writers want her to have that audience stand-in role, but she really hasn't succeeded. Hell, she can't even maturely foil Owen, and he's a nincompoop by comparison. (I maintain that Star Trek: The Next Generation got miles better once they introduced the Borg, as a kind of parody of the Federation concept, and Voyager similarly when Seven of Nine became a foil for Janeway. They need to discover this trick.)
That they manage to craft interesting and watchable sf television despite this predilection is a puzzle, but welcome, considering.
Interestingly, I'm with Pinback: The Sarah Jane Adventures, perhaps because it was deliberately and unabashedly aimed at a juvenile audience, seemed to have miles more confidence about its aims and ends right from the start. Ripping fun, even if I mainly watch it for, well, Sarah Jane.
posted by dhartung at 11:23 PM on February 19, 2008
The good news is, yes, it does get better. The last half of the season has some really strong episodes by comparison. "Small Worlds" was the first one that really grabbed me, with deliberate evocation of the Cottingley Fairies. Treating them as, well, real was inspired and quite British -- it felt like an homage to a lot of 19th century fantasy writing. "Countrycide" was really solid and straightforward horror. (And there's a tractor in it, that when I saw it, I was reminded of Chekov's admonition that if you see a gun on the mantlepiece in Act 1, it had better be used by Act 3. And they took his advice.) "They Keep Killing Suzie" was good in that they explored a lot of stuff implicated by the pilot and did it with some character development. "Random Shoes" was possibly the best episode of the series, or at least the one I could like the best. That may have something to do with the reduced presence of the main cast (obviously it was a show chosen to fill out scheduling gaps, as with Trek's "bottle" shows or Who's "Blink" and "Love & Monsters"). "Out of Time" was much better than a certain Trek handling of the exact same concept, although it ended up a bit unfinished. "Combat" was a semi-interesting take on "Fight Club" + sewer-monsters. The finale two-parter was pretty good in the time travel parts, not so much in the The Creature that Ate Cardiff parts.
The main problem I have with the show is the writers' crutch of having one of the characters violate a Major Professional Rule practically every show. This is supposed to demonstrate that they are imperfect and flawed. In fact, it demonstrates that they are stupid. Dumb writers! Time and again our, uh, heroes put each other (the only friends they seem to have in the world) at risk for the sake of keeping a secret or trying out the alien tech. You'd think they would learn, but no, they in fact one-up each other on this score. I hate this device so much that whenever it happens I seriously consider eating off my arm (so I can, um, change the channel on the remote, or something).
The Gwen character is such a Mary Sue. Why couldn't they make her a real police liaison considering that Torchwood is known to the police? Instead of all this dumb sneaking around (and hacking and shit)? That would at least show some adults seem to actually be in charge (in-universe). They could have plenty of dramatic tension based on how much she's able to tell her former colleagues regardless, because obviously Torchwood is not everything it seems.
Captain Jack is -- in Torchwood -- another bafflement. He's great as a foil for the Doctor, but here he's just an ass. He needs his own foil, and all of his crew are -- at least in season one -- too callow and shallow to provide it. You get the idea that Gwen would like to be one, and the writers want her to have that audience stand-in role, but she really hasn't succeeded. Hell, she can't even maturely foil Owen, and he's a nincompoop by comparison. (I maintain that Star Trek: The Next Generation got miles better once they introduced the Borg, as a kind of parody of the Federation concept, and Voyager similarly when Seven of Nine became a foil for Janeway. They need to discover this trick.)
That they manage to craft interesting and watchable sf television despite this predilection is a puzzle, but welcome, considering.
Interestingly, I'm with Pinback: The Sarah Jane Adventures, perhaps because it was deliberately and unabashedly aimed at a juvenile audience, seemed to have miles more confidence about its aims and ends right from the start. Ripping fun, even if I mainly watch it for, well, Sarah Jane.
posted by dhartung at 11:23 PM on February 19, 2008
kolophon - I should point out, its not the bisexual nature of the flirting I find irritating, it's the 'I'm making a point here dammit' nature of it. Now that you mention it, the sub plot between Gwen and Owen is just as unbelievable, bad and irritating. Talk about lack of chemistry.
I also agree that unecessary sex subplots between heteros in many mainstream shows is annoying.
Finally, what dhartung just said!
posted by ArkhanJG at 11:59 PM on February 19, 2008
I also agree that unecessary sex subplots between heteros in many mainstream shows is annoying.
Finally, what dhartung just said!
posted by ArkhanJG at 11:59 PM on February 19, 2008
I'd give up on the first series and go straight for the second. You won't be missing out on any important plot points. I hated - HATED - half the first series, with the exception of Small Worlds, which was genuinely a bit creepy (although the slightly dodgy CG monsters didn't help) and Out of Time, which was a bit overdone but still watchable. Cyberwoman was just laughably bad. But the second series, I think, is a lot better. Slightly more self-aware, better written, more character development, less gratuitous sex scenes and pointless swearing written in for the sake of it. It's still got the ridiculous elements but there was an episode a few weeks back (the one with the WWI soldier) which I think was up there with a good Doctor Who episode. There's also less of Captain Jack being all emo because he can't die, which is a relief.
There is still the problem, however, that once you have decided it's a bit like Scooby Doo (big van, chasing ghosts) you can no longer take it seriously and start looking for other similarities. If it weren't for you pesky kids!
posted by terrynutkins at 1:45 AM on February 20, 2008
There is still the problem, however, that once you have decided it's a bit like Scooby Doo (big van, chasing ghosts) you can no longer take it seriously and start looking for other similarities. If it weren't for you pesky kids!
posted by terrynutkins at 1:45 AM on February 20, 2008
In my opinion, it doesn't get better, only worse. I'm giving the second season a miss.
posted by grouse at 1:46 AM on February 20, 2008
posted by grouse at 1:46 AM on February 20, 2008
Maybe it's the Welsh accents, but there's a pathetic "I'm the only gay in the village" vibe to the whole thing that gets really, really tiresome. Why have in-depth character development when you can have:
[a character] "I'm bi, and I fancy you."
[everybody else] "Me too."
[all] "Look, a man in an unconvincing rubber suit."
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:10 AM on February 20, 2008
[a character] "I'm bi, and I fancy you."
[everybody else] "Me too."
[all] "Look, a man in an unconvincing rubber suit."
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:10 AM on February 20, 2008
I've heard Torchwood described as "Doctor Who for grown ups" and having watched both, that is exactly what it is!
Conversely, I've heard Torchwood described as a kids show, if you added gratuitous sex and violence. No one expects a deep and meaningful show or tour-de-force acting, but Torchwood has the constant vibe of being half-finished: character motivations are thin and don't make sense, plots wander off and peter out, actors mug for the camera, plot developments are forgotten by the next episode ... It has the whiff of badly-written Doctor Who slash-fiction. It isn't bad, but Lord - it isn't good.
It's tempting to think that Torchwood is just a front for the real organisation, which is deeply secret, mysterious and efficient and still occupying a bunker in Canary Wharf. "Torchwood? Aye, they were wiped out years ago. Except for those tossers in Cardiff, and they couldn't find their way out of a paper bag."
posted by outlier at 2:17 AM on February 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
Conversely, I've heard Torchwood described as a kids show, if you added gratuitous sex and violence. No one expects a deep and meaningful show or tour-de-force acting, but Torchwood has the constant vibe of being half-finished: character motivations are thin and don't make sense, plots wander off and peter out, actors mug for the camera, plot developments are forgotten by the next episode ... It has the whiff of badly-written Doctor Who slash-fiction. It isn't bad, but Lord - it isn't good.
It's tempting to think that Torchwood is just a front for the real organisation, which is deeply secret, mysterious and efficient and still occupying a bunker in Canary Wharf. "Torchwood? Aye, they were wiped out years ago. Except for those tossers in Cardiff, and they couldn't find their way out of a paper bag."
posted by outlier at 2:17 AM on February 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
For me the problem is that Russell T Davies hasn't written anything worthwhile since Queer As Folk, and he writes much of Torchwood and none of Sarah Jane. The 'flashes of brilliance' in Doctor Who that someone refers to above are the episodes written by Steven Moffatt - and the stupider episodes are usually those penned by RTD.
posted by goo at 2:35 AM on February 20, 2008
posted by goo at 2:35 AM on February 20, 2008
Primeval, ITV's "monster-of-the-week" competitor, is surprisingly a much better show.
No way. What a turd! The two lead men stand around in artfully faded jeans and artfully arranged bedhead hairdos and go, "Doy! Duh! Da!" Some of the stupidest portrayals of supposedly smart people I've ever seen. You're spot on about the knickers, though. My wife and I call it the Panties Rule: the first episode of the first season of any new show must have a woman in her underthings, a small swimsuit, or with some other near-nudity.
Also, to the person who praised Martha Jones: she's dead weight. She's too game. It's like the actress, realizing this is a good career move for her, is letting her "oh my god I'm going to be a star!" thoughts leak into her character.
posted by Mo Nickels at 5:27 AM on February 20, 2008
No way. What a turd! The two lead men stand around in artfully faded jeans and artfully arranged bedhead hairdos and go, "Doy! Duh! Da!" Some of the stupidest portrayals of supposedly smart people I've ever seen. You're spot on about the knickers, though. My wife and I call it the Panties Rule: the first episode of the first season of any new show must have a woman in her underthings, a small swimsuit, or with some other near-nudity.
Also, to the person who praised Martha Jones: she's dead weight. She's too game. It's like the actress, realizing this is a good career move for her, is letting her "oh my god I'm going to be a star!" thoughts leak into her character.
posted by Mo Nickels at 5:27 AM on February 20, 2008
Torchwood (and indeed Doctor Who) is about as sci-fi as Teletubbies. I'd call it sci-farce -- you don't watch it because it has cool ideas or interesting speculation on the intersection between science/futur/alternate reality/etc and people, you watch it because it's so completely awful, but (sometimes) in a somehow entertaining way.
I do really wish our license fees were going towards proper sci-fi too, though. I guess all the people who are actually any good at it are too busy writing books.
posted by Freaky at 8:40 AM on February 20, 2008
I do really wish our license fees were going towards proper sci-fi too, though. I guess all the people who are actually any good at it are too busy writing books.
posted by Freaky at 8:40 AM on February 20, 2008
The first series of Primeval was excellent no-nonsense Saturday-evening adventure stuff, so much that I picked up the DVD just to see one episode that I'd missed on broadcast. The first four episodes of the second series were a considerable disappointment, with exactly the sort of nonsense that Mo Nickels describes above, but last week's was a blinder--the sort of TV that has you on the edge of the sofa, wishing it won't end--and it looks like the series finale is going to be just as much fun.
But yeah, Torchwood is unrelenting bilge.
Not quite the same field but not a million miles off either: BBC1's The Last Enemy is quality stuff too.
posted by Hogshead at 10:43 AM on February 20, 2008
But yeah, Torchwood is unrelenting bilge.
Not quite the same field but not a million miles off either: BBC1's The Last Enemy is quality stuff too.
posted by Hogshead at 10:43 AM on February 20, 2008
If you're looking for "serious" science fiction, then no, it doesn't get better.
If, like me, you enjoy a sci-fi romp with several photogenic people, then yes, it does. I like my sci-fi with a bit of fun and sexual wisecrackery. I've never been a serious sf nut.
Apparently people are either going to enjoy it, or hate it and call it things like "unrelenting bilge," I gather it depends on what you like in science fiction in the first place.
And for what it's worth, Martha Jones irritated the crap out of me. I hope she's much less hung up on OMG TWOO WUV AND TIME TWAVEL! in the fourth season of Doctor Who.
posted by angeline at 10:13 PM on February 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
If, like me, you enjoy a sci-fi romp with several photogenic people, then yes, it does. I like my sci-fi with a bit of fun and sexual wisecrackery. I've never been a serious sf nut.
Apparently people are either going to enjoy it, or hate it and call it things like "unrelenting bilge," I gather it depends on what you like in science fiction in the first place.
And for what it's worth, Martha Jones irritated the crap out of me. I hope she's much less hung up on OMG TWOO WUV AND TIME TWAVEL! in the fourth season of Doctor Who.
posted by angeline at 10:13 PM on February 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
Martha Jones irritated the crap out of me. I hope she's much less hung up on OMG TWOO WUV AND TIME TWAVEL! in the fourth season of Doctor Who.
She will be, because she's only going to be in a couple of episodes. We are going to be stuck with the oh-so-annoying Catherine Tate (from "The Runaway Bride" Christmas special) instead. Ugh. Thanks a lot, haters; be careful what you wish for.
posted by grouse at 1:11 AM on February 21, 2008
She will be, because she's only going to be in a couple of episodes. We are going to be stuck with the oh-so-annoying Catherine Tate (from "The Runaway Bride" Christmas special) instead. Ugh. Thanks a lot, haters; be careful what you wish for.
posted by grouse at 1:11 AM on February 21, 2008
I love Torchwood. It's cheesy and hell and all the better for it. They latch on to a crazy idea and just go for it, without any hint of self-consciousness. Giant demons over Cardiff? YES. But if you're not someone who appreciates a robotic woman battling a pterodactyl, well, it's probably not for you.
posted by you're a kitty! at 11:14 AM on May 6, 2008
posted by you're a kitty! at 11:14 AM on May 6, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Lokheed at 3:44 PM on February 19, 2008